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Israel demands monitors as part of a Gaza truce

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I understand that the ground is very wet and mucky. If that's so I'm hoping on a lit more rain. That'll slow down the encroachmant of Isreal into Gaza.

But after that, Isreal is going in to kill. < :-)

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Gazan start missile intifida, Israel now starts Operations revenge for gaza hamas missiles. World nations/Egypt should help reduce casualties to minimum via aid and other help projects for more peace and less casualties in future Gaza palestine.

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But after that, Isreal is going in to kill

Good. They need to finish the job of eliminating Hamas rocket fire into Israel.

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You know Helter Skelter Isreal attacked Gaza and killed several Palestineans before the 6 month cease fire ended. That's what restarted the rocket fire by Hamas. < :-)

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Hamas went looking for this fight.

Now they've got it.

It's time for the international community to step back and let them fight it out.

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You know adaydream Hamas never stopped firing rockets into Israel during the entire "ceasefire". In fact, since the withdrawal of Israel from Gaza, the rocket attacks from Hamas have increased. Israel needs to eliminate every last Hamas terrorist, much to the chagrin of first-world leftists.

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In order to get to the Hamas missile dumps, the IDF would have had to move in quickly. However, instead of doing that, the Jewish government wasted a day waffling with European leaders about a "ceasefire". So now, Hamas has regrouped, restocked, and can happily continue to shoot rockets into Israel. In the end, Hamas will come out stronger than before. Like Lebanon reloaded.

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My guess is that Israel will agree to a 48-hour cease fire before the ground offensive. At that time Hamas and the militants will once again get the chance to stop the rocket fire.

This is a LA Times' most recent article:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-gaza1-2009jan01,0,1474167.story

It has more information about what's going on behind the scenes:

"Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told a meeting of his security advisors that the French proposal lacked guarantees to ensure that Hamas would stop firing rockets and would be prevented from smuggling more weapons into Gaza through tunnels from Egypt.

"If conditions ripen and provide a diplomatic solution for ensuring a much better security reality in the south, we will consider it," Olmert said, according to Israel's Ynet news website. "But we are not there yet."

Israeli officials emphasized that they had not rejected the French plan outright and were open to amendments and alternatives being put forward by Turkey, Egypt and other parties. Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni was flying to Paris today to meet with French President Nicolas Sarkozy."

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Thye ghastly Israeli armay is going to make more widows and orphans.

America does nothing, shame on you!!

If an arab country did this to aneighbour, America would invade, they are 2 faced horrid warmongers. If you see what is happening on telly it makes you cry. I cried for ages with my partner seeing the secnes.

Now we can look forward to seeing children and women being squashed to death by Israeli tanks.

Plesae stop it and be nice!!!

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SuperLib: What do you think will happen during the ceasefire, if Israel should agree? I think they inadvertently agreed to enough time when weighing the ceasefire agreement, and they're itching to go in. For Israel, who has already amassed tanks and troops, going in is a priority over peace, it seems, in the short run.

I really hope they are open to the alternatives you mentioned, because things aren't looking good for anyone; Iranian kids are asking permission to go in as suicide bombers, and to bomb embassies of Arab countries who do not immediately condemn Israel's actions, etc. Israel could very well get the full-scale war it asked for.

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I think Hamas would most likely use the cease fire time to get in supplies and prepare to attack Israel. They'd also probably fire more rockets into Israel, but a reduced amount. I hope I'm wrong, but that's what my head tells me they will do. Hamas already passed once on the chance to stop firing rockets when the cease fire ended and Israel opened the border to supplies. Maybe the threat of more losses will convince them to change their minds, but it's my opinion that they'll sacrifice their own people to strike Israel. Attacking Israel is their #1 priority, even at the expense of their civilians. If that changes then the cease fire will be a positive thing.

I don't think Israel has any desire to go into Gaza. They'll take losses and it will make their exit strategy much more difficult. But Israel's done most of what it can do from the air. The remaining missile silos are near schools and houses so Israel can't fire from planes, they have to take them out at close range, if that's what they choose to do.

Iran is just being Iran:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-gaza-iran1-2009jan01,0,4266880.story

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I hope you're right, SuperLib... that is to say, I hope you're right about being wrong in the head (about Hamas firing in more rockets, etc.), and the ceasefire holding.

