Israel destroys Hamas homes, flattens Gaza mosque

1 down 4 to go.

Hamas are too stupid to get the message and keep provoking Israel, so they shouldn't act surprised at retaliation. They are like a retarded child who keeps poking a hornets nest. Fundamentalist religion rots the brain and should be treated as a psychological disorder or disease of the mind.

"Israel has no consideration for any civilians living anywhere near their 2,000 pound bomb targets"

Sure they do. They could just lob them randomly at Gaza, like the "civiians"-supported Hamas lobs their rockets randomly at Israel, but Israel targets and hits certain houses where known terrorist mis-leaders are.

Hamas has no regard for innocent loss of life. They intentionally point their missiles at Israeli neighborhoods and hide behind their own women and children.

When wars are fought conventionally, the battle field is free of non combatants. When terrorists hide behind their own women and children as they plan and carry out their attacks, they are the ones who get the blame.

420 casualties in the Operation Dec 2008 so far.

Hamas wanted war. Now that have it, I hope their leaders -- or what's left of them -- are enjoying themselves.

Could someone please clarify how big the Hamas rockets are? I was under the impression that they are pretty small...certainly not the one-ton hefty sized Israeli bombs. AND that is one reason only four Israeli have been killed by them until this invasion. Really, something is fishy here.

there is no way that Israeli attacks will break the will of an irrational group of individuals, who refuse to fight out in the open, and cowardly lob rockets over the fence without any regard for what they will do. there will be more and more civilian casualties.

Hopefully the locals themselves will realize that the irrational policies of their leaders will result in the near extinction or outright invasion by a foreign power.

Before it was the Arabs vs. the Israelis. Then it was the Palestinians vs. the Israelis. Now it's Hamas vs. the Israelis. Neither Fatah nor Egypt is currently in conflict with Israel. They're actually giving somewhat balanced statements that acknowledge Israel's right to be free from rocket fire. That should tell you something about Hamas' position.

War is not the answer, let us just give peace a chance!! I hope the Palestians understand the misery that Hamas is causing for them, the Israelis are just protecting themselves from those Qassam rockets being launched by the fools at Hamas Inc.

In his last interview, recorded with Hamas TV on Wednesday, Rayan was as defiant as ever about confronting the Israeli military.

“Oh fighters, know that you will be victorious,” he said. “God promises us either victory or martyrdom. God is greater than they are, God is greater than their planes, God is greater than their rockets.”

You'd think these Hamas nutjobs would learn. Rayan's predecessor, "spiritual leader" Sheikh Ahmed "Meals on Wheels" Yassin, was vapourised by an IDF missile strike. All the bravado just paints a bigger target.

A fitting end to someone who sends his own child off as a suicide bomber while living in comfort himself.

Rayan: "I'm not afraid of Israel, in fa ...:poof: ... "

Rayan...was known for openly defying Israel and in the past had led crowds to the homes of wanted Hamas figures — as if daring Israel to strike and risk the lives of civilians.

Putting civilians in harms way is SOP for Islamic terrorist groups like Hamas.

Sarge:

" I can't imagine being a woman having to share my husband with three other women. What a weird, screwed-up religion/lifestyle. And what would happen if every man fathered 12 kids? lol... "

That is why islam is the "fastest growing religion" as is frequently pointed out. Polygamy + constantly pregnant women + the doctrine that every child born to a muslim is a muslim. Do the math.

Note that even after all of his 4 wifes and 9 of his children are killed, he is still succeeded by 3 children -- which is more than most Western or moder Jewish (or Japanese for that matter) couples produce during their lifetime.

Sort of underlines the point, doesn´t it?

there is no way that Israeli attacks will break the will of an irrational group of individuals

Yeah...that's another issue.

Ranger Miffy wrote "---that is one reason only four Israeli have been killed by them until this invasion. Really, something is fishy here." Only four? How many should have been killed in order to justify a one ton bomb?

Hamas is getting what it deserves. It's about time the Israelis eliminate this extremist group. The downfall of Hamas will be a significant step in the war on terror.

Isreal was killing and causing numerous deaths in Gaza during the cease fire. Isreal broke the cease fire and continued to block the flow of vital medicines, foods, neccessities of life. Isreal has been slowly killing Palestineans for years.

If the blockade did what it was supposed to do it would have stopped the flow of weapons. The blockade never blocked anything except what was needed by people of Gaza to live. Isreal was aware of it and used it as a weapon. They have allowed and pushed for the suffering of Palestineans.

An Israeli warplane dropped a 2,000-pound bomb on the home of one of Hamas’ top five decision-makers Thursday, instantly killing him and 18 others

The airstrike on Nizar Rayan was the first that succeeded in killing a member of Hamas’ highest echelon since Israel began its offensive Saturday.

So after 6 days of constant bombing they finally kill one of a few Hamas leaders. I'm sure that Isreal is so proud. They have murdered over 400 people. < :-)

More escalation like this. Hamas are genocidal scum, backed by Iran. I hope Israel finishes them off and goes after their supporters inside Iran. Let the UN, EU and Russia shake their lil fists.

