Millions living in U.S. illegally targeted for possible deportation under Trump rules

There's a new sheriff in town. He's come to expel the illegal foreigners.

This is a completely inhumane and barbaric treatment of our fellow human beings, it is a sin, and against all conscionable behavior of a civilized society. Trump, his supporters, and all those who aid in this round up will wear the indelible stain of bigotry and hatred for all times. Only a short time ago I was proud to be an American. Nothing can be further from that sentiment now, and I am completely ashamed to claim this America as my own. This country will pay dearly for this folly and it will deserve what it gets.

Immigrants are people who apply for entry and follow the procedure known as immigration. All stable countries have immigration and it is controlled and enforced without apology. America is a country of immigrants and immigrants are always welcome. Illegal aliens are people who dash across the desert or use a tourist visa to get into the country and then just disappear. These people are not immigrants. They are illegal aliens. They are committing a crime.

Sam nailed it.

These people are not immigrants. They are illegal aliens. They are committing a crime.

How would you like it if squatters moved into your home, uninvited, expected you to pay for their health care, babies, schools for their children. You'd want them removed, right?

People employing them should be fined $100K per incident or 2x the illegal worker's income, whichever is higher. Employers should risk their homes, businesses, future by hiring anyone here illegally. I don't know how to stop the flood without turning off the work availability.

I don't understand why Trump gets so much hate for this. He is only attempting to enforce an already existing law that essentially says "don't cut in line" yet people cry like he's some kind of monster.

Re-read what samwatters wrote.

This is a completely inhumane and barbaric treatment of our fellow human beings

Seriously ? Try violating traffic rules in any other country with no license, no insurance, a vehicle registered to someone else if at all, most likely barely able to read the signs and see what humane feels like. Or just have your life ruined by getting into an accident with such a driver leaving the scene in the U.S.

Those mega-corporations that run private prisons are champing at the bit. A lot of money is flowing into GOP coffers now, no doubt.

I really don't have any problem deporting the ones convicted of a crime or in jail awaiting trail or similar. Obama actually did that quite a bit and Trump has a long way to go to catch up. That usually surprises Republicans in the bubble.

But there is a point where extracting illegal immigrants blindly ends up costing us in other areas. You can say goodbye to anyone illegal interacting with police, even if they have information about a crime. There's going to be an information blackout in some areas and it's going to hurt the police's ability to do their job.

You're going to have situations where the collateral damage done to the family, some of them Americans, can cause more harm than it solves. A guy gets pulled over for a traffic ticket and is sent back to Mexico and his American girlfriend and her kids now have to somehow pay rent on the 1st. That stuff doesn't just go away.

Lots of moving parts.

They're still not saying how they will know or suspect someone is illegal. Police officers are not immigration officers. They don't have the tools or the training. The new immigration officers won't be pulling people over for traffic tickets and then checking their status, I'm guessing. So what will they be going off of to start an investigation?

Let me guess....there probably won't be a lot of white guys questioned about whether they are a citizen or not. Not many blacks, either. Legal American Hispanic citizens might want to find some meditation techniques to get through the constant questioning about their birthplace, tho. And if you support that then surely you'd support patting down every loner white guy in school for fear of a shooting....but letting minorities walk on by.

I don't have a problem with the deportation of illegal aliens for the most part, but I do have a problem when it splits up families. If the children are legal and the parents aren't, and they throw the parents out, it's unreasonable.

And one thing that Americans are going to have to come to terms with is that there is going to be a labor problem in some industries, and there are going to be price increases for many products. If those are worth it for an ideological purpose, then all the power to them. But the people pushing for the mass deportations won't have any place to complain about prices when that time comes.

I'm a hardliner on this as well. The LAW of the US on illegal immigration is being enforced. Bleeding hearts can't comprehend it and get their panties in a twist, while in many other countries deal with illegal immigration just as harshly. I may agree with some of the things Trump is trying to do, I don't agree with how he does it. As everyone else here has said, If you're here legally, welcome to the US. If you're here illegally, you're going to be prosecuted for breaking US law regardless.

@CrazyJoe. There is a fine line between being compassionate and responsible, and being blindly compassionate and ignorantly naïve. No matter what you think, you never put the needs of foreign nationals before your own citizens in your own country. Don't be an enabler, or you'll end up encouraging more to break the law because its "easier" than doing it legally.

I'm not a Trump supporter but when was it suddenly okay to break the rules? You are not allowed to overstay a visa, it's a condition of getting one. It's like expecting the bank not to reclaim your house if you stop payments on it... you don't follow the rules then you can't get a free pass.

Agree with samwatters.

And Strangerland, in cases where illegal immigrants came to the US to have an anchor baby, then they are basically committing fraud in order to stay there. If the parents are deported, they are responsible for any children who are still legally minors so morally they should take their children with them when they go. That way the families are not spilt up and the parents are doing what parents should do anyway - take responsibility for their kids and not selfishly use them as a means to an end. That's not a humanitarian issue, it's a personal responsibility one.

And Strangerland, in cases where illegal immigrants came to the US to have an anchor baby, then they are basically committing fraud in order to stay there. If the parents are deported, they are responsible for any children who are still legally minors so morally they should take their children with them when they go. That way the families are not spilt up and the parents are doing what parents should do anyway - take responsibility for their kids and not selfishly use them as a means to an end.

Yeah, well some of of have compassion. Others don't. Life isn't always black and white.

Why isn't there a flow of illegal immigrants from Canada/European and Asian countries?

That's because the standard of living is higher.

US is better off uplifting the standard of living in Mexico. Make working in Mexico a more attractive place than being an illegal in the US.

Building a wall is not going to stop illegals especially if you make border countries being economic hellholes by stopping making business with them.

As for illegals with criminal offenses, yes, they don't deserve to stay. It is probably the only point I would agree on.

