Leaders of Russia and China tighten their grips, grow closer

This has been going on for a while and I saw this when I was in St. Petersburg 3 years ago. So many Russians I met there were learning or speak Mandarin and I met several people who had been on or were planning to go on exchange programs.

This is an interesting alliance. During the cold war the U.S. shared many cultural traits with our "enemy" and our differences were in ideology. With China we have differences in ideology but we do not share similar cultural traits as we did with the now defunct U.S.S.R. and I believe it is one of the main reasons that it is difficult to solve problems together with China. At least with the U.S.S.R. we were able to maintain backdoor channels of communication that seem very difficult to do with China.

If China and Russia become closer and form a strong alliance it will be a very powerful force against the rest of the world and the outcome is quite unpredictable. The question would then be: are the ideological similarties strong enough to hold a China / Russia alliance together in spite of the cultural differences?

The world is changing very rapidly and I think the Covid situation will accelerate these changes.

Xi and Putin are heroes to anti-democracy, pro-authoritarian groups around the world. They both lead empires expanding their areas of control well beyond their borders.

Russia has enough fossil fuel reserves to keep the planet burning, burning, burning for decades, enough fuel to burn to ensure the planet is pushed far passed climate change tipping points. And with Russia's partner China increasing its demand for more fuel to burn, burn, burn, the rest of the world is well stuffed.

Russia ranks 146the on the World Press Freedom Index, China 177. That must please the media-phobes in the anti-democracy, pro-authoritarian movements who daily use a free, for-profit media to attack the free, for-profit media.

Russia and China are also alike in the ways they deal with political opposition. Waiting for 'west is worse'.

This has been going on for a while and I saw this when I was in St. Petersburg 3 years ago. So many Russians I met there were learning or speak Mandarin and I met several people who had been on or were planning to go on exchange programs.

There has long been a Russian presence in China (and vice versa). There were long-established Russians in Beijing the first time I went there, two decades ago.

with Russia's partner China increasing its demand for more fuel to burn, burn, burn, the rest of the world is well stuffed.

I haven't checked if they are demanding more fuel, but as I understand it, China also has some serious green initiatives in place. They were starting from a pretty bad place in the first place though.

China also has some serious green initiatives in place

Both China and Russia have huge reserves of elements needed for alternatives to burning so much fossil fuel. China is currently second to the US in burning fuels. I can't imagine their industries burning less in the near future.

Make no mistake, there's still a lot of mistrust between these two.

@Strangerland

This has been going on for a while and I saw this when I was in St. Petersburg 3 years ago. So many Russians I met there were learning or speak Mandarin and I met several people who had been on or were planning to go on exchange programs.

There has long been a Russian presence in China (and vice versa). There were long-established Russians in Beijing the first time I went there, two decades ago.

Yes I absolutely agree with you. I should have expanded on my post indicating what I saw was an incredible acceleration of such programs (and this was related to me by Russians) which is more indicative of expanding and accelerating the relationship. I have been to both countries in the past as well and what you say is certainly true and has been true since the 1950s.

All that's missing is Kim and Trump, then there'd be a big old party!

Dismantle the superstates.

All of them.

...and the US teams up with the UK, i.e. invasion of Iraq.

Political alliances are nothing new.

"Leaders of Russia and China tighten their grips, grow closer"

They are not leading anyone. They are just DicKtators

Russia and China. I guess leopards never change their spots.

Unsurprising given the US was MIA on the international stage between 2017 and January 2021

Given the Democrats obsession with fruitless and constant investigations, it was an amazing fact that the former President could even engage China ( something his last 3 predecessors ignored ) and now this new administration (surprisingly) are slowly waking up and hopefully will take China more seriously and put gender equity and identify politics to the side for a moment become more aggressive and proactive when it comes to these two countries especially China.

Things look to be on the verge of spiraling out of control in the Ukraine and blame falls squarely with the Biden administration .

put gender equity and identify politics to the side for a moment

What is "identify politics"? What has this got to do with the topic & why are the alt right bringing such things up?

Xi has been encouraged by Putin and Trump, but one feels he will be around for much longer than the latter and use his cult of personality in a similar way to the former in order to continue to crush dissent and foster expansionism.

Hope to see all three authoritarians in the Hague, one day.

will take China more seriously and 

It must be a challenge for those in the global alt right who've been supportive of Trump's alliances with Russia while at the same time demonizing China to see Russia siding with China. Recall, too, that both China and Russia are partners with Iran, another state many in the 'western' alt right have demonized.

China and Russia deeply mistrust each other. But they share one overriding goal - they want to make the US weaker...

