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Iran President Ahmadinejad proud of Holocaust denial

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absolute disgrace. with all these disgraceful attitudes, how can 'President' Ahmadinejad expect changes in attitude from the rest of the world? -.-

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And this is the guy the global leftists root for?

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Ahmadinejad is always trying to keep the attention on him, good or bad. So he pisses off a few more people.

This stuff just makes his day.

Now he's a jackass! < :-)

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Iran President Ahmadinejad proud of Holocaust denial

As is his neo-Nazi pal David Duke. The Islamist-Nazi Alliance continues.

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No concessions for this fool. More sanctions on Iran. The people of Iran need to know about the hardships this fool is bringing upon them. 100% food embargo on Iran now!!!

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I think we should Nuke Iran, and then afterwards deny having done it. Tell him, its all in his mind, hes making it up. Hundreds of thousands of dead Iranians, and its all bull. See if he keeps denying the holocaust then.

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I think we should Nuke Iran, and then afterwards deny having done it." Never thought of that one....

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Actually Ahmadinejad has been waving a "nuke me" sign at the Israelis for years, arming Hizbollah in Lebanon to the teeth and engaging encouraging other groups, like Hamas, to engage in various mischief. If he keeps at it, he may someday realise his wish.

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I think Ahmadinejab overestimates the level of hatred normal people in Iran have for Israel. Trying to leverage anti Israel sentiment to galvanize patriotic responses from Irans grizzly voters is clearly not having any effect.

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Now WHO is the Great Satan? This guy just needs to fall off the face of the earth.

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It's rare to find a political leader with the balls to say what he feels.

As I understand it, he isn't saying the Jews didn't die. He is simply saying the story of the Holocaust isn't true.

And according to evidence the holocaust could not have happened as stated. And this is also what I have concluded after examining both sides of the argument.

The Nerumberg trials were a farce. It was just lynching of Germans.

The world needs more politicians like him.

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This man is an evil dictator, ust like his chum Adolf Hitler who was responsible for the mass murder of over 6 million Jews and also the deaths of countless thousands of other nationalities as well,in his evil concentration camps. These are historical facts. I believe he is now suffering eternal judgement and punishment for his sins, just as this man will also follow the same fate if he does not have a change of heart before he dies. Mael Shame on you, to try to deny historical fact. The late President Eisenhour once stated that "some day, some bastard would come along and try to deny that this (the Holocaust) never happened, so he ordered photgraphs to be taken of what the Allied soldiers found upon entering the Camps. Those who attempt to deny history are of the same ilk as those who committed the evil in the first place.

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Here is a classic example of an idiotic, arrogant, ignorant pr*k who is proud of his stupidity. And that person has been elected as a leader of a nation. How do you deal with this situation? Or does he deny historical facts just to provoke and/or hope to receive support from Middle East nations?

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Is he not afraid of provoking an American 'liberation'? Mael, Mael, Mael ... Has all the brainwashing we've done had no effect at all?

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And this is the guy the global leftists root for?

????????????????? what the...

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The only thing he's really in denial of is his need of platform shoes.

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The Nerumberg trials were a farce. It was just lynching of Germans

Well, we could not very well execute the entire population of Germany could we?

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what exactly was the promise made at midnight? just wondering.

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イランは要らん。Translation: Iran is not needed. But it's much funnier in Japanese.

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If someone were to nuke Iran, the rest of the world could always claim that Iran had an accidental discharge of one of their own bombs....That would be believable.

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The evidence that the holocaust occured is available for anybody who cares to look at it. But that evidence doesn't fit in with some people's political agenda and thus it gets ignored. Access is limited in some countries and what passes for "historical authorship" is written by "scholars" who haven't got a clue.

As long as Ahmadinejad keeps up with this drivel there is no real possibility of peace in the Middle East. Of course peace is not his goal anyway...

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Actually I've read that the number of people who believe the nonsense that the holocaust never happened is on the rise. The main reason I think is that the Jewish people traditionally have not endeared themselves (through no fault of their own to a large degree) to a good portion of the world, and the old anti-semetism is still a strong hold. And now younger generations who weren't around in the 1930's and 40's don't see how it could have happened. The true evil and horror of Germany's 'final solution' against the Jews, gypsies, etc and any politicl oponent becomes a thing of myth and disbelief. It most certainly wasn't a myth for the millions who died at the hands of the Nazi Germany. Ahmadinejad simply hates Jews and tries to play up the notion that the holocaust never happened to belittle their claims to land (Israel). Why other faux historians go along with this is mystery. People can find 'fact' to support any claim that they wish and there always will be a certain number of stupid people who believe them. Stupidity is man's downfall in repeating events of history when lessons should have been learned. The evidence is there - not faked, not doctored, not a figment of the Jewish imagination. It happened, it's real and it was even more horrible than most realize. I'd always say that opposing opinions are a person's right and business - but in my opinion if you deny an event of this magnitude that was so life-devastating to so many people you are indeed an idiot. And for those who ask how Iran could elect such an idiot? Well, we do it all the time as do most countries. He'll go away in a few years.

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tigermoth:

Actually I've read that the number of people who believe the nonsense that the holocaust never happened is on the rise. The main reason I think is that...

This is peculiar, considering that in many places it is illegal to espouse that view. In fact, posts like yours can remain unchallenged because it is illegal to challenge your view! This censorship and denial of free speech may actually encourage people's skepticism, unfortunately.

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I'm sure he's proud to stoke outrage, that's what he does best. The guy's a loon and there's no way he won the election fairly.

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As a leader he lacks sparkle and brains. As a citizen of the world he is glad that he could stoke the fire beneath the decency of all those who would not forget such a tragedy. He is a disgrace to be leader of any country, a poster boy for beelzebub's stooopid club!

Anyway, do you think the Nazis would have treated muslims any better? I guess so, since the Palestinian Amin Al-Husseini had his own muslim nazi troops and welcomed the nazis with open arms... siding with the devil because the hatred is so great. This extremist militant view is a direct precursor to the terrorists of today, including Hamas. Muslims of today need to face the fact and move far away from these rabid views that Christians and Jews are out to get them. Don't forget Hitler wasn't even a Christian... Catholics were persecuted in Nazi Germany as well. So why weren't muslims as eagerly killed off? The reason is that the radical muslims served a purpose for the nazis – lackeys of the nazi war machine.

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If there are any PROUD muslims knowing the fact that muslim nazis existed to participate in the genocide of any people, they should in fact agree with every lie that Ahmadinejad has stated. I've already seen his disciples here.