The administration also plans to expand immigration jail capacity. Currently Homeland Security has money and space to jail 34,000 immigrants at a time.

Newly built concentration camps would thrill Trump's devoted followers.

Strangerland, my well of compassion runs pretty dry for people who try to game the system. People who want to migrate to another country should go through the proper channels and wait their turn. If they jump the queue, people who do the right thing have a right to be angry and deport them. If you entered a country illegally or overstayed a visa and set up a home, and perhaps had a child for the purpose of staying there , do you still think it would be unreasonable for the host nation to deport you?

I think Honest Dictator said it pretty well above:

@CrazyJoe. There is a fine line between being compassionate and responsible, and being blindly compassionate and ignorantly naïve. No matter what you think, you never put the needs of foreign nationals before your own citizens in your own country. Don't be an enabler, or you'll end up encouraging more to break the law because its "easier" than doing it legally.

Some comments make the point that rules and laws are already being enforced.

More telling are statistics towards the end of the article: needing 15,000 more patrolmen and agents, two out of three failing polygraph tests, only 34,000 places currently for keeping interned people at a given time, and hundreds of thousands (millions?) of people to be administered and herded eventually out of the country. Then obvious things such as available money and manpower to service big expansion of all of this.

Maybe Trump's body of disenfranchised outcast population support base can be drafted for or against their wills to 'help'.

Otherwise, good LUCK with the logistics and economics of that situation.

Now the feeling-less aspects are dealt with we can concentrate on the obvious ethical aspects.

Anyway, kicking immigrants is always a winner and not just in the US (Australia is pretty bad too, and Britain) - after all, immigrants don't vote.

Strangerland, my well of compassion runs pretty dry for people who try to game the system. People who want to migrate to another country should go through the proper channels and wait their turn. If they jump the queue, people who do the right thing have a right to be angry and deport them.

Damn them for trying to improve their position in life. Damn them for being born on the wrong piece of dirt. Damn them to hell!

If you entered a country illegally or overstayed a visa and set up a home, and perhaps had a child for the purpose of staying there , do you still think it would be unreasonable for the host nation to deport you?

Yes.

Damn them for trying to improve their position in life. Damn them for being born on the wrong piece of dirt. Damn them to hell!

Damn them for jumping the queue. There are legal means. But the fact remains that wealthy countries can't just open the borders and let everyone in. Or if they did, they'd have to dismantle the welfare state. You can't ave open borders and a welfare state co-existing for long, or the whole system would collapse and you'd turn the destination countries into the places they left in the first place.

If you entered a country illegally or overstayed a visa and set up a home, and perhaps had a child for the purpose of staying there , do you still think it would be unreasonable for the host nation to deport you?

Yes.

Why? Why should you be given special treatment if other people have to wait years to get into the country of choice without breaking the law to do so?

Now we are going to hire Trump supporters to do all the hard work these illegals have been doing.

Somebody please Dump Trump before he destroys the rest of the "Great America" we still have.

Damn them for jumping the queue. There are legal means.

Not for many people. For example it's extremely difficult for Canadians to get visas in the US, without getting married.

But the fact remains that wealthy countries can't just open the borders and let everyone in.

Which has nothing to do with the compassion of not separating families.

Or if they did, they'd have to dismantle the welfare state.

America is hardly a welfare state.

@CrazyJoe,

Take a breath. Sorry you are wrong.

Why? Why should you be given special treatment if other people have to wait years to get into the country of choice without breaking the law to do so?

Because we're all humans struggling to survive on this rock floating through space. And you never know when you'll need that compassion you are so adamant about not giving. Personally I see splitting up families as more egregious than living in a country without a piece of paper that allows them to.

. Personally I see splitting up families as more egregious than living in a country without a piece of paper that allows them to.

On a practical level alone there are only civil prison facilities and immigration judges for tens of thousands more detainees at most. I would quarrel with your definition of compassion when these people are being trafficked into the US for in many cases for drug, sexual or labor exploitation but be that as it may Trump is not going to be splitting up families unless there is violent crime involved.

Damn them for jumping the queue. There are legal means.

Not for many people. For example it's extremely difficult for Canadians to get visas in the US, without getting married.

Specious reasoning. So if they can't enter or stay legally, then it's OK to enter or stay illegally?

But the fact remains that wealthy countries can't just open the borders and let everyone in.

Which has nothing to do with the compassion of not separating families.

Of course it does. If the parents hadn't entered illegally in the first place, then they would't have created the problem. America (or any other country outside their country of birth) doesn't owe them residency or citizenship. Nobody is stopping the children from leaving with their parents.

Or if they did, they'd have to dismantle the welfare state.

America is hardly a welfare state.

It's well on the way. http://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-97.html

And you seem to have forgotten my final question. Or can't answer it.

Specious reasoning. So if they can't enter or stay legally, then it's OK to enter or stay illegally?

I was refuting your point that there are 'legal means'. Often there are not.

Of course it does. If the parents hadn't entered illegally in the first place, then they would't have created the problem. America (or any other country outside their country of birth) doesn't owe them residency or citizenship.

Which is where compassion comes in.

Nobody is stopping the children from leaving with their parents.

No, but you're talking of deporting the parents of American citizens. So the kids can stay in the country of their citizenship, or leave with their parents, or get split up.

Anyways, we're going to go in circles here. You obviously don't have the compassion, I do. I can't make you feel compassion any more than you can make me stop.

And you seem to have forgotten my final question. Or can't answer it.

Or did answer it. Scroll up a little.

Anyone living in any country without permission (there are immigration laws) should be expelled. Yes, that includes Japan.

Apologies Strangerland, you'd posted your last answer while I was still bashing on the keyboard ;-)

@pointview Take a breath. Sorry you are wrong.