Putin has blamed the US and Europe for the end of the Soviet Union, what he has called the worst humiliation in Russian history...he wants to destroy America....

Xi merely wants the US out of the Pacific, so he can retake Taiwan and establish a Chinese sphere of influence throughout all of Asia, with China the paternal leader and all other nations subordinate vassals...a return to the Middle Kingdom...

They see their chance with the rise of Trumpism and the far-right in the US who share their values of cronyism and authoritarianism. Challenge the US and the Repubs and the far-right will side with Russia and China against their own government.

Let's hope their calculation is incorrect...but unfortunately I think they may have it right....

What's more, as they consolidate political control at home, sometimes with harsh measures, they're working together more substantively than ever in a growing challenge to the West and the world's other superpower, the United States, which elects its leader every four years.

If Russia and China forge a league, Russia would most likely benefit economically if both countries were to align themselves. However its unlikely that Russia and China will ever make this sort of agreement, both countries have their differences unequivocally and it seems in the future it will seem to remain that way.

If Russia and China joined forces, could they topple the US ? In military terms, any attack on the US will be an attack on all NATO members, while the US mutual defense pacts with Japan, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand have similar clauses. So, it will not be just Russia and China (perhaps with North Korea) vs. the US, but Russia and China vs. NATO and Japan, South Korea, the Philippines, Taiwan, Australia, New Zealand, and the Persian Gulf monarchies, such as Saudi Arabia. In such a massive war, European non-NATO countries that don't border Russia, such as Sweden and Switzerland, are likely to join NATO. Israel will help as much as possible.

As much as tensions between the US and China are escalating, there’s never going to be a war between the two because the US depends on Chinese products and China depends on the US to buy them. We’ve been talking about human rights and the Most Favored Nation status since the Clinton years. Business however carries on as usual.

If WW3 breaks out, it will likely be between the US and Russia plus/or China. However, there’s too much economic codependence between the US and China for a war to happen. Thus, Russia is a more likely candidate since it’s not as codependent with the US. However, there is still the issue of mutually assured destruction. Thus, while we see more cyberwarfare, we won’t see a straight up war.

The posted picture shows the budding bromance of Xi and Putin. Such a shame bromances are illegal in Russia. Although laws there are for the citizens not for the leaders so I sence a loophole.

Like 2 peas in a pod steamrolling over their weaker neighbors. Kind of like one German dictator from the 1930s and 40s.

Things look to be on the verge of spiraling out of control in the Ukraine and blame falls squarely with the Biden administration .

The Ukraine is a sovereign nation. Russia is also a sovereign nation and the agitator of the problems in Ukraine. None of which is the USA's responsibility or fault. Biden and America have zero to do with whats going on in eastern Europe. That is all on Putin and Russia. Biden haters will find any excuse, even fake ones to bash Biden, the man who took down Trump.

There is a serious issue.

The CCP in China cannot allow any alliance to take any of their control of propaganda, power, and economic dominance. This is why China is tepid with North Korea as Lil Kim is considered a god in his country. China has to tap dance very carefully lest the Norks use it to their propaganda benefit against Xi and the CCP, "Hey look even China bows before our dear leader." The CCP and Xi will have to keep an upper hand with Putin and that will be a massive challenge.

Putin has a complete iron fist on Russia. He has been approved for another decade of dictatorial power just last week. Putin cannot allow China a benefit above Russia, and canot allow the CCP and Xi to have opportunity to make it look like he is a puppet. Putin at some point will trash the relationship.

This is destined to fail. 2 alphas cannot be pack members.

It's not an equal partnership, as Russia is more like a junior brother in the position of being submissive to or resisting China's influences.

China and Russia have never been comfortable together. And China has played Russia like a fiddle.

"You don't want China and Russia getting closer, I was always told that would be the worst-case scenario." -Trump, paraphrasing slightly.

Trump said this a couple of years ago in a speech and nobody listened. Look, you can't have them become closer, so you'll need to have one of them on your side unfortunately, even if Russia can't be trusted.

 retake Taiwan

Take, not retake; Taiwan has never been a part of the PRC or ruled by the CCP. It's actually never technically been a part of China.

Trump is the other one in the trio who failed to even win another term. Was hoping for a third term and dreamt of a lifetime presidency.

He has tendencies but he explicitly said the job of the US is to drive a wedge between China and Russia, something I hope Biden can accomplish.

Leaders of Russia and China tighten their grips, grow closer

The ongoing stupid warmongering against Russia is driving the Russian government closer to CCP China. It does not need to be, but it is the result of misguided Western neolib policy.

