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Mexicans begin to unite in fight against Trump's plans

34 Comments
By MARK STEVENSON

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Good luck, it goes both ways. They'll lose in the end. It's not the fault of the people. The Mexican government bares the entire responsibility for the past and current and ongoing disparity in that country. If the government of Mexico doesn't approve how we do things in the US, they can pound sand OR they can take the initiative to change their laws and social economic status and how to uplift their people, provide better jobs, living conditions, better opportunities and build a better social net instead of shrugging their shoulders and telling people if they have hardships, go North.

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

I suspect their president is going to see a leap in popularity for his response to Trump. And I also suspect that this is going to hurt American businesses that do business in Mexico - the Mexicans are a proud people, and having the US president say they are going to build a wall that Mexico didn't ask for, and make Mexico pay for it, is only going to stir up national pride. It's one thing to decide to build the wall. But then to make Mexico pay for it? It's about as ridiculous as it gets.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

OR they can take the initiative to change their laws and social economic status and how to uplift their people, provide better jobs, living conditions, better opportunities and build a better social net instead of shrugging their shoulders and telling people if they have hardships, go North.

Ahhh! So THAT'S the secret! Just change things. Just make them better. If only we had YOU in the brain trust that attempted to rebuild Iraq. My god, it's just so SIMPLE!

(end sarcasm...)

OR Mexico could do precisely what it's suggesting by refusing to play along with the whinging irrational paranoia and ignorance of "red-blooded" 'Muricans whose immediate go-to when they can't face up to their own inadequacies and failures in life is to lay blame on darker-skinned immigrants. In yet another example of the hypocrisy that riddles conservative thought in America like a cancer is this sudden inability to pull themselves up by the very same bootstraps they insisted poor Americans do since the 80s.

Trump is effectively threatening the livelihood of all Mexicans with a trade war that no one can win. Mexico can and absolutely SHOULD push back at Trump's shakedown tactics and stop interdiction activities at the border, stop El Salvadoran gang members from using Mexico as a transit route for their activities, and make no effort whatsoever to serve as the physical buffer it has been for America for the better part of a century from much of the political chaos that is Central America, chaos created largely by the United States, BTW.

Trump praises America's enemies and makes war on its friends -- yet another example of how utterly unfit be is to lead this country. He's only a few short press conferences and tweets from treason. It's only a matter of time.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

the Mexicans are a proud people,

NOT only the Mexicans.

and having the US president say they are going to build a wall that Mexico didn't ask for, and make Mexico pay for it, is only going to stir up national pride.

As well as it has in the US and growing, especially along the border States.

It's one thing to decide to build the wall. But then to make Mexico pay for it? It's about as ridiculous as it gets.

Not ridiculous at all. Mexico is definitely at a disadvantage here and in the long run, they don't want a trade war, either they will do a backdoor arrangement on how they will pay for it or Trump and the Feds will take it and one of the biggest and best ways in doing that is through the aid we give Mexico, we give $ over 420 billion in aid through DHS and we can easily take the money owed from that, since it's aid from the US, the Mexican government has NO WAY of stopping it, and there are other ways, either way, they will pay, it just depends on how and Trump needs to see which way would be the best for the US.

Ahhh! So THAT'S the secret! Just change things. Just make them better. If only we had YOU in the brain trust that attempted to rebuild Iraq. My god, it's just so SIMPLE!

Mexico is not Iraq and yes, it's not that difficult.

OR Mexico could do precisely what it's suggesting by refusing to play along with the whinging irrational paranoia and ignorance of "red-blooded" 'Muricans whose immediate go-to when they can't face up to their own inadequacies and failures in life is to lay blame on darker-skinned immigrants. In yet another example of the hypocrisy that riddles conservative thought in America like a cancer is this sudden inability to pull themselves up by the very same bootstraps they insisted poor Americans do since the 80s.

They don't have to play along, Trump is president, Mexico is on notice, the Dems don't call the shots, Obama is gone and they can either play ball or not, either way, the days of the revolving door is over.

Trump is effectively threatening the livelihood of all Mexicans with a trade war that no one can win.