Unfortunately, I don't think Hamas will stop sacrificing their people. I wish they would, but I'm of the same mind as you that they probably won't.

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make no mistake: Israel wants the Iranian nuclear facilities expunged. They will destroy Lebanon infrastructure also.

With America surrounding Iran why not? Plus it puts pressure on oil prices again.

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going in is a priority over peace

Peace? There's never peace with Islamic terrorist groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, etc. Only hudnas. Israel stopping its offensive now would only allow Hamas to regain its strength for further rocket attacks. They need to take out the Hamas terrorists now.

I cried for ages with my partner seeing the secnes.

Pfft. The only time first-world leftists seem to care about civilian casualties of war is when Israel or the US are involved. And then it's only for political expediency. Otherwise, they couldn't care less.

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Helter Skelter- Not true actually dear!!! I often cry at terrible things like natural disasters.

Israel does not want peace, they are acting like America, without any regard for innocents lives. It's dreadfull, and of course i cry, i am a man, a real man who feels emotions.

The tanks are going to attack and squash innocent children and women and you think that is ok? Well i don'T. I think it is disgusting and terribly horrid!!!!!!

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I agree ith MikeBarrymore. The Israeli's don't want peace. Oh yes, as a man who follows current affairs over the decades, i have seen the brutality of the Israeli military.

Israel does not want peace, it wants the land, allof it, and it will take it whatever the cost in human life.

Gawd, any of us neutral observers can see Israel is going to go to Gaza and massacre innocents and destroy all the infrastructure. Their policy is wicked and is condoned by fools only. These disgracefull killings must cease, strewth the abhor me!

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I agree ith MikeBarrymore. The Israeli's don't want peace. Oh yes, as a man who follows current affairs over the decades, i have seen the brutality of the Israeli military.

Israel does not want peace, it wants the land, allof it, and it will take it whatever the cost in human life.

Those are stupid words indeed. why should Israel civilians be ducks in shooting range ??

why should any sane country allow its civilians to live in such conditions and still be reffered to as a country all this Israel LOVES TO KILL ,Israel WANTS to kill is all plain biased you people have no idea what its like to live in Israel you are plain automated to hate Israel whatever they Do.

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Gawd, Isael is committing more genocide a swe speak. No wonder all decent people are gainst them.

I believe on religous nutcases would supoort Israel due to stupid beliefs based on centuries old fairy tales.

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Israel, will get justice, strewth you'll see. The cowardly attacks with superior arms is pathetic.

Israels supporters are in the minority, and expect Jews in other countries to suffer, due to the Israeli governments genocide of arabs.

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Harold: Nicely put. How's the totting going?

Them Israeli's, blimey they is gonna feel the wrath of the world if they carry on. I aint on the arabs side, granted i am against all this bloodshed, but sometimes the arabs area bit naughty.

Not as bleeding big killers as blooming Israel though innit!!!

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“Whoever says that Hamas entered a losing gamble, we say this is the price of victory and liberation.” he said.

I hope he's enjoying the victory.

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I tend to disagree with AlfGarnet, HaroldSteptoe, and MikeBarrymore.

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I fink it's disgusting them ISraelis killing and stuff during the festive season.

I reckon they should pick on someone who has proper weapons and that.

Israel, stop acting like plonkers because the Yanks always stick up for you. You are going to get hated more and more and you deserves it.

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AlfGarnet, HaroldSteptoe, and MikeBarrymore

Watch the video.......The link is response to your posts and your so called 'outrage' for the Israeli response to HAMAS and terrorism. These people were targeted on purpose just because they were Jews.

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=HYyZ9pZE9PM

You claim you cry for the innocent Palistinian victims? Get a hankie before you link then if that is really the case or is it just selective outrage on your part? Then you won't need one.

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sailwind- I don't take much notice of propoganda posted on Youtube. Oh yes, i watch the impartial BBC everyday or read the GUardian to establish the truth.

After observing and reading the facts impartially, i conclude that Israel is commiting deliberate acts of genocide. Gawd, it's obvious, so they can steal more land and they can realise their ambition and be a superpower.

Also they have broken more UN resolutions than Saddam, why don'T the "good guys" liberate the country? Think carefully sonny because there are no arguments to my case i believe.

