Lahaina residents brace for what they'll find as they return to devastated properties in burn zone

The recovery will be hard and long.

ash could contain asbestos, lead, arsenic or other toxins

Minus the asbestos, those are typically in tap water.

And asbestos is not a toxin. Its a hazardous material. And its not radioactive either. And you don't need a special mask around it, just something to prevent the constantly cleaving fibers from getting into your lungs.

This isn't Three Mile Island....not unless some company or group was storing or handling things they should not have had in a residential area.

And asbestos is not a toxin. Its a hazardous material. And its not radioactive either. And you don't need a special mask around it, just something to prevent the constantly cleaving fibers from getting into your lungs.

If there is asbestos floating in the air from disturbing the debris then a special mask is required. Not the sort worn during the pandemic.

The types of asbestos are blue, white, and brown. The blue is the most dangerous of them. They should assume the debris contains asbestos and other chemical which could also be deadly. The necessary precautions are needed.

In the UK in the 1970's I analyzed asbestos and supervised its safe removal.

Minus the asbestos, those are typically in tap water.

And asbestos is not a toxin. Its a hazardous material. And its not radioactive either. And you don't need a special mask around it, just something to prevent the constantly cleaving fibers from getting into your lungs.

This isn't Three Mile Island....not unless some company or group was storing or handling things they should not have had in a residential area.

There is a lot more than asbestos in that debris. There is arsenic, PCBs, various petrochemicals (think about all the paints, solvents, lubricants, cleaners, maybe even a can of gas for the chain saw or lawn mower in a typical garage, not to mention all the hazardous products that burned in hardware stores and the like), etc.. It is not like a single building burned. It is most of a town. The debris is not confined to a small area.

And asbestos is not a toxin. Its a hazardous material. And its not radioactive either. And you don't need a special mask around it, just something to prevent the constantly cleaving fibers from getting into your lungs.

Sigh, the ignorance. My parents old home in LA had vinyl asbestos tile flooring in several rooms. The 1994 Northridge Earthquake broke a big water trunk line (10 meter geyser across the street from their home) and flooded the crawl space beneath the house, soaking the carpets and causing all that vinyl asbestos tile to curl at the edges like a potato chip. It all had to be removed. The house had to be tented and the workers wore full coverage suits with booties and gloves disposed of each day and respirators while removing the flooring and cleaning up afterwards. Full HAZMAT situation. One is not going to safely work around asbestos simply with a mask over their face.

Sigh, the ignorance.

What ignorance?? Asbestos has been used for millenia. The Romans recognized that the people who are exposed to it long term developed health issues and died young. That knowledge was later ignored/discounted and was not really rediscovered until the 20th century.

People are treating asbestos like its friggen purified uranium. Well its not even close.

Of course no amount of exposure is good, but for it to really be so bad it knocks years off your life exposure pretty much needs to be long term and concentrated. We are not talking about long term and concentrated in this situation.

The house had to be tented and the workers wore full coverage suits with booties and gloves disposed of each day and respirators while removing the flooring and cleaning up afterwards. Full HAZMAT situation.

This is overdoing it. And just because they overdo it does not prove anything. But why not since its their job and there is risk because of their long term work directly with the stuff?

Asbestos is not a poison chemical. Its not radioactive. Its not a strong acid or base. Its not a biological infectant. Its not magic. Its simply a brittle, needle-like structure that constantly breaks down into more and more microscopic needle like structures, which repeatedly damage tissues, especially lung tissues. That repeated damage results in DNA mistakes which can eventually lead to cancer.

Its not going to do much anything to people sifting through the ashes of their homes for a few hours. And its not going to magically penetrate a cotton mask although it could come in through the side a bit. So what? We are exposed to all kinds of horrors in the air and our drinking water every single day.

The amount of asbestos and other dangerous chemicals in the debris is unknown. But over-cautious is better than uncautious.

Of course no amount of exposure is good, but for it to really be so bad it knocks years off your life exposure pretty much needs to be long term and concentrated. We are not talking about long term and concentrated in this situation.

From the 9/11 terrorist attacks in NY, a huge amount of asbestos was released. Many first responders and other people now have lung problems.

From a report

According to the most recent health survey the registry conducted in 2016:

   At least 352 people have been diagnosed with asbestosis.

   In addition, at least 444 people were diagnosed with pulmonary fibrosis. Exposure to asbestos and other fibers in 9/11 dust may have contributed to these cases.

   Nearly 16% have been diagnosed with cancer. For comparison, about 8% had been diagnosed with cancer in 2007.

   Approximately 35% report seeking medical care for shortness of breath.

   Nearly 70% of recovery personnel have suffered from lung problems, including World Trade Center cough syndrome.

