Lincoln ranked best president by historians

Lincoln. The guy who took a big crap on state's rights and advocated and got a very bloody shotgun wedding. Thanks Lincoln for the Hotel California style of Union, "you can check in any time you like, but you can never leave!"

And where the hell is our ethnic cleansing president, Andrew Jackson? How did that miserable excuse for a human being not make it to the worst list?

I agree. Lincoln is an awful choice. Jackson, despite his flaws, would have been a better choice. He was able to keep the Union together without going to war and causing the death of hundreds of thousands of Americans.

But how in the hell does Bill Clinton make it to 15? His first two years of rule were so unbearable that he lost the Congress to the Republicans for the first time in 40 years and initiated the countries worst terrorist attack to date by allowing the murder of almost 90 women and children at Waco by a limp wristed government agency that was trying to get a budget boost.

And where is Jefferson? Where is Polk? Where is Madison?

You can already tell from his first few weeks that Obama is going to end up in the 30's or 40's.

Too bad Grover Cleveland slipped down the ranks this time - the only man so awesome they voted him in on 2 non-consecutive occasions.

Likeitis: "And where the hell is... Andrew Jackson"

In this very article it lists him, if it's in order, as second-to-worst after James Buchanan.

"Bush scored lowest in international relations, where he was ranked 41st, and in economic management, where he was ranked 40th. His highest ranking, 24th, was in the category of pursuing equal justice for all. He was ranked 25th in crisis leadership and vision and agenda setting."

Sounds about right. Hopefully bush supporters won't come on here and simply dismiss this as rubbish since they don't like the results. If it's any consolation, they should note that indeed there is a chance in the future bush may be regarded in a warmer light and as slightly better than 7th from the bottom. Of course, he could also end up being at the absolute bottom, but that has yet to be seen. I definitely agree on the international relations and economic management (something very relevant to most of today's discussions).

As to Lincoln being top, I disagree completely. He accomplished some amazing things, but he still does not deserve to be top.

In this very article it lists him, if it's in order, as second-to-worst after James Buchanan.

Hehe, I nearly made that same mistake myself. Actually, they list Andrew Johnson (1865–1869), a different man. He has been accused of botching reconstruction after the U.S. Civil War. It was supposed to be a happy marriage after the shotgun wedding you know, and Johnson botched it. Anyway Jackson was 1829–1837.

Too bad Grover Cleveland slipped down the ranks this time - the only man so awesome they voted him in on 2 non-consecutive occasions.

Interesting point. He is also on the 1000 dollar bill.

And where is Jefferson? Where is Polk? Where is Madison?

People seem to mainly remember presidents if something fantastic happened during their term. They get credit if it turns out well. They get demerits if it didn't. And neither their prior nor post-event actions seem to have any bearing on the ranking, which is most unfair.

For example, Jimmy Carter gets hell on these boards often, as if he held a gun to the head of OPEC to make them raise oil prices, or as if the hostage crisis in Iran was not only his idea, but he personally crashed the planes meant to rescue them. Ronald Reagan gets massive praise, as if he personally walked over to the Soviet Union, and kicked the barstool out from under him.

If I were going to blindly pat a president on the back, it would be by seeing that nothing seriously bad happened during his presidency. So Jefferson ranks high with me too. He did nothing wrong, and nothing really wrong happened on his watch.

Polk? Cannot attach anything to his name at all from the top of my head. That makes me think he was grand!

He has been accused of botching reconstruction after the U.S. Civil War.

Reconstruction was just a wild-ass looting of the South. Anyone who reads about the lack of fiscal discipline and corruption of the black/Yankee postwar legislatures understands why reconstruction failed. But in this era of Obama, everyone is expected to recite the party line and look at political experiments like Zimbabwe as if they are great successes and wonders of diversity and racial progress. When they are really abject failures.

