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Kennedy remembered for 'dream he kept alive'

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And that's all it was: A dream. An empty dream of empty promises sold to voters using ideals he never intended to live up to.

Public schools for your kids, private schools for his.

Environmentalism in your backyard, but not in his sailing waters.

Higher taxes on bonus and inheritances, but he kept loopholes for his and his family's tax-sheltered wealth.

Tough on Big Oil, but loopholes for the segment the Kennedy family was invested in.

If he were only a hypocrite, he wouldn't stand out that much from other politicans. But Teddy Kennedy was more than that. He was a fraud. That a lot of people were suckered by him only makes him a successful fraud, not less of one.

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Kennedy remembered for 'dream he kept alive'

Too bad he couldn't have reached across the seat of his Oldsmobile and kept Mary Jo Kopechne alive.

Moderator: Please do not be so obsessed about this incident. You have brought it up numerous times this past week when once would be enough.

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And yet WhiteHawk he was respected on both sides. I guess American politics is just plain dirty ... can't really imagine Ted Kennedy being so self-serving and no one among his peers raising much of a fuss (Kennedy haters not included since they even condemn the air he breathed). You'd think he broke some law to be able to do all those things you allege.

Finally, did you write that yourself or did you just cut & paste someone else's idea?

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RRII, your compassion for Mary Jo is deeply touching. Perhaps you could show some respect for the family and fellow politicians who mourn him, including GW Bush, in attendance at the funeral.

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Not one of the Kennedy-haters on here gives one damn about the woman aside from political fodder, and it's quite sad. I'd like to see them all come together and form some sort of foundation for the woman -- since they so care about her and all.

Anyway, while they're busy hating the rest of their country is in mourning over the man, including their hero GWB.

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Democrats should focus on what's best for our country: getting the Massachusetts senate seat filled by Joseph Kennedy II, or Patrick Kennedy, or Edward Kennedy Jr., or Kennedy's wife, Vicki, or even Carolyn Kennedy.

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buddha4brains:

Finally, did you write that yourself or did you just cut [and] paste someone else's idea?

Naturally, you try to insult me instead of trying to prove my points wrong. I wrote that myself, and have been writing it on almost every Teddy thread on JT. That's okay, you don't have to tell me why you doubted my originality. You've made it plenty clear in the past what you think of right-wing conservatives.

I said "naturally" because, just like every other time I've written it, I've become the target of the Kennedy-defenders instead of my points. Either I get insulted, or the Defenders of the Camelot Myth abandon the thread and wait for the next day's JT thread on Teddy. The Defenders have yet to take the option of debating my points... because they can't. They know I'm right. Most of them knew Kennedy was a fraud when he was alive, too, but never cared because the agenda comes first with the Moral Relativity crowd. So, since they can't make any case about him not being a fraud, it's pile on WhiteHawk.

That's okay, I can take it. ;)

PS: When I do quote someone, as I quoted Mark Steyn in another recent Teddy thread, I always make it clear that I'm quoting and note the source.

plasticmonkey:

Perhaps you could show some respect for the family and fellow politicians who mourn him, including GW Bush, in attendance at the funeral.

I haven't watched the cannonization of "Saint Teddy the Lion". Has the Kopechne family been there to pay their respects?

smithinjapan:

I'd like to see them all come together and form some sort of foundation for the woman -- since they so care about her and all.

Shouldn't that have been Teddy's job? Instead of telling Chappaquiddick jokes? Or maybe you just want to follow the pattern of everybody else always having to clean up after Teddy.

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Ted Kennedy was a complex figure and yes some conservatives liked the man.His death highlights these things.GW Bush was in attendance,but Bush sr wasn't. Obama gave the eulogy,but people don't talk about Bill Ayers dedicating one of his books to Sirhan Sirhan,the man who shot Teddy's brother,Robert Kennedy.

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WhiteHawk -- Must be wonderful to be so self-rightous, and know that unlike Ted Kennedy, you yourself, and the folks you support, have no human failings or have ever fallen short of your "dreams". ( I guess "Mission Accomplished" was just an aberration, right?) However, since you want folks to "prove your points wrong", I will do just that. Fact is Kennedy had no "sailing waters". In fact, a members of my family have sailed many times in races and regattas around the Cape and the Islands that Kennedy participated in, and have pictures of him and his sail boat in the waters of Hyannis. Please stop showing your ideology-fed ignorence. Kennedy was wealthy, no doubt, but, more than any of your heroes, he was a man of the people.

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Not self-righteous, just right. As in correct.