In all, more than 63,000 people have been diagnosed with a 9/11-related health condition.

https://www.asbestos.com/world-trade-center/

Research shows no amount of asbestos exposure is safe. Symptoms of mesothelioma do not show up until 20-60 years after asbestos exposure.

https://www.asbestos.com/mesothelioma/statistics/

I have extensive experience with asbestos removal.

From the 9/11 terrorist attacks in NY, a huge amount of asbestos was released.

This is nowhere near a comparable situation! There is no ongoing fire now. There are no massive buildings around keeping the air in one place. There is no skyscraper collapse creating giant plumes of smoke and ash. These homes were not nearly so lined with asbestos as the WTC!

Get a grip and look at the picture. Even just a day or two afterward all was like in the picture.

Symptoms of mesothelioma do not show up until 20-60 years after asbestos exposure.

They don't "show up". It takes that long to simply occur. You are talking as if getting cancer is an instantaneous result of even limited exposure!

I have extensive experience with asbestos removal.

And it sounds like you over-sell for job security!

And it sounds like you over-sell for job security!

I worked with asbestos and dangerous chemicals removals in the 1970s not now.

There are many dangerous substances and chemicals in the debris. There were nondomestic buildings too. People can't rush in and start shoveling the debris into bags. It needs coordinating by the government using cleaning crews wearing proper protective clothing.

There is also the problem of where will all the debris be removed to. It will be taken Stateside.

There is no safe level of asbestos.

Now do you explain the nonfirst responders who now have serious health issues from 9/11? Very limited exposure.

"Immediate exposure to these toxic substances can cause anything from skin irritation to troubled breathing and vomiting. Over time they can lead to cancer or death. In addition to predictable substances, Lahaina's debris contains a unique Hawaii building material that harbors its own risk."

"In addition to predictable substances, Lahaina’s debris contains a unique Hawaii building material that harbors its own risk."

"Canec — pronounced cane-ick — was a fiberboard made from sugarcane fibers and treated with arsenic as a termite repellent. Structures dating between the 1930s and 1960s used the building material in load-bearing walls and ceilings, according to David Cerame, a project manager and restoration specialist with Architects Hawaii Ltd."

"Officials are also concerned about asbestos and lead paint in Lahaina. "

https://www.civilbeat.org/2023/08/toxic-debris-from-the-lahaina-fire-will-be-shipped-to-the-mainland/

“There will be hazardous waste, especially in Lahaina town.” He said the EPA has to search each home, each structure, and take and test soil ...

“I’m hoping to learn what we’re going to encounter as far as exposure to things we know nothing about,”

Unfortunately Lahaina residents are going to be the example of what kind of secondary problems this kind of huge tragedies will bring in the future. It will probably not going to be of much help with their loss but since similar disasters are predicted to be more likely thanks to climate change their experience may help other people survive.

Air samples are required around the town to calculate the amount of fibers in the atmosphere.

U.S. EPA begins hazardous material removal work in Lahaina today

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/us-epa-begins-hazardous-material-removal-work-lahaina-today

There are more than 500,000 tons of debris.

Now do you explain the nonfirst responders who now have serious health issues from 9/11? Very limited exposure.

Very MASSIVE exposure to pre-fragmented aspestos blasted into the air and trapped from dispersing by huge buildings all around.

This situation is not remotely comparable.

If there is asbestos in the debris is disturbed the asbestos will become airborne and then become dangerous. Like removing roof panels made from concrete and asbestos requires the proper safety precautions.

The authorities have already decided that the debris will be removed by qualified teams because of the risks involved.

Even glass fiber can be just as dangerous as asbestos.

The authorities have no idea the exact chemicals and fibers in the debris nor the amounts.

*

"Yes, it is toxic. Anytime you burn a home, you're looking at polyphenols and other hydrocarbons that are released from plastics and other things that burn within the house that are much different than a standard forest fire," said Josh Jimerfield, Butte County, California Deputy Administrative Officer for the Office of Emergency Management."

"Jimerfield, a debris subject-matter expert, worked with the Army Corp of Engineers during the Camp Fire cleanup. "

"Asbestos is also highly hazardous after it has burned. The substance was very popular for building materials in the 1960s and 1970s."

"Any asbestos, once it's burned, becomes what they call friable. So it's very dangerous to breathe," Jimerfield said. "(Crews) go into private property initially and look for and mark and remove the material that they can now process (which) can take anywhere from a couple of weeks to months depending on the scope of the damage for the fire."

https://www.foxweather.com/weather-news/maui-rebuild-recovery-toxic-ash-california-wildfires

In Lahaina, asbestos was used in building constructions including houses because much of it was built 50 years ago when its use was common.