Please tell what the Nashi perspective is on this. I hope the keyboard brigade's not just been instructed to use social media and online boards to throw more fuel on long burning fires in attempts to keep 'westerners' feuding among themselves. I have to give credit, though, it has been effective: the feuds are getting worse.

Russia, along with other foreign invaders including the US, has taken part in attacking areas of Syria. Russia's doing this to help its own oligarchs and their supporters. How many refugees from Syria and other places has Russia taken in? What assistance is it giving those whose areas have been affected by Russia's military involvement?

@Strangerland Specious reasoning. So if they can't enter or stay legally, then it's OK to enter or stay illegally?

I was refuting your point that there are 'legal means'. Often there are not.

And if there are no legal means, then they can't enter or stay. Simple.

This is a completely inhumane and barbaric treatment of our fellow human beings,

Absolutely not, anyone that breaks the law of entering a sovereign nation and commits a crime should be arrested or deported.

it is a sin, and against all conscionable behavior of a civilized society. Trump, his supporters, and all those who aid in this round up will wear the indelible stain of bigotry and hatred for all times.

No, places like California, Denver, NY, and Florida, Sanctuary cities all have out of control crime and a large portion of those crimes are committed by illegals and many of them are visa overstayers, multiple offenders, sexual predators, should not be in this country or any other country for that matter. Glad Trump did this, finally.

Only a short time ago I was proud to be an American. Nothing can be further from that sentiment now, and I am completely ashamed to claim this America as my own. This country will pay dearly for this folly and it will deserve what it gets.

I'm more than ever proud to be an American, wouldn't want to be nothing else and I'm glad we finally have a president that cares and puts America and Americans first. We have suffered far too long from the left and their disastrous policies, particularly California has become the slum State of the union and I'm almost ashamed to tell people I was born there. But now I see a glimmer of hope and hope they go around and get these people. At the same time, this new order doesn't include the kids from Obama's DACA program and that's also a great sign that Trump is NOT out to just throw illegal Aliens out. This new order targets the illegal criminals, the AP so conveniently forgets to mention that, but we are talking about the MSM so I'm not surprised they spun this as an assault on innocent illegal aliens. It is not.

Apologies Strangerland, you'd posted your last answer while I was still bashing on the keyboard ;-)

No worries, it happens.

And if there are no legal means, then they can't enter or stay. Simple.

Well, they shouldn't. But sometimes they do. Which brings me back to my point that I think splitting up families is more egregious than the fact that the person is in the country illegally.

or simply having crossed the border illegally.>

This is the problem right here. Illegally crossing the border is a CRIME and is the only crime necessary to have been committed in order to justify deportation. Yet the media always wants to downplay that by using words like only or simply

If kids, take them with you back to your home. The actions of parents sometimes have consequences to their children, the kids should be happy that their parents are just being deported and not imprisoned.

"Crossing the border illegally is a criminal offense,...."

Yes it is, and it's a global norm, including in Japan, S. Korea and Singapore. Why the double standard when it comes to Western countries?

and why does the article headline have to say under Trump rules? No, these are not Trump's rules this is EXISTING LAW.

and why does the article headline have to say under Trump rules? No, these are not Trump's rules this is EXISTING LAW.

Yes, but then if the media did that, that would give Trump and the existing immigration laws credibility, why would they do that?

I see compassion at work by a country installing an immigration program that allows immigrants to follow a path of legal steps that leads to full citizenship. I also see compassion at work for those same immigrants who suffer money, time, separation from friends and families and still adhere to the right side of the law, when those who "jump the queue" are prosecuted accordingly. I don't see compassion when criminals knowingly break the law, prey on the consciouses of the charitable, find loopholes in the law and exploit it (anchor babies).

Fair enough. I see compassion as not breaking up families, when their biggest crime was being born on the wrong dirt, and coming to another dirt.

Difference of opinion.

CNN headline: Trump admin sets stage for mass deportations

Actual article contents: potentially massive expansion/ will likely continue/ may have family members who are legal US residents or citizens

DHS response:

DHS officials say the policies mostly enforce existing law and won't lead to an immediate massive round-ups of undocumented immigrants. "We're not going to start changing this today, it's not going to start happening tomorrow," the official said of an expansion of who is eligible for expedited deportation. "You will not see folks rounded up or anything of the sort."

Nice job of the media in getting everyone fearful and ready to protest the MASS DEPORTATIONS in the headline. yet, there is no evidence that anything of the sort will happen, that is even proven within their own article.

I agree, but it's also asinine for the media to conjure up a lie that because Trump wants to protect the country and advocates for LEGAL IMMIGRATION it's somehow morphed into a racial issue because they are from a 3rd world, darker... That they've broken the law by entering the country illegally doesn't come across anyone's mind, we just HAVE to take them in and be compassionate and the answer is, "we do not and should not." If it's legally, No problem, if it's illegally, then it comes with a high price, those are the risks that come with entering a country illegally.

If it is just a matter of dirt, there are plenty of other places that have dirt besides the United States. Why does it HAVE to be the USA? Why MUST the USA accept illegals when most other countries are allowed to imprison and deport them?

Personally I see splitting up families as more egregious than living in a country without a piece of paper that allows them to.

I do too. Send the kids back with the parents to their home country - I bet their is family there missing them. How could you split up a family in that way?

I'd like to amend the Constitution to prevent any child born of either parent illegally residing in the USA from gaining automatic citizenship too. Other countries do this. Would like to see citizenship become a formal choice which requires some effort to achieve too. A minimal civics test like naturalized citizens take required for adults.

It isn't like the USA is the single best country in the world. There are lots and lots of options. Japan, for example.

Personally I see splitting up families as more egregious than living in a country without a piece of paper that allows them to.

I have zero sympathy for people breaking the law, that doesn't mean I am less sympathetic, but you have to draw the line somewhere, if you don't and get emotional every time someone breaks the law and thinks they have a right to enter the country whatever their social status is, you will have complete social anarchy, which is what is happening all over Europe and the US..

