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Iran's Ahmadinejad calls official version of Sept 11 attacks a 'big lie'

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Mahmoud Ahmadinejad .. called the official version of the Sept 11 attacks a “big lie” used by the U.S. as an excuse for the war on terror,

Not the first time I've heard such opinions expressed. Nothing outrageous here. I happen to believe it myself, that they could have done more to prevent it, and that they deliberately used it as an excuse for war. I also believe that they provoked it with their unbelievable support for Israel's behavior against it's neighbouring countries. I also believe that they'll never learn from their own mistakes, and that the whole world will suffer for it in one way or another.

He's also not the only person suspicious about who died and how many. There are all sorts of conspiracy theories on the subject out there. It's not really surprising that Iranians might feel doubt about the official story when a large portion of free-speaking people express there own doubt loudly in places where absolutely anyone can access it.

At least it appears he didn't suggest Bush organised the whole attack, unlike some non-Iranians I've heard about.

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Most of the people feel the same that it was a 'lie' - how BIG depends on individuals, leaders, nations...but ofcourse that is of least importance.

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Well, lots of Americans believe this. As dammit says, What's new? It just means that Ahmadinejad has been reading up on US conspiracy bloggers.

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Agreed, certainly that was a BIG lie and a pretext for the war on terror (Muslims). Yet continuing & people-nations are slapping awake by the corrupt selfish politicians.

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Yes, when you see all the vids, you see Bush's reaction, you see that all he had on his heart was a war against Iraq to honor his father and bring oil/money to US military industry, AND you realise little by little along 8 years that the man is a natural liar...it's not hard to believe it was all concerted.

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Cool...a nutter like Ahmadinejad just joined the conspiracy theory nutters. Credibility on all sides just got a step closer to zero.

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its beats me that after nearly ten years, the US with all its 'resources' hasnt been unable to trackdown and defeat around 100 guys hiding out in caves.. me thinks that the US, the biggest manufacturer and exporter of weapons (70% of world output) has a vested interest in keeping these 'wars' going ...profit, profit and more profit for a small number of companies

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very true bout american jumping to conclusion, but president ahmadinejad is a BIGGER LIE he is not even a president just a WANNA BE

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I expect him to be interviewed by Alex Jones any moment now...

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This is just part of the propaganda war, and the comments were released by state media for domestic and/or international consumption. I doubt that he really cares one way or the other about what happened Sept. 11th.

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I don't think the 9/11 story is a big lie. I think its a bunch of little lies with big effect! Whatever Congress said, even if they are completely honest, do you really think they have all the information?

I am not really sure what makes Ahmadinejad such a hated figure. As far as I know all he does is talk and point fingers at the U.S. and Israeli governments. Judging by my posts, I might be Ahmadinejad!

Maybe someone can explain to me why he is so hated, even above Bush, Blair, or Sharon? Might be the other big lie, the "wipe of the map" comment, the willful mistranslation that were not even his words? Well, his addition to the group certainly does not help those who think 9/11 is malarkey, because some people for some reason think they have some imaginary affinity with Israel I guess.

Google "dancing Israelis" if you haven't already. Youtube has some good stuff on it.

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The way the bldgs just crumpled straight down, involving broken structure on pretty much all floors, far away from the planes, and the residue of demolitions explosions found in the wreckage, hard to believe it was not planned.

As far as not finding "100 guys in caves" well that could be on purpose, but the caves the guys are in, the territory, tribes, national borders and numbers of caves/mts/ altituede, not nec. easy.

Don&t trust the govt.

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Once again, Ahmadinejad is spot-on. Its so obvious that the official version is a big lie. I have trouble believing that some still think it was carried out by 19 guys with box-cutters, lead by some guy in a cave in Afghanistan.

Its also amazing how different the 911 investigation is from the recent Dubai murder, its almost like they did not want to catch the alleged hijackers.

Anyway, who and why is pretty much known (see Chris Bollyn and Ry Dawson), but I don't expect the US government to do anything about it. Hopefully, more and more people will wake up and start demanding answers.

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HeyLars,

Good advice. People should Google 'dancing Israelis' so that they can see no one was 'dancing' and that the whole thing basically did not happen as some conspiracy fanatics would like to say. Thanks for that!

Oh and Ahmadinejad never ever said he was misquoted by Iran's own Islamic Republic News Agency about what he said in 2005.

sabiwabi,

The difference between 9/11 and the Dubai investigation? Easy, as compared with the 9/11 in which there is plenty of evidence pointing to , so far Dubai police have NOTHING specifically and conclusively to show Israel/Mossad was involved at all. Yet, you seem to cling to that.

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Sorry: Easy, as compared with the 9/11 in which there is plenty of evidence pointing to Al Quaeda, so far Dubai police have NOTHING specifically and conclusively to show Israel/Mossad was involved at all. Yet, you seem to cling to that.

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sabiwabi, I do believe it was carried out by a handful of suicidal pilots in the know, and guys with boxcutters who probably did not know the end plan. Until 9/11 hijackers were not suicidal so I would have cooperated as a passanger and the non-pilot hijackers would have been willing to go along. What I think is that information on the planners was held back within the FBI. What is amazing is not that the hijackers did this, but that they could be allowed to do it, that the FBI could have possibly fumbled so badly. Seems odd.

Lowly, the towers collapsed under their own tremendous weight. There was no place for them to go but down. It would be different if they were knocked over by the impact of the planes; they were not. If you want something to be suspicious about, I recommend looking closer at the crash at the Pentagon.

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Oh and Ahmadinejad never ever said he was misquoted by Iran's own Islamic Republic News Agency about what he said in 2005.

Oh please; we went over that many times. His government and the man himself clearly explained his words were misquoted.

Anyway, in Dubai, they were able to follow the 26 or so assassins at many different stages. While for 911, we have a single picture of Atta taken from a previous connecting flight (and even that has some inconsistencies). The government's main piece of evidence is a video of some guy disguised as OBL. It clearly is not Al Qaeda that is behind 9/11; there is way too much evidence pointing to a CIA-Mossad operation.

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Ahmadinejad has never ever said he was misquoted. Never, ever. If he has specifically said he was misquoted and he did not mean that he wanted to see Israel disappear and if you can further show that last month and the month before Ayatollah Khamanei did not specifically call on other Muslim countries to help Israel into oblivion, I would love to see it.

The Dubai police have NOTHING linking Israel so far. Zero, Zilch, Nada, Nanimonai.On the other hand, al-Quaeda themselves have admitted to being involved in 911. Add to that that the al-Quaeda protectors, the Taliban, also have a nasty habit of blowing up and killing civilians and it is patently obvious al-Quaeda was behind 911 and that the Taliban cheered them on.

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Just to be clear: There is tons of evidence pointing to al-Quaeda and zero evidence pointing to CIA/Mossad.

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kinniku, Ahmadinjad was not misquoted. You are correct. What happened is that his words were mistranslated while he was quoting the Ayatollah. Besides, it does not matter whether he himself claims to have been misquoted, mistranslated or not. It changes nothing of the fact that he was in fact mistranslated. I think you have just created your own personal logical fallacy with that; "A mistake is not denied, therefore its not a mistake". Congratulations. I shall call it the kinniku fallacy.

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HeyLars,

Of course, it matters that Ahmadinejad has declined on several occasions to distance himself from his own remarks when directly questioned about the quote. He has never tried to specifically clear up what he said in the five or so years since it was said. Add to that that Khamenei has repeated similar specific remarks just last month and the month before and the result is that Ahmadinejad meant to say what he was quoted as saying.

Funny you can't point to him saying he was mistranslated or misquoted even once in the past five years since his comments started a whirlwind of speculation. I guess that is because he does not wish anyone to think he was misquoted or mistranslated.

We will probably see other people claim he did not say what is reported here in five years, too. That and his ridiculous Holocaust remarks. Yeah, poor guy. He and Khamenei are two misunderstood nice guys who mean absolutely no harm to Israel. That is why their country supports both Hamas and Hezbollah in their attempts to destroy Israel (you know like it says in their charters). It is because Iran loves peace and wants to make the Middle East warm and friendly...not.

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Interesting clips to think about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0eC3uns3pA&NR=1

Note that a Palestinian org was initially getting the blame.

And here are your dancing Israelis:

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html?q=fiveisraelis.html

Despite having a bomb in a van on 9/11, we don't hear abou them much. It was just a big coincidence. Sure.

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kinniku, maybe if he read your comments here at JT he would feel more compelled to explain himself to poor little you? He is IRANIAN, not American, so he probably does not think its such a big deal. I doubt he understands the significance of the bizarre English nuances. If he did, I doubt he would care. He does not love Israel like you. But your fallacy still stands. A mistranslation is a mistranslation. It does not need be categorically denied by anyone to still be a mistranslation. And you look silly trying to say otherwise.

Are you going to keep pushing this or are you going to keeping trying to justify the kinniku fallacy?

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Ahmadinejad is a political joke and jerk, but he is no different from his US counterparts, really.

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It seems some did not get the simple point I was trying to make when I wrote: in Dubai, they were able to follow the 26 or so assassins at many different stages. While for 911, we have a single picture of Atta taken from a previous connecting flight (and even that has some inconsistencies).

I find it hard to believe that the US would be technologically so far behind Dubai. They could not provide video or pictures of all 19 alleged hijackers (roughly half of which were later found alive!) boarding the actual planes.

Also, the FBI confiscates all videos that could have shown what hit the Pentagon and only show us a few pics that show nothing.

Moderator: Readers, the Dubai killing is not relevant to this discussion.

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Iran's alphabet soup president is nothing more than a terrorist himself. Hope he disappears soon...

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Wow, I thought some of the posters in this thread were actually intelligent, until I read what they had to say here. Rather surprised, guess people can fool you. They sound like rational intelligent people in one thread, then get them on a different topic, and they turn out to be raving lunatics. Rather like 'Achmed' in that respect.

Hehe. The tin foil hat brigade is out in force.

Good one.

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"he is no different from his US counterparts"

Are you equating Obama with Ahmadinejad?

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sabi: Shhhh, go back to sleep, everything is under control,...

yawn

we are the good guys, they are the bad guys....

Pretty much. Radical Islam is threat that needs to be eliminated.

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Man this guy must be smoking some good stuff. Do you think anybody else believes this crap?

