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Macron's government seeks to give Islam a French makeover

30 Comments
By BARBARA SURK

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30 Comments

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“Islam is not a religion of foreigners in France, but a French religion that should not depend on foreign money and any authorities abroad.”

Darmanin is contractiding himself. If if it were not financed from abroad, we would not be there. It's late to wake up and face the harsh reality.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

The French take their culture too seriously, in America you can embrace any culture you choose

-23 ( +4 / -27 )

Makeover he try to make one religiton and then other reliigion need to be fit his decription.

That country already forced what religious woman can wear, they'll just go to another things now

https://time.com/6049226/france-hijab-ban/

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Who writes this stuff, Kim Kardashian?:

*- “Macron's government seeks to give Islam a French makeover …efforts to reshape Islam in France and introducing a new body …” -*

5 ( +8 / -3 )

I’m confused, I thought secularism was a big thing in French governments.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Who writes this stuff, Kim Kardashicas?

In this case, straight from AP. Hot off the wire.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

in America you can embrace any culture you choose

Gimme a break. Islamophobia. Sinophobia. Anti-black racism. That's just for starters.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

YrralToday  07:50 am JST

The French take their culture too seriously, in America you can embrace any culture you choose

I will partially agree but in America the laws and government are far more open to interpretation.

Some people will inevitably look for a fight or to cause trouble just because they can.

France has a long history and traditions but some decide to take offense at some of these causing tension.

Take what happened several years ago, at a publicly funded event, free food was served to the public a long standing tradition this food included items certain Religions cannot eat, not everything just a few traditional dishes, like Normandy pee soup with ham, sausages, etc...

This was well known and accepted, by one of these religions but the other took it to court saying not violated the equality under the laws.

Yes the courts agreed and now such traditional foods are no long permitted to be given free during public events and under some cases even in non government public events.

This was of course seized on by the far right as an example of why non pure French ( no such thing as pure French) and immigrants should not be permitted in France.

So now the Right go around France holding events serving food for free they know contain product certain Religions cannot eat and wait for the authorities or someone else to react giving the far right false legitimacy in fighting back.

Certain things are traditions in some places and for relatively new comers to show up and say "nope that has to stop as it offends us" is just as wrong as any far right group.

Imagine the reaction if a newly nationalised Japanese from a religion that had certain restrictions as their children entered school went to court saying the having XYZ served in school lunches even having it in the same kitchen was unacceptable and the everyone else had to also not eat it.

How would that go over?

This is the problem with the religious and religion in general, it/they will find something to try and convince, force, manipulate those no of their religion to join or follow even if they don't want to.

This in not something new, this is not only Muslim, it is just about every religion over the centuries and in time.

I come from a place where for centuries religion ruled every day life, right in to public school, we finally got rid of that only for a new one to now try and insert itself into public school.

Best part about living in Japan is not having to deal with religion in schools, government or at work.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

That would be 'Islam with French characteristics' then.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Gimme a break. Islamophobia. Sinophobia. Anti-black racism. That's just for starters.

You have an active imagination or are watching too much tv. Only socially acceptable racism in the west is anti-white racism.

Also It's not a phobia. When a guy in a vest shouting you know what blows up a teenage girls Ariana grande concert, it's a perfectly rational fear.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Well, that is how they handled the problem of Christian extremism after being bloodied by it in the 1940s.

Oh, wait they didn't.

And they didn't after being bloodied by attacks by Christian extremists in the 1950s.

And they didn't after being bloodied by attacks by Christian extremists in the 1960s.

And they didn't after being bloodied by attacks by Christian extremists in the 1970s.

And they didn't after being bloodied by attacks by Christian extremists in the 1980s.

And they didn't after being bloodied by attacks by Christian extremists in the 2000s.

But of course, racism has played absolutely no role in the decision to react so differently. You believe that, right?

Right?

...

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Good for the French. Preventing the importation of radical Islamist preachers can ultimately only benefit everyone, including the Muslim community.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

You can’t just take someone’s religion and make it suit what you wished it would be.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

So its OK for France to try to limit radical Islam in France but "genocide" when China does the same in China?

2 ( +7 / -5 )

In which countries are there no attacks by Muslims? In countries that have no muslims!

Food for thought!

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Zichi....

All good, but I would add they get no tax breaks or public funding.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Extremism in religion should not be allowed, doesnt matter if they enforce the hijab or not allow women the freedom to choose what they do with their bodies.

France has every right to prevent the spread of extremism!!!

1 ( +4 / -3 )

The French multicultural utopia always seems to be one draconian measure away from being realised. If we ban just one more "extremist" sect, allow the government just a bit more control over religion, grant the police a few more surveillance powers, control what people wear in public, and pass one last hate speech law, then we can all live in peace and harmony together.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

You can’t just take someone’s religion and make it suit what you wished it would be.

You can attempt do more to tame and domesticate religion. Untamed religion ( fundamentalism - straight from the books ) kills and upholds ideas which have no place in this century.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

in America you can embrace any culture you choose

Gimme a break. Islamophobia. Sinophobia. Anti-black racism. That's just for starters.

I was thinking along the same lines when I read that first quote. There is enormous pressure in the US to conform to some narrow view of conservative political and religious thought, and not shortage of people willing to call you all sorts of names and even threaten you if you are not willing to conform.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Extremism in religion should not be allowed, doesnt matter if they enforce the hijab or not allow women the freedom to choose what they do with their bodies.

So this is a difficult question. Freedom of speech and freedom of religion argues strongly against any form of government interference in religious traditions or their teachings. A government can legitimately expect criminal and civil laws to be adhered to and prosecute violations of laws but i don't think regulating religious teaching is productive. What seems to work best is to offer educational and economic opportunities. Having a good education and some a decent productive lifestyle does more to moderate radicalism than anything else a government can do.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I will add that much of what drives religious radicalism is frustration with governments driven by poverty, discrimination, abuse by the security forces and being denied a voice in their government. When a government seems to work for one group at the expense of another you can almost predict the group that comes up short will eventually be radicalized.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Religions transcend nations and cultures.

France has had Islam at least since the colonial days.

GBR48Today  09:59 am JST

That would be 'Islam with French characteristics' then.

It all sounds like a good idea on paper but many Muslims in France now are refugees from war-torn lands. And the future generations will embrace the 'French'-ness on their own.

And at the same time, church/mosque and state/government need to be separated.

RichardPearceToday  10:43 am JST

Well, that is how they handled the problem of Christian extremism

France (and the rest of Europe) has quite an ugly distant history of that extremist crap too. Crusades, anyone?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

And just another one who wants to shovel magma back into the volcano. lol Such attempts are right from the beginning potentially unsuccessful as in other countries that consider trying similar things.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

You can’t just take someone’s religion and make it suit what you wished it would be.

People have been taking religion and making it suit whatever they wished it to be since the beginning of time. That's why and how there are so many different sects and cults in any religion, all modified to suit the times/place.

That's how Saturnalia got fused into Christmas, why we light candles and decorate trees. Why Christianity is divided into Catholicism, Protestantism, a variety of Eastern Orthodoxies, and Heaven knows how many others. (no pun intended)

It's why some Muslim states insist on full-body burqas, while others are happy with a simple headscarf that shows some hair.

It's why some Jews wear black hats and ringlets, while others are happy with just a little yarmulke.

The whole point of a religion seems to be you make it what suits you, or the powers that be, according to the time and place.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Why don't these people understand that France officially abolished religion from 1789-1795 and created a state secular religion in its place? Why won't they embrace Englightenment-derived Liberalism and play nice? /s

3 ( +4 / -1 )

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