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McCain dismisses poll numbers; insists he will win

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More bad news for Obama - Sales of existing homes last month were up 5.5% - the best performance in 5 years.

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John McCain insisted Sunday that he is making a comeback and will defeat Democrat Barack Obama, discounting the Illinois senator’s lead in most national and key state polls, such is his penchant for disregarding information and logic and what the majority of voting Americans want, and then fumbled around for his morning dose of brain medicine.

Sarge, get ready for President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden.

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Obama on a roll: Barack Obama drew a crowd of over 100,000 at a rally in Denver on Sunday, the AP reports: The Obama campaign released an initial crowd estimate of 75,000 people. That was later upgraded to "well over" 100,00 people, a tally confirmed by a Denver police spokesman.

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Sarge, your one vote is duly registered in JT poll as well, but no disappointment, it will be more fun for you to operate from opposition camp for next four years.

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Forget the polls, the best way to judge how well a candidate is doing is by how much money they are bringing in. I've always thought that campaign finance reform was a stupid idea; let people give as much money to whoever they want. Anyway, judging by the number of people that are supporting Obama with their wallets, it looks like a landslide.

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Lieutenant, get ready for President McCain and Vice President Palin. By the way, how come, in the Military Times poll, the troops back McCain over Obama 68% to 23%? Is that bogus?

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No surprise here; like McCain, all his 3 remaining fans on this site also suffer from delusions of grandeur.

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Lieutenant, get ready for President McCain and Vice President Palin. By the way, how come, in the Military Times poll, the troops back McCain over Obama 68% to 23%? Is that bogus?

Get ready for President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden.

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Sarge, your one vote is duly registered in JT poll

Ha ha! And it is! That's hilarious.

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Of course McCain dismisses poll numbers. He also dismisses just about everything outside of his own reality. Maybe in his mind, he imagines that 100,000 people came to his rallies too.

He's out of ideas, and he can't find anything else to say about Obama except the same old tired rhetoric. And as far as the economy goes, he keeps changing his plans from day to day. Whatever you want, he'll do it, apparently. That doesn't install confidence that he can fix anything. He had his moment in the sun with the 700 billion... make that 850 billion with pork added buyout. Pork that he said before he would fight, but didn't.

His running mate has been hit by scandal after scandal, from abusing her position in Alaska (her only experience) to charging the state for taking her kids on vacation at the state's expense. She wants to take her family on vacation, great. Pay for it out of your own pocket. Everyone else has to.

And then of course, she goes around claiming that she's just a poor hockey mom just like everyone else... except that she charges her party $150,000 for her wardrobe and hair stylist... But, hey, she can see Russia from her house...

McCain says

“I don’t defend her. I praise her. She is exactly what Washington needs,” he said.

Right. Washington needs another person with lots of scandals, skeletons hidden in the closet and is willing to charge tax payers for her personal wardrobe while abusing her position for personal gain.

I think he needs to go back to the old-folks home, drink some warm milk and go back to sleep. McCain doesn't have a clue, and his hearing aid is off so he can't hear the clue-phone ringing.

Well, next Tuesday, as reported in the news, he can go ahead and skip his own rally as he promised. he's lost the election even though in his mind he'll always be a wiener.

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Maybe through another stolen election

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I still haven't received an answer from the Obama campaign to my question, how is Obama going to give 95% of American workers a tax cut when 40% of American workers don't pay taxes?

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The problem for McCain is the GOP has already written him off. Republicans running, or more accurately trying to hold on to their Senate seats, are going to be making the pitch to voters "you don't want the Democrats to gain an overwhelming, meaning filibuster proof, majority in the Senate since they will control the White House."

The RNC does not want McCain offering the opposite line, namely "you should vote for me since the Democrats control the Senate. Other than the fact they own Palin's clothes, I don't know what leverage they have over his final message to the voters.

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I still haven't received an answer from the Obama campaign to my question, how is Obama going to give 95% of American workers a tax cut when 40% of American workers don't pay taxes?

Get ready for President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden.

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bong,bong,bong,bong,bongin' on.. whatever ya reckon Johnboy.

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McCain after his loss at the elections> I dismiss the election results, I think I have still won.....

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Granpa McCain still has the dodgy, unauditable electronic voting machines provided by GOP-supporting companies to help him out.

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McCain is losing across the board and Obama is 5 points ahead in Ohio, a must-win state for mccain.

Not only was his running mate Sarah Palin spurned by the Alaska Daily News, her State's largest newspaper, but The Great American Traitor - john mccain - was trashed as being "the wrong choice for president at this critical time for our nation."

Not only has john mccain been caught receiving cash after selling out jobs of hard-working Americans when he backed the $35 billion Pentagon contract for a European plane maker EADS earlier this year, but he has spent the better part of this year actively selling out American ideals, hence the 'Great American Traitor' label.

And Republicans are now fearing a historic Obama landslide will unleash civil war within the party.

But who else do they have to blame but themselves, their pick of mccain, mccain's pick of Palin, their backing of the failed Iraq War, the tanking US economy, their complete lack of fiscal discipline that has led to the biggest US federal debt mountain in history, GOP politics that have divided Americans like at no other time, the president they backed who is now the most unpopular in modern history, oh, and I'm sure there are a few other reasons, too.

Heck, The Great Republican Implosion of '08 is getting funnier by the day :-)

EADS contract sellout: www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/11/mccain-received-defense-f_n_90951.html

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more and more McCain is sounding like the losers Gore and Kerry. But what have the Demokrauts done in 2yrs --> Nothing. Change is definately needed and more of the same (McCain) will not help.

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Great - what the US needs is another delusional president!

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"McCain, a former Navy pilot and Vietnam prisoner of war, dismissed the sour poll numbers and said his campaign is “doing fine.”

Right, when his campaign is not imploding or being split by bitter infighting, which is, like, every day.

“You kinda get the feeling that the Obama campaign thinks this whole election process is just a formality,” she [Palin] said, accusing the Democratic ticket of overconfidence. “They’ve overlooked, though, the minor detail of earning your confidence and your trust and winning your vote."

Meanwhile, Palin has overlooked the minor detail that you have to garner more support in the greatest number of states to win the election, something she and her running mate mccain just ain't doing!

But it's all the fault of the 'gotcha!' liberal media elite and all those really difficult questions Sarah Palin gets asked in the few interviews she does, questions like 'What books do you read?' (which - unbelievably - couldn't answer)

What I want to know is how can Americans take mccain seriously when his own pick for the job of VP, someone who is supposed to be well-versed in and be able to uphold the laws of the land, just ignores subpoenas, encourages her activist husband to do likewise, and then mere weeks later, when Sarah Palin is caught red-handed wasting $150K of donor money buying clothes and cosmetics, turn around and tell a bold-faced lie that these are 'not mine' and that they are going to charity?

If Palin and mccain are the best the GOP has, it's not surprise whatsoever they are going down like the Titanic.

Choices, Republicans, you need to make better choices and stop blaming Dems, the media and whoever else for YOUR OWN BAD CHOICES. :-)

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"John McCain insisted Sunday that he is making a comeback and will defeat Democrat Barack Obama, discounting the Illinois senator’s lead in most national and key state polls."

In the battleground states of -

Michigan Virginia North CarolinaNevada New Hampshire New Mexico Indiana Missouri Colorado Ohio Iowa

the list below shows the states John McCain is currently leading in:

Source: www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/battleground.html

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Sarge, your assertion is bogus. Observe, straight from http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/10/militarypoll100508w/ :

McCain, R-Ariz., handily defeated Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., 68 percent to 23 percent in a voluntary survey of 4,293 active-duty, National Guard and reserve subscribers and former subscribers to Army Times, Navy Times, Marine Corps Times and Air Force Times.

Not all of us subscribe to these periodicals. Hmmm, wonder when they'll ask the rest of us for our opinions...

The results of the Military Times 2008 Election Poll are not representative of the opinions of the military as a whole. The group surveyed is older, more senior in rank and less ethnically diverse than the overall armed services.

Shameless cherry-picking, again, from Sarge.

PS: Sorry for the cut-n-paste, gang, but I'm just fighting fire with fire...

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"McCain dismisses poll numbers."

Thankfully, there's only 9 days left before America dismisses john mccain and Sarah Palin.

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For the first time in 8 long years, America is soon going to be led by a young man who is smart, switched-on, articulate, compassionate, who wants to unite rather than divide his country, and who can string 2 sentences together in his native tongue without screwing it up....

I and many millions of patriotic Americans look forward to November 5th, 2008.

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I see the Lieutenant doesn't have any answer to my question, "How is Obama going to give a tax cut to 95% of American workers when 40% of American workers don't pay taxes?" either. Heh.

Anyone who believes Obama is going to give a tax cut to 95% of American workers is plain dumb.

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While America's next president Barack Obama addressed a crowd of well over 100,000 in Denver yesterday, John McCsain was busy trying to unsuccessfully unattach himself from being perceived George Bush's clone.