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That guy Ahmadinejad has been watching movies like Zeitgeist and stuff

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How about a simple scientific test? A little project of gathering proof. Anything else is just pure unadulterated confidence in one side or another or your own imagination. Name the hijackers and what planes they were on. How many hijackers were there? Of course there is more to be answered, but if you are unwilling to take this first step, then why to do you believe what you beleive? Naturally, you can believe whatever and whoever you want, but are you comfortable crowing so loudly about who is right and who is crazy if you are you too lazy to take that first step?

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Ahmadinejad isn't about radical islam. He's just a stupid joke for the Iranian people. I'm sure everyone understands why there is a huge dissatisfaction with this poster boy for idiocy. Iranians are themselves embarrassed just like the Venezuelans are embarrassed of Hugo Chavez. They divide the world by inflaming others instead of using diplomacy. There are some things that just shouldn't be said out loud, ie. that almost 3000 dead people of 9/11 are a lie... that the holocaust never happened... that Iran isn't enriching uranium for the purpose of mass destruction. If Ahmadinejad learned to read instead of looking at the Sunday funnies, he would know what a fool he's been...

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HeyLars,

Do you actually read the links you provided? There were no explosives in the van. Also, there was no one dancing. I decided not to look further at your links after that. After all, your two big points were proven wrong by your own links.

Ahmadinejad was interviewed and questioned several times about his comments in 2005. Ahmadinejad has declined on those several occasions to distance himself from his own remarks when directly questioned about the quote. He has never tried to specifically clear up what he said in the five or so years since it was said. Add to that that Khamenei has repeated similar specific remarks just last month and the month before and the result is that Ahmadinejad meant to say what he was quoted as saying. This is not a matter of what I post. It is a matter of him not ever clarifying what he wrote.

Funny you can't point to him saying he was mistranslated or misquoted even once in the past five years since his comments started a whirlwind of speculation. I guess that is because he does not wish anyone to think he was misquoted or mistranslated.

We will probably see other people claim he did not say what is reported here in five years, too. That and his ridiculous Holocaust remarks. Yeah, poor guy. He and Khamenei are two misunderstood nice guys who mean absolutely no harm to Israel. That is why their country supports both Hamas and Hezbollah in their attempts to destroy Israel (you know like it says in their charters). It is because Iran loves peace and wants to make the Middle East warm and friendly...not.

It does not need be categorically denied by anyone to still be a mistranslation.

It does when there are questions about it and they are raised over and over again. Obviously Ahmadinejad prefers people to think he meant what his own government's new agency said he meant.

And you look silly trying to say otherwise.

Nah, what is silly is having the need to use about 10 different user names in the past year to peddle the same tired opinions. Keep forgetting your passwords?

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sabiwabi,

Hmmm...al-Quaeda says they did it. We know who was on the planes. We know they are dead. There is no proof of Israeli or Mossad involvement in this case.

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I tell you what. Why not listen to Lee H. Hamilton, the co-chairman of the 9/11 Commission, who was also a United States Representative and also now on the President's Homeland Security Advisory Council. He is not the only high level AMERICAN official talking about lies.

Tell me, do you see his tinfoil hat in this interview? Do you think he is in league with Ahmadinejad? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnNVfijCmSI

Tell me. I really want to know. I am not taking any posters side here. I am not with anyone. I am here totally alone so don't mix me with anyone. Tell me. Is Lee H. Hamilton on the same boat as Ahmadinejad?

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HeyLars,

To your challenge about what hijackers were on what planes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijackers_in_the_September_11_attacks#American_Airlines_Flight_11

American Airlines Flight 11 Hijackers: Mohamed Atta al Sayed (Egyptian), Waleed al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian), Wail al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian), Abdulaziz al-Omari (Saudi Arabian), Satam al-Suqami (Saudi Arabian).

United Airlines Flight 175 Hijackers: Marwan al-Shehhi (United Arab Emirates), Fayez Banihammad (United Arab Emirates), Mohand al-Shehri (Saudi Arabian), Hamza al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian), Ahmed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian).

American Airlines Flight 77 Hijackers: Hani Hanjour (Saudi Arabian), Khalid al-Mihdhar (Saudi Arabian), Majed Moqed (Saudi Arabian), Nawaf al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian), Salem al-Hazmi (Saudi Arabian).

United Airlines Flight 93 Hijackers: Ziad Jarrah (Lebanese), Ahmed al-Haznawi (Saudi Arabian), Ahmed al-Nami (Saudi Arabian), Saeed al-Ghamdi (Saudi Arabian).

Generally I don't like wiki, but there are footnotes to lead you to the sources of information. Maybe you should have actually looked into this a bit before commenting. Heh, maybe Ahadinejad should have too. Nah, he loves to shoot his mouth off as we can see in this article.

Again, we will probably have a bunch of tin-foil hat people saying how Ahmadinejad was misunderstood about this remark too. Heh, I guess they never learn.

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If all else fails kinniku, and it has, why not attack my character? Oh, I see you have!

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HeyLars,

You forgot to mention that your youtube has nothing to do with this article.

Moderator: All readers, please keep the discussion civil.

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Thank you for the list. Abdulaziz al-Omari was first reported to be Abdul Rahman al-Omari, but he was found alive. So we got a new name. That guy was also found alive, but said his passport was stolen. Which means your list has a mistake. We don't who that guy was! What we know is is that he was some guy using a fake passport and that is all! We don't know his name. We only know his stolen alias, Abdulaziz al-Omari.

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There were two people with the same name. This is not a new story. Funny you can't keep up.

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kinnuki, every link has something to do with this article. Ahmadinejad says the official version of the Sept. 11 attacks is a big lie, and a co-chairman of the 9/11 commission expresses how he was lied to. You don't see the connection? Or you don't want to see the connection?

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The actual hijacker Abdulaziz al-Omari was eventually confirmed by his family in Saudi Arabia. Funny you don't know this either.

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HeyLars,

This article is specifically about the 911, not Iraq or anything else. Thus, your links is not connected. It is as simple as that.

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HeyLars,

I gotta go. However, I have specifically responded to your points with counterpoints. You and Ahmadinejad have not made your cases sufficiently. We know how many people were killed on 911 and we know who they were. We know who the hijackers were and we have witnesses and family who confirm their IDs. Then we have people saying things that are patently untrue. Ahmadinejad is one of these people.

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Forget Ahmadinejad! Listen to Lee H. Hamilton and other AMERICANS. Ahmadinejad does not even amount to a bit player in all this. He is just repeating what reputable people have to say. Any parrot can do that!

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Hmmm...al-Quaeda says they did it.

Al qaeda? You mean like their spokeman Adam Pearlman, who is the grandson of Carl Pearlman, who was on the Board of Directors for the Anti Defamation League? Al qaeda is a CIA front.

kinniku, Since you like wikipedia, go to their "Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel" page for a long list of explanations of the mistranlation/misquote. He explained it himself on numerous occasions, as has his government. But I know you'll continue to deny it.

Continuing to deny the obvious simple points just makes it more difficult to believe you on the other, more debatable ones.

Even Francesco Cossiga, former president of Italy, declared that it was a CIA-Mossad operation. Just go to Chris Bollyn and/or Ry Dawson and you'll find some good explanations of what happened and who was behind it.

Nobody has given me a good explanation as to the lack of videos and pictures of the alleged hijackers boarding the planes, or of the alleged plane hitting the Pentagon.

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HeyLars,

Just popped back for a sec. Lee H. Hamilton never said the official version of 911 was a 'lie'. So, I am confused as to why you think he is relevant to this particular conversation.

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sabiwabi,

Just because Adam Yahiye Gadahn came from a partly Jewish family has nothing to do with anything. His grandmother was said to be the editor for some Christian newspaper. Does that mean a Christian church was involved in 911? Anyway, it still does not change the fact that al-Quaeda was involved in 911.

BTW, I wrote I don't like wiki so much. However, wiki still shows Ahmadinejad did not clarify his remarks. In fact, his government confirmed them by saying the same thing again last month and the month before. Oops! Guess they can't deny it or their support for Hamas and Hezbollah since they have admitted that too!

Even Francesco Cossiga

Is basically a nut that got to be president of Italy. Scary stuff. The guy actually claims al-Quaeda videos were produced in Italy on the orders of Silvio Berlusconi. So, using him to further your case just shows how little a case you have to present.

Anyway, Bollyn/Dawson/Cossiga are a bunch of nuts cut from the same cloth with a bunch of silly fantastic theories but no reality to back them up.

The hijackers have been confirmed by family and witnesses. Sorry, the tin-foil hat brigade loses again.

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Al qaeda is a CIA front.

I got my humor fix for the afternoon - thanks!!!

Who cares what this big little man Ahmadinejad says, anyway? This cat is so disrespected in his own countryu he had to massively rig an election to stay in power. Why do people give any notice to what he says? He's just the mideast Robert Mugabe.

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kinniku, I searched for that video after reading about his complaints in the book Without Precedent" http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=17909 , in which he asserts that he was lied to during the 9/11 investigation. I thought I had found a relevant video. In the video, he says he was lied to about events leading to the Iraq war. My bad. The interviewer asked him, as co-chairman of the 9/11 commission, about the discovery of hundreds of lies. That threw me.

But the video does give us insight into the character of Mr. Hamilton and I don't see his tin foil hat. It also goes to show just how many lies we labored under in the Bush years.

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Perhaps more people would take Ahmadinejad more seriously if he wasn't such a blathering idiot just about every other day on just about every other subject.

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BBC news reported that the 911 hijackers were stil alive and well.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1559151.stm The US did use 911 to justify pre-emptive attack on Iraq.

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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/05/terror/main1868087.shtml

Hamilton complains about a host of obstructions to the 9/11 commission from the Bush administration to the FAA to the Pentagon. Yeah, he doesn't use the word "lie". Does he have to? You think its just a hodgepodge collection of honest mistakes and miscommunications? Hamilton chooses his words carefully, so you might have to read between the lines a little bit here.

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kinniku said: The actual hijacker Abdulaziz al-Omari was eventually confirmed by his family in Saudi Arabia.

Sauce? None of that here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulaziz_al-Omari

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The US did use 911 to justify pre-emptive attack on Iraq.

Yes, along with a number of other lies (e.g., yellow cake).

kinniku,

the significant thing about Adam Pearlman (Al Qaeda's senior operative, cultural interpreter, spokesman, and media advisor) is not his Jewish background. Its the fact that he is the grandson of Carl Pearlman, who was on the Board of Directors for the Anti Defamation League? The ADL is not just any Jewish group.

