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Israel reports direct hits on Syrian target

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after a stray mortar shell flew into Israel-held territory

A mortar fired by whom? That's not clarified anywhere in the article.

There also are concerns that al-Qaida-linked groups battling Assad could turn their focus toward Israel,

Since the Syrian conflict is a war between the Syrian government and al-Qaida, why has the West chosen to back the al-Qaida side.

Isn't al-Qaida the biggest threat to global peace and security. The Syrian army is fighting al-Qaida and they're doing a good job holding them at bay. Shouldn't the west be backing the Syrian army in its fight against al-Qaida terrorists?

Right now the only thing standing between al-Qaida and vast stocks of Chemical and Bio WMDs is the Syrian Army.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Ah yes! What a lovely, lovely mess! I hope NeverSubmit is not correct about Al Qaeda there in Syria, but I can only hope so much.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

A mortar fired by whom? That's not clarified anywhere in the article.

This is not the first time this has happened. For the most part, it has been reported a large amount of the shells coming from Syria are being fired by the government chasing after the rebels.

Since the Syrian conflict is a war between the Syrian government and al-Qaida

Not all the rebels are 'al-Qaida'. You admitted this and you know this. Why repeat something you know not to be true?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Israeli tanks struck a Syrian artillery launcher

Note they struck the launcher from which the shell was fired, ie, the Syrian government.

Bursts of artillery fire from the Syrian forces could be heard every few minutes, and about a half-hour later, the Syrian shell struck the Golan, making a loud whistling sound before impact less than 100 meters from an Israeli position. Israeli forces quickly opened fire, and a plume of smoke billowed from one of the tanks’ guns.

Actually, the article is quite clear. Perhaps you just do not want to see it?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Assad is possibly thinking of trying to save his own skin by involving Israel with the hope that a common enemy will take peoples' minds off their desire for Assad to leave. Kind of what Middle Eastern leaders have relied upon for many, many years now.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Gambatte Israel.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Israeli tanks struck a Syrian artillery launcher

Where does it say that the artillery launcher that was struck by Israel is the source of the fired mortar.

It doesn't clarify that anywhere. You seem to have assumed it.

Bursts of artillery fire from the Syrian forces could be heard every few minutes, and about a half-hour later, the Syrian shell struck the Golan

If you read carefully you'll note two specific instances.

Bursts of fire from Syrian forces - This is clear, the people who fired the shells are the Syrian forces, but note that these are not the shells that landed in Israel.

and about a half-hour later - Meaning a separation between event 1 and event 2.

the "Syrian" shell struck the Golan - Syrian shell means originated from Syria, it does not necessarily mean fired by the Syrian army.

This article is careful written and the writer went to great pains to imply that the shells were fired by the Syrian army without directly stating so. Since doing so would technically be a lie since there is no evidence that the Syrian Army actually fired the mortar that landed in Israel.

If you can understand legal English and you can find clearly where in this article it is written that the Syrian army fired the round that landed in Israel I'd like to see the sentence.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Where does it say that the artillery launcher that was struck by Israel is the source of the fired mortar.

You are aware there are other articles on the subject available, are you not? The only group using mortar shells in this instance was the Syrian government. The rebels were using automatic weapons. It was a Syrian shell and the launcher from which it was launched was hit by Israel. If you have any evidence of the rebels using mortar shells in that area, I'd be happy to take a look at it.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

From Haaretz News:

On Sunday, Israeli officials were emphasizing the military had fired a “warning” shot. Specifically, Israeli media reported the IDF Artillery Corps had launched a precision-guided Tammuz anti-tank missile for that warning which indeed missed its target, a Syrian army mortar crew.

By contrast, on Sunday, the IDF confirmed it had scored “direct hits.” This, perhaps, to send a stronger message to the Syrians.

The shells appear to have come from the Syrian army and the Syrian army suffered direct hits because of it. You will notice, so far there is no mention of this in SANA, the Syrian government's 'news agency'.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Oh, in case that still is not clear:

In response, IDF soldiers fired tank shells towards the source of the fire, confirming direct hits

0 ( +1 / -1 )

It has also been reported by various sources that rebels in Syria have been supplied with weapons via Benghazi, known to be an Al Quaida stronghold. "That's another fine mess...."