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So will he get arrested if he travels to Europe?

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So will he get arrested if he travels to Europe?

Perhaps they should let him travel to Poland and spend some time at Auschwitz.

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And according to evidence the holocaust could not have happened as stated. And this is also what I have concluded after examining both sides of the argument.

Alright, explain the numerical discrepency between the censuses before the war and after the war of roughly 6 million. Either they set up a colony on mars, went underground, or they died. Considering all the records kept by Nazi administrators my money would be on the latter although the idea of "Jews in Space" does have a certain appeal to it. Maybe then Mel Brooks can make another movie.

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US, Allied, Russian and Red Cross numbers put the actual number of Jewish people who died in ALL camps from 1939 to 1945 at about 185,000 when the tally was done in 1945. How the heck did this mythical figure of 6,000,000 emerge when the Jewish-community installed plaque at Ozviecim/Auswicz states that it was much fewer? How?

The Iranian President ( and I don't care much for him, I must admit), has taken the time to read the numbers and come to the same logical conclusion I have. Why the insistence on this magical number of 6,000,000. Tell me?

Unless, of course, it's a L I E? Let's have an intelligent debate on this, shall we? But President ArmouredDinnerJacket has one great point: WHY was Palestine given to the Jews for what Germans did? Shouldn't they have given them, say, Saxony? Or Bavaria? Or even Rheinphalz Westphalia (if you can pronounce it)??????? Logic anyone?

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LIBERTAS at 04:04 AM JST - 23rd September

“WHY was Palestine given to the Jews for what Germans did? Shouldn't they have given them, say, Saxony? Or Bavaria? Or even Rheinphalz Westphalia (if you can pronounce it)??????? Logic anyone?”

I you are being deliberately obtuse here, because you claim to have done the reading, so why haven’t you remembered that Palestine was designated as a Jewish homeland a long time before Hitler & co. came along. Also when we come to your number crunching you do remember that there were many death camps & many other ways that Germany worked at killing people they disliked.

But far be it from me to point out where you twist history to suit your own ends, I am sure that writing as you do helps you feel comfortable with the company you keep.

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I'd like to see him shoot his mouth off to the UN and get himself banned from being there. He'll have to mouth off with a hired mouthpiece from a distance.

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Since this fool travels under diplomatic immunity and so cannot be prosecuted what needs to be done is that when he first tries to deny the holocaust at the UN everybody should simply get up & walk out leaving only fools & bigots to listen to his ramblings. That might send a far more powerful message to the people of Iran.

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mael,

" . . . according to evidence the holocaust could not have happened as stated."

An old and empty argument propped up by evidence generated via dubious methods that have since been disproven.

"It's rare to find a political leader with the balls to say what he feels."

Diarrhea of the mouth is not an admirable quality in anyone, particularly someone who is bears the responsibility of securing the safety of an entire nation of people.

.

LIBERTAS,

"WHY was Palestine given to the Jews for what Germans did?"

That's a very good point that I've often wondered myself. But as you stated, it's Ahmadinejad's solitary valid point. Does that one point have the makings of a foundation for an argument disclaiming the Holocaust? Logically, no.

In a World War that resulted in the deaths of nearly 4% of the earth's population (70 million people), I find it interesting that Holocaust Deniers have such a hard time wrapping their brains around 6 million deaths.

It's painfully obvious that you, as is the case with most Holocaust Deniers, were not alive during WWII, and have no real frame of reference for the kind of carnage that occurred during that war. There hasn't been a war before or since that involved the level of destruction and death that the world saw in Europe and Asia at that time.

To bring you up to speed, might I recommend "The Descent into Barbarism (History of the 20th Century 2)," Volume 2, by Martin Gilbert, to give you a sense of how bad things really were in the 1930s and 40s?

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Never ceases to amaze me how so many on the left throughout North America and Europe side with theocratic, totalitarian Iran, led by this Holocaust denier, against democratic, pluralistic Israel.

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"WHY was Palestine given to the Jews for what Germans did?"

Huh??? Germany's role in the affair was preceded by Great Britain's, more than 30 years before the UN vote on partition and the establishment of the Jewish state. Please note the following: "The Balfour Declaration dated 2 November 1917 was a formal statement of policy by the British government stating that 'His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.'"

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Beezlebub, your point on dates of intention is taken, and appreciated. However, it historical fact that intention became reality only after what happened in Germany.

it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine

Clearly understood in 1917, but wholly forgotten in 1948.

Incidentally, though it is illegal to maintain that "the holocaust" did not occur as alleged, it is not illegal to maintain that genocide did not occur in Ruanda, or Cambodia, or elsewhere. What is so special about the Nazi slaughter that we need laws to probibit people from claiming it was not so bad?

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LFRagain:

There hasn't been a war before or since that involved the level of destruction and death that the world saw in Europe and Asia at that time...

But we are not talking about the nature of the war -- we are talking about the nature of the genocide or slaughter. And there have been plenty of episodes equalling or surpassing the Nazi efficiency, most notable Ruanda and Cambodia.

In Ruanda, far more people were slaughtered per day then by the Nazis. Cambodia -- you have seen the piles of human remains, I suppose. But you think that does not bear comparison with what happened to the Jews?

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Cicada,

In Ruanda, far more people were slaughtered per day then by the Nazis.

No, we aren't talking about the nature of war, but you seem unwilling to accept the number of 6 million as plausible, and you have to understand the nature of the entirety of WWII to see that 6 million is not that difficult a number to reach.

You undermine one of the primary arguments of Holocaust Deniers with your example of the slaughters in Cambodia and Rwanda. In Rwanda alone, 800,000 to 1 million people were killed in 100 days.

The Nazis had seven years to accomplish what they did.

You even include a graphic reference to piles of bodies, yet piles of bodies uncovered in various camps and mass graves throughout Europe go unnoticed by you and other Holocaust Deniers. And somehow, 6 million Jews killed in a war that killed 70 million people is difficult for you to accept. Your selective reasoning here doesn't make a bit of sense.

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Cicada,

Your argument is jumping all over the map. What precisely is your position here? Are you trying to argue that the Holocaust never happened? Or are you trying to argue that it did happen, but on a smallere scale? Or are you trying to argue that it did happen, but it's no greater a tragedy than, say, the Rwanda Genocide?

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LFRagain:

Are you trying to argue...

