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© Copyright 2020 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.Iran downed Ukrainian jetliner, U.S., Canadian officials say
By LOLITA C BALDOR and ZEKE MILLER WASHINGTON©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.
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ClippetyClop
...Here are the Kremlin's other previous scattergun attempts to explain the disaster
It was shot down by a Ukranian fighter jet. That then became two fighters.
It was shot down by a missile intended for Vlad's private jet
It was a CIA-Dutch op, where a plane was filled with dead bodies and then shot down (an actual plot from BBC's Sherlock)
But as we know, these are meant for domestic Asakaze consumption only
ClippetyClop
Which is why they are a part of the JIT team and proposed the tribunal. Why did Russia veto it? Why is Russia refusing to allow people to testify or be interviewed?
You have proof of this 'aim'? Whenever Putin ends up with a smoking gun in his hand (which is increasingly often), it's natural for him to blame everyone else and not co-operate.
They haven't "lost all interest", the investigation continues and the trial starts in March with or without the dodgy Russian ghost fighter jets or serial number con jobs. Honestly, you expect them to believe any evidence Russia offers after the fake intel they have tried to supply so far? You had your chance, you lied, you blew it.
“Fifteen out of 16 airlines in the Association of Asia Pacific Airlines fly this route over Ukraine,” Malaysia’s transport minister Liow Tiong Lai said Friday. “European airlines also use the same route, and traverse the same air space.”
Eurocontrol are are responsible for this in European airspace, not Ukraine. I guess they didn't expect incompetent Russians to shoot civilians out of the air at 33,000ft
Asakaze
Malaysia wants to find the truth, and here is the fundamental difference in aproach, because the aim of the "investigation team" from the very beginning was just to prosecute Russia. When the Russians said they were ready to testify and bring their evidence and specialist, the "investigators" quickly lost all interest. They intended to stage one-sided show, but when they saw that Russians were ready to bring their radio intercepts and witnesses, the plan fizzled.
Geez, the "investigators" still unable to give intelligible answers to simple questions, like why Malaysian daily flights from Amsterdam in July 2014 with every day were sent closer and closer to the battlezone, why the Ukrainian neonazi regime did not close the airspace over the battlezone altogether as all normal countries should have done? And where disappeared the Ukrainian air traffic controller who on the day of the tragedy directed MH17 exactly over the battlefield?
ClippetyClop
Who's talking about a Bellingcat investigation? JIT was a Dutch led team of over 200 people and four other nations (including Malaysia) who have (amongst other mountains of evidence) phone calls, witnesses and video evidence of the launcher being brought over the border from Russia and sent back the following day after the crash (with a missile missing)
So why did Malaysia propose a tribunal be set up to prosecute the Russian suspects named in the JIT investigation (Russia vetoed it)? I think you mean that Malaysia's bent PM does not, but his prosecutors office certainly does.
Isn't Russia still blaming this on the Ukranian 'ghost' fighter jet that that they faked into the area? Probably got the 'evidence' from Call of Duty again.
Asakaze
LOL!!! Yes, The Great Investigation Hoax, supported only by a bunch of Western countries, fabricated by Bellingcat - a murky organization, led by a nobody, a guy who for years did nothing but played videogames. "Investigation" that ignored basic facts, such as that the missile of the serial number used in the shooting since the collapse of the USSR (drum roll) was in the armoury of the Ukrainian Army. No wonder the Malaysian government does not recognize the findings of these fraudsters (so much for "supported by everybody").
ClippetyClop
Lol, Of course it was, of course it was. Except that the investigating JIT team says it was shot down by a Russian missile, by a Russian brigade based in Kursk, has proof of this due to the (once again) comically bad Russian operatives, has charged three Russian GRU & FSB agents of the crime, and is supported by everyone except (drum roll) Russia.
But I'm sure you have a few more video game screenshots that you can try to pass off as evidence.
Asakaze
@Sh1mon M4sada
What are you talking about? Russians did not kill these people. Malaysian jet was shot down by Ukrainian regime forces. What happenet to this plane is unclear.
By the way, if you think that American, French, Israeli or any other missiles do something different, get real.
Chip Star
You’re talking about the “but for” cause. In doing so, you’re intentionally, and arbitrarily, putting the line of causation after Donny killed the general. That’s as intellectually dishonest as it gets.