And the Mexican government with its uncaring free for all policies have taken for far too long advantage of America and Americans. The Mexican government is responsible for this outcome, not the US, not even the Mexican people actually, the Mexican government is the most corrupt enterprise and Trump has just put them all on notice and they can posture, grandstand all they want, but having been to Mexico over 18 times, I can tell you, Mexico will cave in, if not now, eventually, they really at this point have no choice. The clock is ticking.

Mexico can and absolutely SHOULD push back at Trump's shakedown tactics and stop interdiction activities at the border, stop El Salvadoran gang members from using Mexico as a transit route for their activities, and make no effort whatsoever to serve as the physical buffer it has been for America for the better part of a century from much of the political chaos that is Central America, chaos created largely by the United States, BTW.

They can do that, but it will be to no avail. But still will be fun to watch, I'll admit that.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Trump is going to force Mexico to seek new friends. This could end up with Mexico ceasing to cooperate with the US and Chinese bases to protect them against America.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Good luck, it goes both ways. They'll lose in the end. and how will they lose if they refuse cooperation withthe US on the fight against the drug cartels. illegal drugs in the US does far more damage to US society than Mexican illegal immigrants ever will. Looks like America will lose just as much with any trade war with Mexico

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Trump is going to force Mexico to seek new friends.

Who and how? That would be a very daunting undertaking that would take years and years to develop and foster.

This could end up with Mexico ceasing to cooperate with the US and Chinese bases to protect them against America.

What??? Oh...lol

Good luck, it goes both ways. They'll lose in the end. and how will they lose if they refuse cooperation withthe US on the fight against the drug cartels.

Mexico would never do that, they hate the Cartels and they are more destructive to Mexico overall than the US, try again.

illegal drugs in the US does far more damage to US society than Mexican illegal immigrants ever will. Looks like America will lose just as much with any trade war with Mexico

You are right as far as the damage legal drugs cause on the US economy overall, but in Mexico, the Cartels are THE problem and Mexico will go to any end to eradicate them or to do whatever to set these guys back and help the citizens that suffer under the oppression of the Cartels, sorry, but Mexico has Zero leverage on this. We have to deal with the drugs, but they have to live and deal with the Cartels.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I just do not see the President of Mexico giving into Trump. It would be political suicide for him and his party. The Mexican people will not stand by and do nothing as Trump punishes Mexico.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

“Okay, I’m not going to stop Central Americans anymore,”

Breaking News! Mexico has been stopping Central Americans from traveling to the US.

“If you want to stop them with your wall, well we won’t stop them anymore, let them go through.”

More Breaking News! Mexico has been stopping drugs from getting through to the US.

Yeah, right! Those are the best threats they can come up with? When you see news reports of illegal immigrants openly riding atop freight trains from southern to northern Mexico, and drug cartels operating openly in Mexico, it's obvious these are very empty threats.

Also, if the President of Mexico wanted to boost his ratings, he should have met with President Trump and publicly stated, for the world to hear, that Mexico wasn't going to pay for the wall. Instead, it appears, he rather have Fox, Slim and Calderon speak for him. #MUCHO_LAME

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Well it's simple to get around. Start building huge ladders that people can by on the streets.

That there will mean the wall does nothing "if" they start making big ladders for sale.

Once it goes into production, people can cross again.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

So the plan is to beat Mexico into submission to pay for an ineffective wall?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

This one is the wrong emotional target for Mexico to loose. Mexicans should unite to raise national educational standard ( average below middle school level), stop compromising with drug cartels, and corrupted politicians. Mexico has natural resources and potential to prosper by upgrading with new mentality to cope with fast pace of science and technology.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Mexico’s government denounced Trump’s new border security measures aimed at interfering with the cash flow of the very Mexican cartels believed to have financed the current Mexican president’s campaign.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

So the plan is to beat Mexico into submission to pay for an ineffective wall?

In a nutshell.

Well it's simple to get around. Start building huge ladders that people can by on the streets.

Get more border patrol agents, more dogs, more night vision goggles, surveillance equipment.

That there will mean the wall does nothing "if" they start making big ladders for sale.

With more dogs, surveillance equipment, agents and night vision goggles, good luck.

Once it goes into production, people can cross again.

