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Israel and Hamas agree to Gaza cease-fire

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Dear Hamas, if you'd stop condoning terrorist acts as "a natural response" to "occupation" you'd actually win a LOT more international support. This truce is just like all the other hundreds of thousands of truces because you still don't have a brain in your leadership on how real diplomacy wins support from abroad.

How was South African apartheid broken? Not by terrorism...

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Israel and Hamas agree to Gaza cease-fire

Until the next time they decide to shoot each other.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Hamas won't stop. Even if the rockets stop, the terror attacks will continue. The only way to end this conflict is to take down the terrorist. This conflict will start up again, just like last time. MIGHT I ADD, the last time they had a ceasefire, the next conflict(6 months later) was the Gaza War.

This ceasefire thing means NOTHING! Gaza will continue to conduct terror attacks on Israel and 6 months from now, Hamas will launch more rockets at Israel. It's a cycle and the only way to break that cycle is to kill off Hamas. You can stop terrorism. Japan did it and they haven't had a terror attack since the Tokyo subway sarin gas attack in 1995. The Japanese Red Army is gone, the Aum Shinri Kyo is all but demolished, and it is safe to say the Seikijuku is no longer a threat.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Ceasefire will last long enough for Hamas to resupply with rockets. They will fire a few at first and build up to an Israeli response.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Well, there's a bit of good news. Let's hope it lasts.

Oh, and peace goes both ways, people, with concessions from each side. Blaming everything on Hamas while Israel expands territory and goes in to attack innocents isn't exactly something to shine with pride and claim innocence over. If they both TRULY want peace it can't simply be Netanyahu's 'my way or the highway' approach while Hamas bends over to grab its ankles.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Let's hope it lasts.

It won't. It never does.

Blaming everything on Hamas while Israel expands territory and goes in to attack innocents isn't exactly something to shine with pride and claim innocence over.

Hamas has specifically said they will never make peace with Israel. You know the drill. Hamas' attitude leaves the door wide open for Israel not to make any positive changes. The Israeli right probably love this. It is the perfect excuse for them Asking Hamas to actually be willing to accept the idea of peace with Israel is not asking Hamas to bend over and grab their ankles. If you are going to discuss the problem, you have to look at Hamas' position honestly and realize nothing will change until they do.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Just as predicted.

Hamas has shot their available missiles, the other ones have been blown up, so they announce a "hudna", which the Western press mis-translates as a "ceasefire".

Now, Hamas will re-arm with Iranian long-range missiles (so easy now with the Muslim Brothers in charge of the Egypt/Gazah border), and the Western press will have a field day condemning Israel for its "aggression".

Same script as always.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

smithjapan:

" Well, there's a bit of good news. Let's hope it lasts. "

It lasts until Hamas has re-armed and re-stocked and is ready to launch missiles at Israel again. Give it a couple of months, tops.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Not much of a peace plan that Obama Admin has now that Hamas is more or less a direct negotiating partner. So much for not negotiating with terrorists. Hamas was thrilled that they got that last bus bombing in before the cease fire took affect. Hamas will never give up trying to kill Israelis and kill the Jewish state. They have no interest in peace what-so-ever. The US should be supporting Israeli's efforts to hunt down Hamas to the greatest extent possible. It was a mistake to try to provide a good faith gesture to Hamas by withdrawing from Gaza- they do not want peace. It will not be much longer before it will be retaken.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

If they both TRULY want peace it can't simply be Netanyahu's 'my way or the highway' approach while Hamas bends over to grab its ankles.

Does anyone seriously believe that Hamas wants peace? They keep telling everyone that they want to eliminate the state of Israel. How should Israel negotiate over with a terrorists organization over whether or not they should even exist?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

WilliB: "It lasts until Hamas has re-armed and re-stocked and is ready to launch missiles at Israel again. Give it a couple of months, tops."

I agree with you it's unlikely to last, but it's still not as one-sided as everyone makes it out to be.

slumdog: "If you are going to discuss the problem, you have to look at Hamas' position honestly and realize nothing will change until they do."

'Honestly', eh? I suppose you think Israel has no bias and does no wrong?

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

'Honestly', eh? I suppose you think Israel has no bias and does no wrong?