As one of my good American friends said yesterday, "When Obama wins, for the first time in a long time I will feel REALLY proud to be an American."

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Sarge, get ready for President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden.

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McCain: "Yeah, I think we're gonna lose"

Now THAT would be newsworthy.

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sarge said:

I see the Lieutenant doesn't have any answer to my question, "How is Obama going to give a tax cut to 95% of American workers when 40% of American workers don't pay taxes?" either. Heh.

That question has been answered correctly several times. sarge just didn't like the answer.

Next!

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Sarge, get ready for President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden.

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"John McCain insisted Sunday that he is making a comeback and will defeat Democrat Barack Obama,"

do Americans need any more proof that The Great American Traitor John McCain, who was caught earlier this year trying to sell out American jobs to EADS and who has spent months selling out American ethics and ideals, will say absolutely anything to win?

Moderator: Please do not use phrases such as The Great American Traitor. They are inflammatory, inappropriate, lower the level of discussion and make you look bad.

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Sushi, goodDonkey - Get ready for President McCain and Vice President Palin.

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Sarge, get ready for President McCain and Vice President Palin.

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“We’ve closed in the last week,” said McCain. “We’ll continue to be very competitive in many of the battleground states.”

Then McCain started shaking his fists uncontrollably and blinking at a rapid pace and blurted out, "I can see Russia from here." "Palin will take charge of the senate" "So if she wants to she can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes that will make life better." (I recall those dolls when I was young that you would pull their string and they would repeat phrases) "Obama is a socialist." “This is going to be a very close race, and I believe I’m going to win it,” he said. “We’ll continue to be very competitive in many of the battleground states.” And sarge will just keep pulling that string, through election day, through the inauguration and eventually those dolls wear out and just say one phrase over and over when you pull the string. Will it be "I'm not Bush" or maybe "Obama says he want to spread the wealth around." I think the doll I remember the girl behind my house was called a Chatty Cathy.

It seems to me that some of the posters here repeat phrases also. So we have a Chatty McCain and on JT we have a Chatty...

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"The Republican Party is atomizing, and each faction must participate in Project BLAME. The neocons may want to blame the theocons. The economic conservatives will likely blame the big spenders. The conflagration will be so multi-dimensional we'll need a program to sort out the players. They will need to answer fundamental questions: What does it mean to be a Republican? Do Republicans support laissez-faire or nationalized banking? Do Republicans support a balanced budget or half-trillion-dollar deficits? Do Republicans want a "humble foreign policy" like George W. Bush, or preventive war against countries that pose no threat, like, umm, George W. Bush? Are Republicans the party of limited government or a vast Medicare prescription drug benefit? Are they wary of Big Brother or eager to expand warrantless wiretaps? Do they support Christian values or torture? Are they the party that believes that cutting-edge technology can shoot a missile out of the sky or the party that believes humans and dinosaurs walked the earth simultaneously?"

www.huffingtonpost.com/james-carville-and-paul-begala/let-the-blame-game-begin_b_136223.html

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If McCain is a "little ,or tiny or microscopic" what one will call all ,ALL political leaders, business leaders ,CEOs of big corporations who have been exporting American jobs overseas for so many years?... and consumers who keep buying products "made in foreign countries"?

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Lieutenant: "Sarge, get ready for President McCain and Vice President Palin."

If you insist.

Moderator: Readers, no more of this pointless tit-for-tat. It adds nothing to the discussion.

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Actually I must confess some of those phrases were from the Chatty Sarah Diva doll.

But her dress collection is in the range of $35,000. per haute couture outfit.

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Sarge,

Keep trying the campaign for answers on tax relief for all those $0 tax payers.

In the meantime, how about the Earned Income Credit? Could that do it?

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"I can see Russia from here."

"I didn't fire him, he quit."

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Fortunately, McCain has next to no one fooled. Welcome President Obama and VP Biden.

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The trouble is that McCain has just banged on for ever about being a POW in a war that took place in the middle of the last century. Frankly, who cares? It is long since just history.

What people care about is the shambles thet deregulated markets have bought down on everyone's heads. That is REPUBLICAN deregulation.

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If I were McCain I'd dismiss the numbers too. Polls this election cycle have been completely wacked. Even MSNBC commetators are pointing out, polls this time mean squat. When the very liberal Keith Olberman says that, then there is something to it. Another point, in 2004 Kerry was 4 to 8 points ahead of Bush in the polls this exact time, 8 days before the election, Kerry stayed there all the way to election day, but lost the big burrito. Polls are pointless.

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I think john mccain would have done better had he picked Paris Hilton as his running mate instead of Sarah Hilton :-)

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“It is not mean-spirited and it is not negative campaigning to call someone out on their record, and their plans and their associations,” she said. “It is not negative campaigning. It is fairness to you, to the voters, that we talk about this.”

You tell em Sarah, Media sure hasn't done it's job on Obama.

I did find one mainstream journalist who at least still values his integrity as a journalist first from ABC news. Good on you Michael Malone.

Oct. 24, 2008 —

The traditional media are playing a very, very dangerous game -- with their readers, with the Constitution and with their own fates.

The sheer bias in the print and television coverage of this election campaign is not just bewildering, but appalling. And over the last few months I've found myself slowly moving from shaking my head at the obvious one-sided reporting, to actually shouting at the screen of my television and my laptop computer.

But worst of all, for the last couple weeks, I've begun -- for the first time in my adult life -- to be embarrassed to admit what I do for a living. A few days ago, when asked by a new acquaintance what I did for a living, I replied that I was "a writer," because I couldn't bring myself to admit to a stranger that I'm a journalist.

You need to understand how painful this is for me. I am one of those people who truly bleeds ink when I'm cut. I am a fourth-generation newspaperman. As family history tells it, my great-grandfather was a newspaper editor in Abilene, Kan., during the last of the cowboy days, then moved to Oregon to help start the Oregon Journal (now the Oregonian).

My hard-living -- and when I knew her, scary -- grandmother was one of the first women reporters for the Los Angeles Times. And my father, though profoundly dyslexic, followed a long career in intelligence to finish his life (thanks to word processors and spellcheckers) as a very successful freelance writer. I've spent 30 years in every part of journalism, from beat reporter to magazine editor. And my oldest son, following in the family business, so to speak, earned his first national byline before he earned his drivers license.

So, when I say I'm deeply ashamed right now to be called a "journalist," you can imagine just how deep that cuts into my soul.

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=6099188

I'm really going to interested in the responses to this post after reading the link.

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Unless there's some planned conspiracy I don't know how one could dismiss the reality.

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Sez - It's up to the Obama campaign to answer my mail. I'm not going to keep sending them mails.

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Obama would Dinken-ize America. If any posters lived in NYC during his administration you will know what to expect. Never trust polls, a ground swell of white voters in NY, Ohio, Florida and Pennsylvania could make McCain a shoe-in. Ever wonder why Obama's granny didn't show up at his nomination? Too sick you say; Teddy Kennedy has a terminal brain tumor and he was there.

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didn't Kerry lead the majority of polls 4 years ago?... so there might be something to dismissing these "polls"

Don't know about the rest of you Yanks, but I've already voted and as long as the ballot doesn't get 'disenfranchised' by the Dems, it should be counted too.

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Sailwind,

Here's my response to the person who wrote the piece you linked above.

From link: The absolute nadir (though I hate to commit to that, as we still have two weeks before the election) came with Joe the Plumber. Middle America, even when they didn't agree with Joe, looked on in horror as the press took apart the private life of an average person who had the temerity to ask a tough question of a presidential candidate. So much for the standing up for the little man....

What exactly did the press uncover in putting the claims of this man under the microscope in accordance with Ronald Reagan's famous dictum, "trust but verify"? Well, that he'd misrepresented himself about being a plumber, since he was unlicensed, or in a position to buy a plumbing business, or in line to pay more taxes (when in fact he was a tax delinquent).

I, for one, am glad this information came out. If the press were not "free," we would never have known, for example, that when GWB lobbied for pre-election passage of his prescription drug plan for seniors, the biggest new entitlement spending in several decades, the administration hired actors to play journalists:

TV news reports in America that showed President George Bush getting a standing ovation from potential voters have been exposed as fake, it has emerged. The US government admitted it paid actors to pose as journalists in video news releases sent to TV stations intending to convey support for new laws about health benefits. Investigators are examining the film segments, in which actors pretending to be journalists praise the benefits of the new law passed last year by President Bush, to see if they could be construed as propaganda....Another video, intended for Hispanic viewers, shows a government official being interviewed in Spanish by a actor posing as a reporter with the name "Alberto Garcia".

Let's be honest, Bruce Willis, a Republican, could have been hired to play Joe the Plumber and who would be the wiser, particularly since the highest paid McCain campaign staffer is a make-up artist, without the press vetting someone's background after he became a national name?

