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Lawmaker's rape gaffe pushes abortion into U.S. presidential race

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Ugh, I'm so glad this douchebag is getting backlash. I can't quite decide which is more offensive, the fact that he's trying to define "legitimate" rape (all rape is rape) or trying to make up science that supports the fact that he doesn't want women to have the rights over their own bodies.

It's so annoying that abortion is becoming a spotlight issue but 99% of the politicians talking about it are MEN.

14 ( +14 / -0 )

Sorry, but in the end the issues don't really count. On voting day, the Republicans will be trying to get rid of what they perceive to be a black Kenyan Muslim socialist and the Democrats trying to prevent a win by what they perceive to be a tax-dodging millionaire Mormon totally lacking in empathy.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Akin later apologized by saying:

I have great empathy for all rape victims.

Ah. Empathy, eh? So - he's experienced being raped, then?

11 ( +12 / -1 )

What's really scary is that there's probably more conservative politicians in congress who think like him.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

what they perceive to be a black Kenyan Muslim socialist and the Democrats trying to prevent a win by what they perceive to be a tax-dodging millionaire Mormon totally lacking in empathy.

One of these statements is significantly more true than the other, however...

2 ( +5 / -3 )

what they perceive to be a black Kenyan Muslim socialist and the Democrats trying to prevent a win by what they perceive to be a tax-dodging millionaire Mormon totally lacking in empathy.

One of these statements is significantly more true than the other, however...

0 ( +3 / -3 )

What does Paul Ryan think? I guarantee that question will be posed.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Sorry, but in the end the issues don't really count.

Not this one, anyway. Akin made an asinine statement, everyone's acknowledged it, what's the rumpus?

Abortion is a state issue, not federal- There will be no overturning of Row vs. Wade in the present Supreme Court.

Another 3-card monte, to shift focus... Pick a card, any card...

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

you have to wonder how many other Republicans hold similar views.... and to think there is a possibility that these people many be the leaders of the US by the end of the year - a very scary thought

6 ( +7 / -1 )

"Both Akin and Ryan co-sponsored a 2011 bill in Congress that would refine the federal abortion coverage ban exemption for rape to cover only “forcible rape.” That language was dropped under pressure from women’s advocacy groups and Democrats." Talking Points Memo blog

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Romney’s vice-presidential running mate, congressman Paul Ryan, partnered with Akin in 2009 to co-sponsor a “personhood bill” which declared a fertilized egg is entitled to the same legal rights as a person, and would have essentially outlawed abortion even in the case of rape or incest.

So Ryan partnered with this guy to write a bill making abortion even in the case of rape illegal. Great choice Romney.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Empathy, eh? So - he's experienced being raped, then?

Empathy doesn't necessarily include knowing the experience, it's about taking pity; putting yourself in the same position, regardless.

-2 ( +4 / -5 )

Well, I am glad to see that Romney qukckly distanced himself from this nutcase.

But the democrats for sure have found a talking point now. Just wait for this to be be brought up over and over again, to smear as many as possible.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

"But while Romney scrambled to distance his campaign from his party ally’s statement..."

He's going to be doing a lot of scrambling and distancing, and the fact that Ryan worked with Akin in the past and is strongly anti-abortion, the issue's not going to die down quickly. More points lost for these guys.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

It's comments like Akin's that shine the spotlight on one of the huge differences between conservatives and liberals - and underline the damage that a blind, unthinking belief in Christianity can create.

America conservatives are "more likely" to be Christian than liberals.  This, of course, means they are taught that all life is sacred.

Conservatives make an admirable start in this direction by standing strong against abortion - the taking of an unborn life.

But where it all unravels is that IF conservatives's REALLY believed in the sanctity of life, why do they support invasions, bombings and attacks against foreigners via wars? Why do many conservatives support the death penalty? 

Surely the life of an unborn fetus, a foreigner and a murderer are all still life?

So, do conservatives believe in the sanctity of life or not? It would seem not.

Do they really follow the Biblical teaching of "Thou shalt not kill"? Their selectiveness as to who "deserves" to die clearly shows they do not.

And in the case of abortion, if the mother will die by giving birth, where do conservatives generally stand on that? Isn't the mother's life also "life"?

Of course, it is, but in their drive to protect the life of an unborn baby, conservatives do not seem to really care if another life ends.

And the Bible doesn't help.

If one followed the New Testament, they would see Jesus preaches "turn the other cheek" and "love your neighbor as yourself."

But if one followed the Old Testament, they would read of the same God' - whose penultimate commandment was "Thou shalt NOT  kill" - engaging in indiscriminate slaughter of men, women (including pregnant ones), children, babies, elderly folks - across the board wholesale slaughter - much of it directly commanded by God - the SAME God as the one in the New Testament and who proclaimed to be the same God, now and forever. 

[For a truly horrific insight into how the "loving" Christian god behaves, read Deuteronomy.]

The way I see it, Akin spoke what is on his mind.  He is a true conservative who strongly believes in the right to life of fetuses.

Another key problem, though, is that the Bible where Akin very likely got his belief system from, was written in an age where the vast majority of women had no rights.

We've grown up a lot since then as a species and now many people believe that women fully deserve and should have rights.

Except, of course, if you are a conservative like Akin, who is clearly anti-women and anti-women's rights.

Society has developed, moved on, and grown up, however many conservatives are still living according to a religious (Christian) doctrine that has not budged in 2,000 years and are living lives that are not "Christian" at all.

9 ( +13 / -3 )

@Sushi

Don't speak for all Conservatives, I know plenty of liberals that are Conservative when it comes to this issue. Keep the focus on Akin, please. Even as a leaning Conservative, I thought his comments were way over the top, rude, insensitive and repugnant and every Conservative needs to shun this guy, without a doubt. This is one of those rare occasions that I cannot support the actions of an individual like him and the GOP is right for taking away any future campaign money from this guy and they should.

