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Israel, Hamas defy truce calls on Gaza's bloodiest day

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Hamas is isolated. Turkey, Lebanon, Iran, Egypt and the rest of the muslim world don't care abouth them pigs anymore. Nobody is brokering for peace and Hamas has no way out of this mess just like the old times. They will either accept defeat and cease firing their rockets and suffer humiliation or bring the whole Gaza people into oblivion.

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

Correction. The conflict started when Israel blamed Hamas of kidnapping the three teenagers without proof and in the face of Hamas's denials and used this as an excuse to brutalize and kill innocent Palestinians.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

Hamas has videos uploaded of its members pushing carts loaded with missiles into civilian areas before firing. No-one should be surprised at the numbers of civilian casualties there. The responsibility lies with the Hamas leaders.

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mikihouseJul. 13, 2014 - 07:44AM JST Hamas is isolated. Turkey, Lebanon, Iran, Egypt and the rest of the muslim world don't care abouth them pigs anymore.

Hamas didn't make those rockets out of bottles of cola and mentos. They're clearly getting support from surrounding countries, and in all likelihood most of the Hamas operatives aren't even Palestinian.

And one can't even blame Palestine for not keeping Hamas out, they have no real law enforcement left, and their borders are unpatrolled.

8 ( +9 / -2 )

The conflict did not start with the kidnapping and murder of the 3 Israeli teenagers. That may have played a part in the escalation but rockets into Israel started when Israel left Gaza in 2005.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

The conflict did not start with the kidnapping and murder of the 3 Israeli teenagers. That may have played a part in the escalation but rockets into Israel started when Israel left Gaza in 2005.

...since when we've had the relentless killing of innocents, the denial of basic human rights through the Gaza blockade (including murder on the high seas), and utter disdain for international law and public opinion.

NOTHING happens in isolation.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

If you want talk about 2005 you have to talk about stealing land from Palestinians and like matters. Let us stick to the present. Let jog the faulty memories of a few posters. Israel maimed and killed Palestinians right after those teenagers were kidnapped where there was no proof of who did it. There is no proof yet. Then a Palestinian child was burned to death. The Israelis know who did that but aren't saying who. Then Palestinian anger exploded Israel responded and Hamas came in with their ineffectual rockets that at best disrupted Israeli cocktail hour.

Hamas's rockets are worse than useless. They do not kill anyone, thank goodness, and only create an excuse for Israel to kill more Palestinians. If there were no more Hamas Netanyahu would invent a new Hamas.

Read Israel's English language press to get another perspective on this. There are sincere Israeli Jews, like Peace Now, who do not like what their government has been doing to the Palestinians.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Hamas’s Haniya sounded a similar tone, saying: “(Israel) is the one that started this aggression and it must stop, because we are (simply) defending ourselves

From a group whose sole purpose it to destroy Israel?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

What Netanyahu really fears as a hawk is those things that threaten him politically:

He fears and wants to destroy the recent Fatah-Hamas rapprochement.

He fears and wants to destroy the global momentum towards Palestinian statehood.

Most of all, he fears (and seems hell-bent on destroying) peace between Israelis and Palestinians, because he's no De Klerk (I do so hope he can prove me wrong on this).

Israel/Palestine could be a role model for everyone in conflict. All it takes is courage. Man up, Bibi!

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Then a Palestinian child was burned to death. The Israelis know who did that but aren't saying who.

They have been arrested and charged, not to mention condemned throughout the country. The killers of the 3 Israelis however are still hiding out there, and the mother of one of the suspects has said publicly that if in fact her son did kill them, she is proud of him.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Not 1 Israeli has been killed by these rocket attacks, yet Israel retaliates with mass punishment for a population that are effectively living in an ever increasing ghetto?

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Not 1 Israeli has been killed by these rocket attacks,

The reason the Israeli civilian casualties are always low is that Israel has invested in a huge network of bomb shelters; Israel has developed an early-warning system and had its best minds work on the “Iron Dome”.

Meanwhile, Hamas has gone in the opposite direction. At a minimum, the Hamas government, the recipient of millions in foreign aid, could have set up a shelter system for its civilian population. Instead it has simply chosen not to because, as one Palestinian journalist puts it, “They don’t care.” Dead civilians are more useful than live ones.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Sensenotsocommon:

" ..since when we've had the relentless killing of innocents, the denial of basic human rights through the Gaza blockade (including murder on the high seas), and utter disdain for international law and public opinion. "

The relentless killings are done by Hamas, with their terrorism against both Israel and its domestic political opponents (google for those videos of Hamas thugs throwing Fatah members off roofs in Gazah town when they took power), and Israel is supplying Gaza with water and electricity, which is never paid for. That Israel controls materials going in to Gazah is a given, considering that Hamas stated purpose is the destruction of Israel. Do you really expect Israel to let long-range rockets freely pass into Gazah, which are then fired on Israel? What government would do that?

