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Marcos says Philippines won't be intimidated amid China row

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Error in the article:

Chinese sailors

-

Chinese pirates

21 ( +25 / -4 )

The Philippines navy should deploy the “BRP Gregorio del Pilar (PF-15)” to the area during the next supply attempt.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

Important to keep in mind this fact: Second Thomas Shoal is claimed by four states - Philippines, Vietnam, China and Taiwan.

The map at the bottom highlights this pertinent fact. And we can see that China's claim is identical to Taiwan's. What a coincidence.

-18 ( +2 / -20 )

However, Manila says it was also concerned Chinese forces would launch a similar attempt to dislodge a small Filipino military garrison on Second Thomas Shoal.

At least the soldiers in that garrison have an advantage(presumably they have guns), China cannot use guns else that would constitute an armed attack that can trigger mdt

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Problem is food and water

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

JJEToday 03:04 pm JST

Important to keep in mind this fact: Second Thomas Shoal is claimed by four states - Philippines, Vietnam, China and Taiwan.

The map at the bottom highlights this pertinent fact. And we can see that China's claim is identical to Taiwan's. What a coincidence.

Still China's warmongering

13 ( +16 / -3 )

That's great but Marcos should ask for the US to assist with resupply missions.

13 ( +16 / -3 )

Marcos says Philippines won't be intimidated amid China 

Bit late to be saying that ain't it ?

-10 ( +4 / -14 )

That's great but Marcos should ask for the US to assist with resupply missions.

US already supplied the rust bucket the Philippines dumped on the reef

This is a ridiculous pathetic way to maintain a foothold

Push China out with force or be wimpy

Philippines chose to be wimpy

Don't expect Biden or Trump to do diddly squat about it anyways either !

-11 ( +4 / -15 )

Mr GoodmanToday 03:21 pm JST

US already supplied the rust bucket the Philippines dumped on the reef

This is a ridiculous pathetic way to maintain a foothold

Push China out with force or be wimpy

Philippines chose to be wimpy

Don't expect Biden or Trump to do diddly squat about it anyways either !

Biden already did something as you said. Making sure the US is there every time would be good practice for all involved and help the Chinese pick on someone their own size.

13 ( +16 / -3 )

Establish Submarine station in the area, say on a Sand Bar that is made into a “Monitoring Post”, right china?

9 ( +10 / -1 )

JJE

Today 03:04 pm JST

Important to keep in mind this fact: Second Thomas Shoal is claimed by four states - Philippines, Vietnam, China and Taiwan.

> The map at the bottom highlights this pertinent fact. And we can see that China's claim is identical to Taiwan's. What a coincidence.

I seem to remember that Taiwan's claims are represented by an 11-dash line.

Of course this is okay to most people

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

PRC has fewer dashes because it settled the maritime boundary with Vietnam in the Gulf of Tonkin. China was generous and gave up some territory.

-14 ( +2 / -16 )

Mr Goodman

Today 03:21 pm JST

That's great but Marcos should ask for the US to assist with resupply missions.

> US already supplied the rust bucket the Philippines dumped on the reef

> This is a ridiculous pathetic way to maintain a foothold

> Push China out with force or be wimpy

> Philippines chose to be wimpy

> Don't expect Biden or Trump to do diddly squat about it anyways either !

Push China out with what force?

And US already clarified under what situations they can or will act according to mutual defense treaty. You think Marcos would back out if the US actually has his back?

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

deanzaZZR

Today 03:40 pm JST

PRC has fewer dashes because it settled the maritime boundary with Vietnam in the Gulf of Tonkin. China was generous and gave up some territory

Yes, China has a long track record of settling disputes in a favorable way to the other parties

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

It is clear China plans to take the region under complete control by force, and I think there is very little the Philippines can do. Marcos should've seen this coming years ago and increased spending on their navy. Japan should do the same.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

ianToday 03:37 pm JST

I seem to remember that Taiwan's claims are represented by an 11-dash line.

Of course this is okay to most people

Everyone knows the PRC is the one with the watercannons, knives, and overcompensating ships.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

This is the end result of the Duerte China-appeasing policy. Smaller nations in the region need to watch and learn.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

It's the end result of tossing a rust bucket WW2 USA navy ship on a reef 2 decades ago. It's breaking apart and Bong Bong is desperate. To quote Star Trek Bones, "he's (it's) dead, Jim".