-3 ( +2 / -6 )

SushiSaki3: With all due respect, certainly the unborn have rights. More rights then putting their body parts together to ensure you got all of him or her. Something I would never want to do nor condone. Why people would point to body parts of an unborn and call it nothing is beyond me. What blind's them? Using the principle of double effect, a Rape victims should always be given the morning after pill to rid of the stuff put inside of the poor victim. If a life is lost it is not the intention. The intention I would say is to clean the body of the victim from whatever that evil was.

You make very good points on war though and it certainly is a waste of life. There is a just war theory, but it is just a theory and is always interpreted by each side as just. It is a blight on humanity as is greed, and the abuse of power... There is a lot of balderdash in you comment and I will let some rest. We do have the freedom of religion for now which gives the freedom of assembly which enforces the freedom of speech and the press. But maybe it is time to move on from the freedom of religion in the USA. It will be a "just society" as was tried in the 20th century.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Huge swathes of America (and, I suppose, conservative Muslim countries as well) would actually agree with this guy.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

"a legitimate rape"

I'm guessing if his wife was raped, Atkin wouldn't say that was a legitimate rape.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Romney was giving $50 abortions when he was Governor of Massachusetts.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

@bass

I thought his comments were way over the top, rude, insensitive and repugnant and every Conservative needs to shun this guy, without a doubt.

Well said! That's twice I've agreed with you today. (Here and Syria).

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Republican from Missouri - no surprise that he turns to pseudo-science. It drags America's name through the mud when anti-science, religious Neanderthals like this are even considered for public office. These people belong in snake charming churches driving cars with enormous engines with ' don't make a monkey out of me ' car stickers - not in Congress.

2 ( +4 / -1 )

The man is a disgusting throwback to the middle ages. He's no better than the Taliban, or the advocates of female mutilation, honor killings, and was treated with far too much deference by the interviewer. The mere fact that he is a live candidate for high public office tells us what we need to know about the state of America today. If that's the sort of pig-ignorance and tyrannical prejudice that Americans want to vote for, then they have a democratic right to do so, but only on condition that they don't try to vomit their foul ideological pollution over the rest of the world.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

His premise seems to be that if a woman gets pregnant from a rape, then she can't have been doing anything to stop it - maybe she was asking for it, or even enjoyed it - it wasn't really rape at all. Either way it's her own slutty fault and she deserves to be punished by being forced to give birth to an unwanted child.

Nasty, creepy, perverted chauvinistic little apology for a man.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

CNN mentions that the GOP will again adopt a plank in its platform calling for a constitutional amendment which would outlaw abortion in all cases. The article notes:

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney and his running mate Paul Ryan sharply condemned Akin's remarks and pledged that under a Romney administration, abortion would be allowed in the case of rape.

Otherwise, ladies, welcome to Big Government intrusion into your womb.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

A gaffe is not voluntary. He meant it. With all the guns in the US, I'm always surprised to see so many such jerks reached old age.

I'm guessing if his wife was raped, Atkin wouldn't say that was a legitimate rape.

No, no, he would. I read he proposed a bill to make marital rape to be no longer a crime. Legalizing domestic violence.

Ah. Empathy, eh? So - he's experienced being raped, then?

He would avoid getting pregnant from it.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

"What I think that these comments do underscore is why we should not have a bunch of politicians, a majority of whom are men, making health care decisions on behalf of women," Obama said.

I agree, and please include Obamacare, in that statement.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Ryan co-sponsored a bill with this guy to write a bill making abortion even in the case of rape illegal, and Romney used to be pro-abortion.

At least the flip-flop would seem a team effort, despite a contradictory one.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

What a horrible little worm of a man.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Paul Ryan, partnered with Akin in 2009 to co-sponsor a “personhood bill” which declared a fertilized egg is entitled to the same legal rights as a person, and would have essentially outlawed abortion even in the case of rape or incest.

Biased Lying Media hacks.

Congressman Ryan was just one of the 64 co-sponsors of H.R. 212, known as the Sanctity of Human Life Act for this House bill.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Media bias?

The other partners of the bill aren't the topic. Akin and Ryan are.

It is the bonehead comments from one of the Neanderthal representatives of the "American Taliban" living within the GOP that are in the headlines. Mr Ryan clearly shares at the least similar views Sail, howling once again at the media for reporting on the association between Ryan and Akin on a bill they penned on abortion is getting pretty unhinged.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

If this excuse for a human being stays on the ballot, let alone wins, it'll be a huge stain on the GOP.

Politically, the very fact he opened his mouth is helping the Dems and hurting the GOP, and if he wins, well, it'll help the Dems and hurt the GOP even more.

I find it unbelievable that [expletive deleted] like this have got anywhere near public office.

The neanderthal attitudes of some in the GOP are appalling. 

Sadly, there's many more where Akin came from, and some of them want to run America.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

howling once again at the media for reporting on the association between Ryan and Akin on a bill they penned on abortion is getting pretty unhinged.

Ryan and Akin penned no such thing and they were not "partners" on this bill either. H.R 212 was written and sponsored by Rep. Paul Broun Jr. [R-GA10]. He is the sponsor of this bill. His bill garnered the endorsement support of 64 co-sponsors including Ryan and Atkins. That is the only association between the two here. This article has lead you to believe that Ryan and Atkins partnered up and wrote this bill on their own. It's deceiving, not true and yet another example of Media bias that feeds people liberal spin and propaganda instead of factual news. Here is the actual bill, who wrote it, whats actually in it and all 64 co-sponsors.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr212

2 ( +3 / -2 )

It might seem unusual but America is right up there with countries ruled by religious extremists and groups like the Taliban when it comes to religion's control over the government.

America's political leaders still have prayer breakfasts, make oaths on holy books, and base policiy on ancient religious doctrine.

Ditto Iran, Afghanistan, etc.

People like Akin are the result. 

Christianity - in fact all religion - needs to be purged from government. 

It's all to easy to claim that Christianity involves pursuit of a "loving" god.

