Mexico fumes at 'hostile' Trump immigration rules as U.S. talks loom

White House spokesman Sean Spicer described U.S.-Mexico ties as healthy and robust. [He said[, "I think the relationship with Mexico is phenomenal right now."

What a tone-deaf hack. Spicer must be writing from an "Alternative Dictionary" when he applies the word " phenomenal" to current US/Mexican relations.

@LFR writing from an "Alternative Dictionary"

Two quotes come to mind.

Masha Gessen (Russian American journalist):

It’s not just that both Putin and Trump lie, it is that they lie in the same way and for the same purpose: blatantly, to assert power over truth itself.

Hannah Arendt The Origins of Totalitarianism:

“Before mass leaders seize the power to fit reality to their lies, their propaganda is marked by its extreme contempt for facts as such, for in their opinion fact depends entirely on the power of man who can fabricate it.”

The loop continues to loop. I guess people want to just follower-the-leader and believe what he (and his lackeys) say like true believers and cultists have done throughout history. I guess it's much easier to follow the leader than having your own set of principles and/or doing actual fact checking. I saw thousands in New Jersey... or Sweden?

What a tone-deaf hack. Spicer must be writing from an "Alternative Dictionary" when he applies the word " phenomenal" to current US/Mexican relations.

I think he's using this dictionary: http://tlloh.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/TRUMP-DICTIONARY.jpg

Mexico fumes, they feel bad? The Mexican government should feel bad not properly protecting and taking care of their people, the Mexican government can pound sand, if they don't like it, then they should improve living conditions, human rights, get rid or tackle the out of control corruption that is so prevalent within that society. Good on Trump for being extremely aggressive and not backing down on this issue. It's been a serious problem for over 40 years and it's so refreshing to see a president that finally cares and wants to reinforce the rule of law and tackle the illegal immigration problem.

Mexico has no legal obligation to accept non-citizens from the US, and Trump has no more power to force them to do so than he does to make them build the wall.

Imagine a line of huge shanty towns just south of the border crammed with Central Americans at the mercy of cartels and other crime. Dystopian in the extreme.

Why would Mexico accept deported non-Mexicans, when America doesn't want them either? It makes no sense.

If America doesn't want them, that's America's problem. Not Mexico.

But I suspect that this is Trump pushing an unreasonable stance, so that he can drop it during negotiations, and look as if he is 'negotiating', thereby getting what he actually wants. Which is a smart negotiating tactic - it worked in China where first making it look like he wasn't going to continue with the One China policy, after agreeing to it they then paid him back by giving him trademarks he's been trying to get there for a decade.

If America doesn't want them, that's America's problem. Not Mexico.

What a bunch of garbage! They are still Mexican nationals and don't have any status in the US except for being illegal, of course it's not the problem of e US, the US didn't push or ask these people to come across the border illegally, it's the responsibility of the Mexican government to care and protect their people and not encourage to pawn them off because they don't want to deal with the issue and Mexico has been doing this forever.

But I suspect that this is Trump pushing an unreasonable stance, so that he can drop it during negotiations, and look as if he is 'negotiating', thereby getting what he actually wants. Which is a smart negotiating tactic

One thing I know about Trump from my days back in high school, Trump has always complained about the open borders and always demanded that the presidents do something about it and neither party did anything, there is no way in heaven that Trump is going to flexible on this issue, this was one of the issues that bothered him since the late 80's.

it worked in China where first making it look like he wasn't going to continue with the One China policy, after agreeing to it they then paid him back by giving him trademarks he's been trying to get there for a decade.

China is not on our doorsteps and it's a completely different story. Trump not only didn't back off on his extreme vetting policy, he's doubling down on his stance and good on him.

Mexicans complaining that they can't enter the US illegally or the illegal ones there will get deported really...Good on Trump for taking such a stance.Its does not matter what side of the fence you sit on but the law is the law.Im not a Trump fan at all but what he is doing is for the better not the worse.

We may disagree on many issues, but at least you can see beyond the politics of this and that enforcing the law only makes sense.

If America doesn't want them, that's America's problem. Not Mexico.

What a bunch of garbage! They are still Mexican nationals and don't have any status in the US except for being illegal

Did you not read the article?

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security unveiled plans on Tuesday to consider almost all illegal immigrants subject to deportation, and will seek to send many of them to Mexico if they entered the United States from there, regardless of nationality.

And did you not read my comment:

Why would Mexico accept deported non-Mexicans, when America doesn't want them either?

Try keeping up before making comments.

Funny that enforcing laws which have existed for decades is considered "hostile." But Mexico is so corrupt that it's economy has become dependent on remittences from it's citizens who are living and working in America illegally. Despite vast mineral, energy, and agricultural resources, not mot mention natural beauty, these same politicians calling American enforcement of American law "hostile" loot every peso they can get. And if weren't for the rampant state corruption which steals most of what the country produces, the people of Mexico would be prosperous enough that they wouldn't have to sneak into America to wash dishes and pick fruit.

Mexico has no legal obligation to accept non-citizens from the US,

If they are Mexican citizens, Mexico does indeed have an obligation, and a very strong one, to accept them, just as America has an obligation to accept it's own citizens who are deported back to America.

