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Gadhafi forces, foreign mercenaries strike back at revolt near Tripoli

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Wow, using warplanes, tanks, anti-aircraft missles and automatic weapons against his own people. Who said Gadhafi had changed? Sounds like a play right out of Hussein's old playbook. Hope he doesn't have any mustard gas.

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So much for religious sanctuary...

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WordStar:

" So much for religious sanctuary... "

Considering that Yussuf Al-Quaradafi has called on all muslims to kill Gaddafi and establish a Shariah Caliphate in Libya, I don´t think you want to start arguing that a mosque is a non-political "sanctuary"....

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Libya -- North Korea with oil.

This nut is no better than Kim Jong Il. Check it out on the net.

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President Barack Obama said the suffering in Libya “is outrageous and it is unacceptable,” and he directed his administration to prepare a full range of options, including possible sanctions that could freeze the assets and ban travel to the U.S. by Libyan officials.

That will teach them Libyan officials not to book those darn Las Vegas vacations so far in advance.

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@WilliB

Considering that Yussuf Al-Quaradafi has called on all muslims to kill Gaddafi and establish a Shariah Caliphate in Libya, I don´t think you want to start arguing that a mosque is a non-political "sanctuary"

Where does the article link those who took refuge in the mosque with Al-Quaradafi's call?

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Gadhafi is a true a-hole.

Bless the people of Lybia.

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Tripoli is experiencing a mass exodus. The foreign residents - the engineers, business owners, and construction workers - have fled. The entire east of the country has revolted, and Gadhafi grip doesn't extend all that far in the west - Tripoli's suburbs are a warzone. At this point, Gadhafi is king of an empty city - a city without citizens, fuel, or even food.

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...But as long as Obama loves him it's all ok

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yanee - ...But as long as Obama loves him it's all ok

What does Obama have to do with any of this? Gadhafi is having a problem with the Libyans and Libyans have a problem with Gadhafi government. Talk to the UN, isn't this why it was created in the first place?

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Gadhafi blamed Osama bin Laden for the upheaval

The enemy of my enemy is my friend, right?

France, Italy and the UK should send troops to help their new friend. Haa!

Remember when Gadhafi called for a jihad on Switzerland a couple of years ago? No? But yeah... he has oil. Sorry had...

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The problems in Libya will have major desruptions in oil export to Europe. Europe receives over 85 percent of Libya's crude exports and that's causing uneasiness. The southern European governments have invested significantly to decrease dependence on supplies from Russia and Iran. Now, Europe has to choose between becoming more dependent on Russia or the Middle East, or both.

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Interesting that Kadafi blames drugged youth and al kaida for the trouble, but has not blamed the usual suspect: the US.

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Drugs, Bin Laden, and why am I not being treated like the Queen of England, she has been in power longer than me. I mean, not in power like I am not in power. Lunatic. Also, doing the "speech" by phone and not TV makes it look like he is losing control quickly and is in hiding.

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yanee at 06:58 AM JST - 25th February

...But as long as Obama loves him it's all ok

Nice Try!

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yanee: "...But as long as Obama loves him it's all ok"

WHAT?? This you need to explain, because I can't see any indication in reality that Obama has any love for Gadhafi. What is the source of this thought mate?

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@WilliB

Considering that Yussuf Al-Quaradafi has called on all muslims to kill Gaddafi and establish a Shariah Caliphate in Libya, I don´t think you want to start arguing that a mosque is a non-political "sanctuary"....

What does that have to do with anything? There you are on about Shariah again. Explain how it's different from the legal system currently in Libya. Except maybe then there wouldn't be a leader who deems it acceptable to bomb his own citizens.

I think you don't know anything about Shariah other than what you watch on TV or read on a blog. You certainly are fearful of this mysterious Shariah.

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Now Libya got the jihad too. The radical Islamists downloaded it from Egypt.

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2011 will be a year of revolution.

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2011 will be a year of revolution.

I thought it was Democracy?

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I think you don't know anything about Shariah other than what you watch on TV or read on a blog.

As opposed to you who has this week traveled to Libya?

WilliB was right on. These dudes are getting the jihad, and the Muslim Brotherhood is exposed.

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It will take revolutions to get democracy in places that have never had it and in places where it was taken away.

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pointofview - so you agree the invasion of Iraq was a good thing?

Why should we care if the ME is a democracy? All we should care about is are they with or against us. Simple. In all other matters, let them do whatever the heck they want in their own country.