By the way, Egypt also controls its border with Gazah, although less effectively. Why don´t you lambast Egypt in the same way?

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

I hope this sets the record straight for all the Israeli apologists here. This article is from a Jewish non-profit organization in DC and well researched. Basically, over the years, it's Israel that is firing first and the Hamas rockets are in retaliation.

http://antiwar.com/blog/2014/02/06/the-truth-about-cease-fire-violations-between-israel-and-gaza/

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

You can support the average Palestinian while criticizing Hamas and their role in the conflict.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

How, exactly?

Last year Hamas used 24,000 Israeli concrete slabs which the IDF had permitted into Gaza to ease the crisis in the civilian construction sector, to build a terror tunnel, complete with electricity and phone lines right into the heart of Israel, with the goal of kidnapping Israelis. Hamas invested tens of millions of dollars into building this. Instead of investing in schools, or civilian industry and employment.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Israel will milk the opportunity to pound Gaza for all it's worth before they are forced to quit by external pressure, killing as many Palestinians as possible in the process.

Palestinian 'rockets' are often home made and barely resemble projectiles at all. They are lucky if they land within the general vicinity of their target, and often don't explode.

What Israel does to Palestine is a crime, plain and simple.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Israel just announced that they will bomb the area quite heavily in the next 24 hours and the ground troops went in briefly to warn the residents of the incoming air raid. But yeah, Hamas hides behind the women and children and hope that they many more children and mothers will die. Hate the Hamas. Hate these pigs. Curse their form of Islam.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Palestinian 'rockets' are often home made and barely resemble projectiles at all. They are lucky if they land within the general vicinity of their target, and often don't explode.

Be patient. They will get more and more sophisticated.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Israel has announced it will bomb the ghetto quite heavily for the next 24 hrs? And ground troops went in briefly ? Point 1 bomb the area..throw shells into an area that is packed due to the walls constructed to confine the population, creating a heavily occupied area? Point 2. Last time Israeli troops went in "briefly" they destroyed schools and basic infrastructure. Mass punishment, in response to .....no deaths in Isreal? Mass punishment was made a war crime because of the atrocious behaviour of German forces durning ww2. Ironic.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

TamaramaJul. 13, 2014 - 01:04PM JST Israel will milk the opportunity to pound Gaza for all it's worth before they are forced to quit by external pressure, killing as many Palestinians as possible in the process.

I'm afraid you're right. The bottom line is one of space, and Israel is intent on expansion. I remember in the 1980's I had Israeli friends who were PAID to go and live in Israel. Israel knew back then that it intended to expand, and it knew it would heighten tensions. This is, was and has always been part of the Israeli agenda.

Palestinian 'rockets' are often home made and barely resemble projectiles at all. They are lucky if they land within the general vicinity of their target, and often don't explode.

The qassam rockets are simple, but Israel has clamped down on the inflow of components, such as steel, sugar and fertilizer, which seriously hurts a number of legitimate industries, like farming, most manufacturing, etc. Intelligence reports have repeatedly stated that a most are manufactured outside of Palestine as it is much easier to smuggle in 5 kilos of rocket fuel than tons of fertilizer to distill the fuel from.

What Israel does to Palestine is a crime, plain and simple.

Agreed. But the same could be said for Israel's number 1 supporter, the U.S. and the U.S. approach to counter-terrorism in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, which also killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Netanyahu is a warmonger and always has been. He'll take any opportunity to kill Palestinians. How can it be fair that over 150 Palestinians have been killed yet zero Israelis? Not saying any killing is good but that is not a fair fight.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

SuperLib

Be patient. They will get more and more sophisticated.

How?

Agreed. But the same could be said for Israel's number 1 supporter, the U.S. and the U.S. approach to counter-terrorism in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan, which also killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.

Absolutely Frungy. They could also be considered criminal for their continual support of Israel and it's heinous actions in the face of overwhelming international sentiment against. In fact, if you look at all of the UN resolutions drawn up against Israel and their actions of terror over the years, there are almost always only two votes against - one of course is Israel, and the other is the US. And the US has the power of veto over the resolutions.

