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Iraq gov't gets control of Green ZoneBAGHDAD
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Yet more proof of the success of the surge, which Obama said wouldn't work.
Glad operations greening via greenzone passed on to Iraqis, more economic surge pressure needed by business arabia or business global.
Think the Iraq success is due to other reasons that brute force. Brute force does not work very well. There is going to be peace only as long as the Iraqi people want peace. History has shown us that no amount of brute force along can bring such. A military victory is not always a political victory.
This Green Zone handover is just a sideshow to a war that should never have been fought in the first place against a threat that was never there and that has cost US taxpayers (and their kids and grtandkids) a cool $2-3 trillion that is right now urgently needed to fund the US Govt's. bailout package but that is now being borrowed from foreigners and adding to America's already unsustainable debt mountain.
But - hey - at least Sarge thinks this is a good thing!
"a war that should never have been fought in the first place"
You mean we should have just let Saddam take over Kuwait and continue his murderous rule?
"At least Sarge thinks this is a good thing"
Well, I guess anyone who thinks we should have just let Saddam take over Kuwait and continue his murderous rule wouldn't think the Green Zone handover is a good thing, lol...
Violence around Iraq plunged in 2008, with attacks declining to an average of 10 a day from 180 a year ago. The murder rate in November was less than 1 per 100,000 people—far lower than many cities in the world.
U.S. military deaths in Iraq plunged by two-thirds in 2008 from the previous year, a reflection of the improving security following the American counterinsurgency campaign and al-Qaida’s slow retreat from the battlefield.
Since when did the Media get around to noticing this?
Good Day for Iraq and her future.
That's a big purple finger in the eye of every anti-liberation "pacifist" out there.
Sarge - "You mean we should have just let Saddam take over Kuwait and continue his murderous rule?"
No one would say that unless they were concerned about Saddam getting his hands on Kuwaiti oil, a resource that Sarge and the likes thinks rightfully belongs to America.
Meanwhile, people like Sarge celebrate the transfer of the Green Zone to Iraqis, while the US economy sinks ever further down the toilet.
Talking about fiddling while Rome burns, ha ha.
No sense of priorities whatsoever.
Sailwind - "Violence around Iraq plunged in 2008, with attacks declining to an average of 10 a day from 180 a year ago."
Wow, big deal. Meanwhile, the US economy sinks even further into the abyss, putting the livelihoods and lives of millions at risk.
Again, no sense of priorities whatsoever.
"Meanwhile, the US economy sinks even further into the abyss, putting the livelihoods and lives of millions at risk."
But the downturn means less consumption, less pollution, less of that imaginary global warming. The mostest, biggest threat facing mankind!
adamantine: "That's a big purple finger in the eye of every anti-liberation "pacifist" out there."
Is 'pacifist' your new little diminutive, pasqi? Whatever happened to 'socialist cheerleader'?
But really, as you guys can't seem to address without going way off topic, the US should never have been in Iraq to begin with. It was clearly just a means of taking pressure off the US governments complete inability to find OBL. And it's only cost you guys more than a trillion dollars! Now the US is finally giving over control of the Green Zone... good... it'll be less US soldiers killed if/when the next coup plot is carried out. I wonder what happened to the last 'patriotic men in government' who planned a coup. Hmmm...
I love it when people drum up the argument "we should have never been there in the first place". Well guess what, we are there! And guess what else, we have a moral obligation to leave Iraq better off than it was when we went in. Would you go to someone's house, set everything on fire to get rid of some termites and then just leave it in ashes? We went to Iraq, blew it to hell, deposed the government and its army. 4,000 soldiers is nothing compared to the millions of Iraqi's who have been killed and could be killed in the future if we allow another sectarian, genocidal government to take control of the country. American's are so selfish its unreal, and im saying this as an american. They are basically saying that an american life has a higher value than an Iraqi's life. To me, there is something wrong with that. A lot of us will never see eye to eye on Iraq. Personally I believe in the operation in Iraq. I think a stable and successful Iraq could put the Middle East on the road to peace. However, it will not happen over night. It will take decades of struggling to heal what the Iraqi's have gone thru. However, there is a lot of potential. Just look at South Korea and Japan. Went from a small 3rd world country to an economic powerhouse. With Iraq's natural resources, they could easily florish into a prosperous country.
Capster: "Would you go to someone's house, set everything on fire to get rid of some termites and then just leave it in ashes?"
I would never go to someone's house to do such a thing in the first place. And if I go to said person's house to get rid of some awful termites, is that not unfair to the other houses with awful termites? What makes just this one person's house so special?
I do agree with you that: 1) you guys are there now, yes. and 2) you have an obligation to leave the place in a better position than it was before. That does not mean that one cannot look back and say it was a mistake. It WAS a mistake, and even your president admitted such. It is therefore not at all useless or not worthwhile to look back and ponder whether or not it should have been done because it's called learning from history -- something your government should have done LONG ago.