That's open to interpretation.

Where it falls down massively is the interpretations - masses of them - of Christianity cooked up by people.

Virtually everyone has different opinions, underlying that no one really knows for sure.

Back on the 50s, Billy Graham used to preach Hell, fire and brimstone as if hell was real.

In the 90s, he reverse tacked and proclaimed hell is "separation from God" - not an actual place at all.

==> even Billy Graham is guessing/doesn't know.

Akin is likely similar - he actually believes certain key teachings of the Bible, although if one dug a little deeper, they would find that Akin, like most Christians, believe and take on board only the teachings they like.

Take this one - a direct command from Jesus himself - "Sell your possessions and give to the poor." (Luke 12:33)

I bet that not a single Christian on this board or that any JT poster knows have done this.

And yet conservative politicians base actual policy on scripture.

 

0 ( +4 / -3 )

Sorry to sound like an idiot, but what is this GOP that some posters are referring to?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Paul Ryan also co-sponsored the bill with Akin.

The bill abortion-related, and would have purposely limited federal funding for abortions to victims of forcible rape.

If you put your name to something at least have the decency to admit it.

"It's deceiving, not true and yet another example of Media bias"

Respectfully Sail, that's nonsense. A partnership can have as many partners as it wants. You just breathing bias into it because you don't want the truth to come out about some of the radical viewpoints held by the man on your Veep ticket.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Grand Old Party.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

" "Sell your possessions and give to the poor." (Luke 12:33)"

Or just give to the poor as a tax write-off and the added bonus of making yourself look charitable.

0 ( +2 / -1 )

Sushi Sake:

" t might seem unusual but America is right up there with countries ruled by religious extremists and groups like the Taliban when it comes to religion's control over the government. "

That is a totally bizarre statement. Not only that, but also insulting to the people are beheaded, stoned, hanged, and mutiladed under Shariah rules.

I guess the the US partisan zealots sometimes lose all perspective when they talk about domestic politics.

-2 ( +1 / -4 )

Madverts:

" Grand Old Party. "

If you want to turn this into a US party political thing, you might want to remember that Obama is not a supporter of "partial birth abortion", which is a euphemism of killing a life, almost fully born baby, but also an advocate of killing those babies later which miraculously survive this procedure. (I guess the term would be "complete birth abortion"?).

For me, that is at least as despicable as the idiiotic statement about rape that this article is about.

-3 ( +1 / -5 )

"If you want to turn this into a US party political thing"

Uhm, he asked what GOP stands for?

This whole debate is a US party political thing, what are you talking about?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

WilliB, are you saying that America - like Iran, etc. - is and has not been ruled and controlled by religious extremists?

Akin's one. Sarah Palin could have been another. Ryan, Romney, Christine (forget her last name) a d the other short woman who was in the primaries are others. GWB allowed his religious beliefs to guide his policies. There's loads of them and you know it.

If I were you, I would be ashamed too.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Willib quiet? No, but the laughs are good.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

WilliB, are you saying that America - like Iran, etc. - is and has not been ruled and controlled by religious extremists?

Actually there is a school of thought that America was founded by religious extremists ie: the pilgrim founding fathers

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Actually there is a school of thought that America was founded by religious extremists ie: the pilgrim founding fathers

Where did you learn your history? Plymouth Rock landing was 1620, and the Declaration of Independence was over 150 years later signed in a different state, mostly by freethinkers.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"It's just sex; what's everybody up in arms about?!"

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Sorry, but in the end the issues don't really count. On voting day, the Republicans will be trying to get rid of what they perceive to be a black Kenyan Muslim socialist and the Democrats trying to prevent a win by what they perceive to be a tax-dodging millionaire Mormon totally lacking in empathy.

The extreme 20% of either party who vote straight party line no matter the candidate, maybe. The majority of Americans are disillusioned with the president's performance.and yet still view him in a positive light. It is the opposite for Romney. Voters still don't like Romney personally, but the economy appears to be helping him in swing states.And 95 percent of the people that show up to vote in November are going to show up in that voting booth, and they are going to vote for or against Barack Obama. If you think conservatives are more concerned with Obama's religion or birthplace than abortion I have a bridge to sell you real cheap.

Most people aren't extreme either way in their basic disposition, they're up for grabs.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

From Talking Points Memo better known as the Obama campaign:

In an email, DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz linked Akin’s comments to a larger trend of “backward statements from Republicans on issues affecting women’s health” and pointed to the anti-abortion bills that Akin and Paul Ryan have worked on together.

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/dnc-akin-romney-ryan.php

This article:

Romney’s vice-presidential running mate, congressman Paul Ryan, partnered with Akin in 2009 to co-sponsor a “personhood bill” which declared a fertilized egg is entitled to the same legal rights as a person, and would have essentially outlawed abortion even in the case of rape or incest.

Sit, lap dog media Sit.....The DNC will have tomorrows story for ya in a jiffy to print.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Spin and howl all you like Sail.....

Ryan co-authored a bill with the cave man in question that aimed to limit federal funding for abortions to rape victims.

These people are only a few centuries ahead of the Taliban.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Ryan co-authored a bill with the cave man in question that aimed to limit federal funding for abortions to rape victims.

You have a name for this mysterious bill that he "co-authored" with Akin's? Because I can't find one anywhere.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

There are people of faith who claim to believe in religion, but seem to be pretty sketchy about that religion.

But there are also people of faith who claim to be scientific, but seem to be pretty ignorant of science!

We see the former in the article. We see the latter in the comments. Sorry, but that is what I see in this very unreflective angry mob saying anything and everything to insult him without carefully analyzing his words.

I will start with the simple. He said "legitimate rape". What could he mean by that? Well, its hard to be certain. Its not a dictionary term. But it probably does not mean the most nasty evil thing you can imagine. That is just not really likely. It feels good to assume though, and that is EXACTLY what people of faith do. I am not such a person. I took it to mean real rape, as in she was actually forcibly raped.