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Yeah, man these anti-GOP journalists are so biased that McCain-Palin never had a chance. Like that raging liberal Karl Rove who said on Fox News today that McCain has "a steep hill to climb," projected that as of today Obama would win in a landslide and criticized the McCain campaign staff for infighting and disloyalty that undercut the ticket. What can McCain do to fight this tide of biased liberals who won't even cut him any slack when he puts them on his payroll.

Noted political columnist David Frum, who is about as liberal as Rove, in the Washington Post: "John McCain is losing in a way that threatens to take the entire Republican Party down with him ... [he] has alienated and offended the great national middle, which was the only place where the 2008 election could have been won."

Plus the BBC polled people in 22 countries and found in every single country, Obama had more support than McCain. Stupid biased world! We will bomb them until they understand freedom and democracy means agreeing with American neocons!

I don't have a problem with pragmatic conservatism. I think George H.W. Bush was a highly underrated President. But McCain ran a lousy campaign in what was not a favorable year for the GOP. You want to ban abortion, cut taxes and build up the military then run on that, don't support the same trillion dollar bailout as the Democrat and then call the other guy a socialist and then cry when the media calls you a hypocrite.

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sailwind - my comment to that article is that he needs to get out of his profession if he's that embarrassed about it.

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Much outrage has been expressed over the prospect of Obama's "spreading the wealth around" which has been attributed to a socialist agenda. Yet this is exactly what happened under GWB when he established the Department of Homeland Security:

When the presidential candidates talk about big government, it doesn't get any bigger than the Department of Homeland Security....Take for example the Urban Area Security Initiative, a DHS program that provides funding to states to improve local security and response efforts. Rather than provide UASI monies to the places most at risk, Congress has allowed UASI money to be spread nationally, giving a little bit to everyone and everywhere, including places with questionable exposure to terrorist events, like rural areas and small towns. It was UASI that, famously, allotted more money per capita to remote towns in states like Wyoming than to New York City and Washington, D.C....

The DHS was barely mentioned in the campaign by anyone, yet this represents a misallocation of public funds in an effort "to spread the wealth around" reflecting a form of political patronage.

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Just another liar. Don't let the door hit you on the way out McCain and Palin. All your Republican Senators and Representatives are joining you. At last the old thinking right wing is on the way out along with all the other lying bigoted religious freaks. Maybe something will actually happen to boost society instead of sending it back into the dark ages.

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Time for Mccain to rest. There wouldn't be any other better time to pal around with your grand children than after Nov.4.

Sarah, at least you kept us tickled all they way. I can't imagine how boring John's team would have been without you. Alaska is not far, go back and continue hunting, playing hocky, Oh and those six pack! Just don't forget to return the clothes they bought for you.

Its over.

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Sarge,

I'm disappointed that the Obama campaign did not respond to you. Perhaps they sussed your question as a Joe-the-Plumber question and decided you weren't the effort. However, it is not up to the Obama campaign to respond to your email so much as it is up to you to educate yourself on this issue.

I'm assuming that you've read the details of Obama's tax plan. If not, you can read it here:

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/taxes/Factsheet_Tax_Plan_FINAL.pdf

However, this will give you a shorter answer:

http://tinyurl.com/6aesc7

Again, I think you've become infatuated with misdirection. McCain also supports give-aways in some cases and that also is redistribution of income (or "wealth" as he insists on miscalling it even though he should know better).

McCain also knows how Obama is going to make those tax cuts. But he's not telling you. Instead, he has opted to mislead you with irrelevant statistics and name-calling.

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Ever wonder why Obama's granny didn't show up at his nomination? Too sick you say; Teddy Kennedy has a terminal brain tumor and he was there.

You really expect a sick little old lady to stomp like a die-hard politician?

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“It is not mean-spirited and it is not negative campaigning to call someone out on their record, and their plans and their associations,” [Palin] said. “It is not negative campaigning. It is fairness to you, to the voters, that we talk about this.”

Absolutely true. The problem is that this is not what she has been doing.

She has not been calling Obama out. She had the opportunity to do that in her debate with Biden and avoided direct confrontation with someone who could speak for Obama.

And she has not been accurately representing Obama's record, plans and associations. What she has been doing is to deal in innuendos about his those things, suggesting that they imply something about which she has not one shred of evidence or proof. That is classic mudslinging and that is negative.

And as far as being fair to the voters is concerned, if she were being fair to voters she wouldn't misrepresent Obama. That also is negative campaigning.

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All I can say is ... dream on lying decietful republican party hopeful McCain. You are just like the rest of the republican figureheads of the past. Lie your way into office. NOT THIS TIME!

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can you put your hands in your head? Oh no!

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Just hypothesizing here, and Sarge, maybe you can forward this question to the John McCain Campaign Headquarters, but if mccain wins, will he promise to curtail once and for all the pork barrel earmarks he has sworn to obliterate, you know, like the billions in earmarks he voted for in the $700 billion bailout bill?

The American people need to call John McCain out on this because it is just another in a long list of examples of where the Republican presidential candidate has said one thing and then done entirely another.

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Another thing the American people need to call John McCain out on is why does Al Quaida support him?

Sarge, maybe you have a comment on this?

Hint: www.alternet.org/blogs/election08/104108/al_qaeda_endorses_john_mccain/

Also, why was former Republican presidential candidate Joe Lieberman quooted recently as saying: "When I go out, I say, 'I have a lot of respect for Sen. Obama. He's bright. He's eloquent.'"

Gosh, could he be looking ahead to a position in the coming Obama Administration?

www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/26/lieberman-starts-talking_n_137906.html

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Sailwind, I agree, the MSM is definitely biased - I began to notice a good few months ago, but hey, it's biased towards the right man for America - Barack Obama - so that's sweet in my book.

Also, if you want to talk about press bias, you might want to comment on the bush administration's practice of feeding pre-written text to high-ranking civilian and military officials for them to peddle the administration's 'official line' on the weekly talk shows?

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I still haven't received an answer from the Obama campaign to my question, how is Obama going to give 95% of American workers a tax cut when 40% of American workers don't pay taxes?

It is very simple Sarge By giving 95% of working and paying taxes workers a tax cut and those 40% who do not pay get a visit from the IRS

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Sarge - "It pretty much says it all in my book when the Iranian mis-leadership is gunning for a Democratic Party win in this election..."

Did you just make that up so you could post a retort to my URL-backed comment?

Can you post anything to back up your claim?

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And McCain believes he'll win the election - looks like dumb thoughts are in fashion at the moment

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sarge: "It pretty much says it all in my book when the Iranian mis-leadership is gunning for a Democratic Party win in this election..."

Let me give you a little lesson on how things tend to work when pride is involved; threats beget threats, and violence begets violence. Did the thought ever occur to you that perhaps the Iranians are for Obama winning because it would open up a chance for dialogue and possibly, just possibly, allow everyone a 'face-saving' way of resolving certain disputes and promoting peace? I mean, it's pretty clear if McCain gets in that he's going to take an even harder line towards Iran than Bush did, and it's also crystal clear where Bush's stance on Iran has gotten the world -- NOWHERE, except for threats of destruction, increased terrorism levels, promises to pursue nuclear ambitions (though Iran and the US differ on what they say is the nature of said ambitions), etc. McCain basically wants war, while with Obama there's a greater chance for peace. Again, instead of believing in the fear-mongering of Bush and McCain that not destroying Iran means they will destroy you, try to realize that most people, regardless of religion, etc., prefer peace and prosperity to war and destruction (or prosperity if you're bush/cheney).

Anyway, again, it's pretty clear that Obama being president means a greater chance for world peace and stability, while voting in McCain/Palin would mean at least a couple more wars you guys can't afford (nor can the world, for that matter).

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Anyway, one things that's always funny to watch on here is how hard the Republicans will try to point out to a non-American that, "You can't vote anyway, so your opinion doesn't matter", when you shoot their arguments down using logic and sound comments. BUT, if a country like Iran voices support for a candidate, suddenly it has all the meaning in the world both for the candidate they support (in this case Obama) and the candidate who has negative bias towards the country and wants to possibly start yet another war.

I don't really care that I can't vote, but I am most certainly still entitled to my opinion, as is anyone else. So it's nothing more than hypocrisy when people try to say one person's opinion doesn't matter but another's does when it suits their political agenda (even though that agenda may need to be tweaked a little for its lack of facts).

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smithinjapan - "Anyway, one things that's always funny to watch on here is how hard the Republicans will try to point out to a non-American that, "You can't vote anyway, so your opinion doesn't matter"

I just hit them with the fact that Europeans can read what Americans want more accurately than Republicans.

What's funny is that this is true in the majority of cases LOL!! :-)

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Dennis - Do you seriously believe that Obama is going to give 95% of tax-paying workers a tax cut, and that the IRS is going to visit the 40% of workers who don't pay taxes?

Sushi - www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/3244811/Iran-would-prefer-Barack-Obama-presidency.html

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Just as much as i believe that Mcain would, politicians lie that is their job. He will first appease those who funded money and then will do his own thing. Mcain is a president for the rich so more tax cuts for them and more cut backS for the normal people.

