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Indonesia in oxygen emergency as Delta variant wreaks global havoc

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There is now a Lambda variant, with probable origin in Peru. Samples are now being found in many European countries.

Only 24 letters in the Greek alphabet, but the WHO seem to have skipped over some of them.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

World health experts are concerned a new variant of the coronavirus could be resistant to vaccines.

The Lambda variant, formally known as C.37, was first reported in Peru, and accounts for more than 80 per cent of the nation's cases.

It has been detected in at least 26 countries, including the UK, the Independent reports.

https://www.9news.com.au/world/lambda-covid19-variant-what-is-it-how-contagious-everything-to-know-explainer/55109718-0d84-42f1-8a6c-864959cec69d

1 ( +3 / -2 )

1000 dead, around a dozen of whom were fully vaccinated suggests that the vaccines can reduce the mortality by around 98%. That takes Covid down to flu levels. Flu doesn't merit a lockdown or the rest of the pandemic restrictions. But like flu, you should try and avoid it. Behave sensibly and keep wearing your mask.

It is better not to have Covid, even if you are vaccinated, but the British government is following the science. If vaccines didn't make a difference to the death toll, there wouldn't have been any point in deploying them. As they do, we can alter our response accordingly.

As long as vulnerable people and those who work with them have been vaccinated, we can change our approach to Covid.

The vaccines work, and they work on the Delta variant too. All of them, including Astra Zeneca. None stop you getting it, but all of them suppress transmission, reduce the symptoms and limit the severity, reducing deaths.

There are risks - new variants come from surges. But lockdowns kill too. The UK is now the crash test dummy. If cases spike but deaths do not, other nations can follow this path.

But it is absolutely essential that vulnerable people - the old, those with pre-existing conditions, and those who work with them - are fully vaccinated. So vaccinate them first, as quickly as possible.

There is no hiding from Covid, especially the Delta variant. Either Covid will work its way through the readily available pool of hosts and go, or reduced transmission from very high rates of vaccination may prematurely end it. So get your jabs, as soon as you can, keep your mask on, behave sensibly, and when the vaccinations levels are high enough, get on with life.

Any nation that has AZ that it is too picky to use, or any vaccine going out of date, get it to countries that are being hard hit, like Indonesia.

Medical workers really are in the front line, with increased exposure. Their death rates are likely to be higher than the general population. Any nations with spare PPE can assist by donating this too.

The media love to sensationalise scary stuff with 'what ifs'. This is not the time for that. Folk have suffered enough.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

It’s difficult to know how transmissible and lethal the lambda variant is due to Peru’s relatively dilapidated health care system and economic isolation. But one thing is for sure, If it can become the dominant variant, it will do so.

I fear that sooner or later, the anti-vaccine “freedumb” crowd is going to me a mutant factory for a variant that can reliably break through our existing vaccines.

I hope Indonesia isn’t giving us a preview of the 2021 Hunger Games (difference being we are the tributes), but I’m not optimistic

1 ( +5 / -4 )

In the meantime Japan happens to luck out and Japan is immune to coronavirus despite the rush hour crowded trains.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Vaccines are seen as the main hope of breaking a cycle of economy-busting lockdowns in a pandemic that has killed close to four million people, according to an AFP compilation of official data.

Lives would be saved if they simply gave out Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroqine tabs. India is using them and deaths have plummeted.

-11 ( +5 / -16 )

""Nearly 1,000 Indonesian medical workers have died of COVID-19, including more than a dozen who were already fully inoculated""

Including more than a DOZEN who were fully inoculated??? Does Mr. Suga know this?? is this for real or a typo?

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Lives would be saved if they simply gave out Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroqine tabs. India is using them and deaths have plummeted.

There is no data to support this. Look at Peru, they used Ivermectin and their cases increased rapidly.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Perfect time for Olympic Games to celebrate "human victory over the coronavirus".

/s

10 ( +12 / -2 )

1000 dead, around a dozen of whom were fully vaccinated suggests that the vaccines can reduce the mortality by around 98%.

Without a full understanding of who's been infected you can't draw this conclusion unfortunately. What if it was only those 12 people who'd been vaccinated but 2000 people who hadn't been had also been infected with the coronavirus? A contrived example but beware decontextualised statistics....

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

What's amazing is that even with fewer restrictions and vaccines Japan isn't being ravaged by 'the Delta variant'...

Science requires testing your hypotheses so when predictions are wrong you should take notice. No bodies in the street, makes you think

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

Bob- India’s cases plummeted once the Health Ministry approved use of Ivermectin and Hydroxy.

-13 ( +3 / -16 )

Bob- India’s cases plummeted once the Health Ministry approved use of Ivermectin and Hydroxy.

Let me guess, you read that in a social media post that has since been widely discredited. Or do you have a link to any, you know, evidence and stuff?

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And at this time when COVID is resurging and people are dying, Japan has to hold Olympics!!!! It's crazy!!!

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Bob- India’s cases plummeted once the Health Ministry approved use of Ivermectin and Hydroxy.

Let me guess, you read that in a social media post that has since been widely discredited. Or do you have a link to any, you know, evidence and stuff?

Lot's of evidence supports the effectiveness of a number of early treatments, including ivermectin. This recent presentation does a good job going over the data:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6CA3q0qZdU&t=982s

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

Bob- OK, what’s your explanation for India’s COVID reversal? Herd immunity?

And what’s your source of information? Google? That’s as good as fake news if looking for political information, which COVID is.

Look this up- India Bar Association sued WHO for providing false information about the effectiveness of Ivermectin and Hydroxy. WHO is promoting Big Pharma. WHO’s actions caused many in India to cease relying on Ivermectin and Hydroxy, costing 1,000’s of lives.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

> Bob- OK, what’s your explanation for India’s COVID reversal? Herd immunity?