America does not deport non-Mexicans to Mexico, unless it is done inadvertently. Japanese, Chinese, Russians, and all others are deported to their home countries, and nowhere else. What you don't realize is that many people from Guatemala or Honduras claim Mexican citizenship, because the Mexican matricular consular ID card is easy for anyone to get, some American states will issue licenses to these card holders, and some banks will allow holders of these cards to open bank accounts. When these people are arrested for being in America illegally, they are deported to Mexico, because the only documentation they have shows them to be from Mexico. If Mexico doesn't want these people deported to Mexico, they need to tighten up the rules for their issuance. Being the corrupt thieves that they are, Mexican consular officials will sell these cards to anyone who is willing to pay for them.

Funny that a few years ago a San Diego radio talk show host said that California should issue licenses to illegal aliens with matricula consular cards, because it would allow the state to know who these people were. Less than two hours later, someone delivered an official matricular consular card with the talk show host's photo and name on it. Anyone can get one of these cards, regardless of where you are from.

Mexico has no legal obligation to accept non-citizens from the US,

If they are Mexican citizens, Mexico does indeed have an obligation

That response makes no sense. I made a comment about non-citizens, and you said 'if they are Mexican citizens'. How can non-citizens be citizens?

America does not deport non-Mexicans to Mexico

But if you read the article, they are proposing to start doing so:

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security unveiled plans on Tuesday to consider almost all illegal immigrants subject to deportation, and will seek to send many of them to Mexico if they entered the United States from there, regardless of nationality.

Did you not read the article?

Yes, but ok, let me rephrase that, regardless of Nationality if they are illegal, they should be deported, that's it.

Try keeping up before making comments.

Don't worry, I am. I'm just commenting on how the left find it appalling that Trump wants to crack down heavily on illegal aliens.

Yes, but ok, let me rephrase that, regardless of Nationality if they are illegal, they should be deported, that's it.

How is that a rephrasing of this:

What a bunch of garbage! They are still Mexican nationals and don't have any status in the US except for being illegal

That not a rephrasing, it's an entirely different statement.

And to address your statement, you're right, they should be departed regardless of nationality, but Mexico has no obligation to accept them regardless of nationality. Which is the point I said which you called "a bunch of garbage".

Try keeping up before making comments.

Don't worry, I am.

You say that, except that your original post shows you weren't.

This is what happens when you let people stroll into your country (Mexico) and then stroll into another country (America) illegally. Mexico doesn`t seem to be interested in controlling its borders. Finally, a president that enforces immigration laws.

@Stranger, I think the US will argue that since that since Mexico failed to stop the non-Mexican immigrants entering the US, Mexico bears the responsibility. It will create absolute humanitarian carnage on the border, but Trump won't care; he wants this to dissuade immigrants from setting out for the US in the first place. The real problem is that this will probably have quite a lot of support in the US. I'm not saying I agree with this at all, its just how I think it will play out.

I think the US will argue that since that since Mexico failed to stop the non-Mexican immigrants entering the US, Mexico bears the responsibility.

They can argue it all they want. It doesn't change the fact that Mexico has no more responsibility for non-Mexicans than America does.

I suspect the US will get about as far as they have in trying to get Mexico to agree to pay for the wall.

I'm not saying I agree with this at all, its just how I think it will play out.

I think you're probably right.

Mexico is hypocritical whenever they criticize US immigration policies. Mexican policies are a hundred times more restrictive than ours. They are just unhappy that we might stop taking their unwanted citizens and let them send dollars back to Mexico.

Having immigration laws and enforcing them just as all other nations do is "hostile"? Mexico has a wall on it's southern border.

ClippetyClop, I agree with your sentiment but not on the mechanics. The boarder is a two-way phenomenon, and if Mexico refuses entry to non-citizens, there's nothing more than catapulting them across the boarder (or forcing them to sneak in - that would be ironic) that will work.

It is a no-go. I am astounded that so-called "smart people" even suggested it; proposing a futile plan simply makes one look idiotic. Wait - hey, a theme!

if they entered the United States from there, regardless of nationality.

Why shouldn't Mexico be expected to take them if they did in fact enter from Mexico? Maybe Mexico should properly enforce their borders if they don't like it. US enforces it's borders -> Mexico enforces its borders -> No Problem.

And to address your statement, you're right, they should be departed regardless of nationality, but Mexico has no obligation to accept them regardless of nationality. Which is the point I said which you called "a bunch of garbage".

Well, then that presents a serious conundrum for those illegals if their own country or any other nationality. Trump is standing firm and he should never cave in to this, if Mexico wants to be bullish, then the president can be equally as bullish, we already know that he is.

You say that, except that your original post shows you weren't.

No, I was, I was just saying my personal POV which is allowed.

Mexico is hypocritical whenever they criticize US immigration policies. Mexican policies are a hundred times more restrictive than ours. They are just unhappy that we might stop taking their unwanted citizens and let them send dollars back to Mexico.

Exactly, thank God that's all coming to an end. It's Mexico's problem and if they don't want their own people back, then what does that say about the country? Mexico has done exceptionally well given the fact all these years we had open borders and now Mexico has the audacity to get angry at Trump for wanting to aggressively put an end to illegal immigration. Good on him for doing it. Finally a president with some....!

Why shouldn't Mexico be expected to take them if they did in fact enter from Mexico?

