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IS teen 'shocked' after UK revokes her citizenship

172 Comments
By Joe Jackson

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Unjust? That's hilarious! Don't join terror organization and expect anyone to care about your idea of what is unjust.

You cannot approach the court in equity with dirty hands and expect understanding.

53 ( +59 / -6 )

If you commit your life to resist and commit actions against western values and democracy, you have to be prepared that western countries will do anything in their power to protect their life-accomplishment! You have no right to demand anything from western countries who protects western values, if you have spent your life on trying to destroy them.

Why should you be granted a repatriation if you have already tried to destroy their values? Why should western countries bother to repatriate people who've attacked their values and way of living. An enemy of western values and their way of living does not deserve to live in solidarity with western values!

32 ( +37 / -5 )

Not made clear here is her time with IS including being unfazed by the sight of severed heads in bins and her justification of the Manchester Arena suicide bombing.

Aside from the legal issues, one genuine worry is treating someone who joined a Jihadi group badly could set off our own Jihadis in the UK or inspire others to join the Jihadi cause.

Bury your face in your hands time.

28 ( +31 / -3 )

We all make decisions and must take responsibility for the consequences. Being young, stupid or naive does not offer any exception to this rule.

35 ( +41 / -6 )

She voluntarily chose to denounce her birth country that she fled to support IS. and now she will have to live with the consequences.

33 ( +39 / -6 )

I understand the UKs decision - this girl showed her values to be fundamentally opposed to those of the free and democratic country's. That said, I wonder by what rule they can revoke citizenship, seeing as she is indeed a citizen, and revoking her citizenship would leave her stateless.

Either way, I can't say I feel even remotely bad for her.

32 ( +34 / -2 )

I understand the UKs decision - this girl showed her values to be fundamentally opposed to those of the free and democratic country's. That said, I wonder by what rule they can revoke citizenship, seeing as she is indeed a citizen, and revoking her citizenship would leave her stateless.

Either way, I can't say I feel even remotely bad for her.

I understand that the British government's position is that, because she is entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship through her mother, removing her British citizenship woukd not make her stateless.

But, although she may be entitled to it, does not have Bangladeshi citizenship in fact.

To me, this seems to be a way to placate those who don't want her to return now, but it will be overturned later in the courts.

That said, it seems to be the position in many European countries that they won't allow ISIS fighters to return.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

The UK has already revoked citizenship of about 100 people deemed dangerous to the country.

Begum left the UK to join a proscribed terrorist group and on arrival renounced her UK citizenship, as all those joining IS were required to do. She has given a series of interviews for UK TV, radio and newspapers and in each she has supported IS and it's ideals and actions, condoned the Manchester Arena bombing and said the beheadings and deaths of 'non-muslims' are justified. At the same time she said she 'deserved sympathy' and that the UK should be looking after her. Now her citizenship has been revoked the penny has finally dropped - I don't know what rubbish her family and solicitor has been telling her but she appeared to believe that coming back to the UK wouldn't be a problem.

Her child is a British citizen, he should be brought to the UK and made a ward of court to keep him away from malignant influences and give him a chance in life.

10 ( +16 / -6 )

Well, we've all done things in our teens that were out of order. Stripping her if citizenship is worrying, given the hostile climate toward BAME people, and if course the Windrush scandal.

This doesn't just come from nowhere, this movement. Illegal wars and injustice in the ME will tend to produce terrible consequences. And misguided kids like her.

I wonder would the young men and women who left the UK to fight for and against Franco, how they would fare on return?

-11 ( +11 / -22 )

I wonder would the young men and women who left the UK to fight for and against Franco, how they would fare on return?

The International Brigade wasn't a proscribed group, nor did they commit acts of terrorism in the UK.

13 ( +17 / -4 )

In the US, if you leave the country to join an enemy army, the US government has the right to revoke your citizenship. I would imagine it is pretty much the same in the UK.

I've got no sympathy for her. Sure, if she wants to give up her rights to ever seeing her child again, let him be put in a British orphanage. As for her, let her rot.

12 ( +21 / -9 )

while expressing no regret over having joined IS.

Well then, you may continue to rot in your ISIS camp with no regrets.

21 ( +26 / -5 )

"Orphanage"? Seriously, they don't have those anymore. Kids get fostered and/or adopted.

-9 ( +5 / -14 )

Good she can stay there she has no place living in a free Country..

17 ( +19 / -2 )

I'm all for compassion and forgiveness, but this :

Begum gave birth to her third child at the weekend, and appealed to British authorities to show "compassion" by allowing her to raise the baby in Britain -- while expressing no regret over having joined IS.

is the final straw.

No need to feel bad for her.

21 ( +24 / -3 )

I think she has some sort of mental illness (not as excuse, just an observation). She thinks it's okay to fight for IS then gets upset when the UK government doesn't want her back. That's not the thinking of a rational person.

As for the removing her status as a British citizen, I think it's a bad idea. Do we really want these people roaming around the Middle East fighting for terrorism?

Look at the Northern Ireland peace process. In order to move it along the government had to deal and accept terrorist in the UK.

We need to take back "our terrorist s" and deal with them. Leaving them out in the world is reckless and dangerous.

-14 ( +8 / -22 )

I would actually have more respect for this woman if she didn’t run from battle, and remained steadfast to her cause, — no matter how mistaken.

Instead she runs from danger and tried to be accepted back into Britain while saying “ISIS is still totally cool though.”

Let her rot.

13 ( +19 / -6 )

Well, we've all done things in our teens that were out of order.

Yes, I drank beer and smoked pot.

I didn’t join an organization which butchered people and left their heads in bins.

I still think drinking beer and smoking pot is okay. She still seems to think cutting people’s heads off and blowing up kids at a concert is okay.

There is a difference here.

31 ( +35 / -4 )

Just remember....

British people who have gone to Syria to fight against ISIS have been arrested upon returning to the UK.

Whereas HUNDREDS of individuals who left the UK to join ISIS have been let back into the country without question.

This sends very mixed messages. And to add insult to injury, earlier this week, the head of the British police said that if this woman returned to the UK, she could expect a stern 'talking to' through questioning.

Is it any wonder people don't feel safe in Britain anymore?

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Begum gave birth to her third child at the weekend, and appealed to British authorities to show "compassion" by allowing her to raise the baby in Britain -- while expressing no regret over having joined IS.

So, no regret over having joined IS!

Oh, and here is this beauty that isn't in the article. She named her baby son Jarrah, which means 'able fighter' or 'one who wounds' in Arabic.

The name is also linked to Abu Ubaidah ibn al-Jarrah, known for massacring Jews in the 7th century.

Sorry, but she deserves no sympathy and no mercy.

19 ( +21 / -2 )

She should be, not allowed to return to the UK, but dragged back from the camp to the UK, where she should be held and charged with treason, terrorism, aiding an enemy army, succouring the foe, whatever the legal jargon is.

I agree with all those who above who claim she has no right to mercy, deserves no sympathy, brought all her woes on herself. She apparently has no regrets for doing what she has done.

BUT

She is a UK citizen, and to my mind UK citizenship is too robust a thing to be determined by a handful of bureaucrats. UK citizenship gives protection to those who have it - and also entails responsibility, on both sides. Now is the time for her to face up to her responsibilities and to face the music in the UK, and for the UK to deal with a problem citizen as it would deal with any other law-breaker.

'She can claim Bangaladeshi citizenship' holds no water at all. She does not have Bangladeshi citizenship, and it was not Bangladesh that raised her to be a radical terrorist supporter and ISIS bride; that is the UK's responsibility, and the UK cannot simply push her off onto another country with which she has no ties apart from genes.

Bring her home and deal with her, make her atone for what she has done. And make sure her baby, who is innocent and not responsible for the sins of his stupid mother, does not grow up to be another jihadist.