Julian Assange has been accused of rape by some here. My understanding is that he did not use a condom properly or broke it on purpose. Many here would not have a problem with saying that was not "legitimate rape", but rather misconduct, or irresponsible. Then we have statutory rape. If an 18 year old has sex with his 16 year GF where it is illegal, is that "legitimate rape"? Not in my book. And of course we have cases of crying rape to save face, and sent a man to jail so that papa will still respect daddy's little girl and not think she is anywhere near a nymphomaniac, even if she is. So let's just define "legitimate rape" as real, brutal, traumatic, knock down, drag out rape, okay? Because I bet that is what he meant.

Did I say traumatic? Hey, doesn't trauma induce miscarriages? It sure does! And guess what? The reasons for miscarriages are not completely known or understood by the medical community. Believe me, I recognize this guy's ignorance. But guess what? Its just as ignorant to claim with all certainty that he is dead wrong. There just might be a mechanism at work doing just what he says at least part of the time, or through trauma as I suggested. And you know what? There is no way to prove it scientifically either way.

So what is my issue? Well, its pretty clear that real, legitimate rape does result in pregnancy at least some of the time, and real, legitimate rape does not always result in severe trauma. Plus, the law cannot always know 100 percent for sure anything concerning a rape claim. Therefore, the government should not be stopping any woman claiming rape from getting an abortion. And since some will lie, there is no sense stopping any woman who wants one from getting one.

I could try and pick apart his mind more, and guess at what other poorly constructed deep thoughts the man has, but I just can't be bothered. For now I will just say how sad it is that people don't get to be Congressmen for thinking scientifically and thoroughly, but rather just because so many people have faith in them for no solid reasons...because most people just can't keep up with scientific logical thought....as is abundantly clear by the comments here.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Sail, you've been suspiciously quiet all day on whether or not you actually support Akin's views....

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Oh Madverts,

I see you've confused the Democratic talking points. Your referring to the No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act.....

A BI-PARTISAN bill that was introduced to the 112th Congress of the United States in the House of Representatives by Rep. Chris Smith (R-New Jersey) and Dan Lipinski (D-Illinois). Which........

However, the bill's text does not offer a definition of "rape" nor of "forcible rape." Responding to the criticism about the language used in the rape exception clause, bill co-sponsor Dan Lipinski (D) stated, "The language of H.R. 3 was not intended to change existing law regarding taxpayer funding for abortion in cases of rape, nor is it expected that it would do so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Taxpayer_Funding_for_Abortion_Act

0 ( +0 / -0 )

This, of course, means they are taught that all life is sacred.

Actually I think they believe that all INNOCENT life is sacred. That clears many things up. Fetuses are innocent. But they still don't think it through enough. Not all criminals condemned to die are guilty. Plus they seem to think that all foreigners are guilty when they support their wars. It also fails to explain Jericho. But I guess all are guilty if their God says so. Still crazy on the whole.

Liberals tend to believe that all SENTIENT life is sacred. To them a fetus is not yet sentient. Criminals and foreigners are. And so is the mother who may or may not want a fetus to become a baby in her womb.

the Bible where Akin very likely got his belief system from, was written in an age where the vast majority of women had no rights.

NOBODY had any rights! The Bible does prescribe respectful treatment of women in general, whether you want to admit it or not. Nowhere does the Bible suggest to treat women like donkeys that won't pull a cart, and beat them silly. So why act like it does?

Except, of course, if you are a conservative like Akin, who is clearly anti-women and anti-women's rights.

What he is is an ignorant man of faith and not very sharp in the areas of science and philosophy. You say too much by accusing him of being anti-woman or anti-women's rights. He is simply so pro-fetus rights that that trumps women in his mind. Its not helpful to anything to make him out to seem to want enslave women. That is pure bull.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

What does Paul Ryan think? I guarantee that question will be posed.

Paul Ryan is a crusader of "Pro Life" along wth Todd Akin. Ryan thinks exactly the same as Atkin.

They have been pushing a qualifier "Legitimate Rape" and /or "Forciful Rape" to define rape on 73 bills (H.R.3) trying to overturn "Roe vs Wade". As Obama said , "Rape is a rape", there should not be any qualifiers for abortion.

In 2011, Rep. Akin co-sponsored Rep. Chris Smith's bill to redefine rape.

The purpose of the bill was to limit the number of survivors of rape and incest who could receive federally funded abortion care under existing law by changing the definition of rape to "forcible rape." That bill was so outrageous that even the extreme anti-woman majority in the House had to back down in the face of public opposition

Rep. Akin's utterly offensive remarks may be beyond the pale, but they are not isolated. They are part of a pattern of attacks led by Tea Party Republicans lead by PAUL RYAN against women in this country.

Atkin's claim about LEGITIMATE types of rapeI IS NOT completely foreign to Paul Ryan and the current Republican Congress, however. In 2011, the House GOP was forced to drop language from a bill that would have limited federal help to pay for an abortion to only victims of FORCIFUL RAPE Akin and Paul Ryan are co-sponsors on the 73 different bills derived from H.R.3.

A 1996 study by the American Journal of Obstetricians and Gynecologists found rape-related pregnancy occurs with significant frequency and is a cause of many unwanted pregnancies, an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year.

Most interesting thing is that "Nun on Bus" is now fighting against Paul Ryan. Paul Ryan is not a family man. But that's what he wants everyone to think. He is an ethiest brainwashed by the Fountainhead. There is nothing wrong with that, but the point is that Paul Ryan is a fake.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Sail, you've been suspiciously quiet all day on whether or not you actually support Akin's views....

The guy is a political moron for making comments like this and is not ready to be a Senator in the United States. Deserves what he's getting in the press and from the RNC for pulling out of his campaign.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

"Rape is a rape"

That is as true as it is not true. It depends on the context.

Some people say it to mean every form of statutory rape, sexual assault, or a sex act which stains family honor is rape, and that is pure hype.