Chip Star
okay, but this is irrelevant to you only trusting our intelligence agencies when they support your outlook.
Remember when immigration was the manufactured crisis before Iran became the manufactured crisis? I do.
Remember when fiscal responsibility was the manufactured crisis of the right? I do.
How many irrelevant responses or responses that fail the logic test will I get?
Sh1mon M4sada
I'm struggling to picture someone, anyone who says this ^ with a straight face.
459 innocent lives...well if the Russian setout to needlessly destroys innocent lives then they have 'technically' succeeded.
Asakaze
@Sh1mon M4sada
How for an Iranian missile (if there was one) the Ukrainian plane could be "friend"? For all Iranian missiles only Iranian planes should be considered by IFF systems as "friends".
The same goes for MH17. Ukrainian Army Buk's IFF did not mark the Malaysian jet as "friend". Technically it worked properly.
Fair enough. My hunch is that we have "Ukrainian jet" redux. In 2014 it was a massive propaganda onslaught "Putin did it" in order to put pressure on Russia to cave in to Western demands. Now the information campaign against Iran, with the same playbook.
Sh1mon M4sada
Seems curious to me that of the two 'recent' events relating to missiles strikes on civillian aircraft involve Russian technology relating to IFF.
I agree, lets wait for the investigation, but this is a forum, and I'm just posting 'my' hunch.
Sh1mon M4sada
I never said 'dumb', how did you arrive at that? I said accurate, in terms of identifying the threat.
Have read of this, how I inrerpret it is Russian system couldn't correctly identify MH17, and the BUK system was supposedly state of the art.
http://www.whathappenedtoflightmh17.com/buk-crew-had-very-limited-information-about-the-target/
lostrune2
There's a video that supposedly showed the moment the plane caught fire (wonder if it's a security camera facing that direction since it's strange somebody would just be randomly recording an airplane takeoff):
https://abcn.ws/2Nb6nA4
The impact does look like it was hit with something that's going the opposite way. Sudden fatality maybe why there was no mayday call from the pilots (they were already dead or incapacitated)
It's also strange that the crash scene was cleared too quickly of debris, before more investigators could take a look or two. Unless the crash scene needed to be cleared of debris for some other use, there's really no need to be in a hurry to clear the debris so soon.
Let's see them release the black box and see what it decrypts
Asakaze
@Sh1mon M4sada
There is no such thing as “dumb” or “clever” missiles, there are dumb and clever people who launch the missiles. Russian-made missiles are no more “inaccurate” then Western-made, it depends on who and how uses them. USS Vincennes was a state-of-the-art warship when it shot down an Iranian jetliner.
Could Iranians shot down this Ukrainian plane? In principle yes. I’ve read several books on the Iran-Iraq war of 1980-88, and the friendly fire was a serious issue, Iran then lost quite a number of planes due to it. But here are two observations:
It’s better to crank down the media noise and calmly wait for results of the investigation. The situation in the region is tense enough.
nandakandamanda
Rumours that Iran is bulldozing the crash site before the NTSB team arrives seem to be an exaggeration. Photos of a front loader carrying larger aircraft parts to a collection point may have been mistaken for a bulldozer.
bass4funk
Those people would have been alive if Solimani wouldn’t have tried to plan the assassination of Americans.
u_s__reamer
How many Iranians is Soleimani responsible for killing now?
What came first the chicken or the egg? Trump's murder of Soleimani was bound to have a ripple effect of negative consequences. This is just the nature of reality that too many people cannot admit 'cos you can get scared when it gets too real!
ulysses
It does, but yet, we probably had 2 missile hits on this aircraft.
Could be anything, system malfunction(IFF not responding) or human error.
And as I said investigation will reveal the cause sooner or later.
stormcrow
"I guess the Iranians will be asking questions about this equipment they bought off the Russians."
Yeah, like how to use it properly. The weapons are working properly, it's the people using them who aren't thinking properly. And, in turn, the people who are selling the weapons to them aren't thinking properly either.
The Russians, and the U.S. as well, should not be supplying these yo-yo countries with these dangerous weapons to begin with. At least, before closing the deal, teach them how to identify something correctly before they aim and fire off a deadly missile.
Blacklabel
but in an actual direct correlation they would be alive if an Iranian missile had not exploded their plane. So lets good with that as the root cause.
