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Middle East media fear growing Islamophobia after France attack

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There are crazies in every religion and it is up to the good, moderate, people inside each religion to deal with the fringes of their groups.

Perhaps we could agree that killing anyone is bad, regardless of religious ... or non-religious beliefs and get that pushed across the world in music, video, and written and spoken media?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

No one deserves to die but they were playing with fire, their publications are disgusting and surely bordering on or illegal. There are surely not only Islamic extremists that would be angry enough to take serious action.

-30 ( +2 / -30 )

"Muslims will find themselves in a fix because extremist groups in Europe *will exploit this incident to fuel Islamophobia"

So that is how it works. Iconoclasts poke fun at your religion, are murdered for doing so, and -- poof -- European 'extreemist' groups will" fuel "Islamophobia".

Riiiiiiight.

Muslim fundamentalists have demonstrated their threats of violence against 'insults to Islam" are credible. Very credible. Well, it ain't a phobia.

Its a rational response to a credible threat.

Islam has a problem. We do not see this problem in other religions today. Oversensitive Christians do not kill cartoonists when they are lampooned. They didn't kill the desecration Art of Piss Christ. Self-righteous Jews do not demand special privileges from their neighbors. And they don't kill you when they lampoon their beliefs. The mindless shame cult known as Scientology will sue you, and not kill you. I could go on, but you get the point.

Islam is special.

The fundamental problem with Islam is its fundamentals: it believes in jihad, no separation of church and state and martyrdom.

Islam is special. Islam has special needs. Its basic tenants need to be reformed.

There are some trying very hard to do so. They have a long, uphill battle. Against the so-called extremists. Like the stupid people who wrote "Muslims will find themselves in a fix because extremist groups in Europe will exploit this incident to fuel Islamophobia"

14 ( +16 / -2 )

No one deserves to die but they were playing with fire, their publications are disgusting and surely bordering on or illegal.

No, not illegal. Disrespectful maybe, but not illegal or even close.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

No one deserves to die but they were playing with fire,

This observation comment takes different forms, and all to common. It really demands a thorough repudiation. I'll make it simple:

You've criticized the victims of the murder for provoking violence. You say the victims are rude, and needlessly "offensive" and “inflammatory”

You've got it backwards: The truth is that it’s precisely the murderous intimidation and bullying violence that justifies the inflammatory content.

Get it: because the fundamentalist Muslims threaten and kill when we do not defer to their over-sensative special status seeking, they fundamentalist Muslims have made it necessary to treat their stupid ideas with nothing but scorn and contempt.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

Middle East media fear growing Islamophobia after France attack

Good I hope they do suffer from it , infact , I hope they suffer from it enough until they decide to clean house from the inside, only the muslim community can do anything about the radicals.

They need to monitor and police their own , expose the filth that hide amongst them under the guise of defending allah.

Until the leaders take action they should expect the back lash.

Notice there has been no outcry from the mulsim community about this attack in france or any other, they lay silent and covert the next bunch of attackers lying in wait to strike.

They need to stand up and out these would be attackers, decry the threats and attacks publically and loudly, but we hear only the silence from them.

3 ( +11 / -9 )

Notice there has been no outcry from the mulsim community about this attack in france or any other, they lay silent and covert the next bunch of attackers lying in wait to strike.

Really?

http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/01/07/what-fox-wont-show-you-muslim-leaders-are-conde/202049

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/world/2015/01/08/Muslim-unions-leaders-condemn-barbaric-Paris-attack-.html

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/national/2014/12/15/muslim-leaders-condemn-sydney-siege.html

Maybe you should try watching some other news, as it appears whichever news you are watching isn't giving you the full picture.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Notice there has been no outcry from the mulsim [sic] community about this attack in france or any other,

This is simply not true.

The Union of Islamic Organisations of France released a statement condemning the attack, along with Imam Hassen Chalghoumi saying that those behind the attack "have sold their soul to hell". The vice president of the U.S. Ahmadiyya Muslim Community also condemned the attack, saying, "The culprits behind this atrocity have violated every Islamic tenet of compassion, justice, and peace." According to International Business Times columnist Zoe Mintz, the "Je suis Charlie" slogan was also used by Muslim social media users, with some condemning the attack specifically as an assault on free speech.