You realize that logic equates to: Why shouldn't America be expected to keep them if they aren't in America?

The answer is the same for both questions. Mexico shouldn't be expected to take them, because they aren't Mexican, and America shouldn't be expected to keep them, because they aren't American.

But I suspect that this is Trump pushing an unreasonable stance, so that he can drop it during negotiations, and look as if he is 'negotiating', thereby getting what he actually wants.

Seems to be a good plan.

Stranger: I think what Bass is trying to say (and the article points this out) is if the illegal immigrant came into the US via the Mexican/US border, then they get sent back without regard to their nationality to where they came from, Mexico.

I think Trump is at least trying to do the right thing. Imagine Japan letting in a half million Chinese every year illegally. And they demand that they be allowed to stay, have a "sanctuary city" in Osaka and Tokyo, give birth to kids in Japan and they automatically become Japanese citizens. Sound rediculous? Well, that's Americal and Trump is trying to change that.

I think Mexico's lack of patrolling their own border is hostile..

Once again, these arent new policies. Second, of course they are hostile to Mexico because America's interests are finally being given top priority over Mexico's desire to let all their poor people come to the USA and get benefits at US taxpayer expense. Im sure its great if you have a country where all of your poor people are supported by someone else's money and you can save billions on social programs.

As far as deprting non Mexicans back to Mexico, definitely yes. IF they came over the Mexican border, that means Mexico didnt do their job preventing them from getting into Mexico. So the US gives them back to Mexico, then Mexico can send them back to Guatemala or wherever. Need to make some incentive for Mexico to not be a pass through country on the way to the USA. Because if someone from Guatmela can, then someone from ISIS countries can too.

Well, then that presents a serious conundrum for those illegals if their own country or any other nationality.

It presents a conundrum for America - as they need to deport them somewhere. It's not Mexico's conundrum though.

No, I was, I was just saying my personal POV which is allowed.

No, you made a statement that Mexico has a responsibility for Mexican citizens, which the article was clear that they were not Mexican citizens.

But hey, I know you will never admit you were wrong on anything, so we can drop it here. I know you were wrong, you know you were wrong, and anyone reading it knows you were wrong, so you don't need to admit you were wrong.

Stranger: I think what Bass is trying to say (and the article points this out) is if the illegal immigrant came into the US via the Mexican/US border, then they get sent back without regard to their nationality to where they came from, Mexico.

They got into Mexico somehow, same as they got into America somehow. Therefore if Mexico is supposed to have responsibility for them, so should America. It's America's responsibility to patrol it's borders for people coming in, not Mexico's. It cuts both ways.

Which is to say, it cuts neither way. Mexico has no more responsibility for them than America does.

@Blacklabel Agreed. Funny to see how many countries get miffed that they can not rely on America as their outsourced welfare program anymore

how is it hostile? keeping potential troublemakers and welfare moochers out isnt hostile, its common sense! hurry up and build the damn wall!

Its the purpose of building the wall. Anyone who illegally came from the Mexico side gets taken right back over to the Mexican side and dropped off where they last came from. What happens to them after that is Mexico's responsibility, they can round them up and deport them as illegals in Mexico if they like.

Anyone who illegally came from the Mexico side gets taken right back over to the Mexican side and dropped off where they last came from. What happens to them after that is Mexico's responsibility

If they got into America, they are America's problem. Not Mexico's. America has as much culpability for letting them into America as Mexico does for letting them into Mexico.

Yes, and America has decided that the solution to what you call America's problem is that they are going to put them right back over to Mexico side. American part of the problem solved.

Yes, and America has decided that the solution to what you call America's problem is that they are going to put them right back over to Mexico side. American part of the problem solved.

And Mexico has absolutely no obligation to receive them.

American problem not solved.

Attitude towards Russia: Why is having a good relationship such a bad thing?

Attitude towards Mexico: You will get nothing and like it.

which among other things seek to deport non-Mexicans to Mexico.

Wait, what? They're going to pick someone up and send him to Mexico even when he's not Mexican? Why do all of their plans include some kind of bat shiate crazy provision that flies in the face of common sense and the law?

Can they not do that, please?

SuperLib - Ha! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f6l1QljpMo

Why would Mexico complain the U.S. wants to enforce its own law. My question to Mexico is what is wrong with their country that would cause so many people to break laws to enter the U.S.

The answer is the same for both questions. Mexico shouldn't be expected to take them, because they aren't Mexican, and America shouldn't be expected to keep them, because they aren't American.

Then if that is the case, we should make a camp help them take care of them, but essentially they will be Stateless and have eternal refugee status.

But hey, I know you will never admit you were wrong on anything,

That's absolutely not true!

so we can drop it here.

Yes, and America has decided that the solution to what you call America's problem is that they are going to put them right back over to Mexico side. American part of the problem solved.

My stance exactly! Problem solved, but I'm just happy that Trump is not lettuce on this. Good for him.

Then if that is the case, we should make a camp help them take care of them, but essentially they will be Stateless and have eternal refugee status.

No country other than your own can stop you from doing that inside American borders.

Well, in any case, I feel sorry for these people. They will b wondering around homeless and stateless.