Why did they want to make things worse. Aint it bad enough.

I hope it is true and this man is dead, there is a chance of peace, but i doubt it.

All this fighting and bloodshed during the holidays. I'm going to sit down with some brandy and watch a video, watching the news puts me off eating and stuff.

People seem to completely blame one side or the other.

Why fight? People don't get hurt if they talk sensibly.

Helter Skelter- If you weren't such a blinded beocon, you might see something that may enlighten you. Your attitude is your loss.

Of course Israel escalates the offensive. I find thei attack offensive!!!Don't all decent chaps?

Should say "blinded neocon".

If you weren't such a blinded beocon, you might see something that may enlighten you.

From the above posts, most of the posters here agree with me. It appears you're the one who's unenlightened.

Helter Skelter: You only agree with yourself. Bwahahahaaha.

I agree with adaydream. It is a well knoen fact that to stop a nation being depressed and violent, is to offer them hope and a future.

Isreali action does the opposite and makes the matters worse, idiots!!!

"Isreal was killing and causing numerous deaths in Gaza during the cease fire. Isreal broke the cease fire and continued to block the flow of vital medicines, foods, neccessities of life. Isreal has been slowly killing Palestineans for years."

Lies Lies and even MOre Lies! in Muslim society they have this rule that say :"if you tell a lie enough times it becomes truth."

Well in our society it doesn't work this way we Have and using our MEMORY.

toonagi - This article says one thing. I present another view from another media outlet. You don't have to agree.

The articles are lies? No. The articles have different facts. My facts are as relevent as yours. But because I disagree and present this different point of view it's lies? No lies here. Prove me wrong then. Prove that these articles are lies. < :-)

Prove that these articles are lies.

Just look at the source. Enough said.

There's no such thing as Different facts there's reality and there's fiction. People who read the Koran are in some magical way losing any contact with logic reality and truth... cant blame them its one of the dumbest books i ever read...

daydream: Isreal was killing and causing numerous deaths in Gaza during the cease fire.

Weak, one-sided, and completely lacking context.

Isreal broke the cease fire and continued to block the flow of vital medicines, foods, neccessities of life.

Israel did not break the cease fire. Even Hamas isn't claiming that. Their beef is that the borders weren't fully opened. There were a couple of limited exchanges but both sides went back to relative calm right after. Again, your position intentionally lacks context.

In addition, there are numerous cases of Israel opening the border to allow in humanitarian aid even tho rockets were still being fired. At this point one has to assume that you're unaware of the situation or intentionally misleading people. But honestly...do you really care which it is? No. You type words because you like the sound of them.

Isreal has been slowly killing Palestineans for years.

In your imagination, sure. But we're only able to comment on what we see in reality.

If the blockade did what it was supposed to do it would have stopped the flow of weapons.

So it's Israel's fault for not stopping Hamas from smuggling in weapons. Unless they do stop Hamas for smuggling in weapons then it's Israel's fault for having a successful yet unfair blockade. Looks like you're covered both ways. When you talk about Hamas you might want to stop treating them like they're a helpless 5-year old child. Just because you support a terrorist organization it doesn't mean they suddenly aren't a terrorist organization. It just means that you now support terrorism.

The blockade never blocked anything except what was needed by people of Gaza to live.

In the strangest way it's like you're blaming Israel for Hamas' decision to smuggle in weapons over medicine. One lady's son was killed when she sent him on an errand and he ended up next to a building that was being bombed. What was the errand? Getting cigarettes. My guess is she probably wishes the smuggler had gotten some bandages instead of Marlboros. Sorry, in daydreamspeak I should say that she wishes Israel made the smuggler choose bandages over Marlboros.

They have allowed and pushed for the suffering of Palestineans.

Yes, they've pushed the Palestinians into a corner to the point where they have to smuggle in weapons and cigarettes while simultaneously claiming there is a humanitarian disaster. Imagine if they lose the rockets and the smokes. Then we'd really have a Palestinian Humanitarian disaster.

I know the above won't change your mind, but I just like the target practice sometimes.

Helter Skelter , oh srooy i mean SuperLIb. Tee! Hee!

You seem to find it laughable that a downtrodden people are suffering, due to a rich country being aided by the USA.

Most of the world, that inclused Europe, finds it morally wrong and offensive. 400 deaths to kill 1 Hamas leader is pathetic.

most if not all of the 400 dead were part of Hamas org. Israel called the Gazans to leave the place ,to rebel against Hamas.

Gazans are supporting Hamas THEY ELECTED HAMAS. their problem. Israeli children should not go to sleep frightened. Israel must protect its own civilians BEFORE considering ANY HUMANITARIAN ISSUE,one should first protect his own's when they are safe he can start considering the other side... War is an ugly ugly thing

I've been ready these posts and am rather appalled. The Helter Skelter guy doesn't give 2 hoots about killing, and in a preverse way he always tries to justify it.

Because 1 Hamas top one is alledgedly dead we should celebrate, but, ooops, what about the hundrfeds already dead and homeless. Some people, mostly very right wing, do not like peace.

