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Italian group claims to debunk Shroud of Turin

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Garlaschelli, a professor of chemistry at the University of Pavia, said in an interview with La Repubblica daily that his team used a linen woven with the same technique as the shroud and artificially aged by heating it in an oven and washing it with water.

But why would hoaxters of centuries past go through all that trouble to create a negative and not just dye the thing? It's not like the average person back then was sophisticated enough to tell the difference between an imprint and a subtle application of pigment. To say that they would do it using the means the Italian group claims would require the knowledge that someone would one day have the means to analyze the molecular structure of the shroud, they are attempting to disprove what they view as illogical with an arguement equally illogical.

Heck, I'm Catholic and I'm a little shakey on the authenticity of the shroud but if anything was going to convince me that it was a complete and utter hoax this wouldn't be it.

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I think that people back in the Middle Ages when the shroud was made would have a lot better idea than we do about what a cloth that had been wrapped around a body would look like. I was a bit surprised that this was still going on, since I the radiocarbon dating had conclusively proved it is a fake, but as the man says, those who believe will always believe.

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Heck, many believe that 5000 years ago Jesus rode on dinosaurs. Its in the bible apparently.

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From what rock did these revisionist crackpots crawl out from, using pseudoscience to spread hate. The life of Jesus is fully documented, there are mountains of evidence, you know the Romans documented everything. Imprison these pseudoscientist nuts...

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http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2009/09/02/2674237.htm?WT.mc_id=science_podcast_gmis http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2009/08/26/2667644.htm?WT.mc_id=science_podcast_gmis http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2009/08/19/2660784.htm?WT.mc_id=science_podcast_gmis

some very interesting scientific research into the shroud. I don't think that the scientist are doubting there was a Jesus..they are saying that there is a shroud.It is an artwork.It is not Jesus's burial shroud.This is pretty much the catholic Church's view anyway. These three articles should enlighten a few.

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... hasn't this already been done?

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Treading on thin ice this one. Italian, Catholic, Heresy, quick get the hammer!!!!

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Okay, now when will we be able to read the investigation into the authenticity of that melted cheese sandwich in New Mexico, upon which the face of Jesus appeared?

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Heh, my word doesn't faith breed cranks. I'm not saying believing in a higher power means you're a cank, but all the texts for various religions are simply texts witten buy other human beings, generally in the order of controlling othe, weaker minded, human beings.

Though how you're going to convince people who believe something on faith such as the Turin Shroud when there are still people who argue that the earth is flat I've no idea.

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Yawn...how much more evidence do we need that the shroud was a fake? People should just put this nonsense relic in the hoax box where it belongs.

@TheQuestion- While dying the cloth would have been less time consuming, dye was pretty expensive back then, so I'm guessing maybe it was just cheaper for the hoaxers to create it this way? Just a theory, but it makes sense to me.

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They didn't need scientists to tell them this wasn't true. They could have just called me......

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"There was that sushi roll that looked like jesus, but it most certainly wasn't him." Also his face was seen on a tree trunk in the Philippines, and various other places. All fake.

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So Religion is an invention of fraudsters?

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"So Religion is an invention of fraudsters?"

Well, since there isn't one iota of physical evidence that there is a god and I reject the idea of belief on faith grounds, then yeah....

....I'd say it's the biggest hoax known to man. And it's certainly caused the most violence.

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JT, you shoud stop using "claims" in headlines. It's editorializing.

Moderator: The usage is correct.

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The only thing you can be sure of, is that this shroud mumbo jumbo generates a lot of money for the Vatican.

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Church leaders and church scientific experts have deemed the shroud as authentic. Well that sure is good enough evidence for me.

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Scientists can prove what happened 700 years ago but they can't tell us what is going to happen tomorrow. Biology books are full of 'facts' of happenings 10 billion years ago but telling us that the Kobe earthquake was going to happen was is beyond scientists. Scientific method requires 100% certainty not inspired guesswork.

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Actually, meteorologists can tell you, with some latitude for error, what is going to happen tomorrow. And seismologists might not be able yet to forecast when earthquakes will occur, but the analysis of plate tectonics which has developed through scientific research gives a pretty good picture of where and why earthquakes happen. As for biology, I would like to know which books you are referring to, since the commonly accepted hypothesis, not "fact", is that life began about 3.5 billion years ago. So, when three different groups of scientists examine the evidence and seriously analyze the Turin Shroud, most sensible people would accept what they say until some better analysis comes along.

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The Shroud was judged to be a fraud in the 14th century by a Roman Catholic bishop, who stated that the shroud was painting. The image was not allowed to be displayed for over 40 years. For anyone interested in reading a little more about this, you should check out "Relics of the Christ" by Joe Nickell.

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Lucky for them it's the 21st Century a few hundred years ago they would have been burned at the stake for blasphemy.

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Yawn...how much more evidence do we need that the shroud was a fake? People should just put this nonsense relic in the hoax box where it belongs.

Most people, including the church, doubt that Jesus was wrapped in the shroud in question but it remains a beautiful piece of art whether or not it has any actual historical significance.

@TheQuestion- While dying the cloth would have been less time consuming, dye was pretty expensive back then, so I'm guessing maybe it was just cheaper for the hoaxers to create it this way? Just a theory, but it makes sense to me.

But that make up for the fact that they would have no idea how they're results would look, jeez it took the atheist group years to figure it out with the advantage of centuries of accumulated knowledge and technology. To think that a couple of dark age miscreants had the brains and the time to figure it out without the Church killing the guys for heresy is unrealistic at best. There are better theories on how the shroud was created out there that disprove its age that seem far more likely.

....I'd say it's the biggest hoax known to man. And it's certainly caused the most violence.

Huh, I always credited the human condition for most of the atrocities of the world. While religion may have been a means in some instances it is very rarely the ends, that can be attributed to men of great power and great cruelty. There are an infinate number of excuses to commit a crime, most are interchangeable and seem to change with the times.

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