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Merkel stands by her 2015 decision to open German borders

35 Comments
By FRANK JORDANS

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35 Comments
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Go to any major German city, you'd be hard pressed to tell you're in Europe, you'd think you're in Istanbul or Morocco.

And the Muslim immigrants are retaining their culture and heritage, so their bear far more children per household than non-immigrants.

In a few generations, Germany will be Muslim majority, that's a statistical fact.

3 ( +12 / -9 )

Regardless of how you feel about refugees, Merkel is an odious despot. Maybe a benevolent despot, but a despot nonetheless. She unilaterally ignored the law without any democratic mandate just like every other dictator in the third world, all because it would help her sleep better at night (or perhaps to get the nobel peace prize, which I hope will never come).

Now that we've see the disastrous results of Merkels incompetence, Germany has done a complete 180. They've shut their borders, they are rounding people up, deporting them, and rejecting asylum applications left and right. Again, all to help Angela Merkel sleep better at night knowing that she won't lose this election and probably won't go down in history as Germany's worst postwar chancellor. She is an odious despot that people who believe in democracy should find reprehensible, even if they support refugees.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

M3M3 M3, I totally agree. Odious is the word for her.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

IIRC Istanbul has an European and Euasian side, depends on which side of the Bosphorus river you are on.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It is not the opinion of the the former communist soldier that is relevant, rather the article should address the opinions of the Germans that have been murdered,raped,abused and assaulted by the steady stream of uneducated and ill behaved immigrants that Frau Merkel allowed to enter and disrupt German society.. And I forgot to mention the cases of arson that have been committed too.....!

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Germans have an intense feeling of guilt over the Nazi era and are forever attempting to atone for it. To them, allowing in millions of people from a different culture and utterly transforming the nature of their society seems to be the best way to assuage their guilt. Most Western nations these days appear overwhelmed with the guilt of what previous generations have done. That is their decision and they will have to live with the results. They could of course commit to maintaining a stable society, seek peaceful relations with other countries all while protecting the interests of their own citizens.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

@Wolfpack

The war ended in 1945!

The Germans are hardly guilt ridden in 2017!

The decision to allow in a million muslims from the third world was NOT a democratic decision made by the German people

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Good for her. One of Europe's more compassionate leaders in regards to the human tragedy in the Medittereanean. Far more trustworthy in this crisis than her spineless counterparts abroad.

Germans have an intense feeling of guilt over the Nazi era and are forever attempting to atone for it.

Fake news. But still peddled in certain quarters.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

I don't think that it is compassionate that native Germans be expelled from their own properties to allow immigrants to live in them!

This has been the case in Germany-how do you think German citizens feel about that?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Odious is the word for her.

Really?

Over-compassionate, naïve, idealistic, ill-informed or even out of touch rather than 'odious' perhaps? Letting in 2M refugees was never going to be a popular decision, at home or abroad.

Well-intentioned yet naïve/over-optimistic ppl aren't 'odious'.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

22% are immigrants. before arriving, they should be held in centres. health tested and given lessons in culture language etc. after graduation, they should be given intensive work training. after completion, they can work and live in harmony with any country they want.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@Toasted Heretic, @goldorak

Letting in 2M refugees was never going to be a popular decision, at home or abroad.

Do you believe in democracy and the rule of law? If the people elect a representative to act on their behalf and there is absolutely no overwhelming democratic mandate to open the borders to millions of migrants (and laws/international agreements that explicitly don't allow for this to happen), should democracy take a backseat to dictatorship as long as the dictator is compassionate? It's that a slippery slope?

If yes, how far would you extend this principle? If your accountant were to donate your retirement savings to refugee charities without ever asking you, should he not be arrested and held to account because he acted in the name of 'compassion'?

Merkel is supposed to represent the German people, not herself. She has been destabalising Europe with her incompetence for years. Look at the economic situation in Greece, look at the terror attacks by perpetrators who travelled the open migrant routes to Germany, look at the situation in Visegrad countries like Poland where they reluctantly voted for a rightwing authoritarian government because they are terrified at the prospect of having more refugee quotas impossed on them now that Germany has started saying other countries have to share the burden of Merkel's stupidity.

@Goodlucktoyou

they should be held in centres. health tested and given lessons in culture language etc. after graduation, they should be given intensive work training. after completion, they can work and live in harmony with any country they want.

And if you feel so strongly about this, go ahead and pay for it. Nothing is stopping you. But please don't forcefully reach into the pockets of the majority of your fellow citizens who completely disagree with funding your utopia.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

The problem is, these people don't just want a refuge, they want, status, benefits, family reunification, living quarters, and civil rights given to citizens. They are not there to just wait out the danger, or because they are persecuted. They are there for economic reasons.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

There will come a time when a breaking point is reached and one wonders which country will be the first to see that happen - the UK ? Clearly it's heading the way "Burning Bush" suggests, Greece and Italy are already swamped, Germany too. Along with the migrants comes their Violence and poor respect for Women, etc. Its all going to blow up (figuratively speaking) at some point.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

SO, Besides the humanitarian point of view, it seems that the local populations of forced immigration are being told that it is necessary to maintain their economies, such as in Common Wealth countries. That appears to be against logic since at the same time, we are also being told that a giant percent of the work force will be replaced by robots.

