world

Israel rejects U.S. calls for east Jerusalem freeze

46 Comments

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© Copyright 2010 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

©2022 GPlusMedia Inc.

46 Comments
Login to comment

Hey, Israel's call. Pull our money back, pull our support back and you're on your own. < :-)

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Are you kidding, Israel has played too large a part in the development of US weaponry. US will never cut that off.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

No surprise at all. Heh, might as well have someone demand the US halt all building in DC. Would make about as much sense.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

No, Molenir. US demands make as much sense as demanding that New Zealand stop building in Iceland. The land on which the zionist regime is building on does not belong to them, the entire world says so. People should ask themselves why they continue to get away with it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The evil Israeli government yet again snub the free world. With countless UN resolutions broken and an undeclared nuclear arsenal, is it not clear which nation America should liberate next!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Hey, it's Israel's territory, they can do what they want.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

No, Molenir. US demands make as much sense as demanding that New Zealand stop building in Iceland. The land on which the zionist regime is building on does not belong to them, the entire world says so. People should ask themselves why they continue to get away with it.

New Zealand isn't building in Iceland, they're building in New Zealand. Israel isn't building in DC, they're building in Israel. Even if you are one of those supporting and excusing murder, you should at least get your facts straight.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

...they're building in Israel ....you should at least get your facts straight.

The FACT is that they are building on Palestinian land. It does not belong to the zionists. The entire world, including the UN and the International Court of Justice, agree that the land belongs to the Palestinians (hence the name Occupied Palestinian Territories). Only the Israelis and people like Molenir and manfromamerica think that the Israelis are entitled to that land.

The US should at the very least stop ALL aid to the zionist regime until they move back to the pre-1967 borders. Problems solved!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

sabi: they move back to the pre-1967 borders.

What a non-sensical suggestion. Jews were ethnically cleansed and forbidden to enter East Jerusalem by the Muslim Arabs prior to 1967. Why in the world would they ever agree to return to those conditions? Jerusalem is part of Israel now. Deal with it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

People also seem to forget that this land they are building on is owned by an Israeli. Seems to me that the owner can let whomever he wants to build on his land.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

My mother was a Silverman and I am from NY. I would love to see NY and Florida invite all the Israelis to live in America. Give the land that the Israelis turned so green and prosperous to the Palestinians etc., and watch it turn back to desert. America would benefit by giving passports to these highly skilled and super work ethic people. So basically, quit building and start applying for US passports.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

sabiwabi -

The land is Israel's. And the more the Palestinians continue creating terrorists, the less right they have to claim it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

U.S. rejects calls for more help for Israel.

That's the next headline I want to see. < :-)

0 ( +0 / -0 )

What is needed is for the Arab nations to unite and create their own nuclear arsenal to be on level terms with the Israelis. Only then can we see any comprimise from the facist Istareli state.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The FACT is that they are building on Palestinian land. It does not belong to the zionists.

Sorry, but Palestine has been recognized by which country? If anyone other then Israel has claim to the land, its Jordan. However Jordan has already withdrawn their claim. No other country claiming the land, means that it belongs to Israel. They may choose to give it up to some as yet to be formed country, but until that country exists, they can have no claim on land.

To put it another way, its claimed by Israel and no other country, thus its part of Israel.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The Arabs have NO right to claim any part of Jerusalem as the capital of a 22nd Arab state for the following reasons:

1> Jerusalem was never the capital of any Arab state nor Muslim caliphate in all of history, but only that of the Kingdom of JUDAH; 2> Jews have been the majority in Jerusalem since 1844. That's about 160 years; 3> When Jordan controlled East Jerusalem, and the city was divided from 1949 -1967, it never became the capital of either Jordan nor any Palestinian state. And Israeli Jews were not permitted to cross and pray at their most holy site.