Helter Skelter: How about a little compassion for thos poor souls dead, and bereaved. In Israel there are a handfull in Gaza hundreds, soon , probably thousands.

The attack has no proportion, this is genocide. Wouldn'T be surprised if the Hamas man, was just caught up in a random bombing. Well it makes sense doesn't it?

TheNewFront: You seem to find it laughable that a downtrodden people are suffering, due to a rich country being aided by the USA.

I don't find the situation laughable. I find daydream's assessment of the situation laughable.

Most of the world, that inclused Europe, finds it morally wrong and offensive. 400 deaths to kill 1 Hamas leader is pathetic.

Your intentionally biased assessment is created most likely by your guilt complex. Please step aside and let others handle the situation. Sensational statements like the above just get in the way.

Israel is in the wrong, there cannot be any doubt, it is a fact.

They are killers, land thieves and property destroyers, sanctioned by government and the people. Beyond belief.

this whole crisis could have been solved if Egypt would open its border with Gaza...why aren't they opening the gates for their own blood and flesh brothers?? any ideas?

i wonder who the 17 other people in the house were. hmm ... if you look @ this site and the accompanying statistics

captaincapitalism.blogspot.com/2008/07/israeli-vs-palestinian-deaths.html

it compares the number of israeli to palestinian deaths. as a result, you'll see that they (the other 17 people) were probably civilians, not associated with any terrorist/subversive groups. it seems that the israeli government/military/mossad, more than hamas, makes a practice of killing innocents/civilians. mr. obama's silence on this issue is most disheartening. it's time for the u.s. to disassociate itself from israel. otherwise, they will never negotiate in earnest with their neighbors.

Hamas is getting what it asked for and nothing more. Soon it will go the way of the dinosaurs.

Israel does not care about civilian casualities and the numbers prove that.

He sent one of his sons on an October 2001 suicide mission

he was not a father, he was a rabid dog and he has been put down.

The attack has no proportion, this is genocide

a 50/50 war would kill more on both sides long term.

toonagi: this whole crisis could have been solved if Egypt would open its border with Gaza...why aren't they opening the gates for their own blood and flesh brothers?? any ideas?

Shhhhhhhhhh! We're not supposed to talk about that!

Thenewfront forgot to mention that 1 Hamas leader was hiding behind women and children -- not that's really pathetic!!!

Israel appears to be offering an opening for the intense diplomatic efforts, saying it would consider a halt to the fighting if international monitors were brought in to track compliance with any truce with Hamas.

Does anyone have a problem with this?

Anybody know how many Hamas rocket and mortar shells landed in Israel in 2008? If this figure doesn't immediately come to mind, do you wonder why not?

What if the figure was 100, would Israel's response be disproportinate? What if the figure was 500, 1000, 2000, 3500?

You are not going to know unless you venture beyond the garbage the mainstream media puts out.

VOR, 3000 in the past year approx. according to a recent article here.

Do you Hamas supporters just forget about the suicide bombers? So Hamas doesn't have the weaponry of Israel. So what. None of that diminishes or brings back the Israeli dead. You can't poke a bear with a toothpick, and then say it's unfair when it takes your head off with it's claws. Both sides have suffered losses. Such is the nature of war. The Hamas supporters here seem to forget that.

Do you Hamas supporters just forget about the suicide bombers? So Hamas doesn't have the weaponry of Israel. So what.

This is not a war against Hamas but the Palestinians because the Palestinians have been punished since 1948 when their native land and homes was taken away from colonists even before there was such a thing called Hamas. Israel is simply making new excuses to punish the native peoples of Palestine. They are just continuing their plan from 1948 which is to exterminate the Palestinians.

Do I support suicide bombers? I do think they are courageous martyrs compared to the Israeli cowards who kill children, old women hiding behind weapons.

yeah its pretty courages azagnoraw walking into a pizza place and blowing up women and children.

what would be courages of you is if you did a little internal soul searching to determine if you like what you find.

"Thenewfront forgot to mention that 1 Hamas leader was hiding behind women and children -- not that's really pathetic!!!" Or maybe he was at home with his family?

Aza, Wow, thank you for your straightforward answer. That's pretty refreshing. So many just try to avoid difficult to field questions making discussion a chore. You DO realise that buses in Israel aren't likely to have political leaders or soldiers, right? That markets and nightclubs aren't military outposts, right? These are the places that the bombers have targeted. The bombers you revere have taken the lives of women and children. that is FACT.

How long before Hamas starts to realize they are not going to win this conflict?

Read again VOR. It is more courageous than killing old women and children like Israelis do. What part of this sentence is it that you have a hard time figuring out VOR?

No one in Israel believes that Hamas can be destroyed, It is simply too entrenched in Gaza. Hamas has proved it is strong and enjoy big support among many people in Palestine. Apart from bombing Gaza and killing many people it has not achieved what is said it wanted to achieve namely to destroy Hamas. Israel has barely bothered to hit the Hamas leadership or its military wing. Instead it has bombed ordinary policemen who were not even members of Hamas and old ladies and children.

