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'Joe the Plumber' says he has no plumbing license

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Joe has no clue. He DOES need a license, even if he was working under a licensed person (in this case there is doubts as to whether the guy he works for even has a license), he requires an apprenticeship license. And so on.

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“If you believed Obama, I’d be receiving his tax cuts,” Wurzelbacher said. “But I don’t look at it that way. He’d still be hurting others.”

So... he believes Obama that he'd be getting his tax cut, but somehow he thinks that his own belief is not true because people making money in the bracket he someday hopes to will be charged extra. Hmmm...

“I just hope I’m not making too much of a fool of myself,” he added.

Says the man while posing for photos, leaning against his dodge durango. Not to worry, Joe... you're making an utter a$$ of yourself, and McCain has given you the kiss of death -- like choosing Palin and highlighting all her abuses of power, he's pointed out that you too are breaking the law (with no license) and you'll soon be penalized for it. No doubt though, being true to his abusive nature, McCain would publicly state that if you vote him for present he'll magically bestow you with a plumber's license in return. He's that desperate, after all.

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Obama can't even fool an unlicensed plumber.

Speaks volumes about a national media that has abdicated its duty of keeping the electorate well-informed.

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"Obama can't even fool an unlicensed plumber."

He's not a plumber if he's not licensed, bottom line. He's a plumber wannabe; much like many of the uneducated McCain supporters ("Obama is an Arab!"), he lives in some fairy-tale land where the rules don't seem to apply to him, and seem to think McCain can somehow keep it that way.

You're comment should read, "Unlicensed plumber can't even fool the American public", would be much more poignant and true.

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Smithinjapan.. considering that Obama is using his Im going to tax the rich statement and that statement includes anyone who makes over 250000 then Joe seems to have asked a very good question, all the other BS is just that BS.. Dont degrade a man because he doesnt like a candidate, dont belittle him because he doesnt like Obamas Policy...

Your attacks on Joe are no differnet then a guy yelling Obama is terrorist...

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Is AP News now sponsored by Dodge or something?

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I had my suspicions when "Joe the Plumber" didn't seem to appreciate the difference between gross and taxable income.

Yep, Joe doesn't appear to be either qualified to run or work in a plumbing business. His future might, however, lie in scamming the elderly. McCain bought his tale hook, line and sinker without any vetting. He introduced him to a national audience as someone whose pocket is being picked to "spread the wealth around" to the less industrious when, in reality, "Joe the Plumber" is a tax delinquent.

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There goes the plumbing vote. McCain is doomed.

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Nessie, It was the plumber's union which outed him:

Unlike some other states, Ohio does not have a formal statewide licensing system for plumbers. But the city of Toledo and other municipalities do, Mr. Joseph said, and Mr. Wurzelbacher has not met those requirements.

“All contractors are licensed, and he does not have a license, either as a contractor or a plumber,” the union official said, citing a search of government records. “I can’t find that he’s ever even applied for any kind of apprenticeship, and he has never belonged to local 189 in Columbus, which is what he claims on his Facebook page.”

According to public records, Mr. Wurzelbacher has been subject to two liens, each over $1,000, one of which — a personal tax lien — is still outstanding.

And his question to Mr. Obama about paying taxes? According to some tax analysts, if Mr. Wurzelbacher’s gross receipts from his business is $250,000 — and not his taxable income — then he would not have to pay higher taxes under Mr. Obama’s plan, and probably would be eligible for a tax cut.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/joe-in-the-spotlight/?hp

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joe the plum is like many here.

If you believe either McCain or Obama's plans are going to work without raising your taxes, you are fools. That 250k will be scraped as there is no possible way either of their plans are going to work with only taxing something like 6% of the US population.

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Keeping it classy, like 'liberals' always do, the little gremmies at Daily Kos have already published Joe's address and personal info.

That's gonna go over real well on Fox and Limbaugh.

Soak the little guy for doing productive work and terrorize him when he dares to point out that even he can detect creeping socialism.