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

The Subic Base decision coming back to bite them you know where.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Still no image of the mysterious axe. How odd.

Previous article asserted the Philippine contingent was unarmed but went on to whinge about guns going missing. No mention of that here; they appear to be making a somewhat better, if dubious, attempt at getting the 'facts' straight relating to their version of events.

Appears to be a coast guard safety inspection and contraband including firearms were seized. This happens all the time.

-13 ( +3 / -16 )

JJEToday 05:02 pm JST

Appears to be a coast guard safety inspection and contraband including firearms were seized. This happens all the time.

Pro-tip: if your "coast guard safety inspection" involves dozens of yobs waving knives you might be doing it wrong/something illegal.

10 ( +15 / -5 )

deanzaZZRToday 04:49 pm JST

It's the end result of tossing a rust bucket WW2 USA navy ship on a reef 2 decades ago. It's breaking apart and Bong Bong is desperate. To quote Star Trek Bones, "he's (it's) dead, Jim".

It's not dead as long as pirates can be driven off from it.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

Ah, so you agree that Taiwan is an independent state. That's some major progress!

Important to keep in mind this fact: Second Thomas Shoal is claimed by four states - Philippines, Vietnam, China and Taiwan.

The map at the bottom highlights this pertinent fact. And we can see that China's claim is identical to Taiwan's. What a coincidence.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

fallafel - clarification - intentionally used the word state, as opposed to nation, which it isn't as it lacks UN-recognition of a sovereign nation.

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

Stay tall, President Marcos. Don't get intimated and scared by the China pirates and barbaric action from the CCP.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

fallafel - clarification - intentionally used the word state, as opposed to nation, which it isn't as it lacks UN-recognition of a sovereign nation.

Nitpicking here but you are mixing up the terms there. A “state” is an independent country under international law. A “nation” is a group of people tied together by a common culture, language, etc who may or may not be organized as a state.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Biden already did something as you said. Making sure the US is there every time would be good

Biden didn't supply the old boat the Philippines dumped there - so what on earth are you saying

Biden ain't realistically done anything to stop what happened obviously because it happened

-13 ( +0 / -13 )

Push China out with what force?

And US already clarified under what situations they can or will act according to mutual defense treaty. You think Marcos would back out if the US actually has his back?

Why even ask me ?

The Philippines soldiers allowed this to happen by being wimpy

They need to grow a spine

Obviously the almighty US doesn't really have the iron clad defense of allies anyway so why mention that is silly

China has to be stopped physically

Pissn and moaning about it doesn't achieve anything and just encourages China

-13 ( +0 / -13 )

JJEToday 03:04 pm JST

Important to keep in mind this fact: Second Thomas Shoal is claimed by four states - Philippines, Vietnam, China and Taiwan.

Important to keep in mind that this doesn't affect the UNCLOS ruling in any way. Chinese pirates must leave Philippine sovereign waters: case closed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_China_Sea_Arbitration#Award

deanzaZZRToday 04:49 pm JST

It's the end result of tossing a rust bucket WW2 USA navy ship on a reef 2 decades ago.

No, it's the result of China trying to steal things that don't belong to it. Nothing else.

JJEToday 05:02 pm JST

This happens all the time.

Being attacked by pirates in your country's own sovereign waters? Not sure which planet you live on if you think this "happens all the time."

10 ( +13 / -3 )

Mr GoodmanToday 06:04 pm JST

Taiwan is a renegade province of China

"Independent sovereign country," as confirmed multiple times by its duly elected government.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/19/asia/lai-chingte-taiwan-president-inauguration-intl-hnk/index.html

“Taiwan is already an independent sovereign country”

11 ( +14 / -3 )

Also important to recognize that water cannons are widely used by other actors in the region. For example, Taiwan and Japan employ them from time to time.

One almost never reads in the media bubble about Taiwan's coast guard blasting boats with high powered water cannons in the SCS.

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

@JJE

Here is the pic of the Chinese pirate with the axe.

https://www.thestar.com.my/aseanplus/aseanplus-news/2024/06/20/philippines-releases-dramatic-footage-of-clash-with-china-coast-guard

11 ( +13 / -2 )

Deafening silence from the Sec-Gen of the UN - utterly useless organisation, bordering on the totally inept. All the civilised countries of the world who contribute to the vast coffers of the UN should be imploring them to step-up to the plate and intervene, ie: telling the Chinese to stop behaving like a barbaric tribe, intimidating innocent fishermen.

