McCain steps up attacks on Obama over ties to Ayers

When was the last time an angry old man, with seven houses and a running mate young enough to be his daughter, won the presidential election? Interestingly, I have asked some people in Japan if they regard McCain as a war hero for being shot down and held as a POW. All answered No. The concept of a hero seems to be different in Japan. With this latest bit of swiftboating, I tend to agree.

McCain also needs to ask Obama what took him so long to quit attending a church with a rascist, hateful preacher.

buttamimi - The people you asked are probably liberals.

With only a month left mccain has no options left but to be negative as he and his mate have shown to be uninspired, tired, confused. As for him being a "war hero" being shot down and being POW doesn't automatically make you a war hero.

The people I asked regarding McCain's war hero status were Japanese. Sorry if I didn't make that clear, Sarge. Oh, personally I wish all politicians would stay clear of religion. I do believe that Sarah Palin belongs or belonged to a church which believes in the 'End of Days.' Well, on that one she could be right. The end of her political days are fast approaching.

The Republicans can win. They just need to keep chanting . . . Ayers, Rezko, Wright . . . Ayers, Rezko, Wright. . . Ayers, Rezko, Wright. . . Ayers, Rezko, Wright. . . Ayers, Rezko, Wright! Hold on to your dreams NeoCons!

"I do believe that Sarah Palin belongs or belonged to a church which believes in the 'End of Days.'"

Great is your faith, my son, since you believe this despite zero evidence.

Moderator: Readers, please stay on topic.

sarge: "buttamimi - The people you asked are probably liberals."

sorry, amigo, but people in Japan don't quite fit into your easy picture of black and white when it comes to US politics, foreign relations, war, etc. Sure, many would say they would vote for Obama solely because there is a town of the same name, and that's about as superficial as you can get, but I have yet to meet a single person in Japan -- a single one including foreigners (and they're NOT all liberals, either) -- who would vote for McCain. Good thing for you, aside from the Americans that I've talked politics with, none of them CAN vote. People like Bush would have never gotten in a first term, let alone a second term (mind you, like they did before, they could always hold off the overseas votes until bush's rigging were finished).

Again, McCain is the furthest thing from a hero, and has gone against all the things he says he learned from internment in the Hanoi Hotel, and from Bush burning him for the Republican nomination, and in the election against Kerry. I'd say hypocrite, but that's being too friendly.

I think John McCain is a coward for this nonsense BS - if it were otherwise, he would bring his contrived issues up with Obama in the debate - to his face. He just leaves dirty work for his junior attack dog know-nothing palin, so he can maintain some plausible deniability. This is just more demonstration of the fact that being a "war hero", surviving an enemy prison camp, etc is no guarantee of future honorable behavior.

Look (and weep) at the results of this BS campaign upon an admittedly already-ignorant electorate: http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E

and: http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=VJghQMq49dw

Add Senator Obama's ties to racists like "Reverend" Wright and "Father" Michael Pfleger to those of failed domestic terrorists like Bill Ayers and his wife Bernadine Dhorn (fan of Charles Manson) and the portrait that emerges is one of a man who hates everything about America.

Unfit to lead.

Angry old man prone to temper tantrums, close-associate of Keating, dumped his crippled wife to marry into wealth, massive flip-flopper on all issues, particularly banking regulation = UNFIT TO LEAD

coulrophobic said:

and the portrait that emerges is one of a man [Obama] who hates everything about America.

It is so unfair that the main stream media is not willing to use your very words. They know Obama hates America and they just won't publish it. Those lefties. coulrophobic, do you think they might be hiding information that Obama secretly wants to turn the White House into a Charles Manson style ranch/compound. We would really love to hear your views on this matter.

One word for the McCain camp. DESPERATION

Palin floated McCain's dull grey campaign for a short time. Now she's like a lead weight as people see that the pitbull hockey mom is really some back woods redneck with very little clue about the role of VP let alone answers for the real problems facing Americans.

He's on the attack because he has nothing else to talk about.

Obama is staying on message and it is reaching more and more people. The GOP rule days are at a close. And good riddance.

"McCain steps up attacks on Obama over ties to Ayers"

Anything but the issues facing voters.

What a loser.

way back I thought whoever wins dems or repubs it wud be a major step up for the US & the world once Mccain secured his spot, but Mccain has turned into a stark raving mad loony & his running mate is just simply a disgrace, she shud have stayed in Alaska where she had a chance to maybe do some good but turning her into this rabid nutjob will turn into nothing but jokes on late night tv.

All in all this campaign shows just how bad the US is doing, it aint pretty, if by some weird circumstance Mccain wins it cud very well be the end of the US being the worlds strongman, look at Russia, not debts, flush with cash they are going to be tough to deal with for the the foreseebale future & the US might not be able to do much about it

That's right smith, don't bother trying to talk about how great your hero Obama would be in office, just spend all your time making up trash about McCain.

I wonder when mccain will put Miyoko Kawahara on the payroll.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8903751327580484336

It's almost sad to see him sink so low. Not only is he really not helping his chances, he's tarnishing what little remains of his once solid reputation.

Taka

It's pretty pathetic that in a nation of 300 million people we are reduced to two subpar choices. However, it is even sadder that people can be so blinded by party loyalty that they cannot see the far far better of those two choices. As an aside, there is loads of evidence that Palin belongs to a church which believes the end days are upon us, and that Alaska will be a christian refuge in those end days. A simple YouTube search will suffice. She is a religious extremist of the worst kind (reduntant i know...)

sarge: "That's right smith, don't bother trying to talk about how great your hero Obama would be in office, just spend all your time making up trash about McCain."

hahahaha... how did I know you were going to cut and paste my comments? You continue to entertain, my friend. Follow delusions and support washed up losers, to be sure, but you still entertain. This article is about McCain trashing Obama because he's absolutely desperate. Read EVERY single post on here, my friend, and you will find, without exception, that they all either point out just how desperate McCain is and how mentally unfit he is if he thinks this will work, or else it's by people like you who just cannot address the issue at hand (ie. equally as desperate and in denial).

Like you did a few days ago, sarge, you'll some day again realize the race is over and the Dems have won. Sadly, when Obama/Biden save the US from tanking completely from the situation Bush and his comrades allowed to occur, you'll grumble and complain and say things would have been better under the Repubs. (forgetting the country would have gone 100% down the toilet or been sold completely to China, which is still down the toilet).

Get with the program sarge, instead of being a rat clinging to a sinking ship.

McCain a 'war hero'? Do me a favour! He was shot down bombing Asian civilians in the last war of aggression around here that the USA eventually got seriously beaten in.

If he wants to get taken seriously in this contest he should start by telling us how he is going to prevent American tax dollars ending up in the pocket books of his Wall Street buddies.

The SS McCain is sinking fast. He can deny the existence of the financial iceberg all he wants, but the damage has been done. he claimed that he always fought against any pork coming across his desk, but McCain defaulted to old government policy of slathering the 700BILLION dollar bailout with pork, driving the price even higher. When asked about the pork, he shrugged and said that's just the way it is in Washington. In other words, McCain wasn't going to change that situation. He made himself a liar about his claims of fighting pork spending.

McCain's final offensive, his Waterloo as they say, is to play the patriot vs. terrorist card over and over again like those stupid soundbites found at supermarkets. The first time, it had impact. The 100th time, its just annoying. Nothing new, and now that economy is going south and causing just as much if not more damage than the 1920's stock market crash, its seems out of touch with the concerns of regular people.

McCain needs to focus on the economy, but his policies are not helping the voters, only the corporations. In his 2nd debate, he popped up his idea of buying people's mortgages, but after the debate he changed the wording to make it costlier for tax-payers.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081009/pl_politico/14414

McCain has to be careful about how much he says about Obama's past because he has a lot of skeletons in the closet himself with Keating and the Iran-Contra connections. They are just as relevant and just as important to know about. They show that McCain has bad judgement about the economy, can be swayed by shady lobbyists, and is willing to work with neo-nazi extremists in order to fund terrorism.

People in Glass houses shouldn't throw rocks. Someone should teach that saying to McCain, but then again, his house is pretty-much broken now. He has little more to lose. Soon, the report on Palin will also come out on Troopergate. The ship is sinking fast.

Time to abandon ship.

Grampa McCain is on his last legs, but the dirty tricks are just beginning. Look out for increasingly desperate attempts by the Republicans to disqualify as many Democrat voters as possible on whatever spurious measures they can think of. Watch as dodgy, unauditable, electronic voting apparatus (provided by Republican party backers) is brought in which mysteriously allocates extra votes to McCain.

Unless the Republicans can engineer a terrorist atrocity on the US mainland in the next few weeks, McCain is headed for the retirement home and a comfy rocking chair on the stoop.

Scrote: "Unless the Republicans can engineer a terrorist atrocity on the US mainland in the next few weeks, McCain is headed for the retirement home and a comfy rocking chair on the stoop."

It's not entirely unrealistic that they won't organize such an attack... I mean, every time bush was down in the polls around the election time before his second term he announced an 'increase in the terrorist threat' and numerous orange alerts, etc., each time increasing support slightly. Only a few days ago I noticed a couple of articles warning of 'the potential for violence to grow in Iraq' as McCain started slipping in the polls. Morons, of course, would take this as a sign to back the Republican candidate, not realizing that he, like bush, would only add to terrorism and make the region worse (I mean, there was no link at all to Bin Laden or AQ in Iraq before Bush rushed in illegally! Now there is, and all thanks to him). Fortunately, the public clearly sees McCain for the coward he is, and his increasingly desperate character attacks are so transparent even fellow Republicans are jumping ship and reverting to damage control.

The sad truth is that neither one of them is willing (or perhaps able) to tell the American people what he actually would do if elected. They both ducked all of the difficult questions during the most recent debate, and they continue to focus on matters that are peripheral to the issues one of them will have to face as President.

McCain's increased emphasis on supposed issues of "character" reflects the fact that the American public's concern of the moment is the economy, a topic on which McCain lacks credibility. If something happens to bring issues relating to national security back to the forefront, you can expect McCain to stop emphasizing irrelevant matters such as Obama's service on a charity's board of directors with Ayers and to start emphasizing his military experience. Unless, of course, what raises national security concerns seems to indicate that the surge hasn't worked, in which case McCain's goose really is cooked.

Even though economic issues favor Obama, he also has failed to be candid with the American populace about how their lives are going to be negatively impacted by the current situation, including the likely fallout from the economic crisis.

"Obama . . . took on McCain’s plan for the U.S. government to buy up sour home mortgages, claiming it would reward bad behavior by lenders and take billions of dollars from struggling taxpayers."

"...while John McCain intensified attacks on the first-term Illinois senator’s ties to a 1960s radical."

Kind of says it all with regard to which candidate is taking the nation's future more seriously: On the one hand, we have Obama, who appears be making some effort to get to the core of the economic challenges that will face whoever occupies the White House in January, or McCain, who seems more concerned with how often Obama exchanged greetings with a 60s radical who now works in education and non-profit charities.

McCain's campaign reeks of desperation and finality, and it seems no one in his camp has a clue how to pull out of the nosedive. If anyone on his staff had an ounce of integrity, they'd advise McCain to regroup, stop the desperate attacks and muckraking that have nothing to do with Obama's ability to govern, and refocus on what McCain himself can bring to the table for the American people besides constant reminders of what a "maverick" he is.

Panic in the markets. Resurgent Russia. Environmental and Energy crisis. Two wars to fight. And a public fed up with being left out in the cold.

I agree that the only thing I can think of that would lean people back to the right is a massive, very scray attack at home. Something that put the fear or terror ahead of the fear of economic hardship. Something monumental.