0 ( +11 / -11 )

Begum gave birth to her third child at the weekend, and appealed to British authorities to show "compassion" by allowing her to raise the baby in Britain -- while expressing no regret over having joined IS.

The nerve! A modern, IS-style scummy mummy.

Well done Britain, hope other euro nations do the same. Ppl who abhor & reject western values & culture are not welcome back home.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

Begum gave birth to her third child at the weekend, and appealed to British authorities to show "compassion" by allowing her to raise the baby in Britain -- while expressing no regret over having joined IS.

There is so much wrong here. What disturbs me the most is that these girls are falling prey to the IS recruiters at a young age. She was 15 when she moved there. Hello? Parents? What the....

16 ( +17 / -1 )

"Orphanage"? Seriously, they don't have those anymore. Kids get fostered and/or adopted.

Wow, sorry... I guess they're called 'Children's Homes' now. Whatever you want to call them, it's an orphanage and you knew exactly what I meant.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

She should be, not allowed to return to the UK, but dragged back from the camp to the UK, where she should be held and charged with treason, terrorism, aiding an enemy army, succouring the foe, whatever the legal jargon is.

Why? So the British taxpayers can pay for her trial and then for her confinement, which will be 100% more comfortable than where she is now? Nope.

She is a UK citizen, and to my mind UK citizenship is too robust a thing to be determined by a handful of bureaucrats. UK citizenship gives protection to those who have it - and also entails responsibility, on both sides.

Yes, it entails responsibilities. Such as not raising arms against your fellow citizens. She chose to support an enemy of her country. She no longer has any right to receive those protections that UK citizenship provides.

She made her choice.

12 ( +16 / -4 )

Look at the Northern Ireland peace process. In order to move it along the government had to deal and accept terrorist in the UK.

Correct.

That meant holding secret talks with so-called terrorists in the IRA, whilst publicly claiming they would never talk to terrorists.

It eventually helped lead to the IRA decommisioning their guns and even the sectarian loyalist paramilitaries (most of them) doing the same, paving the way for the GFA.

Of course, this young woman's cause is not the same as Irish freedom from British occupation, nor is she fighting in the Spanish Civil War. But lessons need to be learned - and taking away her citizenship is the wrong move. What's needed is a long, hard look at how bad things must be when British kids become radicalised.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

Compassion is one of the few emotions that ennobles our species, which is why it is seldom found among politicians, who, like the grandstanding Javid, seize every opportunity to exploit the mistakes of powerless individuals for their own political ambitions.

The fact is that the know-nothing 15 year old schoolgirl Begum, as she has admitted herself, made a very bad decision when she went over to IS. She has surely learned her lesson, including the one which politicians are especially loath to learn despite their mealy-mouthed mantras, like "actions have consequences". Yeah, like destabilizing the Middle East by attacking Iraq destroying the delicate balance of power among the tribes and religious groups, killing hundreds of thousands with bombs, missiles, guns and torture, creating millions of refugees and leaving millions of ruined lives in their wake, thus sowing the seeds of hatred that eventually produced the poisonous revanchist movement of the Caliphate which by means of social media was able to brainwash disaffected young moslems from outside the region to come and join their crusade against the infidel western powers responsible for creating so much lethal mayhem in their lives.

Begum claimed to be "unfazed" by heads in a bin, but she is no doubt just putting on a brave front. After all she witnessed she is probably suffering from a form of PTSD, an ailment that rarely afflicts politicians who blithely make the decisions that have dire "consequences" for us all.

Allowing Begum to come back home to her family would be a humanitarian gesture that would benefit everyone except Javid and his ilk. She was not an IS fighter and poses little future threat to the security of the country.

Once back in the UK raising her child she will surely learn that there are other "western values" besides killing people in foreign countries for geopolitical reasons.

-16 ( +2 / -18 )

All these Jihadi x-wives ought to be brought to justice. There needs to be accountability.

Sure they didn’t saw off anyone’s head, but their lovers did.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

All these Jihadi x-wives ought to be brought to justice. There needs to be accountability.

That also applies to the powers that invaded Middle East countries and put all this madness into motion. Actions have consequences.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

This doesn't just come from nowhere, this movement. Illegal wars and injustice in the ME will tend to produce terrible consequences. And misguided kids like her.

Agreed. I am not justifying the violence form either side but we are only given half of the story. To think that the west is free of guilt is quite naive and ignorant in itself.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

I read a rumor, no idea if its true, that this girl knowingly named her son after an infamous terrorist responsible for carrying out many terror attacks that killed "infidel women and children".

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Not sure revoking her citizenship is the right way to go about it...wasn't there a huge terrorist problem in England from the 70's up till the late 90's? Maybe they should treat it the same way? I definitely don't think she should be allowed to return without punishment though. Tough call...

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

wasn't there a huge terrorist problem in England from the 70's up till the late 90's?

There have been acts of terrorism in Britain for centuries, aye. I think you refer to the IRA campaign which followed the brutalisation of Civil Rights folk in the occupied 6 counties. It's a far more complicated history than what I've posted here, but worth reading about, in your own time.

Maybe they should treat it the same way?

By dialogue, not internment. The latter only added to widespread support of the IRA.

Again, I stress that the current situation is very different but kicking her out of the country sets a dangerous precedent.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

Good news for once.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

@toasted

Yea, I'm referring to the IRA, and admittedly I am not incredibly knowledgeable about the history to comment appropriately. I just thought revoking citizenship is a pretty dangerous game to start playing. I don't think anyone who promotes any sort of terrorism should be left unpunished, but it seems more of an attack on her Islamic background than her actions. On the other hand, short term punishment for actions motivated by intense moral and religious beliefs might not be enough to sedate further crimes...I don't know what the correct move is.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

That also applies to the powers that invaded Middle East countries and put all this madness into motion. Actions have consequences.

“... the powers that invaded...”

”... put all this madness into motion.”

Please be precise in telling us which powers “invaded” and exactly when “all this madness” was put “into motion”.

Perhaps you are referring to Nebuchadnezzar or some more chronologically distant power? A foreign power when a neighboring power will do just as well to create madness?

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

I don't think anyone who promotes any sort of terrorism should be left unpunished, but it seems more of an attack on her Islamic background than her actions.

If the British govt. revoked citizenship from white citizens who go abroad as mercenaries, trying to conspire to topple foreign governments, I'd be more inclined to see their actions as more even-handed but currently it does look like they are making examples of a certain demographic. I'm referring to the attempted coup in Equatorial Guinea, in which Thatcher's son, Mark, was involved. As a rich man and son of the former British PM, he got off rather lightly.

I suspect there is an element of bigotry and class prejudice in the Home Office ruling. That's not to say there wasn't bigotry and prejudice in her decision (as a kid, mind) to join the Daesh idiots.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

“That also applies to the powers that invaded Middle East countries and put all this madness into motion. Actions have consequences.”

Totally agree. Iraq should have NEVER invaded & plundered it’s peaceful, innocence neighbor. -Kuwait

7 ( +11 / -4 )

Perhaps you are referring to Nebuchadnezzar or some more chronologically distant power? A foreign power when a neighboring power will do just as well to create madness?

I'm referring to more recent history. Churchill's suggestions to gas the Kurds, British Palestine, America supporting the Shah, America supporting Saddam (see Donald Rumsfeld), America sending arms to Iran (see Oliver North and chums), America and the UK's unflinching support of apartheid state and international lawbreaker Israel, and of course; the illegal invasion of Iraq.

Rightly or wrongly, these and many other incidents of Western (and Russian) meddling in the region have radicalised impressionable minds.

Just wait until the traumatised generation of Syrians grow up. And of course, terrorism is not just going to come from those with sympathies in that region. Go talk to hardcore Republicans in Ireland and ask about their fears for the future.