"No one in Israel believes that Hamas can be destroyed, it is simply too entrenched in Gaza."

Which is why Gaza may eventually be razed or turned into a parking lot.

azagnoraw your position is defenseless. give it up. nobody here condones the killing of innocent human beings. If Hamas would stop lobbing rockets and mortars into Israel then Israel would have no reason to try to knock out where Hamas builds their weapons or launch their attacks. its not very courages of hamas to attack Israel in the middle of their own women and children.

The palestinians are represented by two warring fronts. hamas and fatah. fatah represents the palestinians in the west bank and hamas represents the palestinians in gaza. there are no rockets or mortars being launched into israel from the west bank and interestingly enough there is no Israeli military activity taking place there as well.

Hamas provoked Israel and Israel is going to inflict serious pain on gaza. it remains to be seen how viable hamas will be after it is all over. Israel has my support.

Israelis hide behind their tanks, press a button and shoot at a kindergarden.

only because Hamas is firing rockets from behind it.

Vor

azagnoraw your position is defenseless. give it up

He revels in blood that it is it in a nutshell.

Hamas is not the ones provoking the jews to commit genocyde like they all claim they lived. Look at the facts how big was Gaza in 48 and now. What if someone came to your house drug you out shot you dead and then leveled it just to increase their border, would that be fine and dandy.

Hamas grew to power becouse its goverment at the time wouldnt defend the people that were running from rockets, and home invasions. Sure alot of you take the israely side but have you ever stopped to think there are two sides to this and one keeps getting smaller and smaller.

azagnoraw, I understand now what you mean. I guess dying that way would look courageous to one who's afraid to die. Though killing innocents, and yourself in the process to avoid retribution and prosecution is cowardly.

So you think it is more courageous to bomb a kindergarden on purpose while hiding behind a tank? hahaha. VOR. and you say my position is defenseless? Thats VOR in a nutshell.

The last massacre was in West Bank in Jenin this time it is in Gaza. In West Bank it was not a war against Hamas. So you see? israel keeps making new excuses to carry out their plans from 1948 which is to exterminate the native people of Palestine. How many massacres before Hamas and how many massacres after Hamas? If this a war on Hamas and not the Palestinian people then why have there been countless massacres of Palestinians before there was a political party called Hamas?

In West Bank has the Israeli government stopped cleansing Palestinian land, decreased the number of check points and stopped building the illegal apartheid wall according to the International Court Of Justice despite non violent reistance by the Palestinians? No. Did Israel open up the borders in starved out Gaza even though Hamas was not firing a single rocket into Israel? No.

Hamas has proven its credibility and steadfastness, its capability to fight and withstand oppression. It enjoys great support among the Palestinian people and it is a democratic movement. Because it is a movement you cannot bomb it to pieces and win. The more people Israel kills the more bombs Israel drops the stronger Hamas will get therefore by declaring to crush Hamas by bombing Gaza Israel has already lost.

azagnoraw, stupefying!

Israel launched the aerial campaign Saturday in a bid to halt weeks of intensifying Palestinian rocket fire from Gaza. It has dealt a heavy blow to Hamas, but has failed to halt the rockets. New attacks Friday struck apartment buildings in a southern Israeli city but no serious injuries were reported.

Before the airstrikes Friday, Israel's military called at least some of the houses to warn residents of an impending attack. In some cases, it also fired a sound bomb to warn away civilians before flattening the homes with missiles, Palestinians and Israeli officials said.

After destroying Hamas' security compounds, Israel turned its attention to the group's leadership. In airstrike after airstrike, warplanes hit some 20 houses believed to belong to Hamas militants and members of other armed groups, Palestinians said.

They said the Israelis either warned nearby residents by phone or fired a warning missile to try to reduce civilian casualties. Israeli planes also dropped leaflets east of Gaza giving a confidential phone number and e-mail address for people to report locations of rocket squads. Residents stepped over the leaflets.

you can read the entire AP report at http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=2009-01-02_D95F2ROG0&show_article=1&cat=breaking

azagnoraw, let me know what Hamas does to avoid killing innocent israelis when it launches a rocket,mortars or dispatches one of your courageous suicide bombers.

This is the kind of fanatazism that started this. With this mindset it will never end. It is useless to argue with someone who thinks it's ok to kill innocents not as collateral damage, but as the main targets. Killing innocents is wrong in every way, but in war, it will happen. There should be a concentrated effort to avoid collateral damage, something Hamas has shown it is unwilling to do. If Israel used suicide bombers to kill random people in Gaza, azagnoraw would give them his support. He's NOT helping the pro-Hamas posters here. He's talking himself into a corner.

azagnowraw: Apart from bombing Gaza and killing many people it has not achieved what is said it wanted to achieve namely to destroy Hamas.

That's a misstatement of Israel's objections. Their goal is to eliminate rocket attacks. The best way to do that is to strike Hamas, the militants, and their rocket launchers which is what they're doing.

for the record: Terrorist schools are fair game here. +They were hitting these schools when they were unoccupied. And how many kids really like going to school anyway? -seems to me summer break came a little early this year.