+++

The League of Arab States released a collective condemnation of the attack. Al-Azhar University also released a statement of denunciation, that violence was never appropriate regardless of "offence committed against sacred Muslim sentiments"

-- from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting#Muslim_reactions

It took me 10 seconds to find that.

You do the fight against idiot religiosity no favors by spreading misinformation.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Too bad we cannot post our own pictures here of Mohammad, Jesus, Ghandi or others. Would be fun.

Extremists need to grow up and get with the dance.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

I hope the 20% of Muslims that believe leaving the faith should result in death realize that that equivalency can work both ways.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Strangerland:

" Really? "

Yes, really. All your references point to islamic organizations in the West, who give pro-forma statements of disapproval.

I was asking if there comparable mass rallies to the "Je suis Charlie" rallies in islamic countries. Unsurprisingly, there are none. And the Middle East media, as this article points out, are complaining not about the murder but about a fictious backlash, which of course never happens.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

'No one deserves to die but they were playing with fire, their publications are disgusting and surely bordering on or illegal. There are surely not only Islamic extremists that would be angry enough to take serious action.'

Why are they disgusting? Is it because they satirize a particular religion? Religion is an opinion and it is fair game. France has a long history of attacking corruption, stupidity and backwardness through satire. I'm pretty sure many Muslims would benefit from looking at themselves warts and all rather than throwing babyish tantrums, threatening violence or committing violence if their beliefs are ridiculed. Considering the general economic and social backwardness of the Islamic world, they should be looking in the mirror harder than most.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

All your references point to islamic organizations in the West, who give pro-forma statements of disapproval

The League of Arab States released a collective condemnation of the attack. Al-Azhar University also released a statement of denunciation, that violence was never appropriate regardless of "offence committed against sacred Muslim sentiments"

Once again, you do not help fight idiocy by promoting it.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Notice there has been no outcry from the mulsim community about this attack in france or any other, they lay silent and covert the next bunch of attackers lying in wait to strike.

Really?

Yes, really. All your references point to islamic organizations in the West, who give pro-forma statements of disapproval.

Um, let's refer back to your original statement, bolded above: "there has been no outcry from the mulsim community about this attack in france or any other. I showed that there has been. Then you tried to shift the goalposts.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Does anyone out there remember, The Life of Brian?

On the whole, Christianity complained, took in on the chin and moved on.

I pose this as an example of what has happened when mainstream religions other than Islam have faced satire/ criticism/ ridicule in the recent past.

It is not only the radical followers. Islam says it is different. The followers believe they are different

Islam IS different! We need to at least accept this as a starting point.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I was asking if there comparable mass rallies to the "Je suis Charlie" rallies in islamic countries.

Let's see after prayers today.

And the Middle East media, as this article points out, are complaining not about the murder...

Blinkered, reactionary, uninformed, opinion-based nonsense. Read the article.

but about a fictious backlash, which of course never happens.

Two mosques were shot at and a kebab shop bombed. Fictitious?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

The problem is not the "Islam" , the problem is The Jihadism, the military branch of a religion.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Qatari newspaper Al-Sharq denounced “extremists who pretended to avenge the Prophet Mohammed”

The Qatari newspaper Al-Sharq saves us a lot of time and argument.

These fanatic murderers aren't religious anything. They are deranged killers. Like rabid dogs consuming their sick vomit of hatred twisting their fossil brain material into slogans and chant while killing to satisfy their own delusions, these are not people of any religion.

Thank god so many in Muslim communities abhor the mentally ill who wear the costumes of faith like clowns on some psychopathic fairground of horrors. This isn't religion. And no sane person thinks it is.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The problem is that within Islam there is not yet any separation of church and state, and no proper inner checks and balances. The Ummah, the greater Muslim community, feels powerless to control their own fanatical elements and are openly afraid of them.

They should be more afraid of displeasing Allah, and not so much of the young and gullible radicals who genuinely believe they are acting as Allah's executioners.