I guess the big question is, why is the birth rate declining and why is it necessary to import foreigners to replace the local population?

1) I'm pretty sure there is a huge relation between the spread of entertainment and a drop in birth rates. 100 years ago, even if you were lucky enough to be able to read or have a radio, you may be much more inclined to spend some "quality time" with your spouse instead of zombing out on the TV or internet. Look at huge birth rate countries today and their level of entertainment.

2) Replacing a local population with a foreign, seems like a strategic weapon at reshaping freedoms in order to advance more control mechanisms over the governed.

....help me out here if you see another angle as to why Merkel is hell bent on committing cultural suicide...

4 ( +5 / -1 )

@M3, Do you believe in democracy and the rule of law?, yes I do, to some extent. Making unpopular decisions is also part of democracy though and I don't think we should have referendums on all matters otherwise all/most countries would be mono-cultural democracies, with death penalty, too much of this and not enough of that.

Again, I think Merkel's decision to allow 'that' many migrants was ill-timed and wrong, but what was the alternative? Where would those refugees be if they weren't in Germany and in other parts of Europe? Back home going to work/school, watching footy and living a happy/quiet life? No they wouldn't and we all know that.

Only issue I have is with the term 'odious'. Global inequality is imo the main issue here and most world leaders have failed to address it for decades. These guys are/were the 'odious' ones.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Germans have an intense feeling of guilt over the Nazi era and are forever attempting to atone for it.

Fake news. But still peddled in certain quarters.

I don't agree. Guilt about the Nazi era, and the Holocaust in particular, is felt by Germans. Our own UK feels a sense of this for not doing more to help Jews at that dark time.

I remember a great description of the roles of France and Germany in the postwar European project - while both are seeking prosperity, France is seeking renaissance, Germany is seeking redemption.

My own take is Merkel has played fast and loose with the security of Germany. I can't accept an argument that her policies haven't compromised a key duty of the government - to safeguard security. Is anyone sincerely arguing this isn't the case?

2 ( +4 / -2 )

I'm flabbergasted by some of the posts here. In which far-right information bubble are you caught? Let me, being a German living in the second largest city, tell you about reality.

Hamburg being a major port in Europe has always been multicultural, and it is now on the same level as London was in the 90s. Nothing wrong with that, and the refugees did not change anything. I experienced our new citizens as helpful and willing to integrate into society. Who carried my friend's luggage up the stairs when she came to visit me? A young Sudanese. Who offered me his seat in the bus? A young Syrian. Which neighbour kept giving us home-made sweets and BBQ invitations? Right, an Iraqi. The vast majority of the refugees are glad to have made it here alive and they act accordingly. Should we leave them to drown just because 1% of them might be bad apples?

Germany has dealt with many more refugees right after WW2 when firebombed cities lay in ruins and there were no places to house the hundreds of thousands who fled from East Prussia and Pomerania. That's why Germans in general welcomes refugees.

I do not worry about IS terrorists among refugees - those will have fake passports and arrive by plane anyway. I do not worry about refugees in general - there are courses to teach them the language and European values. But I do worry about neonazis and those ultra-right who are ultra-wrong living in their own comfy info bubble spreading their poison to the moderate media.

I never voted for Merkel but I respect her for having a heart rather than that lump of ice some of you keep in your chests. Shame on you - imagine you were left with the choice of death, disease, hunger and no future for you and your children in your home country or trying to escape all that! Would you not try to venture into the unknown? Have a little respect please. Nobody makes such a decision light-heartedly.

And for the "info" of Germans being evicted to make space for refugees, that has been debunked as fake news a year ago. As are the "infos" of burning of churches, kidnappings, multiple rapes and whatnot. Some of you guys are living in a nazi fiction and that's what worries me, not the refugees.

What happened to humanity? Have agitprop media like Breitbart gobbled it up and spat it out as fake news?

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Mass immigration into a country will have the effect of changing the cultural and social norms of the population. The German identity and social customs will be irrevocably changed in a generation or two.

This will mean that governmental control will be much easier to implement since a 'new' group of people will be much more malleable.

Merkel's roots are socialist and her immigration experiment is part of her socialist belief of change.

This is what the theory of Dialetics promises

Anyone wishing to understand the why and what only has to look at Merkel's background to understand what is happening......

.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Merkel is conservative, she's never been "socialist" - and me, the socialist, would never have thought having to defend her!