Since school is now closed they can now throw rocks or strap themselves with bombs and join the media demonstrations. -much more fun stuff than school.

If you are going to kill children at least be prepared to take the heat and stop hiding behind tanks. No one is forced to be a suicide bomber, no one is forced to bomb a kindergarden and kill children hiding behind a tank. Israelis hiding behind F16s dropping bombs on residental areas is what cowards do. People who support this just illustrates what lack of character they have.

Not a single Palestinian thinks this war is against Hamas as what Israelis and Americans want people to believe. The Palestinian people is not stupid, it knows very well who the real patriots are and who the oppressors are and who the traitors are.

Adding to that....

Israel has a lot of diplomatic pressure right now....but any pressure Israel gets is always diffused to some extent by the rockets. Hamas could stop firing rockets right now and completely strip Israel of that shield....but apparently firing rockets is just too good for them to pass up on.

And you think if Hamas quit firing their rockets right now, that Isreal would quit their assault?

I adamantly disagree. < :-)

Do I support suicide bombers? I do think they are courageous martyrs compared to the Israeli cowards who kill children, old women hiding behind weapons.

Isnt it the dummbest thing to say? WHO EXACTLY were the suicide bombers killing if not ISRAELI CHILDREN WOMEN AND ELDERS?? INNOCENT CIVILIANS for years on years. and nowadays who are their misslies hitting if not a CIVILIAN POPULATION

If the palestinians or any of their supporters are shocked about the price israel is willing to pay in order to secure its civilians is more then welcome to surrounder and clear the Hamas out of gaza.

Now that I have explained why a suicide bomber has more guts than the IDF. Hamas did not fire a single rocket yet Israel did not open up the borders and starved out the entire population which is a violation to the 4th Geneva Conventions.

If Israel wants Hamas to stop firing rockets then Israel will have to open up the borders so that Palestinians can have enough food to eat and medicine at hospitals.

bobbafett: The women in particular are those who had had sex out of wedlock.

Let's not forget the one who was disfigured by burns (not related to the conflict). She was getting treatment from the Israelis for free as a humanitarian service and one day the militants came knocking on her door, told her she was disfigured and would never find a husband, and said she should give her now useless life to the cause by killing the Israeli doctors that were treating her. She resisted then finally went along with it because the militants gave her no other choice, was discovered with the explosives belt at the checkpoint, and confessed.

The pro-Hamas group here will probably be able to push that out of their heads pretty quickly by talking about some lines on a map from 40 years ago.

http://www.alternativenews.org/news/english/israel-violates-gaza-ceasefire-as-welcome-to-elected-us-president-obama-20081105.html

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/11/12/sunday/index.html?iref=newssearch (at the bottom of the page)

Isreal started killing Palestineans during the cease fire. And of course the U. S. and Isreal were in lockstep in their support of killing innocent (possible Hamas) Palestine citizens.

The sooner that Isreal starts their ground game, most posters here will be so jubilant. < :-)

hey daydream, how many rockets and mortars have Hamas launched into Israel in 2008, 2007, 2006....? You may want to check out the numbers before automatically assuming the Israelis kill Palestinians for the fun of it.

The US position is clear, it prefers a diplomatic solution. If anybody is in lockstep with each other is Iran, Syria and Hamas.

I agree with adaydream. The US and Israel must stop being killing machines and show some compassion.

What would the world say if an neighbouring country destroyed a Synagogue.

I feel pity for those who blindly follow US and ISraeli policy and soundbites, never qusetioning their validity.

VOR there are locksteppers on everyside. In this case when the US runs with Isreal, they also give them $30,195,000,000.00 to do the killing.

The only thing that the blockade ever stopped was medicine, food, building supplies and humanitarian needs. It's never stopped rockets or any weapontry except missiles, jets, tanks or helicopters. Wow those are the things that Isreal is pounding Gaza with.

VOR when you give me those rocket attack numbers be sure to give me the number of Isreali missiles fired into Gaza. The number of helicopter assaults. The number of Palistineans shot through the Gaza/Isreal border. Please provide both from your sourses. < :-)

VOR. You better start learning facts. I´ll make it simple for you. Gaza is under an Israeli military occupation therefore by imposing the blockade on Gaza Israel is violating the Geneva Conventions. The blockade was imposed on Gaza when Hamas won the legislative election in January 2006. Hamas has said it would stop firing rockets if Israel opened up the borders.

Azagnoraw, this mornin' someone commented that Hamas illegally overthrew by bloody coup the legitimately elected government of the Palestinians in Gaza?

It wasn't the Israelis that vaporized the Palestinian government. It was a terror organization called Hamas.