A quick google of "kennedy blocks wind farm" brought up articles on the very first page from both UPI and -gasp- The Boston Globe.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2006/04/30/Kennedy-tries-to-block-Cape-Cod-wind-farm/UPI-49571146434349/

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/04/27/kennedy_faces_fight_on_cape_wind/

Wow, that was easy. Ready for more? Or do you want to waste some time trying to claim that those sources are members of the far-right-attack-machine/blogosphere? I mean, if you're going to waste time trying to insult me, you might as well...

Of course I've got failings. Never claimed I didn't. But neither have I left anybody for dead, or ran for office on ideals I had no intention of adhering to myself. So put aside your deflection-clothed strawman and get back to debating my points. If you can.

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As for liberals like myself, Edward Kennedy will be missed. I respected his efforts and accomplishments.

God Bless the Kennedy Family. < :-)

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Looks like a lot of the comments deal with the hypocritical life Ted led eh? And he is noted as the voice, the lion of the dem party.

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“The Mass of Christian burial weaves together memory and hope” Nothing is impossible for God but he must be struggling with Ted. Was he a voice for the most vunerable, the most innocent of human beings? Anything but. The Catholic Church is a strange place sometimes. He should have been excommunicated but he's given a full Catholic burial?

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smithinjapan

not one of the Kennedy-haters on here gives one damn about the woman aside from political fodder,

Actually, it's those who wax poetic about Kennedy and make excuses for the incident that show the greatest disrespect for Kopechne.

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Smith democrats are going to use his death to further their health care bill which was a prediction a while ago. Now talking about his "drams" in meaning legislation I wonder how long he would have lived if he had to use the same healthcare he would force on all the rest of Americans?

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I think I'll let this person express how I feel about Senator Kennedy's passing.

"I would like to extend our sympathies to the Kennedy family as we hear word about the passing of Senator Ted Kennedy. He believed in our country and fought passionately for his convictions."

Sarah Palin

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One small step for man...one giant leap for mankind...

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Obama called him "the soul of the democratic party". For once I agree with Obambi 100%

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Thats now what Obama said about Kennedy when he was a state senator... lol

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Obama called him "the soul of the democratic party". For once I agree with Obambi 100%

C'mon. Everyone knows Democrats have no souls.

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Taking responsibility for ones actions is what matters. Ted took no responsibility for his actions, he only thought of himself because that is what mattered.

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RR2

Ted took no responsibility for his actions, he only thought of himself because that is what mattered.

But of course it was for the greater good. I mean he's a Kennedy; his future in politics had to be saved at any cost for the good of the country... : )

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Teddy Kennedy ... remembered for the 'dream he kept alive' ... and given a pass for the woman he left to die in his submerged car ...

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But of course it was for the greater good. I mean he's a Kennedy; his future in politics had to be saved at any cost for the good of the country... : )

I hope you were being facetious.

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JenniferKim

Oh for sure. Facetious, sarcastic, cynical, take your pick...

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USNinJ2: You forgot to include truthful to your list of choices. If he had been a non-Kennedy, he'd been just another ex-convict who died.

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WhiteHawk you got to be kidding.

The wind farm story is all about Kennedy working with Ted Stevens and other Republicans to halt construction. And you wonder why no one bothers to prove you wrong. What are you right about? That Ted Kennedy passed laws with Republicans? Perhaps that is why so many Republican leaders attended his funeral. Even GW Bush, whom I not a fan of, attended - hated his politics and policies, but I can respect his civility.

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Senator Edward Kennedy was a rock star with-in the congress, like Elvis Presley was in rock/roll. He was there to help the downtrodden and those seeking help and hope from their country.

Yeah, there is a lot of mud slinging from those who hate helping those less fortunate, but Teddy Kennedy looked forward to helping those. He valued all people, not just those with...

For those who like throwing stones, but there were no finer men then Ted Kennedy. He was a pillar of public service and passionate about life. < :-)

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buddha4brains: "WhiteHawk you got to be kidding."

Don't expect WhiteHawk to acknowledge his being incorrect in favour of simply pretending he's right and doing exactly what he claimed others do -- simply wait for the next Kennedy post and stop on this one. I mean, the guy actually said what he wrote was 'original' and yet in the same sentence said it's the 'same thing' he posts every thread. I realize he meant original as in his own, but unoriginal in thought is just that.

sailwind: Wow... never thought I'd say good for Palin, but there you go. It must be heart-breaking to read for those who continue to come on here and pretend to care one wit about Mary-Joe while using her as a pawn to drag Kennedy through the mud; I mean, Palin salutes him, GWB attends the funeral.... all their heroes have betrayed them!

Helter: "Actually, it's those who wax poetic about Kennedy and make excuses for the incident that show the greatest disrespect for Kopechne."