The republicans have bankrupted america and now the democrates can try to put it back on track again.

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How is Obama going to give 95% of American workers a tax cut when 40% of American workers don't pay taxes?

My friend, 'giving' a tax cut here means 'offering' a tax cut. It means 95% of Americans will be eligible for a tax cut.

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John McCain insisted Sunday that he is making a comeback

...in 2012, when he makes up from his well-deserved nap.

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Good point, Smith. Too bad irony is long on deniers like those you've identified.

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I agree, the MSM is definitely biased - I began to notice a good few months ago, but hey, it's biased towards the right man for America - Barack Obama

The reason you believe that Obama is the right man for America is because the MSM is so biased. You're in it so deep you don't even get it. How else can you possibly explain that Americans are about to elect as their next president a socialist who hates his own country?

Answer: CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, PBS, NPR, BBC, AP, Reuters, Time Warner, NY Times, LA Times,....

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Obama is offering a tax-cut for people who make less than $250,000 a year. I can bet thats a pretty big chunk of the US population as some of us aren't so fortunate to drive around in nice little benz coupes. My friend told me today that his dad is supporting McCain because he said Obama would raise taxes on the rich. His dad makes over a half million a year and I'm sitting there shaking my head...

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his dad is supporting McCain because he said Obama would raise taxes on the rich

Since the top 10% of earners already pay nearly 70% of the income taxes, I'd say his dad is pretty much right on.

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Helter - "The reason you believe that Obama is the right man for America is because the MSM is so biased."

Wrong, I believe it because I studied the policies and personalities of both candidates and choose the better of both people to support. The one I chose was not john mccain.

"You're in it so deep you don't even get it. How else can you possibly explain that Americans are about to elect as their next president a socialist who hates his own country?"

Wrong again. I don't need to explain your claim because I don't choose to believe this "socialist who hates his own country" mumbo jumbo.

I mean, do you? I know 8-year-olds who can see through the GOP propaganda and spin better than many Republicans.

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The reason you believe that Obama is the right man for America is because the MSM is so biased.

Can you please go a step further and explain why would CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, PBS, NPR, BBC, AP, Reuters, Time Warner, NY Times, LA Times,.... support a supposed "socialist who hates his own country". What's in it for them?

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Democrats should be very careful with the voting system. The last two elections, in reality, Al Gore and John Kerry won the presidential election. (although the pole gave them the victory before the election)

Republican McCain may win with the Bush’s cheating system.

http://www.gregpalast.com/

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And Helter, how do you equate "a socialist who hates his own country" with a man who wants to cut taxes for 95% of Americans, bring US troops out of a war zone and back home, who wants to spread wealth from people who have more than enough to those who don't have enough, and who wants to reduce spending on the Iraq war and spend it on Americans instead?

Your logic is beyond bogus.

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@SushiSake3

Not only has john mccain been caught receiving cash after selling out jobs of hard-working Americans when he backed the $35 billion Pentagon contract for a European plane maker EADS earlier this year

I'm no fan of John McCain - but suggesting that EADS being awarded the USAF Tanker contract was a sell out of American jobs is disingenuous. EADS was teamed with Northrop Grumman, and would have produced the Tankers in the US. American jobs were not being sold out - but the Airforce was - no new tankers.

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@Smithinjapan

I mean, it's pretty clear if McCain gets in that he's going to take an even harder line towards Iran than Bush did

And if he asks America's Allies to join another endless war he'll find that we're America's ex-Allies.

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I studied the policies and personalities of both candidates.

Could you clue us in what you found out about Obama? Be kinda nice to finally have a real comparision between the two as far as every little detail good or bad about their lives.

No need for any McCain details pretty much know all there is to know about him all the good and bad, mainly the bad though. So if you could start with how Obama got into Harvard for starters...maybe or something along the lines of how he was in High School, did he run the school paper things like that. As far as Harvard, I understand the tuition is pretty steep and he wasn't from a rich family so somebody had to help. Be nice to know what influence that person had on his life,be even nicer to know who that person was could you start there? I hate to ask but you know the media hasn't exactly helped me in really finding out about this guy at all don't you agree?

Betzee, I know more about Joe the Plumber than I really do about Obama. You don't find that the lest bit disconcerting that your voting for a man you really and truly have no idea about except his public mantra of "change" whatever the heck that is suppose to mean, I sure do.

And to the strident left that post here mocking Christians for having faith. Seems on one level to me many of you have more faith in the unknown. The unrefutable fact is Obama has the thinnest resume ever of any candidate that was nominated for to be President. That is called faith in the unknown and many of you have more of it than many Christians that I know believe it or not by your blind support for a Obama without really actually looking at what he really stands for besides "change".

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HelterSkelter - the more desperate you get, the more rubbish you come up with. No credible person, no matter how vehemently they support McCain or oppose Obama, would argue either that Obama is a socialist (not in the normal political definition of the term) or that he "hates his own country". That's about as credible as the confused old woman who called Obama an 'Arab' (as if that should be taken as a term of abuse - some of Dubya's best mates are Arabs...)

Honestly - grow up! Give us some convincing arguments why McCain is better, rather than parroting deliberate disinformation about Obama that only people like "Arab" woman would actually be deluded enough to believe. Trouble is, you can't. McCain is a decent man, ready for retirement. Give him what he deserves, and spare America from what it doesn't.

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the mentality of voters this election. I am sure to find one on McCain, the listen to this of voters for Obama in NY. The switched the McCain's policies, had Palin listed as Obama's running mate and people there still said they are behind him 100%.

http://www.bpmdeejays.com/upload/hs_sal_in_Harlem_100108.mp3

What or why aren't we hearing anything about the other people running for President? Why concentrate on just two - I thought you all wanted change? Well, you don't get it with either of them. No, you'll get change, in the sense of worse.

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I'm really going to interested in the responses to this post after reading the link.

I read the link and Malone should stick to reporting on high-tech. He obviously wasn't around when the media were sticking it to Al Gore and John Kerry -- and letting the worst politician in living memory, George W. Bush, have it easy.

It appears to me that the media drifts rightward when they sense the country is moving that way, and leftward when the political winds shift. These days, however, all anyone has to do to get right-slanted reports is to turn on Fox News or nearly any AM talk radio station. As far as I am concerned, opinionated reporting from either side is a good thing because it lets you know where the person doing the reporting stands on things.

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The unrefutable fact is Obama has the thinnest resume ever of any candidate that was nominated for to be President.

LOL! That is not an unrefutable fact. Abraham Lincoln's was very thin. So was Harry Truman's, when a gravely-ill FDR chose him to be VP, and the last president with no more than a high-school education. JFK's political resume wasn't all that thick either. And George W. Bush? Oh, come on. The power in Texas lies with the legislature, which doesn't meet for work all that often. Prior to being the Texas figurehead, W. Bush was a failed businessman and general drunkard. Some resume.

The two things we do know about Barack Obama is that he possesses a first-rate intellect and a first-rate temperment. If you haven't detected that by now, you just haven't been looking.

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As far as I am concerned, opinionated reporting from either side is a good thing because it lets you know where the person doing the reporting stands on things." True, but I think the thing is that who ever has the most momentum has people in their camps to try and prevent this. I believe you are correct that during the Kerry and Gore campaigns were just as you say, but I do believe this time around its against John McCain. In fact I think every time the guy ran, he got bad press.

Right now, you do have people in the dem camp trying to oust several broadcasters, writers, and reporters fired from their jobs because THEY feel that that station or media house isn't putting enough out for Obama.

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sailwind said:

The unrefutable [irrefutable] fact is Obama has the thinnest resume ever of any candidate that was nominated for to be President.

This is simply not true. The conservatives continue to try to pass this off as the truth but it is not. I have already posted this numerous times. Obama served almost 8 years in the Illinois State Senate. Obama resigned from the Illinois Senate in November 2004 following his election to the US Senate. In January of 2005 it would have been 8 years. Now he has 3 years, close to four, in the U.S. Senate. Abraham Lincoln served 8 years in the House of Reps. in Illinois but only 2 years as a Congressman for the U.S. Any way you look at it Obama had more experience with his well over 11 years than Lincoln's 10 years in office. His experience was senatorial instead of just House experience. His federal time in office more than makes up for the few months he was short of tying Lincoln for office in Illinois.

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this time around its against John McCain. In fact I think every time the guy ran, he got bad press.

And you would be wrong. When McCain ran as a real maverick in 2000, the press loved him and his "straight-talk express." Since that time, McCain has flip-flopped over to Bush's side on nearly every issue, richly earning him the disdain of just about anyone who covered him back in 2000.

Right now, you do have people in the dem camp trying to oust several broadcasters, writers, and reporters fired from their jobs because THEY feel that that station or media house isn't putting enough out for Obama.

I don't believe that for one second.

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Obama has the thinnest resume ever...

So? Who, honestly really cares? Even if GD's post is proven untrue, it wouldn't make a difference. People chose the candidate that the media chooses. If you want to be elected, get the media on your side.