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

“There is no question that al Qaeda’s Libyan franchise, Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, is a part of the opposition,” Bruce Riedel, former CIA officer and a leading expert on terrorism, told Hindustan Times.

It has always been Qaddafi’s biggest enemy and its stronghold is Benghazi."

Gaddafi was on the verge of invading Benghazi in 2011, 4 years after the West Point report cited Benghazi as a hotbed of Al Qaeda terrorists. Gaddafi claimed – rightly it turns out – that Benghazi was an Al Qaeda stronghold and a main source of the Libyan rebellion. But NATO planes stopped him, and protected Benghazi.)

CNN, the Telegraph, the Washington Times, and many other mainstream sources confirm that Al Qaeda terrorists from Libya have since flooded into Syria to fight the Assad regime.

Mainstream sources also confirm that the Syrian opposition is largely comprised of Al Qaeda terrorists.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gajqRgjDWax0oBhQk8MU7HX8BwTQ?docId=CNG.8b32ad461489ab05113fc900b5f26049.941

Plenty more sources.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Herve,

Most are quite aware that extremists, including al-Qaeda, and have infiltrated opposition forces fighting President Bashar al-Assad. However, your articles, and other similar ones, do not state that the opposition is largely comprised of the extremists. It merely says they have been infiltrated by them. Personally, I highly doubt that the protesters that were shot and killed were members of al-Qaeda. I think al-Qaeda and their ilk are taking advantage of the situation that Assad created when he started having protesters killed.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

One more nail in the coffin of the Middle East. Armageddon is coming!

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@neversubmit

the "Syrian" shell struck the Golan - Syrian shell means originated from Syria, it does not necessarily mean fired by the Syrian army.

Lol. As always, trying to defend and spin for the Assad regime. I really would like to know, can you unequivocally say that the mortars that were fired weren't from the Syrian Army? If so, what proof do you have?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

slumdog, I know what you're saying, but dig a little deeper.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Herve,

I'm not sure where or what you want me to dig deeper. I am very sure al-Qaeda would absolutely love to take over Syria. I get that. However, to take away the reality of real and honest opposition to Assad that has been building for decades does a disservice to those that died in the original protests. Just because extremists are trying to take over the movement against Assad does not mean they represent all opposition. They do not. Your article does not change my mind about this. If you have something more concrete, I am all eyes.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

"The source of the fire, Confirming direct hits"

How is it not Clear?

IDF soldiers fired fired back at those who attacked them...

AND SO THEY SHOULD!

GAMBATTE ISRAEL !

1 ( +3 / -2 )

slumdog, I have no doubt that there exists real and honest opposition to Assad, however those people may also have been targeted by the Al Qaida fighters.

Anyway, here's another link:

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-syria-heavy-weapons-jihadists-2012-10

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Herve,

Honestly interesting article. However, as I noted with your other article, it does not state that the opposition is largely comprised of the extremists. This is your point and your point is not proven with the articles you have provided. Was is clear is that these extremists present a clear and present danger. I doubt that there are any that would disagree with this. However, and again I am repeating myself, had Assad reacted reasonably to the original protests and even to those before them and to criticisms of his government instead of shooting or jailing them, I do not believe there would have been the opening we now see for Jihadists to attempt to take over the country.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

the situation that Assad created when he started having protesters killed.

That's an unsubstantiated statement, for one thing, and the same thing has happened in Bahrain and other states allied with the West, for another thing. In Bahrain the simply implemented martial law, and Iran and Hezbollah are not arming the Shia Muslims that account for an even greater majority of the population of Bahrain than the Sunni do in Syria.

In any case, your stance would seem to be that the West and its Sunni client states support of the rebels is valid based on the pretext that peaceful protests were put down with force, using exaggerated claims about the degree of force and not addressing the possibility of agent provocateurs.