Now, all that being said, once again I agree that talk on what to do NEXT is also incredibly important, and I'm happy the US is relinquishing power to the Iraqis. I sure hope it's for the better for these men and women, and not for the worse. During the decades of struggle you point out that Iraq is going to need, there is going to be equally as long in which Iraq is in danger of becoming what it was before, or worse. The government has to make positive moves NOW and keep the people believing in it. If they become more disillusioned than more coup plots will be formed and one will eventually succeed.
I can agree, the war was fought badly. Many American's died because of the flawed plan. However, many americans are also responsible for the delayed reaction of our government. They resisted a buildup of troops and funding that was necessary to hold territory in Iraq. I also blame the media and politicians of the opposing party for the propaganda that caused this delay. The propaganda works, that is for sure.
Moderator: Readers, no dwelling on the past please.
Your right, there is no proof of them starting a nuke program, which would also mean they were not capeable of building one at the time. There is evidence they were trying to obtain the technology. Take a look at the IAEA reports when the inspectors first arrived. There is plenty of evidence that the had researched it. Asking why we are not in every other country is a cop out. The reason we are not in every other country is because we want diplomatic solutions first. Iraq was something we felt we needed to address because of its location in the middle east. Again, like i said... 7 other nuclear armed countries.
Sarge Saddam attacked Kuwait in 1991. He was stopped and the country was punished. But I guess you believe that we have carte blanc access to punish over and over again.
I'll be glad when we get the hell out Of Iraq totally, not just the green zone. < :-)
Capster: "Asking why we are not in every other country is a cop out."
Actually, the cop out is not answering the question, which none of you who support the war in Iraq are able to do. It's always, "We did a good thing in ridding the world of a dictator," and then silence when you point out how many other countries have evil dictators, and those countries actually pose a threat and/or have links to terrorism.
"The reason we are not in every other country is because we want diplomatic solutions first."
Which is very admirable, and which is what you SHOULD have wanted with Iraq. So, again, why so different? and if it was simply just to get rid of Saddam, which isn't the case, why did the government have to lie to get support from the people to illegally go in?
"Again, like i said... 7 other nuclear armed countries."
So, what if freedumbized Iraq decides they want to pursue nuclear power and possibly even weapons? Is it suddenly going to be okay because now it is a so-called democracy?
I truly hope Iraq does not collapse. I can see it happening, but I hope I am wrong. When the reasons for regime change are all lies and the real reasons simply being profit, things tend to go bad pretty quickly.
And how long after the famed "Mission accomplished" statement was made did this take? And US troops are still there, probabaly readt to attack Iran at Israels command.
This war in Iraq has lasted longer than WWII.
The incompetence behind it has been awesome, as has the blind belief of a truckload of lies by its still vocal supporters.
Classy. A rebuke, but nothing to back it up.
Much like Bush's claim Saddam had WMD :-)
Moderator: Stay on topic please. Whether or not Saddam had WMDs is of course irrelevant to this discussion.
Another step forward to add to the other steps forward. Of course we are all grateful for that.
The down side is the ten steps backward nearly six years ago.
You know why many of us keep hounding you war junkies about that? BECAUSE YOU ARE WAR JUNKIES, that's why. We are not letting it go because many of you seem to forget that no matter what progress is made in Iraq, the dead cannot be resurrected nor limbs restored to the kids who lost them. We want you to know the score clearly so we do not get into another Vietnam...I mean Iraq. So many of you suckers were sucked right in, and its other people cleaning up the mess and suffering for those shameless sheep who go whereever the prez points his finger.
I really would not mind so much if it were only the war junkies' lives, limbs and money on the line.
Be fair. I was/is/ will be as against the invasion and occupation as anyone alive. But the invasion mission WAS accomplished. Major combat operations WERE over.
What the Bush admininstation regrets is not the facts, but the way things got played politically. Its really too bad too. There are much more meaningful things to attack Bush on. "Mission accomplished" is just a crappy sound bite.
And Superlib, you are technically correct. But the Ameri-centric always count the beginning of a war as when the U.S. got involved. And as that date becomes commonplace in newspapers and texts, Americans start to accept it without question. Trying to get Americans to understand that is probably about as much like fighting the wind as me trying to get Americans to attack Bush with something solid rather than that weak "mission accomplished" and all that other small minded crap.
This is the first real evidence that we're going to bring our troops home.
This is the first in our returning from Iraq and to quit occuping a country we should not have been in.
Turning the Green Zone to Iraq is GR-R-EAT!!!!!
Well, hopefully the ball will be taken securely by Iraq and they can run with it.
"Iraq gov't gets control of Green Zone." Oh, sure, build us a fortress and NOW make us defend it ourselves!
Libertas, I like your view of the world: The Allies are damned if we do, and damned if we don't.
That's an every time win-win for you, my friend.