-10 ( +4 / -14 )

Totally agree. Iraq should have NEVER invaded & plundered it’s peaceful, innocence neighbor. -Kuwait

Apart from all those human rights violations, executions, discrimination against the Bidun, exploitation and abuse of workers... oh yeah, real innocent.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Did I read correctly that she is 19 years old on her 3rd baby?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Actions have consequences. And now you want to go back to your nice home because the IS life is too tough... without even admitting to regret?!?!

You’ll spend forever learning that lesson... and regretting!

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Is this happening to her because she's been so high profile? I don't recall any British male who did the same being stripped of their citizenship - or had so much publicity around it happen. More than happy to admit I don't know if men have had the same things done to them when they've expressed interest in returning home.

I'm torn on this. I think she made many, many poor decisions but think the knock on effect actually just fuels those who are like her in the UK - lost, unable to fit into society and looking for an excuse for their rage. Would this not just help recruitment? Why not take her back and try and "reform" her as best they can? There are many cases in the US of this happening and I think it would be a better line to go down.

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

I suspect there is an element of bigotry and class prejudice in the Home Office ruling

Yes, it’s islamopbobia rearing it’s ugly head again. The discrimination against a woman who joined a jihadi group, married a jihadi and saw no problem with jihadi massacres and still seems to think blowing up kids at concerts is okay, is the victim of bigotry.

Can we please focus on what this woman, a grown adult and mother, still believes rather than talking about the IRA?

12 ( +14 / -2 )

Can we please focus on what this woman, a grown adult and mother, still believes rather than talking about the IRA?

It's quite relevant, Jimizo. Your country has a long and ugly record of planting the seeds of dissent, be it Ireland or the Middle East. And then you act all surprised when the chickens come home to roost.

Mixed metaphors aside, if the person was a right-wing, white, Christian male, there would be no robbing his citizenship.

So yes, there is bigotry at play here.

-7 ( +6 / -13 )

Great news, now is there a particular reason Syria is not moving to execute her as enemy ally and combatant?

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Mixed metaphors aside, if the person was a right-wing, white, Christian male, there would be no robbing his citizenship.

So yes, there is bigotry at play here.

Not necessarily true. I don’t believe there is bigotry at all at play, zero. I wanted and whisked for that Obama nut to have denounced and striped that Bergdahl of his citizenship, but he didn’t do that and he’s White, has nothing to do with color, doesn’t matter what race you are, you go fight with terrorists from which ever country you come from, and then you claim you learned the error of your wicked ways and think you have the right to come back? Stupidest thing I’ve ever heard of, if you take part of the enemy and if you get blasted by Allied forces, then that is your own fault. I don’t have a shred of sympathy for these people.

4 ( +8 / -4 )

I'm always amazed at some of the posts that get down-voted.

Especially the one that stated (paraphrasing, here) "I drank beer and smoked pot. She participated in terrorism. There a bit of a difference".

How does THAT get down-voted? Someone disagree's that there is a difference there?

8 ( +12 / -4 )

Most people, and I think everyone here is included, would agree that what she has done is wrong. You have to wonder though, will they start revoking the citizenship of UK citizens who commit terrorist crimes within the UK or will they be rightly prosecuted by law? It's hard to say if there is bigotry involved, I think it could be argued either way. However, it seems like these people burn or destroy their passports upon entering the caliphate, so maybe they already renounce their citizenship at that point. And that is a decision she should have to live with.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

If you look at this from the Bangladeshi perspective, this is a totally indefensible move by the UK.

She literally has zero connections to Bangladesh - not born there, doesn't hold a passport from there, never been there, the government has never heard of her. On the other hand she was born in the UK, raised there, turned into an IS fanatic there.

Now the UK is like "Um, yeah Bangladesh why don't we just go ahead and make her your problem now. Mmkay?"

Total a-hole move by the UK there.

Throwing her in prison for the rest of her life for her crimes? Sure, no problem. But just trying to make her somebody else's problem when that somebody else has nothing to do with her? Screw that.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

Sadly I do not think there is anyone in the UK able to 'reform' someone with radical thinking like this. Words like 'face robust UK justice' look fine on paper, but does such a thing exist? People are busy and tired. The system is old, leaky and creaking. I do not think the courts are able to deal with them. I do not think the prisons or prison officers are able to handle them or stop them spreading their message. It's always someone else's responsibility and problems get handed along until they sort of disappear, getting mopped up in the general miasma. Perhaps one alone can be isolated and worked with long enough, by an enthusiastic team of experts, but the system is not set up to deal with multiples, such as a group of IS wives, and there are few bright individuals with enough understanding and positive energy to deradicalize someone like this. Gloomy it sounds perhaps, but in the back of their minds the authorities are aware of this.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Some of her own family members agree with the decision. They see the big picture and the threat posed. She can always stay in that area of Syria she chose to live in, Daesh (ISIS) at one time offered passports and healthcare, though they cut and paste images from the UK NHS!

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Surely she would love to live in that other Islamic paradise Bangladesh rather than return to the UK and the infidels she so despises?

8 ( +11 / -3 )

It's difficult to have much sympathy for her: how much sympathy did her ISIS mates show to anyone who opposed them? None whatsoever: they were all brutally murdered. She had better hope the ones they didn't kill don't get hold of her and give her the same treatment. They are waiting for their revenge.

The baby can be sent to the UK and brought up by his grandparents. I don't think that leaving her in Syria will be a problem. The jihadi nutters in the UK already hate us and want to kill us, no matter what happens with this woman. Why bring any more of them into the country?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

If the British govt. revoked citizenship from white citizens who go abroad as mercenaries, trying to conspire to topple foreign governments, I'd be more inclined to see their actions as more even-handed but currently it does look like they are making examples of a certain demographic. I'm referring to the attempted coup in Equatorial Guinea, in which Thatcher's son, Mark, was involved. As a rich man and son of the former British PM

One of the most intelligent and topical posts I have ever read on Japan Today. Regardless of our opinion on this case, the British government clearly have a cultural/ racial bias when making legal judgements on citizenship. Which sums up why the country has been divided over Brexit and the current mess it is in.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

What could she offer? Is she only wanting to take, including free baby-sitting by her relatives?

By contrast here is an American example who has repented and could actually help others if allowed to return.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/02/pompeo-alabama-woman-joined-isil-return-190220205553875.html

3 ( +4 / -1 )

is there a particular reason Syria is not moving to execute her as enemy ally and combatant?

Because even the murderous Syrian Army would not execute a mother whose only crime is to join Isis as a bride. At the age of 15. There is no evidence that she took arms or fought. Your so-called trial and punishment is even more medieval than those of Isis.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Mixed metaphors aside, if the person was a right-wing, white, Christian male, there would be no robbing his citizenship.

So yes, there is bigotry at play here.

A right-wing Christian white male would be the last person to join ISIS. There have been plenty of cases in the past of white American/European males who, for whatever reason, joined the taliban/al-qaida/ISIS etc and were killed in combat or captured and jailed for life.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Revoking an individual's citizenship was one of the Nazis' most powerful political tools for dealing with "undesirables", those considered enemies by the Nazi regime. Such an historical precedent ought to alert us to the arrogant overreach of the thoroughly discredited UK Home Office, already responsible for ruining the lives of tens of thousands of British citizens with their "hostile environment" policies.

To anyone familiar with the jargon used by the right-wing Tory regime, the word "robust", as in in "robust justice", will send chills down the spine. Ms Begum will, I believe, be allowed to return, but only after costing the British tax-payers a pretty penny because of Javid's intransigent, inhumane policy.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

One of her answers in an interview was so bizarre. She was asked: "The head of the Foreign Intelligence Services in the UK says people like you are potentially very dangerous. What would you say to him?"

Her reply: "They don't have any evidence against me doing anything dangerous."