Who the hell do they think they are, that they can launch an attack with knives, sticks, and axes on unarmed fishermen, attacking another sovereign state ??

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Also important to recognize that water cannons are widely used by other actors in the region. For example, Taiwan and Japan employ them from time to time.

Problem isn’t water cannons per se, its using water cannons - or any other weapon- to attack another country’s territory. Haven’t heard of Japan or Taiwan doing anything remotely like that.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

Wise - thanks.

Fairly grainy, low-resolution image, almost intentionally so. Doesn't really look like an axe. Could be any number of maritime implements, for example a boat hook.

Important to note the Chinese coast guard sailors have appropriate gear - high vis life jackets, head protection etc as opposed to the Philippine contingent with combat overalls, boots, football/hockey style shoulder pads and most irresponsibly, not a PFD in sight. They are a danger to themselves and others.

The Philipine boats in that image have random items scattered everywhere like a messy garage; a complete schemozzle.

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

This is not important. It's an attempt to distract.

Important to note the Chinese coast guard sailors have appropriate gear - high vis life jackets, head protection etc as opposed to the Philippine contingent with combat overalls, boots, football/hockey style shoulder pads and most irresponsibly, not a PFD in sight. They are a danger to themselves and others.

The Philipine boats in that image have random items scattered everywhere like a messy garage; a complete schemozzle.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Mr Goodman

Today 06:00 pm JST

Push China out with what force?

> And US already clarified under what situations they can or will act according to mutual defense treaty. You think Marcos would back out if the US actually has his back?

> Why even ask me ?

> The Philippines soldiers allowed this to happen by being wimpy

> They need to grow a spine

> Obviously the almighty US doesn't really have the iron clad defense of allies anyway so why mention that is silly

> China has to be stopped physically

> Pissn and moaning about it doesn't achieve anything and just encourages China

You said push China out with force

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

The Philippines has a small navy, but any attack upon its ships would give the excuse to ask for help from its allies. Now is the time for action.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

JJEToday 06:39 pm JST

Also important to recognize that water cannons are widely used by other actors in the region.

Also important to recognize that this still does not change the UNCLOS ruling, no matter how desperately you try to twist the debate.

JJEToday 07:11 pm JST

Important to note the Chinese coast guard sailors have appropriate gear - high vis life jackets, head protection etc as opposed to the Philippine contingent with combat overalls, boots, football/hockey style shoulder pads and most irresponsibly, not a PFD in sight. They are a danger to themselves and others.

Seems to me you're blaming the Philippine sailors for foolishly not anticipating an attack by axe/club/knife-wielding Chinese pirates, rather than the axe/club/knife-wielding Chinese pirates themselves. Interesting take.

You know, you're wasted on an internet messageboard. With all your outlandish ideas and, shall we say, "avant garde" interpretation of reality, you should be a fiction author.

9 ( +12 / -3 )

Ah Mr Goodman I just remembered something about pushing back militarily.

I've read a long time ago so not sure of the details. Anyway hope someone can verify or add details.

Back in the day Scarborough shoal was a shared fishing ground of China and the Philippines, maybe other countries also.

But of course altercations happen from time to time. But this altercations do not involve military or navy ships.

Until one time the Philippines did send a warship maybe brp del Pilar.

So it was the Philippines who first militarized the disputes.

Anyway, of course China sent warship/s also and there was a standoff.

The Philippines asked the US for help and advice.

The US advised the Philippines to leave the shoal. Philippine boats were never allowed /able to go back there again.

That's how the Philippines lost Scarborough shoal

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

TokyoOldMan

Today 08:04 pm JST

The Philippines has a small navy, but any attack upon its ships would give the excuse to ask for help from its allies. Now is the time for action.

Yes the US is obligated to do so if the Philippines were attacked first.

Would they help if the Philippines attack first?

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

The Philippines soldiers allowed this to happen by being wimpy

So no, in my opinion , Philippine soldiers aren't wimpy

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

They did strike first

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

According to an international tribunal's legally binding decision issued in July 2016, the PRC has no lawful maritime claims to the waters around Second Thomas Shoal and Second Thomas Shoal is a low tide feature clearly within the Philippines exclusive economic zone.