If the law states that deportation is justified for persons found guilty of overstaying their visas or entering the USA illegally then why all the drama here. Everyone keeps calling them immigrants when in fact they are illegal immigrants plain and simple. The argument about splitting up families is silly. The children born in the USA can get a US passport and follow their parent (s) into Mexico or whichever country they came from and stay united. Those deported can apply to get a entry visa and do it the correct way with paperwork and not sneaking into the USA in an illegal manner.

Who cares if it splits up families? Those who entered illegally are at fault. Their SO for getting involved with the illegal. They are welcome to take their family with them.

No one is saying their side of dirt is the wrong side.

That's what borders essentially boil down to. 'You weren't born on our dirt, so you don't get to be here'.

I don't know if you're doing it deliberately or not, but the far left has invented a style of speech that furtively puts words in the mouths of others.

I'm hardly far-left. I'm to the left of center, but more centrist than leftist.

Saying things like "damn them for being born on the wrong dirt" is a specific tactic that seeks to impose your morality, and legitimizes their criminal act of illegally crossing the border or overstaying their visa, and criminalizes those who want to see the law upheld.

I agree. I feel my morality is correct. And in your rant about language, you use the words criminalize those who want to see the law upheld, whereas I never said anything about criminalizing said people. So it seems you're guilty of that which you are trying to complain about me doing.

And I doubt Canada qualifies as the "wrong side" in the way that Mexico does, but you're trying to say it does qualify as such.

For the discussion at hand - it does. Canadians cannot easily emigrate to the USA - they weren't born on USA dirt, so they were born on the wrong dirt.

I have zero sympathy for people breaking the law, that doesn't mean I am less sympathetic

Umm... I think you need to re-read what you just wrote.

"Millions living in U.S. illegally targeted for possible deportation under Trump rules"

Yea!

Here we go...

Trump administration increases deportation guidelines

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGScCKvgbVk

If I committed any offenses in Japan on top of overstaying my visa or having entered the country illegally, I would surely get my behind deported. And to that everyone would agree because I'm the one who broke the law. But do it in USA and try to get the laws to punish those who broke it and lo and behold.

Many strong opinions above, and often from strange bedfellows - illegal immigration is that type of topic, one which even those who have landed on one side or the other can find sympathy with their counterparts. Two points: practical (and what it means to be America) and strategic.

Of course the US has the right to throw out illegal immigrants; the mechanisms might give one pause. ICE currently has room for some 36,000 detainees/day; the plan is to increase that to 80,000, and more may be likely (multi-hundred thousand concentration camps are not unthinkable now). Previously, only illegals caught within 100 miles of the border and within two weeks were returned to their country of entry (= Mexico); the area has been vastly expanded as has the time frame, to two years (e.g., a Guatemalan apprehended in Nevada who entered the US up to two years ago could now be dumped back in Mexico). Also, as many have noted above, illegal entry is now a criterion for deportation regardless of how law-abiding and productive the person has been. One may support these measures or oppose them, but the former undeniably removes a major claim America has always had to be a "special" nation. Our moral claim is now on the level of Japan.

That, of course, may be a fair price to pay depending on one's philosophical views. More strategically, the Trump administration seems to want to keep the cake that it is currently having. GDP can grow due to three factors: a rise in population; people working longer; and increased productivity. Government has no control over the last and little over the middle - as for the former, US population natural growth is flat - all is due to immigration. Secondary effects also need to be considered. Some may be positive - retail and construction wages may rise, for example; others may be negative - some industries (particularly agriculture and food processing) may find securing an adequate workforce, causing unnecessary curtailment of production. Then their are the costs: a wall, holding facilities, enforcement - we're talking perhaps a 100 billion here.

Now, Ryan and his cohorts are striving to use "dynamic scoring" to achieve their tax reform aims, and part of this is a pie-in-the-sky projection of some 3.5% growth rate over the next decade - this would allow them to pretend that reducing taxes on the 1% would not reduce federal revenue. They are shooting themselves in the foot with the above. Ryan also wants to curtail spending - again, foot-shooting. Trump's policies towards Mexico (dumping people across the border, restricting trade) will only serve to depress the Mexican economy, thus encouraging more illegal immigration - foot-shooting.

It is a complicated situation, and I do have a certain amount of sympathy with those who do not agree with me. I just wonder if they have completely thought the situation through.

I suppose this explains why a British Jr. High teacher who happens to be Muslim and named Mohammad was recently denied entry while accompanying students on a school trip to the U.S.

He was born and raised in the UK, has a valid UK passport and a valid visa.

DHS is making America less safe by angering a population of 1.7 billion Muslims and creating radical sympathizers.

As far as these new policies, there is no budget to pay for the additional 15,000 agents, which at a minimum will cost a billion dollars a year, let alone the facilities. Plus, a huge hiring ramp up will mean they are hiring the least qualified people to meet the quota.

Currently, two of every three applicants for Customs and Border Protection jobs fail polygraph exams

Polygraph tests have no scientific basis and are meaningless; they should be scrapped. See antipolygraph.org for more detaiis.

As far as these new policies, there is no budget to pay for the additional 15,000 agents, which at a minimum will cost a billion dollars a year, let alone the facilities.

Not a problem. The Republicans are only fiscally conservative when it's a democratic administration, and they're in charge now, so they won't throw a fuss.

I'm hardly far-left. I'm to the left of center, but more centrist than leftist.

Come again????

If the law states that deportation is justified for persons found guilty of overstaying their visas or entering the USA illegally then why all the drama here. Everyone keeps calling them immigrants when in fact they are illegal immigrants plain and simple. The argument about splitting up families is silly. The children born in the USA can get a US passport and follow their parent (s) into Mexico or whichever country they came from and stay united. Those deported can apply to get a entry visa and do it the correct way with paperwork and not sneaking into the USA in an illegal manner.