What say you?

daydream: Please provide you sourse. I'd like to read this. < :-)

Here's one source for you:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1617542-1,00.html

"Reem Riyashi, 22, a Palestinian mother of two who blew herself up in a suicide attack against Israeli soldiers at a Gaza border crossing in January 2004. Riyashi is hailed as a courageous resistance fighter among Palestinians throughout Gaza and the West Bank, but the truth about what drove her to such a terrible act is much more complex. Palestinians in Gaza and Israeli internal-security experts who studied the background of her case say Riyashi's husband had discovered that she was having an affair with a senior Hamas commander. Among conservative Palestinians, as in other parts of the Islamic world, an adulterous woman is often punished with death. Riyashi was given a second option: she could become a martyr"

Come on, daydream. Surely a man who can quote numbers to the penny has read something about suicide bombers. I sure hope the message didn't come right out of Hamas' mouth and into yours.

Gaza is under an Israeli military occupation therefore by imposing the blockade on Gaza Israel is violating the Geneva Conventions.

Pure lie. Israel left the gaza strip about 2 years ago...GOOD MORNING..!!

Oh by the way i never recived any answer regarding my simple question Why theres no pressure on Egypt to open the borders with Gaza ?? (why dont they let their own brothers in??) when israel started the blockade Egypt could have simply help up them falsetinians and open us the border they share. how come even now when the whole Leftie world is heart bleeding over the latest events,theres still no Egyptian assistance? could it be because Egypt is actually supporting Israel and sees this operation as rightful and justify?

toonagi...Say the same about Egypt and I'll know you believe it.

SuperLib

I didnt understand what exactly are you referring to?

Helter Skelter: The only reason the wars involve Islam is because they are attacked by Israel and the US: Afghanistan, Iraq and Gaza.

Azagnoraw, update: The Israelis aren't occupyin' Gaza. They may if Hamas doesn't knock it off.

The Israeli attempt to give Palestinians some kind of autonomy in Gaza has failed. Hamas murdered the legitimate Palestinian government and then attacked Israel.

azagnoraw - You keep somewhat annoyingly parroting the same question about what it it that people are not understanding. Well, simply your support for suicide bombers that walk into crowds of civilians and blow themselves up. To say this is anyway courageous is lunacy. I will give you that when an Isreali weapon (be it your tanks that you keep incessently referring to, aircraft bombs - whatever) hits civilian targets it is also reprehensible. The killing of people who wanted no part in killing always is.

But I would argue motive and purpose. If an Isreali tank is firing at a fair game target of opportunitiy - a Hamas rocket site - and accidentally hits civilian targets, that's a horrible thing and a crime against humanity as an warfare is. But to knowingly walk into a group of civilians - women and children - with the sole intent of blowing them up for terror purposes; that's an act without soul and without justification. That's what most human, feeling, thinking people believe. That you do not causes some disbelief, hence the reason that no one gets or agrees with your point (except perhaps those who are themselves terrorists).

Put another way - if I'm driving down the road, hit the gas to make the light before it turns red and hit a child who stepped out in the street, it's unfortunate, tragic and I could, should have been more careful. If I purposely go up on the sidewalk to hit that child for no reason but to kill him, I find that much more savagely eggregious. To say that killing innocents with a suicide bomb is any less cowardly than killing in some other manner is just stupidity at it's worst, and the reason we have these lunatics killing each other in the first place.

I have EXTREMELY limited knowledge about the Middle East, but would anyone on JT provide a link detailing the armaments being used by all parties during this Gaza conflict. If I am correct, Israel is being allowed to use US equipment - other suppliers? Also, who, if anyone is supplying Hamas? Hamas claims to be using "homemade rockets". From what I have been reading, it seems like a "David and Goliath" situation - please detailed clarification. Unless some treaty is established, the US will eventually be ONLY a pro-Israel ally. Also, there are some who do view the Middle East as an aspect of Greater Asia. Any details/links appreciated.

it seems like a "David and Goliath" situation

Just because the "Palestinians" are weaker, doesn't make them noble. A difficult concept for misguided leftists.

Helter_Skelter at 06:59 AM JST - 3rd January

it seems like a "David and Goliath" situation

Just because the "Palestinians" are weaker, doesn't make them noble. A difficult concept for misguided leftists

Just guessing, the "concept" may affect the US economically. To destroy a Gaza Mosque is not good to an average American.

It is interesting that in academics, when I presented an analysis that seemed sooo obvious, many times, the class would go silent. Seeing that on JT.

From the article: The mosque destroyed Friday was known as a Hamas stronghold, and the army said it was used to store weapons.

Apecnetworks, when does a mosque cease to be a mosque and becomes a terrorist bunker? When Hamas turns it into one.

The average American has no problem with whatever an Allied force needs to do to put it out of commission. -Good thing for you I'm not in your "class".

Maybe you could give me some links to the arms suppliers to the competing sides.

The average American has no problem with whatever an Allied force needs to do to put it out of commission

If your comment is true then the American have no ethics at all. Most of the comments here came from people with similar thought.

However, I have spoken to many American who do not agree and I think you are wrong.

Shams, you must've sped through the part where Hamas terrorists have turned a mosque into a bunker.

Re-read the article. To quote: "The mosque destroyed Friday was known as a Hamas stronghold, and the army said it was used to store weapons."