Most people (even the ones who are being dishonest) would say: "I haven't done anything" or "I am not dangerous".

Her answer gives the impression that she possibly has done something, but nobody can prove it. Just a really weird answer.

Also, people can inherit citizenship from their parents, just like British people who are born outside of the UK do. So, it's not unreasonable to say she has Bangladeshi citizenship.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Of course she’s shocked; she, and many others, are used to countries like Britain just rolling over and taking anything that comes their way.

Right now the imams are preaching that the UK will one day be a Muslim country, and their followers take that to heart. They’re not there to take part, they’re there to take over.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

It's quite relevant, Jimizo. Your country has a long and ugly record of planting the seeds of dissent, be it Ireland or the Middle East. And then you act all surprised when the chickens come home to roost.

I’m fully aware of what the government of my country has done. It doesn’t excuse accepting the beheading of infidels and justifying blowing innocent kids up at a concert. Do you think it does?

Mixed metaphors aside, if the person was a right-wing, white, Christian male, there would be no robbing his citizenship.

If a white neo-Nazi was attempting to return after joining a genocidal group abroad and there was a chance to palm this trash off to another country or leave him in a new-Nazi camp, I’d be in favour of that along with most UK people and the government. On that point, it has already been pointed out that Bangladesh are right not to accept Jihadi trash.

People like to throw the word ‘Nazi’ around a lot these days. ISIS deserve to be put on par with Nazis.

We are dealing with someone who seems to condone exterminationist policies and joined a group which carried it out. That’s putting your money where your mouth is.

I’m sure if this was a neo-Nazi, you’d be less forgiving.

I’m at least consistent. I’ve got no time for either.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

She chose to support an enemy of her country. She no longer has any right to receive those protections that UK citizenship provides.

She does still have the duty to take responsibility for her actions, and the UK government has the duty to take her in hand and put her on trial for her misdeeds.

 it's not unreasonable to say she has Bangladeshi citizenship.

Except that she doesn't have it and there is no reason Bangladesh should offer citizenship to a person who has discredited the country in which she was born and raised. If the UK, to which she has ties, doesn't want her, there is no reason on earth why another country that she has never set foot in should be obliged to give her citizenship. rainyday sets it out succinctly.

The baby can be sent to the UK and brought up by his grandparents.

Considering the mess they made of raising the baby's mother, I don't think they should be allowed to try again. Bring the baby back to the UK, and have him adopted. There must be lots of childless couples who would love to give him a good home and raise him to be a good, upstanding citizen.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I'm always amazed at some of the posts that get down-voted.

Especially the one that stated (paraphrasing, here) "I drank beer and smoked pot. She participated in terrorism. There a bit of a difference". 

How does THAT get down-voted? Someone disagree's that there is a difference there?

The woman in the article may think that drinking beer is worse than beheading infidels or blowing kids up.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Right now the imams are preaching that the UK will one day be a Muslim country, and their followers take that to heart. They’re not there to take part, they’re there to take over.

And this is precisely the kind of rhetoric that helps radicalise these young or poorly educated minds. A complete lack of understanding regarding Islam and its many, many different outlooks and political views. Nope, too nuanced for some, let's stick them under the same umbrella.

Nobody is denying that there are wrong 'uns about. Of course there are. But to label them as all the same, all bent on invading/taking over/destroying values etc is disingenuous.

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

@ Jimizo

Everybody knows that there are lots of western politicians who want us to believe that smoking pot is worse than dropping bombs on innocent civilians in foreign countries. If there is one thing even the dumbest politician knows, it is how to get more votes by appealing to the basest instincts of the electorate.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Talk about being out of touch with reality!

6 ( +6 / -0 )

I’m fully aware of what the government of my country has done. It doesn’t excuse accepting the beheading of infidels and justifying blowing innocent kids up at a concert. Do you think it does?

I've never argued such a thing. I don't condone what she did, I don't condone Daesh and their murderous doings. I've made that clear on numerous occasions, so please don't insult mine and your intelligence with such a leading question. I'm saying that there are numerous reasons of say, disenchantment, alienation etc that may factor in such a terrible decision to join Daesh. None of which justify murder and mayhem, Jimizo.

People like to throw the word ‘Nazi’ around a lot these days. ISIS deserve to be put on par with Nazis.

You'll have no argument with me on that one.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Apparently her plan B is now Holland anyway.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/02/bride-shamima-begum-seek-dutch-citizenship-190220102302074.html

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Jimizo, not may , she is muslim and a violent fanatic .. anything anti islamic or forbidden by islam is much worse than killing bunch of infidels. ,interestingly enough radicalized women are typically actually adhere to the religion while muslim men while praying in public often do drink and have out of wedlock sex or steal.

anyway, the only punishment suitable for someone like her should be dealt by the country she tried to invade... no mercy is applicable in any of these cases.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Its a complicated one for sure, but I totally agree with the UK government

she choose her side (so to speak), she should stay there, or whats left of it. Or a muslim country

after all she will feel more at home there

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Shamima Begum is a toxic, dangerous, radical Islamic fundamentalist. Has a deep seated hatred and loathing for Great Britain's democracy, rule of law, tolerance, respect for individual liberty, the rights to freedom of expression. Shamima Begum has been radicalised beyond redemption.

I only have sympathy for the infant child, born to a Mother and Father wedded to terrorism.

Religious indoctrination, mixed with unquestioning veneration and piety from such a young age is a lethal combination.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Great news, now is there a particular reason Syria is not moving to execute her as enemy ally and combatant?

Maybe that's how it's done under Assad & Putin but in the civilised world, let's hope she can rehabilitate and turn her life around.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Of course Shamima Begum fate will be decided by the judiciary, because Great Britain, the rule of law takes precedence. Emotionally I hope Shamima Begum rots in the hell of Shamima Begum own making.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

She has no regrets about joining IS but is now "shocked" that the UK is stripping her citizenship?

This girl seems to have issues. One of them is her over-inflated sense of entitlement.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

expressing no regret over having joined IS.

then she ain't sorry for joining a group of thugs who wanted to do nothing but cause trouble, hate, terror for millions of people. She made the bed up, she lies in it. Even though she was a teenager, she's now an adult and she certainly knew that she was joining up with a bunch of world criminals - murderers, not true Muslims! Now that ISIL is getting whipped (maybe) she wants to go back home as if the past 4 years didn't happen and she ain't even sorry about it all?

Fuhgeddaboutit, babe! Great Britain doesn't welcome back traitors and you'll get NO SYMPATHY!

1 ( +5 / -4 )

The discomfort I feel at the UK deciding to try and wash its hands of one of its civilians and dump the responsibility onto Bangladesh - a former British colony - aside, this sets a really worrying precedent. Who's to say that countries won't just start revoking the citizenship of people who commit crimes abroad to avoid having to punish them? The UK needs to take responsibility for this girl and punish her appropriately if she finds her way back here.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I just want to go on record to say that this decision will not withstand a court challenge. 100% guaranteed. The UK has completely overplayed its hand here. These citizenship stripping laws are premised entirely on the idea that returnees will use their citizenship status to carry out imminent attacks in the west, but there is literally zero credible suspicion of that in this case. The fact that she was legally a child for the majority of her time in Syria just adds to the certainty.

The discomfort I feel at the UK deciding to try and wash its hands of one of its civilians and dump the responsibility onto Bangladesh

Exactly. Ultimately these citizenship stripping laws are just a form of social dumping. If Bangladesh refuses to recognise her as a citizen, what is Lebanon supposed to do with her? Just imagine if countries like Turkey or China suddenly started stripping citizenship from hundreds or thousands of people traveling overseas. How would you feel if your country was forced to host these people permanently? Why should other countries be forced to host terrorists which are entirely the product of modern day Britain?