Other people say it to mean that statutory rape, some kinds of sexual assault, and any kind of consensual sex is NOT rape, but real rape is rape. In other words only forcible rape is legitimate.

I lean more toward the latter, but rape is an extremely complicated subject that is made even more complicated by people with political agendas trying to call damn near everything rape.

Some of these types would call a Japanese porn a rape because the woman said "iya" once, and when the guy stopped, she said "Don't stop!". Clear rape some would say.

This discussion is not at all helped by those who write like rape is simple and easy to understand. Its not.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Sail, thanks for clarifying that. Appreciated.

Akin's gone and put out an advert, "I  Used The Wrong Words In The Wrong Way"

He sure damn did! Bad thing for Akin is that words that came from the heart are typically what's in the heart.

No amount of back tracking and fancy adverts is going to change that.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

AlternateUniverse, I think you're living on one.

" but rape is an extremely complicated subject..."

Really? 

I would think it's very simple: unwanted sexual/vaginal penetration. (I hope that doesn't get zapped by the Mod.)

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Bad thing for Akin is that words that came from the heart are typically what's in the heart.

No. The bad thing is that people will not hear a man out, but rather take joy in assuming every last thing he meant or thought by a handful of words with little supporting context. And the majority do it, political mindset irrelevant. Both sides of the spectrum engage in this ugly past-time with unholy glee. And it makes me sick.

That said despite the fact that I think the man belongs no where near political office.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Please do not post inflammatory comments.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

AlternateUniverse - "Both sides of the spectrum engage in this ugly past-time with unholy glee. And it makes me sick."

The only thing that males me sick is the ignorant vitriol that came out of Akin's mouth/heart.

No, politics be damned - BOTH sides are slamming this ignorant twit. 

This isn't a partisan issue.

BTW, has he resigned yet?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Really?

Really.

Just one little example. A husband initiates sex with his wife while she is sleeping. She half awakes but says nothing for the duration. Next morning, she remembers nothing. Was it rape?

Or next morning, she says it was nice. Was it rape?

Or next morning, she gets angry about it. Was it rape?

Just one example, and I could think of many. And we could debate then forever and ever.

Then we have the psychological effects of rape, which vary widely, from nothing to severe trauma. Then we have proving rape. She says it was rape. He says no. How to find the truth? Rape is complicated. If you don't realize that, you never thought about it much.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

"presumptive GOP vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan called Akin to ask him to drop out of the race, according to CBS News' Chris Licht."

REALLY?? But Paul Ryan supports Akin's views!

If Ryan was legit he would be offering his support.

What a gutless loser Paul Ryan turned out to be...

0 ( +2 / -1 )

My error Sailwind, co-sponsored not co-authored. I'd written it enough times already on this thread but I understand your need to be obtuse....here I'll try again:

Ryan co-SPONSORED a bill with another nutcase Republicans, one of them called Akin, that aimed to limit federal funding for abortions to rape victims.

Get it?

The American version of the Taliban lurking in the Republican party feel it's humane behaviour to deny a woman who was raped an abortion if she cannot afford the procedure.

Like I said - you guy are a few centuries ahead of the Taliban who would in all fairness be blaming the woman for being raped. Fanatical conservatives are slightly more evolved, but that isn't a compliment. Religious cranks and Republican control freaks should never have a say in making THE most important decision in a woman's life. It has no place in the modern world for accidental pregnancy, let alone forcing a woman to carry and raise a baby created from rape.

0 ( +2 / -1 )

"I used the wrong words in the wrong way".......but I still believe what I believe and that is women deserve no say in matters of their reproductive health. In fact they don't deserve access to birth control, health care, family planning clinics and certainly not abortion. Every sperm is sacred, even a rapists."

The GOP motto.

Romney/Ryan/Akin 2012!

-1 ( +2 / -2 )

"I could try and pick apart his mind more"

You did a pretty decent job probably.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Interesting article here:

http://washingtonexaminer.com/democrats-spent-1.5-mil-to-help-akin-win-gop-primary/article/2505373#.UDOLA1JsSrR

It points out that Democrats actually spend millions helping this nutcase win the GOP nonimation, betting that he would come out and say something really stupid. And the bet paid off...

Looks like we are looking dirty US political games here. Note to politicians: when the other party actively "helps" one of your candidates, better be suspicious...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Mads, hear, hear.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

BOTH sides are slamming this ignorant twit.

Yes, but for all the wrong reasons. At least you have pointed to his ignorance, which is heart and soul of the whole thing. Yet some say what he said was offensive. It wasn't. Suggesting that women can shut down a pregnancy after a rape is not offensive. Its just not very likely and not a good basis at all for abortion laws.

Some said it was not proven by science. Thing is, its not 100 percent DISPROVEN by science either. So that is moot.

There was a good quote by someone in the article that labeled his words in three ways, but never used the word ignorant. Unfortunately, that has been edited away. People are making mountains out of molehills, despite the fact that there is plenty of mountain RIGHT THERE if they would only raise their heads.

-1 ( +1 / -3 )

Sushi Sake 3:

" REALLY?? But Paul Ryan supports Akin's views! "

I am not American and don´t spend a lot time following US politicians. But from what I have read from Paul Ryan, I always found he makes a lot of sense.

If you actually have a source for your claim that Paul Ryan believes that "legitimate rape" does not result in pregnancy, then please share it.

Safe prediction: Instead of a source, for your wild claim, we will only get hot air.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@Willi

It points out that Democrats actually spend millions helping this nutcase win the GOP nonimation, betting that he would come out and say something really stupid. And the bet paid off...

Looks like we are looking dirty US political games here

Nothing dirty about ensuring your opponents' views are heard loud and clear.The fact that they are ridiculous views isn't the Dems' fault.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Dems should force and up or down vote to see who supports Akin's views and who doesn't.

Like Grover Norquest's anti-tax pledge.

