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Macron vs Le Pen: Opposing styles and visions for France

26 Comments
By SYLVIE CORBET

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The fallacy is believing French voters are as gullible as Americans. They express their emotions in the first round, then in the second they decide reasonably which of the two remaining candidates they want running their country for five years. They are not going to sacrifice their republic on some unrealistic "principle" and they are not as susceptible to outright lies. 

 

France has never elected a fascist and is not about to.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

May 3rd debate should be interesting. Both are erudite, eloquent, witty and smart and this could be one of the greatest pre 2nd rd debate we have had in decades.

Also love the fact candidates' private life, kids, partner etc aren't at the centre of the campaign.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

I've been a Macron supporter from the start when victory seemed impossible, so quite excited about the result. (but I had the same feeling about Tony Blair and Obama so maybe I shouldn't get too excited)

It's interesting when you look at the opinion polling issue by issue. Support for the EU is something around 60%, keeping the Euro is even higher at around 75% (which is odd if you want to reconcile the two), and Chatham House did a poll last year showing support for a total ban on Islamic immigration was over 60% (with less than 20% opposed).

What is becoming clear is that the deal breaker for voters when it came to voting for Le Pen was the EU and the economic suicide of any potential withdrawal. If she had positioned herself as an EU reform candidate rather than an EU withdrawal candidate, would we be staring down the barrel of a Le Pen presidency today?

The reason I ask is because the latest news is that Le Pen has quit her position as head of the FN today. She is essentially an independent candidate at this point. Is she going to unshackle herself from the unpopular parts of the FN manifesto in the 2nd round? I still don't think she could win, but it will be interesting to see what happens.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Le Poison Pen has resigned from her far right nationalist party to appeal to a wider range of voters in their over ambitious push to become president of the republic. I think the majority of the French do not want to leave the EU which is at the top of the Le Pen list. Very strange to quit after the election campaign had already begun.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

goodluck to Le Pen!

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

M3 and zichi, she hasnt resigned per se, she has temporarily stepped down as head of the FN till election day.

In doing so she tacitly admits that her party can't win the election, which is probably true. It's a PR coup as MLP is the FN as much as FN is MLP but she has no choice, bit of a desperate move to distance herself from her own party and the stigma attached to it.

M3, i think you're spot on about le pen's anti eu approach costing her the election. I actually think it's her 'let's go back to the french franc' silly position that's hurting her big time. Even the most nationalistic frenchman doesn't mind the euro. It's imo this kind of symbolic/nationalist nonsense that will cost her the W, not her position re immigration or national security.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The European Union is obsolete. The test has failed, and remember that is what is was.

The sooner we get on with it the better. Viva Le Pen!

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

France has never elected a fascist and is not about to.

Crazy Joe - Le Pen is a Fascist now? Amazing how millennials throw that term around so casually these days to make themselves feel better.

I saw a guy jaywalk the other day. Bloody fascist.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Israel's president on Monday denounced French far-right presidential candidate Marine Le Pen's recent comments denying France's role in the Holocaust as "uniquely disturbing" and urged his country not to make "unholy alliances" with rising nationalist parties in Europe.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

"unholy alliances"

> What pray tell constitutes a holy alliance?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Millions fought and died in the last war against fascism and never again must it be allowed a foothold in Europe. The fascism of Le Pen and her party is what it is. A party started by her father a convicted racist and Holocaust denier. Le Pen denies the French had any part in the Holocaust. My son and grandchildren are French and the future for France that Le Pen wants it not the same as we want.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Macron : 62%

ML...38%...

Its a shame she will do better than her father in 2002 (Chirac 82%/LP 18%) because she is exactly the same : a pure facist.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

fascist...

2 ( +4 / -2 )

This age it's easier to call someone who has more sophisticated views on the things as a fascist regardless of whether they praise the sun once a day or wear a symbol of a curved propeller on the uniforms.

Or if you are a bloody(pun intended) capitalist and want to disregard anyone calling for humane socialist approach to the socium.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Zichi - Le Pen has not and is not a Holocaust denier. She has laid blame on French complicity at the hands of Vichy France rather than the country as a whole.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Earlier this month, Le Pen denied that France was responsible for rounding up more than 13,000 Jews at a Paris cycle track to be sent to Nazi death camps during the Holocaust. 