It's a scandal really.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Iran will have Hamas kill every Palestinian if it means harm would come to Israel.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

... and Hamas came in with their ineffectual rockets that at best disrupted Israeli cocktail hour.

That statement is both erroneous and unfair. Hundreds of thousands of Israelis continue to be terrorized by the constant barrage of incoming Hamas missiles. Red alerts and missile warnings go off almost constantly, confining most of these people to bomb shelters for hours on end. Not exactly "cocktail hour", is it?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

How can it be fair that over 150 Palestinians have been killed yet zero Israelis?

What would you have Israel do? Keep their citizens out of shelters so that the numbers even out a bit? Stop using the Iron Dome?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

japonaiseJUL. 13, 2014 - 05:39PM JST

How can it be fair that over 150 Palestinians have been killed yet zero Israelis?

What would you have Israel do? Keep their citizens out of shelters so that the numbers even out a bit? Stop using the Iron Dome?

Pretty dismissive of so many Palestinian deaths for someone who claims to be Palestinian..

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Pretty dismissive of so many Palestinian deaths for someone who claims to be Palestinian..

Actually, it has always seem to me to be Hamas that has been extremely dismissive of so many Palestinian deaths. Hamas has never had any interest in a real peace with Israel and consistently has worked to destroy any peace process. There could have been peace, if there were a Palestinian government that was really willing to make it happen.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

slumdog

I'd say exactly the same thing about the Israeli side. They continue to break agreements regarding land grabs and building settlements on Palestinian territory. They always push the Palestinians into corners.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

serendipitous

The Israelis are not dismissive of Israeli deaths. Hamas is quite so of Palestinian deaths. That is my point. Do both sides break truces and do other lousy stuff? Yes. However, Hamas is the only one that absolutely refuses to make peace with Israel or even entertain the idea of it. Hamas is consistent in this. They have repeatedly said they are not interested in or ever intend on making peace with Israel. When the PLA has expressed interest in talks with Israel, Hamas has steadfastly been against them. I am not sure how one is expected to get around that.

The rockets do nothing but bring misery to Gaza, every single time they are trotted out and used on Israel. Hamas are not on the side of the Palestinians, that is for sure.

They always push the Palestinians into corners.

Always? You mean like when Israel pulled out of Gaza unilaterally? That should have been the beginning of something wonderful for the Palestinians instead of the beginning of more misery.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Pretty dismissive of so many Palestinian deaths for someone who claims to be Palestinian..

Why do you find it so hard to believe that there are Palestinians who do not love Hamas?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The people in the Ghaze living in 18 km long and 10 wide strip, 5000 people per Km, surrounded by the Israeli from every side even from the see. This is a living Jail where about 2 million human beings are living even the humanitarian access is banned, The Americans brought their own crony in Egypt in order to black the only way to Ghaze. almost every 2 or 3 years these human beings got bombing from the Israeli jets.

The innocent women and children are being killed in these bombing and the Jews ,who brought by the Israeli and settled them on the occupied land, are now watching from the roof of their buildings and enjoying the bombing on the innocent people.

Gradually the Israeli grabbed all the land of Palestine, bulldozed their houses, killing them putting them in Jails and the world is silent, how peace can persist if such heinous crime continue against the humanity.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

how peace can persist if such heinous crime continue against the humanity.

Hamas and its followers and merely innocent victims in this "story"?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Many Palestinians have refused to surrender to decades of Israeli-Zionist terrorism. They have not accepted their land -- land which they lived on for over a thousand years at least -- being taken from them by ethnic cleansing, and have not accepted their status as refugees in the Bantustans that Israel forced upon them.

That is their main crime: the crime of not surrendering to terrorism and fighting back.

Remember, we are talking about European Jews who, with no provable lineage to King David other than of the imagination and the romantic fantasies of Bible believers, were making plans to remove Arabs from their lands around the turn of the 20th century -- before Nazi Germany.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

That is their main crime: the crime of not surrendering to terrorism and fighting back.

No. Their leaders's 'main crime' has been not negotiating for a land for peace deal as presribed by the UN. If they had done so, they would have had their land and country decades ago.

Remember, we are talking about

Please spare me the askewed history lesson unless you are prepared to give back the US to the native people that it was stolen from. How exactly do you think those 13 colonies made it all the way to the Pacific coast anyway? This is about the situation now and the solution is a land for peace deal. Fighting has gotten the Palestinians very little in terms of real improvements on the ground. Amazing that you cannot see this.