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How dare he question the one!!!!!!!! Joe the plumber must be destroyed. Any threat to the Obama's corination must be assured. I'm so glad that the Media now sees fit to tell me all about Joe's personal life. Nice touch about the Dodge A.P. Get ready Joe to be treated the way the last threat was to Obama's corination by the liberal elite. Sarah Palin got the full treatment that your about to get. Real class toward an average working class American displayed by the Kos kids once again.

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nippon5: "Your attacks on Joe are no differnet then a guy yelling Obama is terrorist..."

You're off your rocker if you really think that, bud. Are you telling me that if I say some guy that teaches at a highschool without a teacher's license is unqualified, etc., then that's like calling someone a terrorist?

First: you CANNOT teach at a public school in the full teaching capacity without the proper licensing. That's law, and union regulations, for that matter. It's the same with plumbing laws where Joe the Plumber is -- and he is flaunting the law publicly, and saying he wants to get rich to boot! Calling him on his law-breaking is in no way akin to calling someone a terrorist.

In fact, if my attack on Joe is no better than calling Obama a terrorist, your criticism of my comment is no better than calling Obama a terrorist as well -- it's the same logic, save that in my case calling up Joe on his law-breaking is not in any way incorrect.

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sailwind: McCain chose to destroy Joe, not the liberal media, in much the same way as (and I noticed you took this from my original comment and tried to twist it) he has destroyed Palin's career. What's more, Joe is choosing quite readily to try and bathe in the limelight and bilk it for all it's worth. So, in effect, he is also biting himself in the arse, so to speak.

It's hilarious to listen to the likes of you talk about 'buying into the media' and then use the same crap like 'THE ONE' McCain destroyed himself with in his negative-only tactics. Grow up a little and try to formulate your own thoughts and arguments, and before you talk about how bias the media or people who like Obama are, don't forget that you fall into the same camp (minus liking Obama) when you buy into McCain's negative add campaigns, etc.

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"First: you CANNOT teach at a public school in the full teaching capacity without the proper licensing. That's law, and union regulations, for that matter. "

LOL. We have a Canadian explaining how things work in our country. Pray tell, smith, just how many American schools have you worked in?

"It's the same with plumbing laws where Joe the Plumber is --he is flaunting the law publicly, and saying he wants to get rich to boot!"

"Plumbing laws" in little ol' Ohio?

Man, how bad is smith's obsession with America?

Joe wants his right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Only a fool or an Obama supporter wouldn't.

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He's not a plumber if he's not licensed, bottom line. He's a plumber wannabe; much like many of the uneducated McCain supporters ("Obama is an Arab!"), he lives in some fairy-tale land where the rules don't seem to apply to him, and seem to think McCain can somehow keep it that way.

Smith my point was simple but I guess not simple enough...

When you deface a person to gain an advantage in a political arena you are no different then the guy yelling Obama is a terrorist...

The man didnt ask to be a part of the campaign he just asked a question allot of us want to know the answer to..

Just because he isnt licensed doesnt mean he isnt a plumber it just means hes not a licensed one in the area he lives... Or do you think a license makes a person what they know or does his ability make him what his is. In some states and areas of states they do not require the Plumbe rot have a license..... So is he a plumber there or not??

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So is he a plumber there or not??

He is a plumber, like it or not. He may be an illegal plumber by mundane county law. Who cares? I am surprised no one is crying about over-regulation in the good ole U.S.A., land of lip service to freedom. Lots of people breaking those crazy rules in America and are plenty good at their job. The fact that they can and are breaking the rules is one of the biggest evidences of real freedom in the States.

I like the fact that he refused to say who he will vote for. Got to give credit to a man who draws the line right where it belongs.

I am surprised people are complaining about an increase from 36 to 39 percent. 36 percent is already huge. Something tells me that there are too many loopholes and tax deductions if that sort of rate is being charged. I would rather government pull out the eraser to those deductions than tack more garbage on. I would also rather that government scale down so it does not need so much money, and also for the government to focus on keeping point-of-sale costs down rather than tax the excess of people who charged too much in the first place.

Yes, America needs a third, and maybe even a fourth and fifth party so I can vote for someone closer to my ideals. But of the two choices I have, I have to go Obama.