I hope, for all concerned, that such an event is an impossibility. And that no party would resort to such an act.

tkoind:

" I hope, for all concerned, that such an event is an impossibility. And that no party would resort to such an act. "

Nope. Obama is choice favoured by the jihadists, so there won`t be any before the election. However, once O. is elected there will be one soon, as a reminder who is superior. Wait and see.

Havent both sides thrown in personal attacks at each other?

Havent both side been proven they lie on all the major sound bites they use?

Didnt they say in the article that Obama has spent more money in one day then McCain did all season?

Seems simple to me.... Its who ever can get more sheep to pay attention (spend the most in ads) gets the position.... What a great way to pick the next idiot in office...

Hopefully in my life time we will see a president actually voted in because he can do the job, not because he has the "best" money can buy....

McCain is doing what Obama is doing both should be ashamed..so should the sheep telling the other sheep their guy is the problem...

Gates/Jobs 2012

So those who dont like McCains plan to buy up the Mortgages and bring them to a controllable level for the people who are getting forclosed on, what has Obama planned to do to keep the now estimated close to 85million people who will lose their homes in the next 6 months?

Obama nor McCain (except McCain did say buy up the bad debt and freeze govement spending until we can control the problem)hasnt put down anything yet about that little problem, you know the things humans need food shelter clothing, Taxes dont matter one rats ass if I cant have a roof over my head and food on my table from May to March.... Neither has a good plan to stop the root of the problem.

I voted already and as one of the posters here said I decided to throw my vote away because neither of these too candidates has given a real solution to the problems, they are just talking to talk and have no real plans with numbers that work .

Just like consumers who buy a product because it looks good on the commercial people vote that way for Political positions.... Sad sad sad, thats why Candidates have AD companies working closer to them then advisors on economics,health,military,and other needed things.....

WilliB: "Nope. Obama is choice favoured by the jihadists, so there won`t be any before the election. However, once O. is elected there will be one soon, as a reminder who is superior."

I'm glad you can fully admit that Obama is the person going to win; you have at least that going for you. Sadly, the argument as a whole takes on the tone of those sorry old politicians currently in office, who attempt to use fear to 'win over' those who want to make the world a better place. How soon you guys forget that before Bush there was no 9/11 as an everyday English expression, let alone as a day to mark the deaths of THOUSANDS; while there were terrorists before bush, there were NEVER the number or ranks like there are since bush took office and his policies resulted in more and more enemies to the US. These are Republican made problems, and all have occured on the Republican dime. Fortunately, people are smarter than you make them out to be; they don't want McCain in office, making the world even MORE dangerous with his polices, creating MORE enemies of the US, and flying off the handle to start more wars, waste more lives, etc. Nah... they want change for the better, and they'll get it with Obama.

Again, your tired old scare tactics are soon to be a thing of the past, booted out with your ilk in a number of weeks. Hell... if it helps you, though, you 5 or 6 remaining McCain supporters can gather and try to scare each other -- Hallowe'en IS coming up after all. Why not buy an OBL mask and the rest of you can pretend to try and find him. Oh, but the ones searching better not dress up as Bush and/or McCain -- they've been in government for YEARS and haven't been able to come even close.

I cant believe people here whining about these two not giving their REAL opinions, plans, policy on the economy!!!

Hello hello!! If they did they wud had the election to the other side. Americans simply dont want to know how bad its going to hurt, again if either dems or repubs say too much, offer any detail they will commit political suicide.

OK now that I have let you all know about what shud be bloody obvious what I want to know is have they fixed that CHAD problem in Florida yet, cud come down to that again, watch out

Most of the few remaining 4 die-hards on this site sure are steering clear of this thread! hahaha... hilarious to watch McCain slide... slide... slide back into oblivion. Boy is he going to be pi$$ed that he couldn't show up daddy and grandpappy McCain! He's still the loser and screw-up grandkid of old McCain in the end.

As far as I can see (unless something out of the normal happens) Obama should win the election, That doesnt mean he is the right person for the job, it just means he won a poularity contest.

Sad that people cant do politics as politica, it has to be a personal attack on people who support the guy they like, or a personal attack on the candidate themselves...

We never made it of the playground as a species.... Its just sad..

Vote William Gates/ Steven Jobs 2012!!!

Senator Obama's site [Fight the Smears - http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate] admits he had dual citizenship: American and Kenyan.

His site states his Kenyan citizenship expired in 1982.

I do believe we have a candidate who is not eligible to be president.

Obama still cannot produce a certified copy of his “Vault” [original long version] Birth Certificate from the state of Hawaii because it does not exist.

That Senator Obama and the DNC have filed a Joint Motion against any decision upon Philadelphia lawyer Philip J. Berg's suit [copy of at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2066207/posts] only strenghtens the suspicion that Howard Dean and the DNC have gone and allowed the nomination of a candidate ineligible for the office of president.

McCain and Obama are equally bad. The only difference is that McCain has more experience crashing fighter jets. I can't believe Americans are debating which of these 2 should become president! Why can't the US get some decent candidates?

Please. Can we focus on what needs to be done to solve our problems and stop dreaming up dime store novel ideas about how to undermine the guys running for office.

The choice is clear. Change or more of the same. The people are chosing change.

coulrophobic

Allow me a moment to respond to your revelation regarding Obama's supposed legal ineligibility for the presidency with an answer commesurate with the amount of time it took you to think it up:

BWAAAH-HAhahahahaha!

In fact, my response was generously overthought.

"Change or more of the same."

Obama can't describe what the first would be or what the second is.

Why should anyone believe him?

Is there anything more vacuous than a politician promising 'change'?

We're really getting down to the wire here, aren't we?

First, Obama was a terrorist.

Then he was a communist.

Then he was an example of corrupt Chicago politics.

Then he was a terrorist again.

And now, he's not an American citizen.

What's next? Unpaid parking tickets?

The choice is clear. Change or more of the same. The people are chosing change.

Change is just that change.. We will be changing from Bush to another, but thats all the change that is happening.. We need a new idea not a new face with one parties ideas... Sorry tkoind2 you just dont understand it, Obama isnt a new way hes the democrate way and from history neither parties way by itsself has done what is needed..

Coulrophobic dual citizenship has nothing to do with being able to run for president, as a child with parents from different countries one being the US you get both citizenships until you finish school or 21 years of age which ever happens last. At that time you have to decide (only in America) which country you choose, Obama took the US as his... Sorry

Actually LFRAgain

They called looking for you again... you still have 38k in unpaid parking tickets;))) They are talking 5 years jail suspended 10 years and an you have to say sorry to each curd you parked at.. *)

curd=curb

"Coulrophobic dual citizenship has nothing to do with being able to run for president, as a child with parents from different countries one being the US you get both citizenships until you finish school or 21 years of age which ever happens last. At that time you have to decide (only in America) which country you choose, Obama took the US as his... Sorry"

You miss the crux of the issue: Obama can't produce his true birth cert;he has relatives in Kenya who have said he was born there;there are conflicting reports of which Honolulu hopsital he was born in and finally, his Indonesian stepfather (Obama took his name for a period of his life) appears to have made him an Indonesian citizen.

The tangled web you weave when the hysterical multiculturalism gets out of hand...

Obamacrimes.com is hosted by the Philadelphia lawyer challenging Senator Obama's elegibility.

Judge for yourself.

Crap. They finally found me. I knew I should've just spent the quarter. ;-)

From the US Citizenship and Immigration Services website:

"● Citizenship

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. - XIV Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

Citizenship is one of the most coveted gifts that the U.S. government can bestow, and the most important immigration benefit that USCIS can grant. Most people become U.S. citizens in one of two ways:

● By birth, either within the territory of the United States or to U.S. citizen parents, or

● By Naturalization.

So, it actually doesn't matter where he was born, as long as he was born to at least one American citizen, which his mother just happened to be (she's from Kansas and never renounced her US citizenship). This is unfortunate for Mr. Philip J. Berg, Esquire, but hey, it's his money (and the money of saps foolish enough to buy into his pap without first taking even a cursory glance at US citizenship laws). Ain't being an American great?! So many perks!!

And if you have issues about him allegedly being born in Kenya rather than Hawaii, I'm afraid US code regarding citizenship requirements addresses that in fair detail as well. Short version: Since mom was American, so is Barrack. Sorry 'bout that.

So, coulrophobic . . . You, uh, got anything else?

mccain is a total disgrace not only to the GOP but to thinking Americans.

Voters are screaming out for their candidaes to tell them what they are going to do to fix the dire economic problems facing their nation.

And mccain is talking about some guy Obama met years ago.

WHY? WHO CARES???

mccain's lowlife character attacks simply indicate to voters he just isn't ready - let alone willing - to talk about the issues.

OK, he tried in the last debate by bringing up a plan to bail out mortgage lenders. His plan, probably scribbled up by someone in his campaign on the back of a piece of toilet paper was quickly trashed by Obama's campaign team and even had some economists scratching their heads wondering what the heck was going through mccain's head.

mccain is toast and America will be better off because of it.

"McCain has more experience crashing fighter jets"

Smart aleck comment.

His plan, probably scribbled up by someone in his campaign on the back of a piece of toilet paper

Why do you sometimes frame your arguments in ways that makes it impossible for an intelligent person to respect them? Just who is your message intended for?

"And mccain is talking about some guy Obama met years ago."

No, he isn't.

Sushisake, you are as wanting as smithinjapan where facts are concerned.

Obama and Ayers worked together for years. Their collaboration distributing close to 100 million dollars around Chicago represents Obama's only real executive experience.

His handlers sought to hide it from the public.

Why ? We have the righ to know.

Ayers and Obama were more than neighbors. Obama's claim in the debate with Clinton that their kids attended the same school was another cheap trick - Ayers kids are grown up. Naturally, Obama avoided naming them:Ayers, like a lot of old 60's radicals, is an admitted wannabe and worshipper of the kind of violence the Black Panthers perpetrated but which socialists like Ayers rationalized as "revolutionary" ["I also thought I was black,"Ayers once said * ] Ayers named his own son 'Malik.' It was not some mangled attempt at an Irish name.

Senator Obama admitted in an interview yesterday that he thought Ayers had been "rehabilitated" - -

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/ Obama_on_Ayers_I_assumed_he_had_been_rehabilitated.html

Again, Obama appalling lack of discretion is alarming.

He is a lousy judge of character.

Unfit to lead.

Did Ayers ghostwrite "Dreams From My Father"?

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/ who_wrote_dreams_from_my_fathe_1.html

Sushisake3

I would rather see the goverment pay off debt for the American people then for the companies that do business in America..

So I for one think at least McCain has an idea that is for the people...

Obama hasnt come up with a solution other then he wants to add more regulation to the industry and spend more money trying to put goverment into a position of employer and micro manage business..

What we need is simple, first we need goverment to do what they are suppose to do and thats pass laws so that people cant abuse a system, not run the companies.

Secondly we need to set term limits on people in congrees , they should have the same limits as a presdent has.

Thirdly we need to get some type of reform in campaign finance so we are not having candidates buying an election like Bush did and Obama is doing.

1 billion dollars in campain money is just sick thing to think about, people dont have money for food and others are spending 90million in a day putting hate ads on tv, sending out spam on the internet, and buying space on newsprint....

no matter who wins this election none of these will get done... thats because the candidates are in it for their parties and themselves and not truly for the people..

4 years from now we will still be in Iraq, still in Afgahnistan, Still have ceos making millions on failed business while the workers lose their homes, it doesnt change and wont change because people are afraid to think outside the political group and take car of what we need...

We vote in these idiots and then we complain about them the whole time.