It'll be more difficult and time consuming, impose tougher penalties for border crossers.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Get more border patrol agents, more dogs, more night vision goggles, surveillance equipment.

And get Mexico to pay for that too? Perhaps they could also supply the labor.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Americans are paying for the wall. That's how tariffs work with the receiver paying the tax. Mexico will suffer financial loss from reduced sales, but that loss doesn't generate cash for the US government. We pay more and both of our economies will be damaged. Not the mention the political fallout from the retaliation back and forth in addition to the bad blood created on both sides.

Should be a nice little war with our neighbor with losses on both sides.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Americans are paying for the wall.

And then Mexico will reimburse us.

That's how tariffs work with the receiver paying the tax. Mexico will suffer financial loss from reduced sales, but that loss doesn't generate cash for the US government.

The best way to get the money back would be from the aid we send Mexico through DHS. Take the cost from that in the form of earmarks and problem solved. There are numerous ways to get that money back and that's up Trump's ally.

We pay more and both of our economies will be damaged. Not the mention the political fallout from the retaliation back and forth in addition to the bad blood created on both sides.

Mexico has for far too long benefited from this one-sided business relationship, they are up in the trillions when it comes to products and produce they send to us that we pay for, we pay them millions to keep their criminals and the Cartels on their side (which they don't) they don't care for their poor, they encourage their poor to go to the US, push them to find work and make it easy for them to send money back to Mexico which amounts to billions and now Mexico's pride is hurt because we have a president that says, "that's all going to stop, now!" Now they are angry because their pride is broken and can't understand Trump, they feel their dignity has been crushed? Well, too bad. If the Mexican government really cared about their people, they would really change their social welfare system, weed out all the corruption, purge it and start from anew.... They send over $420 billion back to Mexico each year to their native country. For far too long has Mexico enjoyed a great ride and reaped at the expense of Americans and the Mexican government has made billions as well. All of a sudden, because Trump says stop, he's a racist and Mexico has the right to feel insulted?? Something is very deeply disturbing, not to mention mentally deranged about that.

Should be a nice little war with our neighbor with losses on both sides.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

No matter what -it seems Mexico is paying for Trumps gold-leaf wall. The real question is how many times Mexico is willing to pay for it.

-Politically Mexico has grand standed saying Trump will not win and they are not paying for Trump's wall. Big mistake since Trump won and they are building the wall.

As a positive hopefully Trump's wall will stop the FBI's gun running operations into Mexico (Project: "Fast and Furious")

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I still don't get it. Americans will fund the wall by paying for tariffs on Mexican products, then American consumers will get some kind of refund from a pool of money DHS gives Mexico? Will people submit their receipts to the government or something?

And by DHS do you mean Department of Homeland Security? Wouldn't funds they spend ultimately be used to protect Americans, even if it's in the form of aid to a foreign country? So we will have less protection and higher prices, and add to that Mexico's retaliatory measures? And will will expect Mexico to keep funding their own programs that stop drug running into the US?

Yes, I understand the vilification of the brown skinned Mexican people is part and parcel to the GOP position. Republicans are 90% white which helps to talk trash about minorities who are not in the party and whom the GOP has very little interaction with.

But ultimately I'm not seeing a workable plan, at least not one that will accomplish the goal of fewer illegal immigrants, especially if the US and Mexico stop cooperating with each other. Seems we are making bad decisions due to short sighted emotional reactions.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

they are up in the trillions when it comes to products and produce they send to us that we pay for

Not that much it seems. About $60 billion per year in recent years in Mexico's favor on a total trade value between the two countries of about $500 billion.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Oh my...

Former border patrol agent reacts to wall executive order:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wveJ5GJ3o_o

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I still don't get it. Americans will fund the wall by paying for tariffs on Mexican products, then American consumers will get some kind of refund from a pool of money DHS gives Mexico? Will people submit their receipts to the government or something?

They don't have to, there are so many ways the money can be given back in the form of tax credits and other incentives back to the people.

And by DHS do you mean Department of Homeland Security?

Yes.

Wouldn't funds they spend ultimately be used to protect Americans,

A large sum of it goes to Mexico every year, that's the portion I'm talking about.

even if it's in the form of aid to a foreign country? So we will have less protection and higher prices, and add to that Mexico's retaliatory measures?