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yabits: I said I think. Sorry, but I really wasn't too involved in the election that year.

I don't believe that for one second." We have NAS trying to get a boycott of Fox News. You have Huffering slamming reporters and small town local newspapers, and just look at the NYT sight. And that Ann Catu what ever her name is lady being boycotted.

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Recession, financial crisis, possible depression...my job , my money , job security..those things are dominating people's minds, and only 9 days to go. Obama promises to end burden on Iraq and take money from business ,from the rich and give it to the poor has an ubeatable attraction to voters(change from tax cuts for 95% working families to 95% tax cut for all Americans,even 40% do not pay tax.) .So McCain's win will be just a dream.

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So McCain's win will be just a dream." I was thinking of a nightmare.

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Well, judging by all the problems with vote flipping that are showing up already, McCain may be correct.

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Don't Kill the Messenger

Sophocles said it somewhere between 496 BC–406 BC in Antigone.

In the old testament in the Bible David killed the messenger who told him of Saul's and Jonathon's death in battle.

We still have sailwind, Helter_Skelter and sarge going after the messenger because they can't stand the news. Sarah Palin is corrupt. Kill the Messenger. Sarah Palin was spending vast amounts of money on her hair, makeup and "temporary" clothes. Kill the Messenger. McCain is losing. Kill the Messenger.

Don't forget the staged press conference that Bush held with the troops in Iraq back in October of 2005. His "people" went over the questions with the troops and advised the "go to man" (a captain) when to intervene. Shameless manipulation of information that was presented as spontaneous responses in a video conference.

I brought up two points earlier that have gone unanswered. Why didn't McCain bring up the issue of the Community Reinvestment Act if that is what caused the housing crisis? What exactly is the press not reporting on? I checked Obama's biography last time someone questioned it. It is complete and covers every area of his life. I did assemble some of the information but then I realized it would take more than a page to get all the details right. I should not have to post such a thing on JT when it is readily available on the web.

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Pigs, pink and hairy, were seen following the McCain trail, they were lipstick free but airborne. All hail President Wanna Be.

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Betzee, I know more about Joe the Plumber than I really do about Obama. You don't find that the lest bit disconcerting that your voting for a man you really and truly have no idea about except his public mantra of "change" whatever the heck that is suppose to mean, I sure do.

Where have you been, Sailwind? Wasn't it McCain's campaign manager, Rick Davis, who said that if the campaign is about issues, McCain loses; but if it's about Obama's "character," then McCain can win. As a result, we've been treated to far more information about William Ayers and Hyde Park than we have about Sarah Palin's tenure as Mayor of Wasilla.

As for Obama's admission to Harvard, did you make similar disclosure demands about how GWB got into Harvard? Or why Sarah Palin attended four different institutions in pursuit a BA?

Please have the intellectual honesty to admit you don't want the guy to become president and you're looking for whatever ammunition you can to prevent that. If this doesn't work, then I'll try that. The collective anger at the press on the part of McCain supporters here is misdirected; what you're really angry about is that the electorate doesn't share your selective outrage.

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Betzee get out and find your own information and stop just watching the news and letting the polls and media decide for you.

I have read up on Obama read his book and anything bad and good, and checked facts.

Do it for yourself, and feel better about your choice. I do.

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We have NAS trying to get a boycott of Fox News...

You specifically stated that the reason some people were taking action was because the media houses "weren't putting enough out for Obama."

That's a gross mischaracterization of reality. Nas's boycott of Fox has nothing to do with not putting out enough, but that much of what Fox does put out has racist overtones. That's a BIG difference. As for the other things, you'll have to provide more details, but I don't believe for one minute that anyone is trying to get anyone fired for not putting out enough about Barack Obama.

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The collective anger at the press on the part of McCain supporters here is misdirected; what you're really angry about is that the electorate doesn't share your selective outrage.

That is hitting the nail right on the head!

There are those who Karl Rove conned into voting for the incompetent George W. Bush -- twice perhaps -- who realize they have been conned and will not vote for the second coming of George W. Bush in John McCain. Then there are the really sorry ones: the ones who don't even realize that Bush was a con job.

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Sorry Betzee...I mean the person talking to you

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William Kristol, resident NYT's neocon, noted that:

Last week’s New York Times/CBS News poll showed 64 percent of voters saying McCain is spending more time attacking the other candidate than explaining what he would do as president. Just 22 percent say the same of Obama.

When you’re in a hole, stop digging. McCain could order his campaign to pull all negative ads, mailers and robocalls.

Good advice, but far too late in the game for such a change to matter. And McCain's not going to follow it anyway.

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yabits, you are pegging me wrong. First of all, Google, Wikipedia, and Yahoo have all shut down/blocked sights that are anti-Obama. Syrius has quieted content that was considered anti-obama The NY POst was scolded for not being pro-Obama now, I may have crossed my words wrong. I don't care if McCain doesn't get enough time and I don't care if Obama gets enough. What concerns me is not complaining that either of getting fair share, but goign to the extreme to shut them up concerns me. Additionally, any negative Obama content is being shut down from almost all Universities web servers.

Again, I don't care. If we are going to hit news agencies, or those with what you feel have racist content, I can sure you hundreds. If Nas wasn't a support of Obama, then this wouldn't be the accusation.

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Interesting

I asked a simple question.

No need for any McCain details pretty much know all there is to know about him all the good and bad, mainly the bad though. So if you could start with how Obama got into Harvard for starters...maybe or something along the lines of how he was in High School, did he run the school paper things like that. As far as Harvard, I understand the tuition is pretty steep and he wasn't from a rich family so somebody had to help. Be nice to know what influence that person had on his life,be even nicer to know who that person was could you start there?

I got attacked..........Somebody just please tell me how he got into Harvard, Mccain got into the Naval Academy by family connections what a suprise, how did Obama get into Harvard?

This isn't rocket science, it's what do you really know about the guy your voting for President....So far not much.

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As far as Harvard, I understand the tuition is pretty steep and he wasn't from a rich family so somebody had to help.

Sailwind,

Acceptance and financial aid are two separate things; applicants are evaluated on a "need blind" basis. For those admitted, there's something called "student loans" which many rely on to get through (at all levels).

Moderator: Back on topic please.

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If the sites are hateful, racist, or other ways offensive (and after the outburst at Palin/McCain rallies), I would guess they are.

If they are, I think that "Google, Yahoo, etc" were protecting their image and America's international democratic image. As many Japanese people I speak to already think all white Americans hate all black Americans.

Though I agree it is important to question the bias if the objected sites in question were not offensive or hateful.

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Sailwind,

Far from asking an honest question in an attempt to learn more about a candidate's academic pedigree, you are instead trying to insinuate some unsavory benefactor must have picked up the tab for Obama's pricey law school education since he was from a family of modest means.

Moderator: Stay on topic please.

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skipthesong - The nightmare will be if Obama wins.

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There's a real fear that McCain is going to take the rest of the GOP over the cliff with him:

Maine Republican Sen. Susan Collins is urging GOP presidential contender John McCain to stop making automated calls into her state that link Democratic nominee Barack Obama to a 1960s radical.

Collins spokesman Kevin Kelley says such tactics have no place in Maine politics and Collins wants the McCain campaign to stop these calls immediately.

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Sailwind,

Far from asking an honest question in an attempt to learn more about a candidate's academic pedigree,

Betzee

I do not appreciate the inference that I am a liar for asking what I really want to know.

Thanks

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Sail, why don't you just look it up yourself?

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I dare to say that if Obama doesn't have at least a 15 point lead in the polls in the last couple of days before the election, he will not win it.

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Sail, why don't you just look it up yourself?

Gonna have to, mainstream media has not been to helpful to fill that gap in his life. Sushi did you know McCain was at the bottom of his class?

Didn't have to look that one up you and others were more than happy to save me the trouble.

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I do not appreciate the inference that I am a liar for asking what I really want to know.

If you really cared, why didn't you take the time to find out before you voted for McCain? I stand by my assertion, you are trying to cast doubts about Obama in the minds of others.

Moderator: Keep the discussion civil, please.

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obama has not held a press conference in over a month. when a tv reporter challenged joe biden in an interview last week and brought up joe the plumber again the campaign angrily declared they would grant no more interviews. America deserves better.

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One McCain supporter is complaining we've heard too much about Joe the Plumber while our resident troll is claiming we haven't heard enough:

Betzee, 1) I know more about Joe the Plumber than I really do about Obama 2) brought up joe the plumber again the campaign angrily declared they would grant no more interviews.

After Joe the Plumber wasn't not quite what he claimed, the McCain campaign went looking for a "Joe of Trades," you know a licensed professional who didn't owe back taxes. But they dropped it when Joe's plight didn't resonate with the public.

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sarge: "I dare to say that if Obama doesn't have at least a 15 point lead in the polls in the last couple of days before the election, he will not win it."

