China says it got denuclearization pledge from N Korean leader Kim during Beijing visit

Interesting.... now we can speculate. Put yourself in both of their shoes. First... what does Kim Jong Un need, want, or need to have approved? I guess first off would be that if N. Korea does give up Nuclear Weapons, which I doubt they will, but if they agree to do so. They would want Nuclear protection via an agreement with China, that if threatened or attacked, China would consider it an act of War against them too. If the do not give up their Nukes, but agree to Inspections by other countries and downgrade their missile capability to deliver Nukes. They would have to see how that flies with China. By doing so they would probably look at a possible reunification with the south... but that would probably happen in baby steps.

China probably does not want a full reunification anytime soon because they do not want a country on their border which is fully backed by the USA. So therefore, if any reunification happens they might require S. Korea to pull all U.S. Military Assets out of the South. I just do not see China agreeing to anything less than that.

It will be interesting to find out what was discussed.

As long as it takes the wind out of the sails of warmongers then that's a great day

I'm guessing KJU just won a bit of a respite from the UN sanctions that China has until now been enforcing well. What they gave in return is anyone's guess, but possibly involving forced labour.

This will allow KJU to enter the supposedly upcoming summit in a position of strength as the sanctions will not be as heavy as before when he agreed to the summit.

This may mean they will aim to retain their nukes but maybe give up their long range ICBMs, which Trump may be gullible enough to accept. That would be a win for NK and America, but a major win for China, so I would say this is the likeliest outcome of that suspiciously secret meeting in Beijing.

Xi didn't even need to announce he'd want to meet with Kim, they just did it. No talk, more action.

Next on the table the closure of concentration camps in both countries and the stoppage of punishing families for one member doing wrong.

Xi didn't even need to announce he'd want to meet with Kim, they just did it. No talk, more action. yep see China has far more clout in getting things done in Asia, how are those Chinese tariffs coming along Trump, do you still want Chinas help or not!?

With Bolton in control of the White House now, war with NK and Iran will begin. china and Russia should be very close. Japan should stay away.

Thank you, President Trump!

I can't see how reunification of the Koreas can happen under current circumstances.

Kim Jong Un had his older half-brother killed, as well as other relatives. He clearly wants to retain some kind of power and status. 

So realistically there is no way to reunite the Koreas, to the extent that the Kim dynasty exists. 

You might be able to convert Kim into a kind of ceremonial role, like the Emperor in Japan, but then I still don't see how you could have a democracy in North Korea. The Chinese want a stable North Korea, and obviously couldn't give a hoot about western notions of democracy.

Sorry Koreans, but I think you guys are going to be separated until a collapse of the Chinese communist party regime, at least.

loving the look of KJU there on the side - putting on a happy facade - but a bit nervous and squeamish at meeting xi the eternal dictator, while also sensing a touch of envy at the great power and position xi has

That China has been furious with NK over its nuclear program is no secret. When Obama mentioned that economic sanctions were of little use against the North, he was correct except for China, without which NK would not long survived. Kim seems to have accepted this. Zichi, I do not find this small at all - it is huge. Three points:

"China would uphold its friendship with its isolated neighbor" likely means that Kim has extracted an agreement from Xi putting the North under China's nuclear umbrella. This will probably be clarified as disarmament begins.

Trump had nothing to do with this; it was all China. The only influence remaining to the US had over NK was the threat of invasion, something that everyone but Trump and Bolton were vehemently opposed to. There is no longer any need for talks between Trump and Kim; Trump will not allow himself to be played as an afterthought. NK is now effectively a satellite state of China.

Trump and Bolton can now focus on what they'd preferred anyway: Iran. So it's not like the world is suddenly safer, at least as long as Trump is in power.

Great, that's a major step in the right direction. So just as the threat of imminent Nuclear attack from North Korea wanes, we now have the threat from Russia upon the Horizon... wonder if China can help with that one too ?

