McCain says Obama wants to forfeit war in Iraq

Dear Senator McCain, the day the President declared "Mission Accomplished" the war was won. What has followed is an occupation. Nobody wins an occupation. If by "forfeiting the war in Iraq" you are accusing Senator Obama of wanting to end this occupation, then, might I ask what your alternative is? An endless protracted combat-troop presence in an area whose people and government do not want that? Senator Obama has accurately read the mood of the US people. They want thi occupation over, and their loved ones in uniform brought home. What may or may not ensue is for Iraqis to decide, not America. And how many of your immediate family currently serve in uniform Iraq or Afghanistan? What's that? Come again? N O N E! I thought so!

He forgot to add that the Iraqis seem to want to forfeit it, too.

Combat troops out of cities by June, 2009, anyone? All combat troops gone by October, 2010? All gone by 2013?

Obama talked about an orderly withdrawal. Al-Maliki is talking about an orderly withdrawal. What is McCain talking about?

McCain is losing traction and credibility by the day.

Earlier this week there were his ridiculous comparisons of Obama to Paris Hilton, now this.

Excuse me, but Sen. McCain, why are you putting Iraq ahead of the US economy? Isn't the US economy more important than Iraq - as Obama believes?

And with the occupation burning through $15-30 billion of loaned money per month, and the US economy in a downward spiral, McCain just wants to make it worse?

The old guy makes the village idiot look like the chief of MENSA....

McCain's admitted cluelessness about the economy is become more apparent as the weeks go by.

McCain must really have the Int'l Left quaking in their Burkenstocks.They have no say in US elections but they are here like clockwork every day obsessing about his chances. Relax. History shows the Dems have this one wrapped up.They can't lose. If there was any chance of their losing Obama would tack to the middle. Right?

Besides, things don't get really serious til after Labor Day.

undecided - looks like your Chosen One - that old wrinked guy - is having the rug pulled from under him.

Will someone tell him?

Republican Lemming Day rumbles another step closer.

Moderator: Please do not refer to any candidate as the Chosen One.

Will someone tell him?

US voters will.

All you can do is watch...

Poor guy. Why did he even bother running?

Poor guy. Why did he even bother running?

He loves his country.

What was Obama's reason for running?

undecided - "What was Obama's reason for running?"

He loves his country.

John McCain's reason for running is to keep our troops in Iraq. Remember, John McCain knows how to win a war. He just wants to continue this dumbass war.

Barack wants to end the war that John McCain wants to see run till long after he's dead and gone. < :-)

that old wrinked guy

Funny, the JT MODS objected to Obama being called "The Chosen One," yet went ahead and gave a pass to Sushi's description of McCain as "that old wrinkled guy."

You also have a JT policy that allows you to make any changes to McCain's name (McSame, McOld), yet won't even allow you to mention Obama's middle name.

I think we should probably accept the fact that Japan Today has two different standards for the candidates.

Good on you McCain, you've done it again.

"What is McCain talking about?"

Winning.

What is Obama talking about? Withdrawing, win or lose.

really, what does the US lose if we were to withdraw? What do we gain if we stay? I like LIBERTAS post at 08:38 AM JST - 8th August

"Dear Senator McCain, the day the President declared "Mission Accomplished" the war was won. What has followed is an occupation. Nobody wins an occupation." True

If by "forfeiting the war in Iraq" you are accusing Senator Obama of wanting to end this occupation, then, might I ask what your alternative is? An endless protracted combat-troop presence in an area whose people and government do not want that?" Great question

" Senator Obama has accurately read the mood of the US people." I don't think that is true. And even if it is, what makes the people so right and why should a politician flow with the polls?

They want thi occupation over, and their loved ones in uniform brought home. What may or may not ensue is for Iraqis to decide, not America. And how many of your immediate family currently serve in uniform Iraq or Afghanistan? " If people buy into the idea that anyone wanting to hurt the US is tied up in Iraq fighting and if that does prevent any large scale attacks such as 9-11, they will choose the occupation.

I am half with you.

Can't McCain come up with anything new?? god... his 'arguments' are getting to be as old as HE is! Changing one word in a dead sentence doesn't make it a new idea (a lot of neo-cons on here ought to take that to heart, as well).

Anyway, what's McCain going to do? Demand that the Iraqi government keep the troops there, despite said government coming up with a concrete plan for withdrawal? And here I thought they were a democratically elected government in a free country! Guess McCain wants to take over Saddam's role!

John McCain's looking for a way to keep Halliburton in Iraq just as long as dick cheney wants them there.