It is noteworthy that in the years since the economic meltdown there has been more migration from the USA to Mexico than from Mexico to the USA. As a result, the number of immigrants from Mexico illegally in the USA has gone down since 2008.

It is reasonable for any country to want to control its borders, but it is also important to treat one's neighbors with dignity and humanity. Mr. Chump is the opposite of a diplomat.

Well, in any case, I feel sorry for these people. They will b wondering around homeless and stateless.

Yes, but there is nothing to be done. Circumstances dictate that this will happen, whether they are sent to a Mexican limbo or back to a country they barely know. It is not America's responsibility to care for the poor and downtrodden who show up on our boarders. America is the same as every other country. Whoever thinks that America is a "shining city on a hill" must have been listening to Reagan, not Trump. Times, they are a'changin'.

I feel sorry for these people

I feel sorry for the American taxpayers for being tricked into paying tens of billions for Trump's wall. That is one of many Trump broken promises. The wall probably won't be built in the first place (another broken promise). Trump is full of broken promises.

Good on Trump

Really?

“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

– Carl Sagan

“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

Interesting quote. I think this is a major problem for Team Trump. They've invested so much into personally backing him, more as an evangelical than a leader, that they now can't dump him without looking foolish for all the things they have said about him.

On that note, I think we need to make a concerted effort on the other side to not do a big 'told ya so' when some people are brave enough to admit he's not what they had hoped him to be.

Should Canada enact the same policy where illegals from 3rd countries are sent to the US if they crossed in from the US? I'm assuming Trump and his fans have no problem with that.

Laguna: "SuperLib - Ha! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f6l1QljpMo"

Har! Thanks, Laguna! But back to the topic at hand:

Activist: Illegal immigration hurts black men most:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eru5lJr35yQ

There's a lot of hypocrisy here. Does Mexico have a problem with American citizens sneaking into Mexico to get a better life? America has thousands of Mexicans breaking into the USA, and America has had enough. It;s a fair attitude, and a legal requirement to put a stop to the mess.

mexico is going to lose its biggest drug market

America has thousands of Mexicans breaking into the USA, and America has had enough. It;s a fair attitude, and a legal requirement to put a stop to the mess.

Walls don't work. Especially with ones billed to taxpayers in the 10s and 10s (and I mean multiple tens) of billions of dollars. Maybe it's fair. All those US guns are being snuck into Mexico killing Mexicans (including innocents). Unless people believe in the gun fairy. The good point about Trump's wall is it will be good for the ladder business. Ladders have always worked. In fact they have worked for thousands of years over walls.

OK, I get it. Trump followers hate Mexico and Mexicans. You all wish Mexico would be taken out with a big hydrogen bomb. You dream about it every night. You hate the sight of Mexico so much that you want a 50ft wall to completely block the view from the US side. But those 10s and 10s of billions of dollars Trump will charge the tax payer for (and I do mean multiple 10s) is better spent elsewhere.

It's just the sheer stupidity with which they craft these laws that gets me.

Denying green card holders in their Muslim ban was just dumb and lacked clear thinking. And it banned countries with next to no production of terrorists while ignoring the ones who do.

This law about sending Guatamalians to Mexico in this proposal is just inept. We wouldn't accept Canada doing that to us.

The wall costs are estimated to be over $20 billion which every analyst says can be spent much more effectively in other cenforcement areas.

Just needlessly stupid.

It's just the sheer stupidity with which they craft these laws that gets me.

What's stupid? Because liberals disapprove?

Denying green card holders in their Muslim ban was just dumb and lacked clear thinking. And it banned countries with next to no production of terrorists while ignoring the ones who do.

Mistakes are made, Obama made a huge mistake with the Iranian deal, but you live and learn and that's why Trump's new immigration bill fixes those outlined flaws.

This law about sending Guatamalians to Mexico in this proposal is just inept. We wouldn't accept Canada doing that to us.

So where should they go. Guatemala is next door, they have similar cultures, speak the same language, easy for them to assimilate. What's the problem. Again, if they are Mexican citizens and the Mexican government refuses to take back their own citizens, that's not the problem of the US. Absolute ludicrous.

The wall costs are estimated to be over $20 billion which every analyst says can be spent much more effectively in other cenforcement areas.

Wow! Now all of a sudden the left are concerned about cost???!! What happened over the last 8 years, you guys didn't care, why the change all of a sudden.

So where should they go.

Guatemala.

Guatemala is next door, they have similar cultures, speak the same language, easy for them to assimilate.

Mexico has zero obligation to accept nationals from another country.

Again, if they are Mexican citizens and the Mexican government refuses to take back their own citizens

We aren't talking about Mexicans, we're talking about Guatemalans (or other non-Mexicans).

If Mexico refuses to take non-Mexican citizens that's not their problem, it's America's.

Wow! Now all of a sudden the left are concerned about cost?

Trump voters think walls grow on trees and little fairies pay for them. But it's really the tax payer who will. Then it just means more sales for ladders. Trump just hates Mexico. He hates them so much he's willing to screw over the taxpayers to build a wall that won't work anyway...10s and 10s and 10s of billions. And all you need is a 10 dollar ladder.

If Mexico refuses to take non-Mexican citizens that's not their problem, it's America's.