Gradually the Israeli grabbed all the land of Palestine

Israel left Gaza unilaterally in 2005. The soldiers and settlers were gone. Negotiations were in the works for Palestinian border control. Palestinians were dancing in the streets and celebrating the future...until Hamas started smuggling weapons from Egypts and shooting rockets. The current situation in Gaza rest squarely on the shoulders of Hamas leaders as does the responsibility for the current crisis.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

No. Their leaders's 'main crime' has been not negotiating for a land for peace deal as presribed by the UN. If they had done so, they would have had their land and country decades ago.

No. This is completely untrue. Land for peace the way the Israelis offer it is a surrender. The Israelis believe in a "right of return" of Jewish people whose ancestors never lived in the land in the first place. They deny the right of return to Palestinian Arabs who lived there a few decades ago. It's a massive double-standard that only a complete fool would buy as a fair deal.

Please spare me the askewed history lesson unless you are prepared to give back the US to the native people that it was stolen from.

It's an irrelevant deflection except for one thing: I completely agree that lands taken from natives here were complete theft and genocide. In that, the situation is exactly the same with Zionist Israel. The main difference is that native North Americans did not have the cultural and religious affinity with millions more in the region. Amazing how you believe outright theft and ethnic cleansing can be successfully gotten away with just because the Americans got away with it.

Israel left Gaza unilaterally in 2005. The soldiers and settlers were gone. Negotiations were in the works for Palestinian border control. Palestinians were dancing in the streets and celebrating the future...until Hamas started smuggling weapons from Egypts and shooting rockets.

Talk about "askewed history." You need to hear what an Israeli general has to say (via his son):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etXAm-OylQQ

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

No. This is completely untrue.

No. it is completely true. Land for peace is the prescribed UN solution. Israel has stated they are for it. Hamas has stated they are against it. Both sides would have right of return for their own land. I have no idea what you are talking about.

It's an irrelevant deflection except for one thing

Why? Because it is your country? It's okay not to give it back when you do it?

I completely agree that lands taken from natives here were complete theft and genocide

Then, according to you, it should be given back. Why isn't it?

The main difference is that native North Americans did not have

? So, it was their land that was stolen. What you wrote is irrelevant, speaking of deflections. You basically wrote an excuse for genocide and theft and expect me to accept it. No, thanks.

Amazing how you believe outright theft and ethnic cleansing can be successfully gotten away with just because the Americans got away with it.

? I am for a land for peace deal as described in the UN resolutions. Israel has negotiated with the Palestinians and that has resulted in an armed Palestinian force in the occupied territories. Israel has accepted that the two state solution is the solution several times. Even Netanyahu has stated this. Hamas is against it, completely.

So, it is Hamas that believes in theft and ethnic cleansing, not me.

Talk about "askewed history

There are huge holes in the 'history' you provided above. I cannot be bothered going into them. However, what I wrote about the Gaza unilateral pullout is true. The Palestinians were dancing in the streets. Gazans were freely and legally crossing the border into Egypt for the first time ever, including all those years when Egypt held it. You provide a youtube video by one man and claim this is 'history' just because the man's father was a general? That is not history, that is one man's opinion.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

With the Palestinian death toll at 151, and with no Israelis killed,

Just a flesh wound...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4&feature=kp

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Both sides would have right of return for their own land.

Israel does not accept a right to return by Palestinians to lands which Israel stole from them. Period. Israel left Gaza, but Gaza was never part of the land the Zionists feel was there's by decree thousands of years ago.

So, it was their land that was stolen. What you wrote is irrelevant, speaking of deflections. You basically wrote an excuse for genocide and theft and expect me to accept it. No, thanks.

Wrong. I wrote in agreement that Zionist ethnic cleansing and land theft closely compares to what the native North American endured. One major difference is that the Native Americans don't have anyone on their side powerful and numerous enough to press their case. As awful as life is on many reservations, it is a bed of roses compared to what the Palestinians have to endure at the hand of the Israelis.

So, it is Hamas that believes in theft and ethnic cleansing, not me.

This is not about you. It is about Israel. Many of the Arabs still have deeds for the lands that Israel stole from them. Remember, we are talking about European Zionists of various factions, the most zealous of which planned and executed the forced removal of Palestinians from their lands. These were European Jews with no verifiable connection to the land whatsoever. And they utterly rejected the U.N. partition of 1947, even though it gave 55% of the land of Palestine to roughly 30% of the people.