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sailwind: Thanks again for the one sided link. Shall I give you the millions which go against yours? nah, you just wouldn't bother watching, because then maybe you would have to see. Talk about selective outrage, you are one of the few remaining people on this site to selectively ignore the facts, my friend. Would you care to give us some links aside from youtube links and personal blogs? How about some real news? I can give you THOUSANDS of links right this minute from major news sources around the world saying Israel is out of control.... do you have anything aside from youtube?

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Harold: "Also they have broken more UN resolutions than Saddam, why don'T the "good guys" liberate the country?"

What kind of oil does Israel have? I suppose the US could once again push for regime change and just invite in a worse ruler than exists now... that's what they usually succeed in doing.

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Harold

Please explain the apparent contradictions to your 'impartial' opinion.

i conclude that Israel is commiting deliberate acts of genocide.

I conclude by looking at the actual demographics that that the Palistinian population growth rate on the West Bank is 2.225 percent and in Gaza it is 3.422 percent. Funny thing about your claim a 'genocide' is taking place. That usually means the population growth rate goes down not up but I didn't have a progressive education so I could be wrong on that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Palestinian_territories#Population_growth_rate

Your next statement.

it's obvious, so they can steal more land and they can realise their ambition and be a superpower.

I though the stereotype was the Jews are all clever. Then I just don't get this one on yours our their parts. they LEFT Gaza, got rid of the settlements she built there. Had to have her Army force the settlers out. Now they want it back again, kinda defeats the whole purpose of giving it back in the first place dontcha think?

I guess I really do need a progressive education to sort all this out.

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I agree with smithinapan- Gawd, sailwind doesn't like seeing the truth.

Israel are the barbarians of the Middle East said Harold Pinter, and i am inclined to agree, oh yes.

Blimey, you don't win a popularity contest by mass murder. No wonder Israel is losing public opinion worldwide.

I expect Iran to eradicate Israel within 5 years, if the Israeli's continue the current policies.

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sailwind- You pick out odd words in my post.

I'm afraid the level of debate is going above your head.

One, and when i say one, i mean anyone really, who has an open mind will agree Israel are the terrorists. Oh yes, it is proven beyond doubt, and all major news networks apart from the facist Fox News draw the same conclusions.

You must be more open minded and stop you neo con ideology, it stifles your thought process you know, oh yes!

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DerekTrotter- I agree with you.

KIlling and bombing during the festive "holy" times is dirty and despicable.

Israel know most people are Brahms and List at this time of year, and hope their genocide is in noticed.

How terribly vulgur. My aged father has more morals than that, and he7S practically lost all his marbles.

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One, and when i say one, i mean anyone really, who has an open mind will agree Israel are the terrorists.

Let me help you out there Harold, you see a terrorist targets innocent defenseless civilians on purpose.

A soldier in the Military cannot do that because if he targeted and shot innocent civilians on purpose then he has committed a war crime and would be tried and if convicted put in jail.

Do you see how this works Harold terrorists are cold blooded killers who have no moral compunction about who they kill, and revel in the carnage.

He also depends on good folks like you his intellectual apologist to come to the rescue and call Israel the 'real terrorists' instead. When she finally has had enough and responds to it in a Military operation.

I'll return you back to progressive land now.

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sailwind- You prove you no not of what you speak, oh yes.

Israeli military have a long record of covering up war crimes committed to its brainwashed troops.

Israel demand monitors now!!! hahahaha. What, only if they are pre picked or extreme right wingers like sailwind.

Gawd, if the genocide wasn't so sad, Israels actions would be laughable.

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Israel should FIRST OF ALL defend its civilian from a daily rocket shooting from gaza after they will achieve that (and they will by hook or by crook they have to!)they should consider the other side's Humanitarian condition. until then let Harold cry his hypocrite heart off.

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toonagi- As i am a pacifist and you believe the opposite of my view, thus it must be concluded that one is a warmonger. Oh yes, there can be no defense of Israels actions as they are murderous and care not for innocents.

Gawd, only a heartless or senile person would condone the current Israeli massacres.

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toonagi- Looking at your post history, i see the truth. One is either a Jewish extremist or christian fundementalist.