John McCain is willing to say anything to get himself elected.

It's more like John McCain would keep a war going to win election. < :-)

I certainly don't believe we should stay in Iraq indefinitely, but I also definitely don't want a premature pullout. (We've been there long enough, so to clarify, I mean not to pullout before Iraqi security forces are ready and the Iraqi gov't is a little more stable).

For the record: "If people buy into the idea that anyone wanting to hurt the US is tied up in Iraq fighting and if that does prevent any large scale attacks such as 9-11, they will choose the occupation." 9/11 and Iraq = No connection, except that spun by Wolfowitz et al. This war is based 100% on L I E S. America's real enemies are domestic.

Libertas: I didn't say there was a connection. What I meant was if the scenario paints a picture that this wars keeps terrorist busy over there and not on US shores, most Americans will turn the other cheek.

undecided:His first name is also Arabic, and his family name is equally foreign. " I am starting to feel anything you say about Obama, if is not liked it is racism.

to the poster: Can't McCain come up with anything new??" I've said it before, between McC and O, there really aren't many difference on issues except the war.

"McCain says Obama wants to forfeit war in Iraq"

Meanwhile, Obama wants to focus American efforts on - wait for it, this will be news and a shock to McCain - America.

Vote McCain and you vote to drain US resources into another country.

Yawn

Wake me up when this childish and shrieky affair is over.

John McCain knows how to win a war.

Cause it worked in Vietnam eh?

"Cause it worked in Vietnam eh"?

We were winning in Vietnam until the liberals forced us to pull out before the job was done. McCain does indeed know how to win a war.

Sarge,

McCain is talking about winning. You are right. But he is talking about winning in Iraq and he cannot define what that means. 10 years? 100 years? It's all good.

Obama is talking about withdrawing. But he is not talking about withdrawing win or lose. He is talking about an orderly withdrawal from Iraq (as al-Maliki indicates) in order to refocus our efforts to more effectively combat terrorism.

Incidentally, I think Obama is wrong to think that Afghanistan is the place to relocate our troops. I think McCain is just wrong period--actually, worse than wrong, he's formulaic.

Sez - Obama is talking about an orderly withdrawal from Iraq within 16 months of taking office no matter what the situation is. I don't understand al-Maliki. He knows full well that he is President of Iraq because of the 140,000 American troops there. How can he be so sure he won't need any of them 16 months from January 2009?

Sarge - "McCain does indeed know how to win a war."

ha ha, good one, mate!

He sat out most of the last one in a POW camp.

Sen. McCain, bless him, barely knows what day it is, let alone who the enemy is over there in the ME.

Sarge - "Obama is talking about an orderly withdrawal from Iraq within 16 months of taking office no matter what the situation is. I don't understand al-Maliki. He knows full well that he is President of Iraq because of the 140,000 American troops there. How can he be so sure he won't need any of them 16 months from January 2009?"

al-Maliki, of course, has his potential electorate to look after and most of his men are saying we want Iraq back, get the invaders out.

You need to understand they are men, with pride, just like you, and men with pride who also wield power aren't really going to be happy to have another country tell them what they can and cannot do.

They are talking about sovereignity and, by golly, they mean it.

So, the sooner US troops get out, the sooner they - Iraqis - can begin managing their own affairs.

That's the way it should be.

This got me thinking : at what point one can say that he has won the war in Iraq?? Can someone define what "winning the war in Iraq" means?

Sushi - "the sooner US troops get out, the sooner they - Iraqis - can begin managing their own affairs."

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! You STILL don't get it, do you? Iraqis are now pretty much managing their own affairs precisely because U.S. troops are there. If they get out too soon, the only Iraqis managing their own affairs will be the extremist wacko Iraqis like the ones we ousted. Why is it so hard for some people to see this...

majimekun - "at what point one can say that he has won the war in Iraq?? Can someone define what "winning the war in Iraq" means?"

This is exactly what I have been thinking for years.

Please ask Sarge. I'm sure he will blind you with something...except it probably won't be what you are looking for....

Sarge - "the only Iraqis managing their own affairs will be the extremist wacko Iraqis like the ones we ousted. Why is it so hard for some people to see this..."

ha ha, that's so funny. :-)

It's funny because you clerly illustrate exactly why you just don't get it.

Where were the "extremist wackos" before the invasion, Sarge?

Here's a little test for you -

Q1/ Wee Iraqisbeing hit by suicide and car bombers before the invasion, Sarge? No.