Although there is a growing understanding among mainstream Muslims in many countries around the world regarding this weakness within Islam, early attempts at creating inner safety frameworks and making them stick have not always worked so far. It is in the interests of the radicals to blow apart any existing Islamic state. It is surely in the interests of humanity to hold fast and hold together.

Less than a month has passed and the world has already forgotten that last 'viral' message, "I'll ride with you". But I will say that I feel warmth and love for my Muslim friends. May Allah give you strength to do what is right.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

When Protestants were killing Catholics and vice versa in Northern Ireland, they weren't killing for Jesus.

They were killing for their own inadequate selves.

SUM (LOSER plus DOGMA plus ARMS [or keyboard]) = HERO COMPLEX.

Like pizza deliveryman Cherif Kouachi.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The real "radicals" in the Muslim communities would be the ones who are willing to state the fact that a reformation needs to take place within Islam so that these type of behaviors don't keep occuring. But those people would face more scrutiny from the Islamists because they would be seen as apostate, which is worse than being an infidel since an apostate is one who knows what they are supposed to do under Islam but refuses to do so.

That radical cleric from London who penned an opinion piece on why the West needs to understand that there is no such thing as Freedom of speech if it involves defacing Islam is what people need to really begin to understand and see what the world faces. They (he) dosen't see it as extreme, but as it should be, and that is why we will continue to have these problems. That issue needs to be resolved within the Muslim religion and I don't have a say in that. However, you pick up an AK-47 and aim it at me or some other instution that you don't like, I have an issue with that.I have seen many things that I don't like that poke fun and attack my Christian faith, and I may get upset but I don't go out and demand that they stop or get a gun and put an end to it.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Christianity is mocked all the time yet nothing like this goes on. These losers masquerading in Allah's name need to be wiped out and pronto,before the world becomes paralysed with fear.

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*“Terrorism has no religion,” said the front-page headline of Morocco’s Arab-language newspaper Ahdath Al-Maghribiya. “It is a crime that kills us all and that cannot be justified.”

Tunisia’s Assabah newspaper said “terrorism butchers freedom of expression and stabs Islam”.* I hope these Tunisians and other Muslims can keep up this anti violence message. It would be unfair to say only Muslims are engaged in terrorism, but this time in Paris, and last year in Canada and then Australia, oops, it is NOT POLITICALLY CORRECT to connect the terrorists dots??

0 ( +0 / -0 )

According the media, two gun men were third generation of northern African descendants granted for refugee by France authority. The problem of France, UK, Australia and US have many fundamentalist refugees who have become radicalised terrorists.

For example, Boston bombing brothers were refugees. Sydney cafe gunman was a refugee. London terrorists were refugee too. It is very questionable that whether humanitarian refugee intake is opening the gate of dam for flood of hateful extremists.

Japanese immigration is stricter and refugee intake is very low comparing with those nations. It is better for Japan for not sharing the cruel fate with those nations for offering the generosity to the killer immigrants.

According the cartoonist, better stand on the foot rather than kneeling on the ground. I prefer Japan is better poor without high level of immigration rather than becoming intolerant, violent and uncivilized society.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Islam is special. Islam has special needs. Its basic tenants need to be reformed. There are some trying very hard to do so. They have a long, uphill battle.

Yes, they do. And they need the support of their whole communities to win that battle.

Notice there has been no outcry from the mulsim community about this attack in france or any other, they lay silent and covert the next bunch of attackers lying in wait to strike.

Just as there was an outcry by the Muslims around the world after the barbaric killings of western hostages by IS, many Muslim organisations condemned this killing just hours after it happened.

Unfortunately, we cannot deny the fact that there are radical elements in every society and though I do not believe that islamophobia will spread in Europe after the attack in France, there might be a few isolated acts of hate speach, etc.

Thank god so many in Muslim communities abhor the mentally ill who wear the costumes of faith like clowns on some psychopathic fairground of horrors. This isn't religion. And no sane person thinks it is.