Where’s your evidence that it was due to Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine?

This myth has been debunked again and again. There is NO evidence.

But I guess that’s the conspiracy isn’t it? Every doctor and researcher in India and around the world is being silenced by “Big Pharma”, and the WHO, a conspiracy involving millions of people. But somehow YOU know the truth.

Conspiracies about Google don’t cut the mustard.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Indonesia just authorized the use of ivermectin for the treatment of covid19. I am looking forward to seeing the results of that.

There are many studies that have shown its effectiveness in different parts of the world, where they distributed large amounts of ivermectin to their population in some cities or regions and observed large and rapid decreases in cases while neighboring regions did not.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

I think Indonesia should also hand out vitamin D supplements (without gelatin), this is especially important for Indonesia since most women (Muslim) have extremely low sun exposure.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Indonesia just authorized the use of ivermectin for the treatment of covid19. I am looking forward to seeing the results of that.

The results from Brazil, according to the local experts, are the opposite of what terribly preliminary studies misrepresent, your reference could not even prove that the people in regions without "distribution" did not have access to the drug (that is widely available and used in general in all the country) nor that the people that were treated actually had less deaths, on the other hand it was proved that people that followed the treatment were more likely to be infected that those that did not. Something that the article you bring tries very hard to hide because the authors can't discuss it properly.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

This has always been the big danger of letting the virus spread uncontrolled - the mass of people infected simultaneously could exceed the capacity of hospitals and healthcare workers to treat all the cases who need to be hospitalized

Dunno why there's people who'd let the virus spread, especially uncontrolled - once ya let it out, ya don't know how it's going to go

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@rawbeer

This recent presentation does a good job going over the data:

Aaaaaand predictably it's by a physician from the AAPS camp.

Of course, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons is intended to sound like an august body of qualified experts, and blends in nicely with the names of legitimate societies for medical professionals.

What it actually is (and there's a minor clue in the word order "Association of American" rather than "American Association of") is the Qanon wing of the American medical profession. No one takes them seriously as an actual professional association, only as a fringe group and an affront to science.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Dunno why there's people who'd let the virus spread, especially uncontrolled -

Are there such people? Where?

Dunno why there's people who would not treat infected people with old safe drugs that have been proven to reduce hospitalization and death.

The results from Brazil, according to the local experts, are the opposite of what terribly preliminary studies misrepresent, your reference could not even prove that the people in regions without "distribution" did not have access to the drug

Do you have a reference for that?

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

German Chancellor Angela Merkel last week told British Prime Minister Boris Johnson that he was risking too much by permitting so many fans.

Interesting statement by Merkel, who risked so much by allowing a flood of immigrants into Germany and the EU.

What is her stance on the Olympics? She had a chance to talk directly with Suga recently.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Do you have a reference for that?

Did you understand the comment? this is a heavy limitation from your reference, where they just assumed regions without one specific kind of distribution had not access to the drugs, something that is not valid and has to be proved with evidence that they did not present. The reference would be obviously the same.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Dunno why there's people who'd let the virus spread, especially uncontrolled

Are there such people? Where?

Those who'd just let the virus take its natural course to herd immunity (that's the very definition of uncontrolled)

Forgetting that the 1918 Spanish Flu took its natural course to herd immunity - to the tune of 50 million deaths

(Why want a repeat of that?)

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Those who'd just let the virus take its natural course to herd immunity (that's the very definition of uncontrolled)

If we take some precautions and immediately treat infected people with safe and effective drugs, we can greatly reduce deaths and eventually achieve herd immunity without resorting to these risky investigational vaccines. Save those vax for the vulnerable people who want to take the risk....

Forgetting that the 1918 Spanish Flu took its natural course to herd immunity - to the tune of 50 million deaths

Exactly! They did not have any effective drugs back then. Today, we have a number of safe and effective drugs, but they have been forbidden because we had to resort to vaccination as the only solution.

1000 dead, around a dozen of whom were fully vaccinated suggests that the vaccines can reduce the mortality by around 98%.

Ouch!!! That hurts!!! That's not quite the way it works. Just imagine if nobody was vaccinated, then you would end up saying: "1000 dead, none of whom were fully vaccinated suggests that the vaccines can reduce the mortality by around 100%"!!!!!!

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

If we take some precautions and immediately treat infected people with safe and effective drugs, we can greatly reduce deaths and eventually achieve herd immunity without resorting to these risky investigational vaccines. Save those vax for the vulnerable people who want to take the risk

Health care professionals around the world coincide in the opposite from your recommendation, that only increases unnecessarily the risk because of irrational fears to imaginary dangers from the vaccine, specially when talking about drugs that have demonstrated to be useless against the disease.

It is simply much less risky to vaccinate than getting infected, no matter what treatment is done.

Exactly! They did not have any effective drugs back then. Today, we have a number of safe and effective drugs, but they have been forbidden because we had to resort to vaccination as the only solution.

That is still false, again easily proved by the recognition of dexamethasone that prove that safe, effective and cheap drugs can be accepted without any problem, but only as long as they have the scientific data to prove it, exactly the opposite from HCQ.

Ouch!!! That hurts!!! That's not quite the way it works.

It is still much closer to the real numbers than the failed article that was recently put here only to be retracted because of the huge problems of misrepresentation.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

It is simply much less risky to vaccinate than getting infected, no matter what treatment is done.

Not if you are young and healthy, no matter how badly you want to sell your investigational vaccines.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Not if you are young and healthy, no matter how badly you want to sell your investigational vaccines.

Yes it still does, the amount of people with demonstrated risks because of the vaccines is still a tiny fraction of the people that died even when being young and healthy. You have never been able to prove otherwise.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

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