They're not leaders for life — not technically, at least. 

Xi in fact is leader for life.... the journalists should have at least informed himself a little bit before producing his article.

The ongoing stupid warmongering against Russia

Think you meant to say by Russia...

Georgia, Ukraine.

Critics silenced, imprisoned, defenestrated. LGBT people persecuted.

And make no mistake, the West's hero, Navalny is not much better than Putin.

An awful choice for the Russian people.

An awful choice for the Russian people

Please, don't worry about Russian people. When west becomes to "worry" about something usually it comes to war.

It must be a challenge for those in the global alt right who've been supportive of Trump's alliances with Russia

No one was supportive of Russia except the left that was so obsessed with the Russian collusion and which pleased China.

while at the same time demonizing China

Wait! So you’re saying after all that China put the US and world through we shouldn’t? The most outrageous thing I’ve ever heard!

both China and Russia are partners with Iran, another state many in the 'western' alt right have demonized.

Well, it would seem that they’re definitely not afraid of Biden and it seems like they won’t even pay that much attention to him. Why on earth would they?

The CCP and Xi will have to keep an upper hand with Putin and that will be a massive challenge.

China has around 10 times the population of Russia. Russia’s economy is a fraction of the size of China’s. Militarily China can massively outspend Russia. Xi has the upper hand here and the onus is more on Putin to spin this as being among equals.

I read a great description of Putin as being a very good poker player who is bluffing with a pair of twos.

Under the severe current global political tensions, China and Russia would have no other viable option than to unite and get closer. They have been ready for unwelcoming eventuality for quite some time..

Wait! So you’re saying after all that China put the US and world through we shouldn’t? The most outrageous thing I’ve ever heard!

This is the China that 45 and his family have business concerns in? Xi, who was praised by 45 for locking up the Uighurs?

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-china-detention-camp-xinjiang-2020-6

The China that 45 praised for handling the virus?

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/15/trump-china-coronavirus-188736

Xi, who was praised by 45 as he became leader for life?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trump-china-idUSKCN1GG015

China controlled the pandemic better than many other places, enhancing Xi’s position as leader

This is what Trump and Pompeo were furious about China! China has done a better job than any country pulling ahead of America in an international crisis!

These two are frankly disturbing and they are preoccupying the world.

Putin and Xin Jingpin are just the point of the iceberg,other dictators and undemocratic forces are gathering around them like Erdogan and his regime.

Politically we are already all united against them but I also believe that we can't leave the U.S. military carry this heavy load of protecting the western civilization.

I do believe that the European Union which is by culture,history and democratic thinking the natural partner and allied of the U.S.A. must form a common military force,and make such union not only the one of the banks but also with a coordinated military command.

Of course other major countries like the U.K. and even Japan should join such coalition.

We want and need peace,but at the same time the democratic world should make a firm stand against these modern dicators.

This is the China that 45 and his family have business concerns in? Xi, who was praised by 45 for locking up the Uighurs?

More like....

https://townhall.com/columnists/robertchernin/2020/10/31/the-chinese-connection-from-the-clintons-to-biden-inc-n2578961

This administration can’t even throw a pebble...

The China that 45 praised for handling the virus?

Huh?

https://nypost.com/2021/01/19/tony-blinken-trump-was-right-to-take-tougher-china-approach/

Xi, who was praised by 45 as he became leader for life?

Praising and partaking in a coup are very different realities

I do believe that the European Union which is by culture,history and democratic thinking the natural partner and allied of the U.S.A. must form a common military force,and make such union not only the one of the banks but also with a coordinated military command.

The EU is not about military misadventures. Not yet, at any rate.

We want and need peace,but at the same time the democratic world should make a firm stand against these modern dicators.

How? What would standing firm entail?

Two despicable nations, two evil and murderous despots.

Boycott them both. Every company that has dealings with them (yes - the Toyotas, Apples, TESLAS etc) deserve to fall.

Huh?

So rude. It's pardon. Perhaps try reading the link.

Praising and partaking in a coup are very different realities

45 praised Xi as he (Xi) eliminated the two term limit for Chinese Presidency.

But thanks for reminding us that 45 participated in a coup to overthrow democracy in the US.

The people who wanted to endure Russia wasn’t influencing our government are the ones who were supportive of Russia? 

The media, the Democrats, the Top echelons of the FBI....

Could you flesh this out a bit more because it doesn’t make sense to me,

It didn’t to millions of us, but now we have Biden so how is he going to be more aggressive towards Russia and China and in spite of this, why does Biden want to take money from our military budget? Isn’t that a counterproductive move and wouldn’t that make Xi and Putin happy?

and I’d really like to understand where you are coming from.

as would I......