Thank god for that. Yet, the mentally ill make the news and since the perpetrators this time were obviously religiously motivated some people might still think that it is in fact religion. Fortunately, secular Europe is more than unlikely to take it out on the Muslim communities living there.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@ WilliB (AKA StormR)

In your 09:26AM post (a reply to Strangerland's posts, which in turn was a reply to StormR's 08:56AM post) you write

"I was asking if there comparable mass rallies to the "Je suis Charlie" rallies in islamic countries."

From how this is written, it sounds like you posted as StormR, logged out, and then logged in and posted as WilliB, forgetting you had changed identities.

I hope the JT mods look into this apparent case of internet 'sockpuppetry.'

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Very important for muslims who disapprove to make it known or there will be growing islamaphobia

0 ( +0 / -0 )

To suggest that these attacks have nothing to do with the nature of these people deeply held beliefs is politically correct pandering taken to dangerous extremes.

Im not suggesting every follower of islam or any other religion is capable of ,or responsible for these actions, however to simply write of every criticism simply as racist, or cultural persecution is not only dishonest but actually stops us from moving forward in anyway.

It isn't the public that are accusing these perpetrators of being muslim, it is the perpetrators themselves announcing, loudly and clearly, their actions are inspired and condoned in their interpretation of their chosen faith.

You may disagree with their interpretation, and actions, but as there is no method to substantively evaluate what is and isn't inline with a system that is entirely based on interpretation you can't say they are not what they claim to be, no matter how much you are appalled by it.

Granted, the larger majority of followers of most religions are fairly peaceful, however there are valid and important discussions to be had about not only the specific issues with some interpretations of Islam, when it comes to treatment of women, access to education, freedom of movement and association, freedom to leave islam, justice for victims and so on, not only in how they impact the individuals effected by it but fundamentally how some of ideas can clash with the very fabric of what most modern, free democratic societies are built upon.

There is another issue, which stretches beyond any one religion, what do we value as a species.

If you place anything before universal human rights, and laws based on and in substantive reality and evidence then we are going to have a very hard time moving forward.

Everyone is welcome to believe what they like, but it must never, ever be a the expense of another persons freedoms and rights.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Well they should control their crazies then, shouldnt they.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

I'll never fully understand why people embrace religions whose central doctrines were etched in primitive eras, but to each their own I guess. I'll particularly never understand how the fundamental elements of these religions literally implement the medieval dogmas contained in their scriptures, insisting that the core principles be upheld by all followers. Islamic extremism takes it a step further however and goes beyond its creed. They believe that Sharia law must be enforced in a global Islamic state. They believe in the absolute supremacy and authority of Islam and it is their duty to institute Sharia worldwide by whatever means necessary. It's a scourge on humankind and it has to be eradicated. The question is how?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

There are crazies in every religion and it is up to the good, moderate, people inside each religion to deal with the fringes of their groups.

This is true - but Islam is particular in its aggressive and often violent protests whenever there are any depictions of Mohammed. This reaction places the religion in direct collision with the "freedom of expression" espoused in western countries

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Just as a side thought.. as moronic as this islamophobia tag is.. for so many reasons on all sides.

Does there come a point where it isn't a phobia but reasonable to have some apprehension about certain doctrines?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Im not suggesting every follower of islam or any other religion is capable of ,or responsible for these actions, however to simply write of every criticism simply as racist, or cultural persecution is not only dishonest but actually stops us from moving forward in anyway.

It isn't the public that are accusing these perpetrators of being muslim, it is the perpetrators themselves announcing, loudly and clearly, their actions are inspired and condoned in their interpretation of their chosen faith.

The Westboro Baptist Church claims the same thing, that their actions and beliefs are condoned in their interpretation of their chosen faith. Are we to paint all Christians, and indeed Christianity as a whole, with the same brush then because of the interpretation by a fringe few?

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Everyone is welcome to believe what they like, but it must never, ever be a the expense of another persons freedoms and rights.

