Israel moves closer to Gaza invasion

Last assault, hurry up, Bush will be leaving soon.

Life is so unfair. My solidarity goes out with the people in Gaza.

Stop firing rockets and there will be no invasion and the borders will open up again. It's a solution that's smacking everyone in the face but the Palestinian militants refuse to let it play out.

I don't pay that much attention to everything that goes on over there but I think they tried "Stop firing rockets and there will be no invasion and the borders will open up again" but the borders did not open thus they ended the cease fire.

but the borders did not open thus they ended the cease fire.

The cease fire was intended to stop hostilities to pave the way for the borders to be opened again. It was a 6 month window. It wasn't something that said Israel was to open the borders again on day 1, it was something that was designed to reduce the violence so they could make a workable plan to reopen the borders again. During that 6 month window Israel allowed humanitarian aid to go into Gaza on numerous occasions, something that was impossible with dozens of rockets flying into Israel before the truce. Now the truce has ended and the militants are firing rockets again and basically undoing everything that was created in the last 6 months.

If the Palestinian stopped firing rockets into Israel it will make no difference to their material life. The Israeli occupation will continue and the Palestinian control over their own destiny will become even less assured. At least in this situation they can chose a path even if its a violent one.

Stop firing rockets and there will be no invasion and the borders will open up again.

The rockets are just an excuse. Palestinians have been murdered and terrorized with and without the rocket firings. Israel wants all Palestinians to leave or die, they want all the land. The world should wake up and put an end to this evil regime. Gaza is a concentration camp and the Palestinians are dying, whether they fire rockets or not.

Israel wants all Palestinians to leave or die, they want all the land.

Ah, so that's why Israel returned Gaza to the Palestinians. They wanted all of the land.

Ah, so that's why Israel returned Gaza to the Palestinians. They wanted all of the land.

They never returned the land as they still control the borders. Israel dismantled the new settlements in Gaza but yet keeping Gaza under occupation.

Gaza was never returned to the Palestinians. The Israelis could no longer afford to protect the illegal settlements so they now only guard the Gaza boarders. The Israelis imposed a strict blockade, severely limiting the entry of medicines, fuel, food, .... The Palestinians can't even fish in their own waters. They even block humanitarian aid from those decent countries willing to help. Jack is right, Gaza is a concentration camp. And the world pretends not to know.

sabiwabi,

the people of Gaza have a significantly higher standard of living than "free" Egyptians living in that country's slums. What does that say to you? Take more care when making holocaust analogies.

then people complain that Jews are hated by others. Theyve stolen piece of ground from Palestinian, otherwise Israel wouldnt even exist

The Palestinians are mere pawns in the destruction of Israel. I see no Arab country addressing the plight of the Palestinian people. In fact, they are treated as outcasts everywhere in the region except for the ones that live peacefully among the Israelis. the Palestinians future rest with the Palestinians. Do they choose to live in peace next to the Israelis as the majority of Israelis desire or do they continue to condemn themselves and their future generations to further violence and poverty? Israel has shown exemplary constraint and at some point completely justified in defending itself with whatever force necessary to quell attacks against it.

So VOR, the next time an Israeli settler takes a pot shot at a Palestinian farmer the Arabs are justified in using whatever force necessary; is that what you are saying?

I give up, I tried to demonstrate how much land was stolen from the Palestinians by the Israelis over the past 6 decades:

and how badly the Palestinians have been treated by the Israelis:

But, unfortunately the mod considers this to be off topic! I guess we must assume that Palestinians fire rockets for no reason other than some deep-rooted hatred of Jews, and that the Israelis only attack to defend themselves; this is what most media want us to think. I realize the mod's hands are tied, but this information is very relevant to the discussion.

Moderator: As we have stated many times, rehashing old historical issues with links to dubious propaganda sites takes the discussion nowhere. What you should do is post your opinion on what is mentioned in the story.

or perhaps sabiwabi the moderator isn't tolerating your dubious one sided history aka propaganda. you complain about not being allowed to provide relevent data when in fact you oversimplify and are not in the least concerned about presenting the facts. the end game here is the destruction of Israel. You know it, i know it, the palestinians know it and the Israelis live with it each day. Until the world comes to grips with that alot more people are going to die.

proxy. an Israeli who takes a pot shot at a palestinian is no better than a palestinian who takes a pot shot at an israeli. whats your point?

I agree so you must agree the Palestinian are indeed justified in their attacks.

feel free to make any assumption you wish. honestly it really doesn't make a difference.

or perhaps sabiwabi the moderator isn't tolerating your dubious one sided history aka propaganda." Yeah but vor, sabi's thoughts should be spoken, even if we disagree with them.

Anyway, sabi, you state you demonstrated how much land was stolen..... I assumed you were with the crowd that claims the entire land was stolen by Israel. am I wrong?