That is not a valid pretext; moreover, you seem to apply it selectively only against regimes you chose to label as the enemy.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

"Assad has no interest in picking a fight with Israel"

He ain't dumb!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

That's an unsubstantiated statement, for one thing, (referring to the Syrian police shooting unarmed protestors)

That's true, to this date, nobody has provided any credible evidence (evidence that is not from the UK-based Skype hoax Damascus Blogger) that any peaceful protestors where shot.

The anti-Syria (and by default pro al-Qaida) crowd is just constantly rehashing the thread written by the infamous Damascus blogger, even though she (actually a he) was totally discredited almost a year ago, and all of her (his) claims about violence in Damascus were proven false.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The IDF will roll into Syria before Christmas...

It's a curious choice of words here: a stray shell, meaning it wasn't a deliberate attack on Israel. So why fire back?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

That's an unsubstantiated statement, for one thing

It is completely substantiated, as are the arrests of people who have criticized the Assad government. There have been laws on the books in Syria for 50 years that banned public protests. Other countries are not being discussed here.

In any case, your stance would seem to

My stance is clear: there is no defence of the Assad government's history or actions. That goes for the son and the father. I don't have to like the extremists among the rebels to dislike the Assad government and their actions.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

That's true, to this date, nobody has provided any credible evidence

Plenty of evidence. You have just decided to ignore it it seems.

The anti-Syria (and by default pro al-Qaida) crowd

Again, you know and have admitted you know that not all the rebels are extremists, yet you keep up the charade of pretending not to know this? Why? To what end?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

So why fire back?

It is in the article. At first, last week, when it happened, it was thought to be accidently. However, it keeps happening. So, they responded. Are you suggesting Israel should keep taking on fire with no response? Syria should be more careful.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The IDF will roll into Syria before Christmas...

Absolutely no way that is going to happen.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Other countries are not being discussed here.

But they are, you've just chosen to opt out of that part of the conversation because it doesn't suit your agenda.

I don't have to like the extremists among the rebels to dislike the Assad government and their actions.

I didn't tell you otherwise. I

The so-called Damascus blogger was apparently an officer in the MI6 spreading false information, propaganda, if you will, at around the same time that some sources have reported snipers appearing and shooting into crowds.

There have been credible reports of excessive use of force by the regime and affiliated militias, but that is almost beside the point of the spurious and , moreover

basically criminal activity of Western intelligence operatives like "the Damascus blogger".

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

slumdog, Not sure where got the idea that I think all the rebels are Al Qaida, since I haven't stated that. However, the presence is well-known.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Israel, as always, itching for a war.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Never Submit

The anti-Syria (and by default pro al-Qaida) crowd

It dead set amazes me that you have absolutely no shame in tirelessly distorting information to suit your agenda. The Pro Al Qaeda crowd?! How pathetic. Anti Syria crowd?! What are you talking about? I, and many people here are Anti-Assad. That's it. Why? Because he is a corrupt and ruthless dictator who has shown scant regard for the people he rules at the end of a gun barrel. I am pro-Syrian democracy, pro-Syrian human rights.

What is your position, NeverSubmit? Can you summarise it succinctly? And why?

Your old mate the Damascus blogger is a reference NO ONE MAKES HERE BUT YOU. And it's a hopelessly obselete reference at that - he stopped well over a year and a half ago.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

I wish Israel, we only civilized country in the region, good luck.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

*the of course.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

But they are

No, Bahrain has nothing to do with this. It is not mentioned in the article. I am not discussing it. If I were, I would be against them killing protesters as well, however.

I didn't tell you otherwise

Yes, you did. You were suggesting what my stance was and you were incorrect. I corrected you. I dislike the Assad regime and the actions he and his father have taken. I dislike his complete lack of effort in his 12 years of rule to make any real reforms or changes. That does not mean I support extremists who are attempting to take over the opposition movement in Syria that began with the killing of protesters. It was not the first time the Syrian government has killed protesters and it was not the last. Assad's father also used the same tactic to put down any criticism, but times have changed and this time it could not be swept under the rug so easily.