I dare say that all he needs is one. Why would he not win with less than a 15 point lead? The people that still support McCain have been going on and on about how 'the polls can be misleading' and that 'McCain is still in this', etc., etc., and maybe they're right -- maybe Obama already has a 30 point lead an the polls are simply 'misleading'.

Some polls say it's tight, and at least one poll says McCain is closing, but heaps and heaps say Obama is far ahead. We'll see what happens, but it's a pretty safe bet that as long as the media says Obama is ahead and that is reflected in the polls, than it's pretty representative of how things are going to turn out.

Again, all this talk about the polls being misleading does not necessarily mean things are going to shift in McCain's favour -- it could just as easily mean that Obama will win by a MASSIVE landslide. Can't claim one without the other being possible.

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The bookmakers are giving 9:1 chances for Barrack Hussein, so it is pretty sure that the world will get to enjoy an radical lefist president, supported by majorities in both houses. I hope the majority that votes in this way is ready for what is coming, including improvements to a "flawed" US constitution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck

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Helter_Skelter,

The top 300,000 American earners earn about as much as the bottom 150,000,000. I don't feel so bad that their collective tax share is about 70%.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/business/29tax.html

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Agreed

After Joe the Plumber wasn't not quite what he claimed, the McCain campaign went looking for a "Joe of Trades," you know a licensed professional who didn't owe back taxes. But they dropped it when Joe's plight didn't resonate with the public.

Joe is pretty pathetic, had the gall to ask Obama a hard question knowing his background would then instantly scrutinized by the media. Though no worries all is forgiven.

Joe's going to get a nice tax break under Obama so any unrealistic dreams that he might have harbored through his working stiff head that he might actually make more of himself through hard work is pretty much moot now. He can sit back and enjoy that the rich are going pay for it now.

Nice

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McCain once claimed "Obama would rather lose a war than an election." In fact it's clear the Senator from Arizona is willing to risk taking his whole party down with him rather than lose an election.

Susan Collins, a moderate Republican trying to hold on to her Senate seat in Maine, is no doubt not alone in wishing the McCain campaign would stay away from her constituents.

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NO MORE FEUDALISM, since most of America's wealth is distributed to the richest few families.

Think about

INCOME TAX----Then think about what you are arguing about, Medicare, Medicaid, and Military Veterans Benefits.

Just Think.

We're already socialist, I'll say it again " We're seen what a right wing government can do for the past 8 years, let's try a lefty."

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sailwind: "Joe is pretty pathetic, had the gall to ask Obama a hard question knowing his background would then instantly scrutinized by the media. Though no worries all is forgiven."

The reason 'Joe the (unqualified) Plumber' became the media frenzy he is is because McCain used him as a pawn for his questioning of Obama, not merely because he questioned Obama himself. McCain plastered his name all over the media, and Joe the Plumber became a media spotlight, and the media then dug up his past. Look at Palin; she's another example of a McCain victim; none of her scandals were receiving the attention they deserved before McCain put her on a pedestal and talked about how 'honest' and against this and that she was, when in reality she was all for the things he said she was against (the bridge to nowhere as an example of pork barrel spending, etc.).

Stop pretending Joe is in the media because he asked Obama a question. He's in the media, and has been subsequently ruined BY the media, because McCain wanted a soundbite and desperately needed something to boost his ratings. Both failed, and now so has Joe's career.

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Just think, if Bush's pals on the Supreme Court didn't stop Florida from examining legally-cast ballots, and if the Republicans in Florida didn't improperly remove thousands of registered voters, the Republican Party would be in FAR better shape today, not to mention the nation.

Sorry, John McCain, there just aren't any states where your brother is governor and where the Secretary of State is the head of your campaign. Even if you had ten such states, you're going to lose THIS year.

Anyone read how the Chicago Tribune, for the very time in its history, has endorsed a Democrat for president! Also, the main paper in Anchorage, Alaska, has also endorsed Barack Obama.

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skipthesong,

I'm not sure what you're talking about that Google et. al. have closed down anti-Obama sites. I just googled f** Obama and got 13,500,000 hits. Of course I didn't examine all the web sites. I suppose it could* be true that the vast majority use that as an expression of affection.

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Smith,

As a letter writer to the NYT's observed:

In Wednesday’s debate, Senator John McCain clearly thought his condescension to “Joe the Plumber” laudable, but I have to wonder how he would like being repeatedly referred to as “John the Politician.”

If “John” had really wanted to demonstrate his respect for “Joe the Plumber,” calling him Mr. Wurzelbacher would have been a good place to start.

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McCain will surely win. Unless that damn Rapture gets in the way.

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Honestly, when Americans look back over the last 8 years and stick up their hands and actually want vote for more of the same through John McCain, you've really got to wonder whether they have all their marbles.

I'm not kidding. It's unreal.

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The reason 'Joe the (unqualified) Plumber' became the media frenzy he is is because McCain used him as a pawn for his questioning of Obama, not merely because he questioned Obama himself.

He's in the Media because of Obama's answer, it wasn't the answer that helped him, get your facts straight. Obama's less then stellar response is what caused Joe to become the target you know that I know that please quit playing games.

If Obama would have answered and of shot it outta of the park and Joe said, Thanks you have got my support, would the media had vetted him then?????????????

Give it a rest folks, Obama blew it in his answer and you went on the attack to Joe for asking it. That is sad.

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Sail - I don't see what the big fuss is about 'Joe The Plumber' anyway.

He is just 1 out of - how many - 150 million working Americans.

Do you think Joe represents 'all working Americans' or something???

Most of the rest of us don't.

Talking about our friend Joe is like baying at the moon - you'll make lots of noise but you'll never get there.

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Personally I think McCain has finally gotten it right by saying he is a check on the democratic house and senate if elected. I never want the same party to have all 3 branches of government Republican or Demoncrat. Obama will probably win and you better believe there will be higher taxes with a Pelosi, Reed, and Obama controlled government.

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sailwind: "If Obama would have answered and of shot it outta of the park and Joe said, Thanks you have got my support, would the media had vetted him then?????????????"

Sorry, amigo. You've got it wrong, and it's as I said: Joe the Plumber was made a mockery and a legend as such because McCain brought him into the spotlight as 'the average Joe' (and people like yourself made him the torch bearer of a plight because you believed that he was a spokesperson for what Obama could not answer) and it was then revealed that, unlike the average Joe, he didn't pay his taxes (or at least, owed a lot of back taxes), and didn't have the qualifications for the job he declared that he HAD them for. So you see, he became a mockery and was scrutinized AFTER McCain tried to make him a legend and torch bearer.

If people like Mr. Wurzelbacher were made media frenzies simply because they didn't get a good answer for a question they asked, EVERY SINGLE PERSON who asked Bush an honest question (not one of the republican party plants) would be famous, as would everyone who's ever asked a candidate something and not gotten a good answer -- be said candidate democrat or republican.

"Give it a rest folks, Obama blew it in his answer and you went on the attack to Joe for asking it. That is sad."

Nah, sad is sticking up for some guy who doesn't pay taxes and works in a job he has no license for, then blaming a presidential candidate (who doesn't deserve it) because it all came to light. What's more, if 'Obama blew it', then why when he told the truth about his tax breaks during the debate and when John McCain tried to blast Obama with 'Joe the Plumber' did Obama fire back and McCain was caught like a deer in headlights? THAT was when Joe became a lost cause for McCain, and all the dirt on the former was dug up and the self-proclaimed plumber's rep. went... well... down the toilet.

Anyway, I've got to agree with Sushi... the whole Joe the fake Plumber thing is overrated, and the man has already been ruined by the likes of McCain and his supporters trying to make him a hero when he is nothing but.

Let's get back to the two presidential candidates, and let Joe work on getting his license. Good night, sailwind.

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USAexpat - "and you better believe there will be higher taxes with a Pelosi, Reed, and Obama controlled government."

I'm confused - are you surprised there will be higher taxes?

I'm not. Not in the slightest.

There's been a war with a price tag going on $2 trillion, there's been bailouts and pork barrel spending to the tune of another $1 trillion in just the last month alone, there's the war in Afghanistan, and amidst all of it, President Bush has cut taxes.

Now, US national debt stands at a smidgen under $10 trillion.

Oh, and from next year there's going to be millions of baby boomers beginning to retire and Medicare/Medicaid costs will continue to skyrocket.

Sorry, with all due respect, WHY do you think the next president won't have to raise taxes and raise them significantly at some stage?

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sailwind said:

Joe is pretty pathetic, had the gall to ask Obama a hard question knowing his background would then instantly scrutinized by the media. Though no worries all is forgiven.

/

He's in the Media because of Obama's answer, it wasn't the answer that helped him, get your facts straight. Obama's less then stellar response is what caused Joe to become the target you know that I know that please quit playing games.