No, I'm not making any of those arguments. I simply pointed out that in many places it is illegal to hold those views regarding "the holocaust", whereas it is not illegal to hold contrary views regarding other genocides and massacres. This is a simple fact, not an argument.

Or are you trying to argue that it did happen, but it's no greater a tragedy than, say, the Rwanda Genocide?... In Rwanda alone, 800,000 to 1 million people were killed in 100 days.The Nazis had seven years to accomplish what they did.

I'm not "arguing", but if you are a Rwandan affected by the genocide in Rwanda, then that tragedy is far greater than any other. Also, if one judges by sheer ferocity of killing, "the holocaust" is less horrific than the killing was in Rwanda, as you essentially pointed out with the comparison of an efficiency of 100 days versus 7 years.

And somehow, 6 million Jews killed in a war that killed 70 million people is difficult for you to accept.

Well, you've misunderstood me, I have no problem accepting that, though others do dispute it.

I would muse that the death of 1 million Rwandans in circumstances that were not a war killing 70 million others could be another factor making that genocide more horrific than "the holocaust".

But my only point is that there are no laws preventing people from expressing dissenting views with regard to other slaughters, but there are laws that will punish people for disputing details of the Nazi behavior.

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sad, yet amusing to see the holocaust-denyers scramble out from underneath their rocks when the subject pops up once or twice a year on JT.

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There's nothing wrong with Holocaust denial, everyone is entitled to an opinion. But for the leader of a country to show his ignorance / bias like that is a stupid move. Celebrating stupidity is not a good thing.

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US, Allied, Russian and Red Cross numbers put the actual number of Jewish people who died in ALL camps from 1939 to 1945 at about 185,000 when the tally was done in 1945. How the heck did this mythical figure of 6,000,000 emerge when the Jewish-community installed plaque at Ozviecim/Auswicz states that it was much fewer? How?

True! there is no explanation of how this number was emerged. Maybe number of 185.000 was just not good enough reason for them to have what they have today. Country, money, one of the biggest arsenal of nuclear weapons, not mentioning all the advantages they still enjoy even today. I know no other race or religion is as "untouchable" as Jews. I know truth doesn't need the protection of the law. There's something very wrong here.

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And somehow, 6 million Jews killed in a war that killed 70 million people is difficult for you to accept.

Any number, without credible evidence, regardless of how many people died in WW2 alltogether, is not acceptable. As Libertas has pointed, there is no base for the 6mil figure. It's made up figure, based on no evidence at all. All the hair, skin, bones, wallets and watches found, puts the number to around 185.000, not 6 mil.

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What is so special about the Nazi slaughter that we need laws to probibit people from claiming it was not so bad?

Exactely, why there has to be a law protecting the "truth"? Only this fact is enough to know that there's something else going on here.

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If President Ahmadinejad had insisted that the American genocide of native Americans (Indians) never took place, how many people would be objecting so emotionally?

It is not against the law to deny that Americans deliberately set out to slaughter and decimate the Indians. Indeed, ordinary Americans are encouraged to think that this is not the case! Yet the genocide is documented and seemingly "undeniable".

So why the big fuss when Ahmadinejad expresses his opinion regarding some other slaughter? Why the laws prohibiting dissenting views?

There's no consistency here. And yes, that is suspicious to many.

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Beelzebub,

First of all, the British had no business giving Palestine away to anyone.

Second, did you bother reading the Balfour Declaration? Especially the part about "it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine". Hello?

And they did not just set up a home within Palestine, they stole practically all the best land and left only a few scattered pieces of land for the "non-Jewish communities", and they control all the borders.

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sabiwabi:

And they did not just set up a home within Palestine, they stole practically all the best land and left only a few scattered pieces of land for the "non-Jewish communities", and they control all the borders.

This is true, but you are being too kind or circumspect. What the Israeilis are doing is nothing short of genocide, deliberately hoping to wipe out the Palestinians by various means. And when the Palestinians resist with their home-made rockets and whatnot, they are called "terrorists".

How ironic that it is illegal to deny that the Jews were targeted for genocide, while yet the Jews are now doing the same thing to the Palestinians.

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RandomTask

There's nothing wrong with Holocaust denial, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Its against the law in France : you pay an heavy fine and/or you go to jail.

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This is true, but you are being too kind or circumspect.

Yes, because I want to avoid getting my posts deleted for allegedly being "vulgar and offensive". This used to happen every time a post was critical of Israel, but now criticism of Israel has become a little more tolerated ever since Israel's nature has become more obvious to the world due to their latest Gaza carnage (it wasn't their first however).

What the Israeilis are doing is nothing short of genocide,

I agree!

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This used to happen every time a post was critical of Israel

Nah, it used to (and still seems to) happen to you because you are willing to add critcisms of Israel to an article about Kitty-chan.

BTW, you haven't had a chance to fact check, but genocide is an English word that has a meaning. You two don't seem to understand its meaning. Of course, this is obvious because neither of you seem to consider what the Nazis did to the people in the camps genocide. Go back and study some reading and phonics and brush up your skills, Then maybe you can attempt to engage in conversation about genocides, okay?

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kinniku:

this is obvious because neither of you seem to consider what the Nazis did to the people in the camps genocide. Go back and study some reading and phonics...

I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth. I have never stated that the Jews were not subjected to genocide, so I suggest YOU study some more phonics, if that's what you think it takes to read with comprehension and to digest the logic of what is set forth.

Moderator: Readers, we understand this is an emotionally charged topic, but if any of you wish to continue posting here, then you must conduct yourselves in a civil manner.

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Cicada,

have never stated that the Jews were not subjected to genocide

Well, you certainly seemed to be making an attempt to lessen the horror when you made the inane attempt at an analogy when you wrote on September 24th:

'Also, if one judges by sheer ferocity of killing, "the holocaust" is less horrific than the killing was in Rwanda, as you essentially pointed out with the comparison of an efficiency of 100 days versus 7 years.'

This need to lessen the horror of something horrific is something that I cannot imagine needing to do. I don't see the logic in it either. However, I believe I was correct in my assessment that you were attempting to lessen the horror of the holocaust in a recent discussion. So, no, I guess I don't need those phonics lessons. But, thank anyway...

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kinniku:

Well, you certainly seemed to be making an attempt to lessen the horror

If this is what you think, then why is it that you instead falsely claimed I don't

seem to consider what the Nazis did to the people in the camps genocide

That was deliberate distortion on your part. Not a tactic with much persuasive power.