No, Israel has lots of bias and does lots of things wrong. I just could not help noticing you did not mention anything Hamas does wrong or even their official position on the matter in your previous post. Did I miss something you intended to be there?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

but it's still not as one-sided as everyone makes it out to be.

Both sides have lots of bias and do lots of things wrong. However, only one side has officially said they will never make peace with the other side and that is Hamas. How do you get around that?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Hamas has already broken the ceasefire with 5 rockets getting through Iron Dome.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Wolfpack:

" Does anyone seriously believe that Hamas wants peace? "

Apparently Hillary and Obama do.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Good but won't last

1 ( +1 / -0 )

firing has stopped for now

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

WilliB:

Apparently Hillary and Obama do.

Hamas want's to eradicate Israel from the Middle East. That is pretty the reason why they exist. But since these two are Liberals they do live in a fantasy world. I see no reason why the US continues to play this ridiculous charade.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

slumdog quote: "Both sides have lots of bias and do lots of things wrong. However, only one side has officially said they will never make peace with the other side and that is Hamas. How do you get around that?"

Reminds me of an angry wife. Insecurity makes her say things that defy logic.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

During the 8 days conflict, Israel spent the money like no more tomorrows. The reason is they do not need to concern about footing the bill. Iron dome missiles defense system is the most expensive one. One missile cost $62000 and battery cost 50 millions to run. It did not include the 1500 air strikes of Israel. If fuel for Fighters, Missiles and Bombs are included it is enough for employing half of currently unemployed Americans for up to three years.

The root cause of Israel spending spree is US politics is dominated by Jewish lobby group. Congress is so corrupted for supporting that wealthy businessmen and defense contractors. Gaza has lost 161 lives. The death of militants are less than a dozen. The rest are innocent civilians. Therefore all parties involved for funding Israel killing machine has blood on their hands. No wonder US has become third world sooner than later because of mounting bills.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

“I just hope they commit to peace,” said Abdel-Nasser al-Tom, from northern Gaza. However, a dozen rockets hit southern Israel until an hour after the cease-fire deadline

Kinda sums it up.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

smithinjapan

Blaming everything on Hamas while Israel expands territory and goes in to attack innocents isn't exactly something to shine with pride and claim innocence over. If they both TRULY want peace it can't simply be Netanyahu's 'my way or the highway' approach while Hamas bends over to grab its ankles.

Well said.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Tamarama,

The settlements, while wrong, are something that can be successfully discussed and gotten rid of in negotiations. Refusing to make peace, as Hamas continues to do, is hard to get around.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

A ceasefire? Good

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The root cause of Israel spending spree is

Hamas refusing to make peace. If Hamas were to ever give up violence and their goal of the destruction of Israel and say they wanted a land for peace deal, the pressure on Israel would be massive and world-wide.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I don't support Hamas for a second. But neither do I think Hamas, and their extremism and violence represent all Palestinians, even though they won the election in 2006. They did that with 44% of the 75% of the Gazan who voted. 1 in 3 Gazans actually voted for Hamas.

But you need balance in this argument - people can't just point the finger at Hamas whilst absolving Israel of their responsibilities in the crisis. They are both responsible.

Hamas, after all was only founded in 1987 - during the First Intifada, and I'm sure your grasp on the history of the region is such that you would realise that Israel had been hammering the Palestinians for the 40 years prior to that.

If you sustain the right kind of conditions for long enough, extreme forms of resistance begin to take root. Part of that is continuing to take more and more territory, and forcing people in to smaller and smaller enclaves.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

But neither do I think Hamas, and their extremism and violence represent all Palestinians

I don't think so either. However, Hamas is in control of Gaza and of the people in Gaza.

They are both responsible.

Agreed.

I'm sure your grasp on the history of the region is such that you would realise that Israel had been hammering the Palestinians for the 40 years prior to that.

They both hammered each other pretty well during that period, as well. As you said, both are responsible.

However, the reality is that both Israel and the PA have stated their support for a land for peace deal, two state deal. Hamas is against this and violently so. While both sides are responsible, only Hamas continues not to look to the future at all. Again, it is hard to get around this. You and I know the settlements will be gone the minute there is a deal. How can there be a deal if Hamas never gets on board? I think this is a very valid question.