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Anyone at home in the office, Mr. Kan? Events are happening, and they are going to affect car production, fuel and food prices in Japan, and security. Obama is talking to France, Italy and Great Britain. Is there any chance he will call the leader of the THIRD economy of the world? Maybe the phone signal is busy because Kan needs to find something to keep him busy.

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Man. I don't think anyone can truly say that the invasion of Iraq was a good thing. First of all that assumes that Iraq would never have changed her government on her own. It also discounts all the lives on all sides lost in that pointless conflict.

"Why should we care if the ME is a democracy? All we should care about is are they with or against us."

This is a particularly dark point of view Man. Even for you.

Why should we care? 1. The world is now very interconnected and the problems of one region have very real and immediate impact upon other parts of the world. 2. If #1 was not enough for you. Then there is the proper management and protection of oil resources to consider. Modern enlightened governments are likely to do a far better job managing these resources than unpredictable despots. 3. In case the first two fail to move you. Humanitarian considerations. We should hope for people to find and establish governments that meet their needs and act upon a mandate by the public. Whether western democracy or some other form of governance, this is generally good for the people.

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As for WilliB. He/she seems terrified of the prospect of lurking Islamic Fundamentalists waiting to take over all of the MidEast in some bid for global Jihad. While entertainingly similar to crap spouted on Fox TV, this has very little founding in reality.

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Mercenaries didn't solve the problem in the American Revolution period. However, nobody can discount their desire to do anything to improve their families' situation. It is a sad situation, and Japan needs to present its position on the situation.

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I think you don't know anything about Shariah other than what you watch on TV or read on a blog." I have an Iranian-Australian nanny whose mother has told me all I need to know about Shariah. I work with several Iranians who've confirmed what she's said. You may have studied and may have bought into it, fine. Go to Iran and live under it but don't come here and defend it and force it on us. I can not believe for my whole life, I was told how we must keep religion and government separate and now those same very teachers are promoting such an idea. I really hope you don't view yourself as a liberal.

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@manfromamerica

As opposed to you who has this week traveled to Libya?

I've lived in Muslim countries before, so I know some about Shariah. Enough that I don't have an irrational fear of it, at least.

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I've lived in Muslim countries before, so I know some about Shariah. Enough that I don't have an irrational fear of it, at least." And if you did fear, you'd better keep your mouth shut. Or do you believe you're the only one on this board who's been to muslim countries?

We don't want it. Do you need us to vote on it or do you wish to just implement it at will?

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tkoind2- The US is not the parent of the world. Let their own people choose what they want. However, if you attack us, we will hit back.

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smorkian - Sharia is irrelevant. Who fears it? Sharia means nothing. You should read my posts. The ME people can do whatever they want, it's not our business. However, if they decide to get all jihaddy, then they will have to answer.

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No. I`m in favour of improving the standards in societies across the globe but not by invading them. Situations like in Libya at the moment are cause for concern.

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And if you did fear, you'd better keep your mouth shut. Or do you believe you're the only one on this board who's been to muslim countries? We don't want it. Do you need us to vote on it or do you wish to just implement it at will?

Chill, dude, I wasn't attacking you. Nobody's talking about Shariah in Japan, are we? We're talking about it in LIBYA, a country that already follows Shariah law. Who is this "we" that doesn't want it? Observant Muslims probably do want it.

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smorkian - Sharia is irrelevant. Who fears it? Sharia means nothing.

WilliB fears it. He brings it up in every ME thread. It seems many posters use it as a byword for some sort of moral armageddon.

The ME people can do whatever they want, it's not our business. However, if they decide to get all jihaddy, then they will have to answer.

What does "get jihaddy" mean? If you mean terrorist groups attacking foreign countries then sure something must be done by the countries affected. But that's a very far stretch to make from the simple case of ME countries such as Libya and Egypt overthrowing their long time dictators.

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smorkian -

Sharia means nothing. Let them have Sharia law, code of Hammurabi, whatever - they can do whatever they want. It's their country.

About jihading- When these countries google a jihad, they expose themselves to a risk. Already Hamas, Hezbollah, and Egypt have been jihaded.

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How difficult is it to send a Predator drone over Libya and fly a Hellfire into Gadhafi's palace?

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Chill, dude, I wasn't attacking you. Nobody's talking about Shariah in Japan, are we? We're talking about it in LIBYA, a country that already follows Shariah law. Who is this "we" that doesn't want it? Observant Muslims probably do want it." yeah well, the subject has come up a lot, including using it in a case in New Jersey and another in Arizona. As for observant Muslims probably do want it, well, why immigrate to a place that doesn't have it? What if I said that all school kids need to learn and study santaria? Would you be ok with that?