I bet if it was a conscience vote the GOP would be beating each other up to get to the front of the line to sign on the dotted lime that they support repressing women's rights to control their own bodies.

I'd bet most conservatives on Japan Today would be up to support Akin too.

Because the Bible tells them so.

Who cares about anything else, right?

-2 ( +0 / -1 )

BTW, has he resigned yet?

GOP has been threating him to quit by 5 pm today. GOP is not going to provide $5 millions for his campaign. Well, as of now, he wants to stay. That's okay and he is entitled to his opinion. The sad thing is many GOP believe that deep in their hearts.

More longer he stays in the race, less senate seats GOP gets. He was insulting many American womens who were undecided voters. Now GOP does not want to talk about Medicare and Abortion issues. They have been flip-floping on these issues and do not know what to do with them.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

WilliB,  the latest I read was that both Akin and Ryan are anti-abortion. That much is clear.

The devil is in the details: We all know Akin's views; Ryan - as I read it - is against abortion even if the mother's life is at risk.

Oranges and mikan.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@AlternateUniverse

Suggesting that women can shut down a pregnancy after a rape is not offensive. Its just not very likely and not a good basis at all for abortion laws. Some said it was not proven by science. Thing is, its not 100 percent DISPROVEN by science either. So that is moot.

Unicorns aren't 100 per cent unproven by science (I don't think "disproven" is a word). Neither are leprechauns or poltergeists. But I think they'd be a pretty silly basis on which for any scientist to base theories. So not moot. Simply ridiculous.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Madverts,

No offense but you are totally wrong:

H.R. 3: No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act

The bill States directly in Sec 308

Sec. 308. Treatment of abortions related to rape, incest, or preserving the life of the mother

‘The limitations established in sections 301, 302, and 303 shall not apply to an abortion-- ‘(1) if the pregnancy is the result of an act of rape or incest; or ‘(2) in the case where a woman suffers from a physical disorder, physical injury, or physical illness that would, as certified by a physician, place the woman in danger of death unless an abortion is performed, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself.

It had 227 Co-Sponsors including 10 Democrats who signed on. Want to try and tie Ryan to them also????

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr3

2 ( +1 / -0 )

It will take a long time before the US can completely outgrow religion but there are encouraging signs here. Right wing posters have been generally been noodling around with details or claiming that most conservatives don't agree with these views ( a poll of the southern states could be interesting ). It is progress of a kind when we have yet to hear one defence of a religious viewpoint.

-1 ( +1 / -1 )

The critical question is this:

Are conservatives against women having control over their own bodies, or.....

 do conservatives think women should not have control over their own bodies?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Because the Bible tells them so.

Who cares about anything else, right?

You are right on. I believe in Separation of Church and State. I am Pro-Choice.

His Love started when I was in the mother's womb. Reference: Psalm 139:13

-2 ( +0 / -1 )

@Jimizo

It will take a long time before the US can completely outgrow religion

A bit harsh. Heck, I'm a Christian but I'd be described by 90% of Americans as "Communist". Thing is, if you take Christ's words seriously, you're going to end up with one of the most awesomely left-wing, people-for-the-people, progressively radical societies imaginable. I say bring it on :)

0 ( +2 / -1 )

In Akin's nutjob world, if there is "legitimate rape," then there must also be  is "legitimate rapist."

Hands up all the conservatives out there who agree with this in their hearts but who verbally say it's wrong because it's election year and they don't want to alienate any more than the millions of women they've already alienated.

-1 ( +1 / -1 )

“I've noticed everyone who is for abortion has already been born.”

― Ronald Reagan

-1 ( +3 / -5 )

I'm not for abortion, but I sure as hell don't understand why people are trying to get it completely outlawed. The original Roe v Wade in place works just fine, making it illegal will just drag us back to the problem of more women harming themselves trying to abort the child on their own.

One thing I want to let people think about when they're "pro" abortion. You would not be here today if your mother decided she didn't want you... it was her body and you were a "thing" that wasn't wanted and that would have been her "choice" not yours. With all the contraceptives we have now its ridiculous that the majority of abortions are not because the mothers life is in danger, rape or incest (which only count for about 1-5% of abortions) but because they didn't take proper precautions.

1 ( +1 / -1 )

Sailwind,

Every article I'm reading on the bill is saying Ryan was drawn into the controversy because he co-sponsored a bill along with Akin that would limit federally funded abortions to victims of what they determined “forcible rape.”

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@lucabrasi I agree that the hypocrisy of the Christian right who completely ignore camel/eye of the needle, turn the other cheek and take no thought for the morrow is breathtaking. Then again, do we really want a government which takes no thought for the morrow? I'm with you on the camel/eye of the needle. If Jesus were here today, he'd be turning over tables in Goldman Sachs.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"“I've noticed everyone who is for abortion has already been born.” ― Ronald Reagan

Yeah, he believed in Armageddon too.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Dems should force and up or down vote to see who supports Akin's views and who doesn't.

His views are not the real problem. Its his baseis for them. With baseis like these, the only way he can be right about anything is with luck and repetition of what he is told by others. Its like having the government on auto-pilot. And guess what? It basically is. Most of government is just a gaffe waiting to happen. I don't find the man to be much worse for this. Unlike so many others, he has just been exposed is all. And sadly, people are not seeing what is exposed, but rather, digging in the wrong places.

-1 ( +0 / -2 )

" WilliB, are you saying that America - like Iran, etc. - is and has not been ruled and controlled by religious extremists? "

If you really think it is an argument in adult and reasonably intelligent company to compare the US (or any other Western country) with the Islamic Republic of Iran with with its Grand Ayatollha, its death fatwahs, its martyrdom brigades, its Shariah stonings and beheadings, I can´t help you.

Good grief.

1 ( +2 / -2 )

Sushi Sake:

" WilliB, the latest I read was that both Akin and Ryan are anti-abortion. That much is clear. "

Yeah. The latest I read is that both Akin and Ryan eat breakfast. For that matter, Obama does too. And that proves exactly what?