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Cicada,

I wrote 'doesn't seem to' because what you wrote did seem to be making an attempt to lessen the horror of the camps genocide. Again, when you did that it seemed that you were essentially denying that it was such a big deal. In fact, you have falsely suggested in other conversations that the numbers killed do not have any basis in historical fact. It is not my 'tactic' that led me to my conclusion, it is your words. Maybe you should consider choosing them more accurately and carefully if you want to be taken seriously. This is true no matter what name you use when you post...

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Ahmadinejad's denial of the holocaust would be like me denying the 1980-89 Iran-Iraq war ever took place. Sorry - and this goes for people who claim only 185,000 Jews were killed by the Nazis - there is too much documentary evidence, too many photographs and videos. The Nazis were very precise in recording what they did and so archive evidence alone is overwhelming. By stating that 'only' 185,000 died, you end up looking foolish because your statement is not based on facts but on misguided emotions.

While the behaviour and actions of the Israeli government over a period of decades has been nothing short of despicable, you cannot deny what took place during world war 2 (the Japanese have tried it over the Nanjing massacre and it just doesn't work; deny all you like but there is enough evidence for us to know it happened). Perhaps if Israel treated its neighbours with less disdain and brutality, and that Iran had leaders who weren't dangerous religious fanatics then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

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"The American government must change its policy"

What! The Iranians aren't happy with the Obama administration's policy? What do we have to do, elect a fundamentalist Islamic government?

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Sorry - and this goes for people who claim only 185,000 Jews were killed by the Nazis - there is too much documentary evidence, too many photographs and videos.

Documentary evidence? Such as? Sorry but the evidence does not support millions murdered in camps. However, there is documentary evidence that there was a typhus epidemic. Also near the end of the war, the German infrastructure was crumbling, food and medicine were lacking, nobody can dispute that. Plus, with the advancing red army, the inmates moved west with the Nazis, resulting in extremely overcrowded camps, with a typhus epidemic, little food, little medecine. The resulting horror can be seen in the many photos and videos everyone has seen. Nobody denies it was horrific, but there is simply no evidence of a planned murder of the European Jewish population.

The Nazis were very precise in recording what they did and so archive evidence alone is overwhelming.

Wow, you sound like someone who has looked at these documents. Then you might like to enlighten us all as to what documents prove a systematic plan to murder the European Jews. I have heard that claim so many times, but nobody has been able to provide such document.

While the behaviour and actions of the Israeli government over a period of decades has been nothing short of despicable, you cannot deny what took place during world war 2.

I agree with you that Israel's action over a period of several decades has been despicable. But I hope you realize that the reporting from the MSM has been extremely distorted, not at all making the Israelis look despicable (although recent reports have slightly improved). So please keep in mind that those same sources of information that tell us that Israel is acting honorably and only in self-defense are also informing us about the alleged holocaust, alluding to mountains of documents and evidence and so on, but never quite showing us what the evidence is.

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kinniku:

you have falsely suggested in other conversations that the numbers killed do not have any basis in historical fact... no matter what name you use when you post...

No, I have not discussed that. You are confusing me with other posters.

I made analogies with other genocides, and so if I am comparing genocides it is obvious that I consider "the holocaust" a genocide, but you falsely claimed I do not consider it a genocide, and have not even bothered to apologize, but continue with your baiting.

I do wish you would stick to historical fact and refrain from unfair trashing of other posters who do not share your views in every respect. You only succeed in making your case much less persuasive to any careful reader.

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Cicada,

you have falsely suggested in other conversations that the numbers killed do not have any basis in historical fact... no matter what name you use when you post...

Seriously, do you want me to recommend a reading primer for you?

On September 27th you wrote:

Cicada at 07:38 PM JST - 27th September

In response to another poster offering the opinion that people will always argue about the 6 million number, but that it is the suffering and cold-blooded murder that few historical events share on which people should focus.

On September 27th at 7:38pm you wrote back with:

Are you aware of the nonsensicality of your statement? First off, you admit that the number is not based on any historical reality

Now, first off, the other poster 'admitted' not such thing. Second, you have admitted, by using the word admitted here, that you seem to feel that the number is not based on any historical reality...or you would not have written what you wrote.

In addition, for some very strange reason, in your posts about this subject, you use quotations around the world holocaust, which to most people would suggest you don't think it should be called that...

So, I apologize for suggesting you don't think the holocaust was a genocide. I guess it is that you don't think it was as big a genocide as other genocides...that you can't mention. Do I have your 'opinions' correct now?

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Kinniku,

Anyway, while you have succeeded in littering this thread with your confused interpretation of Cicada view of the relative severity of the holocaust, I just want to point out that the main issues raised by President Ahmadinejad remain unaddressed. For example, why is it that the Palestinians have had to pay for so long for something that happened in Europe and why can't the world freely investigate and discuss this one historical event.

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sabiwabi,

seem to be struggling with the English language more than most people on this forum.

How so, as always, you provide no details whatsoever. What I wrote is correct and you have been unable to point out where specifically what I wrote is incorrect. Do that and then let's talk.

Anyway, while you have succeeded in littering this thread with your confused interpretation of Cicada view of the relative severity of the holocaust

It is not I that is confused, it is you and Cicada that seem to be confused. You don't think it happened at all and Cicada seems to think there are lots of events just like it or worse.

For example, why is it that the Palestinians have had to pay for so long for something that happened in Europe

Well, thank you for admitting something happened anyway. I know how hard that is for you to do. However, Palestinians today are not paying for what happened in Europe. They are paying for a leadership that is not only split, but one fork does not even want to negotiate for a real peace in which both nations can live safely. You agree with that fork.

why can't the world freely investigate and discuss this one historical event.

Ridiculous. The world discusses it all the time, as are we now discussing it. Please do not mistake parts of Europe for 'the world'. If you have a problem with laws in certain countries, maybe you should complain to those countries or better yet become a citizen and change the laws. However, the truth is that even in places where it is and can be discussed freely, holocaust deniers fail to actually bring any real information to the table. This was true in Iran and it is true all over the world.

Lastly, where is your specific proof of your numbers, sabiwabi?

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Lastly, where is your specific proof of your numbers, sabiwabi?

Done that, many times, as have others on this forum. Since you're so good at searching old posts for tidbits of information TO MISQUOTE, why don't you search the info yourself. Its there, unless you continue to refuse to see it.

