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Sturgeon: Scotland independence vote matter of when, not if

22 Comments
By SYLVIA HUI

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22 Comments
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Are the SNP aware of how much of the tax revenue spent in Scotland is actually raised north of the border?

English tax payers will be happy to see them go.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

I have never really understood this Scottish independence issue. Scotland always has been an independent country, with it's own laws, legal system, education curriculum , tax etc.

The last referendum posed the question "Should Scotland be an independent country". Scotland always has been.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

The ''UK'' is on the verge of collapsing. It's quite exciting to see change. Scotland is an amazing place and is richer than England.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

If Brexit breaks it, then BoJo will own it. Be careful wot you wish for, folks (the little Englanders).

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Scotland is an amazing place..

Yes, it is

...and is richer than England.

How are you measuring that?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Are the SNP aware of how much of the tax revenue spent in Scotland is actually raised north of the border?

Do you have a link for that?

Or is it have your cake and eat it English exceptionalism?

"Should Scotland be an independent country". Scotland always has been.

Nonsense. It has no say on the following:

the Crown

the Constitution of the United Kingdom

the UK Parliament

registration and funding of political parties

the making of peace or war

international relations and, treaties

international development

international trade

the Civil Service of the United Kingdom

defence

treason

Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish devolution basically created three overinflated county councils, and little else. The resulting democratic deficit in Westminster means that Scotland, which voted 62% Remain in the Brexit vote, is no longer in the EU.

Devolved powers are being squeezed by Boris Johnson who, despite Scotland now having 72 pro-independence MSPs versus 57 (nominally) unionist MSPs, still refuses to allow an IndyRef for which there's a robust legal precedent.

We've seen here on JT England being conflated with Britain, and thus it is with Tory hegemony. With diminished support in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, they still insist on ruling the roost, using the English media and voters as their enforcers. Not democratic and certainly not sustainable.

11 ( +16 / -5 )

Scotland costs the rest of the UK (well, southern England if we are going to be honest) 15 billion pounds a year. And that's if the North sea oil revenue is considered Scottish.

Call their bluff..Calls for independence are just a ploy to get more cash out of Westminster.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

Scotland has more wealth per capita compared to England. That helps due to Scotland's smaller population of course. Also Scotland has way more natural resources, more renewable energy, more public spending, more pay increases, for public sectors, for example the NHS in Scotland now get a 4% pay rise compared to England's only 1%. Not to mention the Scottish government also gives free Education to it's citizens. When Scotland becomes independent, It will have more money to invest in public spending. England will crumble without Scotland and you know it. The Tories only care about London, that's all. Do your own research and see for yourself.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Hey Boris, how's that taking back control of the borders going? Seems like the Scots want that, too. Who would've thought...

BoJo's Brexit failure is the gift that just keeps on giving.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Go Scotland! I'm with you guys in your battle for independence and freedom, my Scotch-Irish ancestors helped kick the English out of America in 1776 and I'll lend a hand too if you need it.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

When asked for a link someone instead gives us exceedingly good fakes.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

So leave one union to join another bigger union?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

If the English had a vote, Scotland would not be part of the Union.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

"Should Scotland be an independent country". Scotland always has been.

Nonsense. It has no say on the following:

the Crown

the Constitution of the United Kingdom

the UK Parliament

registration and funding of political parties

the making of peace or war

international relations and, treaties

international development

international trade

the Civil Service of the United Kingdom

defence

treason

Scottish MP's sit at Westminster. They have a democratic say to all of the above.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

There is no UK Constitution. Scottish MP's sit in the London parliament and the House of Lords.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Scotland costs the rest of the UK (well, southern England if we are going to be honest) 15 billion pounds a year. 

I'm not sure that's a useful argument. If true, presumably the north of England also costs the south of England (or perhaps the south east would be more accurate). So why doesn't the south east seek independence? Is it out of altruism or because the north is a source of cheap labour and supplies that can be exploited when needed and dropped when not?

Knowing that you're not paying your way and also that you are not realising your potential are probably strong incentives for achieving independence. For some anyway - how many may be found out in the next referendum.

I'm a supporter of an independent Scotland. But, like most in Scotland I think, I'm not a flag waving nationalist nutter. I'm just thinking about what would bring about the best potential and future opportunities. Being able to deal with Ireland , Norway, Denmark and other nearby countries on our own terms doesn't sound too bad.