Polk is responsible for expanding the United States to the West Coast by winning the Southwest from Mexico and advancing to the Northwest. He pretty much doubled the land mass of the USA. He is usually ranked in the top 10. And he did it all in one term. He also skipped his inauguration party, saying it was a frivolous waste of time.

Ronald Reagan did more than defeat the Russians. He rebuilt the economy, slashed taxes, crushed communism in the Western hemisphere, appointed some great justices to the supreme court, etc. It's a long list.

Carter is a so-so president. He lost Nicaragua to the communists, he let the country go into hyper-inflation, he negotiated peace between the Israelis and the Egyptians (for which American Jews turned on him during his reelection campaign - especially NY mayor Koch), but he was certainly a decent man. A rare Christian that walks the talk.

I thought Jefferson formed the US navy and sent them to Africa to fight the Barbary pirates. So his wasn't an entirely violence free reign. He was definitely a great president. In my top 5.

It is fascinating how a country that prides itself in freedom can place so much stock in 1 person. I think it is difficult to compare modern presidents with those of the past as attitudes to leadership have changed. Surveys show that the majority of Americans want to follow and not have to think about things so much, I don't think it used to be like that even 100 years ago when I believe people expected the president to follow the will of the people.

Well, mere days ago there was an article about Obama talking about Lincoln, and all I saw were raves about the Civil War Prez. So I expected to see some attacks on my view of the man. Sort of disappointed nobody is doing that.

Well, it seems the one thing all of us can agree on in this thread is that these 65 historians must experts on some sort of history that is not related to the United States of America, maybe Ancient Egypt or something, because their list is extremely screwed up.

I thought Jefferson formed the US navy and sent them to Africa to fight the Barbary pirates.

I think you are right! I should have remembered that. He was the guy who laid the groundwork for how the Taliban should have been dealt with. But we had GWB, the moron who though he knew better than TJ.

Carter is a so-so president. He lost Nicaragua to the communists,

Its an interesting comment, because i don't think Americans should view Nicaragua as theirs to lose.

Reconstruction was just a wild-ass looting of the South.

Yeah, basically what happens after a shotgun wedding is classified as rape.

If you are voting for Presidents that almost destoyed a country:

Historians have always liked Abe.

"Bush scored lowest in international relations, where he was ranked 41st"

They forgot to score him on taking measures to protect American citizens. Maybe they were afraid he might come in first in that category.

I learned a couple things recently about Abraham Lincoln that I found fascinating. Apparently, he suffered from severe depression but was able to harness his "melancholy" and use it to bring great focus and clarity to the evils of slavery. Obviously, being married to Mary Todd-Lincoln didn't help matters much either.

Also, I learned just last night on the History Channel that Andrew Jackson did a real number on American Indians, to the point that some American Indians (specifically, some Cherokee) will not spend or own a $20 bill.

I love the History Channel.

Taka

Sage: Your post gave me a good laugh like.

Bush has made America more dangerous and people are poorer , except him and his mates.Historians know more about being impartial than you does, because you always praises Bush and his nut case policies.

"Bush has made America more dangerous"

Af, the statistics don't support that.

"Andrew Jackson did a real number on American Indians"

Manifest Destiny!

Abraham Lincoln was a scab. If you're from the south, you know this. The south was being taxed to death, no representation and being raped by the north. The south said they were tired of this crap and formed a more perfect country.

I keep hearing how he freed the slaves. This only became an issue during the third year of the war when he needed more soldiers to fight the south, so they came up with this 'free the slaves' as a way to get more soldiers to fight the south.

One president worse them Honest Abe was george bush, 43. < :-)

They forgot to score him on taking measures to protect American citizens. Maybe they were afraid he might come in first in that category.

O.K., I'm sorry but I just cannot let that one go. That may be the dumbest thing ever posted at Japan Today. Ever.

4000+ American citizens have died fighting a war against a country that was not an imminent threat to the U.S. while on bush's watch. The largest terrorist attack in America's history occurred on bush's watch, killing 2998.