Im guilty too, I voted in Clinton the first time and he turned around and lowered the pay for all active duty military, gave early retirements that caused a shortage of personel and caused others to have to work unbelievable hours to compensate, but I dint make the mistake the second time...

I didnt vote for Bush based on the fact I knew where we would be headed if we elected him, I wanted to get Sadamm more then most, but I didnt want the US being the point on the arrow in the removal.

So that puts me at where I am today... I read articles and the responses by some people like you and I think damn Im glad I dont live in that persons nation, or wow maybe American Political parties are just another version of the KKK, Nazi, or other hate groups..

Politics shouldnt be an anger filled thing, it should be a intelligence filled thing, and since I have been old enough to vote (thats a long time now) I have seen it go down hill to the point it is today, where people who dont even have a vote feel they need to belittle others in order to make one side look better then the other...

If we consider McCains and Palins comments as low life then comments from the like of You Sushisake are sub-below-life.. you have made it a point to say the rudest most vile things about two other humans just to make a point that your guy is better, when in reality they are just two peas from a pod....

This goes for those who say the same about Obama.....

People who are so happy with the possibility of Obama's victory should calm down and think what will ACTUALLY happen in the future if John McCain's predictions all come true! Obama can not change anything ,Iraq becomes AQ's HQ, Pakistan withdraws support for America ...My point is even Obama momentum seems unstoppable and he can win but America still have mountains of problems to deal with. And Obama only TALKS that he will sovle those! that's all.

Superlib - "Why do you sometimes frame your arguments in ways that makes it impossible for an intelligent person to respect them?"

It's an opinion, the stating of which - last time I checked - is precisely what JT is all about.

That said, I'm still waiting for someone to give us a credible reason as to why we should be concerned about this Obama-Ayers connection, and more pertinantly, what the heck it has to do with righting the rapidly sinking U.S. economy, besides said connection being used as a blatant distraction by people who support a certain elderly presidential candidate who, like many of his followers, has simply run out of ideas.

tclh - "And Obama only TALKS that he will sovle those! that's all."

Meanwhile, mccain simply wants to make them worse and here's why:

1/mccain claimed a few days ago he wants to produce a balanced budget.

2/ And at the same time mccain wants America to stay in Iraq until some vaguely undefined notion of 'victory' is somehow magically achieved in the near total absence of any credible plan.

Problem: 2/ is costing the US $10-30 billion a month. Conclusion: mccain is dreaming about 1/ being achieved on his watch.

Ditto for the paradox of mccain wanting to combat climate change and drill for oil at the same time.

Ditto for being for financial industry deregulation for 20 years and cleaning up the current financial meltdown.

I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point.

On the other hand, Obama wants:

1/ Out of Iraq ==> far more likely to help free up extra cash for future bailouts.

2/ A serious strategy to combat climate change that reduces the need for oil.

Again, I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point.

Americans are going to be mighty disappointed when they find out that President Obama can't deliver on most of his promises.

On the other hand, Obama wants:

1/ Out of Iraq ==> far more likely to help free up extra cash for future bailouts. (Obama wants to move troops from Iraq to Afghanistan same amount of troops different location still 10 bil a month)

2/ A serious strategy to combat climate change that reduces the need for oil. (He wants to do off shore drilling, and has basically the same other source energy as McCain)

Both have budgets that with tax cuts and increases,they show them close to the same spending amount.. 200 bil more then now for McCain 286bil more for Obama..

One wants to give business a tax break the other wants to give it to the little guy... Both dont work well. One gives the big business a tax break, but they have so many loop holes that they pay way less then they should already, and the other wants to tax them more, but they have too many loopholes for that to even work... The little guy gets about the same benifit all the way down to 50 k a year..... people under that get a benefit under Obama of 400 a year or less, which if you figure that out thats 1.10 a day for them..

Your trying to hard to find a magic spot that one of them is for the people and has a great plan and its not there...

sarge: "Smart aleck comment." (about McCain being a crappy pilot)

Smart aleck it may be, but the truth it is without a doubt. McCain destroyed more American planes singlehandedly than probably any single Viet Namese in the entire war! And again, the only difference between McCain and bush is that the latter was a slightly better pilot! hahaha.

"Americans are going to be mighty disappointed when they find out that President Obama can't deliver on most of his promises."

We'll see if he can live up to his promises or not -- he'll be awfully busy cleaning up the huge mess and disasters bush and co. made while the Republicans were in office. Still, it's better than if McCain got in office, where EVERYONE would be disappointed because McCain went 180 on all his promises... well... save for those at the receiving end of the pork-barrel projects he would pay into, and his rich buddies, etc. Fortunately, since the Dems have it, we'll never have to endure the latter.

"Problem: 2/ is costing the US $10-30 billion a month. Conclusion: mccain is dreaming about 1/ being achieved on his watch."

It is estimated that for every ten dollars/barrel that the price of oil drops the massive US economy saves 10 billion dollars.

You can see why Obama's party is opposed to domestic drilling or even the development of a whole new industry (tens of thousands of new jobs) aimed at exploiting the world's largest shale oil oil reserves - found right in the middle of the good ol US of A.

Please. Can we focus on what needs to be done to solve our problems and stop dreaming up dime store novel ideas about how to undermine the guys running for office. The choice is clear. Change or more of the same. The people are chosing change.

With Obama, the only thing that would change is the president's skin color. Obama does not represent change, if you look at how he has voted in the past.

But having said that, a McCain victory is truly scary. McCain is physically ill and mentally unstable, and Palin's interviews were embarassing, she's an idiot.

If you want change, vote for someone like Nader.

Nippon5 -

"Sushisake3

I would rather see the goverment pay off debt for the American people then for the companies that do business in America.."

Totally agreed.

"Thirdly we need to get some type of reform in campaign finance so we are not having candidates buying an election like Bush did and Obama is doing."

Agreed.

"So that puts me at where I am today... I read articles and the responses by some people like you and I think damn Im glad I dont live in that persons nation,2

Interestingly, I think most non-Americans who post on JT are ecstatic they aren't Americans, no offence.

"Politics shouldnt be an anger filled thing, it should be a intelligence filled thing"

Agreed, however that's like saying the sun should really be a bit cooler than it is.

It's a given, whether you like it or not.

"you have made it a point to say the rudest most vile things about two other humans just to make a point that your guy is better, when in reality they are just two peas from a pod...."

How about giving some examples?

Sushi, WHAT are you talking about?

1/ Victory was defined a VERY long time ago. Just because the left's talking points ignore them doesn't mean they do not exist.

2/ EVERYONE is for a reduction in the need for oil. The facts are that in order to wean ourselves off dependency from foreign oil, we need to expand OUR OWN production. Oil is used for far more that fuel, and we have it. Tech leaves a very small footprint today and has been shown to have very little, IF ANY, affect on ecology. It's a RESOURCE... why not access it to our benefit?

3/ Your buddy BHO isn't going to get anyone out of Iraq any quicker than anyone else. "Free pizza's for every household" is a great mantra, but he's gonna find out that it's a different story once he's in office and actually is responsible for the mess. It's not as easy as he wants it to be.

Back to Ayers... these are LEGITIMATE questions that need to be asked and answered. Answers from Obama's CAMPAIGN managers are not sufficient when the investigative efforts of the media is non-existent. There has been, and IS, enough of a connection established to warrant looking into it.

He didn't know Wright was a racist. He didn't know Pfleger was a racist. He didn't know Acorn was a voter fraud machine, even as the trainer. He didn't know Ayers had a radical past. He didn't know Rezco was a crook. so forth and so on.

He seems to surround himself with crooked thieves and known racists, but he NEVER knows about their crimes or offending behavior? It is MORE than time for a serious look into each and everyone of those connections. "I didn't know" works once or twice. But it seems to have replaced CHOPE as his official motto... why?

Don't worry Sarge McCain will win, something strange will happen again with the voting in some states, like when bush was running for second term

Sarge - "Americans are going to be mighty disappointed when they find out that President Obama can't deliver on most of his promises."

Sarge, I thought you were pro-America? What happened???

sushisake3, my point is simple :don't count chicken before it hatches! Power Money Politics are tightly related to each other, politicians can be just actors, for show only,and not necessarily run the country the way they promises during election. Good talking does not automatically turn into good doing, so many things involved in reality.

"McCain is physically ill..."

He has his share of medical problems, but he is basically in good health - at least compared to Cheney.

"... and mentally unstable"

Even the Democrats don't claim that.

"Palin's interviews were embarrassing..."

Yeah, for the interviewers. Except for the one with Hannity.

"... she's an idiot."

She is not.

"If you want change, vote for someone like Ralph Nader."

If you want to waste your vote, vote for someone like Ralph Nader.

Nippon: "Thank you for defining JT as an open forum we can use to spread hate and slander people.... I found it as a news blog before but you have shed a new light on it"

It still exists predominantly as a news site; you are the one choosing whether to read/reply to people's comments. What's more, not at of it is slander by any means... especially since slander is the spread of FALSE information, where comments made on McCain are true. Finally, what you are referring to is actually LIBEL, not SLANDER, technically, since slander is spoken and libel is defamation in the written form. I suppose you could call the comments 'speech', but still.

"Personaly I think you feel this blog is a game and you come here to post in different handles to try and stir a hornets nest, which if that is true it would explain why you think its opinion to use hate speach about people."

I don't think you've been on here very long, which explains why you are ill-informed. If you want to see people with different handles, you only have to look at the few McCain supporters on here -- EVERY one of them has had at least one other handle in recent years, and one radical rightie on here has had at least several in the past two months... he keeps getting the boot. They tend to choose VERY different handles, to hide their shame, but their tone is always the same and eventually they resort to the same kind of insults you pretend to decry in your comment. Sushi, adaydream, and others, on the other hand, HAVE changed handles once or twice, but that was largely due to the new format and reregistration on the new JT site, and the names changed from, for example, SushiSake2 to SushiSake3; you would have to be pretty dense to figure out he's not the same person.

In short, if you want to come on here and point out and accuse people of changing handles to stir the pot, you need only look those few remaining McBush supporters to find them. I'm sorry, but it's true... There are a few tried and true righties on here who have stuck to one handle, or changed to a similar one, recently, but at one point last month there were an average of 2 to 3 new handles being made a DAY to follow up on each other's comments and call Obama names, root for McBush, etc.

Sushi - Nothing's happened. Why?

The latest Zogby poll has Obama with a measly 5-point lead. I guess it's time for Obama to take the gloves off. Heh heh.

sarge: I'm sorry bud, but only a person who SHOULD be embarrassed thinks that Sarah Palin's interviews were an embarrassment to anyone else besides her. Seriously... she could not talk for all the crap spewing out of her mouth. Look at the way she answers this question, sarge... even the people at CNN were laughing their a$$es off at her:

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=L8__aXxXPVc

She is, indeed, truly an idiot. She'll be lucky if she's still employed when she scurries back to hide in Alaska come November.

Nippon5

[SushiSake3] 1/ Out of Iraq ==> far more likely to help free up extra cash for future bailouts.

[Nippon5](Obama wants to move troops from Iraq to Afghanistan same amount of troops different location still 10 bil a month)

closing off 1 war and concentrating on another war instead of fighting 2 wars at once.

[SushiSake3] 2/ A serious strategy to combat climate change that reduces the need for oil.

[Nippon5] (He wants to do off shore drilling, and has basically the same other source energy as McCain)

Obama, as you know, did NOT want offshore drilling. He was unfortunately forced to support it.

sarge: "The latest Zogby poll has Obama with a measly 5-point lead. I guess it's time for Obama to take the gloves off. Heh heh."

hahaha... ah, the ZOGBY poll again! How about every other poll that has him behind 10 or more points?

Loki520 -"1/ Victory was defined a VERY long time ago."

