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Gadhafi's vows to fight to 'last drop of blood'

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"die a martyr"

How about just die?

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Here is hoping the people of Libya do their best to ensure Gadaffi's loss of blood.

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He could have been in Venezuela or Cuba by now, smoking Montecristos.

Now, after firing upon his own people with fighter-jets, this guy is going to be roasted on a shawarma spit.

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Where is Obama and Kan on this issue? If it is a matter of not wanting to encourage the North Koreans or Chinese to protest, then they have succeeded. Americans are finding it appalling that Mr. Obama has not condemned Gadhafi's arrogance. Perhaps Kan will show some leadership on this terrible event.

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"Where is Obama and Kan on this issue?"

Precisely where they need to be, critical of the actions of Gadaffi and silent on their position on who needs to take power in Libiya. The world must try to get Libiya right. Non-interference is the right answer. Anything the US does could undermine the will of the people and the world perception of their revolution. The people in Libiya have to achieve this change on their own and grant Gadaffi his wish to die for his state.

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Where is Obama and Kan on this issue?

One would have to be pretty naive to believe that any tsk-tsk statements by the heads of foreign states are going to have any significant impact on these events.

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die a martyr

I think he probably got the first part correct.

The people in Libiya have to achieve this change on their own and grant Gadaffi his wish to die for his state.

I agree.

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He better hope he doesn't get caught, cause they will string him up

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Throwing shoes is stupid, because you have to walk home and buy new ones. Plus with broken glass and rocks, it must be a tough walk home. I would never throw my Doc Martens at a screen showing someone I do not like.

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Haruka-san. I agree, never waste a good pair of Docs. But I would certainly toss my boring work shoes given the right opportunity. ;)

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Sarge:

" "die a martyr" How about just die? "

It is an islamic reference, of course. Martyrs fight for got. And they go to heaven. He is establishing his legitimacy here. You can not ignore context when you read political speeches from Arab leaders.

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WilliB. He can claim whatever he wants. I know people in Tokyo who claim to be mystical reincarnations of aliens. So yes he is trying to claim legitimacy. But let's face it, after his actions this week, few people in Libiya will agree that he is the legitimate leader. And even fewer still would see his demise as anything other than the death of a tyrant.

You cannot read too much into these speeches either.

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Libya's Gadhafi vows to fight on, die a martyr

go ahead. Frankly, don't care what happens there, as long as the regime in power is not aggressive towards the US. It's not the US' job to be the world's Santa Claus for democracy.

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tokind2:

" So yes he is trying to claim legitimacy. But let's face it, after his actions this week, few people in Libiya will agree that he is the legitimate leader. And even fewer still would see his demise as anything other than the death of a tyrant. "

And how do you know that? He has his power base, and his detractors. How do people in Tokyo know exactly who in Libya is loyal to who? To claim that is not much different from claiming to be reincarnations of aliens.

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WilliB. Are you reading the news? Key people in his regime are defecting to the protester's cause. There are indications that his governing structure is collapsing. So that is how I know.

As for how do people know. I like to base my opinions in this regard on the information flowing out of the country. Compare news sources from a half dozen agencies and you can easily see a consensus with this topic.

My money is on the people in Libiya. Where is yours?

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It is therefore acceptable for the president of the United States to say that Mubarak is on his way out but to stay silent about an insane Gadhafi? Hello, Kan. The price of oil is going up, and the Japanese economy will suffer even more.

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A martyr to... what, exactly?

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This dictator has to go before shedding more blood. He is one of the worst criminal against humanity.

As usual, Russia and China are reluctant to agree with UN resolution. I still do not understand why Russia and China are sitting on UN Security Concile seats. How can we remove them? Any idea?

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noriyosan73. Egypt is a little different. There was a standing relationship between Mubarak and the US which made comments far more acceptable in the eyes of the Arabic world.

Gadaffi has no such relationship. The US and Japan are better to condemn the violence, which they have been doing. And to stay out of calling for Gadaffi to step down, which they should not do.

Again the people of Libiya need to make this happen on their own.

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One more thought. For Revolution to be legitimate, the people of a country must be the catalyst, the protest, the mechanism of change and the decision makers for the future.

Outside involvement in any of these areas poses a risk to the legitimacy of the revolution.

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"I still do not understand why Russia and China are sitting on UN Security Concile seats. How can we remove them? Any idea?"

There is no chance of removing them. Especially now that both are becoming significant economic powers as well as military ones.

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I still do not understand why Russia and China are sitting on UN Security Concile seats.

Thank FDR and Dems for that.

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tkoind2: The world must try to get Libiya right. Non-interference is the right answer.