Israel cannot be trusted to keep a truce due to their history of breaking them with cowardly attacks on schools and hospitals etc.

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Israel is waging a war against the Palestinian people as the vast bulk of the victims killed are innocent civilians. This conflict is just an extention of the 60 year ongoing war against the native peoples of Palestine. The rockets which Hamas fire, land on what used to be Palestinian land before the same people firing rockets were forced to live in Gaza. Israel neither recognize, nor abides by International Law, UN Resolutions. The Israeli brainless propaganda, lies, ethno-mysticism, religious absurdity and historical deceit are repeated so that Israel can carry on their right winged racist policies.

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I agree with wot most of the people says. My missus Mildred reckons Israel is going to start WWIII and they have loads of hidden nuclear weapons and American lets them because they hate arabs as well.

Ahmed who runs the corner shop said that his wife was killed by Jews 20 years ago. And they are still killing. Strewth how can they have a truce, nobody is going to believe the Jews is fair and can trust them.

Israel is bad.

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You can not Ignore the facts ,everyone knows what Hamas charter is all about and the link to Muslim/Arabs countries. you have started making an analogy between Hamas and IRA and never finished,all you actually do is repeating the same sentences which have nothing to do with the current events. your pathetic attempts to twist reality deserves nothing more then a nonchalant turning of the back.

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toonagi- Do you condone the overwhelming use of deadly force by your beloved Israel? Do you support creating hundreds of orphans and widows?

Israel deserves to suffer as it has made other suffer, oh yes.

They cannot and will not keep to amy truce or ceasefire, they are liars and killers. Gawd, the facts are there for all to see.

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Time for an update.

I tend to disagree with AlfGarnet, HaroldSteptoe, MikeBarrymore, GeorgeRoper, and DerekTrotter. The list will be revised accordingly as "new" people arrive. ;)

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Thanks George!

Finally you found a voice that all of us can relate to, Ahmed!!!!!

At last, WE have a regular human being that WE can identify with, someone who puts a voice to our anger and speaks the words we have longed to be spoken, but that no one would hear. Best of all, he hasn't exploded in a crowded market or sawed someone's head off on the internet yet.

Thanks for sharing this, Ahmed the new hero of the working class masses.

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This time, Israel isn’t seeking a peacekeeping force, but a monitoring body that would judge compliance on both sides.

Sounds good to me.

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Hey George man, me feel sorry for your friend Ahmed. Must it bad for him to suffer his wife dead because of Jewish violence.

Me no beleieve that Israel going to keep truce. Me think so bevcause me know they do many bad things against arab country.

In my country man on TV, him say it is like "blood sport" and ISrael like it very much, too much to stop.

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Israel wants Hamas to stop firing rockets and Hamas wants Israel to open up the borders. Israel should open up the borders and Hamas should stop firing rockets.

Israel can keep bombing Gaza until there are no more targets to bomb or Israel can go into Gaza and start firing at the militants. The more people Israel kill the more resentment they will get from the Palestinians which will result in increase in Hamas popularity.

Either way Israel will lose because Israel should know better by now that you cannot win over a political movement by bombing them. It´s like weed. If you want to take weed from your garden you take the weed by it´s roots. You don´t hit on the weed from the top hoping that it will go away. Hamas being a grass root movement. Also, when Israel bombs the infra structure of Gaza and indiscriminate kill women and children and civilians then the Palestinians are not going to think this is a war against Hamas but a war against the Palestinians. And it is a war against the Palestinians. This war has been ongoing since 1948 as Israel wants to exterminate the Palestinians.

At last, WE have a regular human being that WE can identify with, someone who puts a voice to our anger and speaks the words we have longed to be spoken, but that no one would hear. Best of all, he hasn't exploded in a crowded market or sawed someone's head off on the internet yet.

Atleast a suicide bomber has guts enough to blow himself up unlike an Israeli coward who drop bombs on an apartment block while hiding behind a F16 or a tank.

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I agree with MikeBarrymore, HaroldSteptoe,isojso,AlfGarnett,DerekTrotter and GeorgeRoper.

Israel cannot be trusted. I hope Gordon Brown imposes sanctions on Israel for this wanton slaughter of the innocents.

I put no faith in a truce with Israel. They have proved to be liars , their past is cathcing up with them, and their violence will soon no longer be tolerated worldwide.