Shams, you still have an "ethical" problem with it?

To USARonin:

Do you have a vested interest in Israel directly or indirectly? I don't.

Shams, you still have an "ethical" problem with it?

Blowing up mosques is against the rules. And there is a lot one can do short of blowing up a mosque. And if you do not have the testicular fortitude to do those things, then you should leave it.

Besides:

The offensive has not halted rocket fire at Israel

This is the whole point no?

apecNetworks.....when you said, "To destroy a Gaza Mosque is not good to an average American" did you know the Mosque was being used for terrorism?

Apec,

Who cares, and what is the relevance of, who is supplying arms to either of the sides? Everybody, at least most people, know that the US is the main supplier of arms to Israel. Most people also recognize that Iran, Hezbollah and others of their ilk are supplying Hamas. What does it matter.

By showing that the US is supplying weapons, does that somehow strengthen the very weak argument of the Arabs that Israel is just a puppet of the US? Or does it strengthen the "code pink" argument that it is actually the US somehow causing these conflicts in pursuit of our control of the M.E.?

Both, and just about any other point that concerns US weapons, are complete and utter rubbish. The Arabs hate the Jews because they are Jews, and they feel that the Jews have stolen their land. It certainly doesn't help that the US supplies, but it is also not a huge factor if you apply some common sense. They look for ANY reason to hate the Jews, and absolutely ANY REASON AT ALL to hate the US.

And before anybody's BDS kicks in - they've hated us long before Bush, either one of them, came into office. Since the days of the Barbary Pirates, they've looked for reasons to hate everyone that is not like them, not willing to capitulate to their every demand, or stands in their way. The form of battle may have changed, but the overall goal has not. Complete and total submission to them.

Likeitis, if you read the article instead of the headline alone, than you'd see it was no longer a 'mosque'. Hamas turned it into a military bunker.

Apecnetworks, you have to read beyond the headline. As I just mentioned to Likeitis, it was no longer a 'mosque'. Hamas turned it into a military bunker.

-Simple enough to understand and digest.

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I don't think they're gonna do one entitled "Escape from Israel" but maybe that's just me.

Israel is the only democracy in that part of the world.

You are repeating old propoganda that was not really true anyway.

You seem to have forgotten about Turkey, India, Lebanon (?), Egypt (though presidential elections are even more rigged than the U.S. in 2000) and even Iran has a lot of elections, though not for the Supreme Leader and religious postions. Pakistan has resumed democracy after 8 years of Musharraf (an ally to boot!)

And it might interest you to know that after having a brief stint of general election for the office of PM in Israel in the 90s, they went back to just making it head of the winning party of Parliament, so they are not as democratic as all that.

None of it takes away from the fact that it is a completely silly position to take. Arab/muslim nations are not going to become pro-western or friendly if they are not now simply by becoming democracies. You and I both would take any king who keeps his people under control and in their own borders over a democracy that howls for our destruction and you know it.

As for Israel being an ally, I only keep friends around who are worthy of the title, and never keep them out of personal benefit. I cannot say if Israel is worthy of the title at this time, but bombing a mosque has certainly raised my eyebrow.

Likeitis, if you read the article instead of the headline alone, than you'd see it was no longer a 'mosque'. Hamas turned it into a military bunker.

If you can quote the bit of the article that says the mosque ceased to be a mosque, or perhaps the Geneva Convention article that says its possible for a mosque to cease to be a mosque, or even the Hague Regulations, then fire away.

What I expect I will get from you is either silence or a Bush-esque redefinition of convenience such as we saw with the definition of torture.

likeitis: Blowing up mosques is against the rules.

The mosque lost the special protection when Hamas turned it into a terrorist compound. I'm sure you can agree with that.

Likeitis, thanks for tellin' me what I know. Actually, Israel isn't callin' for the destruction of Palestinians in Gaza or anywhere else. Hamas is.

I see you still haven't read past this article's headline. That mosque stopped bein' one when Hamas turned it into a military bunker. They accurately knew that many folks weren't goin' to read past that or other similar headlines.

I wonder how many lives are actually going to be saved now that this ammo dump is out of business and can't be used to kill anybody now.

apec:

I find your posts to be informative. But you caught me off guard a bit when you said, "To destroy a Gaza Mosque is not good." It made me wonder if you knew the mosque was being used for terrorism. If you didn't know, well, you do now. If you did know then it would appear to be evidence that you're making a biased statement. Since you're known as someone who likes to give a lot of information and back up your statements, I was surprised.

they've looked for reasons to hate everyone that is not like them, not willing to capitulate to their every demand, or stands in their way.

Crap. Could be anybody. But the ones that worry me the most are those who actually send their troops around the stinking world. If not for the British doing that very thing, there would be no Israel. Imagine that!

What Arab group are you going to compare with the British and the Americans? Good luck with that absurdity.

Likeitis, you've fingered the wrong party.

If not for your United Nations there would be no Israel.

Go after them.

I see you still haven't read past this article's headline.