Q2/ Was "Al-quaeda in Iraq" in Iraq before the invasion, Sarge? No again.

Your ignoracnce is only trumped by your, um....ignorance :-)

Try again, my friend! :-)

Sushi - "Where were the 'extremist wackos' before the invasion, Sarge?"

Um, in Baghdad, Sushi. Saddam Hussein and his winsome sons and Chemcal Ali ring a bell?

Your ignorance is trumped by your, um...ignorance!

"( Were ) Iraqis being hit by suicide and car bombers before the invasion, Sarge?"

Not too many. Saddam had things pretty much under control.

Question for Sushi: Were Iraqis free to express their opinions and vote in free elections before the liberation? Checking... No, they weren't!

Jordan fades back...

skipthesong

"and his family name is equally foreign"

What is a "foreign" name to an American?

Sarge

"We were winning in Vietnam until the liberals forced us to pull out before the job was done."

Don't you dare ever say another word about Japanese history after that remark.

Or did you mean by "job was done" there were still some locals left alive?

"If they get out too soon, the only Iraqis managing their own affairs will be the extremist wacko Iraqis like the ones we ousted."

That I agree with, when the foreign troops leave there will be civil war, but that will happen whenever they leave, now or at any time in the future. Why stay losing men by the day & costing the US insane amounts of money it doesn't have for what will happen anyway?

The one serious mistake an outsider can see clearly is that the Republicans make a really stupid mistake sellecting McCain, he is far too old, he belongs to the wrong generation & some don't even believe he would live out a single term in office.

And as an outsider some might tell me to mind my own business, what happens in the US is all our businesses until somebody gets a grip on the way that country runs it's foreign policy we all pay for it's mistakes.

Ah OK, I got it now. The war in Iraq will be won from the time a US president simply proclaims so. The American people will be gullible enough to buy it.

Even Obama could do it : "Now that we've won the war in Iraq, let's bring our troops back!" he will probably say. And everybody will agree/applaud because they just want to believe they have won the war.

Sarge - "Question for Sushi: Were Iraqis free to express their opinions and vote in free elections before the liberation?"

No. What has that got to do with America???

What makes you think America had the right to barge in these and change things?

The arrogance of some people is mind-blowing....

Imagawa - "when the foreign troops leave there will be civil war, but that will happen whenever they leave, now or at any time in the future. Why stay losing men by the day & costing the US insane amounts of money it doesn't have for what will happen anyway?"

Sadly, I don't think Sarge - or Superlib, for that matter, will ever understand this.

Imagawa - "And as an outsider some might tell me to mind my own business, what happens in the US is all our businesses until somebody gets a grip on the way that country runs it's foreign policy we all pay for it's mistakes."

I couldn't agree more :-)

And as an outsider some might tell me to mind my own business, what happens in the US is all our businesses until somebody gets a grip on the way that country runs it's foreign policy we all pay for it's mistakes.

No offense, our foreign policy has kept the oil flowing so you and I can post.

Our mistake is my country and yours being addicted to oil and our policy makers yours and mine make decisions on that just keep our comfy lifestyles intact.

It's that simple.

There is a large amount of truth to what you wrote, but it really doesn’t change what I wrote. What happens in the US over the coming months is all our businesses. Won win will make a difference, even if we are not American & cannot vote. And maybe you can feel the trace of bitterness there, we can’t vote, but can & very often do pay the price for who runs your country.

Sorry

Who wins will make a difference,

Sorry, I'm just having a bad day today, I got my keyboard working & now3 I can't use it.

sailwind,

glad you finally admit what the liberals on this board said before the invasion of Iraq, its simply blood for oil. And McCain the Songbird simply wants to continue the old and failed policies of the bush administration.

imagawa - "McCain, he is far too old, he belongs to the wrong generation"

Holy moly, this thread is really going downhill with posts like this...

"failed policies of the ( Bush ) administration"

Lessee... two countries liberated... the dictator of Iraq brought to justice... free elections held in Iraq... the security situation in Iraq improving so much, the Iraqi leadership is so confident, they want all the foreign troops out in a year and a half...

Yes, failed policies indeed! Jordan fades back...

sailwind,

glad you finally admit what the liberals on this board said before the invasion of Iraq, its simply blood for oil. And McCain the Songbird simply wants to continue the old and failed policies of the bush administration.

So was the first Gulf war to liberate Kuwait after Saddam invaded that country. You where agaisn't that one also after all it's all about oil.