Aren't you telling Japan not to eat whales? I think West has become very arrogant, and it may have something to do with it.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Tributes paid to slain Muslim Paris cop. "Je suis Ahmed".

http://news.sky.com/story/1404574/tributes-to-muslim-officer-killed-by-terrorists

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The Westboro Baptist church is a fanatical sect in the US. On the other hand whenever Muhammad is portrayed you can see widespread protests in many countries. Freedom of speech to the west - a deadly insult to Muslims http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/01/07/3609072/what-muslims-really-believe-about-cartoons-of-muhammad/ This link shows that it is the Sunni Orthodox Muslims who have problems with depictions of Muhammad. Ironically Iran doesn't have any issues with this, being a mainly Shiite country

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I remember a British TV series called "Spitting Image" that took the mick out of every notable person... even God, yet no-one pulled out a Kalashnikov and gunned down the puppeteers and production team. It seems that certain religions have no sense of humour and will kill anyone having a go.

It's almost like the 50s where film-makers were afraid to show the face of an actor playing Jesus.

Islam needs to lighten up and learn to laugh at itself.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

whether muslim communities reject such extremists actions or trying to justify such extreme behaviours in some ways,, or whether we try to understand them when they say "religion of peace", i think the matter of the fact is that these actions are continuing and quite obviously unstoppable.

thinking about possible solutions therefore i think can only be possible if muslims themselves can be tolerant of others' ideas, because to me even those who seems highly educated, who are supposed to know the main causes and effects, are also seems intolerant, and unwilling to recognize the main causes of these acts of violence.

the only thing to expect is the rejection of these extremists by words alone, as if that will end this and will finally led to the adaptation of their belief system to western values -- which i think that adaptation will never be real. even when u are pointing out the main causes of the problem, then expect even the moderate or educated to point fingers to other religious texts (other than their own), which is quite out of topic in these cases.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

StrangerlandJan. 09, 2015 - 03:53PM JST The Westboro Baptist Church claims the same thing,

So, when was the last time any member of the loon Leftist fringe Westboro Baptist Church murdered anyone?

Will wait for you evidence......

StrangerlandJan. 09, 2015 - 03:53PM JST that their actions and beliefs are condoned in their interpretation of their chosen faith.

Westboro members are considered harmless pariahs that can be laughed at and their members have never killed anyone. Well, unless you can provide us with some proof that they have committed mass murders in the name of their beliefs or messiah.

Will again wait for your proof.

StrangerlandJan. 09, 2015 - 03:53PM JST Are we to paint all Christians, and indeed Christianity as a whole, with the same brush then because of the interpretation by a fringe few?

A few fringe? Have you been living in a closet or have you been sheltered in a leftist utopian shell? I can provide you with scores of atrocities that the religion of peace has committed in the West. Can you provide us with any crimes against humanity that Westboro nuts have committed?

You are trying to defend what should not be defended. The bodies keep piling up and your side keep trying to defend the murders.

It is high time that those clerics who are suppose to has sway in their own communities get their own under control before it is too late and the West starts booting them all out.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

@Joe

The Westboro church is "leftist"?

All I can do is laugh....

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Joe

I don't know how you'd define "leftist", but in my opinion, this bloke is clearly right-wing scum.

Which party he deigned to stand for is massively irrelevant. He's a right-wing nutter.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Middle East media fear growing Islamophobia after France attack

I for one hope the West opens it's eyes and realizes that it has a major problem on it's hands. Trying to appease and coddle folks that only wish to destroy their way of life and liberty is stupid. If people immigrate to a nation they are the one's that need to adapt to the customs of that nation. But, Liberals and their political correctness just doesn't get it.

Come next round of elections the Left will suffer more loses because of these attacks and it's policies and if it wants to blame someone all they need to do is look into a mirror.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

To put a stop on these heinous crimes, tighten screws on Mullahs at your local mosques.They are the problem. They are the one who teach literal interpretation of Quran and instill all these pure hatred against non muslims.

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So, when was the last time any member of the loon Leftist fringe Westboro Baptist Church murdered anyone?

Will wait for you evidence......

Where did I claim that they killed anyone? Are you having reading comprehension issues? Or mistaking my posts with someone else's?