You claimed that Ryan agreed with the idiotic claim made by one guy that "legitimate rape" does not lead to pregnancy.

I asked you to show proof. And I predicted that all we would get is hot air. You just proved me right.

Sheesh.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

This is in truth, for the GOP, a perfect example of a Kinsley gaffe.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Here is perhaps what Akin really wanted to say -

Dubdubdub.theonion.com/articles/i-misspokewhat-i-meant-to-say-is-i-am-dumb-as-dog,29256/

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

“I’m not a quitter. My belief is we’re going to take this thing forward, and by the grace of God, to win this race,” Akin said.

Expect more from this bigot. It scares me the likes of him are holding positions in government.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

He's certainly a gift for the democrats right now. I wonder if he's going to hang on after 5pm today and really sink them.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

If you are taking a side with Akin, Ryan, Romney and other GOP , I assume that you are willing to share a financia, emotional, and social responsibility for that child. I am sure you are not going to be a dead-beat dad while many poor women in America are left alone with the child in society with NO help.

That's one of the reason a Nun-On-Bus is fighting against Paul Ryan. He is very cold and ready to pull all these financial funds away from helpless poor women and children who are in need. They need to eat as well as you do for survival.

I hope you are using a condom when engaging in sex. Do not expect all women to be on birth control pills. Some of them cannot afford it.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

And it just keeps getting worse for the GOP.

After 1 week, the expected Ryan Bounce has become the Ryan Bomb - Mitt's numbers are unchanged.

And now, to underline that the GOP always know when to kick themselves in the teeth at the worst possible moment - "Draft language for the 2012 Republican Party platform includes support for a constitutional ban on abortion without specifying exclusions in the cases of rape or incest, according to CNN."

Welcome, president Obama, to your second term in office. 

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Akin's "crime" was that he simply pulled back the curtain. It's not his remarks other Republicans dont like. They all agree with him. It's that he said it out loud.

Nothing more- nothing less.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Japan is often singled out [in the media] as a country where women are not equal to men, lack positions in management, government, are discriminated. However, this country in the Far East allows women the basic right, all humans have, to have control over their own bodies. No religion, cult or doctrine has a right to interfere. In particular, denying a women termination of a pregnancy by a bureaucracy that bases its standards on Christianity, an unproven science, and the same bureaucracy that supports capitalism at its worst, policing the world with deadly forces so very un-christian, is clearly very far astray from the values it purports to teach other nations.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Congratulations to Obama. He has gotten the 2nd term.

Many GOP will end up losing more seats in both Senate and the lower House of Rep.. GOP especially Paul Ryan is pushing Coal, Oil (for the Koch Brothers, Nuke while Obama is pushing Solar and Wind renewal energy plan.

Ryan, Romney, GOP and Karl Rove have not learned anything from Fukushima disaster in Japan..

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

presto

totally agree

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Sushi Sake:

" WilliB, I agree - you're right again - the things you listed ARE evil. But America's military attacks and invasions that led to the deaths, poisoning, firebombing and napalming of hundreds of thousands of innocents was Ok, right? "

America´s military does what its elected leaders tell them to do. You don´t like what they do, elect other leaders.

None of this is based on medieval scripture and controlled by an unelected Grand Ayatollha who represents God.

Where do you get off claiming relativizing this to Iran? Good grief.

NB: I am still waiting for proof of your claim that Paul Ryan thinks that "legal rape does not lead to pregnancy". I take it will be a long wait.... any chance of retraction?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Romney's patently chasing the vociferous, rosary bead-rattling, altar rail-biting minority of Catholics who eschew popular practice and interpretation of the faith, by not giving a rat's arse for their fellow humans.

Akin's planted gaffe once again allows the GOP to portray Barack Obama as abortionist-in-chief, consolidating the above and the Bible bashers, whilst deftly deflecting attention from Romney's Church of Mammon ties.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Obama and his minions will milk this latest shiny object for as long as they can. After all, he can't run on his successes of the last 4 years.

RR

2 ( +3 / -1 )

That is as true as it is not true. It depends on the context.

Some people say it to mean every form of statutory rape, sexual assault, or a sex act which stains family honor is rape, and that is pure hype.

Other people say it to mean that statutory rape, some kinds of sexual assault, and any kind of consensual sex is NOT rape, but real rape is rape. In other words only forcible rape is legitimate.

I lean more toward the latter, but rape is an extremely complicated subject that is made even more complicated by people with political agendas trying to call damn near everything rape.

Some of these types would call a Japanese porn a rape because the woman said "iya" once, and when the guy stopped, she said "Don't stop!". Clear rape some would say.

This discussion is not at all helped by those who write like rape is simple and easy to understand. Its not.

You do not have to make it too complicated. Rape is a rape. Hope you are not forcing women to engaging in sex when they are saying "NO" to you. Stop it when they are not willing to participate. Respect women. No brainer. That simple!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

presto345Aug. 22, 2012 - 12:40AM JST

Japan is often singled out [in the media] as a country where women are not equal to men, lack positions in management, government, are discriminated. However, this country in the Far East allows women the basic right, all humans have, to have control over their own bodies. No religion, cult or doctrine has a right to interfere. In particular, denying a women termination of a pregnancy by a bureaucracy that bases its standards on Christianity, an unproven science, and the same bureaucracy that supports capitalism at its worst, policing the world with deadly forces so very un-christian, is clearly very far astray from the values it purports to teach other nations.

You've got it right, presto. America has been crusading a "Human Rights" to Chinese while we (GOP) cannot even get this issue streight for American women.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

paying for the abortions of rape victims is a large part of what this is about.

Is that right? The question isn't whether abortion should be legal, but whether the state should pay for it? Because those are two very different questions.