Hmmm interesting, I wish we could hear what was discussed, need more info.

Well, At least Abe can't use the Nuclear fear mongering anymore to change the constition. Wonder what he will come up with next.

Improving ties between North Korea and China would be a positive sign before planned summits involving the two Koreas and the United States, a senior South Korean official said on Tuesday.

Abe, I mean Japan is conspicuously absent from this list. This has to sting Abe quite a bit, being left out, and not having any other real recourse but to wait and see if he gets an invite!

We have seen this movie before.

I don't trust NK or China.

Maybe China gave them some pledge to be their nuclear umbrella.

Atta my Supreme Leader Kim. Played the imperfect world around, goes "good" in the end. Just like we always wanted.

So will Trump pull out of the Iran deal now?

Like the late great Stephen Hawkins said, all we need to do is make sure we keep talking. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS-qsh6eTik

Because if we stop talking, we can not convey our feelings and knowledge to each other, and the progress halts. Which is exactly why Kim Jong Un keeps talking, to finally resolve father sins of many nations.

Word is that NK is a done deal and the American Imperium is readying its forces for war with Iran.

Denuclearization could happen, and I think we have to give credit to Pres Trump for getting this ball rolling.

Does denuclearization pledge = give up their nukes? Somehow I think highly unlikely. China and NK will be playing this one close to their chests. A pledge from NK is like Trump asking Abe to urge something to happen. Who knows what was really said. I'm pretty sure the NK went there to try to get more oil and keep their nukes. China wants nothing better than to see the US out of SK and South China seas. Strategy meeting to extract max gains from West.

Word is that NK is a done deal and the American Imperium is readying its forces for war with Iran.

Whose word? I've seen a lot of speculation from a lot of people but there has been absolutely nothing from anyone with any inside knowledge.

Well, it's happening. Forward towards peace, or at least some variant on it.

Good news.

To those who said it wasn't possible - remember the Good Friday Agreement, 20 years ago.

It's not perfect and there is still divisions but it shows that dialogue works.

We are witnessing a global, bloodless power shift. No war needed, just an incompetent who alienates his allies in the White House.

Let’s play the game “What National Leader is a Dangerous Idiot?

Leader #1: Prior to a globally important summit with Leader#2, he meets with leaders of the most important nation in his neighborhood as well as leaders of #2’s most important ally in the area.

Leader#2: Flies to private resort in Florida, plays golf, and tries to find an attorney(s) to defend him against a lawsuit brought by a porn star. Prior to this, hires a national security adviser who advocated using nuclear weapons against the nation of Leader #1.

If Trump can do this, diplomatically and without rancour, I'll be impressed.

I honestly think Trump’s naivety is showing for all to see. What we’re seeing now is exactly the reason that bilateral meetings with NK were always preferred. Before Trump agreed to a direct meeting we had an isolated and weakened NK. However, after agreeing to the meeting NK could get concessions from China to preempt any possible agreement NK and US might have been able to make. Now the meeting between Trump and Un takes place with NK in a massively advantageous position after reaffirming ties to China. By appealing to Trump’s ego and getting him to agree to a unilateral meeting he unwittingly ended NK’s isolation.

@papigiulio = Exactly !!

Deeper sanctions must be working, finally.

But a pledge is not the same as action. NK has been lying to the world for 20+ yrs about their nukes. I have no reason to believe them at all this time.

The crux of the matter lies in these two paragraphs. Can the north break the mold, or is history about to repeat itself? The pre-conditions seem quite unrealistic, especially inserting Japan there.

Quote: "Kim Jong Un's predecessors, grandfather Kim Il Sung and father Kim Jong Il, both publicly promised not to pursue nuclear weapons but secretly continued to develop the programs, culminating in the North's first nuclear test in 2006 under Kim Jong Il.

The North had said in past failed talks aimed at dismantling its nuclear program that it could consider giving up its arsenal if the United States removed its troops from South Korea and withdrew its so-called nuclear umbrella of deterrence from South Korea and Japan."