Which definition are you refering to?

the "victory" that involved finding WMD? the "victory" that involved spreading democracy? the "victory" that involved taking out Saddam? the "victory" that involved installing government? the "victory" that involved free elections?

Which victory are you refering to?

coulrophobic: "Both 'smithinjapan' and 'sushisake' never offer facts and run away when challenged on the content of their posts. I think these two are one and the same person."

Neither Sushi nor I run from questions at all. In fact, it is you and your ilk who often decide to stop posting when you are bashed countless times over your comments, and asked consistently to offer one shred of a comment towards the actual issues at hand (how many times has Sushi challenged you personally today to talk about the economy, but you can only talk about Obama -- I realize you're obsessed with the man, but still!). However, I think Sushi would agree with me, posting 'quotations' from a friend's blog, or even a blog that doesn't belong to a friend (but to a ultra-rightie OR leftie) is not really what you can call 'proof'.

Nice try at spinning your own faults onto others, but we don't buy it, nor does the general reading public... haha.

Loki520 - "2/ EVERYONE is for a reduction in the need for oil. The facts are that in order to wean ourselves off dependency from foreign oil, we need to expand OUR OWN production."

??? Q: how does reducing dependency on foreign oil by INCREASING dependency on US oil support your claim that "EVERYONE is for a reduction in the need for oil."?

It seems like you are contradicting yourself.

Loki520 - "It's [oil] a RESOURCE... why not access it to our benefit?"

Better still, why not have a look at Obama's energy plan of accessing a FREE endless energy resource of sunshine?

Why pay for a finite resource (oil)???

Ok suki cause you asked me to find some here is a few of the 145 pagees of your hate talk about Palin and McCain..I would of done more but you say things like this about americans and political people so often I would have to quit work to cut and paste them all..

Sorry

What a loser.

mccain is a total disgrace not only to the GOP but to thinking Americans.

Americans deserve far better than any of the has-been airheads on the McCain-Palin Celebrity Ticket.

john mccain is now well on his way to join all the other America-haters out there who are hellbent on wrecking the once great nation of America.

He clearly failed, as he will fail America should Americans ever be stupid enough to elect him.

Clearly the GOP's October Surprise is that john mccain picked such an unqualified loser in Sarah Palin.

The only way I can describe Sarah Palin is 'ditsy.'

No insult intended, but in the 5-odd years I've been debating Republicans on JT, it has ALWAYS felt like I have been talking with a bunch of kids.

Heh, the only ones who'll be sad to see the GOP get booted out of power next month will be Americans who hate their country and the terrorists who have thrived under the policies of current GOP president GWBush

These days are geting tough for the anti-American mcain-Palin supporters.

can you tell us how your country is going to finance Sarah Palin's planned invasion of Russia?

Sure, Palin will appeal to the simple country folk who, like her, probably don't or have only recently acquired a passport and whose idea of global affairs doesn't reach much beyond their town borders and stuff they see on TV.

I doubt the anti-American mccain-Palin ticket will get much of a bounce out of this debate.

mccain knows Palin is a loser.

Does she have any besides shrieking

tclh - "Good talking does not automatically turn into good doing, so many things involved in reality."

I totally agree, however I also firmly believe that a reasonably powerful politician with good ideas is far better than a powerful, effective politician with bad ideas.

Sure, some of the reasonably powerful politician's ideas may not become law, but that's infinitely better in the long run than a powerful, influential politician making collosal screw-ups like bush has in Iraq and in his failure to take climate change seriously.

In fact, right now, we are seeing all too clearly the effects of the latter type of politician.

smith: "How about every other poll that has him behind 10 or more points?"

I haven't seen any polls that have Obama behind 10 points.

Anyway, polls, schmolls. The only one that counts is the one on Nov.4.

The new TV ad now being broadcast in the swing states:

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=ONfJ7YSXE5w

RR

Loki520

1/ Victory was defined a VERY long time ago. Just because the left's talking points ignore them doesn't mean they do not exist.

The problem Loki, can I call you Loki?, is that we needed to achieve victory instead of defining it. Yes, achieve was the answer we were looking for. So sorry. But thanks for playing.

sarge: "Anyway, polls, schmolls. The only one that counts is the one on Nov.4."

ummm... okay... well, I agree with you to an extent, but then why did you go on laughing and quoting the Zogby poll? As for the others, Gallup in particular had Obama 11 points ahead just yesterday... errr... perhaps the day before. Maybe it's more, now.

Nippon5 - thanks for your impressive list of some of my past comments.

In my humble defence, could I ask 2 simple questions?

1/ Why do you seem to be outraged by comments that you would likely hear any day of the week in a pub, bar or cafe and in any discussion about the US election?

2/ Would you care to post some of mccain/Palin's recent comments about Obama so that you can illustrate clearly for us that the GOP ticket are beyond reproach in respect to insults?

(hint: Please ignore any that mention 'liar,' 'kill him!' or that either obviously or subtlely insult Obama by way of his race or skin color?

Sarge at 03:41 PM JST - 10th October

/

The latest Zogby poll has Obama with a measly 5-point lead. I guess it's time for Obama to take the gloves off. Heh heh.

There you go again. Trying to turn bad news into good news. Wasn't it yesterday that you reported Zogby as calculating a 4-point lead. By your chosen poll Obama is gaining on McCain. Of course real polls show Obama with a double digit lead. Bless your heart sarge, you just keep your chin up and keep listening to High Hopes on your phonograph.

goodDonkey: "Wasn't it yesterday that you reported Zogby as calculating a 4-point lead. By your chosen poll Obama is gaining on McCain. Of course real polls show Obama with a double digit lead."

Didn't you read the succeeding posts? I told him the same thing (latter part, anyway) and he then went on to say 'Polls schmolls, the only one that matters is the one on Nov.4"!! He does just keep on truckin', the little tucker.

The Gallup poll has had Obama up by 11% for two days but I can also play it sarge's way. Muhlenberg tracking poll: Obama over McCain, 51-38. Wow that is 13%.

I think posters should take a look at this:

www.electoral-vote.com/

Not sure whether its creators are Rep. or Dem., but whatever - it's bad news for mccain.

This is worth a read - [Source: www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=sympathy_for_mccain]

"McCain's crazed negativity may not have been the nastiest in recent history -- it's always hard to maintain perspective, or even remember exactly what happened, four or 20 years ago. But it surely violated three basic rules of campaigning devised by Lee Atwater and Karl Rove for Bush per et fils:

Keep your name and face off the most vicious attacks. The Bushes maintained credible distance and deniability about the Willie Horton attacks against Dukakis and the Swift Boat attacks on John Kerry. But McCain's name is all over the attack ads on Obama, like the one claiming that he supported sex education for kindergartners. That deadly disclaimer "I'm John McCain and I approve this message" was of course added by virtue of the campaign-finance law that is McCain's one notable accomplishment.

Establish your positive message before going hard-negative. Is there a McCain governing message? On foreign policy, it's war. On the economy, who knows?

Attacks don't have to be true, or even have a grain of truth, but they have to resonate with something people already associate with the target, and have enough proximity to the truth that the media will echo them, at least as a possibility. McCain's ads calling Obama a vacuous celebrity met that low bar; "palling around with terrorists" doesn't.

To these, I would add a fourth -- you have to have the nerve to stick with it. McCain built up the expectation that he would deliver the fatal blow at last night's debate. And yet, given the opportunity to put an exclamation point on all the ads and surrogate speeches, he backed down. The seething anger was still present, but it was as empty and inexplicable as his policy proposals."

I got you beat there Sushi. While the numbers for Obama are not nearly as impressive, the source may make it necessary for some Republicans to change there undergarments. (I wanted to use the word "knickers" but apparently those are only women's undergarments. Anyone?)

From the Rove man himself.

http://rove.com/election

Sarge, McCain the War Hero wouldn't have gotten near a plane without his connections. Read the Rolling Stone expose.

Ultimately, I ended up learning about the fact that he had engaged in this reprehensible act 40 years ago, but I was eight years old at the time and I assumed that he had been rehabilitated.

obama needs to keep his lies striaght. First, obama said that he didn't know nothin' about Ayers' terrorist crimes. Now he's saying he assumed that Ayers had been rehabilitated. If obama didn't know about Ayers' crimes, then why would he assume that Ayers needed rehabilitating?

Also, how old was That One in 2001 when this picture was taken of his buddy Ayres?

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b142/WynB/RN%20Pictures/AyersonFlag.jpg

Guess he was still in need of some rehabilitatin'.

RR

Sushi..

Its funny but Ive been going to bars for over 25 years and havent once heard anyone talk about politics to any degree, I guess I just go to places that people dont talk politics about. And when I do come to the point that I hear political conversation I rarely hear anyone speak in such negative means as they do on here. (maybe that no one knows me for real cause Im on the internet thing applies here.) ...

I guess to answer your first question I would have to say I dont like that kind of talk about people in general, and I find it very sad that people try make a point (and some of the points are good) rudely and with out looking at both sides... I guess I just think your point would mean more if it didnt have the hate attached, and also not calling people who vote for one candidate over the other non/anti American because I do find that offensive, and I am very proud to be American and to have served, and I vote for both sides depending on who I feel will do the best..

Question 2.. I have posted them and countered them when they lie, I have stated they need to drop the hate, and I have posted the factchecks for those intrested to actually see how bad they lie.. Sushi I would have to post everyone of NeoCon/what ever handle he uses right now out of the 50 he has. We all know he post hate things about Obama.

as far as hate stuff from parties I see it form both sides.. Its just idiotic and looks like playground stuff when done..

I said Palin was full of it when she stated about Ayers, I just didnt agree with the statement Ayers isnt a terrorist.... I also posted about John McCain and his lies and misquotes.

I already voted for this election. It wasnt for McCain, but it also wasnt for his twin Obama... I just dont get a good feel for either of them, and neither has proven they have a real plan to bring us up... Math doesnt lie and their math is fuzzy at best and close to ruining the US at its worse --- both of them not just one of them...

When you post with normal speach and not the hate stuff you make good points, some times (dont get your head all big).. but when you use the Pub talk as you say then you lose your appeal as a debater..

As far as the strange question of how long Ive been on here--- over a year posting and 5 years or so watching.. I first came to japan over 10 years ago and have read this site since... Does that really matter, did I get a new GS rating for senority?

and even though I spent a ton of time writting this it goes to the side of the road and becomes just another ignored logical thought lost on the highway of political extremes..

William Gates/ Steven Jobs 2012!!!!

Mr. McCain and Gov. Palin don't talk about the Ayers connection 24/7; it's only part of what they talk about.

If That One wants to blame anyone for focusing on it, he should blame his dog walkers within the MSM and AP. I mean, who's he going to fire at CNN now that they've run a story on how obama was less than truthful about his relationship with Ayers?

Heh, the guy just can't buy good help anymore.

I’m not tapped out on this one yet…

Terrorist: You just gotta’ love how the Republicans so casually toss around the word these days, retroactively applying it to anything and anyone to serve nothing other than political expediency. By Republican estimates, the list of people and groups that should be labeled terrorists would be a long one indeed, including WTO protestors, inner city gangs, Samuel Adams, and the original Minute Men. Hell, why stop there? Let’s throw George Washington on the list for good measure, for his terror-inspiring guerilla warfare tactics.

"Terrorist" with a capital “T”: This is the new catchword of the Republican Party. Forget “Traditional Values©.” Haven’t heard that one once during this campaign. Forget “Smaller Government®.” That’s barely gotten a nod from the GOP’s candidate. “Trickle Down Economics™,” the veritable backbone of Republican economic policy? Not a peep. It’s all about the Terrorists ©®™ now, heaven help us all.