Something will probably be done about Joe now that he has been found out. Its too bad. At a time when Americans need to be talking more, they will receive a lesson that keeping one's mouth closed is safe, in the short run anyway. --Cirroc

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coulrophobic at 01:12 PM JST - 17th October

Actually SmithinJapan is right in you have to be licensed to be a full time PUBLIC school teacher in the US, You do not need to be licensed to be an aid, helper, or in private schools in the US unless the individual state requires it....

The original print of this article stated that Ohio doesnt require plumbers to be Licensed and also stated that his boss wasnt licensed either.... They have changed the article (AP) to say Joe isnt licensed and his boss isnt in the county they live in, but they dont mention the fact his boss is licensed in Toledo...

And comparing teaching to plumbing is like comparing getting shot in the foot and getting shot in the leg... One is way more important then the other, and in allot of states and areas in states you dont need to be licensed to do plumbing.......

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Wow cirroc

That was very well written and I agree with it...

The loopholes are much easier for a company making millions to use then a family business making 400k but they are there....

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Ohio requires a plumber to have a license.

http://www.contractors-license.org/oh/Ohio.html

http://www.com.state.oh.us/dic/OCILBPlumbing.htm

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Maybe Caveman Lawyer can have a look at http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4740 and clarify something for us.

Seems to me that Joe the Plumber, doing residential work, doesn't need a license unless he is also doing commercial work.

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gosh Good Donky

we already know that hence why we posted they removed the information from the article...

The original print of this article stated that Ohio doesnt require plumbers to be Licensed

but thank you anyways..

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What a dumb question to ask, given that he is not authorised to practice as a plumber anyway. Making $250K p.a. is unlikely to be a problem now...

That's gonna go over real well on Fox and Limbaugh.

coulrophobic - why should that worry the Obama campaign ? Only right wing blockheads watch that scaremongering channel and listen to Rush Limbaugh anyway

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this is what words mean

(D) “Tradesperson” means an individual employed by a contractor who engages in construction, improvement, renovation, repair, or maintenance of buildings or structures without assuming responsibility for the means, method, or manner of that construction, improvement, renovation, repair, or maintenance.

this refers to getting a license

3) Either have been a tradesperson in the type of licensed trade for which the application is filed for not less than five years immediately prior to the date the application is filed, be a currently registered engineer in this state with three years of business experience in the construction industry in the trade for which the engineer is applying to take an examination, or have other experience acceptable to the appropriate section of the board;

You might be on to something Coul.. if he has to do 5 years as a tradesman before he can apply for a plumbing licence then as long as he works for someone who is licenced he doesnt need one?

Hrmm

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McCain then used the incident to highlight his own economic plan, which would extend the tax cuts of President George W Bush and lower the tax rate on capital gains.

John McCain is either lying or deluding himself if he thinks that he can continue with the current level of spending and cut taxes at the same time. The sums simply don't add up. The only thing Obama's guilty of is not promising the impossible.

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Hrmm Frontandcentre said:

What a dumb question to ask, given that he is not authorised to practice as a plumber anyway. Making $250K p.a. is unlikely to be a problem now...

If this above parts of the license law in Ohio is correct I read it as he didnt need to be licensed since his boss was, he is only a tradesman...

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The only thing Obama's guilty of is not promising the impossible.

What???/ Obamas budget increases the national debt by 3.5trillion from its present position, how does that add up? this number includes his increased spending and his tax cuts...

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"Only right wing blockheads watch that scaremongering channel and listen to Rush Limbaugh anyway"

I catch Fox maybe fifteen or twenty times a year for about ten minutes or so. Also watch the odd segment that makes it onto YouTube.

Scaremongering? Dick Morris (engineered both Clinton victories)appears on Fox. I see Christopher Hitchens on there sometimes. Hillary Clinton has been known to go on Fox. Senator Obama even deigned to do an interview with Bill O'Reilly a short while ago.

But I prefer talk radio.

Limbaugh, like him or not, reaches a huge audience.

In fact, the two greatest communicators in America are probably Oprah and Limbaugh.

Different media of course but you need only compare the salaries they command. RL could not get the coin he does if advertisers didn't know exactly who his audience is.

I suspect a great many of them are like Joe the Plumber.