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I also agree with MrEggAndSpoon. Yes it does seem at times that Israel enjoys killing like "blood sports".

It is i suppose a sign of the lengths people will go to in the name of religion.

The truce or ceasefire, haha, Israel you are no longer trusted or respected by anyone ecept extremists.

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I think Israel cannot be trusted. Most posters on here seem to agree with me.

I think the truce would be broken by Israel with lies of a Hamas missle launch or similar. I feel sorry for all those murdered by the Israeli killing machine. RIP

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Atleast a suicide bomber has guts enough to blow himself up unlike an Israeli coward who drop bombs on an apartment block while hiding behind a F16 or a tank.

Okay, I'll play progressive. How about this since a suicide bomber has 'guts' which usually end up splattered all over a crowded market or bus full of innocent people, along with their 'guts' also. A true hero who targets defenseless people on purpose, instead of a coward flying an F-16 and bombing a military target.

How about this since 'fairness' is the progressive mantra and morals are all relative.

Isreal stops the military campaign to defang Hamas and re-opens the borders under the following conditions.

For every rocket and mortar launched into her land she responds with exactly the same type of dumb rocket or mortar round into Gaza with no targeting involved.

They launch one Israel lobs one back in return. Of course you have no idea where they will hit but were now playing by HAMAS rules. Have to be fair about this after all.

Second there does have to be one slight modification to this, since there is a dearth of suicide bomb volunteers in Israel to go with those brave gut filled martyrs you mention in Gaza. The Israelis just seem to love life instead of worshiping death like Hamas does.

Once a suicide bombing attack occurs in Israel, what the hey lets say another bus full of commuters going to work. Israel then gets to launch a targeted round on a comparable target in Gaza. Maybe the local Taxi crowded stand she gets to choose what day and time she can do it in to keep in the spirit of things as to you never know when your going to get blasted.

Progressive solution that is fair to all parties and levels the field, well not really the playing field is going to look a little rough after all those random missles and rockets land but it is "Fair".

I think a progressive supporter of HAMAS would be proud of my suggestion here to end this.

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Quirinus3- Very good post. Oh yes, i agree with ones view on the matter.

As a pacifist, i am obviously very unhappy with Israel. Also TheNewFront, i agree with you, i hope PM BRown takes action at once.

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Atleast a suicide bomber has guts enough to blow himself up unlike an Israeli coward who drop bombs on an apartment block while hiding behind a F16 or a tank.

Thats what happens when theres no value for human life... people calling a suicide bomber is a hero and anyone who considers protecting himself is a "coward"

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How about this since a suicide bomber has 'guts' which usually end up splattered all over a crowded market or bus full of innocent people, along with their 'guts' also. A true hero who targets defenseless people on purpose, instead of a coward flying an F-16 and bombing a military target.

Sailwind old chap. I am not sure if your problem is English but you need to read what I wrote. I said, at least a suicide bomber has more guts than a coward Israeli who drops bombs on an apartment block hiding behind an F16 or tank.

You can't pacify people who have been oppressed. It doesn't matter how long you terrorise them, they will rise up against the occupation and oppression. The more ammunition Israel throw, the more hatred there will be, and less chance for peace. Israel as the occupying force should advocate a policy that pushes things forward and doesn't promote fear and hatred and ruin people's lives. For every "terrosist" they kill 10 more are born. Israel should know this by now.

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I can't believe someone is calling a suicide bomber a hero. How screwd up and twisted has the world become?

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I think all killings are beastly. The man on BBC said the Israeli's are killing about 100 against 1 Israeli. That is slaughter and is not self defence.

Would anyone trust Israel to abide by a truce. Well why should we with their ghastly record of abuse?

Watching this on the news made me cry so much my eyes are sore, why can't we have peace?

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Are you serious?? You think Hamas is right for firing rockets blindly into civilian towns? Israel has listened to everyone in the past and has stopped their defensive attacks against palestine only to find that Hamas used that time to re-arm and fire rockets into Israel. So how can you blame them for being fed up with it?

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I can't believe someone is calling a suicide bomber a hero. How screwd up and twisted has the world become?