Enough said. China has no business there.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

It isn't legally binding. PRC did not participate in said arbitration which amounted to Amateur Hour.

Also relevant to understand the US is not a party to UNCLOS and by default does not observe the arbitration, despite the smoke blowing.

The illegally grounded rusting, asbestos riddled hulk (which has it's own dubious history against one of the other claimants) is a hazard to navigation, the environment and an eyesore. Needs to be removed top smart.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

JJE

Today 10:44 pm JST

It isn't legally binding. PRC did not participate in said arbitration which amounted to Amateur Hour

Even if China participated I don't think it would be legally binding in general

There were other claimants to the features/islands in dispute (Vietnam at least, maybe Malaysia too. Taiwan of course but Taiwan and China have same claims and also each other so maybe count as one party for the purposes of arbitration.

Anyway point is, one or two parties cannot just decide by itself/among themselves ownership of things that have other claimants

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

JJEToday 10:44 pm JST

It isn't legally binding. PRC did not participate in said arbitration which amounted to Amateur Hour.

China has ratified the treaty and is bound by it. It didn't participate in the arbitration because it knew it would lose, but it doesn't matter anyway as it is still bound by the treaty.

And, even without UNCLOS, piracy is illegal everywhere.

Also relevant to understand the US is not a party to UNCLOS and by default does not observe the arbitration, despite the smoke blowing.

Irrelevant, as I've told you before when you tried to deflect the blame from China onto the US.

The illegally grounded rusting, asbestos riddled hulk (which has it's own dubious history against one of the other claimants) is a hazard to navigation, the environment and an eyesore. Needs to be removed top smart.

There's nothing illegal about the Philippines putting a Philippine ship in Philippine waters.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Incorrect. Ratification of said treaty does not translate into bilateral observed arbitration, which is clearly not the case.

As pointed out above (and previously) there are other claimants too.

Washington has no remit to preach over internationally contested waters under this UN body (highlighted by their own illegitimate annexation of seabeds), let alone enforce it.

Pirates steal ships. We know who does that.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

PH is desperate to keep the marooned WW2 era ship Sierra Madre from disintegrating. There's no denying Mother Nature. Maybe a typhoon will take care of the problem this typhoon season.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

deanzaZZRToday 01:20 am JST

PH is desperate to keep the marooned WW2 era ship Sierra Madre from disintegrating. There's no denying Mother Nature. Maybe a typhoon will take care of the problem this typhoon season.

Wishful thinking for nature to do what China cannot.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Mr GoodmanJune 23 06:00 pm JST

Obviously the almighty US doesn't really have the iron clad defense of allies anyway so why mention that is silly

When our leaders don't show spine, yes, that is the case. The US Navy does have the capability to clear the area of trash if there was the will, too, though.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

JJEJune 23 06:39 pm JST

fallafel - clarification - intentionally used the word state, as opposed to nation, which it isn't as it lacks UN-recognition of a sovereign nation.

An amusing attempt at recalling one's own statement.

Also important to recognize that water cannons are widely used by other actors in the region. For example, Taiwan and Japan employ them from time to time.

One almost never reads in the media bubble about Taiwan's coast guard blasting boats with high powered water cannons in the SCS.

Still China's Warmongering

Wise - thanks.

Fairly grainy, low-resolution image, almost intentionally so. Doesn't really look like an axe. Could be any number of maritime implements, for example a boat hook.

Important to note the Chinese coast guard sailors have appropriate gear - high vis life jackets, head protection etc as opposed to the Philippine contingent with combat overalls, boots, football/hockey style shoulder pads and most irresponsibly, not a PFD in sight. They are a danger to themselves and others.

The Philipine boats in that image have random items scattered everywhere like a messy garage; a complete schemozzle.

They should get right on cleaning that up... as soon as they do their duty to remove pirates.

It isn't legally binding. PRC did not participate in said arbitration which amounted to Amateur Hour.

Don't show up to court and you should expect an adverse ruling against you. International tribunals are not amateur hour. A Trump level argument.

Also relevant to understand the US is not a party to UNCLOS and by default does not observe the arbitration, despite the smoke blowing.

Almost like that matters f all.

The illegally grounded rusting, asbestos riddled hulk (which has it's own dubious history against one of the other claimants) is a hazard to navigation, the environment and an eyesore. Needs to be removed top smart.

But it won't be because scummy China doesn't have the ability without getting a real bloody nose that will make opining on ships seem quaint.