Many people do think that Al qaeda is a CIA front.

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hard to believe the wtc bldgs falling straight down like that was b/c of the planes. Pretty clearly detonated. residue also found.

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kinniku,

Chris Bollyn and Ry Dawson are nuts just because they disagree with you. Instead of just calling them nuts, why don't you give specific reasons why you think they are nuts.

The hijackers have been confirmed by family and witnesses.

Thats a little hard to believe. Are you making stuff up again?

Anyway, I see there are still no explanations for the lack of videos and pictures of the alleged hijackers boarding the planes, or of the alleged plane hitting the Pentagon. BTW, who was in charge of security at those airports.

Or how about explanations for the nearly free-fall collapse of building 7 and the two towers. I wonder how Al qaeda put the explosives (including thermate) in all three buildings.

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Well, my friends, even though Mahmoud Ahmadinejiad has revealed himself to be a truther I still think Barack was right to say he would meet him without ANY preconditions, which is something bush,worst president ever, from the get-go,wouldn't do.

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Ya know, I like talking politics. I really do. Its fun to go back and forth with a lot of the lefties on this board. But reading through these messages, I just can't keep up. I don't have the energy to respond to the real loons. These Truthers. These conspiracy theorists are just so silly and out of whack, that its not even worth arguing with them. You could stick them in the building, before it came down, you could park them in the building across the way as the planes hit, and they'd still be insisting on their conspiracy theories. When nothing will convince them, is it even worth arguing with them about it? They're nuts. Achmed, Sabi, Lars, there just no getting through to these types of people.

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The US version is a lie- Bush should have done more, he had a intelligence brief week(s) the 9/11 tragedy. He could have done more.

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Molenir, if you think my position is a match for that of Sabi, then there clearly is no getting through to you.

And what would be proven by anyone being stuck in the WTC buildings before they came down or being parked across from them as the planes hit? Is anyone saying planes did not hit the towers? The places I would like to be is across from the Pentagon. I posted a link to a reporter on the scene remarking how no plane debris could be seen. This can be explained at least partly by the fact that the plane was traveling very fast, as they were in fact trying to kill themselves. But still. Nothing? I am not saying there was no plane, but it is odd. And large debris was not found in that field in Pennsylvania either and that is even stranger. Do you consider these things, or just dismiss them out of hand? How does that lend you integrity?

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This guy Ahmadinejad is really asking for a good old fashioned a...whipping by our ally Israel, who I am sure are more than ready and willing to shut him up or just blow him up, then of course by the USA. Since the Iranian regime now wants to fight a proxy war in Iraq against the USA, I guess we can think of a not so proxy war by letting Israel's wrath open up full throttle. Then if this idiot dictator ever wants to keep on spewing evil propaganda, well he will understand that everything that goes around comes around, and that country will be put back in it's proper place before they can get their hands on nuclear weapons. So just imagine if this idiot dictator wants to say Sept.11 was a big lie, next he will be saying all the NAZI mass murders of Jews, Gypsies, JWs etc..was also just one big lie??

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He's right, 911 is a big lie.

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Truthers are on the left side of the political spectrum. Makes sense why liberals have such an intense man crush on Ahmadinejad.

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next he will be saying all the NAZI mass murders of Jews, Gypsies, JWs etc..was also just one big lie??

he already did that

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Molenir at 05:41 PM JST - 7th March

elbudamexicano at 07:55 PM JST - 7th March

I was reading through the posts thinking that poor Kinniku was having a hard time dealing with people who hadn’t or don’t take their meds and I was going to join in, but then came across your posts which said all that really needed to be said. Thank you both. Ahmadinejad is loathed by his own people, many who will not go back to Iran while he is even alive. Two or three weeks ago I got into a discussion with an Iranian friend in a bar (not a good Muslim). He is doing all he can to raise money to get his family out of that country before (by his reasoning) that lunatic starts getting people killed. Whatever the conspiracy nuts might like to believe and write about it’s the real people who have been there and know first hand that are the people that are worth listening to. Kinniku, you must have some hard solid walls in your house, would it not be better for your head if you banged it on those walls rather than try to talk sense into the equally solid walls you sadly find lurking in wait on this site?

Today I am really amaze at some of what has been written here. I nolonger feel safe walking the streets knowing that there are such people out there. Let us just hope they really are otaku and never go out.

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Ahmenijad is nothing but a non internet using troll. Same goes with a couple of others here chuckle but unfortunately they have access. Well everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Trying to convince people that their thinking is the truth when they have no hard core facts of their own is just wrong though. Speculation is not truth, and convincing yourself that your speculation is truth without having the means to absolutely prove it is plain ignorance. The only people that can prove anything are the ones that either initiated 9/11 and the ones that carried it out. Since no one here is them or psychic its best to just keep bad speculation to yourselves.

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bah I'm tired lol mis-spelled his name.

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Truthers are on the left side of the political spectrum. Makes sense why liberals have such an intense man crush on Ahmadinejad.

I don't think conspiracy theorists have a spectrum. Oh the birthers might generally be on the right, and Truthers on the left, but conspiracy theorists are on both sides, some believe both, so you can't really generalize.

bah I'm tired lol mis-spelled his name.

I just call him Achmed. A lot simpler then trying to properly spell the nutcases name. The thing about this situation, is that it shows just how screwed up Iran really is. When a man like this can manage to become the President, when the powers that be, converge to twist the results of an election, in order to allow someone like this to remain in power...

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Whether or not they are "lies" or mistakes, the "official version" of what happened on that fateful day has some holes in it. Sen. Dayton pointed that out when they presented the 9/11 commission presented their findings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNQ-HywKG5Q

Ignore the commentary and concentrate on Sen. Dayton's words.

Taka

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It seems Ahmadinejad does not have a TV, radio or any access whatsoever to any news outlet:

From the article:

He has also questioned the Sept 11 death toll of around 3,000, claiming the Americans never published the victims’ names.

On the 2007 anniversary of the attacks, the names of 2,750 victims killed in New York were read aloud at a memorial ceremony.

Basically, it seems that if we start with the correct premise that Ahmadinejad does not seem to have any reasonable access to international information that would allow him to know the simple fact that the names of the victims has been known and published for years (it is not exactly a matter of national secrecy), it stands to reason that he doesn't know what he is talking about in other aspects of his case.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims.section.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,62151,00.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2003-09-09-wtc-official-list_x.htm

In fact, it took less than a few seconds to find the above list.

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Hi It bugs me and gets me very upset when people think they know what happenned on 9/11 and then say it wasn't a plane that hit the Pentagon - The reason I get so upset is because a close friend of mine died in that plane all because some religious nuts thought they could bring the USA on it's knees, and to tell you the truth these crazy people who deny that it was a plane are doing exactly what those religious nuts want us to do. It's a disgrace to this friend, to the people of the USA and to freedom when people try to persuade others that it was not a plane. It was a terrorist attack and it was a plane that flew into the Pentagon. People like you are on the wrong side of the fence. You might as well join Ahmadinejad and move out of this country and do us all a favour.

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Grafton,

Great points. As you wrote, Molenir and Elbudamexicano also correctly help put things in perspective.

Hurts a lot less than wall-banging, that's for sure.

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Simonpeter,

Allow me to offer my condolences. Hopefully it won't happen, but it is possible some on here may not only doubt what you wrote, but they may even say it did not happen. Please pay them no mind.

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HeyLars,

I will only deal with one point right now. You wrote:

And large debris was not found in that field in Pennsylvania either and that is even stranger.

However, the reality is that they found, amongst other lot of other debris from the plane, two turbine engines from the plane. Add to that the many witnesses seeing and hearing the actual plane crash.

That is why it is silly to ask us to explain all of your questions. It takes time to show you are mistaken. However, I have just shown you you were mistaken about a huge point. I wonder if that will stop you from believing conspiracy sites and actually check some stuff out yourself. Probably not, huh?

That's okay. It probably won't stop Ahamdinejad either even if he read this site.

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Ahmadinajad is an idiot, but when it comes to 9/11 and truth he has a point. I doubt we'll ever find out what really happened that day.

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I used to think it was solely Bin Ladins mob, but having read quite a lot about the matter and watchede some documentaries, i am not so sure.

I also sa the Dancing Israeli video and found that worrying and disturbing.

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Except there is no 'dancing Israeli' video. So, I wonder what exactly you found so disturbing?

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And this, coming from the same person who called "The Holocaust" a hoax. Him & the North Korean 'dear leader' are card carrying members of The Nincompoop Club.

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Sauce? None of that here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulaziz_al-Omari

Blind much?

"This individual was not the same person as the hijacker whose identity was later confirmed by Saudi government interviews with his family, according to the 9/11 Commission Report."

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I know what I saw and I sure as hell know it wasn't a controlled explosion or a rocket that hit the towers in New York. All I can say about the "Truthers" is that they have way to much time and nowhere near enough meds.

Ahmenijad is nothing but a non internet using troll.

Agreed.

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Ah yes, the dancing Israelis! If I remember correctly, they are six or so Mossad agents who were seen dressed up as Arabs celebrating the burning towers, and later caught driving in a van that tested positive for explosives.

Indeed disturbing, but there are many videos out there that are much more disturbing. Ry Dawson’s War by Deception (aka Magic Bunnies) is quite good at describing them .

I doubt we'll ever find out what really happened that day.

True, but we have a pretty good idea already what happened and who was behind it, and it clearly wasn’t some bearded guy in a cave in Afghanistan.

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You guys defending your truth, e.g. Kinniku, TheQuestion among others, are an example of internet-Ahmadinejads. Let the world know your opinion, and shut up. People will either agree with you or not. Stop trying to convince people of your opinion.

And you are out of focus, stop also talking about Ahmadinejad's personality. Talk about 9-11 facts, or the lack of them.

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I know what I saw and I sure as hell know it wasn't a controlled explosion or a rocket that hit the towers in New York.

Even the "conspiracy nuts" agree that planes hit the two towers, except a few disinfo nuts. Its the Pentagon that appears to have been hit by something else. The hole that was photographed immediately after the "crash" is way too small. Why don't they show us what hit the Pentagon, many video cameras captured the object, why don't they show it to us.

Simonpeter,

You owe it to your friend to find out what truly happened to him.