Similar numbers have been provided by various sources. But more importantly, there is no proof of the six million, or any proof that they were gassed (or electrocuted, or killed by carbon monoxide, or eaten by bears, or other even more ludicrous methods the holocaust industry have thrown at us over the years).

For example, why is it that the Palestinians have had to pay for so long for something that happened in Europe

Well, thank you for admitting something happened anyway.

Oh, for once I forgot to add the word "alleged" and you jump on it like a kindergartner; very mature.

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Done that, many times, as have others on this forum.

No, you have not. You have repeated the numbers you claim. However, you have never, ever specifically explained why these numbers could ever be true.

Similar numbers have been provided by various sources.

Quote some, please. Let's see your various 'sources'.

there is no proof of the six million, or any proof that they were gassed (or electrocuted, or killed by carbon monoxide, or eaten by bears, or other even more ludicrous methods the holocaust industry have thrown at us over the years).

Yes, there is and you have admitted to seeing documents that suggest there is.

Oh, for once I forgot to add the word "alleged" and you jump on it like a kindergartner; very mature.

Sorry, I forgot that you are a 100% holocaust denier. Thank you for making that clear again.

If you are going to repeat your claims, it is time for you to give very specific information as to why you claim what you do. If you cannot easily and simply do this, it stands to reason that your claims are not based in reality.

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He should become a JT poster - being contravesial just for the sake of it. Of course the Holocaust happened - toomuch eveidence to claim otherwise. Just like Nanking happened, firebombing og Germany happened, Japan too, Stalin killed millions of his own etc etc. just because some people still deny those facts doesn't mean the wieight of evidence should be ignored.

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No, you have not. You have repeated the numbers you claim. However, you have never, ever specifically explained why these numbers could ever be true.

You have a very selective memory.

there is no proof of the six million, or any proof that they were gassed...Yes, there is and you have admitted to seeing documents that suggest there is.

Suggests? Yes, if I remember correctly, you brought up a document or letter about a German who allegedly did something (gassing) to a few prisoners (death row?). And if I remember correctly, he was executed for this...

Or is it Wansee you're referring to, where some Nazi talks about getting Jews out of Europe.

Anyway, if you know of such proof, please let us know, because even Raul Hilberg, who was a top holocaust "researcher", was forced to admit, when questioned under oath, that he knew of no such document.

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Wakarimasen,

toomuch eveidence to claim otherwise.

so many people claim that, but nobody ever provides the evidence, it just ain't there.

There is no evidence to support that millions were murdered in the camps. However, there is documentary evidence that there was a typhus epidemic. Also near the end of the war, the German infrastructure was crumbling, food and medicine were lacking, nobody can dispute that. Plus, with the advancing red army, the inmates moved west with the "evil" Nazis, resulting in extremely overcrowded camps, with a typhus epidemic, little food, little medecine. The resulting horror can be seen in the many photos and videos everyone has seen. Nobody denies it was horrific, but there is simply no evidence of a planned murder of the European Jewish population.

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you brought up a document or letter about a German who allegedly did something (gassing) to a few prisoners (death row?)

It was not 'alleged', they were not death row prisoners and it was not 'a few'. Lastly, it happened and you have been claiming it didn't.

if I remember correctly, he was executed for this...

No, of course, you remember incorrectly. He was executed for taking children out of the camp. However, you admit he was executed and you claim it was because he gassed people that you usually claim were not gassed. Again, for your benefit I repeat, you incorrectly say there is no record of gassing, then you incorrectly claim a Nazi was executed for gassing people you have been contantly claiming there is no record of being gassed. Ummm...as usual, you have not thought things through clearly. See that is what I mean. You do not seem to have a clear idea of events nor do you have any specific facts to back up your outrageous claims.

it just ain't there.

Before you start jumping up and down about nothing again, yes, I know, you were writing to someone else. However, what 'isn't there' is any evidence whatsoever of your constantly repeated claims. How about actually attempting to provide real specifics for your inaccurate claims.

Now how about attempting to specifically and accurately back up your number count? You still have not done it.

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However, what 'isn't there' is any evidence whatsoever of your constantly repeated claims.

Are you saying that there was not a typhus epedemic? If so, a quick PubMed search would prove you wrong. BTW, that is why they had Zyklon B in the camps, to save lives.

Are you saying that near the end of the war, the German infrastructure was fine and food and medicine was plentiful for all outside the camps?

Are you saying the camps were not overcrowded near the end of the war (especially as the inmates retreated with the Nazis instead of waiting for the Russian liberators?

These are claims, which I have supported with evidence, that are easily verifiable.

Any reasonably intelligent person who would accept these facts will understand that the outcome would not be pretty. And that is what we see in the pictures and movies. But to say that the Nazis systematically murdered 6 million Jews is completely baseless.

I could also repeat, once again, the investigations by Germar Rudolf, Fred Leuchter, David Cole, Robert Faurisson, Fred Toben, and others so that you can "refute" them with you usual childish excuses.

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Germar Rudolf : "A German court sentenced Holocaust denier Germar Rudolf to two and a half years in prison for inciting racial hatred in publications..."

Fred Leuchter : "Frederick A. (Fred) Leuchter, Jr. (born 1943) is a self-taught American execution technician and author of Holocaust denial material"

David Cole : "David Cole forced to recant his revisionist views..." (www.geniebusters.org/915/04h_Cole.html)

Robert Faurisson "Robert Faurisson is a French Holocaust denier...Faurisson was fined for defamation by a French court in 1983, for the maliciousness of his revisionist writings, which were found to violate hate speech laws"

Fred Toben "Töben has frequently been called a Holocaust denier,[4][5] and has been accused of antisemitism...He was convicted of "offending the memory of the dead" in Germany in 1999, for his Holocaust-denial activity there, for which he served seven months in prison.[7] In April 2009, Töben was found guilty of contempt of court for breaching a court order to refrain from publishing material which "vilifies Jewish people".[8] He appealed against the sentence, but on 13 August 2009 The Full Court of the Federal Court of Australia rejected his appeal, and he started his 3 month jail sentence

Sabiwabi

"We" dont refute these people...all the world refute these evil persons you have the nerve to cite !

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Are you saying that there was not a typhus epedemic? If so, a quick PubMed search would prove you wrong.

Umm...No, I did not say that. Could you read what you write and then read my responses. You should be able to understand that I was referring to your ridiculous constant claims that the holocaust did not happen.

Are you saying that near the end of the war, the German infrastructure was fine and food and medicine was plentiful for all outside the camps?