He dropped the ball and let 2998 people die on American soil in one day. To put that number in better context, a total of 3892 lives were killed on American soil during all of WWII. More people died during the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon than what died during the attack on Pearl Harbor, and sarge wants to say that a$$ hat kept us safe?

WOW! Really. That's a head scratcher, to be sure.

To paraphrase an old saying...with things like george bush keeping Americans safe, who needs enemies (still shaking my head in disbelief)?

Anyway, here is a link to the entire list, for anyone interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_presidents

I would have thought Jefferson would have cracked the top 5, but...that top 5 is a pretty good list.

Taka

"He ( Bush ) dropped the ball and let 2998 people die on American soil in one day"

OK, I'm sorry but I just cannot let that one go. Oh, but if I repudiate that, it'll be off-topic... oh, well...

That may be the dumbest thing ever posted at Japan Today. Ever.

Bush was president for less than eight months before that attack, which never would have happened if Bill Clinton had done his job and got Binny when he had the chance.

George W. Bush the worst president ever? I don't think so.

Hey, Taka313, what do you think of adaydream's dissing of Honest Abe?

Bush was president for less than eight months before that attack, which never would have happened if Bill Clinton had done his job and got Binny when he had the chance.

The tactics and the alerts were being discussed at presidential morning briefings and they never mentioned to the airlines their concerns.

They were aware of the terrorist going to flying school.

george bush allowed it to happen. < :-)

sarge, Your lack of any logic whatsoever never ceases to amaze.

bush was president for less than eight months when the attacks happened, correct?

That still means he was the president, right?

And before you try to spin your way out of that little bit on nonsense junior, remember, if bush's blunders prior to being in office for 8 months can't be counted against him, that means the same applies for Pres. Obama. Meaining...if the stimulus plan fails, I will expect you to keep your trap shut about it being Pres. Obama's failure because it occurred during the first month of his administration.

Taka

Bush was president for less than eight months before that attack

Hmmm...that might work if al-Quaida were some brand new unknown organization. They were not. They were responsible for the first attack on the WTC in what? 93?

But, please tell everyone here exactly how much time a president has been inauguration and responsibility. Apparently, its something more than eight months. Some of your buddies over there in far right fantasy land have not gotten the memo judging by their attacks on Obama. So please, tell them the score.

Also, I think Obama would like to know the cutoff point where, if something happens, he should respond to it or continue reading "My Pet Goat" or whatever it was.

Wow. The South will Rise Again, if many commenters are to be believed. Keep on waving the Stars and Bars, boys. I'll stick with my Star Spangled Banner, thanks.

GW is by no means the "worst" president, though I wouldn't say he was good one. Claiming that he is simply diplays a gross ingorance of (or indifferece to) American history.

Likeitis,

Apparently responsibility and accountability for the last president hasn't started YET!!

Cult mentality relies on logic being the first sacrifice to the cause.

Also, I think Obama would like to know the cutoff point where, if something happens, he should respond to it or continue reading "My Pet Goat" or whatever it was.

Or he can always bust out a, "It's not my fault; it was bad intel." Which really, when measuring greatness of presidents and presidential actions, lies at the absolute other end of the spectrum from, "the buck stops here."

Taka

Wow. The South will Rise Again, if many commenters are to be believed.

Huh? Nobody is talking about resurrecting the Confederacy, just pointing out that as those states willingly joined the Union, they had a right to leave it. And Lincoln was wrong to oppose it if you are basing the decision on justice and fairness. If you are basing the decision on pure power and strength for the future, he was correct. But I tend to go with justice and fairness, and those who do not score low in my book.

Four score and seven years earlier, we established the right of people to form a more perfect union. Abe Lincoln crapped on that principle. Agree or disagree?

"If the stimulus fails, I expect you to keep your trap shut about it being Pres. Obama's failure"

I'll give that pork bill 8 months, which is more than you give President Bush for fixing all the security failures of President Clinton.