0 ( +6 / -6 )

There is theory (forgive, apply justice, reconvert to western values, give light punishment by living in a cell being given food and accomodation with no enduring of any pain...) and practice (Ki.ll the baitch who is within a system, including some her family in UK, that will hurt hard you and me).

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

These citizenship stripping laws are premised entirely on the idea that returnees will use their citizenship status to carry out imminent attacks in the west, but there is literally zero credible suspicion of that in this case.

'Literally zero credible suspicion' is a huge exaggeration; After all, she joined IS, the government will have a strong case that she is a danger to British citizens.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

There is theory (forgive, apply justice, reconvert to western values, give light punishment by living in a cell being given food and accomodation with no enduring of any pain...) and practice (Ki.ll the baitch who is within a system, including some her family in UK, that will hurt hard you and me).

Nope, didn't understand a word of that. Could you please explain what point you're trying to make there, thanks.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Any and all punishments must be applied fairly and according to existing UK law, to the extent that UK crimes have been committed. That would apply to imprisonment, fines, revoking of citizenship or whatever. Not a matter for emotional responses.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Any and all punishments must be applied fairly and according to existing UK law, to the extent that UK crimes have been committed. That would apply to imprisonment, fines, revoking of citizenship or whatever. Not a matter for emotional responses.

Could that apply to domestic far right terrorists as well?

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Everyone should be treated the same regardless of what they have or have not done.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Everyone should be treated the same regardless of what they have or have not done.

Yea, so she should be tried in a court of law by the UK government. Not simply stripped of citizenship, right?

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Toasted HereticToday  10:01 am JST

If the British govt. revoked citizenship from white citizens who go abroad as mercenaries, trying to conspire to topple foreign governments, I'd be more inclined to see their actions as more even-handed but currently it does look like they are making examples of a certain demographic.

A major flaw with that theory is more often than not mercenaries go and do their thing for financial gain and pose no threat to their own nation upon returning. The ISIS crowd have followed an ideology that despises and wants to destroy everything about the western way of life, which obviously poses massive risks having them back. Over 150 ISIS Brits have been stripped of their citizenship since 2016 and many more will be, which I have no problem with at all.

If you have any knowledge of how the white extreme right are dealt with in the UK, I don't think you'll still be crying anti Muslim bias.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Trump Administration also denying ISIS bride entry to the US. Let’s hope that stupid freshmen congresswoman-Ilhan Omar- doesn’t throw a tantrum over this.

You just know she wants that former Isis bride to return. Probably in her district too.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Is this woman living in cuckoo land or something? she want to come home etc, eeer, no you cleared off to join ISIS, isis want to kill the infidel west etc etc, why on earth would we ( the infidel west) want to open up our arms to welcome you back? nope, sorry you can stay in your mud hut or pile of rubble.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Yea, so she should be tried in a court of law by the UK government. Not simply stripped of citizenship, right?

Exactly. Also she was a minor when she initially left the country on her misguided crusade.

5 ( +10 / -5 )

After all, she joined IS, the government will have a strong case that she is a danger to British citizens.

Sure, but how is she any more dangerous than the thousands of British Muslims with dual citizenship who support the Islamic state but didn't have the money to fly to Turkey to live in IS territory? Or the thousands who are under surveillance by MI6, or the thousands who think violence is justified to usher in a sharia state? The UK will need to rationalise why these British Muslims have not been strip of their citizenship while Begum has. Some abstract notion of potential danger in the future is clearly not enough to justify the use of one of the most draconian laws on the books.

Stripping citizenship is supposed to be a law enforcement tool that needs to be exercised proportionately. It's appropriate in cases where people have left the country holding British passports and their whereabouts are unknown and there is no way to detain them. In this case, the British government know exactly where this woman is and they can pick up the telephone at any time to request her extradition from Lebanon to face British justice (assuming she has committed a crime). Stripping her of citizenship under these circumstances appears to be an entirely political move and I can't see it surviving judicial review. This will be Abu Qatada all over again.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

"In order to protect this country, he has the power to deprive someone of their British citizenship where it would not render them stateless."

But if Bangladesh rejects her application for citizenship then she will be stateless, and the implication in the Minister's statement seems to be that to make her stateless would be against UK law. I'm pretty sure it's against international law - we just had a similar case here in Australia with ISIS recruiter Neil Prakash, who the Government stripped of his Australian citizenship on the basis that he could apply for Fijian citizenship, only to be advised after the fact by the Fijian Govt that Prakash was in fact not entitled to Fijian citizenship. Australia hadn't taken the simple step of asking the Fijians their opinion first.

I understand the antipathy toward this girl - I feel the same way. But I agree with those who think this woman is a UK problem and should be dealt with as a criminal in the UK courts. She was born and bred there - that makes her the UK's problem, not Bangladesh's or anyone else's.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

You mean there are consequences for your actions? Who knew!?

12 ( +14 / -2 )

M3M3M3Today  04:23 pm JST The UK will need to rationalise why these British Muslims have not been strip of their citizenship while Begum has. 

Their rationale is pretty clear in that she actually went to join and live with a terrorist group. Anyone living in the UK who is found to be a member of a banned terrorist group (Islamic or other) can be arrested and charged, which does happen.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

I understand the antipathy toward this girl - I feel the same way. But I agree with those who think this woman is a UK problem and should be dealt with as a criminal in the UK courts. She was born and bred there - that makes her the UK's problem, not Bangladesh's or anyone else's.

That's what we're seeing more, countries that are not taking responsibility and not doing the most basic research. Classic pass the buck mentality

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Anyone living in the UK who is found to be a member of a banned terrorist group (Islamic or other) can be arrested and charged, which does happen.

But she can also be easily arrested and charged, can't she? The Home Office can simply pick up the phone to Beirut and request that she be deported to the UK.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

She is British and so Britain should take responsibility for her, why should Syria have to look after her?

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

She has seriously screwed up her life and caused misery to others.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

She was misleaded! These western IS members were also being misleaded that the Syrian war was holy! The one who should stand in court is Obama, he kicked up the Arab Spring and the Syrian war!

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

But if Bangladesh rejects her application for citizenship then she will be stateless

She has a state: the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham. Otherwise known as ISIS.

Here’s hoping they have lots of cool, Instagrammable stuff to take photos of out there.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

If you take up arms against your government at home, you still keep your nationality while you go to prison...or hang. There is a similar case in the US. The WH has lied and said the woman who wants to return from Yemen's parents were diplomats, barring her from citizenship, when they were actually refugees who later gained citizenship through naturalization before she was born.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Begum, who is of Bangladeshi heritage, was born in Britain

I don't think governments should be able to strip their born citizens of citizenship.

The criminals among your citizens have to be dealt with in the usual way, not offloaded somewhere else.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Let her serve as an example for the next little psychopath who thinks they can go off on a jihadi junket and come back when they feel like it.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

She is young and dumb. Her two dead children have already paid the price.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Hello Kitty 321Today  05:41 pm JST

She is British and so Britain should take responsibility for her, why should Syria have to look after her?

If I go to visit a country and get in trouble or commit crimes there it's not down to the UK to punish me for them is it.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

M3M3M3Today  05:28 pm JST

Anyone living in the UK who is found to be a member of a banned terrorist group (Islamic or other) can be arrested and charged, which does happen.

But she can also be easily arrested and charged, can't she? The Home Office can simply pick up the phone to Beirut and request that she be deported to the UK.

Why? She was overseas with a terrorist group, she should be dealt with in the country she 'committed' crimes in.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@ darknuts

You mean there are consequences for your actions? Who knew!?