Ummm...specific proof, please that the typhus epidemic affected the outside of the camps in the way it did inside. Also, specific proof of the same kinds of malnourished people on the outside of the camps you have admitted seeing in photos of in the camps.

These are claims, which I have supported with evidence, that are easily verifiable.

Your attempts to shift the argument away from the center question of the fact that you cannot back up your numbers is rather silly considering you have been repeated said ridiculous numbers for about 4 years. What is your specific, clear and easily understandable back up for your total numbers of deaths in the camps.

I could also repeat, once again, the investigations by Germar Rudolf, Fred Leuchter, David Cole, Robert Faurisson, Fred Toben, and others so that you can "refute" them with you usual childish excuses.

Sorry, you seem to have gotten mixed up. It is their 'investigations' that were and are childish. How about actually getting some people on your side that actually know something about which they speak for a change?

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Oh and before I forget, you kept claiming that there were no homicidal gas chambers. Well, since you claim (incorrectly as it turns out about the reason for the execution) that the man was executed for gassing people. This means you actually have known and know that there were in fact homicidal gas chambers. Now, you can shake and dance all you like, but these are your words. Why would you ramble on and on saying they didn't exist, when you knew they did? How can anyone take anything you say seriously? The answer: they cannot.

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Your attempts to shift the argument away from the center question of the fact that you cannot back up your numbers is rather silly considering you have been repeated said ridiculous numbers for about 4 years.

No I am just tired of, every time we have a discussion of the holocaust, searching for the exact information and sources and then have you counter it with silly childish arguments, or where you misinterpret my views because you can't understand simple words like "much". Everything you are asking, I have provided many times, look for it.

Ummm...specific proof, please that the typhus epidemic affected the outside of the camps in the way it did inside.

Why do you need that, how is it relevant? I suspect the typhus was worst inside the camps since they were extremely overcrowded. The typhus came from the east, it did not originate in Germany. Many of the inmates who were taken from the east brought the typhus with them.

That is why the inmates had their heads shaved and were forced to shower regularly. New arrivals to the camp were screened and the sick ones were TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL. All the inmates' clothes were taken away to be deloused (hence the piles of cloths). Why do all this if they had a plan to exterminate all European Jews. The nazis did what they could with what they had to save lives.

The central question is that after all these years, so many have claimed that there are mountains of evidence or documents, but nobody has been able to provide it. If it was true, one should be able to provide it, no?

How about actually getting some people on your side that actually know something about which they speak for a change?

Well, lets see, Germar Rudolf was a chemistry PhD student working at the Max Planck, Fred Leuchter was a gas chamber expert.

David Cole visited Auschwitz with a video camera and asked questions. Maybe because he was Jewish and wore his cap, the guides and curator openned up to him and provided some interesting information. Are you saying his video was doctored or that the people in the video were actors impersonating guides and the curator?

This means you actually have known and know that there were in fact homicidal gas chambers. Now, you can shake and dance all you like, but these are your words. Why would you ramble on and on saying they didn't exist, when you knew they did?

See, this is what I mean about your childishness. We are discussing about some document you brought up about a guy doing, if I remember correctly, some experiments with some gases and I also remember that he was punished (maybe executed). That is all I remember about this. Did this guy use a chamber or a mask, I don't know and I don't particularly care since this is not part of the holocaust. There are homicidal gas chambers in the US, you know, as far as I know the US is not planning a genocide? there gas chambers?

So is this guy's alleged experimental gassing of some prisoners the only proof you got of the murder of 6 million Jews.

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No I am just tired of, every time we have a discussion of the holocaust, searching for the exact information and sources

You have never brought facts. You have brought rumors, guesses and accusations. Never have you brought scientific provable facts. If you are going to make your continous claims, you should be prepared to answers questions about your claims. This is reasonable and a part of a free speech discussion that you claim you want, but don't seem to when the discussion is not going your way.

Why do you need that, how is it relevant?

Because it stands to reason that the surrounding areas would be affected if your claims of the Nazis trying to 'save lives' of Jewish inmates were true. The fact that you don't know this is telling as well.

I suspect the typhus was worst inside the camps since they were extremely overcrowded.

Heh. Yes, you suspect lots of things. I am asking for facts, not your continous suspicions. Again, something you have had no time to fact check. Seems you really don't know much about this typhus epidemic and how much it affect things, huh. Find out first, then make your claims.

The nazis did what they could with what they had to save lives.

What you described can easily be explained as Nazis trying to save their own lives before killing the Jewish inmates. Your explanation does not discount this at all.

Germar Rudolf was a chemistry PhD student working at the Max Planck

He does not have a PhD, although he has lied about having one on a number of occasions in addition to using his own pseudonyms for footnotes for his own papers, and he was fired from Max Planck. Not a sterling example of an expert.

Fred Leuchter was a gas chamber expert.

Yes, sure he is. A guy reads some books on gas chambers and he is suddenly an 'expert'. I guess I am an astronaut. Who would have figured!

David Cole

Recanted his statements and has not made any statements after that. BTW, the video does not prove your numbers or that people were not gassed or killed.

That is all I remember about this.

Some researcher you are. Some information source you are. You don't even know the background about which you speak. Why should anyone listen to you? Sorry, 'I don't know' does not cut it when making the kind of silly claims you make.

Did this guy use a chamber or a mask

He used a chamber. Again, you really don't check anything, do you.

I don't know and I don't particularly care since this is not part of the holocaust.

Of course it is. It was the beginning of the switch to the use of gassing. You have read the documents requesting the materials and the permission to build the chamber and you acknowledge you know about them. You cannot backtrack away from this. You knew and know there was a gas chamber in Germany and you said there were none. You knew and know why it was used and you pretended you didn't. Why should anyone listen to you?

So, again, where is the proof of specifically of your numbers and the reasons for them. You wrote your numbers. It seems you don't know why you wrote them. Hardly surprising. However, pardon me for thinking that no one should take you seriously. You don't seem to have any idea what you are talking about. You have all this time to write what you did, but you cannot simply explain your numbers clearly. Now, that IS something to think about.

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Some researcher you are. Some information source you are. You don't even know the background about which you speak.

You brought up this document, not me. If you know so much about it, enlighten us.

Fred Leuchter was a gas chamber expert. Yes, sure he is. A guy reads some books on gas chambers and he is suddenly an 'expert'. I guess I am an astronaut.