Two despicable nations, two evil and murderous despots.

Are the actual nations despicable, as opposed to the leaders, though?

Boycott them both. Every company that has dealings with them (yes - the Toyotas, Apples, TESLAS etc) deserve to fall.

That's more like it. It will upset the capitalists, though. Many of whom rely on these mega corporations to amass personal wealth, right down to shop floor workers simply trying to feed their families.

It's a difficult one, for sure.

I have been living in Russia for 35 years. China is an hour away by car. Being engaged in business, at one time he had a firm in Hong Kong. I will speak from these positions.

Consolidation of political positions between Russia and China is taking place. The power structures of the two police regimes are very similar. The totalitarian system of China has recently been increasingly transforming into an authoritarian one, which Russia has been for 20 years. Xi Jinping and Putin have a common value system and understand each other well.

Russia's drift towards China is largely due to the inflexible policies of the West and the United States. They do not understand the principles of governance under authoritarian regimes and do not know how to work effectively with them. Russia needs China as a supplier of various goods, all industrial production in Russia has been destroyed. Today in Russian stores, on an ordinary shovel, there is a brand: Made in China.

On the part of China, no special political steps towards Russia have been made - it itself floats towards it. China needs Russia as a supplier of strategic raw materials: fertilizers, timber, metal, energy, in exchange for which China supplies beads to Russia.

Russia does not have modern military technologies - after the collapse of the USSR, 30 years have passed and all Soviet developments are already outdated. China has such developments, but it is not even close to sharing them, especially since Russia itself cannot produce anything - the overwhelming majority of military enterprises have been destroyed.

The only power that Russia has is the huge nuclear arsenal created during the years of the USSR. Even if these missiles do not fly anywhere, but explode in their mines, the damage caused will be colossal. Therefore, Putin is not afraid of any external aggression.

The rapprochement between Russia and China in reality does not create any new threat either for Japan or for South Korea. The only countries that should be wary of this union are Kazakhstan and Turkey. Both of these countries are not strongly integrated into the existing security system (although Turkey is a NATO member, and Kazakhstan periodically tries to show its super loyalty to China).

And the last thing. As a person whose ancestors were Ainu and for whom Japan is not a foreign country, I will say this: today Japan does not need to think about Russia or China. Nothing new is happening there. But relations with South Korea need to be changed - this is the closest friend and neighbor, albeit not the most ideal one. And Japan itself also needs to change - for 30 years already. how the Japanese economy stands still. Don't know what to change - ask me.

Rechkabo Kakuhoningen is the author of TRON / https://www.tron.ru/

Two despicable nations, two evil and murderous despots. 

Boycott them both. Every company that has dealings with them (yes - the Toyotas, Apples, TESLAS etc) deserve to fall.

You Aussies have supplied billions of tonnes of raw materials to China to help build their infrastructure and military.

Why don’t you ever call this out?

Are the actual nations despicable, as opposed to the leaders, though?

Depends on your point of view.

That's more like it. It will upset the capitalists, though.

It should.

Many of whom rely on these mega corporations to amass personal wealth, right down to shop floor workers simply trying to feed their families.

And the millions of people that depend on the job creators to provide for them a decent wage.

It should.

Glad to see you're in favor of boycotts (aka cancel culture) as you seemed to be very much against such a thing, oh, last week.

I guess we're at war with Eastasia. We have always been at war with Eastasia.

That's more like it. It will upset the capitalists, though. Many of whom rely on these mega corporations to amass personal wealth, right down to shop floor workers simply trying to feed their families.

It's a difficult one, for sure.

The foot soldiers in these large corporations will be the first to suffer. They’ll bear the brunt of the fallout from boycotts, not the upper echelons.

Tragic to see people lose their livelihoods.

Dismantle the superstates.

All of them.

Agree, except strike the modifier "super".

HereticToday  12:42 pm JST

I do believe that the European Union which is by culture,history and democratic thinking the natural partner and allied of the U.S.A. must form a common military force,and make such union not only the one of the banks but also with a coordinated military command.

The EU is not about military misadventures. Not yet, at any rate.

We want and need peace,but at the same time the democratic world should make a firm stand against these modern dicators.

How? What would standing firm entail?

And what do you want me to reply to a person so politicized and with a sharp tongue?

My statement and thinking remains,and even if you won’t agree with it there is no need to play the preacher here.