SuperLib
Those people would be alive if Trump hadn't assassinated the Iranian general.
Lil Pappy
The Iranians speak the truth! Being tracked by an anti aircraft missile would certainly qualify as a "Sudden Emergency"
mrtinjp
How many Iranians is Soleimani responsible for killing now? 32 squashed during his funeral march and 82 more, now we just need to count all those killed by the terrorist organization he helped too
Well Soleimani with the help of Russians was responsible for eliminating ISIS..and was aligning Iraq closer to Iran, think he was probably eliminated for the later.
bass4funk
Oh, now you don’t want to believe the intel?
He had another crazy liberal on again?
Love Tucker, but even every now and then, he can be wrong as well.
lincolnman
Oh my - this coming from the poster that for the last three years has said our intel community is nothing but the "Deep State" and in collusion with Obama, Hillary, Nancy, and Chuck? Talk about a flip-flop and hyper-partisan spin... I guess you haven't watched Tucker Carlson lately...
“Seems like about 20 minutes ago, we were denouncing these people as the ‘deep state’ and pledging never to trust them again without verification,” Carlson told viewers, eyebrow arched. “Now, for some reason, we do trust them — implicitly and completely.”
It's spelled H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y...
nandakandamanda
I guess the Iranians will be asking questions about this equipment that they bought off the Russians.
PTownsend
For me nothing Trump says can be believed because he's lied and flip-flopped so many times. Aren't you going to wait until the Kremlin issues its report before deciding what happened?
bass4funk
No, I just don’t trust the liberals that think they know more than the intelligence agency or want to put their hyper-partisan spin on it.
Dumb and irresponsible, the Iranians know that there are still domestic going in and out of that country and even if these defense missiles were set to automatic they should to other precautions knowing that their commercial fleet was still operational, dumb!
nandakandamanda
NB explosions = explosion.
nandakandamanda
A heat-seeker into the engine will cause an initial engine explosions and fire.... then both explanations suddenly make sense.
Kaerimashita
The truth will out eventually. In the meantime we can all get more and more strident about our own pet theories based on our own peculiar prejudices.
Blacklabel
“Video appears to show missile strike as Canada and UK say they have intel Iran shot down Ukrainian plane”
now will liberals admit what we were originally told by the Trump administration is correct?
Chip Star
You also don’t trust our intelligence agencies unless their assessments back up your hyperpartisanship:
>
Chip Star
And we’ll know about Building 7!
Speed
I hate when ordinary citizens are murdered like this.
Madden
Great attack there Iran, killed more of your own citizens than the enemy!
PTownsend
But you'll continue to parrot their partner Russia's reports. SMH
Kaerimashita
As someone tried to say yesterday, this is indeed all DT's fault. I like how DT offers his opinion and numerous pposters on here rail at being told by DT to accept it as fact. Trudeau's statement seems far more assertive as to the Iranians having shot the plane down.....
Sh1mon M4sada
which is what I also wrote
non response or incorrect response/transmit is assumed foe.
it's a Being 737, the FAA makes IFF mandatory.
bass4funk
And it’s even worse when it comes to believing the msm.
I would never, ever trust anything that comes out of the mouths of the Mullahs, let’s just get that out of the way. But as we are speaking, more evidence from the Pentagon and CIA are showing that the Iranians did indeed and tragically and mistakenly, even accidentally shot this plane down.
Sh1mon M4sada
No. As I understand it, eg the Turkish buying Russian S400. The Turkish is providing the encryption IFF portion of the system to pair with the Russian radar. The Russian don't have it on their own.
Serrano
If there is evidence, share it!
Yeah! Can you get the Iranians to share the black box info? That would help clarify things.
A lot of Iranians must be suspecting that the government screwed up and shot it down. This is not gonna make the government any more popular.
non party
The lefts wants to blame all the actions of Iran to Trump. If Iran leader Qumeni farts then left would say trump is responsible for that. Such a shame..
SuperLib
Welcome to the club, Iran. It's not a fun one to be in.
ulysses
IFF can only identify as a friend, not as a foe. So a non-response is assumed as a foe.
I don't think you can assume anything without having insight into allied and Iranian systems. There's little doubt Iran bought down this plane, but whether it was system error or human error , we'll find out only once an investigation is complete.