So then they should go to some immigration detention center and stay there indefinitely, I'm all for that. Keep them there. If none of these countries want their nationals back, then a detention center is the way to go. As long as they are out of our society, I'm all for it. Trump is doing an excellent job. Either way, as he said, they will be gone. Love this guy more and more.

I agree, bass. Mistakes have been made. That was the point of my entire post.

So then they should go to some immigration detention center and stay there indefinitely,

Who is going to pay for the incarceration of millions? Mexico won't pay. In fact more than half are not Mexican anyway. There are even a few Japanese illegals.

Amnesty is just around the corner and it will be all on Trump (like it was on Reagan)

@Strangerland - I completely agree Mexico has zero obligation to accept nationals from other countries. I also believe the U.S. has zero obligation to accept nationals for other countries as well and has the right to deport those in the U.S. illegally back to their homeland.

One issue is that Mexico has facilitated/allowed these immigrants to travel through Mexico and enter the United States. In that case Mexico has aided this activity and should be willing to work with the U.S. on this issue.

@Bass - I do not think people should be kept in detention centers. I think they should be returned to their country of nationality. The U.S. has enough leverage on these countries to do this if our politicians had the backbone to do so.

Finally for the hardship cases (Where kids are brought against there will to the U.S. by the parents) these should be dealt with on a case by case basis. Also deporting ALL people presently in the U.S. illegally is not practical. It is better to start with those who have engaged in criminal activity and also have abused our welfare systems. Stealing one's social security number (as happened to a guy from the U.S. I am working with in Japan) should be considered a severe crime (it cost him ma couple of thousand dollars and alot of time to get this undone). Misuse of a social security in this manner should be grounds for immediate deportation and denial of the ability to re-enter the U.S.

However the IRS has already admitted it encourages illegal immigrants to steal U.S. social security numbers, which is beyond belief considering how much time and money it costs the victims to straighten things out.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2016/04/13/irs-admits-it-encourages-illegals-to-steal-social-security-numbers-for-taxes/#38fbd2554c04

In the end the government (of either party) does not seem to truly give a rat's ass about members of the American middle class, the true backbone of the country.

Homeland Security chief John Kelly: There will be 'no mass deportations

(news source). Sorry Trump voters -another broken promise. The number of deportations now is really not much different than it was with Obama. It's just noticed in the news more now. And in fact the number of refugees under Trump is expected to be up this year. So, again, who is the sucker here?

as happened to a guy from the U.S. I am working with in Japan

Did it happen by an illegal? Is there some illegal alien living in the USA now with his identity? Why doesn't he just call the cops and have him busted. If he took out a mortgage and car loan with this person's ss number this criminal should be easy to track and arrest.

And is it really true that millions (with an M) of illegals are stealing SS numbers? Are more illegals in the USA stealing SS numbers than actual Americans? Can we get some confirmed numbers instead of rumors? What are the FBI stats on this?

I do not think people should be kept in detention centers. I think they should be returned to their country of nationality. The U.S. has enough leverage on these countries to do this if our politicians had the backbone to do so.

Oh, I agree with that 100%.

However the IRS has already admitted it encourages illegal immigrants to steal U.S. social security numbers, which is beyond belief considering how much time and money it costs the victims to straighten things out.

As a person who grew up half of his life in California, believe it. You don't even need a photo ID to get a voter application sent to you, it's all based on the honor system, that's how they get around to it, I'm not surprised by it. I know it happens without a doubt.

Great article by the way.

In the end the government (of either party) does not seem to truly give a rat's ass about members of the American middle class, the true backbone of the country.

They didn't and that's why they lost, the Democrats didn't get it about immigration and the open borders and they still don't, but they will very soon.

I'm not surprised by it. I know it happens without a doubt.

This is about as false as Trump's wall story (that he's going to get the Mexicans to pay). The only voter fraud stories I believe are arrest reports and the ones I can remember I can count in one hand. There are no five million fraudulent votes just like there is no Mexican who is going to pay for the wall (and even if its built people will use ladders to get over them)

The only voter fraud stories I believe are arrest reports and the ones I can remember I can count in one hand.

"I believe?" You can believe whatever you want. California DMV uses the honor system, if you bring a pay slip or a utility bill and sign the form you declare yourself the person to be that is requesting a new ID, you will get a new one. It happens all the time. I know because 6 years ago, I did myself, too easy and I'm an American. This is the reason why many illegals have drivers licenses and why in California Jerry Brown and the entire Democrat legislative branch vehemently oppose having voter ID cards. California, Denver, Arizona are all bad when it comes to voter fraud and now that Trump thankfully is slowly cracking down on it, the left is coming completely unglued about it as well as Mexico (as if it matters what they feel about the issue) I'm just happy that the crackdown is finally underway and the best part about it is, the liberals can't do squat about it and if they don't comply since California is an entitlement state (sad, very sad) Trump will withhold federal funding as he should.

Can you show your sources about Arizona, California, and Denver being bad about voter fraud?

You can believe whatever you want.

No mass arrest reports in the millions on voter fraud. It didn't happen and about as credible as Trump saying he will get Mexico to pay for the wall (he admitted he will get taxpayers to fund it).

Trump thankfully is slowly cracking down on it

No arrests in the news so it is not true- just like Trump's wall dream.

Trump will withhold federal funding as he should.

He won't do that- just like he won't get Mexico to pay for the wall. In fact, he can't do that.