What I did do however was point out the hypocrisy of judging the entire Muslim religion based on the fact that a small group interprets its teachings one way, while not judging all of the Christian religion based on the fact that a small group (the westbo baptist church) interprets Christianity the way they do.

A few fringe? Have you been living in a closet or have you been sheltered in a leftist utopian shell?

No. I'm just good at math, and don't panic. There are 1.5 billion Muslims. And there are a few terrorists. Percentage wise, they make up an extremely small percentage of the Muslim people. Or in other words, they are fringe.

You are trying to defend what should not be defended.

Innocent people who have done nothing wrong other than share a religion with people who would twist that religion to their own nefarious means should not be defended from ignorant bigotry? Sorry but I strongly disagree. Same as the moderate Muslims need to condemn the extremists, moderate non-Muslims need to condemn the unjustified bigotry against innocents.

The bodies keep piling up and your side keep trying to defend the murders.

This gets the award for the most ridiculous statement of the week. No one from the non-bigoted side has defended the murders anywhere. Either you have reading comprehension issuers, or a problem with rhetoric, but making up arguments to try to justify bigotry doesn't do anyone good anywhere.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

@Strangerland

Brilliant post. Thank you!

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Strangerland: No. I'm just good at math, and don't panic. There are 1.5 billion Muslims. And there are a few terrorists. Percentage wise, they make up an extremely small percentage of the Muslim people. Or in other words, they are fringe.

Yeah, they are fringe when you look at the numbers. But last I checked the fringe part of Christianity doesn't control parts of entire countries, carry out beheadings daily and impose religious law, openly recruit terrorists to kill innocents, and plan attacks in foreign lands. So keep talking about an "extremely small percentage" all you want. They are able to do incredible harm.

It seems all you're willing to do is go after people who want to paint all of Islam with the same brush. I don't support those people either, but if that's all you're willing to bring to the table then it's just your way of burying your head in the sand. There is something unique to Islam that is creating a path for these people, and I can say that without thinking all Muslims are terrorists. It's true that only a very small percentage of them take this path but it's real and it creates a situation where those who go down that path create tremendous violence.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@strangerland, no problem for defending your religion, or a great fan of such..that understandable,,but it is sad that you don't see the exact problem but will only try to defend it wherever possible..no one hates muslims or islam at all, that is not an issue, the question is are they going to solve the problem themselves, or only make it vanish as time passes by? it may be right to compare sometimes, but does that really have to do with the ending of the lives of 12 journalists, who are only doing nothing but communicating information to the public?

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Yeah, they are fringe when you look at the numbers. But last I checked the fringe part of Christianity doesn't control parts of entire countries, carry out beheadings daily and impose religious law, openly recruit terrorists to kill innocents, and plan attacks in foreign lands. So keep talking about an "extremely small percentage" all you want. They are able to do incredible harm.

I agree. The fringe is to be condemned, and ideally eradicated from the planet. They are not to be tolerated.

But I'm not sure what that has to do with my post.

It seems all you're willing to do is go after people who want to paint all of Islam with the same brush

What? So because I defend those who paint all of Islam with the same brush, you assume it's all I'm willing to do? Bit of a failure in logic innit?

@strangerland, no problem for defending your religion, or a great fan of such

I'm neither Muslim, nor a fan of any religion. The world would be a better place without any religion as far as I'm concerned. You seem to be mistaking my defense of my fellow man against unjustified bigotry for something else.

it is sad that you don't see the exact problem but will only try to defend it wherever possible..no one hates muslims or islam at all, that is not an issue

Are you kidding me? Have you not been reading this thread? There are people condemning Muslims and Islam all over the place.

the question is are they going to solve the problem themselves, or only make it vanish as time passes by?

You don't think they want to solve the problem? Do you have any idea of the number of muslims who are killed by terrorism as compared to westerners? There were 12 people killed in Paris the other day - a horrible number - but there were over 3 times that many Muslims killed in Yemen the same day by terrorism. The problem is way worse for the Muslims than it is for the Westerners.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Percentage wise, they make up an extremely small percentage of the Muslim people.