I'm right, as it turns out. And your caricature is wrong:

"The talk radio audience is largely male, relatively young and ideologically conservative, although not necessarily Republican. Talkers magazine put the party breakdown in 2007 at 23% Republican, 14% Democratic, and a majority, 58%, independent. Data from the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press found a more equal spread among regular listeners in 2006: 32% Republican, 35% Democratic and 30% independent."

http://www.stateofthenewsmedia.org/2008/narrative_radio_talk_radio.php? cat=6&media=10

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He may not be a plumber, but is he going to be laying pipe in the upcoming faux-Palin erotic feature?

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He may not be a plumber, but is he going to be laying pipe in the upcoming faux-Palin erotic feature?

Now that's just plumbing the depths, real gutter stuff.

You'd better pipe down with those sorts of jokes.

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Altria,

Nessie has a gift of commodic talent.

Telling him to pipe down was a little harsh. I hope that you don't continue and start clogging up this thread with any other further asides toward's Ness. I had to come clean and tell you this.

Moderator: Readers, please stay on topic.

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Nessie, It was the plumber's union which outed him:

Okay, Betz. What's your point? All I'm saying is it's much ado about very little. The pertinent points are that Obama's plan will reduce taxes for all but the very rich and that somehow McCain has managed to convince many people of the opposite -- specifically by lying about Obama's tax plan. (To McCainiacs: see Factcheck for verification of this).

Now, back to my hornpipe. Blow the man down, Willie, blow the man down...

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The bottom line: McCain's claim only works by using an overly broad definition of what counts as a "small business" - and even with that definition, fewer than 2% of business owners would be hit by Obama's proposed rate increase. For those who are affected, the increase would be levied only on a part of their earnings, not all of them.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/15/smallbusiness/small_biz_taxes_factcheck.smb/?postversion=2008101611

The McCain campaign notes that "56.8% of total small business income is earned by businesses in the top two rates, which Barack Obama has pledged to raise."

So fewer than 2% of business owners would be hit by Obama's proposed rate increase but 56.8 % of the capital will end up being taxed at a higher rate. John McCain, sir, that is what's called paying for a tax cut instead of devastating our budget like Bush did with his tax cuts for the wealthy.

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"fewer than 2% of business owners would be hit by Obama's proposed rate increase"

You'd have to be pretty dumb to believe that.

With the economy currently in the doldrums, we don't need to increase taxes on people providing jobs for people.
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I checked the link I posted and it did not work. This will if you remove the pound (#) signs and replace them with underscores (_).

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/15/smallbusiness/small#biz#taxes#factcheck.smb/

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sarge said:

You'd have to be pretty dumb to believe that.

Not dumb sarge. Just able to analyze the facts. Out of 34.7 million filers with business income on Schedules C, E or F (which is incidentally a way McCain squeezed the figures to include his high capital figure), 479,000 filers fall into the top two brackets, according to an analysis of projected 2009 filings by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. The other 34.3 million - or 98.6% - would be unaffected by Obama's proposed rate hike.

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goodDonkey: "Just able to analyze the facts"

The fact is, if Joe the Plumber succeeds in his plan to earn more than $250,000, his taxes will go up under Obama's plan. Analyze that.

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coulrophobic,

Sometimes the hardest people to fool are the ones who are working under false information. They may also be the hardest people to educate.

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Sarge,

Technically speaking if Obama's plan is put into effect before Joe succeeds in his plan to earn more than $250,000, Joe's taxes will not go up and dimes to donuts Joe will be so pleased with the income he's making he won't waste much time pining for the extra $30 of every $1000 he could have had if he'd only reached his goal more quickly.

But you're right to the extent that if Joe were already earning over $250K, he'd have every right to begrudge the government taking that $30 away from him and, say, giving it to some autistic kid. McCain wants to give money to the autistic kid without raising taxes. How's he going to do that? His answer is to use an ax and then a scalpel. (Given his anger management issues I don't want to be in the room.) What's another name for that? Spreading the poverty around.