Technically, Jordan too occupied East Jerusalem without UN permission from '49 -'67. The only claim the Arabs have there is due to their mosques that built on top of the ancient Judean Temple Mount. Is that sufficient claim for a capital? Any seriously objective observer could not merit the Arab claim to East Jerusalem becoming the capital of the 22nd Arab state. It is beyond human reason.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

To those Jews who say that Jews ought to go to Florida or New York, when did the US become a Jewish state? And did they get permission from the rest of American citizens, or from the Seminole natives to make such an offer?

As for the Arab states all getting atomic bombs to even out with ISrael, they all signed the NPT, and so they signed AWAY their right to have nuclear weapons. But Pakistan did not sign the NPT so it has a right to them. India did not sign, so it has a right to them. Israel did not sign the treaty, so it has a right to them. And if Saddam had not been stopped by ISrael from getting to bomb, who's to say he wouldn't have used it on Iran? Or the Arabs using them on each other? They have as many conflicts among themselves as they do with Israel. The Muslims outnumber Israel by 200 to 1, and so Israel needs them until they full recognize the right of the sole Jewish state to exist. And did not the US occupy Japan after dropping two atomic bombs? Did the US not impose a constitution on Japan? Did it not reduce the power of the Emperor? Any state for the Palestinians must conform to Israels security needs. Israel did not start, and did not lose any wars. It will not accept ultimatums or diktats.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The Israeli people and Israeli leadership have no interest in peace in the Middle-East. All they are concerned about is seizing by force even more of the land surrounding what they were illegally given by Britain. Any moral authority or mandate Jewish refugees ever had on the eve of Israel's creation long since evaporated with the first expansion of "settlements" outside of 1948 treaty-proscribed boundaries.

Screw 'em. If they want to continue pursuing this 21st Century version of Imperialist conquest, let's see how enthusiastic they remain without the backing of the United States.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

LFRAgain...you should do some research on who is doing the backing. Seems like the US is paying for Israeli technology in the field of medicine, and in weapons development.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

There is no people in the Middle East more interested in peace than Israelis. Almost every Israeli Jew has to spend at least 5 years of his life (and for most women at least 2) in the IDF. The idea that Israel wants only to "grab land" is false, proved by the fact that Israel gave up the vast Sinai with 50% of its oil supplies after four wars with Egypt. No other country has ever done anything like that for peace. Israel withdrew settlements from Gaza and many parts of ancient Judah and Samaria including most of those territories to terrorists whose goal is to annihilate the Jewish state. And they still refuse to recognize the Jewish state. The Jews were the only people that ever had an independent state in that area. And the US is not paying for Israeli technology, but rather benefiting greatly by it, both in the military and medical fields. But in fact, compared to the amount of wealth the US sends to Arab countries, Israel only gets 1%. If anything, US wealth has built up the Arab Middle East FAR FAR more than building up Israel. Thanks to US discovering, developing and purchasing of Arab oil, the Arab population of the ME has increase 15-fold since WWI. Western addiction to oil saved the Muslim world from utter poverty and hopelessness.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Jerusalem has NEVER been the capitol of any arab/muslim state. There has NEVER been a country called palestine. Most of the refugees are descendants of people kicked out of Jordan which is a Palestinian majority country ruled by the ethnic minority.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Since when did America have the right to tell our alleys where they can build houses and how many rooms they can add to their own houses. This is absurd.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

jgaebuz, America gives more aid to Israel than any other country including Arab countries.

The Israeli government and those that blindly follow its orders are rightly condemned by decent people. The Israelis have lost any moral high ground they may have had in the past ue to their disregard for non Jewish life.

i hope America stops all aid to the evil regime, and Israel can feel like the rogue state that it is and finally change its ways.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The Israelis have lost any moral high ground they may have had in the past ue to their disregard for non Jewish life.

Islamic terrorists and suicide bombers are fenced in, and penned up like animals, and then they kill each other. Other countries should take Israels example of how to deal with these blood thirsty subhumans and erect fences around those thugs too. The Pals dont want anything but death and trouble. Egypt is a good example of a country that respects peace. Gaza is a bad example of peace, but, a good example of what the Pals intentions are.