Bingo!

and when the costs of fruits and vegetables skyrocket, and when restaurant meals increase, and when restaurants will have to close because they can't find enough workers, and when roads and buildings can't be constructed, and when all the little things that get taken care of by illegal immigrants don't get done, those hillbillies who are rooting for this will be crying in their budweisers. most americans are clueless as to how good they have it BECAUSE illegal workers keep the prices of everything down. and they do the work that no one wants to do in construction and restaurants.

and don't tell me that merican workers will pick up the slack. mericans think they are too good to go and pick veggies and fruit. they are too good to wash dishes and bus tables. they are too good to mow lawns. that's part of the reason why illegal immigrants have work.

"....when restaurants will have to close because they can't find enough workers,"

US businesses that can't survive without paying Third World wages don't deserve to be in business. Good riddance.

As someone else pointed out these are not "Trump's Rules" - this is U.S. law, enacted long before Trump was even a known entity.

I understand completely the arguments that people want to make a better life, however laws are being broken. I am an American expat and I would rather not pay taxes in the U.S., however it is the law. If I choose to just disregard the law there will be consequences.

Now the Mexican government is complaining to the U.S. that we are actually enforcing our own laws. I find this ridiculous.

There are plenty of things to go after Trump on - this is not one of them.

@Nakanoguy - Not sure where you are from but I know plenty of "mericans" (I happen to be an American) who do not think they are too good at all to mow lawns, etc. Your argument seems to be that we should go ahead and allow certain laws to be broken so labor can be obtained cheaply and we can all have cheap food.

and when the costs of fruits and vegetables skyrocket, and when restaurant meals increase, and when restaurants will have to close because they can't find enough workers, and when roads and buildings can't be constructed, and when all the little things that get taken care of by illegal immigrants don't get done

Presumably, this apocalyptic scenario is exactly the sort of thing that would spur congress to reform and expand the immigration system in order to make it easier for more low wage workers to enter the US legally?

The fact that current illegal immigrants are ensuring that this crisis will never come to a pass is also why there is no urgent incentive for reform. It's a vicious circle and we need to look at both sides. Illegality is never the answer to anything in my opinion.

Exactly! you remove all the illegals and offer the jobs they are doing to citizens from the pool of 52 million people who receive public assistance from the government (Food stamps, housing, welfare, etc) Then if the paycheck doesnt support anyone wanting to do those jobs you create a work visa type program for people from other countries to be vetted to come work in the USA to do these jobs (same as they do for the H1 visas for non immigrant specialty workers)

@M3M3M3 - your post is quite sensible. I am in the middle and I know many people like me who feel compassion for people that want to go over to the U.S. to make a better life. I do not blame these people personally for doing this. I blame the system for this. There are laws, and laws should be enforced. As Blacklabel pointed out - follow the law - and make appropriate modifications to the law to adjust for the changing times.

There are some people in the U.S. that seem to see the rights of those in the country illegally trumping (no pun intended) the rights of U.S. citizens. Take for example the article below where police are no longer allowed to "high five" kids coming to school for fear of offending those in the country illegally. I find this beyond ridiculous....

http://freebeacon.com/issues/police-dept-cancels-high-five-friday-schools-because-some-students-uncomfortable/

In other cases there are states allowing in state tuition for illegal immigrants. My cousin's son is starting university this year and is going to a university outside his home state as it offers specifically what he wishes to study. My cousin must pay out of state tuition (he is not rich) and his wife is taking on a 2nd job to help fund their child's education. This is downright wrong.

With respect to Mexico (and I know this issue is not limited to Mexico); it is an oil rich nation with a huge gap between the wealthy and the poor. Perhaps Mexico should consider reforms internally to address these issues rather than complaining when the U.S. wants to enforce our own laws. I see this as the Mexican elites wishing to move the problems to the U.S. rather than address the issues at home.

The can has been kicked down the road long enough on this issue. Maybe out of this some useful reforms will come (for example I hear Trump is compromising and has agreed to allow the "dreamers" to stay in the U.S.).

Again - I am not a Trump supporter and in my opinion this is not much of an issue with Trump than it is with both parties of the U.S. government ignoring this issue for decades.

Again - I am not a Trump supporter and in my opinion this is not much of an issue with Trump than it is with both parties of the U.S. government ignoring this issue for decades.

The issue hasn't even been ignored for a single decade. A bill that sought to deal with the problem, that had bipartisan support in the senate, was blocked from being discussed by GOP leaders: http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/320069-gop-leadership-threatens-the-partys-future-by-blocking-immigration-reform

And this was just a few years ago.

@Strangerland - perhaps ignore is not the correct word. Nothing has been done about this....by either party.....I was also against the Democrats proposal (although I agree with Democrats on most or nearly all social issues) as it included amnesty for nearly 11 million people in the U.S. illegally (including a path to citizenship) in spite of the fact laws were broken.

I always enjoy your posts (in a good way) as they are generally well thought out. We agree on some issues and disagree on others. This one I guess we just disagree. I think you are not from the U.S. - I am curious how your home country handles this type of issue (unless it is not a problem due to geography).

I had an interesting conversation with Japanese friends of mine about this. They were trying to tell me Americans are racist or bad for wanting to enforce immigration laws. I asked them how they would feel if people were entering Japan in the same way day after day - the conversation ceased immediately.

I am curious how your home country handles this type of issue (unless it is not a problem due to geography).

I have criticisms of my homeland's dealing with incidents as well, so I think it's more relevant as to what I feel. I gave my opinions earlier in the thread, but it was much, much earlier, so I'll repost them here:

I don't have a problem with the deportation of illegal aliens for the most part, but I do have a problem when it splits up families. If the children are legal and the parents aren't, and they throw the parents out, it's unreasonable.