"McCain the War Hero wouldn't have gotten near a plane without his connections. Read the Rolling Stone expose."

So lessee: Bush didn't go to Vietnam - must have relied on his connections.

But McCain went - must have relied on connections.

Read the High Times expose...

So, the guy who didn't know he was sitting in a domestic terrorist's living room is now applying for the job to protect all us Americans from terrorism?

obama's either a very bad liar or very, very stupid. Probably a little of both.

Coulrophobic,

Bush's connections have more influence, yes?

More freaky Obama worship.

Recent video of the racist anti-Semite Louis Farakkhan telling a crowd of thousands that Obama is the Messiah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVHBLeqYo60

coulrophobic at 05:41 PM JST - 10th October

More freaky Obama worship.

Your combining two parts of what he is saying to get the connection, seems to me he is saying obama bringing the young to vote is a sign and the sign means the messiah is speaking... Not Obama is the messiah.. Sorry

coulrophobic: "But McCain went - must have relied on connections."

McCain did indeed depend on connections to both get into Viet Nam as quickly as he did, and to be able to fly in combat missions after trashing three planes (two in stupid stunts, and the third which nearly destroyed an aircraft carrier).

"...seems to me he is saying obama bringing the young to vote is a sign and the sign means the messiah is speaking..."

Which then begs the question, nippon5:

Whose messiah is Nation Of Islam leader Louis Farakkhan referring to?

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-aviator6-2008oct06,0,876358,full.story

Smith your off a tad on the description of what happened heres a link to the whole story

Did Ayers commit terrorist acts? Yes. He admits as such. Do HIS actions 40 years ago reflect on Obama's character and subsequently his desire to make a positive contribution to his community in Chicago 10 years ago? No. This little else but political smoke-and-mirrors to divert voter attention from more pressing issues.

In any case, if Ayers truly is still the evil, unrepentant terrorist you and others seem convinced he is, then why isn't anyone screaming for his re-arrest and re-trial (double-jeopardy restrictions notwithstanding)?

The answer is simple: Political opportunism, pure and simple. This isn't about Ayers and never has been. It's about casting a shadow of doubt over Obama's character though innuendo and unsubstantiated suggestion. Guilt by association. That's what I'm disgusted with.

Obama has repeatedly denounced Farrakhan and criticized any kind of anti-semitism. Here is one example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4pcZ2u8h_g

"McCain did indeed depend on connections to both get into Viet Nam as quickly as he did, and to be able to fly in combat missions after trashing three planes (two in stupid stunts, and the third which nearly destroyed an aircraft carrier)."

Indeed.

If you say so.

"We all know."

"Everybody knows."

Two points to note here about the McCain & Palin witch hunting sessions over a supposed Obama-Ayers connection.

Point 1: William Ayers now holds the title of 'distinguished professor" in the Education department at the University of Illinois in Chicago. Would he have been given the title if he had truly been the mad bomber McCain & Palin paint him as? The answer would have to be a big fat NO. That is unless you thought these kinds of institutions are above the law.

The truth shows just how ludicrous is the charges McCain & Palin/the Republican campaign levy against Ayers.

The total death toll attributed to the organisation Ayer's was part of, the Weather underground, amounts to 3. That's 3 people as compared to the 3 million estimated dead Vietnamese killed during the war the Weather Underground protested. And get this, those 3 people, who accidently blew themselves up, were all members-of-the-group-itself!

Point 2: this demonstrates the incredible hypocrisy of Palin's involvement in connecting Obama with 'terrorist Ayers'. Sarah Palin's husband was a member (and she herself a political sympathizer) of the Alaska Independence Party (AIP). The AIP call for the secession of Alaska from the union. They formed the Alaskan chapter of the Constitution Party, and it is this extreme right-wing organization advocating Christian theocratic rule in America. But here is where Palin's hypocrisy kicks in. In 1993, its founder, Joe Vogler, was killed when he blew himself up in what was described by the media as a “plastic-explosives sale gone bad."

Jerry White is the presidential candidate for the Socialist Equality Party (SEP) in America. If you are looking for real change take 8 minutes and watch Jerry reply to the 2nd debate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f105OlulLAI&feature=related

"Point 1: William Ayers now holds the title of 'distinguished professor" in the Education department at the University of Illinois in Chicago. Would he have been given the title if he had truly been the mad bomber McCain & Palin paint him as? The answer would have to be a big fat NO. That is unless you thought these kinds of institutions are above the law."

You . know. nothing. about. "higher education" . in. America.

Since we're on the topic...

If Obama’s relationship with Ayers was really such a problem, Obama’s presidential aspirations would have withered away long before they had a chance to take root, a la the Gary Hart Meltdown of ‘88. If Clinton and her staff felt there was anything there, you can be sure they would have exploited it. If the voters of Illinois felt there was a problem, they never would have chosen Obama as their U.S. senator with 70% of the vote. If the relationship really was such a problem, the GOP posters here would have jumped all over it loooong before Palin ever brought it up last week, and well before Clinton did last spring.

But now that it’s in vogue (and McCain’s down in the polls), quite predictably, they’re tripping over themselves to try and twist it into a - quote-unquote - "legitimate" issue rather than focus on the true heart of this election, namely bringing about the kind of policies that will restore some of the prestige and economic clout squandered needlessly by the current administration over the past 8 years of foreign policy folly and unmitigated economic greed by the very people entrusted to guard the vaults. In other words, it’s pure and simple distraction, or, more colloquially speaking, utter bullshit.

Ayers is a non-issue, and this guilt-by-association strategy, or more specifically, the very thinly-veiled suggestion that knowing a former domestic terrorist makes Obama, in turn, a terrorist himself, is shockingly bass-askwards, unsophisticated, and obvious.

Using this skewed logic, that would make Anne Hallett, executive director and founder of the Cross-City Campaign for Urban School Reform, Warren Chapman, senior program officer for education at the Joyce Foundation, Adele Smith Simmons, president of the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, Patricia Albjerg Graham, former dean of the Harvard Graduate School of Education, and Deborah Leff, director of the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library all terrorists by association, even more so than Obama, since they all worked hand-in-hand with Ayers to develop the Chicago Annenberg Challenge and the subsequent board of directors to which Obama was later nominated to head . . . by Deborah Leff. Not Ayers.

Piss and moan about Ayers all you want, but he turned himself in. He stood before his peers for judgment. And was let off the hook for reasons entirely out of his control. He then went on to do a lot of good things for the children of Chicago, Illonois, and education reform in general. You want to go after someone, go after Ayers. Attempt to retry him for domestic terrorism. But don’t expect anyone with a shred of intelligence to buy this “We need to know the full extent of the relationship” decoy.

Hell, George W. Bush himself used cocaine during his misspent youth, putting money into the coffers of South American drug cartels responsible for terrorism on a massive scale throughout Columbia and he made it to the Presidency. Can’t give the same slack to Obama for associating with a man who committed crimes some 40 years ago? Ahh, the “traditional values” Party.

A long walk off a short pier is due to those who think Obama's philanthropic association with not only Ayers, but dozens of other highly respected, honorable, devoted members of American society into something can be so easily diluted with something as trite and childish as "he might be a terrorist."

Do I think GOP supporters really believe Obama’s a terrorist? Not for a second. Do I believe that this tactic, one that would well devastate a lesser person’s life, is orchestrated solely to win, no matter who or what it destroys, in November? Abso-frickin-lutely. Which makes this all even more abominable. Win at any cost. ANY cost. Ahh, again, the “traditional values” Party. Warms the cockles, I tell you. Quite frankly, playing the terrorist card this blatantly is an embarrassment to the political underpinnings of the United States.

In the meantime, Palin gets away without scott-free, despite her husband’s acknowledged affiliation with a political party whose basic tenet is secession from the Union. SECESSION!

Once a terrorist, always a terrorist, someone wrote recently here regarding Ayers. So it stands to reason, once a secessionist, always a secessionist, right? And if you’re sleeping with the secessionist, weeeeell, it’s sealed then. Palin must be a secessionist, by association alone. See? The Republican logic should cut both ways, and yet, unsurprisingly, it doesn’t. Again, the distinct stench of hypocrisy and desperation continues to grow.

You . know. nothing. about. "higher education" . in. America.

Hahahahaha, Coulro, if you only knew.

In any case, if Ayers truly is still the evil, unrepentant terrorist you and others seem convinced he is, then why isn't anyone screaming for his re-arrest and re-trial (double-jeopardy restrictions notwithstanding)?

As you say the reason he isnt retried is the fact you cant do it, just like with OJ... thats the only reason..

taniwha..

What does his present work have to do with him blowing up buildings? also why does it matter how many died from his terrorist acts vs how many died from what he was against.. It makes no sense at all.

Your logic is that if you destroy others property to make a point in a fasion that uses terror tactics you shouldnt be called a terrorist because you didnt kill anyone and well you had a good reason...

OBL has a good reason for his attacks too. He feels that foriegn militaries shouldnt be on the holy land.. That makes his attacks ok? You cant use the well he had a good reason excuse since everyone who does something for a cause thinks they have a good reason.. You also cant say well they didnt kill anyone, because they damaged or destroyed property and that is considered terrorism...

Also just for the record the Weather Underground also killed two police men in cold blood... and two of them are in Jail for it.

LFRAgain... Im with ya on being tired of people trying to link others to things they didnt do.. Like Obama being a terrorist, or Palin wanting to attack Russia, or Biden being that naked Brit in the Moat, or McCain being anything other then a war hero and serving his country...

You . know. nothing. about. "higher education" . in. America.

Yay! I knew it was only a matter of time before someone trained their guns on education in America. Yes, yes, hotbeds for Socialist dissent. Commies, the lot of them. Working to overthrow civilization. Right, coulrophobic. And the GOP assault on intellectualism and the highest common denominator marches on...

Better to be poorly read than . . . err . . . Red. Right, Patriot?

Oh, BTW, anything new on Obama's supposed ineligibility to run for president due to citizenship issues?

Or were you too busy looking for a history of library fines Obama may have covered up?

Nippon5

What does his present work have to do with him blowing up buildings? also why does it matter how many died from his terrorist acts vs how many died from what he was against.. It makes no sense at all.

You are right! It should have no bearing at all on the man now. Except for the role Ayers has been placed in, as his title "distinguished professor" clearly determines. Perhaps you would prefer they gave him the title "notorious professor".

Oh, and other than that being the entire substance of McCain & Palin's and the Republican claim that Obama is connected with a terrorist.

Your logic is that if you destroy others property to make a point in a fasion that uses terror tactics you shouldnt be called a terrorist because you didnt kill anyone and well you had a good reason...

No, that's not what I said, and you are sounding a bit shrill.

Also just for the record the Weather Underground also killed two police men in cold blood... and two of them are in Jail for it.

No, two of the organisation are not in jail for that reason.

I'm talking about what we know. Facts. Not here-say or reactionary accusations. If you are talking about pipe bomb placed on a San Francisco Police Department window ledge in February 1970, which did result in death. That was NEVER conclusively attributed to the group. Certainly never by a court of law. You are sounding a lot like McCain & Palin.

In fact it was their modus operandi to bomb buildings that were closed and where there would be no people within harms way. They were interested in the media attention, not a death count.

In 1970 he "went underground Innocent people dont go hide

http://billayers.wordpress.com/2008/04/06/episodic-notoriety-fact-and-fantasy/

wow after reading this mans own words I have just come to a conclusion on him, he sees what he does as just but everyone else is wrong.. wow this is seriosly scary.. This guy says america was a terrorist because it tryied to cause terror but he wasnt because .. well he says just because.. Dont you think it would be terrorfiying to not know if your work building was going to be blown up by a group of radicals????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinksrobbery(1981) thats the info on the bank robbery they did..

you should slow down your getting ahead of your self and answering questions based on belief and not fact, also you should tone down the attempts to be rude and childish as it isnt proper..