The so-called Damascus blogger was apparently an officer in the MI6

Wow. Really? Are you really going to go down that path? Tom MacMaster is and was never a member of the MI6. We all have the internet too, you know.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Israel, as always, itching for a war.

They were shot at, what would you have them do exactly?

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Tamarama,

Your old mate the Damascus blogger is a reference NO ONE MAKES HERE BUT YOU

Interestingly, this seems to have changed with this thread. Rather surprising.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Herve,

Not sure where got the idea that I think all the rebels are Al Qaida, since I haven't stated that.

You wrote:

Mainstream sources also confirm that the Syrian opposition is largely comprised of Al Qaeda terrorists.

In response, I clearly asked for confirmation of the opposition is largely comprised of al-Qaeda terrorists. We were already in agreement that they exist in some numbers and I even suggested that I doubted anyone did not know that. So, did you make a mistake when you wrote the above? It certainly seems that you did based on your articles which mention no such thing.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

slumdog, that was a quote, not my writing. The quotation marks were missing. Check that link for more.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Here's the link, slumdog :

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/11/why-did-cia-director-petraeus-suddenly-resign-and-why-was-the-u-s-ambassador-to-libya-murdered.html

0 ( +0 / -0 )

We all have the internet too, you know.

That's true. But somehow the Damascus Blogger made the front pages of every major western media outlet.

Could you pull that off? Probably not. Certain connections are needed

How did the Damascus blogger manage to fool all the fact-checkers at every media outlet, for months straight, before being exposed as a total hoax.

Plenty of evidence. (referring to Syrian police randomly shooting innocent protestors)

For example what? Give me one example, even half credible.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Tamarama: I am pro-Syrian democracy, pro-Syrian human rights.

Oh really? What about the human rights of the postal workers that the rebels threw off of buildings ( and the human rights of the Aleppo residents that we forced to watch in order to terrify them)

What about the human rights of the civilian residents of Damascus who are being intentionally targeted by rebel car bombs in order to scare them into submission.

What about the human rights of the young Syrian conscripts that were slaughtered in cold blood after they surrender as per Geneva convention rules.

What about the human rights of the massacre victims in Homs that the UN eventually came around to blame on the rebels.

And pro-democracy?

I don't see the democracy in a small clique of people meeting in a hotel in a foreign country declaring themselves new overlords of 20 million people. All without any vote or input from the actual citizens of that country.

The SNC in Qatar is expressing its authority at the barrel of a gun from its hardcore Islamic fighters. Not only the barrel of a gun but the threat of being killed by a bomb or thrown off of a building. Not only that, the rebels apparently take no prisoners.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

slumdog,

I applaud your efforts but most reasonable posters stopped arguing the point weeks ago. Assad could order an orphanage bombed and NeverSubmit would question the political allegiance of said orphans or claim they had been put there by foreign governments. Having to read every bizarre conspiracy they turn out to qualify the Syrian governments abhorrent treatment of it's citizens is tiresome and the number of conspiracies needed to prop up such an illusion is so staggering that it's actually impressive in a perverse kind of way.

Herve,

dig a little deeper.

How far past bedrock do I have to dig? This whole thing went from peaceful protests to FUBAR in record time and it didn't have to. For months we get bombarded with images of dead civilians and burned homes yet when terrorist elements start to infiltrate the ranks of opposition fighters I'm supposed to be shocked? This all could have been avoided if Assad had stepped down or made some basic changes, but instead he started shelling towns.

Nothing gives a person the authority to utilize terrorism to achieve their goals, not al qaeda and not the Assad government. I would, however, put forward the point that it would be much easier for a new government to clean out the insurgents than it would be to submit to the fully realized terrorist regime that is the current Syrian government.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Tom MacMaster is and was never a member of the MI6.

Oh, I forgot that guy was the blogger, an American in Scotland.

I stand corrected. I'm inclined to agree with NS regarding the undue media coverage, however, which is highly suspect. Maybe that is not enough to imply that he was CIA, not MI6. Maybe he is just a Freemason? There are two many aspects of his tale that point to intelligence operative.