@Strangerland - I agree that splitting up families is a bad deal. It is not always simple. There are cases where parents bring kids to the U.S., knowing they are doing this illegally, and then when someone wishes to enforce the law and deport the parent(s) people blame the U.S. for enforcing the law when this is actually the fault of the parents for knowingly violating the law. Maybe it would be more reasonable to deport everyone...BUT... on the other hand if the U.S. is the only country these kids have known then yes it is a bit harsh. Also if I were the parents in some of the similar situations these people are in and had to feed my own kids....I would do the same.

In the end however those that are ultimately responsible are the people who entered the U.S. illegally and knowingly brought their kids into this situation.

I also need to ask....what exactly are the countries of origin of these people doing to alleviate the situation in their home country? In the case of Mexico they call the U.S. racist for wanting to enforce the laws of the U.S. while on the other hand doing very little to help the poor in their own country.

Somewhere this cycle has to stop and as stated before maybe one good thing that may come out of Trump's presidency is a solution (not necessarily initiated by or created by Trump) to this long standing problem that exists in my home country.

There is a refugee camp in Africa in the dessert somewhere which has 350,000 Refugees. Some children are 4 generation in this camp. A mother arrives with child 5 year old, 29 years ago. That child of 5 year old, is now a man of 35. his mother has die. He now has a daughter of 14 year old and is pregnant. This Refugee has been waiting for some Country to take him and his family in. Now I think I would of try the illegal way after 10 years of waiting around. No this bloke been on the books for 30 years!. You wonder why there is illegal aliens which they are now classed. I called them We got it so lucky.

I suppose this explains why a British Jr. High teacher who happens to be Muslim and named Mohammad was recently denied entry while accompanying students on a school trip to the U.S.

Well.. his name wasn't even Mohammed but Juhel Miah. However, as you say, he is British and does not have dual nationality.

“Juhel Miah was with a party from Llangatwg comprehensive who travelled initially to Iceland en route to New York last week. Mr Miah boarded the onward flight in Reykjavik on 16 February but was escorted from the aircraft by security personnel. While the school trip proceeded as planned, Mr Miah’s removal from the flight left pupils and colleagues shocked and distressed.

“The local authority understands that Mr Miah was refused permission by the United States authorities to fly to New York, despite being issued with a valid visa for travel. Mr Miah is a popular and respected teacher at Llangatwg comprehensive school. He is a Welsh Muslim.

“We are appalled by the treatment of Mr Miah and are demanding an explanation. The matter has also been raised with our local MP.

“No satisfactory reason has been provided for refusing entry to the United States – either at the airport in Iceland or subsequently at the US embassy in Reykjavik. Mr Miah attempted to visit the embassy but was denied access to the building. Understandably he feels belittled and upset at what appears to be an unjustified act of discrimination.”

Classic fake headline, the headline should be "Millions living illegally in the U.S. legally targeted for possible deportation under new rules".

Exactly! you remove all the illegals and offer the jobs they are doing to citizens from the pool of 52 million people who receive public assistance from the government (Food stamps, housing, welfare, etc) Then if the paycheck doesnt support anyone wanting to do those jobs you create a work visa type program for people from other countries to be vetted to come work in the USA to do these jobs (same as they do for the H1 visas for non immigrant specialty workers)

Seems reasonable and makes perfect sense to me. 100% agreed!

...offer the jobs they are doing to citizens from the pool of 52 million people who receive public assistance from the government (Food stamps, housing, welfare, etc)

I can agree with that. In fact, it should be required for those on assistance sans job (not the fast food/Walmart types) - most of these are clustered in Appalachian former coal mining towns and in the South. Require them to move where their labor can be utilized or no more handouts. Doing so would not only bring a logical end to their communities, it would also provide a platform for their offspring to achieve something greater. It would have to be compulsive, though - shifting former coal miners and their wives to crop harvesting, food processing, and hotel housekeeping will not be easy. The first step is to end public assistance to these freeloaders.

or simply having crossed the border illegally.

The key word, that the writer tries to downplay is "illegally". If someone is in any country illegally they should be deported if caught.

If the children are legal and the parents aren't, and they throw the parents out, it's unreasonable.

So you believe they should get around the laws just by getting someone pregnant? Should a bank robber be let go if they have a spouse and children that will be hurt financially if the robber goes to jail?

The key word, that the writer tries to downplay is "illegally". If someone is in any country illegally they should be deported if caught.

Even going by the latest Trump guidance Dreamers and parents of US citizens are safe, at least for now. He is not going to want to hurt the kids. Where would they go while their parents were awaiting custody or immigration hearings, anyway ? There aren't enough foster families in the country to accommodate the logistical nightmare of a mass deportation scenario.

What a ridiculous article.

THere's a complete difference between a person who forgets to renew a visa, and someone who has been in a country with no visa for years.

And crossing the border without permission? Sounds like a big deal to me.

Just a traffic violation? How many have you have gone to another country knowing you had no visa, whether you crossed the border by night, or went in on a tourist visa and just stayed for months or years and then went around driving?

People are making out Trump and the US are almost Satanic - but, most people in the world understand that you need a visa to live in a country.

Try applying for a drivers license in Japan without proper "documentation".

How many people know how many people Obama deported? And where were the protests there.

Fancy....a country wanting to insist on people having permission for non-citizens to live in their country.

WHat do people think the US is? A ...a COUNTRY or something?

Should a bank robber be let go if they have a spouse and children that will be hurt financially if the robber goes to jail?

I don't see those as equivalent enough to give any meaning to the comparison.

I don't see those as equivalent enough to give any meaning to the comparison.

OK.

Then should a car thief be let go if they have a spouse and children that will be hurt financially if they go to jail? How about a pick pocket? What about a drunk driver?

Valid point.