No

And will will expect Mexico to keep funding their own programs that stop drug running into the US?

We already give Mexico $12 billion a year and so far, it's not working, so either the Mexican government is inept, unwilling, doesn't care or all of the above.

Yes, I understand the vilification of the brown skinned Mexican people is part and parcel to the GOP position.

Here we go again with the liberal race card talking point, excuse. Interesting, if you keep the status quo and allow illegals to break the law, you are a good and decent compassionate American, if you want to have secure borders, you are a racist. You know for the life of me, how liberals can tolerate themselves is above me.

Republicans are 90% white which helps to talk trash about minorities who are not in the party and whom the GOP has very little interaction with.

What about the 73% of US Hispanic Americans that want more secured borders and what about the majority of African Americans 59% that are hurt every year by illegal immigration, sorry, but the race card is just not working, please try again.

But ultimately I'm not seeing a workable plan,

Liberals wouldn't and I wouldn't be surprised about it, not one bit.

at least not one that will accomplish the goal of fewer illegal immigrants, especially if the US and Mexico stop cooperating with each other. Seems we are making bad decisions due to short sighted emotional reactions.

That's what liberals want everyone to believe, but again, a wall, increased border patrol, having the most sophisticated surveillance equipment, more dogs will slow it down, make it more difficult, more time consuming and will give caution, as opposed to the open revolving door we have now and thank God liberals are not at all in control this time to stop any of this, so good on Trump and the left just has to deal with it, it's not about emotional, it's about the right to have a sovereign nation. Mexico has a strict immigration policy and is a sovereign nation and why shouldn't we? Liberals need to chill, sit back and take it all in.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Good LUCK.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

We already give Mexico $12 billion a year and so far

@bass, do you have a source for that figure? I see various numbers floating around, but the majority of places I look suggest a figure of about $300 million.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Everyone supports secure borders. I'm just having trouble understanding your specific proposals in accomplishing that.

So to get the money back that I overpaid for produce here in Arizona from Mexico, I file for a tax credit? Wouldnt that decrease revenues for the government that would need to be replaced? I guess I'm having trouble understanding at what point cash comes from Mexico and ends up in the wall fund. So far everything I've seen has Americans paying for the wall.

And I certainly don't support stripping away funds the DHS uses in cooperation with Mexico to secure the border. Isn't there a different fund you can raid? It seems counterproductive to target the funds that help protect the border as part of a policy to protect the border.

It also sounds like you've agreed that the wall alone won't do much, and now you are talking about more agents (thousands?) and massive amounts of equipment (billions of $?). Just how expensive is my produce going to be?

Any clarification would be appreciated. And please don't think I support open borders just because I question the effectiveness of your plan. It's logical to vet policy ideas to decide if we should support them or not.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Everyone supports secure borders. I'm just having trouble understanding your specific proposals in accomplishing that.

Reallly? Coming from you, I could never sworn you're an open border guy.

So to get the money back that I overpaid for produce here in Arizona from Mexico, I file for a tax credit? Wouldnt that decrease revenues for the government that would need to be replaced? I guess I'm having trouble understanding at what point cash comes from Mexico and ends up in the wall fund. So far everything I've seen has Americans paying for the wall.

I've already explained it and how Mexico would repay it, but don't worry about it, Trump has a few people on his team earning 6 figures to properly figure this out.

And I certainly don't support stripping away funds the DHS uses in cooperation with Mexico to secure the border.

You don't have to. I was giving an example as one of the MANY options on how Mexico would reimburse us for the Wall.

Isn't there a different fund you can raid? It seems counterproductive to target the funds that help protect the border as part of a policy to protect the border.

Not sure what the Trump team wants, I guess it just all depends on how much of a headache Mexico wants to be.

It also sounds like you've agreed that the wall alone won't do much,

Not at all, but nice try. I'm a very cautious person and I don't like taking chances, so I'm thinking Trump might feel the same, why take A chance, when in doubt, take some more preliminary precautions, better to always be safe and NOT sorry. Why? Because you just never know!

and now you are talking about more agents (thousands?) and massive amounts of equipment (billions of $?). Just how expensive is my produce going to be?

