Investigators find black boxes after deadly Washington plane crash, continue search for answers

aviation charts show the maximum altitude for helicopters on that published route is 200’.

the midair happened at about 300’.

the blackhawk acknowledged visual with the crj and requested a visual deviation, meaning it would be responsible for avoiding the crj without atc involvement.

tower said to pass behind it, but it ran into it.

if the crew was wearing night vision goggles, some peripheral vision is lost and your head has to be on a swivel. it’s not known if they were wearing them.

two undistracted crew members looking out from the cockpit of the blackhawk should have avoided this collision.

Air traffic control recordings appear to capture the final attempted communications with the helicopter, call sign PAT25, before it collided with the jet.

PAT means Priority Air Transport.

Makes one wonder just who or what was on that helicopter:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14343039/black-hawk-helicopter-call-sign-dc-plane-crash.html

Radio communications showed that air traffic controllers alerted the helicopter about the approaching jet and ordered it to change course.

Sounds like ATC were aware of the situation and alerted the helicopter crew to avoid the jet. Seems like the crew on the copter were not working well together and helping to alert each other of the danger and thus could not avoid the crash in time.

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said the helicopter was flown by a "fairly experienced crew" of three soldiers who were wearing night-vision goggles on an annual training flight.

Well, they may have been experienced and highly skilled individually, but if they didn't have a lot of experience working together as a crew, alerting each other of the situation, then it doesn't do them any good how much flight experience they have.

Whatever the cause for this tragedy was... I am pretty sure DEI is not the cause.

Misscommunication, fault to acknowledge callings and alerts, malfuction of the Helicopter.

I woul not consider much, plane's malfunctions (althouhg it could have happened), given that the plane was on a landing approach; and between a passenger plane and a military helicopter the later is far maneuverabie.

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said the helicopter was flown by a "fairly experienced crew" of three soldiers who were wearing night-vision goggles on an annual training flight.

This is the key sentence. They have named two of the crew, but for some reason not the third. Note the adverb. He didn't say 'very or highly' etc.

DefSec and his boss know all this and more.

"The male instructor pilot had more than 1,000 hours of flight time, the female pilot who was commanding the flight at the time had more than 500 hours of flight time, and the crew chief was also said to have hundreds of hours of flight time."

Billions for Ukraine but not enough staff in the control tower.

Air traffic control staff need a lot of training and capacitation to be called so.

Considering that the job by it self is highly strassful and airtraffic controlers "serving life" is relatevely short and that since COVID a lot of airtraffic controlers lost their positions and many didn't come back (because of stress and health conditions).

You need 3 to 5 years of training to become an AC.... Covid ended 2021... we are 2025...

The more I read about this and see the video of it, the more it sounds as if the helicopter pilot got confused as to which airplane to watch out for; the one that had just landed and the one coming in (which they hit) for a landing. Confusion can lead to accidents.

Allot of answers given by Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth as he addressed the American people following the deadly collision, saying the crash happened while the Black Hawk was on an annual proficiency training flight and allot more. And a very experienced crew equipped with night vision goggles.

Good to see Pete just pick up this awful tragedy and manage and run with it, as well guide the

way with the investigation on this congested air space and overburdened runway.

So very sad.

I feel for six of them killed from Boston figure skaing club. As I am from Boston and know this club very well.

Terrible loss of life and should have never happened. Hits close to home for me and to the heart.

Such a loss for Bean town.

Deo GratiasToday  02:05 pm JST

Air traffic control recordings appear to capture the final attempted communications with the helicopter, call sign PAT25, before it collided with the jet.

PAT means Priority Air Transport.

Makes one wonder just who or what was on that helicopter:

it was a training flight and those are "gold top" helicopters used for vip transport.

Hudson's hero pilot, Captain Sully, gave his opinion, saying that landing over water at night can be confusing, as the lights are reflected in the water.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u_-2U_F_yY

This is the key sentence. They have named two of the crew, but for some reason not the third. Note the adverb. He didn't say 'very or highly' etc.

Standard practice is to never name the deceased to the press before the next of kin have been informed by a special team with the grim task of telling the family their loved one died in an aviation mishap. You never want a family to find out a family member died by hearing the name in the news or reading it somewhere first.

The instructor pilot had about 1,000 hours, which is about what I had after five years of flying with the Navy, the pilot renewing their night qual had about 500 hours, not a newby but still learning.