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But Joe could have a small business that nets $1,000,000.00 with 3 other equal partners and his taxes would not raise one bit. That is pretty good. Don't misunderstand that statement. The small business could gross $5,000,000.00 and after expenses net one cool mill. The business would be paying no separate tax if they are an "S Corporation" or an LLC which they should be if they have:

* Must be an eligible entity (a domestic corporation, or a limited liability company). * Must have only one class of stock. * Must not have more than 100 shareholders. o Spouses are automatically treated as a single shareholder. Families, defined as individuals descended from a common ancestor, plus spouses and former spouses of either the common ancestor or anyone lineally descended from that person, are considered a single shareholder as long as any family member elects such treatment. * Shareholders must be U.S. citizens or residents, and must be physical entities (a person), so corporate shareholders and partnerships are to be excluded. However, certain tax-exempt corporations, notably 501(c)(3) corporations, are permitted to be shareholders. * Profits and losses must be allocated to shareholders proportionately to each one's interest in the business.

In fact they could have 100 equal investors and net $25 million, provided there was no other household income, and none of them would see an increase in taxes. Dang, that sounds good.

Bottom line sarge less than 2% of small business owners will see a tax increase.

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Sez - "spreading the poverty around"

That's what Obama's going to do if he's elected.

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goodDonkey - "less than 2% of small business owners will see a tax increase ( under Obama )"

So, you're saying that less than 2% of small businesses earn less than $250,000 a year? You can't be serious. We're not talking about individual income, we're talking about business income here.

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How dare he question the one!!!!!!!! Joe the plumber must be destroyed.

McCain was the one who brought Joe into the debates.

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"McCain was the one who brought Joe into the debates"

Yeah, and the Democrats are the ones trying to destroy him now.

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"McCain was the one who brought Joe into the debates."

Wake up.

Obama sought out Joe.

Puh-leeze don't tell us are going to blame this too on Karl Rove...

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sarge said:

So, you're saying that less than 2% of small businesses earn less than $250,000 a year? You can't be serious. We're not talking about individual income, we're talking about business income here.

I used an example of how a small business can earn 5 million dollars and net 1 million dollars. I said Joe had 3 equal investors along with himself; so the one million net would be divided by 4 to equal $250,00.00. They could not earn any other income because that would put them over the limit. I am using an example to put them right at the limit. From the IRS

Generally, an S corporation is exempt from federal income tax other than tax on certain capital gains and passive income. On their tax returns, the S corporation's shareholders include their share of the corporation's separately stated items of income, deduction, loss, and credit, and their share of nonseparately stated income or loss.

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=98263,00.html

I had already said:

The business would be paying no separate tax if they are an "S Corporation" or an LLC which they should be if they have...

but you would not believe me sarge. Again there are limitations that are stated in my previous comment. I mentioned earlier that this is referred to as "flow through" I have since come across information where they are also known as pass-through entities.

Many businesses are taxed as flow-through enterprises, which are not subject to the corporate income tax as are corporations taxed under subchapter C of the Internal Revenue Code (C corporations). Instead their shareholders or partners include their allocated share of profits in taxable income under the individual income tax. These include corporations organized under subchapter S of the Internal Revenue Code (S corporations), partnerships, and sole proprietorships.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/key-elements/business/flow-through.cfm

No one should be a partnership or proprietorship because you are at risk of losing more than you company's assets. A plaintiff can go after your personal assets as well. That is why you would be an LLC or an LLP. Limited Liability Corporation or Limited Liability Partnership (usually professional partnerships like doctors or lawyers). You can get the by-laws free on the internet, if you look around, to form an LLC, LLP or an S corporation.

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Joe Biden: "I don't have any Joe the Plumbers in my neighborhood that make $250,000 a year. The Joe the Plumbers in my neighborhood, the Joe the Cops in my neighborhood, the Joe the Grocery Store Owners in my neighborhood, they make, like 98% of the small businesses, less than $250,000 a year..."

In the first place, 98% of small businesses do not earn less than $250,000 a year, but more than that. Second, I doubt any plumbers or cops or grocery store owners live in Biden's neighborhood, as Biden's neighborhood is pretty darn ritzy! His 6,800 square foot colonial-style house on 4 lakefront acres is worth around $3 million.

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Sarge,

You have only to look at the current administration to find an administration that has been spreading the poverty around. As a percentage of the American population the poor have increased and so have the working poor. McCain wants to cut programs and this will spread the poverty even further.