America will always support Israel in war and peace, we are happy to send them bullets, guns, and money, and bricks.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

guest, the majority of countries condemn Isreali policy. Ther would be less or no attacks against Israelis if they did not behave the way they do to "no Jews", ie not "chosen ones".

Even their best allies America are thinking again about blindly supporting the corrupt regime, and roghtly so.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

You cannot even begin to grasp what Americans think. The USA loves Israel. It's Biblical with US.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

djuice,

I'm perfectly aware that the U.S. provides medical, financial, and military support for Israel. That's the point of my hypothesis. I was suggesting that if the U.S. were to withhold its support, Israel might be a lot less obnoxious towards its neighbors.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

hworta269,

"Since when did America have the right to tell our [sic] alleys where they can build houses and how many rooms they can add to their own houses. This is absurd."

America and the rest of the world have a right when those so-called allies continues to prod and provoke neighbors who may experience little if any reservation in dropping a nuclear weapon on Israel's head in a one-shot game of "If we can't live here, then no one can."

America also has a responsibility since it's 40 years of U.S. support, and a presumption of continued support, right or wrong, that has given Israel the cojones to behave like the schoolyard bully of the Middle East.

It also doesn't help when Israel uses its own undeclared nuclear weapon stockpile as an implied threat while it eats up more real estate, essentially delivering the classic bully line, "You gotta' problem with me? What'cha gonna' do about it?"

Again, screw Israel. They stopped being allies and started being trouble-causing a-holes a long time ago.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

To LFRAgain

Your hypothesis is wrong. If Israel were free of US aid and influence, to which it has become addicted the way the US let itself get addicted to oil, Israel could have nuked its enemies with their oil fields decades ago. If the US had experienced anything like what Israel has experienced from the Arabs, it would have done worse. The US lost two buildings with 3,000 people and sent its army into two Muslim countries and more. Israel has lost 25,000 due to Arab war and terror. And it's a tiny country. Had the US lost 25,000 it would have gotten serious and utterly destroyed the countries sending armies and terrorists against it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

BTW, Israel and the US are not allies. There is no formal treaty of alliance with Israel as there is with the 27 members of NATO including Germany, or with Japan under the 1960 Security Pact. Or with Australia and New Zealand under ANZUS. Israel asked for such an alliance with the US back in the early 1950s but Eisenhower rejected it. That is an important reason why Israel had to develop a deterrent in conjunction with France back in the late 1950s. Khruschev and Eisenhower threatened both Israel and France during the Suez Crisis, so they both subsequently decided to get their own nuclear deterrents, though ISrael has never admitted to it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

jgarbuz,

Your hypothesis assumes that an Israel willing to use nuclear weapons against its enemies emerged from a vacuum. However, it has been Israel’s long and close relationship with the U.S. and its pocketbook that have shaped Israeli foreign policy to this very day. Being the recipient of over $114 billion in U.S. aid since 1949, including an August 2007 promise of military aid over ten years worth $6 billion, everything Israel is and ever will be are due to the assistance and continuing goodwill of the United States. To that point, to claim that these two nations are not allies due to a lack of formal diplomatic paperwork is sheer fantasy.

Israel’s hubris in pushing past treaty-bound territorial borders is precisely because it counts on the continued goodwill of the United States to protect Israel in the event things get out of hand. The reason Israel feels it can count on this aid is because of a correct assumption that the United States wants and needs to maintain a forward military presence in the Middle East via Israel. It’s a mutually parasitic relationship, but it is what it is.

Quite frankly, I’m not surprised Israel is a bit quick on the trigger, seeing enemies all around. After all, its people have to reconcile their very existence with the fact that their nation was effectively build on stolen land. It’s kind of difficult to maintain the moral high ground when you working from a position of being wrong from get-go. This reality does not evaporate with time or generous coats of religious dogma to perpetuate the illusion of legitimacy.