MSR Japan
MSR JapanJan. 8 02:51 pm JST
Stray Iranian missile ? About as much possibilty as the other silly suggestions of possible causes !
-3( +3 / -6 )
As above it was called at the time.
Now to the ones thinking its just trump saying it was iranian missile, really are you that blinded by your hatred?
Its all over the news, there is also video if the two missiles been launched with their coordinates also disclosed go read some other news https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12299310 these people have info too. Even trueadeu is saying he has intelligence its iran.
Sh1mon M4sada
To be fair...all else being equal, it's most likely a technical deficiency of the targeting system in identifying friend or foe, and given the heightened alert in the region, the operator would most likely be assuming foe more than friend.
Sh1mon M4sada
They know whether a target is friendly or not per the IFF spec. They may not know a foe, or a friend that doesn't comply with IFF spec. I would assume this plane transmitted the correct IFF signal (so that allied systems can tell it's friendly).
Yes, but I'm referring to Russian radar capable of correctly operating to IFF spec. There are reports the hybrid Turkish/Russian system (part of planned purchase S400) due to be deployed meets NATO IFF spec and that Turkey is testing it on its fleet of F16s.
plasticmonkey
Iran mistakenly shot this plane down. However, this wouldn't have happened in the first place if Donny XIV hadn't inflamed tensions with Iran for his own benefit.
RIP to all the innocent victims of this idiotic conflict.
FizzBit
I’ll wait for Air Disasters on the Smithsonian Channel. By then, maybe everyone will stop lying.
PTownsend
One of the worst things about the Trump post-truth era is the fact that little if anything Trump says can be believed. I think many Trump backers (US and 'foreign') will wait to hear what the Kremlin (Iran's partner) says, and then believe that. Just like they continue to believe the Kremlin's reports saying Russia doesn't meddle in US politics.
Lizz
What 'Missiles for Dummies' missed out is that missiles just know targets, not whether they are military or civilians.
Are they at war ? Maybe just not shooting in the direction of an airport would be a start.
stormcrow
Another surface-to-air Russian made missile and a downed commercial airliner.
Should we blame Tehran or Moscow for this?
theFu
How many Iranians is Soleimani responsible for killing now? 32 squashed during his funeral march and 82 more, now we just need to count all those killed by the terrorist organization he helped too.
ulysses
What 'Missiles for Dummies' missed out is that missiles just know targets, not whether they are military or civilians. It finally comes down to the accuracy and intelligence .
It was too much of a coincidence for it not to be an Iranian missile that took down the aircraft. Innocent lives lost in senseless violence.
ebisen
An idiotic omission in this article is the war crime committed by US when they downed the Iran Air Flight 655 in 1988. Iran also has a grim history with forged civilian airliners.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
Random
Iran says a sudden emergency struck the plane. ‘Sudden emergency’ must be their euphemism for missile.
No Business
Did anyone with a brain seriously believe it was "engine trouble"?!
CrazyJoe
Occam's Razor would suggest that if it was hit by a missile that it was due to an error made by Iran's air defense.
That would be embarrassing enough to encourage at least some attempts to cover it up.
bass4funk
Hmmm....I think personally it’s very hard to believe it was a coincidence that this plan envisions just fell out of the sky, it’s possible, but I just don’t believe it given the events that happened on that day. I think it was hit by an Iranian missile and I think that will ultimately come out as such, the parallels just seem to close. I’m pretty sure it’s all going to come out very soon.
PTownsend
It looks like another ugly fog of war event. RIP to all the innocent lives lost.
Tacit admission: see below:
Will Iran do likewise?
Yrral
US shot down an Iranian plane in the 80s,if they did and it was an accident, they should admit it, like the US did not
Sh1mon M4sada
That's not it works.
My money on the Russian and Iranian is that they just want to know 'how did the Ukrainian know what they know'.
Russian missiles whilst deadly, are notorious for mistaking civilian for military targets. This is not the first.
Western missiles also have issues, but have been addressed (because of information sharing), but the Russian aren't interesred in sharing info, so their missiles remain 'inaccurate'.
Yubaru
If there is evidence, share it! I am tired of Trump saying something and expecting the world to accept it as fact!
Prove it, or do everyone a favor and shut the, you know what, up!