The figures I've seen suggest 20 percent (much higher in the middle east) believe death is the appropriate penalty for apostates. That is 20 percent that are terrorist sympathizers whether they will admit it or not. Not an extremely small percentage so yes there is a problem with Islam as it currently stands.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The figures I've seen suggest 20 percent (much higher in the middle east) believe death is the appropriate penalty for apostates. That is 20 percent that are terrorist sympathizers whether they will admit it or not.

People have the right to believe what they want, no matter how disgusting I think it is. If we are going to start policing people for their beliefs, then we need to start policing Christianity too, because there are a lot of oppressive beliefs in that religion. But I don't believe in thought police. So whether or not they believe something is only relevant if they act upon their thoughts.

The terrorists act upon those beliefs, and are to be condemned for doing so. But they are only a fringe, not all Muslims.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Stranger, et al

The fundamental problem with Islam is its fundamentals: it believes in jihad, unity of church and state, and martyrdom. Those are bad tenants, lead to the kind of things we see in the Muslim world, and must be reformed.

We in the West need to be supportive of the Reform movement in the Muslim world who recognize the truth in that last paragraph. We in the West make two mistakes regarding this:

Not recognizing that modern Islam has developmental problems. IOW, No, all religions are not the same. Islam is special.

Thinking we can beat the Islam out of the Muslim world by either reason, Christianity or bombs.

We cannot.

The only people who can bring about the necessary reforms in the Muslim world, are reform Muslims. They are the only people who have both the boots on the ground and the intellectual tool-kit to defeat the Islamists.

Balancing 1 and 2 is tricky. We in the West need to do both.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

People have the right to believe what they want, no matter how disgusting I think it is. If we are going to start policing people for their beliefs, then we need to start policing Christianity too, because there are a lot of oppressive beliefs in that religion. But I don't believe in thought police. So whether or not they believe something is only relevant if they act upon their thoughts

That creates interesting questions and situations. Lets say someone believes people who leaves the faith should be killed but can't bring themselves to kill themselves, now lets say they know someone who can bring themselves to do such a thing and is going to do such a thing but decides not to say anything to law enforcement about it simply because he or she shares the same belief. Should that person who doesn't inform law enforcement be charged? I mean they themselves didn't really "act" on their beliefs, they just had someone else do it for them, you could argue that by knowingly not intervening that they were "acting" on their beliefs.

The above scenario is where "charging" someone with their beliefs is not necessarily a bad idea, because it was there beliefs that prevented them from protecting another person from their attacker and even though they had nothing to do with the planning, logistics, and execution of the attack they knew it was going down and they could have done something to stop it but because of their beliefs they made the decision to do nothing.

The problem with beliefs is that when you get a large enough population that believes in the same thing it creates an environment where those who want to act on those beliefs wont' be charged or jailed for acting upon them and those who do know something is going to go down will do nothing or not intervene to stop it.

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JTDanMan

Stranger, et al

The fundamental problem with Islam is its fundamentals: it believes in jihad, unity of church and state, and martyrdom. Those are bad tenants, lead to the kind of things we see in the Muslim world, and must be reformed.

We in the West need to be supportive of the Reform movement in the Muslim world who recognize the truth in that last paragraph. We in the West make two mistakes regarding this:

1.Not recognizing that modern Islam has developmental problems. IOW, No, all religions are not the same. Islam is special.

Do you mean special like the kids in that special class at school ?

They bully everyone into submission, you know how to deal with bullies from the school days, that is what needs to be done here but on a much grander scale. They refuse education , the carrot wont work so it is to be the stick.

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The reformist newspaper Ebtekar said the rise of IS “which appears to be the result of the military actions of Western governments in Islamic countries, has given birth to the bloodiest terrorist operations.”

That is Orwellian doublespeak. The Western military involvement in Islamic countries today is the result of terrorist attacks on the West - starting with 911 but also on Madrid, London, Paris - among others. If that is the best excuse that 'reformist' newspapers in the Islamic world can come up with then they are lacking in any logical rationale for defending what is simply indefensible. This attack is admittedly based only on the perceived insult of their religious deity. That's it. No more idiotic excuses from the 'moderate' Muslim press.