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Well, after actor Charlie Sheen made the comment about 9/11 looking like a "controlled demolition", I looked around. The most questionable aspect to 9/11 is the video where the buildings collapsed in a "free fall". Now, go ask ANYONE in construction how that happens - many will say, "I don't know".

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LostinNagoya,

We are all entitled to voice our opinions. If you would check, you would see both sides can be quite persistent in trying to make their case heard. ie, both sides are 'trying to convince people of their opinions'. That is called discussion. You are free to join in, but telling people to 'shut up' is certainly not the best way, IMHO.

Ahmadinejad is the story here. So, it is fair game to discuss the man. It is his opinions that are the focus of the article. The man has a history and it directly influences how one judges what he has to say.

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Again, there were no 'dancing Israelis'. There is no video of 'dancing Israelis'. There were no explosives in any van connected with Israelis. They had no Arab clothes whatsoever. Actually reading and watching the real news footage tells anyone interested these facts. However, conspiracy sites neglect to include these facts favoring hyperbole and blatant untruths.

They have a lot in common with Ahmadinejad.

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Yup, some of Ahmadine...whatever his name is, comments are real winners, huh? I can't wait to hear what his next comments about something are going to be.

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Looking at photographs of the wreckage at the Pentagon on September 11th, 2001, one can see the following:

Pieces of the plane fuselage.

Engine remains.

Wheel rims.

Landing gear.

Tire tread.

Doors.

Compressor rotor.

Clearly recognizable pieces of the plane with lettering on them.

Low pressure turbine, etc.

Why is it that people do not realize these things were seen and photgraphed? Why do people cling to such fantasies when the truth is right there?

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Now, go ask ANYONE in construction how that happens - many will say, "I don't know".

Heh, and many more will say they understand perfectly how it could happen.

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kinniku, Molenir, elbudamexicano, grafton, Simonpeter... 100% right.

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@ kinniku

Why is it that people do not realize these things were seen and photgraphed?

Some people just enjoy projecting their delusions.

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Actually reading and watching the real news footage tells anyone interested these facts.

Very true,I particularly those bits of news from the first day that were never heard or seen again, except from "conspiracy" videos (building 7 free-fall collapse).

I've seen the pictures at the Pentagon, as far as I have seen, they do not match watch you'd expect from the type of plane that is alleged to have crash there.

So why don't they show us a video of the plane hitting or approaching the Pentagon.

Again, there were no 'dancing Israelis'.

Yes, there certainly were. You can find some details here:

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html?q=fiveisraelis.html

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All video etc in question is readily available as are the context and explanations of the people involved. It is this context and these explanations that are sorely lacking on conspiracy sites.

Still nothing about 'dancing Israelis'. The words solely of a conspiracy site don't count. Not one witness talks about dancing Israelis. Not one of the actual quotes or links to actual news sites says anything about dancing Israelis. That is what I mean about these sites. Out of context and outright misrepresentations of events and witnesses.

As to the Pentagon, asked and answered, the was in fact plenty of recognizable debree and witnesses to the crash that saw the plane coming in and crashing. There is not always a video of every event that happens in the world. That doesn't mean it did not happen.

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Sorry: debree=debris

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kinniku, saw the dancing Israelis on www.bilderberg.com

There are links to 9/11 and they can be seen jumping and laughing as the towers burn.

I still believe Osama and his mates were behind it, but i feel Israel/Mossad may have had a hand in the dasterdly deed.

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stevecpfc,

Unsurprisingly, your link does not seem to work. BTW, jumping and laughing:

1) Does not equal "dancing", which is the constant claim that is never mentioned by any witness whatsoever.

2) Does not mean involvement in anything. People react in different ways. Palestinians also jumped and laughed. That does not mean Palestinians were involved. (BTW, don't bother trying to say they were celebrating a soccer game. They were not. That story has been well de-bunked as an urban legend.)

3) Since I can't see your site (wrong URL? Doesn't really exist?), I don't know, however are you saying you can actually see Israelis on the video? That would be a first. Please give us a direct link to the videos.

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Just some insider info - the initial terrorist hit was to occur on the US West Coast (multiple targets along the coast). Those jerks were nailed, and it was very strange for 9/11 to occur since 1999 - the FBI was on heightened alert. The FBI is on record to state that terrorist threats possibilities on the US East Coast were hampered for some unknown reason(s).

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kinniku, sorry; www.bilderberg.org

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stevecpfc,

Thanks. However, still not a big help. Can't find the video you say is there. Could you provide a direct URL? I would love to see these laughing and jumping Israelis.

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I am not surprised that on the subject of 9-11 large portions of the left wing in America, Europe and elsewhere side with the leader of a theocratic totalitarian regime that murders its own citizens when they gather peacefully to protest and is the largest state sponsor of terror done in the name of Islam.

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kin niku, check the site, i am not an internet guide. you can find a lot of info regarding 9/11 there.

9/11 is a sore topi, granted. But i loked at the evidence and at tehe time believed the official line, since then info has appeared that made my doubt all the official facts.

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kinniku,

Dancing Israelis is not their official name, we're not talking about a professional dance group. Dancing Israelis is the name people use to refer to them. Early MSM reports refered to them as "cheering Israelis".

If you want to see how the "dancing Israelis" (aka cheering Israelis or jumping and laughing Israelis) are connected with 9/11, just go here:

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html?q=fiveisraelis.html

There is not always a video of every event that happens in the world. That doesn't mean it did not happen.

This is the Pentagon, we are talking about, not just any ordinary building. Countless videos were confiscated from nearby businesses. I am sure that whatever hit the Pentagon was captured on film.

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stevecpfc,

I am getting the impression that you are again mistaken and that there is actually no such video whatsoever of Israelis dancing or anything else. Just as I said. Thank you for your confirmation.

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kinniku, that site provides plenty of evidnece to show the US anmd possibly Israeli involvement in 9/11. A terrible story that is hard to take for many, but the whole truth must be shown for the good of the world.

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sabiwabi,

Thank you for your confirmation. However, there are absolutely no videos of Israelis cheering, dancing, prancing, singing, chanting, jumping and/or laughing despite people constantly claiming there are and despite conspiracy sites constantly referring to them as the 'dancing Israelis'.

I have checked the site you mentioned and found it extremely misleading and inaccurate. As I wrote:

What some claim as jumping and laughing:

1) Does not equal "dancing", which is the constant claim that is never mentioned by any witness whatsoever.

2) Does not mean involvement in anything. People react in different ways. Palestinians also jumped and laughed. That does not mean Palestinians were involved. (BTW, don't bother trying to say they were celebrating a soccer game. They were not. That story has been well de-bunked as an urban legend.)

I am sure that whatever hit the Pentagon was captured on film.

Yes and photographed and shown on TV...again:

Looking at photographs of the wreckage at the Pentagon on September 11th, 2001, one can see the following:

Pieces of the plane fuselage.

Engine remains.

Wheel rims.

Landing gear.

Tire tread.

Doors.

Compressor rotor.

Clearly recognizable pieces of the plane with lettering on them.

Low pressure turbine, etc.

Why is it that people do not realize these things were seen and photgraphed? Why do people cling to such fantasies when the truth is right there?

Why is it that you need a video to confirm a plane hit it when witnesses saw and heard the plane and there were plane parts all over the place?

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stevecpfc,

You have a bad habit of claiming things that seem to be quite untrue. You said there was a video of Israelis laughing and jumping. There is none.

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kinniku, look and thou shalt see.

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I can't go into details, but the "cheering Israelis" is about possible actors in a play. The director and producer are someone else - to hamper and shut down valid FBI manhunts requires authority much higher than the FBI.

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stevecpfc,

It really is a simple request. Please cut and paste the direct URL for the video you claim exists that shows Israelis laughing and jumping as the towers burn. There seems to be no such video. If you cannot produce an URL, it seems you are incorrect again.

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kinniku, check this one out re 9/11; http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html?q=fiveisraelis.html

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stevecpfc,

Checked it. No video whatsoever showing Israelis laughing and jumping as the towers burn in the background. I guess you were mistaken again. Thanks for the confirmation.

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The "cheering Israelis" is a "red herring".

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"red herring"

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/red-herring.html

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I searched for the Dancing Israeli video.

Nothing. Just some women claiming she saw this take place. But videos of Palestinians spontaneously celebrating,dancing and ululating upon hearing of the murder and mayhem on 9-11 are still online...

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I have checked the site you mentioned and found it extremely misleading and inaccurate.

How could you possibly say that. It provides a list of police and MSM statements, with an explanation of how they are connected. Everyone can make their own conclusion:

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html?q=fiveisraelis.html

What some claim as jumping and laughing:

1) Does not equal "dancing", which is the constant claim that is never mentioned by any witness whatsoever.

Fine, if it will make you happy, call them jumpimg and laughing Israelis; but everyone else calls them "dancing Israelis". I can't believe I actually looked it up, but according to Merriam-Webster dance can be defined as "to move or seem to move up and down or about in a quick or lively manner", so I'll stick with dancing Israelis.

2) Does not mean involvement in anything.

If you connect all the dots in the above link...

Why is it that you need a video to confirm a plane hit it when witnesses saw and heard the plane and there were plane parts all over the place?

We also have witnesses that say something very different. And the parts do not correspond to those that we would expect from the kind of plane that is alleged to have hit the Pentagon.

I am sure that whatever hit the Pentagon was captured on film.

Yes and photographed and shown on TV...again:

No, they carefully selected a few shots that show nothing.

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The Palestinians were not celebrating the 911 attacks.

The dancing Israelis video is not a video of the Israelis dancing. Its a video of those Israelis who were seen dancing (aka jumping and laughing), celebrating, high-fiving, holding up their lighters while filming the burning towers and dressed up as Arabs. The videos show MSM reports of this, including their interview in Israel where they explain what they were doing there.

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Mahmoud Ahmadinejad? Send in the clowns...

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sabiwabi,

I can possibly say that I have checked the site you mentioned and found it extremely misleading and inaccurate because it is a mix of cut and spliced quotes meant to make people think a certain way as opposed to showing all the facts as they are known. To wit, there are no 'dancing Israelis' on that website.

Plus, there is no video of what you like to refer (but no witnesses do) as the dancing Israelis so that we can judge whether the term is accurate or not.

the parts do not correspond to those that we would expect from the kind of plane that is alleged to have hit the Pentagon.