Actually, no, as I said, it's the people who didn't even know her name until Kennedy was dead (or got sick), and don't actually care for her one bit. What's more, people haven't been making excuses for the incident one bit, they've simply been pointing out the fact that what Kennedy did, leaving the scene, is not homicide. Plenty of the same people did not at all DEFEND or make excuses for him, and in most cases pointed out how wrong it was for Kennedy to leave the scene, drink so much, etc. But hey, reading the posts instead of simply reading INTO them what you desire was never your strong point.

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As much as I admire the man we can't lose sight of the possibility that maybe one reason bush showed up at his funeral is because Kennedy,in '02,showed support for the neo-con plan for regime change in Iraq.HIs exact words at the time? “There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein’s regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed.”

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“There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein’s regime is a serious danger, that he is a tyrant, and that his pursuit of lethal weapons of mass destruction cannot be tolerated. He must be disarmed.”

Again, someone, this time Edward Kennedy, believed the lies fed to him by the bush administration about weapons of mass destruction. Ted Kennedy I'm sure was devistated when he found out that the country's leaders fed lies and treated the people with total disrespect. He later understood and wanted our troops home. < :-)

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I wonder what Mary Jo Kopechne would think about all these glowing eulogies. Did she get anything like that?

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WilliB: "I wonder what Mary Jo Kopechne would think about all these glowing eulogies. Did she get anything like that?"

You can join the small but entrenched (heads firmly in the sand) group of posters who didn't give a wit about her until a few days ago and be the Mary-Jo eulogy writer yourself. Never too late, even though you probably just learned her name. Hell, you can frame it and put it on the wall on the new building you guys should make in her honour... you know, since you care so much.

seijichuudo: A whole lot of people agreed with the plan to illegally invade Iraq, which shouldn't be a surprise given what they were told. It's disappointing that he agreed to it, but he was duped like so many others.

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Please,people. Ted Kennedy was in the Senate for 5 decades.Do ya really believe the rookie arrival from the state of Texas pulled the wool over HIS eyes on a subject as simple as Iraq?

Liberal Lion?Yes.

Saint?No.

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I wonder what Mary Jo Kopechne would think about all these glowing eulogies. Did she get anything like that?

Checking...checking....

Nope, there is no record of a Mary Jo Kopechne serving as a 5-term senator.

The conservative talk-show host John McLaughlin today told his audience about a special show being planned to ackowledge the "extraordinary accomplishments" of Senator Ted Kennedy. The blind, the deaf, and (especially) the dumb remain clueless.

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I won't criticize the man on the day he is being buried.....but I will say that I 100% disagreed with him, and think he and his elder brothers were diametrically opposite....

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Midnightpromise actually he was charge with something. How do I know? I stopped to read a newspaper which described the incident. It is not hard to find, try the NY Times.

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Bill Maher can say nasty things about Jerry Falwell upon his death, but when conservatives say anything derogatory about Teddy, they are called vile and heinous. By the way, Teddy did plead guilty to leaving the scene of an accident -- which would have been like Lee Harvey Oswald pleading guilty to disharging a gun in a public place...

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hworta269:

Smith democrats are going to use his death to further their health care bill which was a prediction a while ago. Now talking about his "drams" in meaning legislation I wonder how long he would have lived if he had to use the same healthcare he would force on all the rest of Americans?

But that's Teddy was all about: Passing laws for everybody else to live under.

buddha4brains:

The wind farm story is all about Kennedy working with Ted Stevens and other Republicans to halt construction.

...of a wind farm. In Cape Cod.

That was the intention of the article, yes. But the story-within-the-story was that Kennedy's environmentalism ideals only applied to other people's backyards. When it came to spoiling his (or his friends, family and neighbors) view, he was just as NIMBY as all the other "limousine liberals".

smithinjapan:

Don't expect WhiteHawk to acknowledge his being incorrect in favour of simply pretending he's right and doing exactly what he claimed others do -- simply wait for the next Kennedy post and stop on this one. I mean, the guy actually said what he wrote was 'original' and yet in the same sentence said it's the 'same thing' he posts every thread. I realize he meant original as in his own, but unoriginal in thought is just that.

Yes, original as in "my own". buddha4brains' question addressed whether I was copying someone else's idea. The fact that I've had to repeat my points in thread after thread (and getting personal insults instead of intelligent debate as already noted) says much more about the defensiveness and ignorance of Kennedy's fans than it does about any supposed lack of creativity on my part.