The foot soldiers in these large corporations will be the first to suffer. They’ll bear the brunt of the fallout from boycotts, not the upper echelons.

Indeed. It's why the workers must wrest away the means of production from the boss class.

Tragic to see people lose their livelihoods.

Yes. Also tragic to see people lose their lives, their freedoms and lands to the various regimes.

Finally.

In the context of Biden and China

Admitting that one doesn't know where one is coming from.

Biden doesn’t, that’s the point.

Now, to clarify - is that spatial/geographical/political or a combination of?

I just answered.

And what do you want me to reply to a person so politicized and with a sharp tongue?

I take it for granted that eveyone commenting here is politicized. I'd be interested in hearing how this militarized EU would work, how it would transition from an economic trading block to what you suggest?

My statement and thinking remains,and even if you won’t agree with it there is no need to play the preacher here.

Again, I'm interested in what you mean by standing firm. Not sure how asking for an elaboration is somehow preachy...

I’m sorry, but this doesn’t explain how the people that wanted to ensure Russia wasn’t influencing our government are the ones who were supportive of Russia.

I did explain

Take your time

I did take my time and the conclusion is, Biden is a sucker for the Xi and Putin. How he will handle this is sadly not something to rave home about. Pathetic.

The foot soldiers in these large corporations will be the first to suffer. They’ll bear the brunt of the fallout from boycotts, not the upper echelons.

Indeed. It's why the workers must wrest away the means of production from the boss class.

Not really on the horizon, is it? They’ll just be thrown out of work.

Which countries should we boycott? I’ve read and heard people believing in boycotts for almost every major nation or smaller nations on earth for reasons including mass murder, invasions, terrorism, supporting terrorism, supplying arms, supplying raw materials to despotic regimes, animal cruelty, using child labour, human trafficking, executing/flogging/imprisoning LGBT people, treating women as property, assorted other human rights abuses...

It’s quite a rogue’s gallery out there.

I know many of you guys don't like Putin and "Xi JinPing" but both leaders were not as uncompetences like Biden and Blinken, right? America is begging a compromise with a theocracy like Iran, that just reflected her foolishness!

I did take my time and the conclusion is, Biden is a sucker for the Xi and Putin. How he will handle this is sadly not something to rave home about. Pathetic.

Why has Biden taken an aggressive stance towards Russia, including sanctions for Putin imprisoning his opponent (vile though Nalveny is) when Trump kissed Putin's boots and said that, actually, he trusts Putin and not the US intelligence services?

It's because Putin had Trump in the palm of is hand. Like a fat little kumquat.

Xi Jinping: I get the control of Miyako Straight, while you probably get Hokkaido. Deal?

Putin: Deal.

You are good at twisting my words don’t you?

When did I state to militarize more the European Union as it is?

Do not put words in my mouth that I didn’t say.

Just going by what you posted. Apologies if asking for clarification is a cause for upset.

Maybe you missed what happened in Crimea and still in Donesk?

Er, no. I'm quite outspoken about Russia's expansionism and stirring things up in neighboring countries.

No more I need to explain to you about it.

Then I must reluctantly take a hard pass on your current suggestions for dealing with Putin and Xi.

I’m not American and the U.S. if far from be perfect,but it still remains the greater modern democracy in the world.

And if you start to throw in what happened with Iraq then I could throw in what happened with the Soviets in Afghanistan etc.

With leaders like the Chinese one or the Russian one if you try to protest against them you end up like Navalny in a Gulag.

Doesn’t seem to happen in the States such thing to the opposition.

So yes,as a western European I rather stick with the U.S. despite it’s imperfection than side with criminals like Putin and Xin.

No, you didn’t.

I really did, let’s stay focus on the current President.

Your reply was about the FBI and media, not how you came to the conclusion that the people that wanted to ensure Russia wasn’t influencing our government are the ones who were supportive of Russia.

To now bring in and support the new administration, they did.

.

Pic of Tweedle-Dumb and Tweedle-Dumber.

With leaders like the Chinese one or the Russian one if you try to protest against them you end up like Navalny in a Gulag.

Of course.

I've pointed out many times the amount of critics, journalists, opponents who end up dead or disappeared, or out the window.

It shouldn't happen anywhere.

I just don't believe that Navalny is the saviour (in Russia's case) that is needed.

Toasted Heretic

I just don't believe that Navalny is the saviour (in Russia's case) that is needed.

Neither do I and in this I can agree with you,but the point is that any kind of opposition in Russia ends up poisoned or killed,or just disappearing in some obscure prison.

And this is just not right,of course China got it’s awful methods as well.