I think the world, especially Obama, did a pretty good job with Egypt, which included working with them behind the scenes and trying to get Mubarak to step down with a coordinated transition. Without outside influence we could still have him in power with a lot more blood and promises of more to come. Or, put another way, we could have what's happening in Libya.

I guess you could say that Libya is playing out exactly as you think it should. No influence or meddling and the very real chance of a very bloody civil war.

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When Saudi Arabia goes, that'll be the end of America's cheap oil. America depends on tyranny for a cheap fillup. Ironic indeed that the people rise up for freedom take away America's ability to drive. If only people were interested in less tyranny and fewer dictatorships from the start. And also Florida cancelled the trains. Timing will be impeccable.

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Don't you mean China's cheap oil?

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globalwatcher

you don't remove anyone from the SC. That's the point of having it, that's its design. It forces no one to get their own way except through dealing and compromise. A difficult concept for America, I know.

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Triumvere at 12:20 PM JST - 23rd February A martyr to... what, exactly?

good question

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Junnama

no, since China is the reason oil is so high in price. The American economy has been in comparison stagnant so its not America that's driving the energy prices. China can afford it, America can't.

Look to China to continue to out bid others for the energy resources. The market is the winner.

This affects everyone of course, so the best places will be where there is public transit powered by local electricity generation, as that is not imported, thus locally priced. (depending on how the electricity is generated though)

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Australian floods represent 40% of the coal coke needed to run many power stations, so I wonder how that will affect worldwide as well. China is their largest buyer too, so look to more interest in energy in the Middle East from China, not less, as you implied.

Also the Middle East isn't as far away from China. They're holding a lot of cards.

Best thing to invest in resilience; geothermal and solar thermal along with local electrical generation in whatever form. It has to happen sometime. Might as well be now with the writing on the wall, not a few years from now when it really is too late to do anything about it.

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Americas economy may seem stagnant, but it grows at about 3% annual right now. China needs to grow at 9% to produce similar growth. They can afford oil as well as China :)

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I work with a number of Libyans and the general consensus among them is that having Gadhafi as a leader was no real problem for them, until he brought in foreign mercenaries to open file on the Libyan people. Now they seem very, very keen to see him go - and by go I don't mean leave, but go as in 6 foot under. It's not good seeing people you work with unable to concentrate and constantly check back to the news websites, worried about family back home.

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America needs to do the right thing and help daffy Gadhafi become a martyr real soon. The French need to feel like real fools for giving this guy the royal red carpet treatment, they should be ashamed of themselves, at least Sarkozy should apologize, they just sold a few months back some nice, shiny brand new jet fighters to the Libyians, maybe the same ones used to go bomb and kill the innocent Libyans that were proteting? RIP innocent Libyans and may daffy Gadhafi BIN, meaning BURN IN HELL!!!

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I work with a number of Libyans and the general consensus among them is that having Gadhafi as a leader was no real problem for them, until he brought in foreign mercenaries to open file on the Libyan people.

I agree. This will prove to be his downfall. He crossed a line that now cannot be reversed.

There does not, as yet, seem to be a clear political block to replace him.

Basically there are three choices:

1) Gadhafi manages to squash this somehow, which seems less and less likely.

2)The army takes over as they have in Egypt.

3) The army's loyalties are split, which would lead to civil war.

Of these choices, I choose 2.

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superlib. The only reason Obama could work with Egypt was the standing relationship with Mubarak. That just does not exist with Libiya. Are you really expecting the US to have a clear hand in getting Gadaffi to stand down? Be realistic. It won't happen.

I am simply taking a realistic look at Libiya. If you want to risk extremism in Libiya, then make it clear that the US is behind the uprising or too sympathetic with any given faction.

I think we have to let Libiya sort this out on their own. Even it that means civil war. Afterall even my home country had to sort itself out with a bloody civil war to resolve her destiny. It isn't what anyone wants, but it could well be unavoidable.

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As for oil. We are past peak in any case. The cost of oil will trend up regardless of what happens. Revolution in Saudi Arabia may hasten the process. But then again, I think revolution there is not likely.

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I think we have to let Libiya sort this out on their own. Even it that means civil war.

I think you have a interesting point here. However, there is always the possibility that whatever results will blame the West for not helping to squash Gadhafi. Even having said that, I also think a basic hands off approach is the best option.

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Years ago a cartoonist for the Washington Post, I think it was, used to refer to him as "Ghadaffy Duck." He's certainly earning the sobriquet.

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I still do not understand why Russia and China are sitting on UN Security Concile seats. How can we remove them? Any idea?

Why would you take them off the council? The idea is to have the most powerful nations on there. If you're just going to have "The council that agrees with the US" then there's not much need for a council in the first place.

As for oil. We are past peak in any case.

There is exactly zero convergence on the models for oil reserves. There's new major finds like Lula in Brazil every year. Technologies for exploration and recovery improve. Countries like Libya, Iran, and Iraq have barely tapped their capacities.