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1847793,00.html?imw=Y

Time sees it differently. So do most other media with an online site, but I'll leave you to google them.

And, um, did anyone tell you that anyone can put what ever they like on Wiki. It is up to the next contributer to edit if they don't agree.

also you should tone down the attempts to be rude and childish as it isnt proper..

Ye-ahh, I promise I will try. Sorry.

"We all know." ... "Everybody knows."

Which is exactly the point. Mr. McCain's history is well known by the American voters. However obama, with the help of his dog walkers in the U.S. media, is trying to scrub out many aspects his past (his origins, ties to Ayres, Wright, Rezko, Mansur, Farakkhan, ACORN, etc, etc.).

The points the GOP are making to the American voting public are valid ones. They are merely doing the job that the media refused to do.

Also, polls don't mean squat. Past polls all showed mondale ahead of Ronald Reagan in 1984, dukakis ahead of George H.W. Bush in 1988, and gore and kerry ahead of President Bush in 2000 and 2004.

If the global liberals' citing poll numbers make them sleep better at night, then so be it.

obama based his election strategy on: 1.) running for president qualifies him to be president, and 2.) he and he alone has made past judgements that qualifies him to be president.

Since the McCain campaign cannot assess obama based on his voting record in the Senate (voting "present" on issues makes him a crafty politician, not a leader), all they are left with is his past judgement calls.

In that area, That One's chickens are coming home to roost.

RR

Nipppon5

Im with ya on being tired of people trying to link others to things they didnt do.. Like Obama being a terrorist, or Palin wanting to attack Russia, or Biden being that naked Brit in the Moat, or McCain being anything other then a war hero and serving his country...

I couldn't agree with you more.

"Dont you think it would be terrorfiying to not know if your work building was going to be blown up by a group of radicals????"

You have, in but one question, summed up the entire 2008 GOP election campaign strategy. Which is my entire point regarding this farce that is the alleged Obama/Ayers "connection." It's a red herring thrown up by the GOP to literally scare up support for a foundering candidate.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,950580-1,00.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-04-17-fact-check-weather-underground_N.htm

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/terrorists_spies/terrorists/brinks/4.html

Ahh yes the old if you dont we all die line...

Its as bad as the line from the other party.. If you vote for him its like voting for Bush line...

Both are scare tactics..:)

RomeoRamenII Also, polls don't mean squat.

RomeoRamenII said:

Also, polls don't mean squat.

I have been waiting a long time for you to say that. I remember long before I ever introduced poll results you posted them on a comment because they were favorable to your interests. Now I could tell you what that makes you but then my comment would be removed. But I think people will be able to draw their own conclusions.

Nippon5,

I don't think there is any problem with trying Ayers for any crimes he may have committed. While he had not been charged when he went underground. Federal prosecutors filed charges against him while he was in hiding and then the prosecutors dropped them. When he resurfaced he was not charged.

In any event if he is currently devoted to the overthrow of the US government--and I think that is what a terrorist (like Timothy McVeigh) is devoted to--that in itself is a treasonable offense. He could be arrested and charged with it at any time. Why isn't the Bush justice department all over this?

McCain says that we need to know the full extent of Obama's involvement with Ayers. He has twice refrained from raising the issue with the very man who could tell him. Palin similarly refused to ask the man who might be expected to be able to speak for his running mate.

If McCain does not raise this issue in the next debate, it will be clear that his interest is not in finding out the extent of Obama's involvement. It will be clear that his only interest is tarring him with the brush of terrorism. Personally, I hope McCain does ask because I think he will regret Obama's answer.

Nippon5,

Additionally, please check the dates on the Brinks Robbery. Ayers and Dohrn did not participate in this. You persist in blaming them for something they clearly did not do.

Bernardine Dhorn is Ayers wife.

She narrated the first communique the Weather Underground made announcing their intention to attack major US institutions.

Trained as a lawyer but barred from practice after her years on the lam and her eventual arrest because of her slightly unconventional past she was nonetheless able to get work at the prestigious Chicago law firm Sidley Austin from 1984 to 1988. [http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E4D71739F933A25751C0A963948260] (Note that the NY TImes article dates from 1985.)

1988 is when Michelle Obama started working at Sidley Austin.

SezWho2

In any event if he is currently devoted to the overthrow of the US government--and I think that is what a terrorist (like Timothy McVeigh) is devoted to--that in itself is a treasonable offense. He could be arrested and charged with it at any time. Why isn't the Bush justice department all over this?

Actually Timothy McVeigh is a name that really needs to be included in this discussion. So good on you for bringing it up here! Why? Because it is Palin who alongside McCain is persisting in connecting Obama with terrorism, which given the current environment takes the mudslinging they are indulging in several steps toward a much more dangerous conclusion.

What is a fact is that Palin's husband, and so possibly Palin too, is associated with an organisation that parallels the right-wing militia movement. It is this organization that is far more in kind than the Weatherman with these extreme neo-fascist groups, the kind that Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols belonged too. The 1995 Oklahoma city bombing killed 168 people, and while the ALI have not done that, it has been associated with bomb making activities which has led to one death.

So it is perfectly apt for Sarah Palin to have similar connections with terror. Obama, though has not yet made those accusations. I imagine the hypocrisy of Palin's stance given her associations is ripe for the picking though. Watch out for tomorrows news coverage of fueding candidate.

And

That should be the AIP (the Alaska Independence Party. That ALI is a typo.

Who cares about Ayers and weather Obama at one point had lunch with this man or in the course of some community initiative did some work in which this person was also involved. It is just not going to work this time. Guilt by association and that he is a Muslim is just euphemism for the "N" word. It is a traditional Republican tactic where they play on the fears and ignorance of the American people. That simply will not wash this time

Oooooooh! Ayer's wife worked at a certain law firm. And Obama's wife started after Dhorn left. Oooooooh! Ominous.

Never mind that Sidley Austin is the 6th-largest corporate law firm in the nation, employing over 1800 laywers, thus dramatically increasing the odds that two people in the legal profession are going to work at the same firm as each other at some point in their careers. Never mind that Dhorn left the firm because she couldn't be recertified for the Illinois bar. Never mind that Michelle Obama entered the firm a year after Dhorn left. Never mind that Obama hadn't even met his future wife until 1989, again, a year after Dhorn had left. Never mind that Obama and his wife didn't get married until 3 years later. You sure do play fast and loose with the facts, don't you?

Seriously, coulrophobic, do you have a legitimate argument here, or are you just plain sore that your candidate isn't doing well?

P.S. - Still nothing more from you on Obama's citizenship qualifications, I see.

"Never mind that Dhorn left the firm because she couldn't be recertified for the Illinois bar. Never mind that Michelle Obama entered the firm a year after Dhorn left. Never mind that Obama hadn't even met his future wife until 1989, again, a year after Dhorn had left. "

And never mind that Hyde Park, where all concerned live, is basically an enclave of wealthy Chicago libs.

It's a riot watching Obama's fans, who have 'made a New Age god out of a Chicago hack', try and explain away and rationalize the man's ties to unrepentant, failed terrorists.

LFRAgain, your 06:28 PM JST post was one of the best examples of beautiful English I've read in a long time - composition, rhythm, sentence structure - it was awesome!

I think a majority of people would agree with you that the GOP claims about Ayers are simply a smokescreen to prop up a flailing mccain, but I doubt very much many people could have expressed it quite as eloquently as you did.

Keep it up!

So lessee: Bush didn't go to Vietnam - must have relied on his connections. But McCain went - must have relied on connections.

Exactly! McCain relied on his connections to go to Vietnam -- in the sense that he would've been kicked out of the military academy without his connections. Read the Rolling Stone expose, Coul. Have you read it? Are you afraid to read it?

It's a riot watching Obama's fans, who have 'made a New Age god out of a Chicago hack', try and explain away and rationalize the man's ties to unrepentant, failed terrorists.

No, what's funny is to watch McCain supporters confuse frenzied emotion within the base, which was always going to vote for him anyway, with an increase in support for McCain (which he needs to win).

Just because the crowds are becoming more riled up, and someone yelled "Off with his head!" yesterday along with "Osama, Obama" chants, doesn't translate into McCain winning over the electorate. Quite the contrary in fact; the repeated references to Ayers hurt McCain more than Obama among the electorate at large, So, by all means keep talkin' about him, please!!!!

I have read it, Nes.

Strikes me as a standard hit piece.

I guess I was impressed with the writer's candor elsewhere.

He has admitted he is pro-Obama.

Sorry, I just can't take seriously any mag featuring Obama with a halo. http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2008/03/05/the-new-issue-of-rolling-stone-barack-obama/

Rolling Stone lost my subscription back when I was in high school, over a less than favorable review of Sandinista, or a lack of enthusiasm for the DK's. I no longer remember.

I'm looking forward to the Troopergate ruling. If we're playing moral high ground, let's see if Palin's a crook before election day. Her guilt - and that of her subpoena-snubbing redneck husband - is of much more relevance than Obama's connection to a man who was active when Obama was 8.

Nessie

Read the Rolling Stone expose

I read it.....Worst piece of crap I ever read.

No Bias in that expose.

In August 2004 I took a vacation in the southwest. I ran into the Kerry campaign in Arizona and the Bush campaign in Nevada. It was sort of a pain given all the secret service and support staff running around. Aside from the inconvenience, however, I was never apprehensive about safety.

By contrast, I wouldn't go anywhere near a McCain/Palin campaign event. There's a real possibility for violence in the way they are going about this as they become more desperate. It won't work anyway.

SezWho2 at 07:48 PM JST - 10th October

Nippon5,

Additionally, please check the dates on the Brinks Robbery. Ayers and Dohrn did not participate in this. You persist in blaming them for something they clearly did not do.

OBL runs AQ under ground why would these two be any different? just because they where in the underground doesnt mean they stopped being the leaders of the group. Since they are not talking and I cant find proof either way I will error on the side of logic, and say they didnt go away from the planning of attacks for the group...

I also never said Ayers was part of the killings I stated his terrorist group was.... But we cant blame leaders for the mistakes of the group, like Bush now can we....?????.....?????

Once again I dont think Palin and McCain are right to say Obama is anything based off of being even friends with the guy, Im friends with alot of people and dont believe in their beliefs... I know thats a point everyone wants to attach too my statement,. but Im not concerned with Obamas relationship with the man.

Ayers is tenured, got a cushy job, never going to get fired. Nice gig he's got, not bad for a terrorist.

But what the hey McCain shouldn't bring Ayers into the conversation it's better to tell us how McCain he threw his ex-wife under the bus and then bitch that McCain brought Ayers into the conversation.

"I think a majority of people would agree with you that the GOP claims about Ayers are simply a smokescreen to prop up a flailing mccain..."

No one needs to make claims about Ayers. He confessed to everything he was accused of and as recently as 2001 expressed regret that he hadn't done more destruction.

Even 'claims' about Obama's ties to Ayers are not the central issue here.

The issue is Senator Obama's appalling judgement.

Again.

His chief Chicago financer, Syrian-born Tony Rezko, is under federal indictment.

His priest and spiritual adviser of 20 years - that is 1000 Sundays - was revealed to be a bigoted nutjob.

Obama and former terrorist Ayers doled out over a hundred million dollars to Chicago area schools, by all accounts with no discernable improvements in academic performance for the children who were meant to benefit.

I don't buy the idea that Obama was not aware of who he was.