For those who have hard time understanding English. A person who drops a bomb on an apartment block hiding behind an F16 is a bigger coward than a suicide bomber. You guys can keep on supporting the cowards who drop bombs on apartment blocks hiding behind F16s. You guys can even think of these Israeli cowards as heroes. If the Israelis are such peace loving people, why don’t they make a real effort to treat their neighbors like human beings? Why didn´t Israel give food, aid, medicine during the time when Hamas was not firing a single rocket? Why is it that Israel is unwilling to remove their settlers from the Westbank and East jerusalem and keep the blockade on Gaza? The Palestinians just want their land, pride, culture and freedom back.

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Then they should revolt against Hamas. If they really want peace, all they have to do is stop their aggressiveness twords Israel.

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I once read, I think nearly 20 years ago now, a graphic novel called 'Sandman'. In it thousands are killed by an alien presence which suddenly appears. Humanity destroys it and all religions, backgrounds, etc., join in a common cause to fight the enemy. As it turns out, and is revealed in the comic, there actually is no alien but it was fabricated by the government to unite humanity and stop us from killing each other over petty differences.

This is not a graphic novel, of course. But it seems the only way we are going to NOT destroy ourselves is to find a common enemy. Until then, blame all you want, but the enemy is ourselves.

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smithinjapan- The enemy are the ghastly people, whether citizens or governments who seek to resolve things with violence.

Israel is supposed to be morally superior according to America, but it just kills all the time. There will not be a truce. Will the ghastly deaths ever stop. I hate it, i hate it.

I've cried so much watching the images of death since this beastly attack started.

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For those who have hard time understanding English. A person who drops a bomb on an apartment block hiding behind an F16 is a bigger coward than a suicide bomber.

For those that have no moral compass.

A suicide bomber that targets innocent civilians ON PURPOSE with the intent of killing them is an animal......... I'm appalled that one could even try to compare the two.

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Israel drops on apartment blocks on purpose while hiding behind an F16. They are the bigger cowards.

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sailwind, if life was black and white then yes that last statement of yours would of course be true...but life is grey..can you clarify what you mean by "innocent civilians" in this context. are all israeli people,living in israel, who are actively not wearing a military uniform innocent civilians? Are those israeli civilians who used to be civilians in another country until they decided to return to "their god given country" and live in illegal settlements constructed in occupied territories..are they also all innocent civilians. All civilians in israel are expected to serve in the military at some point in their lives..are these people innocent civilians before they join the military and do they become innocent civilians again once they leave the military..and are all actions perpetrated or likely to be perpetrated by these potential/past military people inconsequential to their status of "innocent civilian"?

Are family members of non "innocent civilians" who knowingly allow/help them to continue their non innocent activities able to be classified as "innocent civilians" Try and wedge open that blind eye of yours for just long enough to get a glimpse of reality.

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Governments, not to mention commanders on the ground, in fact prefer to avoid "asymmetric warfare" operations because they usually end without an obvious victor. That's right, nobody says "uncle," there is no white flag waved and, of course, no peace treaty is signed formalizing the end of the fighting. (This is why the US "victory" in Iraq has not been recognized, much to the chagrin of some who see a liberal media conspiracy to deny the GWB administration and those who "knew we could do it" their due.)

Most of what I know about war I learned from teaching political refugees at the start of the Gulf War in 1991. Though they had sought refuge in the US, they were very suspicious of our government and media reports "only two killed." Having lived through things like the civil war in El Salvador, where a communist insurgency was beaten back but at great civilian cost, they understandably viewed such claims skeptically.

Once the decision was made to start a bombing campaign against Hamas collateral damage was inevitable, Sailwind. It is simply impossible to carry out a military strike in one of the most densely populated parts of the world without civilian casualties. None other than Hamas is banking on this. Militants hide among the innocent knowing the world will condemn Israel for any loss of life.

The same condemnation is not leveled against suicide bombers, no matter how many bodies are carried out of a marketplace or mosque. The reason for this double standard is simple: suicide bombers are not acting to further a country's objectives. So we can't blame a government for their criminal deeds. For this reason, the US Military will always be more harshly condemned than the Madhi Army for actions that result in the loss of civilian life in Iraq.

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Bento,

Let me help you with your intellectual fog here.

Terrorist kills thirty people at a bus stop and then gets arrested.

He's charged with what?