Incorrect. Ratification of said treaty does not translate into bilateral observed arbitration, which is clearly not the case.

As pointed out above (and previously) there are other claimants too.

The ruling only told China to f off, which is within the arbitration's mandate.

Washington has no remit to preach over internationally contested waters under this UN body (highlighted by their own illegitimate annexation of seabeds), let alone enforce it.

But the US can come to the aid of an ally in any manner that ally requests. Particularly in international waters.

Pirates steal ships. We know who does that.

Derelicts can also steal stuff within grabbing distance as these pirates did. Considering you are in favor of thug China removing a ship, you are in favor of full on piracy.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Amateur hour. Just use a helicopter. Or sink them.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Only one country is seizing ships on the high seas - and their cargoes too.

We all know whom; the basic definition of piracy.

The other law-abiding multipolar groupings of the world will not descend and resort to such disreputable conduct.

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

JJEToday 02:34 am JST

The other law-abiding multipolar groupings of the world will not descend and resort to such disreputable conduct.

Yes they will. China has shown it obeys no rules and we see the commentators here saying the Sierra Madre should be removed. China also said they will practice abduction. Are they going to abduct some of the crew and leave the rest to sail the ships home?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Facts are the ship seizures happen to Iran and Syrian linked commercial vessels outside any UN related embargo, which doesn't exist. Civilian vessels bound for Venezuela have also been nabbed by the self-appointed sherif. They steal the ship, cargo and pretend this is not piracy.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

JJEToday 03:08 am JST

Facts are the ship seizures happen to Iran and Syrian linked commercial vessels outside any UN related embargo, which doesn't exist. Civilian vessels bound for Venezuela have also been nabbed by the self-appointed sherif. They steal the ship, cargo and pretend this is not piracy.

Fact is, this is not an excuse for Chinese piracy.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

China is your friend..

Just cooperate...

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

TokyoLivingToday 04:11 am JST

China is your friend..

Just cooperate...

Or die, I guess is the command.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Initially, about 10 years ago, the Philippines cozied up to China hoping to play the USA and China as pawns in order to receive favors from each country. But it has backfired in their faces because China was from the get go after resources and better access to the Pacific Ocean. The USA had been deeply allied with the Philippines and the relationship was good for over 50 years but the powers that be in the Philippines got it in their heads the they could go it alone. They probably could have, but the internal structure of the Philippines has deeply rooted systematic corruption that did not allow the country to modernize and broadly increase wealth across the population. Instead they continued to covet and protect their corrupted turf and got nowhere. It is the same story across much of SE Asia. Ultimately, until the Philippines cleans up its own backyard it may be best for them to stay close to the USA.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

deanzaZZR

Today 01:20 am JST

PH is desperate to keep the marooned WW2 era ship Sierra Madre from disintegrating. There's no denying Mother Nature. Maybe a typhoon will take care of the problem this typhoon season.

There must be a reason the Philippines is holding on to it for a little bit longer. It has been marooned there a long time and per the agreement of the two countries, can't be repaired so just naturally wore down for more than 2 decades

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Because of this incident, Marcos must now know exactly the extent to which he could count on the US.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

isabelleJune 23  02:37 pm JST

Error in the article:

Chinese sailors

-

Chinese pirates

'Pirates' owe allegiance to no government or authority. These weren't pirates by any definition of the word. They are Chinese sailors, Chinese Navy personnel, military. Military of the CCP. And they are looking for a fuss and fight with the PI.

We all know that China is a Communist totalitarian nation, which means that the government has total control over everything in it. 'Pirates' are not compatible with that because pirates obey nobody.

Somalia due to its anarchic condition, has had pirates. The Houthi hooligans are technically pirates, they certainly don't follow the Yemenese government.

These are officially sanctioned CCP Navy men in intentionally trying to start an incident, maybe a fight.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I don't know what China's "strategy" is here, but intended or not China is doing a very good job of elevating the status and reputation of an otherwise unqualified and unimpressive nepo baby political midget in Ferdinand "Bongbong" Marcos. Yes, that is the nickname of an elected president of a sovereign democratic country. With all his advantages in life this man still couldn't complete an undergraduate degree at either Oxford or the University of Pennsylvania. But now the son of Imelda is being given the opportunity to make himself look like a towering statesman thanks to China's moves in the South China Sea.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

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