The article suggests to me that those 'conservative Christians' are opposed to all abortion for whatever reason, not just ones they may be expected to pay for out of taxes. (And I see little suggestion that those conservative Christians are ready to support from their taxes the product of those non-abortions)

As for all this nonsense about whether rape is really rape - if you're on the receiving end of it you know what it is, unless perhaps it's statutory rape - and that's the point, the person on the receiving end of statutory rape is deemed legally unable to consent to sex.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Not this one, anyway. Akin made an asinine statement, everyone's acknowledged it, what's the rumpus?

Abortion is a state issue, not federal- There will be no overturning of Row vs. Wade in the present Supreme Court.

Roe vs Wade was affirmed in the US Supreme Court dealing with the 14th Amendment. FYI

0 ( +0 / -0 )

As for all this nonsense about whether rape is really rape - if you're on the receiving end of it you know what it is

Okay. So now rape is whatever any woman says it is, and when a woman says rape, we don't need trials. Just lock up the guy she points at and hand her some abortion money.

None are as blind as those who refuse to see. None of this is so simple, and insisting it is is not helping anyone.

The question isn't whether abortion should be legal, but whether the state should pay for it? Because those are two very different questions.

Both questions receive plenty of debate. But yes, since Christian Conservatives tend to think all abortion is murder, they will do anything against any abortion. I think their thinking is skewed, but that is what they think. Of course this means they should be no where near government, but there they are, and we have to deal with them.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

So now rape is whatever any woman says it is, and when a woman says rape, we don't need trials.

No, apparently any rape that results in a pregnancy isn't a 'real' rape at all, because a woman's body stops it. If she gets pregnant, it's proof that she was asking for it, according to this Akin moron.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

AlternateUniverse not that easy we had women crying rape just to get attentions.

And a few cases where the lady refused protection and ended up pregrant. Neither was a real rape as both agreed in the end.

Sexual protection is up to both parties and if one says NO it should end there for both sexes. Anything beyond that is rape. Know many guys that got ladies so exited they said YES is still Rape?

Sex is a mutual agreement and activity anything beyond that is.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Heck, abortion is always pushed into presidential races. I remember Al Gore saying to Dan Quayle, "Can you just say 'I support a woman's right to choose?'"

0 ( +0 / -0 )

No, apparently any rape that results in a pregnancy isn't a 'real' rape at all, because a woman's body stops it. If she gets pregnant, it's proof that she was asking for it, according to this Akin moron.

The question was concerning what rape is, not what it isn't. Now you have switched to avoiding it. I agree that pregnancy is irrelevant for proving rape, but everybody gets a dumb idea every once in a while. That does not mean the qualifier of legitimate rape or some other is not warranted in laws. Because if we don't have it, we could wind up paying for a lot more abortions than is fair.

I guess your deflection is part of the process of realizing that this is not nearly as simple as Obama declaring that "rape is rape". He opportunistically said that for political points, but its not at all helpful.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Lawmaker's rape gaffe pushes abortion into U.S. presidential race

That wasn't just a gaffe - it was mindless and nonsensical. However, the comment has nothing to do with the presidential race. The Democrats would like the presidential race to be about anything but Obama's incompetence over the last four years so his campaign and his allies in the press will push this "War" on women angel - whatever that is supposed to mean. Although the guy apologized I find it hard to see where he came up with such a statement - even accidentally. He will probably lose his race, but his troubles will not save Obama from his fate - a one term guy who will have earned the award as "Worst President in American History".

0 ( +1 / -2 )

That does not mean the qualifier of legitimate rape or some other is not warranted in laws. Because if we don't have it, we could wind up paying for a lot more abortions than is fair.

So it's about the money after all. Not about the pain, distress, hurt, unfairness, discrimination, shame, women have to suffer.

And then think about what 'we' already have wound up paying for, being less than fair: smoking, alcohol and obesity related treatments that can be prevented like unprotected sex. It's the (unprotected or not) non-consensual sex that needs to be dealt with fairly, defining what it clearly is: sexual assault, forcible sexual intercourse.

For even a small segment of the population of a nation that considers itself advanced or developed not granting their women the respect and rights they deserve, apparently not thinking of or treating them as their wives, partners, daughters, mothers, etc. is deplorable and shameful.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Is there anything more stupid than a b-grade politician with a microphone? You have to wonder. I find it incredible that there are people who still hold on to these types of views. But what's more frightening is that this guy was elected....wow.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Legitimate rape, legitimate abortion, illegitimate children, illegitimate government, whatever... unemployment is still really high, the debt is growing by a trillion dollars a year, and everyone agrees that the economy is heading for a recession again next year when America goes over the fiscal cliff. So let's just keep focusing on some idiotic comment by some politician that nobody has ever heard of before. Oh yeah, things aren't looking so good for the USA these days....

0 ( +0 / -0 )

pesto, I always enjoy reading your posts. You always hit issues objectively. Amazing indeed.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Sushi

Akin's "crime" was that he simply pulled back the curtain. It's not his remarks other Republicans dont like. They all agree with him. It's that he said it out loud.

Nothing more- nothing less.

Leave it to you to lump all Republicans into a single collective. Where do you find the time to talk to every singe conservative in America.

@wolfpack

Come on, what do you expect? The Dems are sweating, they know this is Avery close election and THE biggest issue is the economy, but the Dems have nothing to run on. So Akin was a God's send and to tie that to Abortion and Romney's taxes and Ryan's healthcare plan. You got something meaty. If the Dems talk about the economy, they are toast. Pure and simple.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

gelendestrasse:

" Is there anything more stupid than a b-grade politician with a microphone? "

How about an a-grade politician with a microphone? While the press latches on the stupid remark made by this Akins guy like a pack of wolfes, the equally stupid remarks made by the current president and his sidekick Joe just as recently get pretty much ignored. But then, they are part of the team, aren´t they.

Like Mark Halperin recently so understatedly observed: "The media is very susceptible to doing what the Obama campaign wants, " You can say that again.

1 ( +1 / -1 )

Republicans are smartest of the smart people !!!!!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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