"Also, I think Obama would like to know the cutoff point where, if something happens, he should respond to it or continue reading "My Pet Goat"

President Bush did respond to it, resulting in most of the perpetrators of the attack captured or killed and two countries liberated to boot.

Yeah, I made up my mind. I took a look at presidents and looked specifically at only the presidents that I can remember their presidency's from Kennedy to bush(43) and george bush(43) is the absolute worst president that I can remember.

Yep, that how I see it. < :-)

Sarge: which is more than you give President Bush for fixing all the security failures of President Clinton.

Please name Clinton's security failures. Then please explain why GWB did not fix them before 9/11.

resulting in most of the perpetrators of the attack captured or killed

The perpetrators died on September 11, 2001. You cannot kill what is already dead and capture corpses that have turned to ash, but that would be something!

I think what you want to say is that planners and operatives of 9/11 were killed or captured. Did you imagine another president would have suggested we let them go? I think another president would have gotten OBL is what I think.

The biggest contribution of the Bush admin to security is to streamline government agencies and coordinate the FBI and CIA etc. The trouble is, THAT WASN'T THE PROBLEM. But more problems were created by this streamlining, including questions over the ability of FEMA to act independently in times of emergency. And in case you do not know, sometimes redundancy is desirable. But I do not expect you to understand how checks and balances work. I do not expect you even care. So while Bush did contribute, it is certainly debatable whether that contribution was necessary, or even good.

and two countries liberated to boot.

You cannot liberate what is not occupied. I think what you want to say is that two nasty regimes were overthrown, and even that is not true. One was. The other is making a quick comeback, thanks to splitting forces to deal with a country that did us no wrong.

But the biggest point of all is that you should not make war on countries that did not make war on you. Overthrowing regimes is not our business.

president bush did respond to it, resulting in most of the perpetrators of the attack captured or killed and two countries liberated to boot.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm

If only wrong were an Olympic event, sarge.....

So reality impaired. So deep in the Kool(k)-Aid.

Taka

Yeah, I made up my mind. I took a look at presidents and looked specifically at only the presidents that I can remember their presidency's from Kennedy to bush(43) and george bush(43) is the absolute worst president that I can remember.

Now this is much more reasonable. Still debatable, mind you, but quite reasonable.

Please name Clinton's security failures. Then please explain why GWB did not fix them before 9/11.

I hope you are working on this Sarge.

If Al Gore had won the Electoral College vote, we'd probably STILL be dealing with the Taliban still firmly in control of most of Afghanistan, including Kabul, and Saddam Hussein STILL firmly in charge of running Iraq into the ground, LOL!

And Saddam Hussein and Iraq would STILL not be a threat. And thousands of our young men would STILL be alive, and we would have gotten OBL as well as smashed al-Quaida. And we would not be dealing with the Taliban AT ALL anymore, because they never attacked us, they just got in the way.

Sarge: and Saddam Hussein STILL firmly in charge of running Iraq into the ground, LOL!

Let's not forget about the nuclear arms race that would be happening right now between Iran and Iraq.

To 'Badsey'

If you are voting for Presidents that almost destoyed a country: Lincoln Obama Clinton Johnson Nixon G.W.

I fail to see how Obama has almost destroyed the U.S.

Let's not forget about the nuclear arms race that would be happening right now between Iran and Iraq.

You are getting to be about as funny as Sarge. Bad enough you are not keeping up with current information, but at least you could dispense with yesterday's propaganda. All that Iraq and nukes was complete horsecrap, and your olfactory system must be seriously damaged if you can't smell it by now.

Besides, Iran has had nuclear neighbors FOR A LONG TIME NOW, ie, real reasons to worry rather than made up ones about Iraq.

Lincoln was so arrogant and power hungry that he decided to force the South to either rejoin the Union or suffer. And suffer we did.

Lincoln would have killed every Southerner to take control of the South. < :-)