Some people just have nothing but time on their hands...

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I would, however, put forward the point that it would be much easier for a new government to clean out the insurgents

So why doesn't this new provisional "council" in Doha do that now.

Assuming that the SNC has fighters that are not Jihadists under their command shouldn't they order those fighters to turn those guns on al Qaida? After all al Qaida is killing Syiran civilians every day. Why doesn't the SNC or anybody else claiming to protect the Syrian people do anything about it.

Frankly speaking, the only people that are trying to protect the Syrian people from al-Qaida's terror campaign is the current Syrian army.

In my view, the SNC (or whatever their new ridiculous name is) has no claim to legitimacy because they wantonly allow Syrian civilians to be slaughtered by al Qaida even though it's within their power to stop it.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

So why doesn't this new provisional "council" in Doha do that now.

So does that mean you think the council isn't made up of terrorists? If so you're sending even more mixed messages than usual. Bravo.

Assuming that the SNC has fighters that are not Jihadists under their command shouldn't they order those fighters to turn those guns on al Qaida?

You yourself said that the SNC has a piss poor organizational structure, you really think they're capable of doing job screening at this point? And what about the loyalist elements that burn and pillage with equal amounts of wanton abandon, seems like they're causing a fair share of problems as well. You only seem to concern yourself with the terrorists infiltrating the opposition while turning a blind eye to the thugs in your own court.

Frankly speaking, the only people that are trying to protect the Syrian people from al-Qaida's terror campaign is the current Syrian army.

By killing the civilians before they get the chance to get killed by insurgents that only got into the country in the first place because the Syrian army, under Assad, decided it was a good idea to use protesters as target practice? Assad is bad, insurgents are bad.

In my view, the SNC (or whatever their new ridiculous name is) has no claim to legitimacy because they wantonly allow Syrian civilians to be slaughtered by al Qaida even though it's within their power to stop it.

And in my view Assad lost all legitimacy when he started killing his own people for protesting. Lets make a deal then being the geopolitical big wigs that we are. How about both sides disarm, they hand over power to a UN delegation, and have free elections under UN supervision. That way your Russian pals get a say in it (since they know all about election fraud) and I don't have to read about it anymore. Heck, if Assad could stop mucking things up with attack helicopters and heavy weapons such an event may have even happened a few months ago.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

How about both sides disarm, they hand over power to a UN delegation, and have free elections under UN supervision

Has merit.

Keep in mind that the current administration is the recognized government in Syria by the UN and the Syrian seat at the UN is still legitimately held by the current government in Syria.

Your idea has merit but we can't disarm police officers or a standing army in a volatile region. The first step should be to stop all illegal arms flows into the country, via Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan.

Once order is restored and a semblance of people and normality return to the country (as it had been for the last 30 years), then a UN tribunal can be set up to impartially investigate all claims of abuse and human rights violations.

If a fair, complete and impartial investigation rules that members of the current government had abused their authority and committed crimes against humanity then let them be charged accordingly. Moreover, all members of the rebel forces must be subject to the same international tribunal.

We can chat about his all day but nothing will improve will Jihadists, weapons and ammo pour into the country. It's time to choke off the fuel from the fire.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

TheQ, my comment about digging deeper was directed toward slumdog, so no need to get worked up.

The whole thing is a horrible mess from whatever way you look at it. It seems every party involved has innocent blood on their hands. It seems to be becoming the new Iraq.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The Question

I applaud your efforts but most reasonable posters stopped arguing the point weeks ago. Assad could order an orphanage bombed and NeverSubmit would question the political allegiance of said orphans or claim they had been put there by foreign governments. Having to read every bizarre conspiracy they turn out to qualify the Syrian governments abhorrent treatment of it's citizens is tiresome and the number of conspiracies needed to prop up such an illusion is so staggering that it's actually impressive in a perverse kind of way.

Sadly, this is true. It's complete exasperation mostly that leads me to keep firing the occasional shot, but everytime I do I feel I become stuck on a carvinal merry-go-round of illogical arguments, distorted truths, selective fact finding and the plain old bizzarre.

