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John Paul II on brink of sainthood after miracle approved

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@ TheQuestion

I can't say I follow the Catholic way of doing things, but thank you for the informative reply. Very interesting.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I understand the concept, but why does a pope's intercessory prayer that results in someone getting healed put him on the path to sainthood, whereas the laypeoples prayers that result in a miraculous recovery aren't considered?

They can be considered for sainthood through the process of beautification, that's how you get local and regional saints. Canonization is different in that it allows the Saints name to be venerated in liturgy and used in public prayer throughout the Roman Rite.

And for intercession or miracle healing to be considered it has to be rapid enough to defy any available medical explanation. The Church usually spends several years doing interviews to check for consistency and for any available medical explanation for the recovery.

Surely he wasn't the only person who prayed for this woman? Is everyone who prayed for her up for sainthood too?

One of the requirements for sainthood is that they spent their lives emulating the example of the savior so most beautified or canonized saints are members of the Catholic clergy but an individual can become a saint outside of the clergy. A notable example would be Gianna Beretta Molla who had a uterine tumor which could not be removed without causing the death of the child. She gave live birth and had the tumor removed but died from complications from the surgery.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@ Tamarama.

Sure there are things in the Bible that cannot be explained by modern science, but that is the nature of miracles, is it not? If God is who he says he is (the Creator of the universe), then surely he can do whatever he pleases with his creations.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Give them points for consistency, please people.

And points for creativity and poise.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It's called intercession. The basic guiding principle is that everyone pray's for themselves but when someone prays on behalf of another it is considered an act of humility

I understand the concept, but why does a pope's intercessory prayer that results in someone getting healed put him on the path to sainthood, whereas the laypeoples prayers that result in a miraculous recovery aren't considered? Surely he wasn't the only person who prayed for this woman? Is everyone who prayed for her up for sainthood too?

God does not play favorites (Rom 2:11), so I don't know why the Church thinks the pope gets special treatment by God.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Tamarama:

But it's all true. It says so in the bible!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

This is the same crowd that bought you such whoppers as: Jesus Walked on Water, Jesus was Immaculately conceived, Jesus Cured the Lepers and the terminally ill, Jesus rose from the dead, Jesus fed hundreds with little more than crumbs, Jesus is the son of god, Moses parted the Red Sea etc, etc.

This modern rubbish is entirely in keeping with the fanciful myths of Christian Days past.

Give them points for consistency, please people.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Just another example of the antiquated workings of the Catholic Church. But as technology (read: the Internet) in poorer countries with large numbers of Catholics develops (read: the Philippines and most South American countries), they will steadily lose followers.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@realist 'The Roman Catholic Doctrines of 'Sainthood' are not found in the bible'. We could spend days discussing various sectarian Christian beliefs which are not found in the bible, not just sainthood in the RC Church. However, I would grant that the Catholic beliefs, along with the various Orthodox dogmas, tend to be the more entertaining and imaginative.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Thunderbird2, as per church doctrine lack of knowledge of the Church or lack of faith does not preclude salvation or grace. Basically if a Buddhist performs a miracle in a forest and there's no Catholics around to take credit for it it does, in fact, count. Can't become a saint in the modern context but it still counts.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Is it only Catholics who can perform miracles (before or after death), or can anyone do something miraculous? Just wondered... I mean suppose somewhere out in the wilds of, say, Mongolia a shepherd suddenly makes one of his sheep come back to life... is that a miracle? Or does it need to be a Catholic, preferably a nun?

I'm not trying to be offensive, as an Athiest I have no opinion, but I AM curious.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

May the commission act with diligence and discretion.

It's a fact. God didn't really care that much about this woman's ailment until the pope brought it to his attention and recommended that she be healed. In heaven, politics is every bit as important as here on earth. It's all about your connections to high ranking clergy with close ties to God.

It's called intercession. The basic guiding principle is that everyone pray's for themselves but when someone prays on behalf of another it is considered an act of humility. Tens of thousands get sick and die every day because we are imperfect and subject to injury, illness, fried candy bars, and all sorts of life shortening things, so it takes a lot of spiritual mojo, that being a technical term, to change things up even a little bit. And that's what we call a miracle.