The more Israel continues to presume upon the benevolence of its friends, the worse their footing is going to become in the international community. Those two buildings you spoke of? There are a relatively large number of Americans, many influential, who have made the reasonable assumption that those buildings were brought down precisely because of the United States’ relationship with an increasingly belligerent and recalcitrant Israel. There will come a point when Americans will demand their leaders reassess the question of whether or not that relationship is worth it anymore. And that tipping point is coming sooner than later.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

First of all, Israel is JEWISH LAND occupied by Arabs, and not the other way around. The Arabs can believe what they want, but Judah and Samaria are the heart and soul of the Jewish nation. Orthodox Jews pray towards Jerusalem, the center of Judea. Muslims pray towards Mecca, the center of their Arabian homeland. Second, Israel assumes NOTHING. So-called "friends" come and go. France was a friend, and went. The US claims to be a friend, but it may go too. Israeli satellites are now being put up by Indian rockets. The world community is changing. Nobody knows better than we Jews who saw empires rise and eventually decline. From Egypt and Assyria to the British, Soviet and American empires, we have experienced them all. And God willing, we will survive them all. Israel is not a forward base for America any more than is Japan or South Korea. It is a country that shares the same values that Americans cherish, i.e. liberty and individual freedom and that is the basis for US-Israel cooperation. Many countries received considerable aid from the US. Britain, France, Germany, Japan, South Korea, Turkey, Iran, Egypt, the Palestinians, and a host of others have been the recipients of military and economic assistance. None of them are considered property of the US, and neither is Israel. Israel is a friend and ally for only as long as the American people wish it to be. In the final analysis, even if the US were totally kicked out from the Middle East, as it was from South Vietnam, American children would not die. Under the worst case, gasoline prices might double or triple causing some economic distress. But that would probably be the worst thing that would happen to Americans if they totally withdrew from the ME. But for Israel, one major defeat means its children will be slaughtered like sheep as in WWII. That's the major difference. So the US will not dictate policy to Israel, or vice versa. Both countries will assess the value of the relationship and decide what they want to do. The Japanese are reassessing their relationship as well. Every nation will do as they think best for their own interests, and the US and Israel will be no different.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

First of all, Israel is JEWISH LAND occupied by Arabs, and not the other way around.

Look up when (a long long time ago) and for how long (very short time period) that land was Jewish, and you'll quickly see that your argument doesn't stand up.

Anyway, what one should consider is that today nations must abide by certain internationally accepted guidelines and laws. Israel never did, so the entire world should stop recognizing Israel as a nation (some already do, and the number may grow).

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It’s a mutually parasitic relationship, but it is what it is.

Wow, that's a laughable statement. But I agree with you, the relationship is vital, for the US and for the world.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I don't have to look up anything. I know the history of my homeland better than you know that of yours. Israel is historically and legally the homeland of the Jewish nation. The Council of the League of Nations in 1920 ruled that the Jewish National Home is in the territory they refer to as "Palestine" and it was enshrined in the 1922 Mandate turned over to the British to administer. In addition, in 1947 the UN General Assembly voted by 2/3rds vote to approve the right of a "JEWISH STATE" to come into being within that geographic territory. Israel's right to exist is possibly the most legally sanctioned state on the planet. The country was illegally attacked by 5 Arab armies, who were thankfully defeated and Israel agree to the Armistice lines of 1949. The Arabs continued to refuse to recognize it, and to recognize the Armistice line as a legal border, and routinely violated it by arming fedayeen terrorists who murdered hundreds of Israelis between 1949 and 1967. In addition, Jordan illegally occupied Judah, Samaria and East Jerusalem and no "Palestinian" state came into being. As a result of artillery attacks on Israel begun on June 5th 1967, despite Israel's pleading with King Hussein not to get involved in the hostilities, the IDF was forced to respond and evict the Jordanian army from the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Israel's existence as the Jewish state, and its occupation of the territories taken from Jordan and Egypt are both legal despite false propaganda to the contrary. The Armistice Line of '49 was erased by gross Arab violations and military attacks, and are no longer relevant. Peace can only come with full recognition of the right of the Jewish state to exist in peace and a negotiated settlement of the issues in a manner favorable to Israel's security needs.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Israel is historically and legally the homeland of the Jewish nation.