NeverSubmit

In response to my previous post, you tiresomely listed some of the documented attrocities of the Rebels, which wasn't really connected to the point of my previous post, but that is your way. Grab the smallest thread to suit your agenda and pull as hard as you can . It does not, for a compelling argument, make.

No one is disputing that elements of the rebels did some of these things. But let me ask you this. Do you acknowledge that the Assad forces have killed any rebels or civilians in Syria at all?

Because this delusion is consistent with others you keep sprouting, like this;

Once order is restored and a semblance of people and normality return to the country (as it had been for the last 30 years),

Again, you can't have been to Syria, can you. To post stuff like this. Just becuase there is no protesting or fighting in a country does not mean things are 'normal'. Have you ever been to Syria?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Once order is restored and a semblance of people and normality return to the country (as it had been for the last 30 years), then a UN tribunal can be set up to impartially investigate all claims of abuse and human rights violations.

I believe that was the mentality when Hafez al-Assad had more than 10,000 killed in Hama (technically official estimates range between 10 and 40 thousand but I gave your boy the benefit of the doubt) and nothing happened in the aftermath of that. So please don't expect me to believe that if Assad were allowed to slaughter all resistance, er, restore order to the country there would be a single high level investigation.

my comment about digging deeper was directed toward slumdog, so no need to get worked up.

I have a habit of taking a crack at whatever comment strikes my fancy.

It's complete exasperation mostly that leads me to keep firing the occasional shot, but everytime I do I feel I become stuck on a carvinal merry-go-round of illogical arguments, distorted truths, selective fact finding and the plain old bizzarre.

Yeah, by the standards of this site I'm a bit of a crackpot but even I have standards.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Herve,

Here's the link, slumdog

Your link is a blog with links attached. Do any of those links actually say the rebels are largely comprised of al-Qaeda members? I have already read a couple of your links to no avail. Could you just quote and point out a specific actual article suggesting that the opposition is largely comprised of al-Qaeda extremists. Keep in mind, we already know and agree al-Qaeda extremists exist. What I so far so no proof of is that they are the majority, which seems to be what you and this blog are suggesting.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

TheQ, my comment about digging deeper was directed toward slumdog, so no need to get worked up.

Yes, but you seem to be suggesting there is more to the story and yet you do not provide information to back it up. Kind of problematic.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Oh, I forgot that guy was the blogger, an American in Scotland.

Kind of a big point to 'forget'. Perhaps less guessing and more actual checking is in order.

the undue media coverage, however, which is highly suspect.

Why? This is certainly not the first time such a thing has happened. Sometimes the best answer is the simplest and most obvious. You have provided nothing to suggest he was anything other than a grad student in Scotland.

Some people just have nothing but time on their hands...

Agreed. They should stop living in a fantasy world in which everything is a fantasy that cannot be backed up.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I don't see the democracy

Yet, you see democracy in the 50 year rule of martial law under Assad and his father? No rights to publically gather and protest? You think that is democracy? I think your definition is off.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Herve,

Against my better judgement, I checked out the nine links in that blog you linked. As I suspected, there is nothing at all to suggest that the opposition is largely comprised of al-Qaeda extremists. Nothing. We are already agreed that there is al-Qaeda involvement. However, I disagreed that there is proof that the opposition is mainly comprised of al-Qaeda extremists. So far, you have not proven your case. Please do not ask me to look at any more links, especially blogs, unless the specifically state that the opposition is largely comprised of al-Qaeda extremists. Failing that, give me back the time it took to look over all of your links.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Again, you can't have been to Syria, can you. To post stuff like this. Just becuase there is no protesting or fighting in a country does not mean things are 'normal'. Have you ever been to Syria?