I never heard of Joe the Plumber. Senator John McCain initially brought up Joe the Plumber as an example. He mentioned him 26 times. Then you have a plumber associated with making $250,000. and people's ears perk up. So don't blame Obama for the Joe the Plumber incident. It was John McCain who thrust him onto the world stage. This happens all the time in non-political circumstances. Someone is brought to light by a tragic incident or a heroic incident or whatever. The press then scrutinizes that person and brings to light unfavorable information.

When you say "Obama's less then stellar response is what caused Joe to become the target you know that I know that..." then I hardly think that you understand cause and effect relationships. Because I know that Obama's response was not the cause of Joe being scrutinized by the press. He would have been long forgotten like so many others who asked a question that a candidate did not answer properly if it were not for McCain. McCain is why Joe got all that media attention.

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People want everything for free sushisake3

People want a trillion dollar military for millions, a hundred million dollar bailout for thousands, and an AIG party for $400,000

This anti-socialist banter is the ranting of a tumbling Rome's mob, hawkish conservative elitists with intangible expansionist goals, and the bum-bottom of Disney educated pro-Americans of "real America" or where ever Palin believes Americans live

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NetteMarie:

" This anti-socialist banter is the ranting of a tumbling Rome's mob, "

I don`t know what a "Rome´s mob" is, but socialism has been tried before and failed every time. That the most entrepreneurial country in the world would decide that taxing itself to wealth is a recipe for success is mind-boggling, indeed.

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That the most entrepreneurial country in the world would decide that taxing itself to wealth is a recipe for success is mind-boggling, indeed.

Wealth shouldn't be a concern, paying off debt should be. Nothing more ironic then people talking about how much wealth is generated in "the most entrepreneurial country" and what use to be it's capitalist sysyem(past tense), when their racking up the debt and nationalizing the capital market engine. The money for the hundreds of billions(trillion(s?)) in welfare is going to have to come from somewhere(taxes), so perhaps not taxing to become wealthy but taxing to stop from becoming a failed state would be a better way of thinking about.

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NetteMarie

You should see how many times I have stated that Bush, purchasing the Banks as he did, is the most socialistic practice there is. Government ownership of business is the epitome of socialism. None of them have ever bothered to refute that. Every employee in those banks works for the U.S. government and any profit or loss is distributed to every taxpayer.

I think Betzee is right in her assessment of anger being at the heart of all this ranting. Desperate conservatives have used disinformation as their last resort. Well maybe it is tied with playing the victim card. "The Obama win will be the result of media bias." "Poor John McCain the media never gave him a chance."

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usaexpat,

If the three branches of government do their jobs, we shouldn't need to select people from different parties in order for one branch of government to keep an eye on the other.

In any event, I think gridlock would be worse than having the Democrats control both the presidency and the legislature.

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GoodDonkey, I was thinking the same thing. When the press writes what goes along with your values and your vote, it's solid journalism (see: Ayers, William and flag lapel pins).

When they report on things you don't like (see: palin vetting), it's shoot the messenger time.

Taka

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McCain is still running?

Heh, it's got to be only for the comical value. I think the only way the McCain camp could upset a landslide Obama victory would actually be by dropping out of the race.

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sarge, buddy, you have my respect for fighting on courageously.....somewhat like the Knight in Monty Python.

Mere flesh-wounds m'boy.

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"That the most entrepreneurial country in the world would decide that taxing itself to wealth is a recipe for success is mind-boggling, indeed."

No one is suggesting the US becoma a socialist country. Just a shift away from the gang anal-rape it's received over the last 8 years from Bush Co wouldn't be a bad start, methinks.

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McCain and Palin are no choice really. The old fart and the empty head. But I think those of you cheering for Chairman Barrack are going to be slightly suprised at what goes down when he takes the oval office. You get what you ask for, but it's not always as advertised.

I'm neitehr Dem or Republican, but I read an intersting article (by a Democrat by the way) that blames our current financial crisis and the mortgage fiasco on the Dems and old slick Willie Clinton's decision to pass legislatin relaxing mortgage qualification requirements so that those of lower income could buy houses. Sounded good but turned into a nightmare, and both parties ignored the warning signs and red flags from serious economists who knew what they were talking about. Idiots like Barney Frank (i.e. Barney Fife). No my friends we're heading down the road to a seious recession/depression, and while God help me I hope your boy Obama can pull out a few miracles I don't know if tax and spend and supposedly 'spreading the wealth' is gonna do it. I just resent that the democrats blame it all on the Republicans when both have had their hands in the pie. Sorry if I'm a bit skeptical to get excited over a borderline Socialist who seems to hate capitalism. I certainly couldn't get excited about that doddering old fool and his rather dim running mate (although I'm quite impressed that she reads 'all of them' when asked which newspapers she prefers - that's well read!). If you note heavy sarcasm I can only say that this country hasn't produced a decent Prez since FDR.

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Still think he can win? The man is delusional. Maybe he has gone senile, well he is rather old.

The poor dear should be sitting in fron of tv with his pipe and slippers, not running round the country like mad.

ooooh, he'll be unwell, silly old fool!

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sezwho2- Gotta diagree with you on that one. Since I detest both parties gridlock is the best model for government. I don't think it's keeping an eye on each other just denying free reign for whatever dismal agenda either party has. You might guess I prefer the libertatrian model.

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The man is delusional. Maybe he has gone senile...silly old fool!

First, McCain is saying exactly what any politician would say when they're behind in the polls. The election isn't over till it's over and they need to keep their supporter and voters active. It's done by democrats and republicans in races that are far more lopsided than this.

Also, I don't recall ever seeing so much disrespect for the elderly as I've seen coming from the leftists. Anyone who believes they're the party of compassion is a dupe. The compassion comes only when there's political gain to be had. Otherwise, they're as nasty as we're seeing in their posts.

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usaexpat,

No, governments have to move and they have to move in some direction. There should be opposition but there should not be gridlock. There is nothing libertarian about gridlock.

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sailwind,

You say that,

...Obama blew it in his answer and you went on the attack to Joe for asking it. That is sad.

Did you actually watch the interchange? Obama hardly went on the attack. He was asked a question and he gave an answer. Talking to Joe was like talking to a newel post. No matter how many times Obama tried to explain his concept to Joe, Joe remained obtuse.

In the last 30 seconds of the interchange, Obama resorted to a cliche. People of good will recognize that cliche for what it was--an appeal to basic fairness in the system of taxation, a claim that America will work better if the tax burden--already an income redistribution system--is modified so that the widening gap between the very wealthy and the rest of us does not widen quite so quickly. People who want to make Obama into some sort of terrorist Trotsky-ite claim that he wants to install state socialism and that we're one slippery slope away from Joe Stalin and pogroms in the red states.

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WilliB,

Socialism has failed every time in the same way that capitalism has failed every time. I think you are talking about state socialism. That has never worked. And neither has laissez-faire capitalism.

Every society must have elements of socialism and elements of capitalism. If an examination of "successful" societies (and there have been none of those in the long term) tells us anything, it tells us that. The question for any society is how much socialism we should have.

For some in the US, it seems that a progressive income tax is OK. That's not socialism. And a 36% top tax rate is OK, that's not socialism either. But a 39% top tax rate just will not stand!

This has nothing to do with socialism.

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He was asked a question and he gave an answer.

Indeed. Joe Wurzelbacher explained to Obama, "I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes 250 to 280 thousand dollars a year." He then asked, Your new tax plan's going to tax me more, isn't it?

Due to the media's background check, which many McCain supporters such as Sailwind found objectionable, we know Mr. Wurzelbacher was in no financial position to buy a business. Obviously he misrepresented himself as successful when he was in fact struggling, hardly the crime of the century. It was McCain who chose to make him a national name, or more specifically to make "Joe the Plumber" a household "word."

Well, in no time he was on his way to becoming a folk hero. I saw a photo of someone standing with a sign which read, "Joe the Plumber gets my vote to unclog Washington." He was the true Washington outsider well equipped to take on the system. No doubt somebody had already written the first draft of a screenplay, "Joe the Plumber Goes to Washington." Bruce Willis' agent had probably received a call as well; personally I've always though Bruce was an underrated actor and this could have been the role that nabbed him an Academy Award. Alas, until the details of Mr. Wurzelbacher's life came to light. I presume McCain canceled that meeting with him (Joe not Bruce) to discuss the needs and requirements of the small business owner in Obama's socialist nightmare. (Never mind this was playing out as Wall Street was being nationalized, the Republican base has an incredible ability to filter out inconvenient facts.)

Suppose it had been the reverse scenario? What if Obama had brought up someone he referred to as "Maria the Maid"? Explaining she would be adversely affected by one of McCain's economic proposals. Then FOX News discovered she had no green card, that's right an illegal alien. Would any McCain supporter overlook that? In fact Mr. Wurzelbacher, as an unlicensed plumber, probably works under the table as well. He may owe significantly than his outstanding tax bill.

The question is why did McCain attempt to make Joe the Plumber the centerpiece of his economic policy? Well, reasonable people can disagree about the origins of the financial crisis which is complex. But McCain was the only person to tie it to "earmarks." This was a really bizarre response not just in the eyes of professional economists, but many average Joes. Wonders never cease, eliminating earmarks will allow us to balance the budget as well according to the aging Senator. No wonder so many have bailed for Obama given what McCain is peddling.