The Palestinians were dancing in the streets.

Dancing in the streets is not a reliable historical indicator of anything. It's a rather childish assertion. I was once a very staunch supporter of the Israeli side, but after doing more thorough research there is no way I can support ethnic cleansing and terrorism. As the Israeli general has asserted (via his son, who has continued his work): it is the Israelis who are the biggest employers of terror tactics by far.

The main wrinkle for Israel are the Torah-observant Jews who consider this manufactured state via theft and destruction of human life to be a stain on the soul of their faith.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

@Japonaise,

Why do you find it so hard to believe that there are Palestinians who do not love Hamas?

(Why am I reminded of IDF PR and Israeli government spin?)

Nowhere have I mentioned that Palestinians should love Hamas. But it's not about me. It's about your fellow Palestinians @Japonaise, a religiously and politically diverse population with the same hopes and dreams, fears and foibles as the rest of us.

What Benyamin Natanyahu fails to understand is that in collectively punishing a whole population, he is Hamas' most powerful recruiting sergeant.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Israel does not accept a right to return by Palestinians to lands which Israel stole from them.

Right of return to Israel? No, Israel does not accept that. This is not an issue that was ever on the table and it was not a major issue in past negotiations. There is no reason to believe Israel would accept the destruction of their own state. Just as there is no reason to believe that Palestinians will accept right of return for Israelis forced to leave the areas of that will comprise the future state of Palestine.

BTW, the land was not stolen. It was attained as a result of wars. There is a huge difference. The land that the PLA now controls is much larger than it was 4o years ago.

As awful as life is on many reservations, it is a bed of roses compared to what the Palestinians have to endure at the hand of the Israelis.

No, the major difference is that the Palestinians can negotiate and get their own country. Native Americans will never get it back. Palestinians in the West Bank are quite a bit better of than Native Americans on reservations. You should consider removing your rose colored glasses.

And they utterly rejected the U.N. partition of 1947, even though it gave 55% of the land of Palestine to roughly 30% of the people.

? The Arab Palestinians rejected the partion plan, not the Jewish Palestinians. The Jewish Palestinians were for partition.

Dancing in the streets is not a reliable historical indicator of anything.

Of course it is. It was seen as a positive development and it was a positive development. Progress is a good thing. It should have continued to have been a good thing. You completely neglect the fact that the border was able to be crossed by Palestinians for the first time. These was consider wholly positive things by the Gazans themselves.

but after doing more thorough research there is no way I can support ethnic cleansing and terrorism

You seem to be suggesting Israel should just give up and go somewhere else and that is a rather ridiculous suggestion. Israel exists and the sooner the Palestinians come to terms with this and negotiate seriously, the sooner they will get their country. The terror is being committed by Hamas in their continued desire to destroy Israel instead of working for peace.

I was once a very staunch supporter of the Israeli side

I find this hard to believe.

The main wrinkle for Israel are the Torah-observant Jews

? They have little to do with anything. The main wrinkle is that people are willing to continue to give Hamas a free pass on terrorism. Hamas does not want peace. I cannot understand anyone defending this stance.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Right of return to Israel? No, Israel does not accept that. This is not an issue that was ever on the table and it was not a major issue in past negotiations.

At the turn of the 20th century, Jewish people constituted about 10% of the land called Palestine. They had co-existed with their Arab, largely Muslin neighbors for centuries. The lands did not belong to Jews out of proportion with their population. In Europe, Zionist movements sprang up, some of which had the radical aim of getting the land away from Arabs by any means necessary and giving it to European Jews -- Jews that had no historical, genealogical link to the land in the first place. These Jews had no "right of return." It was a right concocted out of complete fantasy.

The ensuing ethnic cleansing and theft of homes and lands represents horrendous shame to a true Jew. The Jewish faith does not countenance what these Zionists have done.

BTW, the land was not stolen. It was attained as a result of wars.

When Israel was declared, the hard-line Zionists (Ben-Gurion and his faction) did not accept any borders, and completely rejected the borders specified by the UN partition of 1947 -- which gave over half the land to them, even though they represented only a third of the population. The Palestinian Arabs had no army to speak of, but they could read the writing on the wall, with increased Jewish immigration. By contrast, the Zionists had over 40,000 highly trained and well-equipped forces.

Remember that line in Patton when he said give him some troops and a few weeks and he have a war with Russia and make it look like they started it? That's exactly what the Zionists did in Palestine. The former head of Israel's Mapam Party, Simha Flapan, covers this in extraordinary detail in his book, The Birth of Israel.