Clears it up now doesn't it.

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The laughable fact is that in all honesty Israelis still consider themselves to be the more heavily persecuted populous. Crazy selfish people..come on moderate Jews stand up for common decency before your zionist masters lead you all back to the wilderness.

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nope no clearer..where is the bus stop? outside the recruiting office for the local militia? who uses the bus regularly..members of the militia..in uniform or out of uniform...?

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Bento

Terrorist kills thirty people at a bus stop and then gets arrested.

He's charged with what?

nope no clearer..where is the bus stop? outside the recruiting office for the local militia? who uses the bus regularly..members of the militia..in uniform or out of uniform...?

Didn't answer the question.

Well try multiple choice then might help you out better.

Terrorist kills thirty people at a bus stop and then gets arrested.

He's charged with what?

A. Littering B. Disturbing the Peace C. Thirty Counts of Murder

Hint.......The original question had the number thirty in it. Take your time I know you can get this.

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I`m waiting for your definition of innocent civilians..are you able to formulate one or not?

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I`m waiting for your definition of innocent civilians..are you able to formulate one or not?

A person who falls under the jurisdiction of a civilian court of law.

The answer is C by the way.

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Terrorist kills thirty people at a bus stop and then gets arrested.

Since we're dealing with suicide bombers here, it doesn't usually play out that way. They've opted to leave judgment to a higher authority.

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So by your own definition a passenger who, the previous night, had been at a fund raiser for an orginization with "links to terrorism" and had donated money knowing that this would find its way back to the "struggle" at some point and be used to directly finance the purchase of weaponary.Such a person, caught in the terrorist attack at the bus stop, (possibly even perpetrated by the same group he had donated money to the previous night) would be by your own definition an "innocent civilian" merely because if they had lived and had been implicated in financing a terrorist organization would have had their case heard in a civilian court? Can you really be that naive? Out of interest how did you come up with your definition,was it all your own work?

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MikeBarrymore = GeorgeRoper = AlfGarnett = HaroldSteptoe = DereckTrotter = MrEggAndSpoon = Quirinus3

There's probably even more than that....those are just the ones I found. I thought maybe Japan Today was hiring people to post on their site, but now I'm wondering if the guy is just schizophrenic. At this point there's really no way to tell.

TheNewFront = TheNewZen....but probably not the same guy as above.

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I hope, kinda, like that Obama puts pressure on Israel and force them to stop their killing. It's wrong man, you know what i'm saying.

Hey Israel, be nice to Palestine and they treat you good to, then everything is gonna be cool. Chill out Israel, you are making too many people mad at you, kinda, you know.

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I hope Israel comes to its senses and stops the killings. That is the best one can hope for, oh and i may add a strong condemnation from Bush and BRown would be the icing on the cake, oh yes.

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Goddam you Israel. I was brought up to believe you were the good guys in the region, now i'm having serious doubts.

The heavy handed lack of remorse way of dealing with their neighbours shocks me, these guys are very religous right?

I don't thing a truce or ceasefire will prevail. I can only see more deaths and more pain. It is terrible.

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Hey guys calm down. Let's all look at this in a fair and balanced manner ok! Hamas has been firing rockets daily into Israel, however these attacks are rarely deadly.

Israel has retaliated over these attack, in what many believe to be a heavy handed manner. I guess on this occasion i gotta agree. I believe Israel took this action before Obama became president and during the Christmas period to detract attention. However they failed, more people are angererd with Israel fo0r using these methods during the holy time.

Something has to be done, and i urge all world leaders to try to help resolve this matter, it has to stop.

Let's hope this year is one with much less bloodshed than last year.

Giving it to you straight. And that's a wrap!

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I see this as a way for Israel to bring in a 3rd party to see who will break the next cease fire.

They are so adamant that Palestine continues to break the ceasefires, that this time they want somebody there to see with their own eyes.

Nobody has any reason to disbelieve them, unless they have extreme bias.

Hamas has been firing rockets daily into Israel, however these attacks are rarely deadly.

Ok, but they are still firing rockets. Israel's response may be considered overkill. Maybe Israel is trying to stop the rocket firing with swiftness. Who knows. Anyways, a ceasefire is a ceasefire. If one side breaks that, then all bets are off until another agreement can be made. It's been like this for years.