Historically: the land was Jewish for a very short time a very long time ago. It is historically infinitely more Palestinian than Jewish.

Legally: All countries, the UN, and the International Court of Justice agree that the Occupied Palestinian Territories are Palestinian.

The Council of the League of Nations in 1920 ruled that the Jewish National Home is in the territory they refer to as "Palestine"

Interesting how you completely ignored the following part "it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine".

In addition, in 1947 the UN General Assembly voted by 2/3rds vote...

I hope you are aware that the same UN General Assembly has consistently voted almost unanimously every year for over a decade for resolutions for Israel to return to its pre-1967 border.

I don't have to look up anything. I know the history of my homeland better than you know that of yours.

I think not!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

jgarbuz - great post. Totally agree with you.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

To sabiwabi

The Jews did nothing to prejudice the civil or religious rights of NON-JEWISH COMMUNITIES in Palestine. Not one inch of privately owned land was taken from Arabs from 1920 up until the Arabs started the war after November 29th, 1947 to try to destroy the newly authorized Jewish state. All Jewish settlements were either on "wastelands" or "state lands" or on lands legally purchased from landowners, in full accord with the terms of the Mandate. And there was no recognized borders before June 5th, 1967. There were the 1949 Armistice lines which the Arabs refused to accept as permanent borders of the "Zionist entity." So the myth of "pre-67 borders" is just simply more propaganda, like the myth of the "Palestinian people." The League of Nations did not see any "Palestinian people" but only NON-JEWISH COMMUNITIES, as you correctly stated.

Moderator: Readers, that concludes the history, thank you. From here on, please focus your comments on what is in the story.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

jgarbuz,

"First of all, Israel is JEWISH LAND occupied by Arabs, and not the other way around . . .

Aaaaaaaand THIS is right about where most reasonable people start looking for the exits. Sorry, but in this day and age, Israel is going to have to provide a far more compelling reason to claim a certain stretch of land than one steeped in ancient religious dogma.

"Nobody knows better than we Jews who saw empires rise and eventually decline . . .

It's also very hard to take seriously claims of a near-mystical all-encompassing unity across the Jewish Diaspora, a construct and idea that at its very core presumes the superiority of, well, one arbitrary and entirely subjective definition of a group of people, Jews, over, well, regular folks like me. Sorry, but unless you can prove it with verifiable and quantifiable data, you aren't any more "special" than me or the Palestinians Israel hopes to supplant. It's high time Israel accepted that. "We are the chosen people" sounds as irrational and unpredictably frightening as anything from radical Muslims.

“Many countries received considerable aid from the US . . . None of them are considered property of the US . . .

No one has said Israel was the property of the U.S. I said that the United States has supported Israel heavily since its inception, and that that support has resulted in Israel transforming into a regional bully. Your hyperbole serves no purpose other than the deflect the question from one of friends respecting one another to one of a stronger power dominating another . . . Which is ironic considering Israel’s stance towards Palestine.

“in 1947 the UN General Assembly voted by 2/3rds vote to approve the right of a "JEWISH STATE" to come into being within that geographic territory. Israel's right to exist is possibly the most legally sanctioned state on the planet.”

It really doesn’t help your argument to ignore the likelihood that the greatest single factor influencing world opinion regarding Israel in 1947 was not some universal epiphany that, “Hey, Jews are right! Israel really does belong to the Jews,” but rather a universal realization that some sort of safe haven needed to be created for Jews experiencing the worst persecution in their history. Do keep in mind that the general attitude throughout Europe and reaching even the shores of the United States was one decidedly unfriendly towards Jews, even after WWII.