Obama's books reveal his fascination with the upheavals in the 60's and even contain confession of a regret that he was born too late to participate.

A splinter group of the Weather Underground killed two policemen near Columbia University when Obama was a student there in the early 1980's.

There is no way a guy as sharp as Obama was oblivious to who he was dealing with.

Also Sez I know they had nothing to do with the attacks on the Brinks car, but they created the group, they taught the group that violence was the solution, as far as the other attacks and the group building bombs designed to kill humans (antipersonel) I would say it is likely that the group in the 70 misfire had plans to kill humans.. He isnt the viorgin Mary and shouldnt be considered a great guy because he changed his ways, which we dont know if he did?? do we?_??

The Chicago Reader dredged up a 1991 cover story on Bill Ayres and I think this is probably captures the essence of the man:

I know, I know; it's easy for someone like me (who was too young for the draft) to be judgmental about a heady, pressure-packed time 20 years ago. So many of us live our lives in quiet isolation, looking out mainly for ourselves. Ayers was willing to sacrifice his wealth and privilege for just causes--the end of war, the elimination of poverty. Maybe he got carried away, swept up by larger forces. He was only in his 20s. We all do dumb things when we're young.

But Ayers was worse than dumb. He was arrogant, dogmatic, and unbearably self-righteous. [A quality he shares with McCain.]

What does this have to do with Barack Obama? From reading Sailwind's post, I got the impression they were married!!! In fact they cohabit Hyde Park, which surrounds the University of Chicago. Anyone attacking the neighborhood probably can't afford to buy a home there. It's got the largest concentration of Nobel Peace Prize winners of any neighborhood in America. And the offspring of those scientific geniuses probably attend the same school as the Ayres kids, now grown, and the Obama girls. Guilt by association is a kinda dangerous path to go down (but keep going!!!)

Hey Betzee

Ayers has got tenure, I don't he is really concerned about main street and folks losing there jobs, his is guarenteed. Not bad for a terrorist no wonder Obama would pal around with him.

Ayers has got tenure, I don't he is really concerned about main street and folks losing there jobs, his is guarenteed. Not bad for a terrorist no wonder Obama would pal around with him.

Ayres has been rehabilitated in Chicago where he's made some contribution in education and is consulted on issues which relate to it. That's the opinion of Mayor Daley, whose father was mayor during the 1968 Democratic convention (remembered for the protesters).

What is Sarah Palin doing palling around with Alaskan secessionists? I don't really care frankly, and neither does the American public which is focused on the financial meltdown.

I read it.....Worst piece of crap I ever read. No Bias in that expose.

Thanks for the nuanced rebuttal, Sail.

Strikes me as a standard hit piece.

Being a hit piece doesn't make it less true, Coul.

SAilwind - "Not bad for a terrorist no wonder Obama would pal around with him."

Was that a serious attempt at a distraction from the key issues facing Americans, or just a thinly veiled joke?

Knowing you, I'm not sure.... :-)

Nippon5,

You actually do say that the Weather Underground was responsible for the Brinks robbery which resulted in the death of two policemen. You do not take any pains to state that Ayers and Dohrn had no hand in that. Moreover, when you say at 7:03 PM that the Brinks robbery is what "they did", you had just finished talking about Ayers and Dohrn in a previous post.

In any event, you OBL analogy is not apt. Ayers and Dohrn were not underground when the Brinks robbery was perpetrated. They had already given themselves up. And another reason why this is different is that they would have been arrested and charged if there was any indication that they were involved. OBL would probably be arrested and charged even if there weren't.

We can blame leaders for mistakes of the group. That's permissible. But we can't blame non-leaders and that's something that seems to be lost on the folks that blaming of Clinton and Carter for what the current administration is doing or not doing today. Ayers and Dohrn were not leading the group during the Brinks Robbery. Can you produce any evidence that they were. The police could not.

Yes, Ayers helped to create the group. He was one of 11 cofounders. It's find if you have questions about him. But you have to ask yourself why do you undertake to have questions about him when his friends, his peers, the University of Chicago and the city of Chicago do not?

Ayres has been rehabilitated in Chicago where he's made some contribution in education and is consulted on issues which relate to it.

And got himself a cushing lifetime job to show for for it. I don't think Ayers has one of those subprime mortgages on his house.

Nessie,

Sorry, But a Rolling Stone hit piece to prove your position? I passed my wanna be on the cover of the Rolling Stone a long while back...no offense.

He...expressed regret that he hadn't done more destruction.

You could also be talking about John McCain's regrets with respect to the Vietnam War. He's on record stating a more intensified bombing campaign would have made the difference. McCain can appreciate over-reliance on air strikes in Kosovo produced an unacceptable number of civilian casualties, but not the war he fought in because that would strip him of his war hero status (look what happened to John Kerry).

The American people want to close the book on the vicissitudes of the Vietnam War era. And that's why putting Bill Ayres front and center will fail.

Sorry, But a Rolling Stone hit piece to prove your position? I passed my wanna be on the cover of the Rolling Stone a long while back...no offense.

None taken, but I'm still waiting for that rebuttal.

Messie - I've gone back through all the posts on this thread and your posts the past 2 days and can't find your post with the Rolling Stone link - it must have got zapped. Anyway, I think I found what you're talking about - "Make-Believe Maverick," right? Pure trash.

Nessie! Not Messie! - Sorry! ( kind of like Messie, though - Tee hee! )

I get a kick out of the faux outrage shown by our resident neo-cons. It's so pathetically biased that it reaches comedy levels. Sen. Obama's relationship with William Ayers causes outrage. The bush family's ties to the house of Saud...nothing.

NOTHING. Not one peep from the right over the last 8 years.

Who has sponsored more terrorism between William Ayers and the house of Saud?

Nor did they balk when their dear leader invited taliban leaders to Texas.

Key points to take away from this post:

faux outrage

pathetic

neo-cons.

'Nuff said.

Taka

P.S.

Sen. Obama is up by 6.2 points on RCP and holds a 277/158 lead in electoral votes (353/185 with no toss-ups states). Get ready to follow Obama blindly neo-cons, lest you call yourselves traitors.

"You could also be talking about John McCain's regrets with respect to the Vietnam War."

You could.

But only a "liberal" would confuse attacking your own gov't with attacking a Stalinist regime.

"Sen. Obama's relationship with William Ayers causes outrage. The bush family's ties to the house of Saud...nothing."

Judging from your post, and the spelling you use, it's clear you side against the United States and with Saudi Arabia.

That's Okay.

Your party expects such "dissent"; they have designated it as the 'highest form of patriotism.'

You will probably be quite interested to learn that the man who got Obama into Harvard is very close to Prince Al Waleed bin Talal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8npeYfKI_ns

self-fearing one, Your party expects blind non-thinking obedience. I will be expecting it from you as well, come January.

Taka

Nessie

I did read Make-Believe Maverick: A closer look at the life and career of John McCain reveals a disturbing record of recklessness and dishonesty and found it quite enlightening.

coulrophobic

His chief Chicago financer, Syrian-born Tony Rezko, is under federal indictment.

Do try to keep up. Tony Rezko was found guilty on 16 of 24 charges in federal court. This was back on June 4th, 2008.

Also take note that Bush received four campaign contributions from Tony Rezko.

If I were Pro-Mccain I would use the "association" with Ayers differently. There are many points to use that would have overturned in favor of McCain. But I'm not, so I'm glad that McCain, Palin and their advisors screwed up!!!

About polls

and gore and kerry ahead of President Bush in 2000 and 2004.

Gore was ahead, (i was there) if you counted the total votes without considering the electoral system, the majirity went to Gore

McCain: Doesn't meet the "natural-born citizen" requirement, left his first wife due to her disability, turned his back on POWs and their families.

Obama: Hangs around goons and spends Walter Annenberg's money with statistical innefficiency.

How do either of these two expect to be President when they have realistically done little to nothing. ---These people are the problem and not the solution.

$$$Palin 2008$$$

sailwind,

I think it is quite legitimate to question the source of an article. I'm sure you were among the first to dismiss the National Enquirer's expose of Edwards extramarital affair, for example. However, merely questioning the source is weak without a showing of bias, a showing of ineptitude or a showing of error.

Sez

However, merely questioning the source is weak without a showing of bias, a showing of ineptitude or a showing of error.

I'll give all three.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/10/03/rolling-stone-mccain-spoiled-brat-puts-own-advancement-above-all

Anyway, I think I found what you're talking about - "Make-Believe Maverick," right? Pure trash.

Thanks for reading, Sarge. Here's a quiz of reading comprehension.

Did McCain pull strings to avoid getting booted? Was McCain a good student? Was McCain a good pilot?

I've never questioned McCain's dedication or bravery. I've given him credit for a lot of things. But there's plenty that's damning in the Rolling Stone story, and when the only refutation you and Sailwind can give is that story is trash, then that's the best confirmation to me of the story's merits.

(And Messie's my estranged evil twin sister.)

Once in court I heard a judge say words I can not forget...

Even though he is what he is and we all know thats what he is, we have no evidence to convict him on the charges brought up, that doesnt make him innocent that makes him lucky...

That would be ayers..

But to not add Clinton in the mix of why we are in a financial crisis would be an out right lie too, since he was the president who signed the bill that removed the restrictions, just like it would be a lie to say that Bush was the reason all this happened when we have 535 fine politicians sitting in Washington DC signing bill also.. They all have fault in why we are where we are, just like they all have responsibility to represent us.... You cant say one with out the other, its a team event...

Sezwho if you read the 637pm post I was talking about the weather underground as a whole who did the Brinks robbery..And was showing proof to a person who said that the weather underground never killed..

Nippon5 at 06:34 PM JST - 10th October

Also just for the record the Weather Underground also killed two police men in cold blood... and two of them are in Jail for it.

So like the TV ads its only a sound bite and not what really was said..

First thing friends say when a friend does something and is caught is..

" cant believe he could do it, he was the nicest man"..etc etc.. Its kinda the comman phrase here in Japan and in the States..

I've gone back through all the posts on this thread and your posts the past 2 days and can't find your post with the Rolling Stone link

It was actually someone else's link. You can do a Google search under "McCain...Rolling Stone...hatchet job."

But a fine hatchet it was.

Thanks for reading, Sarge. Here's a quiz of reading comprehension. 1. Did McCain pull strings to avoid getting booted? 2. Was McCain a good student? 3. Was McCain a good pilot?

I can answer that...

no one knows but I doubt he pulled strings, his family might have, but thats no different then getting into college because your a minority or getting a job for same reason. Your using your family background to get what you would not get normally. We cant base everything on speculation, did Obama learn from ayers, Obama and Ayers say no so we have to side with that, McCain says he didnt so we must side with that too. You can imply anything you want that doesnt make it true. Grades do not make a student good student, he graduated so he is better then many people who dont. He wasnt a great student, but neither was the other candidate... To say something because a perso doesnt get the highest in the class is just showing a lack of intelligence, was Einstine a good student?

3.Any pilot who can fly a plane is good, if you talking about his 2 accidents while goofing off yea his judgement was wrong, but his ability isnt in question, was evil kanievel(sp) a good cycle rider, he crashed thousands of time... ..Since most of the pilots in his units said he was a great pilot and always flew on the edge I would have to go with the answer he was a good pilot that was to confident in his ability..

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain

JT comment board does not recognize underscores (_), the first one initiates an italic sequence and the rest are ignored. I put tildes (~) where the underscore should be; just substitute them.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make~believe~maverick~the~real~john~mccain

Headline

Alaska Legislative Probe Finds Palin Misused Power

3.Any pilot who can fly a plane is good, if you talking about his 2 accidents while goofing off yea his judgement was wrong, but his ability isnt in question, was evil kanievel(sp) a good cycle rider, he crashed thousands of time... ..