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Joe is pretty pathetic, had the gall to ask Obama a hard question knowing his background would then instantly scrutinized by the media.

Sailwind,

In fact it was the local plumbers union that did the background check after McCain introduced him to the nation. (I grew up in a union town, I know how serious this is). They were the ones who told the press Joe Wurzelbacher had no plumber's license nor was there any record he had completed the required training to work as a plumber. Had McCain not brought him in the debate, none of this would have come to light.

Regardless of whether Joe intended to trip up Obama, the uproar over Obama's response will likely discourage such informal interaction between those seeking higher office and members of the public whom they seek to represent. Instead more candidates will adopt the practice of GWB, namely to thoroughly vet everyone who is allowed to ask him/her a question in front of camera for political loyalty, and then make it look spontaneous. That's what you consider to be superior?

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Spin all spin on Joe the Plumber.

If he would have answered Gee, Obama thats a great tax plan you've got there.

Would he have been scrutinized by the Media?

Somebody give and honest answer to that one.

It's pretty obvious to even the most Average Joe what the answer to that one would be.

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Would he have been scrutinized by the Media? Somebody give and honest answer to that one.

I suggest you turn off the tv if you don't like it. Ever think about that for a second? That media caters to its audience? Wow. This is just another case where more information has exposed the truth. The Republicans would rather have you live in the Dark Ages. They have nothing to offer this time round. Sorry, bub.

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This is just another case where more information has exposed the truth.

Agreed, it exposed how deep in the tank it is for Obama.

You avoided my question by the way. Would he have scrutinized by the Media if he said "Gee, Obama great plan you have there?"

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Would he have scrutinized by the Media if he said "Gee, Obama great plan you have there?"

No, because that response wouldn't have been useful to McCain who never would have mentioned him in the debate, prompting the local plumber's union to look into this Joe the Plumber guy. The rest, as they say, is history....

The lesson here for the candidates is make sure every person is vetted beforehand so s/he will say, "Gee, great plan." It's worked swell for GWB.

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The lesson here for the candidates is make sure every person is vetted beforehand so s/he will say, "Gee, great plan."

True, it is after all how they business in North Korea when the leaders do take questions from the "press" there also.

Have you really thought through your defense of making sure every person that asks a candidate is "vetted"? Don't you find that just a bit problematic that it might stop people from asking any questions?

I have some things in my past that I'm not to proud of but they are part of my life. Now if I have a chance to ask Obama or McCain a hard question that just on the off chance might be used to prove their respective positions, I have to worry that maybe some parts of my life that I'd rather not be public is now going to be? Think I'm going to ask the question?

This encourages debate and civil discourse?????????

Think this through Betzee, really think this through for a moment and then you might be start to see why folks might just be a wee upset that the media went after Joe the way they did.

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Don't you find that just a bit problematic that it might stop people from asking any questions?

It's not that difficult. Just ask the GOP how they keep Sarah, you know - the supposed Vice President, away from it.

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Wham double wham, take that twice.

I rest my case.

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It's not that difficult. Just ask the GOP how they keep Sarah, you know - the supposed Vice President, away from it.

When was the last time Joe Biden had a press conference? Hint, it was over two months ago. Can't have anymore Hillary would have been a better pick gaffes.

Media has been pretty quite on Biden lately dont you think after the Dems muzzled him. They don't seem to complain about it though, funny that.

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Media has been pretty quite on Biden lately dont you think after the Dems muzzled him. They don't seem to complain about it though, funny that.

He's done 170-odd interviews since selection, how many more do you need to get a feeling for what he stands for? Would you like more of this so-called biased coverage? Please whinge for the next four years, and revel in your misery at what the majority of voting Americans want.

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Have you really thought through your defense of making sure every person that asks a candidate is "vetted"?

As a matter of fact, I have a relative who was vetted to meet GWB (as a reward for her work in his reelection campaign). It was the equivalent of getting a security clearance frankly. They even sent a van to pick her up at her home almost 100 miles away.

Now granted he is president so there were security considerations. But it went far beyond that; it was orchestrated in a way that would do any dictator proud.

By contrast, Obama was out answering the questions of whomever he encountered. Even then, it is a big deal and many people are probably intimidated by all the secret service and not necessarily at their most coherent (which could explain Joe's responses).

I met Senator Eugene McCarthy as a kid in 1968 when he ran against LBJ unsuccessfully. My grandmother, who never voted for a Democrat in her life, was very respectful (as was everyone else). But these are different times and candidates may feel, in light of this, they can't take the risk. I mean if you can win with stage-managed events, why bother?

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usaexpat: "you better believe there will be higher taxes with a Pelosi, Reed, and Obama controlled government."

After the USA has blown hundreds of billions on the Iraq 'liberation' and the response to the recent banking crisis, which candidate WON'T - in all honesty - have to put up taxes?

Neither is going to be honest and admit it at this stage, but whoever's elected, they will have been left with no choice whatsoever.

I seem to remember you're a businessman - so you should understand basic accounting...

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Betzee,

You avoided the issue like a true champ that you are, and were able to tie in Bush in every which way in your convoluted defense.

Mission accomplished on your part.

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Obama understands very well how much money $700 billion is. It would take at least three Hollywood fundraisers to raise that much money.

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"Obama understands very well how much money $700 billion is. It would take at least three Hollywood fundraisers to raise that much money."

and Palin might be able to buy a few more wardrobes to wear to them!

Anyway, what are you saying, sarge, that Obama raises a hell of a lot more money than McCain, and attracts heaps more people? Fine, point taken.

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frontandcentre: I think you are probably correct but erasing the national debt is not what the democrats have proposed. I have heard a hand out for everyone and everything with no way to pay for it. Obama promises a tax cut for 95% of the populace and that's just plain dishoneset. The government is broke and there is no way that new spending can be contemplated while offering tax cuts. You see it's the same on both sides of the isle. With Bush he offered a tax cut while engaging in a needless war that has cost billions. With Obama you have promises of tax cuts with credits for tuition, health care et al. My point is that neither party has any fiscal responsibility and with the democrats controlling all 3 branches of government there will be plenty of new social spending that has to be paid for somehow. The prosposal has been raising the capital gains tax (great way to hit the middle class on the sale of their biggest asset, their homes. Of course that won't really raise revenue nor hurt the middle class since no one has gains on their homes or investments these days. A non-starter for raising revenue until the economy picks up including the housing market.) I have also heard about raising taxes on the top 5% of the population to which I say again a non-starter. The wealthy shelter their money in ways the middle class can't and that's why the middle class continually get to pay for the poor while the rich send their money to the Cayman islands. If either party were honest they would address the deficit and tell the middle class to bend over but that doesn't really attract votes nearly as well as a vague promise of change or being a maverick in Washington. I have no faith in either party, I just tend to dump more on the guy who's running ahead because I can't see the magic some other believers apparently can.

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I seriously doubt candidate mccain has any hope of winning this election. According to RCP.com, Arizona has gone from solid mccain to leaning. If candidate mccain's campaign isn't organized enough and/or good enough to dominate the candidate's home state, there's no amount of whining about the media that will make a difference. The problem with mccain's campaign is NOT the media, it's Sen. McCain's decline into candidate mccain and the fact that his campaign has been bungled ever since he won the GOP nomination. Picking a running mate that can't handle a softball interview, panicking in the wake of the financial disaster, claiming a desire to maintain a noble campaign followed up by hiring the same people that smeared him in 2000 in order to smear Sen. Obama, claiming to be anti-lobbyist while employing several and a voting record that shows him for more of a bush lap-dog than a maverick is what has sunk candidate mccain, NOT the media. Sen. Obama may not be the best candidate ever, but the other guy (not "that one" mind you) ran out of feet to shoot some time ago and the press wasn't the one squeezing the trigger.

Taka

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Fox News will be mourning on Nov.5

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Interesting how Obama at least on the topic of foreign policies virtually steals the Republican traditional right wing policies from under the feet of McCain.

John McCain as a result has been left with virtually only the energy versus environment debate in which to establish his own right wing creds, as he calls out on the podium "drill baby drill".

If the ruling elite had wanted to mollify the voting population with a Democratic president after two terms of the neo-cons while ensuring there was no change in policy direction which is to ensure American hegemony over world energy supplies and control over local dissent to the coming wars that will entail, then what better way would there be to do it then to place a charismatic, eloquent speaker such as Obama as the frontsman.

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Cheney endorses McCain. The prince of darkness emerged from his undisclosed location to give McCain the final kiss of death. McCain didnt even allow Cheney to come to the failed repub convention in Minnesota. His ratings are below bush's record lows but yet he wants to help push McCain to a more dramatic defeat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyMDe9jj8X8

Polls are surging for Obama now. If the election were in December the repubs would only hold Utah and Wyoming.

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