Homeland Security chief John Kelly: There will be 'no mass deportations

(news source). Sorry Trump voters

I'm just happy that the crackdown is finally underway

The number of refugees under Trump in the first year is expected to be higher than Obama's last year. Another Trump broken promise.

many illegals have drivers licenses

So?

since California is an entitlement state

California has companies that run the world. The world needs California.

It's California, a blue State, why on Earth would the bluest of blue state engage in mass arrests? That's like like Democrats advocating for Texas to ban guns, it will never happen. Anyway, I don't need to go back in forth on this, if the Trump admin. wants to crack down on voter fraud, they need to congress to push have investigations on it.

You can't get more liberal than the LA Times.

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-0208-immigrant-drivers-licenses-20160208-story.html

California is among 12 states that now allow immigrants in the country illegally to obtain driver's licenses, areas covering an estimated 37% of that population, according to an August report by the Pew Charitable Trusts.

California, at 22%, has the nation's largest percentage of immigrants in the country illegally who are eligible for driver's licenses, according to Pew.

Critics say immigrants in the country illegally shouldn't be given the privilege of obtaining licenses because they broke the law by entering the country. States such as California are only facilitating illegal immigration, they argue.

Other states such as Florida, New Jersey and Georgia have considered whether immigrants in the country illegally are entitled to driver's licenses, a rite of passage deeply rooted in American culture.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/illegal-immigrants-show-strong-demand-for-california-drivers-licenses-1428353012

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/12/25/arizona-immigrant-drivers-license-military-rule/4200497/

Under Obama, but that's going to go away. Trump has been on the job a month and has a lot on his plate, Obamacare and tax reform, but illegal immigration and the inquiry to crack down will come and not a time too soon.

California, at 22%, has the nation's largest percentage of immigrants in the country illegally who are eligible for driver's licenses, according to Pew.

So? They are not voting.

Obamacare

Boehner: Obamacare repeal and replace 'not what's going to happen'

(new source) Sorry, Obamacare is here to stay. It's a Republican idea anyway. Another Trump broken promise.

illegal immigration and the inquiry to crack down will come and not a time too soon.

Homeland Security chief John Kelly: There will be 'no mass deportations

(news source). Another broken promise out of many many. And no wall (at least what Mexico will pay) so Trump is really scamming out his voters.

So? They are not voting.

If they can get a drivers license based on the honor system, they can equally as well obtain a voter registration form.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/08/former-doj-official-non-citizens-registered-to-vote-through-motor-voter-registration-forms/

Local state government officials are registering non-U.S. citizens as valid voters — even when the non-citizens say they are not Americans on their voter registration forms, a former Justice Department attorney tells The Daily Caller.

J. Christian Adams, a former United States Department of Justice official in the Civil Rights Division will show the Supreme Court in a brief later this month that non-citizens are registering to vote through the government’s motor voter program. The motor voter act became law during the Clinton administration as an easier way to register voters through their local Department of Motor Vehicles offices, but Adams says the program is failing to weed out those who are not American citizens.

“The bigger problem is that when they get those drivers licenses, there’s a government social services agency that is compelled under motor voter to offer voter registration,” Adams says. “For example, I’m representing a client — the American Civil Rights Union. We’re about to file a brief to the Supreme Court that shows actual voter registrations of people who on their voter registration forms that they’re not citizens, but they’re still getting registered to vote.”

“[These will be] the actual voter registrations forms through motor voter,” he said, noting, “The point is, because of motor voter in issuing these alien document cards, you’re going to have non-citizens moving on to the voter rolls. It’s inevitable,” said Adams noting, “The Justice Department protects the lawless, because there’s a political benefit to this administration to allow lawlessness to occur. Because if those people who lawlessly are on the voter rolls go to vote, there’s probably a 9 in 10 chance they’re voting for Democrats.”

Thank God those days are over and Sally Yates is finally out.

Like other states, illegal immigrants in California are flooding local DMV’s in an effort to get drivers licenses. However, many states are not remarkably distinguishing the licenses issued to both citizen and non-citizen alike, so it is difficult to see from an issued license if an individual is an American or not.

States including Michigan, Maryland, D.C., Illinois, California, Vermont, and Colorado are bucking a federal law that requires their DMVs to issue explicitly different looking drivers licenses to non-citizens from the licenses U.S. citizens received.

they can equally as well obtain a voter registration form.

No they can't and lack of arrests prove it. Sorry, the story of 5 million illegal votes is false. Please show mass arrest reports and it will convince me.

Oh bass, I suppose I could go line by line and explain how that story is tricking you into see something that just isn't there, but I'll take a shortcut and see if you can figure it out yourself:

What kind of numbers do you have?

No they can't and lack of arrests prove it.

You joking, it's California, that's like saying Atheists will take over the South one day.

Sorry, the story of 5 million illegal votes is false. Please show mass arrest reports and it will convince me.

No, I don't need to, and it wouldn't make a difference to you because you never read facts even if someone puts them forth you like to put forth what you want to believe and that's fine. I'll stick to believing what I know and seen and what most people know. I'm just hope that Tump will withhold federal money from as many sanctuary cities as possible.