For his first trial, Zundel was looking for a gas chamber expert so he contacted some American prison officials, someone recommended Fred Leuchter (you can see the correspondence on Zundel's website). He went to Auschwitch and concluded that the rooms claimed to have been used as homicidal gas chamber could not have been so. Fred Leuchter testified in court as a gas chamber expert, he was a gas chamber expert. But I know you claimed otherwise, as usual.

So if NASA hires you as an astronaut and sends you in space, and upon your return you testify in court as an astronaut, then you are an astronaut, even if some nut whines about you not being one.

I have provided lots of solid evidence over the years, just to have you ignore them.

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David Cole visited Auschwitz with a video camera

in 1992, so 50 years after the Holocaust ...

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You brought up this document, not me. If you know so much about it, enlighten us.

No, no, no. You claimed to have some secret knowledge that the gassings are a lie. I provided the document. You have read it. You know it details the homicidal gas chamber and suggestions for their usage and you know they were used or who used them. It is your job to prove your ridiculous theories, not the rest of the world. You claim ignorance of documents directly connected to something you claim to know so much about and attempt to say didn't happen. Yet, you now claim you don't know and care about a document both you and I know you have read.

For his first trial, Zundel

LOL! Ahhh, yes. You mean the trial Zundel lost. That must have been because his wonderful choices for expertise...NOT! Speaking of grasping at straws!

someone recommended Fred Leuchter

Who is not an expert...

Fred Leuchter testified in court as a gas chamber expert, he was a gas chamber expert.

Ummm...just because Zundel, whom even David Cole called a Neo-Nazi, btw, was silly enough to think he was an expert does not mean he was one. Zundel was also silly enough to asked Ball to be his aerial photography expert, and Ball was nothing resembling an expert. I find it amazing that you will readily accept the questionable 'expertise' of any old person as long as they share your extremely unconventional views of reality.

I have provided lots of solid evidence over the years, just to have you ignore them.

Nope. You have not. You have said that you 'will when you have time' etc. However, you never do. Why not do it now? You seem to have time to write what you have written. I think you don't have any evidence at all. It certainly appears that way.

Anyway, where did your numbers come from? A simple, clear and easy to understand answer will suffice. Some sort of specific, clear and accurate back up as well, please.

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You can whine about him all you want, but you cannot deny that Fred Leuchter was recommended by an American prison official (warden?) and that he testified in Zundel's first trial in Canada as an expert of gas chambers. Check the transcripts, I believe I've already kindly searched it for you myself in the past and posted it.

By the way, they ain't MY numbers.

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I have not denied that Zundel was silly enough to ask Leuchter to be his 'expert'. I am saying Leuchter is not qualified to be an real expert. BTW, just because Leuchter had someone silly enough to recommend him, does not mean he was an expert. Could you kindly explain where Leuchter's expertise supposedly comes from?

Again, I am aware Zundel picked non-experts such as Leuchter and Ball. In fact, such bad 'expert' witnesses helped Zundel, the Neo-Nazi, to lose his trial to which you keep referring.

Check the transcripts

Of the trial he lost? I don't need to. I already know Zundel lost because of his horrible witnesses.

I've already kindly searched it for you myself in the past and posted it.

Yes, but you declined to provide a link from an official source. I found that interesting, too.

By the way, they ain't MY numbers.

Umm...you are married to those numbers now. You quoted them. Now, why not attempt to back up what you say? Where did you get your numbers and, specifically, clearly and consisely what is the basis for them? These should be simple questions for someone like you who has been posting the same numbers for about four years now.

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I have not denied that Zundel was silly enough to ask Leuchter to be his 'expert'.

You still don't get it, do you.

Fred Leuchter was recommended by an American prison official (warden).

And

Fred Leuchter TESTIFIED in Zundel's first trial in Canada as an expert of gas chambers.

What is it about "TESTIFIED" you don't understand. The Canadian court recognized him as an expert. Just because you don't like his conclusion...

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How convenient, demand to know sources of information, and then unilaterally discredit those people with no regard to the veracity of the information.

How could they be credible, it is argued, when they have been jailed for violating "hate speech laws"? Never mind that these laws prohibit even the slightest questioning of "holocaust" details. It goes without saying that if someone persists with such questioning, then they will run afoul of the anti-free-speech laws.

The only thing discredited here is the pretention of the right to free speech in a democracy.

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Its unfortunate that trials in Germany cannot discuss the veracity of the holocaust claims. I'm afraid we will never have another trial like Zundel's first one in Canada, where holocaust "experts" could be cross examined. Its a shame. Ahmadinejad speaks the truth when he says that we cannot freely discuss or investigate the holocaust.

BTW, is it just me or is the title to this article somewhat odd:"Iran President Ahmadinejad proud of Holocaust denial"

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sabiwabi

BTW, is it just me or is the title to this article somewhat odd:"Iran President Ahmadinejad proud of Holocaust denial"

Yes, I think the headline comes from this passage:

Asked about widespread condemnation of such remarks, Ahmadinejad said Monday: “The anger of the world’s professional killers is (a source of) pride for us,” according to state news agency IRNA.

I assume he is primarily referring to the murderous regime of Israel. But it is a distortion to say he is "proud of his remarks" when what he clearly meant is that he is "proud of standing up to powerful enemies".

Most people are content to stay out of controversy and avoid questioning the prevailing propaganda and half-truths. Not only for this issue, but many others, 911, events in Palestine, etc. In this case, President Ahmadinejad's remarks can be taken as resistance of Israeli domination.

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Cicada,

Thanks for clearing that up.

I agree that most people will remain content with the prevailing propaganda, remembering only the impression given by the headline. They'll basically think that Ahmadinejad just likes to piss off Jews, like poking them with a stick.

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sabiwabi,

Could I please have specific proof that the Canadian court recognized him as an expert?

Ball also testified as an expert and was practically laughed out of the court. I would like to see official records showing the court recognized Leuchter as an expert. To my knowledge, it is not necessary in a Canadian court for an expert witness for one side to be recognized as such. So, I await your specific proof of this. I do not doubt Zundel was silly enough to believe Leuchter was an expert. I would like you to show me he was certified or specifically officially recognized as such, for that is what you are suggesting.

Just testifying in a trial does not make you an expert. There are plenty of bad witnesses in trials. Do you understand that? Zundel sure does, for he lost his trial, as you know.

I'm afraid we will never have another trial like Zundel's first one in Canada, where holocaust "experts" could be cross examined.

Ummm...How conveniently you forget David Irving's lost trial in England. There again deniers were shown to have not possessed any useful evidence whatsoever.