It could happen that poverty will increase under Obama. But it will not happen simply because he wants to marginally increase the tax rate on the top 3% of income earners and reduce it on the bottom 97%. The greatest spread of poverty has occurred under Republican administrations since 1980. They have presided over an increase in the national debt from less that $1T to over $11T. They have spread American poverty into the future.

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coulrophobic,

In order for Obama to "seek out" Joe, he would have had to be looking for Joe. He wasn't. He was working a neighborhood as politicians have always done. Joe didn't have to participate.

It was McCain who thought he could capitalize on Obama's expression of "spread the wealth"--uttered once in his 5-minute exchange with Joe. McCain used that expression at least 9 times during the debate and the only way he got to use it was by referencing Joe and by continually re-referencing him. McCain chose to make Joe nationally famous.

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Sarge,

I don't think it's true that 98% of small business earn more than $250,000. That can't be what you meant to say. However, you don't provide any information to back up your claim so it's hard to know what you want to say.

I think it's probable that close to 98% of small business do earn less than $250,000 and that their taxes will not increase. Statistics, however, are difficult to find. I also think that it's probable that those businesses which earn over $250,000 account for most of the profits and that, therefore a majority of the profits will be subject to higher taxes. Why is that a problem?

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The Republicans have had a long love affair with 'plumbers.' It goes back to the days of Watergate. The Watergate scandal revealed the existence of a White House dirty tricks squad under the Presidency of the Republican President Richard Nixon (tricky Dicky), which was behind an orchestrated campaign of political sabotage, and a "plumbers" unit to plug political leaks and a secret campaign slush fund. It brought into the open the involvement of Attorney General John N. Mitchell in the dirty tricks, funds and cover-up, as well as key White House advisers, all of whom went to prison for these crimes, for sentences of one to four years. The scandals began with the arrest of five men for breaking and entering into the Democratic National Committee headquarters at the Watergate Office complex in Washington, D.C. on June 17, 1972. Investigations conducted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), and later by the Senate Watergate Committee, House Judiciary Committee and the press revealed that this burglary was one of many illegal activities authorized and carried out by Nixon's staff and loyalists. They also revealed the immense scope of crimes and abuses, which included campaign fraud, political espionage and sabotage, illegal break-ins, improper tax audits, illegal wiretapping on a massive scale, and a secret slush fund laundered in Mexico to pay those who conducted these operations.[1] This secret fund was also used as hush money to buy silence of the seven men who were indicted for the June 17 break-in.

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That was one strained analogy, buttamimi.

What does Watergate have to do with the very valid questions an American voter who happens to be a plumber raised about Senator Obama's tax plan?

This guy Joe is hated solely because it was to him Obama was speaking and trying to con when the mask fell off.

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'What does Watergate have to do with the very valid questions an American voter.'

I was just pointing out how low and dirty Republicans are prepared to go in using plumbers to help them cling onto power. The last time they used plumbers was during the Watergated brake-in. A REPUBLICAN president hd to resign in disgrace over it. And some Republicans were flung into jail over it. The republicans have a track record of dirty, illegal politics. Let's not forget that. From brake-ins to swiftboating, the Republicans have no equals.

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Republicans will probably use plumbers just about as much as democrats constantly use their parade of hapless victims they use to scare the populace with.

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No license? I'm not letting someone without a license clunk around in my throne room. (Would rather not fall through the floor Sunday morning while reading the papers.)

Under McCain, the top 1% that's fleecing the country right now will continue to fleece the country. The road to hell is paved with republicans, my friends.

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Sez - You're right - I didn't mean to say 98% of small businesses make over $250,000. I meant to say a heck of a lot more than 2% of small businesses make more than $250,000. If a business has even just half a dozen employees, it would need to earn that much just to make their payroll. This is just common sense.

And get this -

Obama: "How many plumbers do you know that make a quarter million dollars a year?"

How condescending can you get? Why, there's no way a lowly plumber or plumbing business can make $250,000 a year!