I suppose I could go line by line and explain how that story is tricking you into see something that just isn't there, but I'll take a shortcut and see if you can figure it out yourself:

Save it, my brother is a cop whose out on the beat every single day in the Hollenbeck division, if I have to take your word over his, you lose all day.

What kind of numbers do you have?

you never read facts even if someone puts them forth you like to put forth what you want to believe and that's fine.

I'm not married to an opinion. I'm married to facts. If someone can show facts that the illegal voting happened, I'll be as critical of illegal voting as anyone.

But no one has every shown any facts, because they don't exist.

But no one has every shown any facts, because they don't exist.

While I agree with you that it is probably true that the 'facts' you are talking about don't exist, just because no one has shown facts does not necessarily mean they do not exist.

While I agree with you that it is probably true that the 'facts' you are talking about don't exist, just because no one has shown facts does not necessarily mean they do not exist.

Would you say the same of humans with wings? Fire-breathing dragons? Witches? Wizards?

Sure, it's not impossible that they could exist. But the fact that there has never been anything indicating their existence to be true, pretty much entirely points to someone having made them up.

Just like the illegal voters.

I'm not married to an opinion. I'm married to facts.

If someone can show facts that the illegal voting happened,

There is no way in especially in my home state that the libs would do anything like that. No way. Put two of THE most liberal news outlets out there, not even close to anything conservative and they all know it. But like I said, if I have to choose between believing anyone on here on my brother who's been in the hardest and heaviest crime areas, I'll take his word every time.

But no one has every shown any facts, because they don't exist.

Sorry, I'm from California, I know it and I've seen it and there is zero reason I would lie about it.

There is no way in especially in my home state that the libs would do anything like that. No way. Put two of THE most liberal news outlets out there, not even close to anything conservative and they all know it. But like I said, if I have to choose between believing anyone on here on my brother who's been in the hardest and heaviest crime areas, I'll take his word every time.

And yet, there are no facts. Nothing.

Sorry, I'm from California, I know it and I've seen it and there is zero reason I would lie about it.

You claimed this before. How were you able to identify that the person who was voting was an illegal alien, and how were the people at the voting station unable to recognize this illegality like you did?

Sorry, but your story is so full of holes swiss cheese could take a lesson.

Why would a cop in LA be an expert and have experience with the workings of voter applications? And if he does, can he give us the numbers? And why haven't all of these people been arrested by a cop who sees them breaking the law?

The reason you don't have numbers is because they don't exist. You are taking something that "could happen" and attaching a conservative bias to it to make it real. Then you find anecdotes or mistakes and present that as evidence of some massive crime that must be happening. What that means is about 90% of your evidence comes from your imagination. Which is why you don't have numbers and which is why no one is getting arrested.

Would you say the same of humans with wings? Fire-breathing dragons? Witches? Wizards? Sure, it's not impossible that they could exist. But the fact that there has never been anything indicating their existence to be true, pretty much entirely points to someone having made them up.

Let's stick to the world of reality, shall we? My point was merely that just because no one has shown facts does not necessarily mean they do not exist. Until people realized the world was roundish, they thought the world was flat. That does not mean the world was flat until people finally realized it was round, Just because something has not been proven yet does not necessarily mean it is not a fact.

Save it, my brother is a cop

You are just saying that. Just like some people say that Obama was born in Kenya. It doesn't make it true.

No, I don't need to

No, you can't and it means there is no mass voter fraud.

puts them forth

No facts about arrests for voter fraud put forth. No voter fraud.

Sorry, I'm from California, I know it and I've seen it

Me too and I haven't. So not true.

my brother is a cop

I have two brothers who are cops and they say otherwise. No voter fraud arrests = no voter fraud.

By the way, you didn't grow up in California

I did, so I know the real situation. There is no big scale voter fraud there.

So you're calling me a liar?

Yes, and no voter fraud. And no Mexicans will pay for the wall. Also, Trump has not trashed NAFTA. Where is Trump's new plan to ban Muslims (another broken promise). He also has not officially declared China a currency manipulator. Trump is a promise breaker.

Again, no voter fraud since there are no voter fraud arrests.

investigate this and purge the illegals

Trump's advisor just said no mass deporations. Another Trump broken promise.

You've been saying it. But proving it? Not so much.

Put aside the talk of sanctuary cities, your brother's wife, and your childhood in California. They are not evidence. They are you talking around the fact that you have no evidence. Let's get the clutter off the table and stick to verifiable information.

Your link simply stated that driver's licences for illegals looks too closely like ones for legal Americans and because of that a voter registration official might make a mistake when reviewing the application. That doesn't seem so sinister and planned to me.

But keeping in tradition with "I don't need evidence I just know in my heart it's true", the guy in the article follows that up with, "The Justice Department protects the lawless, because there’s a political benefit to this administration to allow lawlessness to occur. Because if those people who lawlessly are on the voter rolls go to vote, there’s probably a 9 in 10 chance they’re voting for Democrats."

And now we have a conspiracy theory about the Justice Department.

So the Justice Department is in on it, illegals are in on it, the voter registration officials are in on it, it's so widespread that cops and regular people know all about it.....but no one has been arrested just, oh, I dunno, because. But not because of lack of evidence, right?