Whatever it takes to completely secure the border! Now if you are a border resident like I am, the last thing you really worry about is cost.

Any clarification would be appreciated.

I did, and any further clarification, please submit a letter to Trump and congress for their ideas and suggestions on obtaining the money from Mexico which they will make a top priority.

And please don't think I support open borders just because I question the effectiveness of your plan.

It's not MY plan, I'm thinking the most likely possible way Trump will get that money back. As I said, Mexico for years has enjoyed a very rich and fulfilling lifestyle off the back of US citizens, the gravy train they were riding has finally ended and now because they are screaming and crying and having a hissy fit, Trump is going to change his mind and not get that money? Trump didn't become a household name and billionaire because he's an Obama pushover.

It's logical to vet policy ideas to decide if we should support them or not.

I sure think so, that's why I'm happy Trump started to push back on Mexico and good on him for it.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Ah, well that's a relief. When you talked about cutting DHS border protection funding as a solution I didn't realize it was just you throwing something out there that you hadn't thought through. I was worried the six figure guys were promoting that.

For the cost issues, it's good to know that there are policies where you don't mind open ended costs. You had presented yourself as a fiscal hawk in the past but it looks like you've evolved somewhat. It's probably better to say that you are issue driven and not necessarily a fiscal conservative. Unlimited spending in some areas, restricted spending in others.

That being said, I still think we should feel obligated to put these unlimited resources to work in the most efficient way possible. That's something I know we can agree on.

And be careful about promoting emotional things like "free rides.". Remember the goal is to protect the border in the best possible way. If your brain drifts too much into some kind of revenge mode then that's where bad things happen to both sides.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Sure fire products that Mexico can produce and have a huge domestic market for it are ladders, shovels, and wire cutters. Jokes aside, the Mexican should have created a less dependent system a long time ago. They have enough people to do it. I feel like the government there is just milking this moment to gain popularity.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Jokes aside, the Mexican should have created a less dependent system a long time ago.

That's for sure. History may tell us why it didn't happen. But let's hope things get better.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

For the cost issues, it's good to know that there are policies where you don't mind open ended costs. You had presented yourself as a fiscal hawk in the past but it looks like you've evolved somewhat. It's probably better to say that you are issue driven and not necessarily a fiscal conservative. Unlimited spending in some areas, restricted spending in others.

Yep. Unlimited spending in building a wall and keeping out undesirables. But no chance on spending money to take care of the citizens of the country.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Ah, well that's a relief. When you talked about cutting DHS border protection funding as a solution I didn't realize it was just you throwing something out there that you hadn't thought through. I was worried the six figure guys were promoting that.

That's ok and don't worry, I'm not like most liberals and say things based on emotions

For the cost issues, it's good to know that there are policies where you don't mind open ended costs. You had presented yourself as a fiscal hawk in the past but it looks like you've evolved somewhat. It's probably better to say that you are issue driven and not necessarily a fiscal conservative. Unlimited spending in some areas, restricted spending in others.

Hmmmm, I don't think you get to define me by what you personally think I am. At the moment, sometimes, you need to amputate the limb to save the body. Obama had 8 years and nothing to resolve this, here we are, gangrene!

That being said, I still think we should feel obligated to put these unlimited resources to work in the most efficient way possible. That's something I know we can agree on.

Perhaps.

And be careful about promoting emotional things like "free rides.". Remember the goal is to protect the border in the best possible way. If your brain drifts too much into some kind of revenge mode then that's where bad things happen to both sides.

For one thing, I know the truth hurts for some people, I'm fully aware of it, second, I'm not an impulse, emotionally and revenge driven person. I'm a conservative, when I'm angry or frustrated, I go to the firing range or the gym or the kitchen.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I'm not trying to define you. You support unlimited spending for some things you support, and you support a more strict fiscal policy for the programs you don't support. That means you're pretty much like everyone else.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I'm not trying to define you. You support unlimited spending for some things you support, and you support a more strict fiscal policy for the programs you don't support. That means you're pretty much like everyone else.

And you are entitled to your personal opinion.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I sure am.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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