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Cicada,

But it is a distortion to say he is "proud of his remarks" when what he clearly meant is that he is "proud of standing up to powerful enemies".

Good to see you are President Ahmadinejad's wingman. How is it you know what he clearly meant?

How convenient, demand to know sources of information, and then unilaterally discredit those people with no regard to the veracity of the information.

LOL! How so? If someone is found to be wrong or bias, or they are found to not actually be experts, what is wrong with pointing this out? Do you even know what or who we are talking about? You leave one with the impression that you do not as you again make no specific comments whatsoever.

How could they be credible, it is argued, when they have been jailed for violating "hate speech laws"?

LOL! Who said that? I am saying they are not experts full stop. How do you specifically feel? Do you know their backgrounds. You do not speak to them at all. How can you say whether criticism is warranted or not if you do not seem to know exactly what we are talking about?

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Could I please have specific proof that the Canadian court recognized him as an expert?

As I have explained many times, at Zundel's site you can find the copies of the correspondence between Zundel and the American prison official (they have real gas chambers there). His site also provides the transcripts for the trial. I have quoted them extensively in the past. If you're not happy with this source, you can probably request an official copy, but I believe Zundel mentioned its quite pricey. Its very telling that the holocaust industry do not provide the transcripts.

There are plenty of bad witnesses in trials. Do you understand that?

I agree, there were many such witnesses at Nuremberg...

Anyway, Fred Leuchter testified in Zundel's first trial in Canada as an expert of gas chambers, not just as a witness. The Canadian court recognized him as an expert. So people should at least consider his findings, and they are quite interesting.

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sabiwabi,

Don't you get it? I am not interested in Zundel's (you know the man David Cole referred to on TV as a 'neo-Nazi') ramblings. I would like you to provide official references so that readers can ascertain the validity of them. If you cannot provide some sort of actual official source, your claims can hardly be taken seriously.

Leutcher was not trained in anything connected with gas chambers or electric chairs and I challenge you to prove me incorrect.

I also challenge you to provide proof that the Canadian court specifically certified him as a gas chamber expert. Leuchter himself told prison officials that he was not such an expert. There is a movie about him starring the man himself. You probably have not seen it. You should. The man is not the expert you attempt to make him out to be.

there were many such witnesses at Nuremberg...

So you say. Then again, you also say things like the moon missions were faked, Ari Fleischer is an ordained rabbi, Fox News owns Al Jazeera or that top Nazis and Hitler were Jewish, in addition to saying you would not be surprised to find out that Hitler was a nice guy. So, pardon anyone for not taking anything you say particularly seriously.

The Canadian court recognized him as an expert.

Again, just because he was allowed to testify, does not mean 'the Canadian court recognized him as an expert'. You need to show proof of such recognition in the form of some specific official proof.

Of course one should consider that Leuchter's 'findings' as you refer to them, helped sink Zundel's already leaking ship of a trial. You know, the trial Zundel lost, just as David Irving did.

So, when exactly do you think you will get around to specifically, clearly, simply and concisely explaining your unrealistic numbers of only 200,000 deaths Jewish inmates during WWII you have continued to claim? You are married to those numbers now. You quoted them. Now, why not attempt to back up what you say? Where did you get your numbers and, specifically, clearly and consisely what is the basis for them? These should be simple questions for someone like you who has been posting the same numbers for about four years now.

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Kinniku,

Did you bother reading my post. You have to pay to get the official transcripts. As far as I know, Zundel is the only one to have done that and make the information publicly available (I wonder why). If you know of an "official" source, please let us know.

In court Leuchter was qualified as an expert in the design, construction, maintenance and operation of execution gas chambers.

Leuchter also testified that he had served as a consultant to the states of South Carolina and Missouri regarding the operation of execution gas chambers, and was under contract with the state of Missouri to completely reconstruct their gas chamber. He had studied all existing systems utilizing lethal gas and had consulted with large manufacturers of sodium and hydrogen cyanide.

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sabiwabi,

Yes, I read your post. Did you read mine? I am not at all interested in Zundel's possibly edited versions of transcripts. If you cannot provide an official source and official proof, you do not know whether Zundel's version of the transcripts of accurate. What we do know for sure is that Zundel lost his trial.

You still have not provided official proof of certification or official recognition of Leuchter being an expert. For example, you say 'he studied'. Where would that study have taken place? Is it in an institution of learning on the planet earth? All you have done is copied what you seemed to have read on Zundel's nutty adventure of a website.

Still waiting for what seems to be non-existent specific, clear, simple and concise explaination of your unrealistic numbers of only 200,000 deaths Jewish inmates during WWII that you have continued to claim? You are married to those numbers now. You quoted them. Now, why not attempt to back up what you say? Where did you get your numbers and, specifically, clearly and consisely what is the basis for them? These should be simple questions for someone like you who has been posting the same numbers for about four years now.

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kinniku:

How is it you know what he clearly meant?

Because I know how to read. It's obvious from the content and context of the article, including the quote I cited. However, if you disagree with me, feel free to ask President Ahmadinejad himself. lol.

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Cicada,

That did not really answer the question, did it? What specifically lets you know what he clearly meant. I never claimed to meet President Ahmadinejad. You are the one who is claiming distortion. Why when asked, is it that you cannot be specific?

What did he say that makes you so sure that as you wrote:

'when what he clearly meant is that he is "proud of standing up to powerful enemies".'

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Why when asked, is it that you cannot be specific?

Re-read my posts a few dozen times, and maybe you will see that I was specific. Bye now.

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Cicada,

Yeah, bye. Anyway, your posts mainly focus on the holocaust. You barely even mention Ahmadinejad in most of your posts. BTW,have you actually read your posts in this discussion?

Again, what is the distortion you are so sure is so clear?

Your one quote of Ahmadinejad's is '“The anger of the world’s professional killers is (a source of) pride for us,” according to state news agency IRNA.' From this quote, and this quote alone that you have quoted, how is it that you are so sure he is not proud of his remarks. Has he said that? Could you point to that specifically?

I think the man loves the attention and that he certainly is proud of his statements. Just as he was proud of the wonderful 'light' he claims he was bathed in at the UN a while back. Anyway, I look forward to your explanation as, so far, we just have your opinion of what he meant to say (which is fine, but that is all it is) and nothing specifically and directly connected to it regarding anything Ahmadinejad has said. After all, the man did not say what you said, he said what he said.

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