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Man: "The US is not the parent of the world. Let their own people choose what they want."

Could not have said it better myself. You and I agree on this aspect. The US and other nations should offer aid and friendship to the new government and condemn violence by the states against their people. Beyond that we should wait and be patient with the outcome.

But as for WilliB's fear of a united states of Islami Extremism, this is just not reality. The right called for change in the MidEast and now it is getting it. But now they are screaming fear over extremism.

Well folks, you got your wish, the people of the ME are rising up. Now the hard part comes, and that is letting them determine their own destiny and offering our friendship once they do.

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Skip. The reason people immigrate is to find work and better their lives. The reason people wish for a certain form of law depends upon their belief system and is not mutually exclusive from wanting to have a decent economic life.

I am non-religious so of course I don't want any religious law ruling over me. In the ME Turkey has the right idea. A secular state that runs things separation from religion. I believe this is the only viable model for the ME to achieve what the people want, and that is greater prosperity.

But we don't have the right to dictate that. They need to decide and if Sharia is what they want, then we still need to offer our friendship. But I strongly expect that Sharia will take a back seat to jobs and prospects for a better future.

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What a mess! I hope they help Gadhafi become a martyr real soon! Burn in hell!

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tkoind2 -

Could not have said it better myself. You and I agree on this aspect. The US and other nations should offer aid and friendship to the new government and condemn violence by the states against their people. Beyond that we should wait and be patient with the outcome.

Well said!

But we don't have the right to dictate that. They need to decide and if Sharia is what they want, then we still need to offer our friendship. But I strongly expect that Sharia will take a back seat to jobs and prospects for a better future.

once again, Well said!

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The reason people immigrate is to find work and better their lives. The reason people wish for a certain form of law depends upon their belief system and is not mutually exclusive from wanting to have a decent economic life.

I am non-religious so of course I don't want any religious law ruling over me. In the ME Turkey has the right idea. A secular state that runs things separation from religion. I believe this is the only viable model for the ME to achieve what the people want, and that is greater prosperity.

But we don't have the right to dictate that. They need to decide and if Sharia is what they want, then we still need to offer our friendship. But I strongly expect that Sharia will take a back seat to jobs and prospects for a better future.

Good stuff, tkoind2.

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Sharia? -> go for it, it's your country.

Get the jihad? -> bad move.

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Skipthesong:

" Nobody's talking about Shariah in Japan, are we? We're talking about it in LIBYA, a country that already follows Shariah law. "

No, it doesn`t. While Ghaddafi is a nutty dictator, he does not follow Shariah to the latter. Like Saddam and other previous and current Arab dictators, he is mostly concernd about his own regime, but keeps society rather secular. Just look at the women, that is always a good indicator.

Complete Sharia, which Al Quaeda et al want, is different. Look at Afghanistan and Somalia to see what they have in mind.

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williB -

you're too much of a humanitarian. it's not our job to "fix them". If and when they get sick of Sharia, then they'll jihad it.

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tokind2:

" In the ME Turkey has the right idea. A secular state that runs things separation from religion. I believe this is the only viable model for the ME to achieve what the people want, and that is greater prosperity. "

Turkey has Kemalism, which keeps Shariah at bay. It was established by Kemal Atatürk, a secular dictator, who FORCED Turkey away from Shariah and into modernity. The AKP in Turkey, elected by a majority, is trying to gradually dismantle Kemalism and turn Turkey into a Shariah theocracy.

Your example illustrates the dilemma which is common to the whole ME: Where we see modernity, it is always enforced by an authoritarian leader. A muslim population, given free elections, will almost inevitably vote islamist parties into power.

Your example demonstrates why the current situation in Libya etc. is so complicated and why the simplistic cheering for "democracy" is naive.

Thanks for the illustration.

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Complete Sharia, which Al Quaeda et al want, is different. Look at Afghanistan and Somalia to see what they have in mind.

Nobody but the tiny band of Al Qaeda types wants that. It's like saying American Christians want to live like the polygamist fundamentalists in Utah.

A muslim population, given free elections, will almost inevitably vote islamist parties into power.

BZZZZ! Try Indonesia or Malaysia. Unless you have very liberal definition of "Islamist", but apparently you think "islamist" means they all want Somali-style dystopia.

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