Can you imagine the huge pressure Israel would be under if Hamas actually agreed to a real land for peace two state deal? It does not seem like that will ever happen though.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"while Hamas bends over to grab its ankles."

I'm still comfy on the fence, but I find it hard to believe people actually think Hamas ever does such as thing.

The Hamas manufactured this conflict, and can possibly be seen as the "winners" from the rubble today. Which leads me to believe that they actually need this decades-old stalemate to actually exist.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

However, the reality is that both Israel and the PA have stated their support for a land for peace deal, two state deal. Hamas is against this and violently so.

That's strange, Hamas has for years expressed its willingness to accept the existence of Israel based on the internationally recognized 1967 borders. Their leader has repeated this in recent days.

On the other hand, the Likud party platform states that there cannot be a Palestinian state between Jordan and the sea; and they have been and continue to progress in this direction, of wiping Palestine off the map. Furthermore, the Israeli and western governments have a big fit every time Palestinian officials seek UN recognition.

So it is clearly the Israelis who refuse to accept the existence of Palestine, not the other way around. How can there be a deal if Israel never gets on board? I think this is a very valid question.

You and I know the settlements will be gone the minute there is a deal.

That doesn't make much sense. Why build it in the first place? And when/if that happens, will they also restore all the Palestinian homes and villages that have been destroyed to make place for these "settlements"?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

That's strange, Hamas has for years expressed its willingness to accept the existence of Israel based on the internationally recognized 1967 borders.

No, I understand your confusion though. Hamas has offered a 10 year non-renewable truce in exchange for the West Bank and Gaza. They have stated clearly many times that they will never make peace with Israel. They have also stated that the final goal is the liberation of all of Israel. In addition, they have the destruction of Israel in their charter.

Their leader has repeated this in recent days.

That would be interesting news and a first for Hamas, if true. Link?

On the other hand, the Likud party platform states that there cannot be a Palestinian state between Jordan and the sea

Natanyahu recently stated his desire for peace based on the two state solution. So, your information seems to be outdated.

and they have been and continue to progress in this direction, of wiping Palestine off the map.

This is hyperbole, plain and simple. The PA and Hamas control more land than they did twenty years ago. While not nearly a solution to the problem, it is certainly not something that can be described as wiping anything off the map.

So it is clearly the Israelis who refuse to accept the existence of Palestine, not the other way around. How can there be a deal if Israel never gets on board? I think this is a very valid question.

As I said, Israel is on board, for your reference:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/netanyahu-to-abbas-israeli-unity-cabinet-is-a-new-opportunity-for-mideast-peace-1.430224

Netanyahu to Abbas: Israeli unity cabinet is a new opportunity for Mideast peace Netanyahu’s letter to Abbas earlier this week included the first ever pledge by the PM, in an official document, to establish a Palestinian state in line with the two-state solution.

That doesn't make much sense.

I never said it made sense. I am just saying what everyone knows will happen.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

That would be interesting news and a first for Hamas, if true. Link?

It was an exclusive interview with CNN's Christiane Amanpour. He also mentioned that Hamas was not behind the bus bombing.

If Israel returns to the internationally recognized 1967 borders, Hamas will negotiate. Israel refuses to follow International law, by refusing to return to the '67 borders.

and they have been and continue to progress in this direction, of wiping Palestine off the map.

This is hyperbole, plain and simple. The PA and Hamas control more land than they did twenty years ago. While not nearly a solution to the problem, it is certainly not something that can be described as wiping anything off the map.

Look at the maps of Palestine over the past 100 years. Palestine is being wiped off the map, plain and simple. What do you think they mean when they talk about expanding settlements. It means razing Palestinian homes and orchards and replacing them with fenced housing units for Jews only; subsidized by US taxpayers. Just weeks ago, Israel announced another massive settlement expansion project.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Washington blames Hamas rocket fire for the outbreak of violence and has backed Israel’s right to defend itself,

Washington must say that. If they acknowledged that Israel was responsible, then they would no longer be allowed to give weapons to Israel, which is a great source of revenue for the MIC at the expense of US taxpayers.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

"Residents hugged and kissed in celebration, while others distributed candy and waved Hamas flags".

How bias is the media and blind ! The residents danced not because of the cease fire! They were celebrating the bombing of the bus! Get the facts right!!!