What I don't understand is why Israel usually always gets the bulk of criticism.

Would someone be able to give an unbiased explanation as why that is?

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Bento: How did you find this out Superlib? or is it a guess..

They all congratulate each other on their posts...."Words of wisdom ALf, well said."...."Thanks for your support Mr Rope"..."Harold: Nicely put. How's the totting going?"..."Very well said Mike."..."I agree with Harold."..."Very well said Mike."

They all respond to people the same way....they add the person's name with a - after it, for example: OssanAmerica-, Caopster78-, OssanAmerica-, sailwind-.

All of the accounts were created within 30 days of each other back in August/September 2008.

They generally post about the US, British sports, and several of them have talked about living on a pension.

I'm probably wrong about thenewzen/thenewfront. Just some random coincidences.

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I think its awfull, all this trouble when the rest of the world is happy and celebrating.

My wife Betty said "Frank turn the news off it's too upsetting". She doesn't usually get like that. It makes me really worried about the future for my little daughter.

Will there really be a truce? Will it carry on? Will it escalate to a world war? Who knows, it's too unpredictable.

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Helter Skelter: I notice it is always the minority right wingers like yourself who make these claims. People here may already be friends or have made friends on other Japan related forums, i know i have.

The level of discussion is fine, except for a few extreme loonies on both sides. Stop making accusations, just because you are in cyberspace doesn't mean the rules of decency should not apply.

As for the topic, which you fail to discuss at all, i don't think there will be a truce and neither do i think either side really wants one.

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I would also consider a ground war until a truce can be settled apon. Monitors are desperately needed in cases like these.

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This is about the possible truce. My opinion is, it won't happen.

There will not be peace in the Mid East in my lifetime i fear.

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They should be careful what they wish for. The EU "monitors" in South Lebanon are standing by and twiddling their thumbs while Hizb-Allah is stocking up with rockets like crazy, getting ready to attach Israel again. The only purpose of the monitors is to act as human shields against Israels reaction.

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I notice it is always the minority right wingers like yourself who make these claims.

Superlib initially made the claim and he's a moderate. But nice try.

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Bento

Such a person, caught in the terrorist attack at the bus stop, (possibly even perpetrated by the same group he had donated money to the previous night) would be by your own definition an "innocent civilian" merely because if they had lived and had been implicated in financing a terrorist organization would have had their case heard in a civilian court?

What part of innocent until proven guilty in a court of law eludes you here?

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i see your definition of innocent civilian has entered an ameboidesk metamorphosis..you failed to mention the innocent "until proven guilty" ,codisyl attached to your definition until now..originally you merely said they were anybody that fell under the jurisdiction of a civilian court..yes? never the less by your new definition and expanding your original example of the bomb attack at the bus stop, if this attack had been carried out as a suicide attack (and as a general rule of thumb ,suicide bombers tend to die in their attacks),which technically may be their first "act of terrorism" and they have not been convicted of a crime in a civilian court of law preceding this event and are not proven members of illegal organizations..you are saying that even the bomber themselves fall into the "innocent civilian" category?

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Its interesting. They're calling for INTERNATIONAL moniters to over see any possible cease-fire. Which means for all you simple "peaceniks" that someone else from mediating country will get to see who is the first to break the cease-fire treaty if another one gets in place. Israel is apparantly sick and tired of hearing from folks safe and sound in their own lands without worry, telling them how mean bad and nasty they are, when those "other" folks don't have to live with it. So see it with your own eyes before saying anything is their message.

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"Can Obama simply start early" As some put it! The joke, that wasn't really a joke! INTERNATIONAL moniters should install cameras all around, post them to Youtube! 400 dead is a lot!

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The camera idea would have to be in real time... they could be monitored by Isreal, Hamas, and the international community...

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On the other hand: stealing land is not ok. Killing people is not ok. Oppression is not OK. So everyones in teh wrong but all psychotically fascinated with a dream of bloody revenge. And around and around it goes. Any ceasefire will be temporary, noone will ever be happy. I pity everyone who really doesnt have murder in thier hearts who are stuck in that god forsaken area, because that is what its become. No matter how much they try to use religeon as a crutch to justify thier actions. If you need an excuse, then you dont have a good reason in the first place.

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