Whatever the cause for this tragedy was... I am pretty sure DEI is not the cause.

Misscommunication, fault to acknowledge callings and alerts, malfuction of the Helicopter.

The FAA is understaffed. The tower should have had a dedicated controller for the helicopter traffic and another for inbound aircraft at that time of night. That night one person was filling both roles. The helicopters and inbound fixed wing aircraft use different frequencies and do not talk to one another. They rely on the tower controllers to keep them straight.

Air Traffic Controllers are required to retire at age 56. The FAA has had a tough time filling vacancies and has experienced years of reduced budgets. Equipment is old and the money to replace it isn't there. It hasn't been a Congressional priority.

Ronald Reagan fired 11,000 controllers back in the 1980s and the system has literally never fully recovered from that event. Pay fell, workloads increased to the point where controllers work six ten hour days typically. Burn out is high. Lots of controllers quit and the job is hard to fill.

I couldn’t agree more to this comment.

The FAA is understaffed. The tower should have had a dedicated controller for the helicopter traffic and another for inbound aircraft at that time of night. 

So right. Especially for such a tight airspace. More eyes needed on radar and air traffic screens. Really good point. Resonating and gleaming point actually. I really want answers too this point. Let it come to light.

None of this tragedy should be political at all. Shame on the media. Families need time to grieve and put loved ones to rest. It’s a horrific accident and blame/fault/cause will and can come later. As it always does.

Since the 1960s the number of flights has increased and the accident rate decreased. The country never recovered from Reagan firing 11,000 air controllers and then the more recent COVID-19.

If the helicopter is at fault, which seems to be the case, will the military be held responsible for compensation or the crew directly or the US government?

Not even an investigation and you are already posting about compensation.

@Mr Kipling

If the helicopter is at fault, which seems to be the case, will the military be held responsible for compensation or the crew directly or the US government?

Ultimately the US government will be on the hook. The way it will probably unfold is American Airlines' insurers will start making payments to the families almost immediately and eventually reach a settlement in exchange for subrogation rights, which then allows the insurer to sue the Department of Defense (or whichever department owned the helicopter) to recover their claims loses. The pilots wouldn't be personally responsible since they're acting within the scope of their employment for the military, even if their actions were negligent.

Not even an investigation and you are already posting about compensation.

I think it's a fair question. People want to know just in case it happens to them or their families.

Back on topic for a moment, I doubt that the black boxes from the airliner will tell them anything, apart from a sudden and catastrophic blind-siding.

These Blackhawk helicopters can be remotely controlled from 300 miles away as demonstrated at an Association of US Army symposium.

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/news/features/2024/command-an-autonomous-black-hawk-helicopter-from-300-miles-away.html

flight tracking also shows the blackhawk was not only above the maximum altitude, it was west of the approved corridor. that would place it closer to the airport. landing aircraft would be further in their descent. if it was inside the corridor, landing aircraft would be higher with more vertical separation.

so two deviations, altitude and flight path contributed.

the aircraft commander listed was the 500 hr pilot. she was flying since the radio calls were done by the instructor. the pilot monitoring (the instructor in the right seat in this case) handles communications.

Also there was a very similar near miss there, just one day before this accident.

Best conjecture / analysis

https://youtu.be/hfgllf1L9_4?si=_KlyermTrB3GxtPi

Washington DC plane crash live: preliminary report into disaster will be prepared within 30 days, say investigators

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2025/jan/31/washington-dc-plane-crash-live-flight-data-and-cockpit-voice-recorders-recovered-officials-say

Important news for the relatives, also to quell speculation into how and why this tragedy took place.

the only person still not identified to the public and listed from both aircraft is the blackhawk pilot flying at the time of the midair.

why is that? i think the army is gearing up for possible backlash and danger to the family if she was a woman of color, or trans. we'll find out.

the flight path deviation and altitude has been know. hegseth just straight up lied about not knowing.

A lot of speculation but in the end Mr Trump will tell us the truth, because he always tells the truth and as he has said many times he knows better than most experts.

So all this speculation is sort of pointless as we should just wait until Mr Trump lets us know what really happened.

From watching the video, the chopper and the plane never saw each other.

The disaster occurred in an instant. Still . . . it has to be investigated.

What would be more revealing is whether anyone on the plane happened to be on a cell phone just prior to the collision. The passengers on the plane probably had a better view of what was going on outside of the plane than the pilot.