“The country was illegally attacked by 5 Arab armies . . . “

Illegally? The land Israel sits on today was handed over to Jews by a League of Nations that included few Arab states, among which none supported handing their own territory over to someone else. Talk about illegal. In the rush to give Jews safe haven, nobody bothered to really consider the people they would ultimately displace. Funny that. So please refrain from preaching here about illegalities if you’re going to conveniently overlook that fact.

“The Arabs continued to refuse to recognize [Israel] . . .

Of course they did. The very legal (and moral) premise of Israel’s creation was flawed from the start, predicated on the idea that Britain possessed the right to hand out parcels of Middle-Eastern land like popcorn at a county fair.

“Peace can only come with full recognition of the right of the Jewish state to exist in peace and a negotiated settlement of the issues in a manner favorable to Israel's security needs.

That’s never going to happen as long as Israel continues to build settlements in a slow, but inexorable expansion into Palestinian territories. When -- not if – but when a major Middle Eastern power gains possession of nuclear weapons, Israel is going to be forced to concede this point. Call me a cynic, but I sadly believe (and I by no means hope for this outcome) that peace will never come as long as Israel continues to push into Jerusalem. For Israel, it’s a religious destiny argument. For Palestinians, it’s a “You took our homes” argument. I can see no reasonably way for these two viewpoints to be reconciled without MAJOR concessions on the part of both parties. But that's not going to happen considering the amount of vitriol and hatred that's been allowed to fester over the past 60 years. It's going to get worse before it gets better, I'm afraid.

“Not one inch of privately owned land was taken from Arabs from 1920 up until the Arabs started the war after November 29th, 1947 to try to destroy the newly authorized Jewish state.

Again, either by willful ignorance or calculated obstinacy, you seem all too willing to overlook the moral truth that the mandate over Palestine bestowed upon Britain by the League of Nations in 1922 was not the League's to give in the first place. You’re arguing for civilized adherence to late 20th Century rules of international law based on an intrinsically flawed and immoral application of 19th Century imperialist conquest. There’s no reconciling the two.

“So-called "friends" come and go.

Yes, sir. Yes, they do, something Israel would do well to consider. After all, a friend is one who launches satellites for you when you pay them enough. A real friend is one who places themself between you and your worst enemies. Which friend does Israel want?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The Koran may give the Arabs the idea they have the right to dominate the world in the name of Allah, but I'm sorry to have to humiliate you again. We Jews do not accept your falsification of our history and rights. We do not accept Koranic authority over our homeland.

As for the US, it did not place itself between Israel and the Arabs for Israel's sake. The main consideration in America's calculation is the fate of that oil that the US discovered and developed and addicted itself to. That same oil that built the palaces of the Arab autocrats, and enabled the Arab population numbers of the former Ottoman empire to rapidly increase from 22 million after WWI to about 350 million today. But, yes, America did agree to the League of Nations' ruling that set aside Palestine to be restored as the Jewish National Home after WWI. But Woodrow Wilson also agreed that the Arabs were to have their own independent states as well. So the US has tried to be friends and fair to both sides in this clash between the Koran and the Bible. Between Arab ambitions and Jewish rights. As long as the US remained fair, it's okay. But when it tilts against Jewish rights, it ceases to be so.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

As for Jerusalem, the Arabs have no historical or legal claim to another Arab capital therein. The arguments are familiar. It was never the capital an Arab state or seat of a Muslim caliphate. It has been majority Jewish since the 1840s. Even when East Jerusalem was in Jordanian hands, it was not made the capital of either Jordan or any Palestinian state. I cannot understand the basis of any Arab claim, except for the story that Muhammad made a magical mystery tour in his sleep to the "northernmost mosque" and met all the previous prophets in heaven there who authorized his own superiority. And then woke up in his bed back in Arabia. I just can't see that as justification for turning Jerusalem into yet another dreary Arab capital.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

jgarbuz,

"The Koran may give the Arabs the idea they have the right to dominate the world . . . We do not accept Koranic authority over our homeland."