They most certainly do match the plane that hit the Pentagon. Again, since you are only checking the kinds of sites that say what you want to hear, you only get that part of the story. The parts do match and are from the plane that hit the Pentagon.

No, they carefully selected a few shots that show nothing.

No, they show very specific recognizable parts of the very specific plane that hit the Pentagon. Why don't you know this?

The Palestinians were not celebrating the 911 attacks.

I already addressed this above. Yes, they were celebrating the 911 attacks. Anyone interested check out:

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/cnn.asp

Claim: CNN used old footage to fake images of 'Palestinians dancing in the street' after the terrorist attack on the USA.

Status: False

In other words, it is an urban legend that they weren't celebrating the attacks. In other words, they were doing that very thing.

So, sabiwabi, tell us where we can see the video you claim shows Israelis dancing (aka jumping and laughing), celebrating, high-fiving, holding up their lighters while filming the burning towers and dressed up as Arabs.

It does not exist. If you have access, show us where to see it.

The interview in Israel is accompanied by false subtitles. As such it is rather useless.

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kinniku, i find it so said that you dismiss iverwheliming evidence. Though your fervent belief in the good of Israel makes me realise why.

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stevecpfc,

I find it so sad that, yet again, you claim something exists and it absolutely seems to not exist. Israel has nothing to do with this discussion about the non-existence of a video of Israelis you claimed were video taped laughing and jumping in front of the burning toweres. You claimed a video existed. It does not. I asked you several times to point out where such a video is. You could not do so. You were mistaken.

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So, sabiwabi, tell us where we can see the video you claim shows Israelis dancing (aka jumping and laughing),...

Let me try another approach to explain this:

Five Israelis were seen dressed up as Arabs dancing, jumping, laughing, celebrating, high-fiving, holding up their lighters while filming the burning towers. This is not on the video.

An interview of the person who witnessed this and called the police is on a video.

The video also shows news reports about the police searching and finding these "cheering Israelis". The link I provided also provides police statements during and after the search.

The video also shows a clip of them in Israel describing what they were doing there.

So its a video of the dancing Israelis but its NOT a video of the Israelis dancing.

Just this is no big deal, but if you look at all the info on that link, it is quite damaging.

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Five Israelis were seen dressed up as Arabs dancing, jumping, laughing, celebrating, high-fiving, holding up their lighters while filming the burning towers.

So WHAT? You're forgetting it was 19 Arabs that flew the damn planes into the towers in the first place!

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You're forgetting it was 19 Arabs that flew the damn planes into the towers in the first place!

Or so they say. Funny that there are no images of them boarding the planes.

Its quite amazing what they were able to do with box-cutters, no?

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Funny that there are no images of them boarding the planes.

All major US networks broadcast video images of the same Saudi and Egyptian gentlemen going through security checks at Boston airport and haggling with the staff about the box-cutters. Their rented cars were found left behind in the parking lots, with well-thumbed Qurans therein. I concede this evidence is probably circumstantial, but I get the feeling you are not particularly inclined to accept any proof at all. So let's drop that entirely and get back to the Israelis. Even if they had, as you allege, "celebrated" the attacks, such tasteless behaviour would pale in contrast to the perpetrators of the crime itself, no? So I can't really understand your point of raising it.

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All major US networks broadcast video images of the same Saudi and Egyptian gentlemen going through security checks at Boston airport and haggling with the staff about the box-cutters.

You don't happen to have a link for that, do you?

If they had such images, I wonder why they would do such a big fuss over a single image of Atta at catching a previous connecting flight.

I can understand why the Israelis were celebrating, but they were doing so out in the open, in (or near) New York!!! And why the Arab-looking cloths?

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Palestinians were celebrating the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The evidence is overwhelming. But then so is the evidence that five Israelis were arrested by the FBI after celebrating in view of the burning WTC:

In September, 2001, The New York Times and Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported that four hours after the attack, the FBI arrested five Israelis (Paul Kurzberg, Sivan Kurzberg, Oded Ellner, Yaron Shmuel and Omer Gavriel Marmari) who had been filming the smoking skyline from the roof of a white van in the parking lot of an apartment building, for "puzzling behavior".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_advance-knowledge_debate

A sixth Israeli, Dominik Suter, fled back to Israel before he could be arrested. His name was put on a list of suspects related to the 9/11 terror attacks. Good old Dominik is now back in the U.S., apparently no longer a suspect. The FBI concluded that they had no foreknowledge of the attacks. What can I reasonably say against that? But those guys were LAUGHING and CELEBRATING on AMERICAN SOIL the DEATHS of nearly 3000 AMERICANS as they were DYING. What has Ahmadinejad done to make anyone hate him so? Is it just because he is Iranian that he is hated and because those high-fiving dudes partying while New York burns are Israeli that they are forgiven?

Those guys are real. Look them up. To heck with Ahmadinejad. Have a look at our Israeli "friends".

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I am no truther, and I don't much like their willingness to believe any wild theory that comes along. Ahmadinejad is a truther. So is Sabi. They are often wrong but not totally. But there is a group even worse. I call them "faithers". These are people who back up known liars like George Bush, Donald Rumsfeld and George Tenet, I guess because its easier to just believe they are telling the truth, "this time" or they might get unhinged from their seemingly secure little worlds. These "faithers" pat eachother on the back and say "tin foil hat" quick as you please. They join hands and pat eachother on the back, and this all passes for half the evidence with them! It must be true, because the faithers agree! Meanwhile, they post some retorts and random information with usually no source, pictures or video at all, the other half of their evidence. Words built on nothing. "Faithers" hardly bother to double check their facts. They barely question anything. Truthers says some crazy things. But faithers say things just as crazy, yet even more dangerous because they give powerful liars carte-blanche to start wars.

Molenir, elbudamexicano, and kinniku are hardcore faithers. No, they won't believe just anything. Only what their government mouthpieces tell them to believe, so long as it leaves them comfortable.

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HeyLars, every country is entitled to have its share of morons and louts, but Ahmadinejad is Iran's titular head of state, which is why he gets to perform for AP's audience.

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HeyLars,

The way I see it, truthers are generally people who realized that their governments and MSM lie to them. Its up to us to find the truth out there among all the disinfo. Yes, truthers do make mistakes, as there is much disinfo out there (e.g., Alex Jones).

I make mistakes in some small details (I don't memorize all the details for the sole purpose of "winning" a discussion), but overall I believe I have a good grasp on what is going on and it certainly does not correspond to the official version of events.

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sabiwabi,

I looked at all the info in that link and then I actually looked at real sources. There is nothing there that is damaging. There were no explosives, there were no Arab costumes and there was no one dancing, except for Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza where they were jumping for joy. In fact, four of the Israelis attempted to sue the US government for millions of dollars for being detained, hit and whatever while in custody by the police and US authorities.

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HeyLars,

Maybe you should learn to read before you speak. You were mistaken about the Wiki entry about the Saudi hijacker's family earlier and you did not fess up.

Have a look at our Israeli "friends".

Why? There is no law against being callous or an idiot. I know you have never been to the Middle East because you have no idea what Israelis and Palestinians look like. So, I will help you out. Middle Easterners see things very differently then people in the west like you do. They see much more violence first hand and as such are much more used to it. Did you know the Israelis only taped the second crash, not the first? Nah, you probably did not. Why bother checking things when blinding believing a website designed to guide into a certain direction is so much easier. Did you further know the Israelis were at work when the first plane hit and were acting like idiots and joking in front of their American co-workers. They then decided to get in a van and video tape the building as it burned, as many others did.

Again, there were no explosives in the van, zero, zilch, nada, nanimonai. There were no Arab costumes, zero, zilch, nada, nanimonai. There was also no dancing and no video of anyone dancing. There were just some Israelis acting like idiots. Sorry, but acting like an idiot, while idiotic is not illegal and it is certainly not what one would expect of people that were involved in what you are obviously trying to claim they were involved. It further does not make sense that they would then try to sue the US government.

Again, this is not about defending some government position. Heck, I don't even know the US government's position and I could not care less. It is about looking at things and deciding for myself what is real and what is not. This certainly cannot be done merely by looking at a site created and run by a conspiracy nut, nor can it be done by merely looking at wiki, which seems at times to be written by anyone who had a keyboard and an internet connection.

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Its up to us to find the truth out there among all the disinfo.

Honest question, then why it is that Truthers deseminate disinfo instead of the truth? The site you linked in one great example of half-truths and half-quotes out of context linked in one article in such a way to make things look completely different than the actual events. This is the very definition of disinformation.

These are not 'little mistakes'. Sites like the one you linked completely misrepresent what people have said and done. That is not what 'truth' means.

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First we must remember that in the mind of a fanatic, even conspiracy theory fanatics, there is no room for debate.

Secondly, the same people who gravitate towards the 9-11 was a lie bit are the same folks who do not believe that man has been to the moon, that big foot is alive and well, that Elvis is alive and kicking.

Some people will not believe anything and some people believe everything. Unfortunately for the vast majority of we have to listen to these tin-foil wearing nut-jobs as the rant on and on about reptilian overlords or what ever else their poor minds have focused on.

Simply put when one seeks to argue a point by using the argumentum ad ignorantiam they usually have an axe to grind and cannot be trusted.

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JHansen at 06:55 AM JST - 9th March

Have you ever been to a zoo and seen the “do not feed the animals” sign? Well the reason for these signs is that when people, in the past, did feed them they came to expect the extra treats and got ever so strange and difficult to handle when they didn’t get their treats. And just because something may not seem like a treat to you doesn’t mean it isn’t a treat to them. Think of it this way, if a person hasn’t been spoken to in months then somebody shouts an insult at them they will be happy to have been “spoken” to. You and I might not like such a thing, but they in their hunger for human contact will perceive anything as a treat. I have tried to warn Kinniku that he is endangering his health by getting too close and feeding the wild life, but he is so stubborn and believes he can make them understand the error of their ways. I fear that if he were given a direct line to Ahmadinejad he would do himself harm trying to communicate with a fruitcake. Think about it, if a friend of yours was spending a lot of time talking to fruitcakes wouldn’t you try to help him? Please, don’t feed the animals, it only encourages them to expect more and though you may not realise it now it is also bad for your mental health, it will lead to no good.

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I am perfectly willing to fess up when wrong kinniku, unlike you. This despite the fact that I won't go on and on about you being caught wrong, again, unlike you.