Well then I will assume you only see one side; ignore the Jewish terrorists, yes they do exist, consider them just lone nuts even though they tend to be well funded "settlers" that are funded from individual Americans and that you consider all Palestinians, including children and Palestinian people that are working for and desire peace to be terrorists that need to be killed because of a few rotten apples. Does that sum it up?

need to be killed because of a few rotten apples. Does that sum it up?" Proxy, that seems to be working both ways.

Yes, exactly, there are no "good guys", they just go round and round. What one side considers "collateral damage" are the loved ones of the other side. What will another Israeli into Gaza accomplish; nothing, just more death and resentment leading to bigger more powerful missiles leading to more Israeli attacks leading to more Palestinian attack blah blah blah.

your assumptions are way off the mark. if you really read what i have written, the crux of the problem is not the settlements, gaza or who owns what, but the refusal of Arab holdouts to recognize Israels right to exist. The terrorism (if you want to apply it both ways go right ahead, i don't) is a byproduct of desperate people who have been manipulated to carry out desperate actions. None of the Arab nations have opened their doors to the Palestinians. Ever wonder why?

Proxy: What will another Israeli into Gaza accomplish; nothing, just more death and resentment leading to bigger more powerful missiles leading to more Israeli attacks leading to more Palestinian attack blah blah blah.

Very good, proxy. Now take it a step further and tell us that if the Palestinian militants would stop their missile attacks there would be a period of relative peace, then a better chance for dialogue, then a better chance for peace overall. You can even tack on criticism of Israel if you like. I notice you either criticize Israel or both Israel and Palestine together.

VOR: None of the Arab nations have opened their doors to the Palestinians. Ever wonder why?

Perhaps Palestinian supporters have silently wondered why, but in the end it's probably not best for them to do it openly.

None of the Arab nations have opened their doors to the Palestinians. Ever wonder why?

Middle East dirty little secret. Palistinian refugees are kept in ghettos called 'refugee camps' in the countries of the Middle East. I saw the one set up in Bahrain when I was there. The money that supports these ghettos comes straight from the U.N. The UN agency for Palestine refugees (UNRWA) to be exact. If they were granted citizenship in these countries and most of them are now 4th generation in these countries, the host countries lose the cash to support them. They have no interest in integrating them it goes agaisn't their financial and social interests. Thus the Palistinians are second class citizens, treated like garbage by their Arab host countries and are just plain welfare cases.

The only exception to this is Jordan. They have granted the Palistinians years ago full rights and citizenship and have lost billions in free U.N money through the NGO's. Though it was the right thing to do.

An interesting article about a Palistinian refugee camp in Lebanon that was destroyed last year when Palistinian militants ran wild in the camp and the Lebanonese Army finally responded. It will sum up the cash at stake here for these countries that they lose if they granted them the decency of being treated as real human beings in their countries. I won't even get into the corruption aspect of this fiasco. An excerpt of this dirty little secret that just never seems to get out.

Of the $445 million, around $282 million will be for UNRWA for reconstruction and recovery in the old camp. Around $80 million will be a cash fund for families in the new camp to help them pay for reconstruction. For this, UNRWA will act as a facilitator of the payments. A Palestinian committee will oversee the claims process, as well as a government auditor, but it is up to UNRWA to make the payments. They will be made in stages.

For example, if we have $30,000 to give a family, we will pay $10,000 and then monitor how it was spent before paying the next installment. The remainder of the $445 million will go on rehabilitating Baddawi camp and [addressing] the socio-economic impact of the conflict, both of which we are in charge of.

UNRWA is also launching our own separate funding appeal for relief and early recovery operations to provide funds for those still displaced, temporary accommodation, food and non-food items, medical and education needs. That totals $39.7 million and covers 1 Sept 2008 to 31 Sept 2009. But we're launching that after the Vienna conference.

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9637.shtml

blitzquiik, obstumfuher Olmert, the enemy in the concentration camps on the West Bank has chosen oblivion. Release the Panzers!

Wait! Halt the Panzers for a moment, i needs to see if they are going to continue to fire their primitive weapons on our superior better equipped more intelligent, better human being position. Yes, they have again again! Panzers forward shnell shnell.

blitzquiik, obstumfuher Olmert, the enemy in the concentration camps on the West Bank has chosen oblivion. Release the Panzers!

It's Gaza and though you think your being witty they pretty did choose a military action agaisn't them by launching rockets everyday into Israel.

Or do you think a sovereign nation should just sit back and continue to take the daily missle attacks on her civilians?

Sums it all up in 3:48 seconds.

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ5CtzTQXPs

sailwind: We have always known that sovereignty especially in this case is purely a matter of perspective. The issue is never relevant during the appropriation and alienation process where Palestinian victims were being made every day. The right to confront tyranny is every man's duty even if your enemy is stronger and more connected.