I can tell you who didn't, and who never ever wants to know: those politicians responsible for the wars of aggression and mass destruction in the Middle East. The consequences of their ruthless foreign policies can not be hidden by the compliant media today, as they were during the Vietnam war. The most soul-destroying warporn is now accessible to anyone with a computer. Horrific photos and video clips of the victims of war have been seen online by millions. It is not difficult for anyone who has raised teenagers, or has not forgotten their own teenage emotions, to imagine the revulsion felt by idealistic and impressionable, young minds viewing these extremely disturbing images of war's ugly truth which governments and the military do not want the public to know.

Ms Begum left the UK in disgust, or for whatever other reasons, as a child of 15 and today at 19 she is still not a mature adult. I can't understand why so many wish her ill instead of showing a little forgiveness. After all, if our victims do not forgive us for all the death and destruction we have caused them with our military technology (IS evidently could not forgive) then we can look forward to a resurgence of anti-western attacks in the years to come.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

@u-s- reamer,

ISIS had already burned to death in a cage the unfortunate Jordanian pilot they had captured - and shown it on the internet. Everybody at the time and most certainly this little ISIS bride was aware of this atrocity. So what does she do? Leaves the UK to join the disgusting killers. Shes a psychopath and like many psychopaths found her natural home with terrorists.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Why? She was overseas with a terrorist group, she should be dealt with in the country she 'committed' crimes in.

It's not a matter of should. It's a matter of whether that country intends to do so. In this case, the Syrian state is engaged in a messy, protracted, and massively destructive civil war, further complicated by the presence and direct armed involvement of multiple nations who are either seeking to support or overthrow the regime, and so Begum's legal situation is unlikely to be any kind of priority for Syria.

Britain is in a different position, because Begum is a British citizen attempting to return home, and she is both high profile and high priority here. They can try her if British laws have been broken, and they can convict her if the case is solid enough, but it has to go through the standard tests and challenges of the British legal system.

Revoking a British person's sole citizenship to render them stateless has no legal grounding; nor does selecting an alternative citizenship for which that person is entitled to apply - leaving aside the likelihood that Bangladesh and other nations are highly unlikely to want us dumping our British terrorists and terrorist camp-followers on them.

It also opens the door to such powers being applied to other people and for other reasons. There are huge numbers of people in Britain with a foreign born parent or with eligibility to apply for a foreign citizenship through descent (e.g, a grandparent for Irish citizenship). There's no particular reason, once we make a practice of this, why we have to stop at terrorism or terrorism-by-association. We could use it for other crimes that disgust people: paedophilia, murder, rape, drug trafficking. The whole idea is pretty dodgy, especially if switched around and we face the possibility of other countries doing it to us - "British by descent" covers a lot of people in a lot of countries.

This is why, if Begum's loss of nationality is struck down by the courts, as it probably will be, we should probably consider ourselves lucky that the legal system is there to protect us against against government abuse of power.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Where ISIS came from and how it was created is no secret if you have read the books or articles or viewed the documentaries, yet ignorance among the general public is astounding, but not surprising since most people are too busy living comfortably or desperately with their own personal affairs and so just rely on the fake news of the MSM to get their daily dose of mis- and disinformation.

In a nutshell, the tribes of the Sunni minority who lost their ruling positions after the overthrow of Saddam were subjected to numerous brutal attacks by Shia militias. Sometimes whole villages were razed and the population massacred. Just as in the West, the desire for self-defense and a thirst for revenge finds a strong expression in Arab culture. And the rest is, of course, history. Tragic, innit?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

What happens to the citizenship of people when their state is conquered or eliminated entirely, like what happened when Nazi Germany and Stalin Russia carved up and wiped Poland off the map

0 ( +0 / -0 )

She’s a psychopath

This is unhelpful. The answer to why people so many people become Jihadis can’t be put down to psychopathy.

Honest and awkward questions need to be asked.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

ClippetyClopToday 03:22 pm JSTThese citizenship stripping laws are premised entirely on the idea that returnees will use their citizenship status to carry out imminent attacks in the west, but there is literally zero credible suspicion of that in this case.

'Literally zero credible suspicion' is a huge exaggeration; After all, she joined IS, the government will have a strong case that she is a danger to British citizens.

She hasn't expressed any regret for her actions! If she did I might've had a little sympathy but she hasn't and she has no desire to reform herself or her life. She ain't sorry for this. IS is just a bunch of thugs, criminal scum - and she has stated no regrets whatsoever.

Sorry, babe. You joined up with an entity that HATES the world, your nation and everything that isn't themselves - that is 'holier as thou'. IS is a bunch of fanatic hateful terror-mongers and now since they've took a thrashing you just want to pretend the past 4 years didn't happen, yet you won't renounce their hate crap!

She has to take responsibility for her stupid actions and face the consequences.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

@Jimizo,

she was quite comfortable seeing severed human heads in bins. And in fact was glad at the sight.

no sense of empathy, is fine with the bombing of civilians in the UK, feels a sense of entitlement to return and cant understand why shes not wanted there.

Shes a psychopath.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Exactly. Also she was a minor when she initially left the country on her misguided crusade.

You believe minors should never held accountable for any crimes they commit? The murderers of James Bulger should have been put on the naughty step instead of having the law applied to them? That's insane. For your information, the legal age of criminal responsibility in England and Wales is 10. That is the age when you are considered to know the difference between right and wrong. Begum and her mates weren't stupid or socially isolated, they knew what IS was when they left to join them.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Maybe that's how it's done under Assad & Putin but in the civilised world, let's hope she can rehabilitate and turn her life around.

She can and should do that without being allowed back into the country. She made her choice, now she needs to deal with the consequences, that’s her karma.

A complete lack of understanding regarding Islam and its many, many different outlooks and political views. Nope, too nuanced for some, let's stick them under the same umbrella.

Has nothing to do with anything, no one put a gun to her head. She made the decision to join ISIS.

Nobody is denying that there are wrong 'uns about. Of course there are. But to label them as all the same, all bent on invading/taking over/destroying values etc is disingenuous.

Uh-huh....

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

She left her country and joined a foreign military who's sole purpose is to destroy the West and does not regret it.

This is different than the IRA. The goal of the IRA was independence. The goal of ISIS is to murder everyone, everywhere, who does not agree with their ideology. Even if the US packed up and left the Middle East tomorrow, ISIS would never stop their terror campaign.

This woman chose to support a fanatical terrorist organization and as far as we know, she still does. She just doesn't like how she has to live. If she could get away with being a member of ISIS from her bedroom in her parents house, she would. She gave up her right to return home when she renounced her citizenship and took up arms against her own country.

She can find somewhere else that will accept her, because she has no right to return to the civilized world.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

She made her bed, now she has to live in it.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

hahahahahahaha

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Muslims all over the world should support the move by the UK government. If you were found somewhat to be involved in any terrorist activity, you should pay the price!

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Good move by the UK. She should stay and enjoy the fate of her ISIS family and friends.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Astounding how the simplest point when arguing whether Ms Begum can return to her home country is overlooked by so many emotionally overwrought posters.

Worse still, is the dishonesty and disingenuousness of the right-wing Home Secretary Javid who, in his position of responsibility, either willfully ignores the rule of law, or is abysmally stupid, not realizing that it is illegal to revoke a person's citizenship if the individual concerned is thereby rendered stateless. Is it any more complicated than this?

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

@Anonymous,

That wont do - you have to blame ‘the West’!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Apparently Bangladesh is refusing to take her. I'm not surprised. Why would they want her? So England is going to have to relent, unless she conveniently sits on a bomb first. Hopefully they can get her a nice long prison sentence. The kid will be cared for by her family, who screwed up raising one kid but hopefully will do a better job with this one. When the kid grows older it will be hard to keep the knowledge of all of this away from him, and that will not be fun.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6729561/Mass-grave-containing-3-500-victims-ISIS-found.html

In other news, a mass grave found near the Caliphate's capital, containing about 3,500 bodies. Now that is something to be shocked about.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Toasted Heretic Feb. 21  03:32 pm JST

Any and all punishments must be applied fairly and according to existing UK law, to the extent that UK crimes have been committed. That would apply to imprisonment, fines, revoking of citizenship or whatever. Not a matter for emotional responses.