And I see you still have not coughed up anything to support your groundless assertion. Not only the headline, but the entire article refers to the place as a "mosque", even the sentence that also decribes it as a "Hamas stronghold". Your word "bunker" is not used anywhere. You are making things up as you go along. Another symptom of the war junkie.

Likeitis, thanks for tellin' me what I know. Actually, Israel isn't callin' for the destruction of Palestinians in Gaza or anywhere else. Hamas is.

Since I never said a word about that, you must be talking to someone else. Or maybe its a strawman, another favorite of the war junkie.

Likeitis, here 'tis as requested: "The mosque destroyed Friday was known as a Hamas stronghold, and the army said it was used to store weapons."

Likeitis, I don't know what JapanToday is doin' to your screen that makes that sentence invisible to you alone when reading the article. They should stop because it's givin' me continued advantage.

And I see you still have not coughed up anything to support your groundless assertion.

Video of the strike and the secondary explosions.

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=jwP_LusgPAw&feature=channel_page

The mosque lost the special protection when Hamas turned it into a terrorist compound. I'm sure you can agree with that.

"Terrorist compound" is also found nowhere in the article. If this redefinition were done in some way besides unilaterally by Israel, I might possibly agree. But bombing it from the air and THEN declaring it was used to store weapons is just not going to fly.

Besides, when the bombs start to fly, mosques are one of the few places civilians have to hide. War is bad enough, but if those who wish to fight it are going to do it then they are just going to have blow up other places than where civilians hide, I don't give a crap what is stored there. If they want to arrest people in there fine. If they want to inspect and seize war materiel in there, fine. If they don't have the balls to do either, then they must walk away. Bombing from the air is RIGHT OUT.

"The mosque destroyed Friday was known as a Hamas stronghold, and the army said it was used to store weapons."

Subject is "MOSQUE". That is because is was a MOSQUE!

Video of the strike and the secondary explosions.

I am sure it went up like a powder keg. I don't care. A mosque is a mosque is a mosque no matter how sodded inconvenient that fact is for anyone.

Bombing it from the air is equally as cowardly as storing weapons there.

Bombing it from the air is equally as cowardly as storing weapons there.

Ahh, progressive thinking once again on display for all to see. You want a FAIR fight. After all it's all about 'fairness' in the kumbaya world.

Okay, how about Israel plays by HAMAS rules of warfare. Ceases all targeted airstrikes agaisn't HAMAS's ability to wage war and just lobs unguided missles into GAZA in a tit for tat.

It'll kill a lot of innocents but what the hey, it wouldn't "cowardly" and it's Fair.

I'm sure progressives can get behind that idea.

Likeitis, the Geneva Convention doesn't agree with you.

A mosque cannot be used a military fortress. Once it was, it was no longer a 'mosque' but a fair military target.

Okay, how about Israel plays by HAMAS rules of warfare.

Screw Hamas. Screw Israel. Screw their warring.

A mosque cannot be used a military fortress.

Yes.

Once it was, it was no longer a 'mosque' but a fair military target.

You made that up.

"Screw Hamas."

Now you're talkin', Likeitis.

"Screw Hamas."

Now you're talkin', Likeitis.

Pick the part you like. Discard the rest. How positively typical of the war junkie.

No, Likeitis, I didn't make that up.

Whattaya think the intent of the Geneva Convention is anyway?

I like your final thought, though: "Screw Hamas."

Agreed.

HAMAS's ability to wage war and just lobs unguided missles into GAZA in a tit for tat.

Did you know there is a difference between a rocket and a missle? Can you tell me how many have died as a result of Hamas rocket attacks?

Not that I support Hamas rocket attacks. But two things: You mentioned tit for tat. Body count should be a part of that if so. And second, just because I don't support Hamas rocket attacks does not mean I support any measure at all to make them stop.

I'm not a 'war junkie', Likeitis.

I've only pointed out what Hamas knows they can do at any time to end any escalation of war.

No, Likeitis, I didn't make that up.

The quoting should be easy. Have at it.

Likeitis, here it 'tis as requested:

http://deoxy.org/wc/wc-proto.htm

Enjoy.

Moderator: USARonin and likeitis, please stop this tit-for-tat exchange which is taking the discussion nowhere. Focus your comments on what is in the story, not at each other.

Of course Israel are in the wrong. KIll, kill kill is their motto and policy for the last 60 years and they get better at it year after year.

All the while these policies are carried out ignorant right wing extremists cannot see anything bad about the Israeli regime ever.

Thenewfront, if Israel wanted to "kill, kill, kill" as you put it, you'd really see somethin'.

They've had and still have the arsenal to permanently take out every Arab country that's come for them in the past.

Easy.

Israel is too aggresive, out of order they are. Their behaviour should not be tolerated.

To SuperLib:

I can't go into this too much, but there are posts that has info and there are posts that do other things - the post in question "do other things".

RegVarney:

" Israel is too aggresive, out of order they are. Their behaviour should not be tolerated. "

And your opinion of Hamas is?

Put a fervent Israeli and a militant Palestinian together and what have you got?

go Israel!