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Not to worry. Merkel insisted recently the refugees are only temporarily in Germany must return home once the war in Syria ends and ISIS is defeated. (She has also called multiculturalism a "sham.")

So let's sit and watch the massive outflux, which could be happening quite soon now. Unless, of course, Merkel is a liar.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-refugees-idUSKCN0V80IH

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/12/14/angela-merkel-multiculturalism-is-a-sham/?utm_term=.df3b547704ee

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Merkel is conservative, she's never been "socialist" - and me, the socialist, would never have thought having to defend her!

You have to get used to the use of the word 'socialist' by some on this site.

It is an elastic term used to describe political ideas they don't like.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@Jim - you think it would be fair to call everybody a neonazi right of me then? trying out elasticism

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@goldorak

Making unpopular decisions is also part of democracy though and I don't think we should have referendums on all matters otherwise all/most countries would be mono-cultural democracies

I think making wildly unpopular decisions is the exact opposite of democracy in most cases. The only time this might occur is where we have enshrined something into law which has become unpopular before the law is democratically changed. We don't elect a dictator every 4 or 5 years. For me this is not about culture, race, or religion. It's a matter of principle. If Merkel had allowed in millions of blonde Swedish supermodels against the will of the German people (and contrary to the laws of the land) I would denounce her just as vigorously. If you don't condemn Merkel for acting like an odious dictator, just imagine if the rightwing AfD where to win the election and unilaterally decide to round up all the migrants at gunpoint for immediate deportation contrary to the law and the wishes of German people. What would you say to that? I'm imagine you'd start trumpeting democracy and the law pretty quickly. You definetly wouldn't say, 'oh well, the leader can do what they want even if most people disagree'.

Again, I think Merkel's decision to allow 'that' many migrants was ill-timed and wrong, but what was the alternative?

The alternative was to not suspend the Dublin convention where Germany promised its EU neighbours that asylum seekers would be made to file their claim in the first EU country they set foot in. Yes, there were large numbers making their way into Europe through the Balkan route prior to Merkel's invitation, but when you look at the numbers carefully they only exploded once Merkel issued her invitation. Most of these migrants were already in safe countries like Turkey and there was no reason they couldn't have made their asylum applications in Greece or one of the other safe EU countries they entered or passed through. Yes, resources are limited in Greece, but that could have been dealt with on an EU-wide level, not by sudden unilateral German action. Encouraging asylum shopping just undermines the entire refugee convention and severely disadvantages those who are either not young enough, not healthy enough, or not wealthy enough to leave the UNHCR camps close to conflict zones and pay people smugglers to get to Germany. It was sheer lunacy for Merkel to issue this sort of Hunger Games challenge where anyone who was able to tear down enough border fences to reach Germany could stay. Completely indefensible.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@ RonriiUrufu

"Merkel is conservative, she's never been "socialist" - and me, the socialist, would never have thought having to defend her!"

Sorry, wrong on that count!

Even a cursory look at Merkel's past would show that she was brought up in the GDR and she was an active member of the FDJ, under the Socialist Union Party!

She even had meetings with the Stasi in which she was asked to spy for them!

How much more socialist does she have to get to be a socialist and the idea that she was never a socialist is a load of ****

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

As for the "compassionate" bit, leave it out. Talk to the murdered europeans.

Shes fishing for the nobel prize and will probably get it. No matter. The nobel stuff isnt what it used to be.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

M3, well said. I Completely agee.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

RonriiUrufu - thanks for the viewpoint you shared.

Invited immigrants are completely different to uninvited immigrants.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

lots of blood on Angela's hands.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

The problem is, these people don't just want a refuge, they want, status, benefits, family reunification, living quarters, and civil rights given to citizens. They are not there to just wait out the danger, or because they are persecuted. They are there for economic reasons.

But enough about the East Germans...

Thousands of migrants dying at sea. And she was the one leader who stepped up, in this world of hate.

Kudos.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

she attracted them there in the first place. remember all the migrants who didnt want to stop in other european countries - 'only germany'. was where they wanted to go. I wonder why?

If she hadnt opened the flood gates ME countries would have had to act. As it was SaudI Arabia sat back and laughed. And citizens of europe were butchered.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

I don't think that it is compassionate that native Germans be expelled from their own properties to allow immigrants to live in them!

Yeah, good try but false.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

lots of blood on Angela's hands.

Lots of blood on Europe's hands as they watched families drown and their bodies watch up on the beaches of southern Europe.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Riiight. You love to beat up on the west. No blame to the saudis who didnt ket in a single one. To their credit, saudi intelligence services did try to warn europe about what they were letting their citizens in for.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

You have to get used to the use of the word 'socialist' by some on this site.

It is an elastic term used to describe political ideas they don't like.

> Do you apply the same logic to terms like altright? White nationalist? Nazi?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

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