As far as the Saudi guy and his family, as I accused you, you made some comments but provided no proof, no links, no video. No nothing. Just your word. You forget, I am not a faither. It stands that the FBI somehow named the wrong guy at first. What? Was that a computer glitch? A clerical error that just happened to point to the wrong guy? Because I can't quite figure out how a guy boarded a plane and the records of the airline have the name of the wrong guy in there, or, somebody could have written what he saw on the screen in a mistake that formed the name of some other dude?! Then, the new name they give us is a guy who has flight training but, that's not him either. By some coincidence, its not the guy with the flight training, but someone else! C'mon kinniku, what is that guy's real name? Post a link instead of just asking us all to blindly believe your words.

Moderator: HeyLars and Kinniku, you are both to stop sniping at each other. Please focus your comments on what is in the story, not at each other.

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The conspiracy theories about 911 are essentially pointless. Right or wrong, the effects of 911 had deeply negative impact far beyond the tragic deaths of the people in the two towers.

911 enabled the Bush administration to enact policies that significantly undermined freedom in our country and gave unprecidented powers to government. This alone is a major blemish on American freedom.

Second 911 led to the illplanned start of the Afghan war. One that has far reaching dangers for Pakistan and India as well as for the US and our increasingly long committment there.

Third 911 led to the rationalization of the war in Iraq that has robbed our tax payers of money needed for everything from health care to education. Had we not been at war in Iraq, we may have had resources to help bail out home owners and consumers in the economic collapse.

We do know this. 911 happened and the fear it inspired was leveraged to justify a lot that in retrospect was opportunitistic and in violation of the public trust in government. Torture of prisoners, illegal long term imprisonment of captives, expanded government search and seizure rights, rendition, diminished privacy, an unwarranted war in Iraq and an incompetently run war in Afghanistan are all downstream negative effects.

Whether the fault of terrorists, or shadow individuals as the conspiracy people suggest, the outcome is the same. We have been greatly diminished by the events of 911 and must make sure that we do not allow ourselves to give in to such hysterical fear should we ever experience such an event in the future. We must never let fear drive our country insane again.

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HeyLars,

As far as the Saudi guy and his family, as I accused you, you made some comments but provided no proof, no links, no video. No nothing. Just your word.

Sigh...the 'comments' I made saying the family acknowledged the hijacker was a member of their family came from the wiki link you provided when you incorrectly said it did not say anything about the hijacker's family. I can't help it if you did not read the very link you provided.

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JHansen and Grafton,

Excellent points all around.

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Awsome, big up to Iran for saying what everybody knows ! They created a war against a non existant enemy that they can prolong forever, which will be continually used by them to do the things they wish to do. We are not free, our government are not democratic, Obama is not different to Bush, and the government does not control the economy.

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kinniku,

If you're not able to connect the dots in the link, too bad. I already wasted too much time with the "dancing" is not "jumping and laughing", I can't imagine how long it'll take to explain the significance of the facts outlined in that link. They were clearly trying to frame the Arabs for the attacks.

911 enabled the Bush administration to enact policies that significantly undermined freedom in our country and gave unprecidented powers to government.

Indeed, and Al Qaida is said to have attacked America because they "hate our freedom"!

JHansen and Grafton,Excellent points all around.

Yes, brilliant!

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It always makes me kind of sad to see how so many intelligent people are unable to see facts through the propaganda we are feed by the media. From the time we are born we are conditioned via our education and through TV to think how they want us to think. It seems very few people are able to see past this conditioning to see the bigger picture. By the time most people do it will probably be too late. Just look at the evidence that there is, and think. Thats all you have to do.

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diggerdog. But you can't really stand on such an argument. Afterall, how can you trust fringe media any more than mainstream? The expansion of news and media on the web has clouded the issue even more. For every truthful article there are a dozen written by people with their own agenda and propaganda. In the end, you cannot in all certainty, be sure that anything you read is true.

But you can use intelligent reasoning to see how events play out. I don't believe 911 was staged. But I do believe it was exploited after the fact by people who saw the opportunity to leverage it for changes they wanted. It is also pretty clear that things took place that would not have passed scruitiny under more calm circumstances.

So if you are looking for conspiracies they are probably not any there beyond some people trying to cover their behinds for failures in our systems. But if you are looking for issues of deep concern, you can clearly point to how fear was used to manipulate the American people after 911. This is the real lesson and worry about 911. And one we need to be sure not to repeat.

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You are half way there, the issue is problem reaction solution. The government wants to do something, so it creates a problem, then it presents the solution. That is what 9-11 was. Look at everything that has been done off of the back of terrorism like you mentioned. As for 9-11 being staged, you just have to read and look at the facts, then contrast this against the offical line. But the issue goes deeper as to who is behind it. For that you need to look to the Bilderberg Group and the Federal Reserve. These are not conspiracy theories but facts.

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But if you are looking for issues of deep concern, you can clearly point to how fear was used to manipulate the American people after 911

The invasion and regime change in Iraq took place a full year and a half after 9-11 and after US and coalition forces had invaded Afghanistan. Sorry, the supposedly insane fear was long gone by then. Support for the Iraq effort was quite high (72 percent in April 03) initially. Thereafter the left in America took every opportunity to retrofit bad news and shocking sectarian madness into a 'We told you so' lie.

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Afterall, how can you trust fringe media any more than mainstream?

We do know that MSM have a very clear agenda of spreading propaganda, they are connected via their board of directors to the MIC (military industrial complex). It is the MSM’s interest for us to go to war. So if you want to know what’s going on you need to look elsewhere.

Having said that, most of the alternative information is crap, much of it disinformation. For example, Alex Jones provides a lot of good information, but then throws in a bunch of nonsense about German death cult, luciferians, black pope…. Just focus on those few facts that you know are true and consider everything else with a grain of salt.

For example, we all agree that Bush was not whisked away immediately after the second plane hit the WTC.

You can clearly see building 7 suddenly free-fall.

The list does go on and on, some points are speculative, but many are hard facts.

Its by far not the first time the US would use a false flag to start a war, I wonder which one they will use to start one with Iran. I hope Ahmadinejad will help to wake people up before then.

Sorry, the supposedly insane fear was long gone by then.

What? It never went away, its still there!

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Here's the kicker:

Avoid conspiracy websites, they may ask a good question, but rarely the answer.

One needs to go to a construction demolition expert, and ask: if you were to re-enact the free fall of the Twin World Trade Center as seen on the video, how would you go about doing it? That answer will start a series of other questions.

I looked, and I don't want to go there.

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I looked, and I don't want to go there.

Frightening, isn't it!

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Kinniku, thank you for finally telling me where you got the information. Before you just said you were surprised I didn't know it, as if it were common knowledge. It does indeed say his identity was confirmed by his family at the end of the article. But it also says earlier on:

Little is known about al-Omari's life, and it is unclear whether some information refers to al-Omari or another person by that name. He has used birth dates of December 24, 1972 and May 28, 1979.

That is a bit conflicting if his family confirmed who he was, don't you think? I would think information would be overflowing about him if this were the case, but maybe its just me and my suspicious mind? The following link is probably more to your liking. It simply avoids the previous "mistakes" and questions all together. Its all made easy there and must be very comforting for a faither indeed. http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/profiles/abdul_aziz_al_omari.htm

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tkoind2 said: The conspiracy theories about 911 are essentially pointless.

That is where you are wrong. Questioning this stuff is extremely valuable. Without it, we all become faithers who trust the government completely. If more people looked at the past of the lies of powerful men whose lies sway governments and the people, if they realized where governments are fallible and how, well they would not have been so quick to throw their backing behind Bush on Afghanistan and Iraq as I wasn't. But as it was, they gave him full support like complete lemmings.

I only adds to the suspicion to point out that attacking Afghanistan was planned before September 11th. http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/nov2001/afgh-n20.shtml

Coincidence? Man, I have had enough of those to last me a lifetime!

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Indeed, the invasion of Afghanistan was planned long in advance. And certain people were also frothing at the mouth for years about attacking Iraq. But they needed a new Pearl Harbor, something to get the backing of the American people, and they sure got it.

BTW, I wonder where Ahmadinejad gets his information. Does he have a bunch of guys surfing the net?

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Kinniku, thank you for finally telling me where you got the information. Before you just said you were surprised I didn't know it, as if it were common knowledge.

Sigh. You are welcome. However, first, that is not where I got the information. As I said, I don't like wiki that much. Second, when I gave you the information, you said it was not true and used a wiki page to prove it saying it did not contain the information I provided. Therefore suggesting I must be incorrect.. You wrote 'sauce' in your response. The problem was the information I provided that you said was not on the wiki page you provided, was in fact on that very page. It seems to me you did not even read it before you tried to use it to incorrectly say I was incorrect.

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If you're not able to connect the dots in the link, too bad.

They are not 'dots' to anything. They are half-truths and cut and pastes to make the reader think one way when the facts actually point in another direction.

One example, your conspiracy site mentions a New Jersey paper saying explosives were found in a van, but neglects to mentions that 8 minutes later that same newspaper issued an update that the police confirmed there were no explosives in the van. Again, this is selecting information to make people see something in a way that does not reflect reality. That maybe ok for some, it sure is not for me.

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BTW, I wonder where Ahmadinejad gets his information.

Voices in his head.

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Was there a bigger mediawhore than Ahmadinejad.

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Funny to see truthers making themselves dumber than they think Ahmadinejad is.

He may be wrong, or right. We'll probably never know. What he said is just his opinion, which by the way, is shared by a vast majority (which doesn't make it valid, btw). I agree with him: it was all a big lie - not the fact that the towers went down, but the fact that those men were behind 911. There's something bigger behind that catastrophe.

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@LostinNagoya "What he said is just his opinion, which by the way, is shared by a vast majority"

could you please direct me to where you got the facts that a "vast majority" of people agree with you and Ahmadinejad? Or was this in face...just another opinion. If it is fact please back it up with proof...if it is opinion...please don't state it as fact.

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To LostinNagoya:

"What he said is just his opinion, which by the way, is shared by a vast majority (which doesn't make it valid, btw)."

After everything is said and done, the people behind 9/11 were/are "mentally challenged".

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Believers in these conspiracy theories are a sad lot. This conclusion from a report of conspiracy theorists about sums it up "It seems likely that conspiratorial beliefs serve a similar psychological function to superstitious, paranormal and, more controversially, religious beliefs, as they help some people to gain a sense of control over an unpredictable world,”

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To UnagiDon:

9/11 was a conspiracy, the question is, "who was involved and why it occurred.