France’s responsibility for the 1942 Vel' d'Hiv Roundup, the Nazi-directed mass arrest of Jews in Paris by French police, has been admitted by both former President Jacques Chirac and current leader Francois Hollande, after decades of the state denying it was at fault.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

so now you've gone from she's a Holocaust denier to denying blame on Vichy France. Whats next?

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

laying blame

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Actually, it was very much France that carried out the stadium roundups — specifically, some 4,500 French police, deployed in pairs, fanning out through the City of Light beginning at dawn on July 16, 1942, and acting on the direct orders of French officials. In all, 13,152 Jews were picked up over five days: 5,919 women, 4,115 children and 3,118 men; nearly all of them were then deported and murdered. More Jews might have perished had some not been tipped off or hidden by a small number of police, neighbors and friends. That is part of the story, too, but hardly absolution for all France.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/marine-le-pens-loathsome-rewriting-of-holocaust-history/2017/04/14/ac6c602a-2080-11e7-ad74-3a742a6e93a7_story.html?utm_term=.de3f9da23877

5 ( +7 / -2 )

So when, over twenty years ago, Chirac admitted publicly that France was at fault, was he somehow mistaken? Or has Mme Le Pen managed to dig up some new facts that were unavailable in 1995?

It's to be one or the other. The idea that the Front haven't changed since the dark days of Jean-Marie is ridiculous, obviously....

4 ( +6 / -2 )

your wicked character assassination on the woman.

To steal from a great quip - it isn't really possible to assassinate Le Pen's character - it committed suicide a long time ago.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I would encourage a few posters here to read a book I've just finished recently; "Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland". Its a chilling true story of a seemingly ordinary group of men with families who found themselves given a horrible task; shooting thousands of Polish Jews in the German occupation. It shows how group think, a misguided sense of duty, and the desire to go along with convention can make ordinary people do the most heinous things.

I think there are parallels to the current SJWs who throw all free speech and open dialogue right out the door with increasing violence. But a word to the wise, it will make some a little more hesitant to say words like "Nazi" and "fascist" when faced with the real deal.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

@clamenza

Zichi - Le Pen has not and is not a Holocaust denier. She has laid blame on French complicity at the hands of Vichy France rather than the country as a whole.

Earlier this month, Le Pen denied that France was responsible for rounding up more than 13,000 Jews at a Paris cycle track to be sent to Nazi death camps during the Holocaust. 

so now you've gone from she's a Holocaust denier to denying blame on Vichy France. Whats next?

laying blame

zichi - rather than admit to your very scurrilous and erroneous charge of Le Pen being a Holocaust denier, you predictably flood the thread with a newspaper story as if that is enough to excuse your wicked character assassination on the woman. Sad.

Deniers are always the trojans of mistruth but deniers of deniers are just a mockery of common sense and history.

So, no. In other words your VERY irresponsible charge will go by with no apology or any hint of personal reflection.Oh well, at least no racial slurs have been levelled at me tonight. (course, its still early)

Not sure how a person attacking another person but both of the same color and race could ever be racist?

I don't need to apology to you or Le Pen even though you don't support free speech.

some people should hit the old library and work on their comprehension on the meanings of "defamation of character" and "spreading false information".

Well the information on all aspects of Marine Le Pen, her father and French history are more than well documented and available to anyone on the internet. Try a Google. Just more manipulation of what didn't actually happen nor what was said.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I think there are parallels to the current SJWs

I get a sense of rightist virtue signaling when I hear boring names like SJW created by idiots on very dull rightist sites. This virtue signaling gets comical when the trash right set themselves up as the virtuous guardians of truth and free speech.

Bear in mind these virtue signallers defend the rancid, dishonest trash coming out of trash like Trump the birther. These virtue signallers can be quite hypocritical.

I know I've been a bit heavy on the use of the term 'virtue signaling', I'm just seeing if I can write a post in the authentic style of a rightist virtue signaller.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The politics and ideology of Le Pen will prevent her from presenting the majority of the French people.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Oedipus Macron is what he is, a Left Socialist who was an economy minister of the highly popular Hollande(le sexy chien), an elitist Rothschild financier. In other words, the Manchurian candidate for the globalist elites who tell others what to think and believe. If the media and elitists(redundant?) keep pushing the neophyte as the ideal candidate, the good people may actually vote against him and for Le Stylo ou Le Crayon.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

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