It is foolish to believe what Xi states publicly. Xi and China as a nation have not been "truthful" except in the current declaration by Xi after the fact, that they intend to "rule" the world.They have been doing that for decades.

This entire thing was to put a damper on US Trump talks with Kim.

That is something which US advisors to Trump actually helped by continuing to "act" with a "big stick" treat and continued economic sanctions even after willingness to a summit. US gave China that opportunity to "act" kind and nice and take the lead in declaring denuclearzation, which China itself knows cannot and will not happen unless by force. But then it may have been China behind the whole thing, wanting to have such power to control without having the scrutiny of the world community as it was being made in N Korea.

For N Korea they needed a "backup" for force just in case Trump or the US somehow tried to "force" some action on him and China took the initiative before Russia. After all China is still afraid that now nuclear power N Korea, still somewhat unpredictable, will join S Korea and ally with the US. And China could play the "race" card toward both the US and Russia, siting history to get Kim to listen.

In any case this is a communication tactic to control the mind of the world community to "relax" and give "credence" to China as if they were a benevolent country.

That is something which Trump was trying to do despite his blatant tactics trying to "balance" the world's abusive "trade imbalance" while also trying to boost US productivity within the US.

In this case Xi because he does not have to answer to anyone, took the lead.

Sadly, Trump because of the divided US as nation, politically and otherwise, and heavy responsibility for nations worldwide, has too many advisors whom he needs but currently untrustworthy that influence his decisions and actions especially internationally.And he still has to answer to the people of US which has become a popularity contest with words and idealism often departing from reality.

Still Trump probably knows that Kim and N Korea "wants" to join the world community on an "equal" status and footing with other countries. And Kim knows that China will not give N Korea an equal status as China wants to dominate and rule the world.

kazetsukai, what joke are you taking about ? China dominates the world ? China can't even dominate Japan, or Okinawa !

Aside from pessimistic doubts that arise from any summit, I find it very low key, minus of media hype, and decisive in action. Abe just keeps talking and talking like a yapping Pomeranian.

So, a meeting with Trump is no longer necessary. Well Done!

Two possibilities:

The sanctions are unbearable or Kim has had a change of heart. Probably Kim has had a change of heart because the sanctions are unbearable. Conclusion: Kim will have another change of heart when the sanctions are lifted. This is human nature and the rest of the world is behaving the same way regarding the environment -- there's no stopping human greed, population growth, and the lust for power.

Not surprising that Kim met with Xi and getting all his Korean ducks in a row with China support before meeting with Trump.  Iit appears that friendship between North Korea and China has been repaired, Xi backs Kim wholeheartedly and Kim's nuclear hand is strengthened.

Xi understands DPRK goals and supports it. There is no significant conflict between DPRK goals and PRC goals.  In the long run, a nuclear-armed Unified Korea under DPRK politically aligned with China will be helpful to it's expansionism in the region, which is what Xi has in mind all along.

We all know Kim will not give up his nuclear and missile programs without major concessions from the U.S. The peace overtures to South Korea, "offer to denuclearize" and unprecedented meeting with Trump are smoke and mirrors to soften them up.

When Kim meets with Trump, Kim will demand that before denuclearization and any formal peace talks can begin, U.S. must first withdraw its forces from the Korean peninsula and demilitarize the DMZ border.

If U.S. refuses to withdraw forces and refuses to DMZ demilitarization, Kim will renege on his denuclearization offer and continue strengthening its nuclear and missile capabilities.  China will support that decision and continue to back North Korea regardless.

And Trump can no longer threaten or initiate any preemptive military strike.

With North Korea's strengthened nuclear hand and China's support, Kim will be in a stronger position to demand "peace talks" leading to Unification under DPRK regime. It's unfortunate for the South Korean people that they may be facing prospects of living under DPRK regime.