I am absolutely positive none of the pro-Assad posters have ever been to Syria for the very reasons you have pointed out.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I applaud your efforts but most reasonable posters stopped arguing the point weeks ago. Assad could order an orphanage bombed and NeverSubmit would question the political allegiance of said orphans or claim they had been put there by foreign governments. Having to read every bizarre conspiracy they turn out to qualify the Syrian governments abhorrent treatment of it's citizens is tiresome and the number of conspiracies needed to prop up such an illusion is so staggering that it's actually impressive in a perverse kind of way.

--

Sadly, this is true. It's complete exasperation mostly that leads me to keep firing the occasional shot, but everytime I do I feel I become stuck on a carvinal merry-go-round of illogical arguments, distorted truths, selective fact finding and the plain old bizzarre.

Agreed. Still, it is good to know there are many reasonable people like yourselves out there as well.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Certain connections are needed

Yes, an internet connection. The rest is pretty easy.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I applaud your efforts but most reasonable posters stopped arguing the point weeks ago

Actually, I want to specifically address this. One of the reasons that I respond and argue with such people is that, like many, I seek answers to the many questions we all have in the world and would like to believe there is more to many of the stories we see in the world. When people come along promising an answer, I would like to believe they have one and so I check what they say. I then respond because of my continued disappointment at finding out that what was promised as an answer was actually not true at all. Why do people make claims that can easily be checked and found out as false?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

slumdog

Agreed. Still, it is good to know there are many reasonable people like yourselves out there as well.

There are actually quite a few, but as you rightly point out, most have just got tired of the repetitive, tail-chasing, blinkered drivel that people like NeverSubmit keep trotting out.

It is a kind of fascinatingly perverse case of selective perception of truth and hard headed determination to avoid any accountability for what you write.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

slumdog, geez, it's well-established that AQI is active in Syria. Whether it's to 51% or 50.1% or any number, is like choking on a gnat. Is it even remotely possible to count any one group? Best not to obsess whether it's partly, largely, or whatever qualifier. That isn't the point. Whatever.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Herve,

it's well-established that AQI is active in Syria

No one is disputing that. It is old news at this point.

Is it even remotely possible to count any one group? Best not to obsess whether it's partly, largely, or whatever qualifier. That isn't the point. Whatever.

Well, you certainly had me going there. When you wrote largely comprised of, I believed you had information to back up this very important suggestion. Why else would you write it. Look again at my responses to you up to now in this discussion. There is a huge difference between a large al-Qaeda presence and a nominal one. You wrote the claim that the opposition was largely made up of al-Qaeda extremists. I now see you have no idea. Perhaps you should be more careful with repeating such claims before you have ascertained whether they are valid or not.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@slumdog

I correct myself after researching this McMaster character (and his wife).

I'd say that there is a high probability that this couple are both CIA officers, probably since decommissioned.

Read the section on him here: http://www.sott.net/article/241383-Syrias-Bloody-CIA-Revolution-A-Distraction

And the interiew with his wife here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4ckVtR1tSY&feature=youtu.be

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Wow, unsurprisingly again, your links give no evidence at all that would lead one to believe McMaster is connected with the CIA at all. As an aside, that is a really horrible source of information you have come up with. Are you planning to use Tarot cards next?

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The common thread amongst the three people defending Assad is that they are fixated on the notion of Western interference. It tends to dominate their comments in other articles. It's a somewhat new crop of extreme fringe players that have come together to use Syria as a launching pad for their agenda.

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@SuperLib

At the risk of exposing myself to accusations of subscribing to conspiracy theory, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the anti-Assad faction here are also intelligence operatives posting comments here in order to garner public support for the agendas being pushed by their governments.

@slumdog

I'm fairly capable of evaluating new articles and timelines, and the information and links to mainstream media (Washington post, Guardian, etc.) give the link credibility. Aside from that, I've had personal interaction in Japan with Americans associated with the "American Friends" Quaker affiliated program.