Hamas is a terrorist group and need to be demolished !

Israel have a full right to defend itself !! Steric Hindracnce above: Israeli are paying for any weapons they buy... - they do have their own weapons !

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Hamas want a 2 state solution based on the pre-1967 borders. This is not a radical position - the UN proposed it in resolution 242 in 1971 and it has been a continual point of reference since.

Palestinians are often accused of rejecting pece when they turned down the Israeli proposed 'state' at the likes of Camp David - but have a look at this link;

http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/www.thejerusalemfund.org/carryover/maps/peace_david2.html

What state can you think of is separated into 4 seperate sections and divided by foreign territory?

The Arial Sharon led Likud party put any chance of realistic negotiation along those lines to bed after Taba.

Israel does continue to reduce the expand their settlements in the Occupied Territories and displace Palestinians - it's hardly a secret.

It may be an uncomfortable fact, but it's a fact nonetheless.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It was an exclusive interview with CNN's Christiane Amanpour

Thank you. I found it. As Ms. Amanpour points out, Mr. Meshaal's proposal is not realistic under international agreements. One, he wants right of return for all Palestinians to return to Israel. That is not going to happen. Two, he clearly states he will never recognize Israel.

I accept a state of the 1967. How can I accept Israel? They have occupied my land. I need recognition, not the Israelis.

Most of the interview was cross talk and his intentions are not entirely clear. However, I did not see him saying he believed in a two-state solution in return for peace. I see him basically continuing the same line of reasoning that Hamas has always suggested, which is a one-state solution. Obviously that would not be acceptable to Israel.

Look at the maps of Palestine

No, thank you. I am not interested in what happened or did not happen 100 or even 1000 years ago. It does not have anything to do with this discussion or what is going on now. I prefer to stay in the present.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Washington must say that.

Listen, that line of reasoning does not follow when Hamas has been shooting rockets all year long. Both sides antagonize each other all the time. I truly think Obama would love it if Hamas played things their way and stopped all the violence, renounced it and pledged to work for a two state peace. Obama would then be able to put the screws to Israel.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Hamas want a 2 state solution based on the pre-1967 borders.

They still do not seem to. I wish they did. See above. What I wrote about them still seems to be true.

Palestinians are often accused of rejecting pece when they turned down the Israeli proposed 'state' at the likes of Camp David - but have a look at this link;

I won't get into the details as there really is not much point. However, didn't Arafat walk out mid-talks? It would seem if you are going to go all the way around the world to talk for the first time about this, you would stick around until you got as much as you could. My impression is that Clinton thought there was more to talk about. I do remember that it was supposed to be somewhere in the 90 something percent range of the total territory given back in stages. Neither side is ever going to get everything they want and they both should stop hoping for it.

The Arial Sharon led Likud party put any chance of realistic negotiation along those lines to bed after Taba.

Exactly why leaving instead of staying and talking it out was a mistake by Arafat that has cost his people so many wasted lives since then.

It may be an uncomfortable fact, but it's a fact nonetheless.

Yes, but an even more uncomfortable fact is that without talks, they will never get the land back.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

What state can you think of is separated into 4 seperate sections and divided by foreign territory?

Even if the Palestinians got everything within the 67 borders, there would be two sections divided by foreign territory. How the heck is that ever going to work? Tunnels? Bridges? Anyway, they should have kept talking. Maybe they could have worked something out. It could not have been worse that what has been going on since then. How could it ever?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Even if the Palestinians got everything within the 67 borders, there would be two sections divided by foreign territory. How the heck is that ever going to work?

Indeed, that is why the one-state solution would be best. One state and equal rights for all, with right of return of course.

Anyway, you should have another listen to the interview. http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/

The Palestinians are offering peace if the Israelis end the illegal occupation.

No, thank you. I am not interested in what happened or did not happen 100 or even 1000 years ago. It does not have anything to do with this discussion or what is going on now. I prefer to stay in the present.

But somehow, we are all expected to believe that thousands of years ago god promised this land to the Jews? That is why they've been kicking the Palestinians off their land, isn't it.

Anyway, wiping Palestine off the map did start many decades ago, but it continues today, in the present.

Yes, but an even more uncomfortable fact is that without talks, they will never get the land back.