Every newspaper in the world should be responding to this attack on the free press by publishing the same cartoons. How about it Japan Today? Do you believe in a free press or not?

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A progressive person will tell you that we need to sit down and talk to the terrorist to find out they are angry enough to try and kill anyone that disagrees with them. While normal humans would rather just end these psychos before they have a chance to kill.

Can you really have a logical conversation with a psychopath or will they just try and kill you? I would love it if a few of our Western Progressive thinking Politicians would go over to Syria and Iraq and try and ask ISIS' members this question.

I wonder if we could convince Hillary, Obama, De Blasio, Miliband, Hollande Feinstien and Pelosi to go and give ISIS and it's members a big Liberal hug!? Yeah, I think that if all our Western Liberal leaders would go to Syria and Iraq that would solve all the problems we have with radical Islam. They would also get one heck of a haircut!

scipantheistJan. 10, 2015 - 12:47AM JST *Percentage wise, they make up an extremely small percentage of the Muslim people.* The figures I've seen suggest 20 percent (much higher in the middle east) believe death is the appropriate penalty for apostates.

In France and other Western nations the percent of Muslims who support ISIS and their actions was/is from 16% to 26% of the population. While overall the percent of the Muslim world that supports terror is anywhere from 20-35% approve of the actions of those terrorist.

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf

http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/07/01/concerns-about-islamic-extremism-on-the-rise-in-middle-east/

That wouldn't be a problem if the survey was about a small group of people, but the survey shows that almost 300,000,000 Muslims support these kinds of attacks and that is what the problem is.

StrangerlandJan. 10, 2015 - 12:59AM JST People have the right to believe what they want, no matter how disgusting I think it is. If we are going to start policing people for their beliefs, then we need to start policing Christianity too, because there are a lot of oppressive beliefs in that religion.

Strangeland, you are preaching to the choir, most Western raised NORMAL human being believes just that. We believe that every human being has the right to say just about anything they wish. But, Islamic fanatic doesn't want folks to say or think anything that they feel is against their religion and they will KILL the people they deem as blasphemers and that is the problem.

Hope you get it, we aren't talking about folks who reject the evils of extremism, we are talking about the people that cloak themselves in it.

StormRJan. 10, 2015 - 07:50PM JST JTDanMan Stranger, et al The fundamental problem with Islam is its fundamentals: it believes in jihad, unity of church and state, and martyrdom. Those are bad tenants, lead to the kind of things we see in the Muslim world, and must be reformed.

Well stated and to the point, but he would rather run in circle with his eyes closed, fingers in his ears and screaming nanananana than actually admit that his position is wrong.

The Left will never admit it is wrong even when it is. They believe that if they scream enough you will get quiet and agree with them. But what they don't get is when we get quite it's not that we agree with them, it's because we think they are too childish to talk to.

WolfpackJan. 11, 2015 - 08:56AM JST The reformist newspaper Ebtekar said the rise of IS “which appears to be the result of the military actions of Western governments in Islamic countries, has given birth to the bloodiest terrorist operations." That is Orwellian doublespeak. The Western military involvement in Islamic countries today is the result of terrorist attacks on the West

Well said!

But, attempting to get a Liberal to see the fallacy of their point is mute, because they know they are wrong, but they would rather go down with the ship before admitting it.

lucabrasiJan. 09, 2015 - 11:31PM JST @Strangerland Brilliant post. Thank you!

A kettle complimenting a pot because it looks and acts exactly like it would, only problem they are the only ones that agree with each other, can we say self serving! LOL

BTW the only point you actually came up with that I found proper was the LRN. You are/were correct, the LRN is a Christian terror group that has committed crimes against humanity in the last 30 years. But, where your point came up short was that all you could come up was just one group. And the saddest part of your argument this group and other Christian terrorist groups have almost zero support or approval from Christians throughout the world. While ISIS, Al-Qaeda, HAMAS and the rest of the Islamic terrorist organizations have between 15 to 26% support of the Muslim world.

Hope you see the difference, but knowing your and Stangelands political beliefs, you won't. You will just try and make some more excuses.

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