Interestingly, while her blog was still active, 'Amina' posted a picture of a billboard in Damascus showing President Assad. The image was taken from Britta Froelicher's Facebook page and shows a date of 2006, which suggests that Britta, perhaps with McMasters, were in Syria in 2006, which was the year that the US began to covertly fund the Syrian opposition. Interviewed by the Washington Post, Tom McMaster admitted to being a 40+ year old native of Virginia who is married to Britta Froelicher. they both enrolled as students at Edinburgh University and where she is pursuing a PhD in Syrian economic development. ... he specialized in Arabic studies. Later he traveled to Syria and Jordan...

interview with the cretin on the Guardian website:http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xjaq0d_interview-of-tom-mcmaster-aka-amina-arraf-a-gay-girl-in-damaskus_news

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I wouldn't be surprised if some of the anti-Assad faction here are also intelligence operatives posting comments here in order to garner public support for the agendas being pushed by their governments.

Wow, just wow.

I'm fairly capable of evaluating new articles and timelines

I disagree. You have now incorrectly claimed the man was a member of MI6 and then the CIA. That seems to show a lack of ability to read news articles. Anyway, you've still provided no information to lead to the conclusion that McMaster was anything other than a grad student in Scotland. Also, I am not sure what I am supposed to make of your association with American Quakers, but I don't see any connection to this discussion.

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It is also very telling that he expresses little remorse for the havoc that his actions caused in terms of violence.

That is probably because Assad reaction is the main cause of the present strife.

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That is probably because Assad reaction is the main cause of the present strife.

Yes, you can keep on repeating that unilateral line of argument about Assad the terrible,

but

you won't divert me from examining the facts and determining what is going on for myself.

The articles and interviews to which I have provided links provide various pieces of information that lead me to suspect him and his wife of being CIA officers.

You don't have to agree with me on that, but other readers might.

Suffice it to say that if McMaster was a CIA officer, he would probably guilty of some sort of war crime under international law.

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no matter what side wins in Syria, there will be cleansing afterwards, UN observers or not, they're useless as always. If Israel gets involved, it's cold, ruthless efficiency might end the conflict way sooner than any kind of soft-sector hippie could do by just talking and saying stuff like : you can't do that because it's wrong, and all that. You know they type. Solve it much sooner in a short span of hard war, effectively preventing way more slaughter in the end. The thing is, if they're provoked into taking action, will they just go away afterwards ?

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ubikwit: At the risk of exposing myself to accusations of subscribing to conspiracy theory, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the anti-Assad faction here are also intelligence operatives posting comments here in order to garner public support for the agendas being pushed by their governments.

I don't think there is much pro/anti-Assad going on. You guys are mostly "anti-meddling West" and then there's everyone else.

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Superlib

speaking for myself, to an extent, you're characterization of the general thrust of my posts as "anti-meddling West" is accurate. My views are pro-Assad only insofar as they oppose surreptitious meddling of a hegemony inclined orientation of the West along with its client states in the region.

I am opposed to the empire, and in favor of self-determination; in Syria, however, and the middle east in general, that seems to be a particularly nettlesome pursuit.

The characterization of "everyone else" is obviously false, however.

many of the anti-Assad people are ideological, not looking at things from an unbiased perspective, so their views are consistently dogmatic , laden with name calling such as "dictator", and drone on repetitively.

They seem to be rooting for their side in a conflict that should not have occurred, which is an attitude that serves to perpetuate the conflict.

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unilateral line of argument about Assad the terrible,

I have only stated the fact that Assad and his father are and were dictators. Actual presidents are elected in an election with opponents. This is not true of Assad. His country has been under military martial law since 1963.

The articles and interviews to which I have provided links provide various pieces of information that lead me to suspect him and his wife of being CIA officers

None of what you provide is conclusive.

if McMaster was a CIA officer, he would probably guilty of some sort of war crime under international law.

If he was Mickey Mouse, he would probably be very popular in Japan. That's the thing about inconclusive guessing. It can lead you anywhere.

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As there is a civil war in progress in Syria,it is fairly obvious that any munitions falling into Israel were not intentionally launched.Why would either side -the rebels or the government of of Syria seek a war with Israel at this time?

However, Israel matches any provocation with provocation.I have yet to see Israel offer restraint in any conflict. In fact, any casualties (with intention or not) suffered by Israel are usually returned 10 fold or more to the other party.

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