On the other hand, if the UK capital was switched from London to say Newcastle or Runcorn, I might reconsider things.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Scottish MP's sit at Westminster. They have a democratic say to all of the above

How many Scottish, Welsh or NI MPs vs English MPs, and how many English MPs remain in the chamber for Scottish, Welsh or NI Questions?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Albaleo...

Scotland costs the rest of the UK (well, southern England if we are going to be honest) 15 billion pounds a year. 

I'm not sure that's a useful argument. If true, presumably the north of England also costs the south of England (or perhaps the south east would be more accurate). So why doesn't the south east seek independence? Is it out of altruism or because the north is a source of cheap labour and supplies that can be exploited when needed and dropped when not?

This is true, the SE to a large degree funds the rest of the country. Wales and the north are also huge drags on the economy. Many countries have similar situations. Japan north of Gunma and south of Kobe.

Mickelicious........

When asked for a link someone instead gives us exceedingly good fakes.

Good one! To be fair, the Scots make an excellent shortbread and those Tunnocks caramel bars are pretty good too.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

There is no legal issue with the Scottish government supporting a crowd-funded opinion poll on independence.

The % in favour is less than Catalonia, but the EU will always join with Madrid to crush this sort of thing in Spain. No such problems for Scotland any more.

North Sea Oil would be largely in Scottish waters, rather than English.

Scotland has the basic elements of its own currency, issuing Scottish pound notes. These could remain tracked to sterling or could track the Euro or USD.

In the next few years they need to prepare the infrastructure for independence. Building border post-style 'tourist information centres', for example. Better to do this in advance of it all happening rather than go with a Boris bodge.

Small nations gaining independence usually have some degree of optimism and sense of purpose. This would be helped by the Scots' strong cultural identity, largely based on a dislike of the English.

UK companies need to start organising satellite HQs north of the border that can operate as a Scottish base post-independence. As Brexit hits home, an increasingly independent Scotland would be a good place for the English to escape to, taking their skills with them to boost the economy. It would also be the first choice for English companies needing to relocate back into the EU, as soon as Scotland rejoined.

They can look at how this sort of thing was bungled in Ireland (paramilitary violence) and the UK (Brexit - break everything and then try to rebuild bits of it on the fly) and do things differently. Brexit came with a raft of isolating restrictions on importing and exporting goods and the free movement of people. Even before rejoining the EU, an independent Scotland would obtain a huge boost simply by removing these.

Physically, Scotland is quite similar New Zealand, but doesn't suffer from quakes. It is in something of a sweet spot, being too far north to cook as climate changes warms the summers, and too far south to suffer from soggy tundra issues like Russia and Canada. It has strong winds (for wind and wave energy), enough rain to avoid droughts, lots of farmland and a decent amount of wilderness.

They will need to expand a financial centre and a tech development hub, and get all their services on to .sco/t sites, but if you wanted to create a new nation, Scotland would be a good option.

If the next virus is midge-borne, they may be stuffed. Aside from that, with the legal precedents of ex-British colonies becoming independent, there shouldn't be any problems.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Scottish MP's sit at Westminster. They have a democratic say to all of the above

Only in the context of representing part of a larger nation, the UK. Scotland is not independent of Westminster and hasn't been for centuries. Scotland's laws can be over ruled by UK courts and the UK parliament. Scotland does not have an independent foreign policy or trade policy. Those are determined by Westminster. So you understand the difference?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I understand the Scottish position and am not hostile to it but I wonder if the independence effort might end in futility? The UKs only big shipyards and their entire nuclear weapons establishment are in Scotland. The only drydock that can handle the two new Queen Mary class aircraft carriers are at the BAE yards on the River Clyde. BAE has stated publicly that they will close these shipyards if Scotland votes in favor of independence. That would also probably end Royal Navy's two new frigate programs (Babcock also has its yard in Scotland at Rosythe) and leave the Royal Navy without facilities to service their most important warships and maintain their nuclear deterrence. With those things in mind I suspect the UK will not allow Scotland to leave the union. The Scots need to address these problems directly to the satisfaction of the rest of the UK if they want their independence. It may be that Scotland must at least partially finance the relocation of these facilities to England as a condition of independence.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

leave the Royal Navy without facilities

"You've sunk my battleship!"

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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