Look, Libya is important from a human standpoint and an economic standpoint. The world doesn't need Gadhafi torching his oil fields any more than his people need his gunships shooting at them. He needs to go. He needed to go 30 years ago.

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I wish the answers were simple. Good guys go in, take out the bad guys and leave the good people to get on with their own destiny. But that just isn't reality.

I am sure there are significant factions who will compete for power, as would be the case anywhere. The key, I believe, is to be critical of Gadaffi's violence, and that of any other group attacking civilians. Then at the same time encouraging that the people of Libiya be empowered and supported by the global community in determining their future.

This means provide aid as soon as it is required from a variety of sources. And it means offering a helping hand to any newly established government. Even if we are not 100% happy with who the people put in power.

It is a rare chance to get these things right in the post colonial world. And perhaps make up for some of the past mistakes.

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This just in: 'Gaddafi orders explosion of Libya's oil pipelines'

Maybe it's time for the USMC to return to the shores of Tripoli...

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Libya is only a small player in world oil, making up less than 2% of world oil production. The rising price of oil is more linked to Bahrain and the fear that the unrest there will spill over into Saudi Arabia, which is the world's biggest oil supplier.

As for the role of foreign leaders such as Obama, it is really the Italians who are in the best position to influence events in Libya, so if the US and others want to do anything, then they should be working through the Italian Prime Minister.

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The rising price of oil is more linked to Bahrain and the fear that the unrest there will spill over into Saudi Arabia, which is the world's biggest oil supplier.

No, it's a direct link to the violence in Libya. It really, really spiked since last week.

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Advice of the day: If you get a spec to call you to buy oil buy it!!!!! Don't mean to be inconsiderate, but there's nothing I can do.

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No, it's a direct link to the violence in Libya. It really, really spiked since last week.

Which is also when the Bahrain protesters were shot at and some killed. The news here covered this exact question and the experts they interviewed clearly said the spike in oil prices is a result of the general unrest in the entire region, but mostly from the fear that it may move into Saudi Arabia. OPEC has already said they have more than enough capacity to cover Libya's world oil contribution, but is Saudi Arabian oil is disrupted, then we'll have real issues.

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Which is also when the Bahrain protesters were shot at and some killed.

I talk to people in the industry every day - people aren't worried about Bahrain but they are REALLY worried about Libya. Libya's an OPEC country. In Libya they are disrupting the exports, all expats are leaving including major operators like ENI. It's business as usual in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Algeria...

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This just in: 'Gaddafi orders explosion of Libya's oil pipelines'

Where are the howls of indignation from the eco-extremist crowd???

Quadaffi orders his Russian and French-made fighters to fire on civilian crowds in Tripoli.

Where is the outrage??

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It's either Gadhafi or chaos, lol.

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Where are the howls of indignation from the eco-extremist crowd???

I think there's larger issues, dude.

Quadaffi orders his Russian and French-made fighters to fire on civilian crowds in Tripoli. Where is the outrage??

It's quite literally everywhere on the internet. There's thousands and thousands of articles of outrage on the internet over this right now. Thousands. Don't try to stir the pot when it's already boiling!

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tkoind2: The only reason Obama could work with Egypt was the standing relationship with Mubarak. That just does not exist with Libiya. Are you really expecting the US to have a clear hand in getting Gadaffi to stand down? Be realistic. It won't happen.

Thanks for explaining things to me. And congrats for formulating a statement that completely avoids your "never get involved" stance.

If you want to risk extremism in Libiya, then make it clear that the US is behind the uprising or too sympathetic with any given faction.

Who are you talking to?

I think we have to let Libiya sort this out on their own. Even it that means civil war. Afterall even my home country had to sort itself out with a bloody civil war to resolve her destiny. It isn't what anyone wants, but it could well be unavoidable.

Then you've just created a lot of enemies and future blowback. I thought you were against those things.

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Gas has hit 4$/gallon in the US.Highest since 08 - when the media was all but implying the president is the reason in such cases.

State desperate to get US citizens out OF Libya so Kahdafee can't use em as hostages.

but Obama - who is a leader! - can't comment just now because of "scheduling issues" .

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Gas has hit 4$/gallon in the US.Highest since 08 - when the media was all but implying the president is the reason in such cases.

No they weren't. You're making that up.

State desperate to get US citizens out OF Libya so Kahdafee can't use em as hostages. but Obama - who is a leader! - can't comment just now because of "scheduling issues" .

This has nothing to do with the US. It certainly has nothing to do with Obama. It would have nothing to do with Bush were he still president. The world does not revolve around the US.

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Gadhafi's vows to fight to 'last drop of blood'

His blood for our oil. Sounds good to me.

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