Wait, Which is your supposed enemy here? Muslims or Arabs? Or do you just sort of lump them all into the same group for convenience's sake? You assume the rest of the world believes this to be a conflict between two opposing faiths, and it isn’t. It’s a debate over property rights -- not in a “prophesized homeland” sense, but in a legal one. This isn’t about religion and never has been.

Yes, certainly, Islam groups have seized upon the opportunity to make this a religious debate to pursue selfish aims, but that wouldn’t be an accurate description of Palestinian goals. They just want their land back.

In the meantime, please point out where I made any factual errors regarding the history of Israel or what rights it does or doesn’t have.

"Jewish rights"

Again, what are these rights you speak of? And where are they enumerated? Also, would you be so kind as to explain how those rights supercede the rights of a people already living for tens of generations on the very land Jews want to claim as their own?

“ . . . this clash between the Koran and the Bible . . .

This isn’t a clash between the Koran and the Bible. Your attempts to cast this conflict as some sort of holy war is a transparent effort to legitimize Jewish claims to the land Israel currently occupies, which from every legal and moral standpoint (points, I might add, you chose to ignore) wasn’t fairly or judiciously given to Jews in the first place. Ultimately, this desire to view the conflict in the black and white realm of religious differences makes both parties, Jews and Arabs, two sides of the same uncompromising, irrational coin, i.e., religious zealots.

The other problem with turning this into some sort of religious conflict is that you effectively give every crackpot, fanatical, zealot with a bomb and a plan a reason to attack Israel. Since the battle of “My God can beat up your God” is now being waged in the Nuclear Age, it’s probably not too wise to shout out religious proclamations of legitimacy from the nearest rooftop. To do so is essentially begging someone to prove you wrong with a bang.

So, this isn’t about religion. At least not from the standpoint of the Palestinians who are attempting to regain some semblance of control over lands their great, great, great grandparents tilled.

“ . . . the US has tried to be friends and fair to both sides . . . But when it tilts against Jewish rights, it ceases to be so.

Aside from the fundamentally flawed assumption that Israel has any sort of right to Palestinian lands, to state that any sort of criticism of Israel automatically negates friendship is patently shallow, don’t you think? Again, which friend would you rather have? One who tells you only what you want to hear, or one who tells you the truth?

Regarding Jerusalem:

“It has been majority Jewish since the 1840s.”

Wonderful. A 130-year Jewish majority. Versus a one thousand year span of being a non-Jewish majority. What’s your point here? Are you really going to try and trot out the “We’ve been there longer” argument? You’d lose.

“I just can't see that as justification for turning Jerusalem into yet another dreary Arab capital.

This statement is so arrogantly racist that it doesn’t deserve any more comment than to simply call it what it is. Let’s try to keep this mature, shall we?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The enemy is anyone who rejects the right of the Jewish state to exist in peace, with Jerusalem as its unified capital.

Jewish rights are enumerated in the same place the rights of all of other nations is to have to their own homelands.

It's been made a clash between the Bible and the Koran because some followers of the Koran forgot to read Sura 117 which recognizes the Israelites. There is no mention whatsoever of any "Palestine" or "Palestinian lands" in the Koran. There never was a state called Palestine, and hence there are no Palestinian lands. It's like calling parts of Brooklyn Jewish lands. You can only claim right to a land where you once had an actual historical state on it. Otherwise, it's just land inhabited by some shifting group or other. The concept of "Palestinian lands" is false UNTIL a state called "Palestine" actually exists.

Jerusalem was never a capital of any "Palestinian" state. It wasn't even an administrative center of any Arab entity. In fact, there was no "Palestine" in the Ottoman empire. The area EUROPEANS call "Palestine" was divided in a number of different districts (sanjaqs) whose administrative centers were in Beirut and Nablus, etc. Show us a Turkish made map showing "Palestine" before 1915. Only maps made in Europe and America used that name.