Now we have claims of millions of illegals voting, people being bused in from other states, etc. And still not a single shred of actual evidence to verify these claims and others. Believe whatever nutjob theory you want but don't tell me you have proof because you don't. You have anecdotes and an easily manipulated imagination.

You've been saying it. But proving it? Not so much.

Again, I have, but since it doesn't satisfy YOUR liberal perceived feelings about it, you dismiss it, so why would I bother showing you proof after proof when you call foul to it?

Let's get the clutter off the table and stick to verifiable information.

Ok, so remember that when you talk about Trump being a racist, it means nothing and you have no proof, there is nothing that can concretely prove that he is or are unverifiable opinions something that liberals think they are immune from?

.

That doesn't seem so sinister and planned to me.

Of course liberals would say something so nutty. But then again, liberals didn't believe that Trump would ever become president either or that the GOP take congress. When it comes to facts, so far since 2010 liberals have been consistently wrong.

Because if those people who lawlessly are on the voter rolls go to vote, there’s probably a 9 in 10 chance they’re voting for Democrats."

It's California, the bluest of blue states, sanctuary city, you have to be a complete imbecile and fool to believe it doesn't happen.

And now we have a conspiracy theory about the Justice Department.

Not at all, just the truth, it's California, NOT Texas.

Now we have claims of millions of illegals voting,

Exactly!

Exactly!

No arrest reports so no voter fraud

There is more than enough.

Deport or refuse entry to any Trump official. Refuse to be intimidated.

There is more than enough.

How many arrests have there been? Also, what is new about Trump's wall? Is it going to be built? Who is going to pay for it? They have projected good ladders sales from it.

Of course liberals would say

This is the part where you run away from the conversation and just give a useless rant about liberals. The topic is voter fraud. Stop running.

Your article said that the driver's licenses for illegals looks too similar to ones for legal Americans. That's it. Nothing else. You have shown no evidence that people voted. You've shown no evidence of the conspiracy you claim is happening by the departments who run it. You've shown no voter rolls with illegals on it. You've shown absolutely nothing other than "people processing registration might make a mistake."

That's because evidence doesn't exist. Ever ask yourself why Trump's spokespeople have declined on multiple occasions to provide evidence for his California claims? Because there is none. Trump claims tens of thousands got on buses to vote in New Hampshire. Any statements from drivers or bus rental companies? Any pictures of the buses? Any evidence of planning and marketing for such a large event?

No. That's because it never happened. Which is the same reason why you have no evidence. It's all in your imagination.

They have projected good ladders sales from it.

And Border patrol will also invest in more sensors, more dogs, Shepherds are the best, more agents, more drones.

This is the part where you run away from the conversation and just give a useless rant about liberals.

Code: libs backed in a corner again.

The topic is voter fraud. Stop running.

I don't need to, I'm not a liberal.

Your article said that the driver's licenses for illegals looks too similar to ones for legal Americans. That's it. Nothing else.

And through that, with just a utility bill, they can apply for a voter registration card, that's all I was saying. Those are the rules of the California DMV, has nothing to do with me or how I feel, just what's happening in the Sanctuary state of California.

You have shown no evidence that people voted.

I did and from THE most liberal source, the LA Times or as I call them The "Liberal Atheist Times" not some conservative outlet. You personally chose to dismiss it and that's fine. I'll go with the Times and what have seen, anything else what people choose to believe or not to believe doesn't concern me. ."

Any statements from drivers or bus rental companies? Any pictures of the buses? Any evidence of planning and marketing for such a large event?

If I were allowed to upload personal posts, I would, but sadly, can't.

It's all in your imagination.

Yeah, just like Trump will never run, never be president, Democrats will rule forever, will keep the House, the Senate, all the legislative branches, governorships across the country, yeah, all in my imagination. Lol

The LA Times article says absolutely nothing about voter fraud. It says that illegals can get driver's licenses. That's it. Anything past that is entirely in your imagination.

And what about personal documents? I was giving an example of a voter fraud claim made by Trump with zero supporting evidence. Because there is none. Just like your claim.

Either put up or shit up. Show me the data.

And Border patrol will also invest in more sensors, more dogs, Shepherds are the best, more agents, more drones.

They already tried this ten years ago. And who is paying for this?

I did

How many people have been arrested for voter fraud? That's the evidence.

I dont understand why anyone is mad with Trump's decision to secure the border... ALL countries enforce their borders to know and protect their citizens. Mexicans enter the states legally and have worked very hard to get to the states, yet democrats and liberals claim that its okay for those who cross the border illegally. Im from Texas and know for a fact that the majority of those who cross the border illegally want to get American dollars, not pay tax, get free education, healthcare and then run back to Mexico to live like kings. Those who cross legally actually want to stay in the states. Another pointer is that war veterans who fought in wars still pay for their healthcare around $500-1,300/m for their families yet they are just a shy above the poverty line...they struggle. yet illegal immigrants get paid under the table or enter a fake social security number (yes, i have seen this many many times) but never pay for taxes and therefore qualify for free healthcare. and they do not want to learn English. and those liberals, democrats, mexican officials, illegals (thank god hillary didnt win the presidency) say that by America securing its border is a racist act!? Are you serious?

yes, i have seen this many many times

Please be specific. Where did you see it? And this is all on Trump now since his cabinet says there will be no mass deportation. All these illegals will stay now and it is Trump's fault.