Could that apply to domestic far right terrorists as well?

Did the person you replied to say anything about left or right?

Why is a political alignment being raised here? The person you replied to said nothing about political views.

He/She only said that laws should be applied to crimes. Don't politicize it.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Mrs Begum and her ill-named son ‘Jerah’ are well placed to live out their lives far away from the UK.....

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The ISIS way - Dig a trench, line them up, shoot each in turn, bury them all.

The Western Way - debate, argue, resign to letting them back, expensive trials, stick them in prison, provide healthcare for life, etc. rehabilitate and provide free training...

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Did the person you replied to say anything about left or right?

Why is a political alignment being raised here? The person you replied to said nothing about political views.

He/She only said that laws should be applied to crimes. Don't politicize it.

I'm curious as to whether the suggestion should apply equally across the board. It's a valid question to ask and yes, the poster didn't specify, which is why I asked.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

She's shocked....but by reading all the other comments...a lot of other people don't seem so shocked! Decisions have consequences. Joining a world renounced terrorist group.... has consequences. She should try Canada....I here they give them like 8 Million dollars of tax payers money!!! And welcome home! (Sorry....but true story) https://www.foxnews.com/world/omar-khadr-canada-pays-ex-gitmo-detainee-who-killed-us-soldier-millions-but-soldiers-widow-may-never-see-a-dime

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Wonder how many bombs you can build with 8 million bucks???

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Quentin Sommerville interview....

Shamima Begum in her own words. The question remains can this form of radialised Islamic fundamentalism ever accept the values of a British democratic, tolerant, decadent, society?

The tragedy is the baby child, who frankly didn't ask to born to a Mother, that could well succumb to the festering hatred and revile for the society Shamima Begum so despises.

So risking the potential radicalisation of that child.

Shamima Begum: 'I didn't want to be IS poster girl' - BBC News..........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGAxm6KJTWE

2 ( +3 / -1 )

She's not stateless. She's a citizen of the Islamic State.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@ jimmyBB

Ever heard of the SO-CALLED "Islamic State in Iraq and in Syria", the bastard offspring of the 2003 USUK invasion of Iraq, and still to this day unrecognized politically by its parents or any other "family" members of the "international community"?

Home Secretary Javid, whether a naive, out-of-his depth, Trumpish fantasizer, or a cunning, mendacious scoundrel, has shown himself unfit for office by claiming on the record that by revoking Ms Begum's citizenship he is not rendering her stateless!!?? Has Javid and those who espouse his nonsense never heard of Google to learn about what international law has to say on such a case?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

jimmyBB

Today 11:17 am JST

She's not stateless. She's a citizen of the Islamic State.

ISIS is not Islamic and they are not a true state. ISIS is a group of fanatic thugs who gleefully love to take credit for every terrorist act and massacre, whether they are responsible for it or not (as in the Orlando club shootout 3 years ago).

ISIS are NOT Muslims, they are murderers. And she chose to join this evil fanatical club and has shown no regret for joining. So why let her back home in the UK where could do that stuff again?

No repentance, no admittance. Sorry honey, you blew it.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

And to top it all now, she wants her child to come back to ( the infidel west ) sorry, the UK, and allow it to grow up with her parents! since she's been away on holiday ( or training ) for 4 years, that means her child was conceived in the UK but abroad, so the child can't be a 100% citizen, so would it be dual citizenship? IE part British and part where ever the child was born in. so, can the British government cancel/revoke 50% of the Childs citizenship ?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@brian wheway. Begum's son is British by descent and has full citizenship and the right of abode in the UK.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

“...fled her east London home to join the terror network...” Fled? Who was chasing them when she left?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

I'm shocked that she's shocked.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Begum’s father is from Bangladesh, let Mrs Begum go there to enjoy life in a Muslim country- cheaper to live than the UK!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Begum's dad was tracked down in Bangladesh by reporters. he condemned his daughter's actions and agrees that her UK citizenship should be removed.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

can the British government cancel/revoke 50% of the Childs citizenship ?

Why would they want to? What crime has a new-born baby committed?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Well, she deserved it. There's no point harboring citizens who have their hearts away from the government that raised and cared for them let alone the one fighting for the 'Caliphate' that not only kills infidels but also dreaming of turning Britain into one of their subject. She's fortunate not being shot on sight as in some countries. My advice to Mrs. May, do banish these people or anybody like her out of Britain forever. Maybe she could leave for Bangladesh or return to where her heart is, the Islamic State. Let her adore and worship their 'appointed' leaders al-Baghdadi. Fighting for IS that never recognise others rights but claiming for her rights as citizen after fighting for IS is not only stupid but represents a chronic failure of a thinking system, and Britain should never bother to re-admit such parasites into Britain. I would rather have such people be hung at the 'Old Bailey', period.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

“Shocked”? Not so much so that she loses her head I hope.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

LudditeToday 07:43 am JSTBegum's dad was tracked down in Bangladesh by reporters. he condemned his daughter's actions and agrees that her UK citizenship should be removed.

That ought to tell you something. Bangladesh may be mostly Muslim but remember - ISIL is NOT a bunch of Muslims, they are murderers. They've been waging a genocidal campaign against everyone who is not like them, even other Muslims. Everyone. And this teen girl voluntarily joined their evil 'jihad'.

cleoToday 08:22 am JSTcan the British government cancel/revoke 50% of the Childs citizenship ?

Why would they want to? What crime has a new-born baby committed?

I do feel quite a lot of sympathy for the child. The baby didn't ask to be born under these circumstances and as such has to suffer due to a stupid mother. I don't feel any sympathy for the dumb-butt renegade 19-year-old mother. She shall reap what she has sown. Problem is, the child is an unfortunate victim of circumstances.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

"Begum gave birth to her third child at the weekend, and appealed to British authorities to show "compassion" by allowing her to raise the baby in Britain -- while expressing no regret over having joined IS."

Ah, but of course! Raise more islamic terrorists inside the hated but wealthy kaffir country. I am glad that for now the UK has refused this, but the bleeding heart lefist morons in the media, entertainment, and academia will work hard to change that and get her in. Not optimistic about this.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

That ought to tell you something. Bangladesh may be mostly Muslim but remember - ISIL is NOT a bunch of Muslims, they are murderers.

Err, actually, ISIS are muslim BY DEFINITION. What do you think the "I" stands for? Their constitution is the Koran, and their stated policy is to remove all other religions. You might not like it, but you can not change reality to fit your wishful thinking.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Not all Muslims are ISIS, but all ISIS are Muslim.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

@starpunk

remember - ISIL is NOT a bunch of Muslims, they are murderers.

Actually, they are a bunch of Muslim murderers. Otherwise I agree with you.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

of course ISIS is a muslim group, I doubt they have Sunday school in churches

1 ( +2 / -1 )

This human being felt so entitled that she thought GB would accept her back with no issue.... I think the child should be removed from her as she is an obvious unfit mother who will indoctrinate the poor child with her disgusting world view.

The complete lack of remorse and comprehension of what she did should stick with her for the rest of her life. There is a reason it's called a "life choice" as in a single choice can affect the rest of your natural life with the consequences of that choice.

If Syria ever settles down, I think they should pass judgement on her as ISIS crimes were commited on their soil and she could be considered a POW.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

This human being felt so entitled that she thought GB would accept her back with no issue....

I just don't think she thought that far ahead. But yes, she is a human being and deserves to be treated as such, despite her terrible choices.

I think the child should be removed from her as she is an obvious unfit mother who will indoctrinate the poor child with her disgusting world view.

Might as well remove the children from all adults with unpalatable views, be they political, religious or otherwise.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

A typical millennial !