If someone had debated me and proven me wrong the first time, I would've dropped it then. Unlike so many of JT's left-wing posters who lose a debate on one thread, then continue repeating their original - and defeated - talking points on every subsequent thread addressing the issue.

So... back to the debate? There are more points left to cover.

adaydream:

For those who like throwing stones, but there were no finer men then Ted Kennedy. He was a pillar of public service and passionate about life. < :-)

If he genuinely cared about life and "those less fortunate", he would have given his own life to save a drowning woman, no? I mean, that's what heroes do. They put others before themselves and risk or even give their lives to save them. But when given the opportunity, he wouldn't even give up his political career.

No, Teddy was just another condescending "limousine liberal". A wealthy (by inheritance), stubborn, powerful, politically-connected one, to be sure, but that does not make him a "fine man". He might be a saint to you, Alan, but he's only a Patron Saint of Fortunate Relations. In other words, he was nothing without everybody else.

yabits:

Nope, there is no record of a Mary Jo Kopechne serving as a 5-term senator.

You say that like being a 5-term senator means anything.

Tatanka:

Bill Maher can say nasty things about Jerry Falwell upon his death, but when conservatives say anything derogatory about Teddy, they are called vile and heinous.

They don't even have to say anything deragatory. All they have to do is remind Kennedy's fans of the facts about his life. Which are, um, derogatory in context. Ah well. Teddy lived his life as he wanted, it wasn't directed by his detractors on JT.

By the way, Teddy did plead guilty to leaving the scene of an accident -- which would have been like Lee Harvey Oswald pleading guilty to disharging a gun in a public place...

Well, let's be fair about this. ;) Oswald didn't have a rich-and-connected Daddy Joe to write his plea deal for him.

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but I will say that I 100% disagreed with him, and think he and his elder brothers were diametrically opposite....

Anyone who thinks that Ted Kennedy was "diametrically" opposite to the political philosphy of his own brothers is simply not thinking.

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but when conservatives say anything derogatory about Teddy, they are called vile and heinous.

Actually, there are a lot of conservatives who don't have to open their mouths to demonstrate their vileness -- but it sure does help.

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Oswald didn't have a rich-and-connected Daddy Joe to write his plea deal for him.

Joseph Kennedy, having suffered a debilitating stroke in 1961, was barely able to coprehend what was going on in the last year of his life, much less go around writing plea deals.

Of course, don't let facts like that stop you from posting your hate-filled nonsense.

Moderator: Readers, please stay on topic and keep the discussion civil.

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You say that like being a 5-term senator means anything.

LOL. It's something more than trying to claim that being a 7-term senator means nothing. That's over 46 years of keeping the dream alive.

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Have we reached a point where we can call it Kennedy Derangement Syndrome yet?

Taka

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Have we reached a point where we can call it Kennedy Derangement Syndrome yet?

It's a great question. As the song asks, "How long has this been going on?"

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We can call it Kennedy Derangement Syndrome, but it doesn't reflect too well on our side, since the term kinda started with reactions to bush.The neo-con Charles Krauthammer made it part of the lexicon of US politics.

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yabits:

Joseph Kennedy, having suffered a debilitating stroke in 1961, was barely able to coprehend what was going on in the last year of his life, much less go around writing plea deals.

Oh, you're just sore I caught you contradicting yourself on Kennedy's drinking that fateful night. ;)

The Kennedy family held great influence in Massachussetts, and there's no reasonable way you can deny it.

Getting into Harvard, getting his Army enlistment reduced by half and a posh assignment away from the Korean War, having his brother's senate seat reserved until he was old enough to run for it, riding the popularity of his brothers into office, getting a ceremonial slap on the wrist for causing the death of someone, trading on the myth of the Kennedy "Camelot" to secure his office even to his dying breath...

It is not "derangement" to point out these facts about Teddy Kennedy's life. It is derangement to obsessively ignore those facts and attack those who voice them, in an attempt to portray Teddy Kennedy as anything more decent than the drunken, womanizing, fortunate benefactor of a political empire based on a bootlegger's fortunes.

Since my original points about Teddy being a fraud have not been challenged - much less proven wrong - then I will continue to stand by them and repeat whenever I want. If any Kennedy fans don't like it, well, you've have ample opportunity to spend your energy trying to prove me wrong and instead you wasted it attacking me.

As I've said before, I won't dance on Teddy's grave, but I won't forgive him either. If you want to call me vile or hateful or whatever, go ahead. I honestly could not care less what anyone here thinks of me. In the end, you're only lying to yourselves. If there's any hate on these Kennedy threads, it's the Kennedy fans hating me for refusing to bury the truth along with Teddy.

Edward "Teddy" Kennedy is dead, the truth about him is not.

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