Definition of "conspiracy".

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conspiracy?jss=0

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9/11 was a conspiracy, the question is, "who was involved and why it occurred.

Certain people wanted to control Iraq and Afghanistan. 911 "allowed" them to invade those 2 countries. Now they surround Iran, and Ahmadinejad is worried. Strange how they entered Afghanistan to get Osama, but they very quickly stopped worrying about him.

Long before 9/11, neocons wrote about what they wanted to do and they specifically stated that they needed a Pearl Harbor-type event. These were the same people behind all the false evidence and disinformation that lead to the attack of Iraq.

One thing I found strange from the very begining was the following:

If the US was truly taken by surprise on 9/11, why in the world did Bush remain seated after learning the second plane hit the WTC. He sat there in a classroom with little children. His location was known, how did Bush (and those guarding him) know that the "terrorists" did not also have something planned for him. He should have been whisked out of there immediately.

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kinniku, if all else fails, split some hairs. I said you were incorrect. Sorry, buddy, mistakes happen and I explained why it happened. Now, do you have an opinion on the conflict of information with some sources saying we know exactly who he and his family is and other saying we are not sure of so much of the information about him? Are you just going to sidestep this? And remember, this is just one guy, the third on the list, and was examining them in order. 16 more to go!

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HeyLars,

It is not a matter of splitting hairs. You claimed to prove I was incorrect using a wikipedia page that, in fact, showed I was correct. This shows you did not read the very page you claimed to have read.

I have already said that the man had the same name as another person and that was the source of the mixup. Do you have a problem with the names the FBI listed as of September 27th, 2001? You see, there have been no mistaken identities since then and the FBI apologized before that for the mistaken identity in question.

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To SabiWabi:

There is much more to this than what you are stating:

"Certain people wanted to control Iraq and Afghanistan. 911 "allowed" them to invade those 2 countries. Now they surround Iran, and Ahmadinejad is worried. Strange how they entered Afghanistan to get Osama, but they very quickly stopped worrying about him."

Hint: You have to understand "Grand Strategy", and know all implications involved w/ "the Arc of Instability".

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Anyone with half a brain can see the towers were blown up. just look at the physical trajectories; horizontal and upwards - impossible from gravity driven collapse. And you honestly believe the average convenience store has better surveillance than the pentagon? Why were all the videos of the plane rounded up immediately and never released? Clearly a passenger jet did not hit the pentagon.

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Anyone with half a brain can see the towers were blown up. just look at the physical trajectories;

Indeed, and one thing I find very convincing is looking at pictures of the WTC while it was being built, where you can see how massive the core columns were. The computer models they use to illustrate the pancake theory completely ignores these columns.

Why were all the videos of the plane rounded up immediately and never released?

Yeah, they just release a few shots that show nothing.

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There is much more to this than what you are stating:

You mean controlling more of the world's oil and destroying any regime that does not bow down to the powers that be?

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BTW, I wonder where Ahmadinejad gets his information.

Here: http://www.ae911truth.org/

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What Ahmadinejad forgot to mention was that the Freemasons, the Bavarian Illuminati and the Elders of Zion were all in on it as well.

When something this big goes down you can sure those guys won't stand for being left out of it.

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could you please direct me to where you got the facts that a "vast majority" of people agree with you and Ahmadinejad?

I got the fact from here, the JT forum. Btw, a yes/no survey among us would be great about this topic. Fake profiles need not vote, please.

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"Certain people wanted to control Iraq and Afghanistan. 911 "allowed" them to invade those 2 countries.

Why can't conspiracy theorists ever name the people they are certain have hoodwinked vast portions of 'the sheeple' ?

Because when it comes time to pull back the curtain they admit they can't agree who is supposedly behind it, pulling the strings and levers and listening in from Jerusalem or Langley or Zurich or wherever...

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Why can't conspiracy theorists ever name the people they are certain have hoodwinked vast portions of 'the sheeple' ?

If you really want to know who is behind it, check out the writings of Ry Dawson and Chris Bollyn. They provide many specific names. If these two guys came up with so much information, I wonder what Ahmadinejad's researchers came up with, they're probably a well funded team.

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Let's cut to the chase, Dawson and Bollyn blame Israel and Jews controlling western governments and media. Blah, blah, blah, etc.

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kinniku,

Indeed many of those they accuse are Jewish and/or Israeli; so that makes them wrong? Only those who accuse Muslims are correct? What kind of reasoning is that? Specifically, what incorrect claims have they made?

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It makes it wrong when just the fact that people are Israeli or Jewish seems to be the reason and focus of the accusations.

I appreciate your admitting my accessment was correct though.

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A good hint that you are on the wrong path is when sites like Stormfront and David Duke share your views and follow the reasoning of people like Dawson and Bollyn.

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Oh please, Ry Dawson and Chris Bollyn back up everything they write. Your accusations of anti-semitism only expose the emptiness of your views.

Truth is, real "truthers" avoid sites like Stormfront and Duke, I wouldn't be surprised if they are funded by the ADL.

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Ummm...you really need to fact check more than you do. That mere fact that you still tried to pawn the urban legend that the Palestinians were not dancing in the streets and celebrating 911 when they actually were shows how out of touch you are on issues. Dawson and Bollyn 'back up' everything they write with innuendo and racist undertones. Hardly the area of academia.

Duke was very graciously invited to Ahmadinejad's Holocaust Denial Love-in Festival a couple of years back. Both his site and Stormfront mirror almost to the very word what 'real truthers' say and write.

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Dawson and Bollyn 'back up' everything they write with innuendo and racist undertones.

How so. Funny thing is that in Ry Dawson's video series, at the very beginning, he talks about that kind of person. If I remember correctly, he calls them kooks.

Duke was very graciously invited to Ahmadinejad's Holocaust Denial Love-in Festival a couple of years back. Both his site and Stormfront mirror almost to the very word what 'real truthers' say and write.

So some guys paste the info on those sites, big deal. You could say the same about the Japan Today forum. Why do you continue to make this association? Do you really have no convincing argument that you have to resort to this tactic?

You actually think its normal for those 3 tall and solid buildings to crumble the way they did? Its very normal for Ahmadinejad to be very skeptical, considering they used 9/11 as an excuse to surround his country.

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sabiwabi,

You use this tactic all the time. You randomly associate people with unrelated things merely because they (or someone in their family) support Israel or because they are Jewish and you assume they are guilty of something simply by association with absolutely no specific proof whatsoever. However, in my case, I am specifically talking about public opinions of the people concerned and the content therein and not merely associations with groups.

What I find shocking and strange is not that David Duke and Stormfront, cut and paste things as you put it, it is the opinions on those sites that are almost word for word the same as much of what you write in addition to what Dawson and Bollyn write. This is not a tactic. It is merely an observation. I further observe that Ahmadinejad obviously approves of David Duke's thinking because he graciously invited David Duke to the Iranian Holocaust Denial Love-in Festival a couple of years back. Both the opinions on Duke's site and Stormfront mirror almost to the very word what 'real truthers' say and write.

I also find it fascinating that David Duke, Ahmadinejad, Stormfront and yourself all obsess about Jews in the media and in governments and create conspiracies that almost exclusively revolve around Jews and Israel. Sorry, this is not a commenting tactic on my part. It is an observation of not only your posting habits, but the public opinions of the people about whom we have been discussing. A big hint is people linking: The Holocaust (and generally suggesting it did not happen or that no one was gassed or whatever), Jews and how many are in the media, governments, companies, banks or whatever, and now with 911. Sorry, but it is obvious when people constantly attempt to artificially link all these things together, then it is perfectly clear that there is more to their agenda than 'truth'.

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The problem the US has is NOT Iran's Ahmadinejad opinion on 9/11, but the intelligence, military, industrial and sophisticated high rise constructors through out the world who look at the details of 9/11. Sooooooo many top experts mumbling, "who are you kidding?". The video of the Twin WTC is so full of contradictions, it is a joke.

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I also find it fascinating that David Duke, Ahmadinejad, Stormfront and yourself all obsess about Jews...

No! Stormfront and Duke, who are probably supported by the ADL, obsess about Jews. Actually, you seem to have an obsession about them too, you ALWAYS bring it up.

I do not obsess about Jews, I just hate evil killers and criminals. If 3000 innocent civilians are murdered in New York or 1400 in Gaza, I get upset. I think its a perfectly normal reaction.

I believe Ahmadinejad is also not obsessed about Jews, he too seems to hate evil killers and criminals.

But its clear you are using the antisemite card to deflect from the real issue. Anyone with a functional brain who looks at the THREE (3) tall buildings crumble will understand that 9/11 was a conspiracy; it IS a big lie.

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See, this is exactly to what I was referring. Here you are arbitrarily linking the ADL with David Duke, who was very graciously invited to Ahmadinejad's Holocaust Denial Love-in Festival a couple of years back, and Stormfront. You see, David Duke is an actual person with actual public opinions that can be read and analysed and Stormfront has opinions by actual people that can be analysed. These opinions closely match those of Ahamdinejad, Bollyn, Dawson and your posts here on JT.

You randomly associate people with unrelated things merely because they (or someone in their family) support Israel or because they are Jewish and you assume they are guilty of something simply by association with absolutely no specific proof whatsoever. However, in my case, I am specifically talking about public opinions of the people concerned and the content therein and not merely associations with groups.

I also find it fascinating that Dawson, Bollyn David Duke, Ahmadinejad, Stormfront and yourself all obsess about Jews in the media and in governments and create conspiracies that almost exclusively revolve around Jews and Israel. Sorry, this is not a commenting tactic on my part. It is an observation of not only your posting habits, but the public opinions of the people about whom we have been discussing. A big hint is people linking: The Holocaust (and generally suggesting it did not happen or that no one was gassed or whatever), Jews and how many are in the media, governments, companies, banks or whatever, and now with 911. Sorry, but it is obvious when people constantly attempt to artificially link all these things together, then it is perfectly clear that there is more to their agenda than 'truth'.

Look right above. You brought the ADL into this conversation, not I. In addition, That mere fact that you still tried to pawn the urban legend that the Palestinians were not dancing in the streets and celebrating 911 when they actually were shows how out of touch you are on issues. I am curious, even being told it is not true, do you plan to attempt to bring it up again I wonder?