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Good one @starpunk, and who's the father, or fathers of these poor unfortunant children that you say should be brought back to Britain ?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I applaud the decision of the UK government to revoke her citizenship.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

A typical millennial !

?? She's not a millennial.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I applaud the decision of the UK government to revoke her citizenship.

Let's hope this is appealed and she can turn her life around. People can and do manage it. Badda boom!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I'm thinking of people like Manwar Ali (former Jihadist, now charity worker and speaker against radicalisation), and Maria Gatland (ex-active IRA member, now a Tory councillor).

It can be done. And whatever your politics/religion, it takes a certain amount of bravery and strength to turn away from the path of violence.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I'm sure it can be done.

But personally, I wouldn't want to try. I think that someone who casts off their country to go and support an organization like ISIS forfeits their right to live in society permanently.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

StrangerlandFeb. 26 04:31 pm JST

Not all Muslims are ISIS, but all ISIS are Muslim.

Like all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares - or the IRA + Loyalist factions in Northern Ireland aren't true Christians, but killers.

extankerFeb. 27 03:34 am JST

@starpunk

remember - ISIL is NOT a bunch of Muslims, they are murderers.

Actually, they are a bunch of Muslim murderers. Otherwise I agree with you.

And Christian fanatics in Northern Ireland and the Christian fanatics in America who kill abortion doctors + bomb their clinics are also 'Christian murderers/terrorists'.

Killing and destroying is not what any real religion is about. Fanatics make all religions look bad.

> Will GoodeFeb. 27 09:25 pm JSTGood one @starpunk, and who's the father, or fathers of these poor unfortunant children that you say should be brought back to Britain ?

It's obvious that the father (an ISIS member) doesn't seem to care about the child - that's why I sympathize with the unfortunate kids caught in the middle - but not the stupid mother. No way.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Like all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares - or the IRA + Loyalist factions in Northern Ireland aren't true Christians, but killers.

I agree, but my point is you cannot say ISIS are not Muslims. They very clearly are. They cannot be considered as the representatives of Islam, as there are clearly Muslims who do not think the way they do. But the idea that they aren't Muslim is incorrect, particularly since their ideals are born of Islam, even though it's the twisting of the religion to meet their nefarious goals.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

but not all rectangles are squares - or the IRA + Loyalist factions in Northern Ireland aren't true Christians, but killers.

Some would see themselves as such. As would the British forces and former RUC who colluded with loyalists.

Religion is often used as a justification for mayhem and murder. But with the occupied 6 counties, it's not as big a factor as tribalism and political disenfranchisement is. For both sides.

With the old guard mellowed, or gone, one can only hope a return to conflict is remote.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

But the idea that they aren't Muslim is incorrect, particularly since their ideals are born of Islam, even though it's the twisting of the religion to meet their nefarious goals.

I’m not sure ‘twisting’ is the right word and unhelpful when it comes to reform. It’s an interpretation with quite a lot of justification in the scriptures.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I’m not sure ‘twisting’ is the right word and unhelpful when it comes to reform. It’s an interpretation with quite a lot of justification in the scriptures.

Then how can so many Muslims live without these ideals?

As religion requires interpretation, all usage of religion is twisting it to one's own means as far as I'm concerned. People interpret religion to fit their own ends.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I’m not sure ‘twisting’ is the right word and unhelpful when it comes to reform. It’s an interpretation with quite a lot of justification in the scriptures.

Then how can so many Muslims live without these ideals?

There are far too many Muslims around the world who are sympathetic to the ISIS ideals, but you are correct that most don’t.

I agree that people will find what they want in the scriptures, but the reason why ‘twisting’ is the wrong word when talking about ISIS is that it implies distortion. The fundamentalist interpretation distorts the original texts far less than a modernist interpretation as they are staying closer to the 7th century morality which created them. A modern interpretation requires a great deal more twisting to make the texts more compatible with a 21st century morality and to reinterpret verses which are pretty clear and explicit in their 7th century barbarism.

The reason why ISIS were throwing gays off high places was because it is in the scriptures. There is no twisting here. The appalling treatment of gays in the Muslim world does still involve execution in some places, but thankfully a more ‘modern’ interpretation has seen this reduced to physical beating, imprisonment and terrible discrimination. I think this kind of twisting is a kind of progress but more twisting is clearly required.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Killing and destroying is not what any real religion is about. Fanatics make all religions look bad.

Just because you don't like what someone does in the name of a religion, doesn't make them not part of it. The IRA were still Christians just like ISIS are still Muslims.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Then how can so many Muslims live without these ideals?

Because they have made a personal choice as to how they themselves want follow their beliefs, and how they individually perceive their religious beliefs. The fanatical jihadists expect every Muslim to follow their specific interpretation of Islam. How else do we have the Taliban, ISIS, Iranian Khameini, SA, UAE government, etc? They all want the individual to follow their specific interpretation of Islam.

> As religion requires interpretation, all usage of religion is twisting it to one's own means as far as I'm concerned. People interpret religion to fit their own ends.

I have to agree with Jiz on this. I have a Qur'an... It's very specific about how "justified" the "true Muslim believer" are destroying the non-believers, enslaving others, subjugating women to lesser beings etc. It's a chronological mess to be honest.

But according to Islamic history, it started off based on Judaic and Christian perspectives, then evolved with it's founder from peaceful ideals to more violent and oppressive ideals. That's just the way it is. You can't change history to make it something it's not.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I mean, think about it... She thought ISIS was filled with "good, strong, Muslim MEN" who were fulfilling the best interpretation of the Qur'an! As did many other young Muslim girls who ran away to join them.... same with the men who apparantly believe they were fulfilling the best interpretation of the Qur'an....

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Muslim or not Muslim. Who really knows? God, if you believe in his or her or its existence.

That said, some, or rather many, of us Muslims who consider ourselves educated and liberal do not consider Isis and their ilk to be Muslims or representatives of Islam in any way whatsoever. Not that this matters to most of you here at japantoday - some of you guys don't even consider us educated, liberal Muslims as real Muslims haha! You think a 'real' Muslim must support, say FGM haha!

So anyway. Muslims of my type will not acknowledge those fellas as Muslims. You guys (non-Muslims mainly from the looks of it) insist they are. Let's leave it at that - we cannot convince each other otherwise. What this does mean, though, is that we won't be able to put our heads together to fix this problem. But that's ok - you guys know Muslims and Islam better than us Muslims, anyway (just as you know Japan and the Japanese better than the Japanese). So you guys figure out how to fix this mess - please.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@kikai

I’m very probably not as educated as you on Islam and so I have s question:

Why were ISIS throwing gays to their deaths from high places and where did they get this idea from? Please focus on the particular method of execution employed.

I’m genuinely interested. I’ve read the Koran and the hadiths ( in English, as I can’t read Arabic ), and I see many of the ideas of ISIS have justification in the scriptures.

Am I wrong?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

JImizo

I have read your past comments and I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe you're being sincere here. Please just assume you are right and that I cannot answer. I'll even give you a thumbs up. And again, please figure out how to fix this mess. With those 'real' Muslims.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@kikai

The question about ISIS throwing gays to their deaths from high places is a sincere one. Why would they do that? I’ve asked this question many times and nobody offers any answer.

Focusing on why people do things like this and offering honest answers is my idea of being sincere.

How to fix this is a difficult one. My honest take is that as long as people regard these scriptures as divine, there will be many who will carry out what is contained in them - the good things and the evil things. Twisting, cherry-picking the good, reinterpreting and just ignoring needs to be encouraged. This will take a very long time but encouraging it is a good start.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

So anyway. Muslims of my type will not acknowledge those fellas as Muslims.

What a coincidence. They don't think you're a true Muslim either from their perspective... think hard about that.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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