Fair enough. I see compassion as not breaking up families, when their biggest crime was being born on the wrong dirt, and coming to another dirt.

Fine you see compassion, doesn't mean those who do break up those families due to the parents breaking the law don't have compassion.

doesn't mean those who do break up those families due to the parents breaking the law don't have compassion.

I disagree.

Then should a car thief be let go if they have a spouse and children that will be hurt financially if they go to jail? How about a pick pocket? What about a drunk driver?

I don't see those as equivalent either.

These people are not immigrants. They are illegal aliens. They are committing a crime.

Despotic regimes some are escaping from are not known to issue visas, so expecting everyone to have one isn't how real life works sometimes.

Others are skipping the line though. However this should be seen as an economic civil problem not criminal. Therefore they should pay a large fine and have their case seen in the regular line in due course. This provides their case to still be heard with the results one way or the other.

But if they are contributing to the USA economy and not merely hiding out, then they can pay the fine and be granted provisional status by the courts. By seeing it under economic terms rather than black and white jingoistic ones, it turns out to also be a humane approach to converting any immigrant into a tax paying citizen

There are 11 million illegal immigrants. Making them citizens was far and away the most economic financial windfall option for the USA rather than the incredible resources and expenses that will be required to deport all of them. Mass deportations seem like a nice theory, but are not a realistic practice.

Whoa, I didn't know labor is the sole factor for price fluctuation on goods. Thankfully some anonymous economists on an English-language Japanese news site are the authority on that. Also, I am so stupid to be incredulous that only illegals are employed in the American construction, restaurant and landscaping industries and that the American work force is too small and hard-working to be employed in them. History has proven that only illegals have perform these jobs since the founding of the USA. Thank you for showing the errors of my beliefs, Mr. nakanoguy

But if they are contributing to the USA economy and not merely hiding out, then they can pay the fine and be granted provisional status by the courts.

And how is it decided if they are a net contribution or a net drain on the USA economy? But even if they are contributing, first it doesn't mean someone else here legally (or a citizen) couldn't do the same contribution and second it is rewarding them for breaking the law.

I don't see those as equivalent either.

Well good thing that your view is the on the US government relies on.

There are 11 million illegal immigrants. Making them citizens was far and away the most economic financial windfall option for the USA rather than the incredible resources and expenses that will be required to deport all of them.

The order specifically targets criminals and new arrivals (less than 2 years in the country) for expedited removal. The idea that we need these types to be made citizens because they are so integrated into society the economy would collapse without them isn't even the argument of Amnesty advocates. I do hope the meatpacking industry goes down, though.not only for the rampant exploitation of workers but so we can all get real about the high cost of cheap food.

Legal immigrants should have a right to welfare to help them get back on their feet. Illegal aliens should not get welfare but the stats say they get more than legal immigrants which is a drain on society.

The overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants have modest levels of education; therefore, the high use of welfare associated with less-educated legal immigrants indicates that legalization would likely increase welfare costs, particularly for cash and housing programs.

http://cis.org/Welfare-Use-Legal-Illegal-Immigrant-Households

I disagree.

They are not mutually exclusive, you can punish people for breaking the law, which splits up families, and still be sympathetic. Heck I can put people in prison and yet still be concerned for their safety while in prison.

And crossing the border without permission? Sounds like a big deal to me.

But NOT to Mexico or the far Alt-left.

Just a traffic violation? How many have you have gone to another country knowing you had no visa, whether you crossed the border by night, or went in on a tourist visa and just stayed for months or years and then went around driving?

Usually it doesn't happen.

People are making out Trump and the US are almost Satanic - but, most people in the world understand that you need a visa to live in a country.

Exactly! Most people do, but for some odd and baffling reason, the left and the world thinks we HAVE to allow everyone to come in and that's ridiculous and it went on for so many years and glad that Trump is putting a lot of effort into this. Got my respect!

Illegals who do receive public assistance are on it primarily thanks to county social services employees who are charged with determining lawful status without the legal jurisdiction nor the practical ability to actually make that decision fairly and effectively. There needs to be a system for welfare programs similar to e verify which crosschecks basic information provided by job applicants with federal databases. What Trump should have done first is make e verify mandatory on a national level like it is in Arizona and the benefits will be as immediate around the country as they have been there.

The southern border of Mexico is a great template for USA to follow. Mexico utilizes a lot of resources to ensure its' southern border is fortified against illegal entry.

It's high noon, and bringing it back: That's right bringing it back:

Go on now, :Go on outta here,,go on a git! Git on outta here....don't come back now...you hear!!

Illegals who do receive public assistance

Illegals can't receive welfare. Just like Trump can't get Mexicans to pay for the wall.

to allow everyone to come

And it will continue even after Trump builds the wall for 10s and 10s of billions- to be charged to the US tax payer. It won't decrease the millions coming in. But it will increase the sales in ladders.

Millions living in U.S. illegally targeted for possible deportation under Trump rules

Well it is the law. No other country would allow it - why should the US?

nishikatFeb. 24, 2017 - 04:38AM JST Illegals who do receive public assistance Illegals can't receive welfare. Just like Trump can't get Mexicans to pay for the wall. to allow everyone to come And it will continue even after Trump builds the wall for 10s and 10s of billions- to be charged to the US tax payer. It won't decrease the millions coming in. But it will increase the sales in ladders."

Of course lots of illegals receive welfare and other social benefits. How hard do you think it is to make fake I.D.? Anybody with even intermediate Photoshop skills could make any kind of fake I.D. you might want.

I am not sure what you think a wall is. Do you think it would be like the Great Wall of China or Hadrian's Wall? This is the 21st century, have you heard of things like sensors, electronic alarms and drones? Do you know they have border guards and vehicles and helicopters and can get from one place to another quickly?