Israel is simply a psychopathic bully who overreacts every time the victims gets a shot in. It pisses Israel off to know that after over 50 years of marginalization of the Palestinian people their will to fight back is still alive and growing in potency. An invasion of the West Bank will only serve to delay the fighting capacity of the victims and six or seven months later we will be back to the same impasse.

If only it were that easy superlib. Israel says it wants peace but their actions have never shown it. Palestinians have nothing to gain by their actions but inaction results in more loss. This problem would never have gotten this far out of hand if Israel had not over reacted to the more or less peaceful Intifada which may I remind you was a reaction to the Israeli Iron Fist policy and statements by Israeli leaders supporting a creeping process of de facto annexation. The settlers were moving in and pushing Palestinians out. The Palestinians have not gained a darn thing by attacking Israel but at least they have been able to resist the Israeli policy of annexing all their land.

Palestine, despite it's reputation in USA as an aggressive Islamic pseudo-state seeking only the destruction of Israel and the United States, is in reality much more than that. A nation composed of numerous ethnicities and religions including Christianity, With the Israeli occupation in 1948, an upheaval began on a scale rarely seen elsewhere in human history. When the modern state of Israel was established there were about hundreds of thousands of Christian Palestinians. Two years ago the number was down to 80,000. Now it's down to 60,000 in the Occupied Territores. At that rate, in a few years there will be none left. When this happens Zionist groups will move into churches and claim them as Synangogues. Churches which have been used by Christian Palestinians for thousands of years.

Proxy, your words ring hollow, especially considering the evidence in Gaza where Israel gave land back and the Palestinian response was to use the land as a staging area for attacks against Israel. The Palestinians lost land because they chose to invade Israel with the land they did have. The settlements came after the Arab invasions, not before.

Personally, I think you're a person who is fighting against the entire existence of Israel as if it can simply be undone. You can choose to support the "fight" against Israel but in reality that's the reason why the Palestinians live in gutters today. And you're encouraging them. Spiritually supporting the Palestinians in getting all of their land back is one thing, practically supporting it is something entirely different. Israel isn't going anywhere whether you like it or support it or not. Once you start dealing with that reality and switching your focus to peaceful coexistence I think you'll see how counterproductive an armed struggle is against Israel.

Gaza where Israel gave land back and the Palestinian response was to use the land as a staging area for attacks against Israel.

As it has been mentioned on this thread before Israel moved a settlement from Gaza but still kept Gaza under an occupation. As it also has been said before Israel was building settlements which were not allowed to according to UN security council.Israel gave land back to the Palestinians but it would be more accurate to say that Israelis took land from the Palestinians then gave back a settlement in Gaza yet keeping the people in Gaza under a millitary occupation. You need to come to terms with the reality of this conflict SuperLib.

No, I don't suppose Israel is going anywhere, it has been there for thousands of years, but time is on the Palestinians side. What happens when then non Jewish population of Israel is 50%+1? I don't suppose many Israeli Arabs are eager to live like people do in Gaza but a non Jewish Israel will probably vote to merge with what is left of Palestinian territories and form one country and will probably change its name to Palestine and the chances of a bloody civil war would be quite high.

What happens when then non Jewish population of Israel is 50%

which planet are you texting from?

itcher74: As it has been mentioned on this thread before Israel moved a settlement from Gaza but still kept Gaza under an occupation.

Please tell me how many rockets were fired into Israel from Gaza while Israel physically occupied it, then tell me how many rockets were fired into Israel after they left.

Instead of asking me questions you could always come with a statement and back up your claims with a source. Rockets have been fired from Gaza before and after Israel dismatnled its illeagal settlement in Gaza. But Israel has never let go off the occupation. Israel claims the blockade of Gaza is a response to the rockets being fired from Gaza but that is not true. The blockade began after Hamas won the election, the main objective of this blockade is to punnish the people in Gaza for voting for a political party Israel does not like.

Bobbafett In Israel Jews make up about 75% of the population but the total fertility rate for Jews is 2.69 and the total fertility rate for Muslims is 4.03. The clock is ticking.

Moderator: Stay on topic please.

Olmert: "We are stronger"

You would think Hamas would figure that out and stop the rocket and mortar attacks before the Israelis come and wipe them out...

Hamas... Give 'em an inch, they'll take a...

It's time for Israel to take it back.

I think it's time for Israel to do what they want and to hell with the UN, or anybody else.

No matter what the Palestinians do, there will always be those that gripe and moan about "occupied" land, and how life is totally unfair to them.

When the CURRENT peace agreement was broke, it was done so by the Palestinians. When the LAST peace agreement was broke, it was by them also.

Those of you living the distant pass need to GET OVER IT. Israel is NOT going away. Your NOT going to get the majority of that land back. Spend 20% of your effort on improving your current lands and you'll find that life will improve immensely for all your people.

Or you can spend 100% of your anger and keep doing like you are. Eventually, your REALLY gonna piss of the Israeli's and find out what a world class military can do.

And the sooner, the better.