You have completely bought into myth. Myth.

Native Americans will never get it back.

Unlike Palestinian Arabs, native Americans did not have deeds to lands, nor did they believe in private land ownership. Many Arabs who are still alive have the deeds to lands that Israel stole from them. As such, they have a far stronger legal standing, from a western viewpoint. There are a great number of Jews willing to come forward and admit that what Israel did to these people was completely wrong. There can't be much of a real Jewish homeland when it is based upon murder and theft; such are antithetical to the teachings of the Torah.

And that is another major difference between historical Israel and native Americans: a monotheistic faith that forms the basis of the western moral code. (Not that that helped native Americans in any way; on the contrary.)

An Israel that is antithetical to Torah is setting itself up for its own eventual destruction.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

At the turn of the 20th century, Jewish people constituted about 10% of the land called Palestine. They had co-existed with their Arab, largely Muslin neighbors for centuries.

You keep writing this. Are you aware that they were second class (or lower) residents of their respective countries? Perhaps they wanted more than this. Anyway, you want to keep going on and on about things that happened more than a hundred years ago. They have nothing to do with what is going on now. Israel exists and has existed for more than 60 years. The Palestinians have to deal with this reality.

When Israel was declared, the hard-line Zionists (Ben-Gurion and his faction) did not accept any borders, and completely rejected the borders specified by the UN partition of 1947 -- which gave over half the land to them, even though they represented only a third of the population.

Sigh. Incorrect, Ben Gurion was for the partition plan. His group, Haganah, fought against the Jewish extremists and won control. The majority of Jewish Palestinians were in favor of the partition agreement. It was the majority, almost without exception, of Arab Palestinians that were against partition. The surrounding Arab countries were also against the partition plan and they made it clear that they would not let it stand. This is not a myth. This is a matter of history and fact. The surrounding Arab armies easily outnumbered the Jewish Palestinian numbers. This is also a fact.

That's exactly what the Zionists did in Palestine.

No. Both sides prepared for what they knew was going to be a war. However, one side, the Jewish Palestinians, stated publically that they were for partition and one side, the Arab Palestinians and the surrounding Arab countries, were firmly and publically against it.

Unlike Palestinian Arabs, native Americans did not have deeds to lands, nor did they believe in private land ownership.

Stolen is stolen. There was no war in terms of what was done to the Native Americans. It was a slaughter. With the birth of Israel, there was a war. One side won and one side lost. The side that lost was also against partition. The side that lost gained the West Bank and Gaza strip amongst other pieces of land and they did not give it to the Palestinians. They kept it for themselves until again they went to war against Israel and again lost more land. Suddenly the world started to shout about that land being given to the Palestinians, not before that.

Your discussion of religious books and such has no place in the current discussion. The reality is Israel exists and the Palestinians have to deal with it and negotiate. To not do so is to continue on their current path of misery.

Do you believe in a two state solution, yabits? What do you believe the solution is? Please, no more pseudo history lessons. I have pointed out two huge mistakes you have made recently: Rabin and Ben Gurion and I think that should be enough to show you you should stay in the present and discuss what the present day issues instead.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Stolen is stolen. There was no war in terms of what was done to the Native Americans. It was a slaughter. With the birth of Israel, there was a war. One side won and one side lost. The side that lost was also against partition. The side that lost gained the West Bank and Gaza strip amongst other pieces of land and they did not give it to the Palestinians. They kept it for themselves until again they went to war against Israel and again lost more land. Suddenly the world started to shout about that land being given to the Palestinians, not before that.

You think like a child, full of jealousy and envy. Typical Zionist.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

No. Both sides prepared for what they knew was going to be a war. However, one side, the Jewish Palestinians, stated publically that they were for partition and one side, the Arab Palestinians and the surrounding Arab countries, were firmly and publically against it.

This is myth. Pure fantasy. Zionists from the beginning never would accept a partition that included an independent Palestinian state, and took every means to undermine such an outcome despite public pronouncements. The public statements were merely part of the subterfuge, as Prime Minister Menachem Begin claimed in 1982, referring to Ben-Gurion's tactics.

You actually believe that Zionists would accept a partition that did not include their full control of Jerusalem? Really?

At least give the Arabs some credit for knowing what's what. @fizzbit: This is not the typical Zionist. The real Zionist knows what's what too. This is just a typical person who has duped himself.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

All this anti-Zionist talk is pointless.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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