There is a large amount of truth to what you wrote, but it really doesn’t change what I wrote. What happens in the US over the coming months is all our businesses. Won win will make a difference, even if we are not American & cannot vote. And maybe you can feel the trace of bitterness there, we can’t vote, but can & very often do pay the price for who runs your country.

Can't really expand on that. The U.S is the number one country and the decisions she makes does effect the rest of the world for good or ill. That is reality, what we have to ask ourselves is simple. Flawed as she is America is still the land where no matter where you come from or adveristy you face you can still grow up one day and maybe even be President. Obama, who would have thought right now this man might very well be elected to the highest office in the land ......That is really what America is all about in my opinion.

How many have died in these two countrie this last week Sarge? Sorry but if you don't watch the news every day it's easy to lose count.

One other point, when was it that this war was won?

"failed policies indeed!" That's about how most people see it too.

Sarge "Failed policies of the ( Bush ) administration," glad you brought that up. Lessee... two countries decimated... the dictator of Iraq brought to lynching... puppetmastered elections held in Iraq... the security situation in Iraq awaiting Al Sadr's wrath, the Iraqi leadership is so spineless, they want all the foreign troops out in a year and a half...cos al Sadr said so. Yes, failed policies indeed! Well said! You're well on the way to getting that job at FOX News you always wanted. Inventing your own truths.

Sarge - "Lessee... two countries liberated... "

LMAO!!!! almost falling off my seat .... ha ha ha!!

Sarge has been repeating this mantra to himself for so many years now he has actually - successfully - convinced himself that it is true.

Well done, Sarge, you rock! :-)

Just be sure you pick up the pieces after you, and there's a lot of them!

Sailwind, yes I did not support the first bush invasion although I admit it was run by adults that time, not the juvenile delinquints under Scrub five years ago. Kuwait was stealing Iraqi oil with US technology. In the end the Gulf War which was sold to the US public to bring democracy to Kuwait, of course did not. I dont care which corrupt government sells oil to the US, in the end no matter who is running the country they have to sell the oil. The invasions are useless and in the case of Iraq a total disaster.

Sarge,

Obama is not talking about an orderly withdrawal from Iraq no matter what the situation is. I would be in favor of that even if he were, but he is not. He is talking about ending an occupation (that both Iraqis and Americans want to end) and allowing the Iraqis to take over their own police work (as Iraqis say is possible and as American forces increasingly agree).

Obama has said time and again that any actual withdrawal will depend upon commanders' assessments of conditions on the ground. The difference between Obama and McCain is that McCain clings to the notion that there is something further that we can win in Iraq. Obama seems to me to more realistically realize that there is not.

sailwind,

The notion--contrary to fact unless limited to certain measures such as military power, wealth, etc.--that the US is the number one country is precisely the notion that empowers us to interfere whenever and wherever we like. The US has many fine features, but humility is not one. Both the US and Rome are/were geo-political powers where almost anyone can/could become leader (Arnie can't; Pertinax did) but this does not inform us about the greatness of the society.

When we compare Obama and McCain with respect to Iraq, it is not just Iraq and America that are affected. The entire world is affected just as was the much smaller entire world of the Romans in the leader's decisions as to when and how to prosecute foreign wars. Ultimately, as in the case of Rome, the entire world does get to vote. It is very much in America's interests to make sure that the vote is favorable.

Sez - "Obama has said time and again that any actual withdrawal will depend upon commanders' assessments of conditions on the ground"

Then the 16 months from the time he takes office promise is thrown under the bus? Then his Iraq policy is no different from McCain's.

Sarge,

Everyone seems to enjoy throwing things under Obama's bus. I don't understand what you are trying to say here. 16 months from January, 2009, coincides fairly well with the timetable al-Maliki wants.

His policy is different than McCain in that he is giving a date. He is suggesting a time frame. McCain also suggests a time frame, 2013 I believe, but that sounds more like "by the end of my presidency". And McCain is content with a longer occupation.

McCain is obsessed with "winning" and is not willing to consider the possibility that we've already "won" as much as we're ever going to win.

Barrak Obama is a never-done-anything, never-will-do-nothing, no-experienced puppet of the Democrat party. Fortunately our constitution is strong enough to handle idiots like him. McCain is a RINO Republican, but he does love the country, and is the better choice. How can any liberal vote for a party that hates the country and wants to hand its control over to the liberal courts of Europe? I feel sad for you ignorant liberals that actually enjoy being called liberal, because by the posts I've seen on this forum, you are filled with hate and and anger at anyone that is not as liberal as you, and that is called arrogance and bigotry.