The Church is just so relevant to the pressing issues of the day.

This is an article about an internal process of religious significance within an established religion. It's like criticizing the selection process for the next Dalai Lama. Alas, not every article can be relevant and interesting like which company is winning the console war and the most recent scandal of some interchangeable AKB48 member.

Why don't we hear about these miracles when they occur? Retroactive seems just a little too convenient.

For the same reason we don't hear about exorcisms, blessings, or long term opponents of the church asking for last rights, they are all matters involving internal church policies. Whenever a miracle that the Church is actually interested in occurs they take years to investigate the matter, otherwise you have delightful people pandering to some of our lovely posters that will dog the individuals involved in the miracle to their last dying breath.

For a bunch of people seemingly divested from all that goes on in the Church you spend a lot of time asking about up to date reports and independent verification of miracles. This isn't the IRS, stocks don't rise and fall based on the Vatican's exports of holy water so I always have to wonder why anybody outside of the church cares about the arcane process of canonization.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

According to the Bible, every Christian is a "saint." The Roman Catholic Doctrines of "sainthood" are not found in the Bible. Therefore, they have absolutely no basis for existence other than in the RC Church's man made doctrines. God, through His Holy Spirit, convicts men and women of their sin and they are redeemed by the bloodof Christ, according to the Bible. At that moment, the sinner beccomes a saint. There is no need for all this "sainthood" nonsense perpetrated by the Roman church. It is unbiblical.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

'The Congregation for the Causes of Saints'. I like these names. Can I call our union meeting a 'Congregation of the causes of underpaid plebs'?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

"He had already been credited with asking God to cure French nun Sister Marie Simon-Pierre Normand of Parkinson’s disease, which helped lead to his beatification in 2011, when he was declared a “blessed” of the Church. A second miracle is required in order for someone to be given full sainthood."

So asking God to cure people of diseases is a miracle?

plasticmonkey ( Jul 3, 8:36am ) - Har!

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Knock yourselves out, Saint Pope watchers.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Wow, after reading the comments here, I really can't for the life of me understand why mine was removed. It was mild compared to those I've read above. Any idea what the criteria are for removal? Just the mood of the mod?

8 ( +8 / -0 )

I'm a Christian. This kind of stuff makes me cringe.

Amen

5 ( +6 / -1 )

The issue they dont seem to be addressing or even mentioning is that the nun, Sister Marie Simon-Pierre Normand, only went into temporary remission and is in fact sick again.

Interesting that the second miracle mentions no details at all, simply a "Costa Rican woman". Completely unsearchabe, untraceable, unquestionable.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Why don't we hear about these miracles when they occur? Retroactive seems just a little too convenient.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

after miracle approved

It's 2013. Seriously.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@yabits - MVPs - Most Valuable Popes

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Could this be thought of as the Vatican's Hall of Fame?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

This article could have been written in 1320.... except the commentators heads would now be on a pike.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

What a tolerant bunch we are!

0 ( +3 / -3 )

This would be hilarious if it weren't for the fact that a large portion of the world's population lap it up.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Only 3? The bar has been set very very low for sainthood.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I'm a Christian. This kind of stuff makes me cringe.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

How can he be responsible for "miracles" when the second one happened 6 years after he died?!? Did he appear and point at the woman in Costa Rica, and say "Feci quod"?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Would condom factory explosions count?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

The Church is just so relevant to the pressing issues of the day.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

How about minus saint points for sex abuse coverups? Saint, hell no.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

decided the pope’s intercession was behind the healing of a woman from Costa Rica on May 1, 2011

It's a fact. God didn't really care that much about this woman's ailment until the pope brought it to his attention and recommended that she be healed. In heaven, politics is every bit as important as here on earth. It's all about your connections to high ranking clergy with close ties to God.

We know this is true. For years heaven has been bugged by the NSA, and this info has recently been leaked by Julian Assange.

16 ( +21 / -5 )

Just more unproven nonsense.

12 ( +18 / -6 )

@fizzbit "the Polish-born pontiff..."

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Why do the French get all the miracles?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

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