Its crystal clear that even with talks, Israel will never stop occupying land that does not belong to them. That is why Hamas does not want to negotiate, because the Israelis won't even consider returning to the '67 border.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Hamas has been shooting rockets all year long.

Stop ignoring the proven fact that the ones who broke the ceasefire was Israel, on Nov 8 when they murdered a child playing soccer. Then they killed two more children, and later fired at their funeral.

These are important facts that the controlled media ignores, leading uninformed people to think that this is all a result of the Hamas rockets.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Indeed, that is why the one-state solution would be best. One state and equal rights for all, with right of return of course.

You do realize that that would mean the destruction of Israel, right? I can see them agreeing to that. Can you?

Anyway, you should have another listen to the interview.

That's where I got my quote and why I thanked you for suggesting it. As I wrote, Hamas is not interested in recognizing Israel after it gets the West Bank and Gaza and will not give up on the unrealistic desire to have the Palestinian diaspora return to Israel. It just will not happen. There will be huge compensation, of that I am sure, But, right of return will not be any part of any agreement. Israel cannot afford it to be.

But somehow, we are all expected to believe

I am certainly not expecting you or anyone else to believe anything of the sort. My no thanks goes for that stuff, too.

but it continues today, in the present.

The land is still there, it is still called occupied land. Everyone knows it is going to go back to the Palestinans. Not really anything to argue about here, except the parties actually making it happen.

Its crystal clear that even with talks, Israel will never stop occupying land that does not belong to them.

Hamas is in Gaza, not Israel. Hamas is the govenment in Gaza, not Israel. This was not true ten years ago. Netanyahu, not that I trust him either, did say in the link I put above that he is willing to work for peace in line with the two state solution. I don't know the details, but it would be nice of the PA, Hamas and Israel would at least be willing to talk to each other.

That is why Hamas does not want to negotiate

Thank you for confirming my point about Hamas.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Netanyahu, not that I trust him either, did say in the link I put above that he is willing to work for peace in line with the two state solution.

Yeah, a two-state solution on Israel's terms, where they hold onto almost all of the illegally occupied land, land that the entire world says must be returned to Palestine. Just because he says nice words... and even you acknowledge that he can't be trusted.

The land is still there, it is still called occupied land. Everyone knows it is going to go back to the Palestinans.

The Israelis have no intention to ever give it back. They have made that very clear many times.

Indeed, that is why the one-state solution would be best. One state and equal rights for all, with right of return of course.

You do realize that that would mean the destruction of Israel, right? I can see them agreeing to that. Can you?

Who said they need to agree? Did the Palestinians agree to the current setup? No!

But, right of return will not be any part of any agreement.

Why? Are Israelis that racist, that they won't allow non-jews to return to their homes, where they were born, where their parents, grandparents, great grandparents, ... were born? But they will allow any Jew from any country to live on this land!

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Just because he says nice words

Hamas has yet to say them.

As to the rest of your post, I see no point in continuing. You clearly do not agree with the two state solution. I do. You clearly see no solution but the elimination of Israel. I don't. There is nothing more to discuss.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Just because he says nice words

Hamas has yet to say them.

Because you refuse to hear them. Listen to the interview again: http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/

Contrast that to Bibi's words: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TG0vdzrmt4

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Steric Hindrance: Indeed, that is why the one-state solution would be best. One state and equal rights for all, with right of return of course.

You should begin all of your conversations on the matter with this. Everything else is just window dressing.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Because you refuse to hear them

I heard them and you. You both seem to agree that the one state solution in which Israel disappears is the only solution. Nobody will agree to that. Your argument is finished before it even started.

Contrast that to Bibi's words

His words from 2001? Why did you waste my time? I gave you quotes from earlier this week and you counter with quotes from 2001?

Anyone that starts off with suggestions of illegitimacy of either Israel or Palestine as already lost my interest. Your argument is a non-starter.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

You should begin all of your conversations on the matter with this. Everything else is just window dressing

Well put.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Stop ignoring the proven fact that the ones who broke the ceasefire was Israel, on Nov 8

I am not ignoring anything. You seem to be ignoring rockets. Approximately 24 were shot from Gaza into Israel from October 29th to November 4th. From Gaza, there has not been any ceasefire. The rockets have been shot all year long.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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