Jerusalem will never again become the capital of any Arab state, dreary or otherwise. Period.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Correction. The last sentence of my previous post should have said: Jerusalem never was and never will become the capital of any Arab state, etc. Period.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

jgarbuz,

"Bible and the Koran because some followers of the Koran forgot to read Sura 117 which . . . "

You obviously have me mistaken for someone who speaks any dialect of "God is great." I don't give two stones about territory claims based on religious rhetoric or propaganda, so your exhortations regarding the Koran, the Bible, or any other piecemeal, self-contradictory, anthology of local parables, metaphors, and campfire tales written and compiled long after the fact are for naught.

I know it may surprise or even shock you that there could be anyone in this world who doesn't buy into this nonsense we lovingly call religion, but believe you me, it's going to take the efforts of those whole lean far closer to my way of thinking than yours to find solutions that won't end in the needless deaths of millions of Israelis and Arabs.

I also find it quite telling the lengths you will go to in order to misconstrue and twist the historical record showing that Muslim, Christian and Jewish communities have lived in the Palestine region in relative peace for some 2500 years since the first Israel was effectively conquered. This is a transparent attempt to de-legitimize the property rights of people who were displaced by Israel’s creation in 1948, and it doesn’t impress me in the least.

That you can deny the rights of the de facto inhabitants of that region based on the petty semantics of what a “Palestinian” actually is, while laying claim on Palestinian lands based on little more than a 2500-year-old “I got dibs” claim chit tucked away in a the Jewish holy book is sad and unreasuring.

I'm certain your forefathers who dreamt of an Israeli state also dreamt of a world in which Israeli children would have to live in fear of daily rocket attacks, suicide bombers, and a distant but looming threat of nuclear annihilation for the rest of their natural lives. They must have dreamt it, or why else would they have knowingly placed their grandchildren, great grandchildren, and all future generations of Israelis in perpetual peril through a land grab that at its moral, ethical, and legal core, is fundamentally unjust?

At any rate, I will choose to bow out here. While you deal in religious absolutes to justify your position, I prefer to deal in modern and internationally recognized conventions of right versus wrong. Israel, IMHO, has chosen to place itself squarely in the camp of wrong in its pursuit to wrest away the property of others via force. You no doubt are very firm in your conviction that this theft of land can be justified by ancient texts written by and for Jews (convenient that, BTW). With that representative attitude, good luck with that quest towards a secure Israeli nation. Israel's going to need all the luck it can get.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Well, my forefathers lived in ghettos and shtetls and faced constant humiliations for centuries. Including within the Muslim states. And my grandparents, and the grandparents of every child of holocaust survivors, had their grandparents murdered in the war. Not a single child of holocaust survivors born right after the war (such as myself) ever knew a living a grandparent. Not one. Okay, so we did not expect that the Muslim world would begrudge us to the extent they have, the right to return to our homeland. It did come as a surprise and bit of shock. WE were not aware of the depth of Jew-hatred that existed in Islam, and that was it was just as deep as in Christendom. I guess we were just oblivious of just how deep anti-Jewish racism goes.

Okay, so Israeli Jews now have to live under the threat of rockets, and suicide bombers and even perhaps nuclear destruction. But at least they can face it on their OWN LAND and with weapons in hand for a change. As Joseph Trumpledor, an early Zionist fighter, said in his last words as he lay dying from a firefight with Arab marauders back in 1920, "Never mind, it is good to die for our country" That's much better than what my grandmother got when she got to say when she was shot in the ghetto of Boremel in Poland by the Nazi collaborators. Better than what my mother's fist baby child get when he was murdered in the forest at the age of four.

We don't need luck. We need God's blessing and to have the means to defend ourselves. Nothing more. The rest is in God's hands.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites