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Israel threatens retaliation for Gaza rocket fire

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Israeli’s prime minister threatened “harsh and disproportionate” retaliation

I guess previous criticism for this had no effect.

Hamas has not taken responsibility for the new attacks, which have been claimed by smaller militant groups. But Israel says it holds Hamas, which has ruled Gaza since seizing power in June 2007, responsible for all attacks coming from there.

How convenient! A couple weeks after specifically targeting Hamas leadership, and killing who knows how many of them, and also killing other militants and civlians too, and raining bombs all over Gaza, Hamas has to keep total control, OR ELSE! I am going to coin a new term here: An Israeli convenience.

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likeitis supports terrorism.

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Looks like Mr. "Fair and Balanced" just can't find any words of criticism for Palestinian terrorists....again. ;)

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No criticism for the Palestinians, eh likeitis? I thought you were "fair and balanced"....

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No criticism for the Palestinians, eh likeitis? I thought you were "fair and balanced"....

I hope the people breaking the ceasefire rot in hell. Trouble is, I don't know exactly who they are. But I think I know who YOU think they are.

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My guess is it's the Palestinians....but we just can't be sure, eh likeitis?

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SuperLib: Which Palestinians do you think it is in particular, since Hamas has claimed that it is not them doing the launching. I think they should be given the benefit of the doubt for the time being, as long as they prove they are making efforts to try and reign it in. If they can provide no proof or refuse to do such, then Israel has more of a reason to claim it's Hamas.

The people who are doing this are morons, coming off what just happened in particular. However, I find it completely conceivable that it's the actions of some rotten individuals, and while I don't doubt Hamas is secretly happy about it, I don't think they can be held entirely accountable if they are trying to control it (again, they need to show they are, and Israel needs to allow them to do so).

Likeitis is correct in his postings, though, that Israel is flip-flopping and trying to find convenient excuses for its failures and possibly for future incursions. At least this time they're being honest and admitting any future attack would be disproportionate and not trying to say it is just.

So, there you go... we are condemning the people firing these rockets. How about you? Still making excuses for the Israeli extremism?

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What excuses do I need to make? Israel hasn't really responded yet. So far you're claiming Israel extremism while throwing yourself in front of Hamas.

What you guys don't get is that this represents a larger problem with the Palestinians, which is that they will have a difficult time delivering peace. Even if they sign a peace deal tomorrow they most likely lack the oversight and control of their own area to guarantee anything. I understand that you're fine just saying that you technically can't blame Hamas and leaving it at that, but there's 500 lb. gorilla in the room tapping you on the shoulder right now. What your really saying is that a peace deal with Hamas might be useless if other extremists within Palestine will just cancel it overnight.

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The extreemists are not only Palestinian, and the Palestinian extreemists are not the only extreemists who have their own agenda in Israel and Palestine. Can Israel be sure who's extreemists are doing what?

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Takeno prisioners! In the old days each warring faction would kill all men of military age.

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How do we know that hamas fired those rockets?

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Israel hasn't really responded yet.

Is the only "real" response a military one?!? Israel has made an extreme statement, that Hamas is responsible for everything everyone in Gaza does against Israel. This is the same as holding America responsible for what a criminal from America does in your country. In some ways there is responsibility, but the trouble is the way Israel will use that for "disproportionate retaliation".

while throwing yourself in front of Hamas.

And you summarily blame Hamas again!

Even if they sign a peace deal tomorrow they most likely lack the oversight and control of their own area to guarantee anything.

This fact is totally appreciated. So is the fact that Fatah defies Hamas, and can only gain if the violence starts again. Ponder that for a bit.

What your really saying is that a peace deal with Hamas might be useless if other extremists within Palestine will just cancel it overnight.

How many rockets in the last couple weeks? Deals are not useless, but they will not be 100 percent until the situation is completely resolved. That is life. And there is A LOT left to resolve, including Israeli control of Gaza. Its amazing how much control of Gaza Israel retains, yet blames Hamas squarely when a mortar or rocket flies over! Its like a kid acts bad and the father says to a mother "Well, he is your son!".

May the ceasefire continue. May small incidents not ruin it.

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likeitis: "May the ceasefire continue. May small incidents not ruin it."

Best statement of the day on this thread. Kudos.

It would of course be ideal if there were no small incidents at all, but as you said, there is a lot remaining to be resolved.

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Still no criticism for the Palestinians, eh likeitis?

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Still no criticism for the Palestinians, eh likeitis?

Why should I criticize the Palestinians so specifically here and now? You and I both know it was most likely Palestinians who did this, and I already said I hope they rot in Hell. What more do you want?

If and when it is proven that Palestinians did this, I will specifically say I hope those specific Palestinians rot in Hell. I will say the same for whoever ordered it. But it won't be because they fired rockets at their jailers. It will be because we have another chance for peace and negotiations that could lead to freedom and they are ruining it.

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Israel hit back late Sunday, bombing the Gaza-Egypt border area where Hamas smuggles weapons through tunnels, Palestinians said.

Late Sunday, Palestinians reported huge explosions as Israeli warplanes dropped bombs on the Gaza-Egypt border area...

Now it appears that the above are retalitory strikes. But I guess when you have jets, bombers, tanks, White Phosphorus and a treasury of US money; hell these aren't retalitory strikes, they are just happy slaps I suspect.

But they will be back and Israel will kill many many more. < :-)

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"Gaza militants fired at least 10 rockets and mortar shells into southern Israel on Sunday"

likeitis: Why should I criticize the Palestinians so specifically here and now?

I couldn't have asked for a better example, Mr. Fair and Balanced.

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daydream: But I guess when you have jets, bombers, tanks, White Phosphorus and a treasury of US money; hell these aren't retalitory strikes, they are just happy slaps I suspect.

I prefer to call them "tickle fights."

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SuperLib: But didn't you just say, "Israel hasn't really responded yet."? and then once again accuse us of being with Hamas ('throwing yourselves in front of Hamas') after we clearly, AGAIN, said how stupid the 'with us or against us' logic is?

Geez, man.

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"Gaza militants fired at least 10 rockets and mortar shells into southern Israel on Sunday"

May those Gaza militants rot in Hell. Those Gaza militants. Not all Palestinians. Can you see the difference?

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Israeli’s prime minister threatened “harsh and disproportionate” retaliation

Does Israel practice any other sort of retaliation? I guess I'm still waiting for the "measured and moderate" response. I suppose we'll see that in a couple of weeks when Benjamin Netanyahu gets elected, right?

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I guess I'm still waiting for the "measured and moderate" response." If you smoke near me and the smoke goes in my face, I'll ask you to stop. If you continue, I'll ask you to stop or I will beat the crap out of you and then you blow smoke in my face and I'll response possibly with a pool ball in a sock and whack you with it until your lips are so bad, you won't be able to smoke.

Why does a response have to be equal?

This is simple, Israel just told you what they are going to do to you, why the hell must you antagonize them? I don't mess with the baddest dude on my block, why should you?

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skip,

Before you choose to beat the crap out of someone, you better make sure you know who is blowing the smoke in your face.

The smoke might even come from your own pants, which are on fire...

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Why does a response have to be equal?

Because it guarantees that Hamas and the militants survive while they progress to even more powerful weapons to use in the future.

In reality, there is no way to give a measured response to people randomly firing rockets into your country on a daily basis. And the principal of measured response seems moot when you're dealing with an enemy who refuses to stop. Perhaps with another nation they'd stop after the response, so in that sense a measured response stops an escalation, but we know Hamas and the militants are willing to sacrifice every last woman and child just to keep firing. It's the only thing they know....war.

No sane person believes that Hamas and the militants will militarily force Israel to open the borders. It's their warlike position that makes it impossible for Israel to open the borders to them. Any sane person will tell you that a military strategy is doomed to fail. Their only option is negotiation and peaceful resistance. So what do they do? Start a fresh round of rocket firing...

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sabiwabi: The smoke might even come from your own pants, which are on fire...

The only thing burning right now is Gaza...and the only person cheering is you. Keep supporting their doomed strategy. It's bound to pay off some day. In the meantime, enjoy the slums that you helped to create.

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@skipthesong

This is simple, Israel just told you what they are going to do to you, why the hell must you antagonize them? I don't mess with the baddest dude on my block, why should you?

It's simple, only a few nutters are needed to fire rockets into Israel. There are almost 1.5 million people packed into Gaza - most of them have nothing to do with the nutters, nor do they have the means to stop them.

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@Superlib

My guess is it's the Palestinians....but we just can't be sure, eh likeitis?

I love the use of 'Palestinians' here - are we talking Group Responsibility? Are we going to target them all? Even in the West Bank, Lebanon?

'Palestinian Militants' is much more accurate, and realistic. Of course, if a realistic view was taken of the conflict then we'd have to see the victims as people, rather that just 'Palestinians' or 'Israelis'.

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Of course, the Israeli Government's response to this has been to bomb a Gazan Police Station. That'll make it easier for them to crack down on militants!

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The de facto government in Gaza announced on Tuesday that 230 members of its police and security forces, including the chief of police were killed in Israel’s three-week war on Gaza. The chief of police, Tawfiq Jaber, was also killed. Many of the police officers were killed on the first day of Israel’s massive bombing campaign on 27 December. Among the targets of the airstrikes were a number of police stations, the Ministry of the Interior, and even a police cadet graduation ceremony.

This might explain why they are having problems keeping everything under control in Gaza.

Reading non-western news might help explain why

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Of course, everyone giving Hamas a free pass.

Ask yourself a few basic questions. WHO, if not Hamas, has ANYTHING to gain by lobbing rockets at Israel in disregard of the cease fire? Who, if not Hamas, as the elected officials of that area, ARE responsible for the behavior of the people within their borders.

And lastly... WHY do some people think the non-nutters are "powerless" to stop them. The hell they are. They voted for the government they've gotten, and the government they put in place is the one that got them in this recent position to begin with.

Elections have consequences. The "nutters" are taking advantage of Hamas being in power because the nutters ARE Hamas.

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This might explain why they are having problems keeping everything under control in Gaza.

...because Hamas was arresting militants by the dozens before Israel took away the police station!

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Why would Israel target police stations and a police cadet graduation ceremony?

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Ask yourself a few basic questions. WHO, if not Hamas, has ANYTHING to gain by lobbing rockets at Israel in disregard of the cease fire?

Fatah. And Israelis invested in the arms industry.

Who, if not Hamas, as the elected officials of that area, ARE responsible for the behavior of the people within their borders.

The one who has them 90 percent sealed in, by land, sea and air: The Israelis. To a lesser extend too, the Egyptians, who I note are bowing to demands by...wait for it....the Israelis.

And lastly... WHY do some people think the non-nutters are "powerless" to stop them.

Because the people have no right to bear arms? Because the Israelis kept them disarmed, first by occupation and now by strict control of what goes into Gaza, by land, sea and air.

They voted for the government they've gotten, and the government they put in place is the one that got them in this recent position to begin with.

They sure did. Bizzare too, considering all the progress Fatah was making. Why the Gazans were almost free! Just another, what, million miles or so? I don't understand why oh why they gave up on Fatah.

And then, to make matters worse, the Fatah, puppeteered by Israel and the U.S. with money and arms, got thumped by Hamas. Now there is not much opposition to Hamas.

Elections have consequences.

That they do. You choose the violent party and you get violence. You choose the tolerate oppression party, you get oppression. Tough choices.

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@Loki520

And lastly... WHY do some people think the non-nutters are "powerless" to stop them. The hell they are. They voted for the government they've gotten, and the government they put in place is the one that got them in this recent position to begin with.

I've experience of living in a country where the 'nutters' held sway. Make any prublic utterances against them an you'd be due a kneecapping - get them on a bad day and they'd kill you. Powerless.

Moderator: Back on topic please.

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That's 'public', not 'prublic' - doh!

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"Livni told the Cabinet meeting that Israel hammered Gaza for three weeks to persuade Palestinian militants to stop their daily rocket barrages."

Clearly the 'message' didn't work, as everyone predicted it wouldn't. Now it's back to square one if these morons don't stop firing rockets and the government can't reign them in. Again, this announcement is more or less just a means for Israel to go in again; like them dropping leaflets before they drop bombs, and simply saying 'we warned you' when innocents die.

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"Palestinians" love their misery. It's more obvious than ever.

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@wuzzademcrat

Oh yes, tar them all with the same brush why don't you? I guess it make it easier to ignore them when they become 'collateral damage'.

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"Gaza rocket fire"

What's up with that?

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They need to cut all money to the Palestinians/Hamas and this war would stop. Cutting money to Israel would help also.

Cutting off the money will stop this war, make them suffer, and bring them to the bargaining table.

Right now they don't want peace, since they get the money thru protracted war.

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Israel knows where the schools are that were UN safe havens and they bombed them. They knbew where the hospitals were and bombed them.

Why not bomb the police stations? That causes more chaos and gets more militants to shoot off rockets.

If I was a citizen of Gaza and Israel was blocking my borders and treating us like prisoners who they want to starve to death, I'd be digging tunnels.

I remember my radical younger years. And my thinking then. I can understand radical youths retaliating against the Israel.

They need to get a truce worked on and open the borders. That will releave moree tensions then the lockdown. < :-)

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I remember my radical younger years. And my thinking then. I can understand radical youths retaliating against the Israel.

You were a terrorist in your younger years?!?!?!?!

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Hamas has always claimed that they alone are the elected rulers of Gasa (as a posed to the PA), yet now we find that they don’t in fact have much control. Also, since the truces started hamas has been proclaiming a victory against Israel & maybe some stupid Palestinians actually believed them to the point that they thought it was safe to fire a few more rockets into Israel.

What surprised me most is that Sabiwabi didn’t blame Israel for firing the rockets, missed his chance to shield hamas there. No Sabiwabi I do not think that you are pro-hamas, but I think that you are so anti-Israel you will excuse anything that is done against Israel. Like so many here you are blind to anything that might provide an understanding of what Israel has been up against for a very long time. An understanding of what has been done to the Palestinians is easy, blame Israel. But what of the Palestinian leadership past & present, do they not share any of the responsibility for where the Palestinians are today?

For the last few days the final battles have been taking place between the Tamil tigers & the Sri Lankan army, crowded hospitals have been shelled & the world’s press have been banned from getting anywhere near the conflict. Yet here we are still looking at how murderous those nasty Israelis have been to the Gasans. Why have I not seen your name on the Sri Lanka thread, could it be because there are no Israelis involved?

My position is still as simplistic as ever, hamas are a gang of killers that put their children on offer to win over the gullible of the world. The Gasans support hamas, as we are so often told, they voted for them, & least we forget (as convenience sometimes helps us to do) hamas are Palestinians, they did not arrive from some other place.

The rockets came out of Gasa, gasa is hamas controlled, hamas therefore must take the responsibility, & the Palestinian people will just have to think a little more carefully next time they get a chance to vote, assuming hamas ever let that happen again.

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yet now we find that they don’t in fact have much control.

Difficult to control everything when Israel has specifically targeted police stations.

What surprised me most is that Sabiwabi didn’t blame Israel for firing the rockets, missed his chance to shield hamas there.

I don't know who fired the rockets. Why would I blame anyone.

Moderator: Stay on topic please.

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I don't know who fired the rockets. Why would I blame anyone.

sabiwabi,

I do believe that is the funniest thing you have ever written! Thanks for that!

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Kinniku, I always felt this conflict amused you.

Hamas has not taken responsibility for the new attacks, which have been claimed by smaller militant groups

Since you seem to have all the answers, why don't you tell us who these smaller militant groups are, and whether they have any backers or protectors?

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sabiwabi,

Umm...what you wrote is amusing to me. I have never said this conflict amuses me. You wouldn't happen to be attempting to twist people's words again, would you?

To be clear what amused me about what you wrote is that in the past you have attempted to blame Israel for shooting the rockets. I am often surprised you haven't started to blame aliens from space.

As to who the smaller militant groups and their backers are, a simple google search would give you the answers you desire. The fact you have still not had time "to fact-check" this kind of information leads me to believe you are actually not particularly interested in the details of this conflict...

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Hamas controls Gaza, therefore they are the authority, are they not? If they "can't" control the "smaller militant groups" then Hamas should be responsible for that. It seems that some people here are willing to go to great lengths to disregard this reality. If Hamas allow these smaller militant groups (as if Hamas isn't militant) to fire rockets into Isreal again, they can't just give a shoulder shrug and say, "sorry we didn't do it." This is too simple an excuse for any sympathizer.

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As to who the smaller militant groups and their backers are, a simple google search...

I see, you don't know.

To be clear what amused me about what you wrote is that in the past you have attempted to blame Israel for shooting the rockets.

I have only raised the possibility that it could have been Israel (e.g., Mossad) firing the rockets or Israel paying Arabs to attack Israel, to give them an excuse to retaliate. They have done it before. For example, you might want to check out the diaries of Moshe Sharett, a former Prime Minister of Israel.

Jackseoul, Hamas is responsible to some extent, but you also have to realize that Israel has specifically targeted police stations and other security related facilities during their recent carnage. A large number of police were among the casualties. This makes it more difficult to keep things under control.

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I see, you don't know.

That is not what I wrote. What I wrote is that you can find the answer to your question quite simply by checking. Are you aware of how many 'militant' Palestinian groups are known to exist? Do you actually expect me to list them all for you? To what end? So that you can ignore the information as you usually do?

I have only raised the possibility that it could have been Israel

Exactly...you blamed Israel. That is why I found this amusing:

I don't know who fired the rockets. Why would I blame anyone.

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BTW, since I truly doubt you have actually read Moshe Sharett's diary, I will discount you comments referring to that and ask you for specific instances when Israel fired rockets or paid Arabs to attack Israel. Remember, specifics, please...

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Sabiwabi,

Hamas is responsible to some extent, but you also have to realize that Israel has specifically targeted police stations and other security related facilities during their recent carnage. A large number of police were among the casualties. This makes it more difficult to keep things under control.

I realize that the police were targeted and it makes it difficult to control other militant groups, however, the police were Hamas officials, making them combatants in their own right. Leading by example is always the best way, but in the case of the Gaza the leaders failed miserably; the restraint and leadership on the West Bank is to be commended.

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kinniku, if you interpret "raising the possibility that it could have been Israel" as actually "blaming Israel", you are being overly defensive, paranoid maybe? Lithium might be helpful.

BTW, since I truly doubt you have actually read Moshe Sharett's diary, I will discount you comments referring to that and ask you for specific instances when Israel fired rockets or paid Arabs to attack Israel. Remember, specifics, please...

"you can find the answer to your question quite simply by checking."

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however, the police were Hamas officials, making them combatants in their own right.

I guess that also includes firemen, medical staff, or any other civil officer. Now I know why some estimates of civilian casualties are so low. I don't think police officers or traffic officers are launching rockets, why specifically target them?

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Hamas killed over a hundred Fatah personnel during the recent hostilities. But yeah, we need to focus on how Israel supposedly targeted a "police station."

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sabiwabi,

if you interpret "raising the possibility that it could have been Israel" as actually "blaming Israel",

Ummm...you have written that 'it stinks of Mossad' and other such comments. That is quite a bit more than 'raising the possibility'.

you are being overly defensive, paranoid maybe?

LOL. Thank you. I think that is the smile of the day! Considering you have seen 'Zionists' behind everything from 'faking the moon landing' and 'spreading lies of global warming' to 'backing the Nazis takeover of Europe', I think you are hardly in a position to judge about paranoia.

"you can find the answer to your question quite simply by checking."

See, the thing is, I have checked and I have also read Sharett's book. (A good read BTW) and I have not seen anything of the sort. Perhaps you could give a the page numbers of the references and some examples of what you are talking about. For they don't seem to exist in what is known as the world of reality.

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sabiwabi,

I said

however, the police were Hamas officials, making them combatants in their own right.

You said,

I guess that also includes firemen, medical staff, or any other civil officer. Now I know why some estimates of civilian casualties are so low. I don't think police officers or traffic officers are launching rockets, why specifically target them?

I wouldn't include "firemen, medical staff, or any other civil officer." Those are your words and not mine. I specifically mentioned the police because they are armed and are working Hamas members. The firemen, medics, etc. I don't believe are armed, therefore should not be used in your argument... unless you know something different.

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