There are many ways to "get Mexico to pay for the wall." The easiest way would be to simply put a tariff on goods from Mexico coming over the border, or a tax on financial transactions to Mexico. The Mexican economy, such as it is, largely depends on trade with the USA.

Of course lots of illegals receive welfare and other social benefits

Please specify the exact number. Out of 11 million illegals in the USA how many have done this? And today's IDs are too sophisticated to do with Photoshop- how do you put IC chips in there, for example with Photoshop? This is not the 1980s. And it's not Hollywood. You can't make a modern driver's license with an ink jet printer.

The easiest way would be to simply put a tariff on goods from Mexico coming over the border

Based on what technicality (other than Trump hating Mexico)? And that means it's a tax on Americans (shoppers) and not Mexico.

I am not sure what you think a wall is.

Something to go over with ladders. They have worked for 1000s of years.

have you heard of things like sensors, electronic alarms and drones?

Again, some people have been watching too many Hollywood movies. They tried that in 2006 and it failed. It won't work and too expensive. Mexico won't pay.

The Mexican economy, such as it is, largely depends on trade with the USA.

Are you saying Mexico owes the USA because of the trade deficit on the US's side? It's really that simple?

Trump simply hates Mexico.

'Crossing the border illegally is a criminal offense, and the new memos make clear that those who have done so are included in the broad list of enforcement priorities.'

From the start any individual entering any country illegally has committed an offense.

If there weren't any restrictions on movement there would be a breakdown in many societies.

Trump is perfectly logical to approach illegal immigration in this manner!

If an non-priority illegal alien is encountered along the way, of course you deport them. It will take years to deport all 11 million plus illegals. No better time than the present.

Too many Americans, especially Trump supporters, fail to understand that their very way of life depends on cheap, immigrant labor to do jobs they refuse to do in agriculture, construction, meat processing, and myriad of other jobs they deem beneath them.

way of life depends on cheap, immigrant labor to do jobs they refuse to do in agriculture, construction, meat processing, and myriad of other jobs they deem beneath them.

Firstly many US citizens are and do perform those jobs. Secondly most Americans have no problem with immigrants doing these jobs, they have problems with ILLEGAL immigrants doing them.

Firstly many US citizens are and do perform those jobs. Secondly most Americans have no problem with immigrants doing these jobs, they have problems with ILLEGAL immigrants doing them

Obviously not enough US citizens do those jobs to meet demand hence opportunities for illegal immigrants to fill the need.

Americans that have problems w/illegal immigrants working in US are being hypocritical when their very way of life would be impossible w/out them.

Obviously not enough US citizens do those jobs to meet demand hence opportunities for illegal immigrants to fill the need.

Not obviously when there are Americans that can, will and are doing those jobs. The fact that some employers break the law to employ illegals at artificially low wages does not mean the illegals are vital to the US economy.

Americans that have problems w/illegal immigrants working in US are being hypocritical when their very way of life would be impossible w/out them.

Good thing that this isn't true. The only Americans that would be significantly hurt if all illegals disappeared tomorrow are the employers that illegally hire them.

Too many Americans, especially Trump supporters, fail to understand that their very way of life depends on cheap, immigrant labor to do jobs they refuse to do in agriculture, construction, meat processing, and myriad of other jobs they deem beneath them.

End illegal immigration and watch wages go up and Americans clamor to work instead of sitting in their parents basements staring at a bleak future. Labor supply, demand and wages are all inter-related. It's just basic economics. More people will work for a higher wage just as more people will drop out of the labor force when they are undercut by cheap imports (of labor). But these facts are no more than "alternate facts' to the Left when their priority is to import socialist voters.

Not deporting people who are illegally in a country is an injustice to the legally responsible people who paid the thousands of dollars and followed the rules to be in the country legally.

If you are say illegal immigration is fine, then you should take the locks off the doors of your house and let anyone in to live there. Don't be a hypocrite.

End illegal immigration and watch wages go up

That's not how the economy works let alone Capitalism, the very system that most Americans w/relatively high standard of living.

If wages went up cost of goods will also rise making everyday goods more expensive and the result would be slowing economic growth leading to fewer jobs.

Guess who would be hurt the most by this? The very same people who complain about illegal immigration yet rely the most on govt welfare.

If wages went up cost of goods will also rise making everyday goods more expensive and the result would be slowing economic growth leading to fewer jobs.

Except if millions of people, many who don't have jobs, left the US then the amount needed for schools, hospitals and other social services would go down. Would this offset the rise in prices? Maybe or maybe not. But your claim is far too simplistic.

But the thing is the system, if not artificially regulated, will correct itself. If the prices rise too much then opinions will shift and a call for immigration rules to be loosened. Allowing more of the claimed low-wage workers back into the country LEGALLY.

Wow, even Bush is calling out Trump now

Asked about Trump's claim that the media is the “enemy of the people,” Bush warned that an independent press is essential to democracy and that denouncing the press at home makes it difficult for the United States to preach democratic values abroad.

“I consider the media to be indispensable to democracy,” Bush said. “We need an independent media to hold people like me to account.

“Power can be very addictive and it can be corrosive and it's important for the media to call to account people who abuse power, whether it be here or elsewhere,” he added.

On Russia, Bush added that “we all need answers” about whether Trump campaign officials had contact with Russian officials in the election.

Link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/02/27/george-w-bush-critiques-trump-on-travel-ban-free-press/

Wow, even Bush is calling out Trump now

Of course. He is part of the corrupt Washington establishment. A nation doesn't run up a $20 trillion debt without bipartisan cooperation.

Anyone who doesn't see the Bushes (including low energy Jeb) and the Clintons/Obamas as the same political entity is either incredibly stupid or blind.

The main, number one reason Trump got in is because average, sane, working Americans woke up to the collusion and voted in an outsider to destroy the status quo. Also, Trump isn't making any new laws he is simply enforcing the ones that have already been set up to protect American lives and jobs.