Any pilot who can land a plane is good. McCain, the Evel Knieval of West Point. Yeah, that's who I want for president.

No one was talking about wjho for president, and when you say that it opens it up to

Obama hangs out with terrorist... yea that who I want for president..

Dont take an Apple and try to make it an Orange..

His flying style really has nothing to do with his ability to lead.

Do we say Arnold is a big man who mad violent films.. he shouldnt be governor?

You show your bias and hate when you make such statements.....

Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan's refusal to fire State Trooper Mike Wooten from the state police force was "likely a contributing factor" to Monegan's July dismissal, but Palin had the authority as governor to fire him, the report by former Anchorage prosecutor Stephen Branchflower states.

She went infront of them because she fired him,, and they found she had the right to fire him, but they have the headline Abuses Power kinda like seeing it from a strange angle?

Rep. John Coghill, a Republican who criticized the handling of the investigation, said it was "well-done professionally."

But he said some of the conclusions were judgment calls by Branchflower, and recommended readers should view them with a "jaundiced eye."

Sail, So...you are basing your entire opinion about the Rolling Stone piece based on another story written about the Rolling Stone piece rather than the story itself.

Whoa-K.

Never mind the fact that the newsbusters story provides no evidence of any mistruths by Rolling Stone.

In other words, it's a hack piece railing against what they believe to be a hack piece. There is ZERO contrary evidence provided.

ZERO.

Sad.

Taka

Sen. Obama has gained .4 in the polls according to RCP.com. Apparently those attack ads aren't really doing candidate mccain much good. Also...gov. palin was found to have abused her power over troopergate.

So...who exactly was it who vetted her and is that person asking, "would you like to super-size that?" yet?

Taka

Nessie, Taka

Tim Dickinson was the former editor of Mother Jones magazine. The same Mother Jones that prides itself on how to grow your indoor pot plants better through indoor planting techniques. If you don't think this guy isn't biased agaisn't McCain I've got some land in Florida to sell both of you real cheap.

Consider the source. I put about as much stock in this guy's reporting about McCain as I would if David Duke wrote an article about Obama.

Mother Jones former editor I rest my case.

Sail, So...never mind the facts, base your judgement on the writer of the story.

Again...Whoa-K.

Here's a question: What did you spend more time fact checking, Tim Dickenson or the story?

But you know...never mind. Whatever. You go with your bad self. It's all good Sail. I'll take the win in Nov. and be happy with that.

Taka

Sailwind,

it's better to tell us how McCain he threw his ex-wife under the bus

That topic hasn't come up or been explored in any appreciable degree by anyone (until you just now) for a long time, and you know that perfectly well.

Not bad for a terrorist no wonder Obama would pal around with him. And THERE someone finally throws it out on the table.

So, Obama's a terrorist, eh? If it only took two days of debating the topic between we arm-chair generals hee at JT to get to this point, how long do you think it'll take for the same to transpire in the real political climate? Win at any cost, eh, Sailwind? ANY cost. Even to the point of just blatantly pulling crap out of your nether regions. Of most conservative posters here, I honestly expected better from you.

coulrophobic

[Ayers] confessed to everything he was accused of and as recently as 2001 expressed regret that he hadn't done more destruction.

If I had a $100 for every time I had to point out a misstatement on your part on this thread alone, I'd be able to take a nice vacation up north this weekend. He didn't express regret that he hadn't destroyed more. He expressed regret that he and his group hadn't done more to oppose the Vietnam War. Two very different things, not that you've shown a particular predisposition for honesty here.

Obama's books reveal his fascination with the upheavals in the 60's and even contain confession of a regret that he was born too late to participate.

When one road to to misdirection closes, you just head down another. I've got to hand it to you. You're persistent.

A splinter group of the Weather Underground killed two policemen near Columbia University when Obama was a student there in the early 1980's.

Wheeee! The guilt-by-association hit parade just keep on coming!

While you're at it, coulrophobic, why don't you express your justified rage at Bush hosting weekend BBQs for the Saudi Royal family. After all, the majority of the 9/11 attackers were Saudi-born. No? No response? Not surprised. You have no substance, son.

LFR

That topic hasn't come up or been explored in any appreciable degree by anyone (until you just now) for a long time, and you know that perfectly well.

8th post on this thread already threw that out there, along with a whole bunch of McCain is a moron etc, classy posts about McCain all up and down this thread.

So, Obama's a terrorist, eh?

Find anywhere and any thread that I ever said Obama was a terrorist? I guess I should have said Ayers is a radical left wing psuedo-marxist from the sixties that now travels in trendy left wing academic circles no wonder Obama would want to pal around with him, because that was the point I was making.

"The guilt-by-association hit parade just keep on coming!"

I'm not accusing of Senator obama of anything other than appallingly bad judgement in the choice of his political associates (Ayers and Dhorn), his mentors and 'spiritual advisers' (Rev Wright) and his financiers (Tony Rezko, currently under federal indictment).

Given the candidates's complete lack of accomplishment and executive experience voters don't have much else to go by.

Citing the fact that he has the most liberal voting record in the Senate merely elicits 'but he stands for hope and change!' from his supporters.

If you want to refute me and change my mind just provide me with the list of accomplishments that you believe qualify Barack Obama for office of US president, commonly referred to as the most powerful man in the world.

"After all, the majority of the 9/11 attackers were Saudi-born."

It always puzzles me how this one is so often pulled out as if it were a trump card of some sort that will vindicate the party excoriating the Bush administration for having the same allies Clinton's did. On top of that it is supposed to end the discussion?

Al Qaeda has a long-standing opposition to the Saudi rulers.

An adolescent could work out the drama bin Laden staged.

That should read

Given the candidate's complete lack of accomplishment and executive experience voters don't have much else to go by.

no wonder Obama would want to pal around with him

In all the time you have posted at JT Sail, have you ever posted anything condemning bush family's association with the house of Saud or w's inviting members of the taliban to Texas or is this just more faux outrage from "the right?"

Oh self fearing one,

An adolescent could work out the drama bin Laden staged.

And you fell for it, hook-line-and sinker.

See: Iraq invasion cost and U.S. debt to China.

And, as for what else voter's can go by, there's always that National Enquirer front page you have chosen to ignore and the recent discovery that palin abused her authority in trooper-gate. Voters could go by that, if they so choose. ;-)

Taka

oh yeah, and...See: military readiness - U.S.

Taka

Taka313 - See: financial meltdown causes Democrats Obama

sarge, I would absolutely delve into the realm of giddy if you could explain to me how Sen. Obama has caused the financial meltdown in the U.S..

Please enlighten me and the electorate, in general, as to how he, or the Democrats, in just 2 years of control of Congress, have made this financial crisis happen?

I await with great anticipation.

Taka

Taka313 - Why, I thought you were already into the realm of giddy with Obama being several points ahead in the polls.

I repeat - See: financial meltdown causes Democrats Obama. You'll be surprised at what you find! Here's something to get started:

www.renewamerica.us/columns/zieve/080920

sarge,

The only substantial reference made to Sen. Obama in the story is regarding campaign contributions.

Not that I expected any better but your argument has nothing to do with what I asked.

But...thank you for the laugh anyway.

Taka

Taka313 - Apparently you skipped the part where the Democrats are mainly to blame for this debacle. Why don't you re-read it, and then continue to check out some other sources? Remember: financial / meltdown / causes / Democrats

Obama supports the Democrat policies which led to this debacle.

sarge: Sorry, bud... but it was bush and his work for the last 8 years that led things to their end result. Even if the wheels were moulded by Democrats in the past, bush put them onto a train to steam-drive the US to where it's at now. They had all the chances in the world to apply the breaks and change the tracks, but they wanted to gamble and get away with it. Well, now you see where they got you.

smith - Sorry, but it was the Democrats and their misguided policies which led to this debacle. Republicans tried to reform the system, but were blocked by the Democrats. Heck, even Bill Clinton admits that. Check it out.

How could it have been possible for the Democrats to block anything while the Republicans were in control of the White House and both houses of Congress?

sailwind,

Thanks for the link.

I read the piece but don't see how it qualifies to substantiate the charge of bias. The writer is himself clearly biased and you can easily see that if you "view recent blog entries".

Neither do I see how this piece shows ineptitude. The writer criticizes Dickinson for his acerbity and vitriole and I would agree with that criticism. However, acerbity and vitriole, while raising alarm bells with respect to whether someone is tampering with truth, are not in themselves proof of tampering.

And as far as error is concerned, I cannot recall that writer has refuted even one factual claim that Dickinson made. He has pitted the tone of Dickinson's article against the tone of a former RS article, but this says nothing about facts.

Nippon5,

I read the history this way:

At 6:34 you talk about the Weather Underground as a whole. At 6:57 you talk about Ayers going underground and you claim that he is scary and ask if we want our buildings blown up by a group of radicals. At 7:03 you cite the Brinks job as the lethal job "they" did.

I hope you can see how this all tends to get conflated and why it is important to keep this clear.

In any event, Ayers and Dohrn were not responsible for the Brinks robbery. More importantly Ayers' and Dohrn's group was not responsible for the Brinks robbery. The party responsible was Ayers' and Dohrn's former group and that is what makes all the difference.

Foreign media are more interested in the truth about Obama's ties to unrepentant terrorists than is the American.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24485226-7583,00.html

The determination with wich the US media are ignoring Obamas terrorist ties is a sight to behold. It scary to think of the coming Obama government, with all houses of government in the hands of one party, an extreme leftist at the top, and a sycophantic press that can´t stop swooning. Kim Yong Il would approve.

Unless the Republicans can engineer a terrorist atrocity on the US mainland in the next few weeks, McCain is headed for the retirement home and a comfy rocking chair on the stoop.

Sounds like the same "Hah! We gotcha beat..." that we kept hearing in 2000 and 2004. How'd that work out for ya?

Democrats: Still looking at polls and not learning the difference between "likely" voters and ACTUAL VOTERS. Likely voters led you to claim a 14 point victory 4 days before the election in 2004. ACTUAL voters let you down. When will you learn?

The determination with wich the US media are ignoring Obamas terrorist ties is a sight to behold. It scary to think of the coming Obama government, with all houses of government in the hands of one party, an extreme leftist at the top, and a sycophantic press that can´t stop swooning. Kim Yong Il would approve.

A sycophantic press that includes Rush Limbaugh, William Kristol, Bill O'Reilly, Jonah Goldberg, Cal Thomas, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, FOX News, The Chicago Tribune, The Washington Times and The Washington Post (I hear it doesn't have such a liberal reputation these days)? Why don't you take a look at a few newspapers instead of just whining about how biased they are? There are plenty of writers and editors out there ready to criticize Obama. Or is it just easier to deny reality and blame someone else for Republican screw-ups?

"The determination with wich the US media are ignoring Obamas terrorist ties is a sight to behold." Yeah because Obama has not terrorist ties. If he had there would have bee a big hanging investigation and indictments by now. That's what Bush and Company would have done. But they can't. Bill Ayres is not a terrorist. He was never charged with being a terrorist though he was with Weatherman in the 60s. You can be sure in this day and age that he would have been at least investigated if there was any hint he was a terrorist.

No investigations, no charges--and its not that the Bush administration is sweamish. Therefore, no one is a terrorist and "paling" with terrorists.

It's all fiction that has been made up by the McCain losers and put into Sarah Palin's mouth.

That's the reality. If it were otherwise it make great copy. As it stands it belongs with "Cow glows in Florida" / "Elvis's spirit sighted by astronauts."

My typos are a terror this time. Pressed wrong button.

WilliB,

The press is ignoring the ties because there aren't any.