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Sarge,

He wasn't being condescending like RNC putting down community activists. People who actually try to better this country. He was making comments about a guy ("a plumber")who lied on TV to try and make Obama look bad. The media checked out his story and he was caught in all of his lies. Remember in another thread you told me this is the guy you want invite over for dinner. You still want him over? Is it because of the plumbing experience? Or the lying experience?

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Sarge,

I really think that Obama is talking about income after business expenses. I don't think employee salaries are part of that income. Neither would be the cost of pipe wrenches.

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Way to go, "Sam the Non-Plumber."

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Sez - Could be. Obama hasn't said exactly what he means. I suspect he doesn't really know.

jwills- Joe the Plumber didn't tell any lies, he just told Obama that he wanted to buy a plumbing business that would put him in Obama's tax increase. And Obama was indeed being condescending when he said, "How many plumbers do you know that make a quarter million dollars a year?" I can't stand the guy...

"Way to go, Sam the Non-Plumber"

He could fix your pipes if they broke. Could you?

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Besides rampant racism in the U.S., there's also a war in the U.S. on the intelligentsia is why some people don't like Obama. A lot of people won't vote for him because he's Black. If McCain becomes president he'll be caught in all his own lies. He's not going to do all the things he says he's going to do. It's just B.S. for the show. Obama is young. If he isn't elected president this year, he will be once McCain is ousted from office. If my pipes were broken, I'd call someone who has a plumbing license.

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Sarge,

Why would you expect that a relatively intelligent guy whose income was $4.2M last year wouldn't know what he was talking about? Why wouldn't you construe what he has said in the way that makes sense--as opposed to a way in which it does not make sense?

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Sarge,

I can and have fixed the pipes at my parents home. I have even replaced the toilet. And you?

The plumber did lie: 1) He is not plumber in the State he lives in. 2) He has admitted that his company makes nowwhere near $250,000. 3) He also admitted that he is not close at all to buying the company and Obamas tax wouldnt affect him.

How does Obamas plan stop him from buying the company again? He doesnt have the money and owes taxes. Obamas tax plan hasnt started yet and he is blaming him for his fantasy problems. How ignorant is that? The only truth was he wants to buy the company. Everything else was fantasy that was proven false. It was proven he owes back taxes and he would benefit from Obama`s plan.

Joe is little bus special.

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jwills - Joe the Plumber never said his company makes $250,000, he said he WANTS to have a company that makes $250,000. I guess having the American dream is a crime these days. Sheesh.

Hey, if you can fix pipes and replace toilets, can you come over to my place? My toilet's been acting up and I can't fix it!

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Sarge at 11:52 AM JST - 23rd October jwills - Joe the Plumber never said his company makes $250,000, he said he WANTS to have a company that makes $250,000. I guess having the American dream is a crime these days. Sheesh.

Sheeeeeesh Sarge, there you go making things up..... Have you seen the tape? Or are you just listening to the Right wing spin machine?

Well goood ole Joe the want to be plumber did in fact say he was going to buy a company that makes, wait let me let Joe tell it how it is....

Joe please will you help Sarge get the fact straight...

"I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes 250 to 280 thousand dollars a year," Wurzelbacher said. "Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?"

Hmmmmm Sarge if you need an Independent voters help here it is......The web site to which you can find what he said is.......

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032553/

A fair and balanced site....LOL

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JoeBigs - Your own post and quote from Joe the Plumber confirms that what I said is correct. Give credit where credit is due. Sheesh.

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Sarge I am a bit confused, didn`t you state the below

jwills - Joe the Plumber never said his company makes $250,000, he said he WANTS to have a company that makes $250,000. I guess having the American dream is a crime these days. Sheesh.

And Joe told Obama that he was about to buy a company that makes 250 270 280,000 per year.

I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes 250 to 280 thousand dollars a year

When in fact he never said he wanted to make 250,000 dollars a year. He said that the company he is about to buy MAKES 250,000+ per year.

Sarge I just want to make sure I did not make a mistake.....Did you tell jwills the first comment?

jwills - Joe the Plumber never said his company makes $250,000, he said he WANTS to have a company that makes $250,000. I guess having the American dream is a crime these days. Sheesh.

Or was I mistaken? If I am mistaken then and you did not make that comment then I apologize, but if I didnt make a mistake then sheesh. LOL

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