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The "cheering Israelis" is a minor part to the events on 9/11. At most, they were ordered to place explosives, but they were the "paid/ordered servants to a major operation". Also, to be so obvious is a sign of "deception" due to the nature of their situation.

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Radical islamists and truthers.... a happy family.

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The "cheering Israelis" is a minor part to the events on 9/11.

The cheering Israelis, together with the other white vans, seems to have been meant to frame Arabs. But it is indeed rather minor if you compare it to the actual collapsing towers and building 7, plus many other details. It can't possibly be 19 Arabs with box-cutters that did this.

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sabiwabi:

" It can't possibly be 19 Arabs with box-cutters that did this. "

And why not? A box cutter used as a tool to commandeer 300 tons of steel and jet fuel can do a lot of things, as we have seen.

By the way, here is a question that you and other truthers could answer: If 9/11 was a gigantic government/Jewish/illuminati/CIA/whatever conspiracy, what about the previous muslim attempt to blow the Twin Towers in 1993? That was a conspiracy too? How about the Cole bombing? The embassy bombings in Nairobi and Daressalam? The Tripolis barrack bombings? All a conspiracy too?

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No one knows, WilliB, only Bush and his associates could answer that.

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LostinNagoya:

" only Bush and his associates could answer that. "

It seems to me that if "Bush and his associates" orchestrated all world-wide islamic terrorism, it should have stopped by now.

Strangely, it didn´t. How do our truther friends explain that?

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what about the previous muslim attempt to blow the Twin Towers in 1993?

Interesting that you would bring that up. Have a close look at it, and you'll be surprised at what you find. And I think the Tripoli bombing might be Mossad.

But hey, that's diverting from the main question. Even if they could commandeer some jets, they are meant to be light so they don't have much steel (aluminum, perhaps?), and the jet fuel cannot melt the steel-framed buildings.

So even if their silly pancake theory was possible, the buildings would not collapse the way the have. Especially if you consider the massive central columns. Look at pictures taken as the towers were being built, they are massive. There is no way they could have collapse in almost free-fall, almost completely vertically. And building 7 collapsed essentially in free fall and vertically. They were controlled demolition.

So tell me, was the company that had the contract for upgrading the elevators months before 9/11 an Al Qaida front company? And were their employees Muslims?

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No one knows, WilliB, only Bush and his associates could answer that.

But of course, 9-11 is linked to Elvis, and Elvis to the Apollo landings...

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Have a close look at it, and you'll be surprised at what you find. And I think the Tripoli bombing might be Mossad.

Yes, and that bad hamburger you got the other day is Mossad fault too. In fact, let's start blaming bad weather on Mossad while we are at it.

Why not blame Mossad for faked moon landings, global warming theories and that hangnail you get five years ago, too.

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Yes, and that bad hamburger you got the other day is Mossad fault too

If it's Mos Burger, I might just believe it...

Takes cover while the crowd groans

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I believe there was a Mossad agent in my neighborhood in the 1990's. They are incredibly dedicated to their missions - no impromptu cheering.

After it is said and done, there is some sort of symbiotic relation between Mossad and the US Govt. What role they played can only answered by those in the "know". It is up to US citizens to determine who was behind 9/11.

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It is up to US citizens to determine who was behind 9/11.

They should be demanding it. But who will investigate? Who doesn't have blood on their hands, or other blackmailable skeleton in their closet?

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Let's just say that any group that can shut down the FBI who were tracking the 19 hijackers would be very hard to investigate. Even if they tried, they would not survive.

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But who will investigate?

I thought you said Ahmadinejad had his crack internet genii on the case? Between them and the voices in his head, I am sure all will be revealed shortly.

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The only way to investigate 9/11 is to emulate the Watergate proceedings, w/ a fully independent group w/ full command of all intelligence authority.

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Nah. Ahmadinejad's on the case. All is well. Full steam ahead with the hyperbole.

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The problem with an independent investigation is there will always be people, like Ahmadinejad, jumping up and down (or 'dancing' as some people refer to it) over anyone involved in the investigation who happened to eat a kosher pickle 25 years ago.

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Even if they tried, they would not survive.

I very much agree. The bad guys while not go down peacefully. They have immense power, they will do whatever it takes to prevent an honest, in depth investigation. And if ever one would still manage to come about, things would get very ugly; worst than what happened in the 1960's.

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Any investigation done with meet with people who will claim the investigation is not valid. That is the real problem here. People can no longer trust each other. This says more about how our society has come to evolve that it does about reaction to this one event in history.

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sabiwabi:

" Interesting that you would bring that up. Have a close look at it, and you'll be surprised at what you find. And I think the Tripoli bombing might be Mossad. "

Why am I not surprised. So, in the eyes of the truthers, the entire islamic Jihad is a Jewish conspiracy? All 14,000 acts of islamic jihadist terrorism since 9/11 (and that is a random starting point) were faked by Jews?

Tell us more.

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shinjukuboy:

" Well, lots of Americans believe this. As dammit says, What's new? It just means that Ahmadinejad has been reading up on US conspiracy bloggers. "

Actually, it means that the Western (and Japanese) truthers are very useful fools for the islamist decection campaign (taqquiva

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When it's all said and done, it seems that all too many people are more comfortable diddling themselves with lurid fantasies than with confronting reality.

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Anyone who knows anything about anything know that 9/11 was an inside job. Must be hard for "patriotic Americans" to come to terms with this. First US bombed their own country and then bombed the wrong country as an excuse for bombing their own country. I am no fan of Iran but have to agree here that the official 9/11 story presented by the Bush administration is one of the funniest piece of propaganda presented in modern times of history. Ranks right up there with Holocaust denial.

Fisrt off. No steel framed building has ever collapsed due to fire before or after 9/11. On 9/11 3 buildings collapsed due to fire. One of the buildings did not even get hit by an airplane.

Right after NY and Washington DC was hit, no airplanes were allowed to fly out or in from USA, the only one who were allowed to fly was the bin Laden family.

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So, in the eyes of the truthers, the entire islamic Jihad is a Jewish conspiracy? All 14,000 acts of islamic jihadist terrorism since 9/11 (and that is a random starting point) were faked by Jews?

Many "truthers" believe it was mainly Americans and Israelis who carried out 9/11; we're not saying its a "Jewish conspiracy". You're trying to play the same Anti-semite card that kinniku plays, but its not working.

What's funny is that as you try to portray truthers as Antisemites who blame the Jews, you end up doing something that is just as bad as what you accuse us of doing when you mention "islamist decection campaign".

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All 14,000 acts of islamic jihadist terrorism since 9/11 (and that is a random starting point) were faked by Jews?

Not only is this an idiotic statement but this statement is false. The typical American propaganda war mongers like to say. Not all Muslims are terrorists but all terrorists are Muslims. This is a big fat lie, just as big as the 9/11 lie brought to you by the US propaganda machine. The truth of the matter is that .All Terrorists are Muslims…Except the 99.6% that Aren’t.

According to FBI records, 6% of terrorist attacks on U.S. soil from 1980 to 2005 were carried out by Islamic extremists. 7% were carried out by Jewish extremists.

http://www.fbi.gov/publications/terror/terrorism2002_2005.htm

To make things even more confusing. Speaking of 9/11. Osama bin Laden is not wanted for the terrorist attacks on 9/11 in New York.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

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shitamachipride:"Anyone who knows anything about anything know that 9/11 was an inside job. Must be hard for "patriotic Americans" to come to terms with this. "

Bingo! You could be the next Michael Moore, my fine friend.

"First US bombed their own country and then bombed the wrong country as an excuse for bombing their own country."

Double bingo!I think I see what you are saying.The US bombed the US and then they bombed Afghanistan and Iraq when they really should have been bombing the US.

Keep the faith mon ami, and keep fighting the good fight.It's not a conspiracy if THEY can't disprove it!

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I never liked Michael Moore much. Instead of saying Bingo, perhaps you can come with counter arguments? Just a friendly advice.

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shitamachipride:

" Anyone who knows anything about anything know that 9/11 was an inside job. "

LOL! I guess that underlines the old saying that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I agree there a plenty of people who know just enough to find their way to outlandish conspiracy sites.

What is sad is that Japanese politicians are among them.

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BTW, have any of the four black boxes ever been found? In Pennsylvania and at the Pentagon, those were basically regular crashes. And at least one passport of an alleged hijacker was recovered almost intact from a WTC crash, so I would expect all 4 black boxes to be found.

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Shitamachipride:

"All 14,000 acts of islamic jihadist terrorism since 9/11 (and that is a random starting point) were faked by Jews?"

Not only is this an idiotic statement but this statement is false.

It is not ridiculous, and not false. It cuts right to the center of the idiocy of the 9/11 troother conspiracy.

With the ongoing onslaught of islamic terrorist attacks, why would any Western government (even assuming it is criminial enough to murder 3000 of its own citizens) need to actually fake another one?

Unless you do believe that actually the whole islamic Jihad does not exist, but is faked by the Jews. Welcome to truther world...

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With the ongoing onslaught of islamic terrorist attacks

Indeed Muslims get BLAMED for many (all?) of these attacks. But I suspect the majority are not carried out by Muslims.

Unless you do believe that actually the whole islamic Jihad does not exist, but is faked by the Jews.

Much of it is faked, but would why you mention Jews? What do they have to do with any of this? I suspect most of them are faked by Mossad, CIA, MI6, and other related groups. This is not a religious war, we're dealing with a crime network.

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Gombei424Canada.

Man, I am so sorry for misunderstanding your post. After re-reading it, I understand that it was not meant to be ironic...? Hope you accept this apology and thanks for the nice comments. Cheers.

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It is not ridiculous, and not false. It cuts right to the center of the idiocy of the 9/11 troother conspiracy.

Where do you get your numbers from 14000? According to FBI, not my numbers. 6% of all terrorism was committed by Islam extremists. 7% was by Jewish extremists. I am not making these numbers up, these numbers are FBI´s numbers. Go and see for yourself. Most terrorism is not committed by Islam extremism. This is a fact.

Also, are you saying that other steel framed buildings have collapsed like a stack of cards like WTC7 did before and after 9/11? WTC7 was the 3rd building which collapsed that day and the building was not even hit by an airplane and the collapse looked just like a controlled demolishion.

Are you saying that others were allowed to fly out of US on 9/11 besides the bin Laden family?

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