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© Copyright 2009 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.Minnesota court rules for Franken in Senate fight
ST. PAUL, Minnesota©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.
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Ken Watanabe
Sounds like Florida vote-recount in 2000. I wonder what took it more than 7 months.
JoeBigs
Good to see ole Norm take his own advise and concede.....Too bad it only took him nearly 8 months....LOL
Sarge
That's all we need, another Democrat in the Senate... LOL
Wolfpack
Well looks like Obama gets a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate based on political machinations of a radicalized Supreme Court. And the Lib's thought that only Republicans stole elections!!
skipthesong
all this counting and recounting... we need to make election counts much simpler; cut and dry. I can't see politicians wasting money, as in this case to go back and forth on recounts. There needs to be a better way.
zurcronium
Sarge,
that is 60 votes in the Senate for the good guys. No stupid moves by the southern past due date whites only apply here republicans.
This is so sweet as Coleman was another Ensign/Sanford christian fanatic who felt they could do anything to anyone cause gawd is on their side.
See ya later Coleman, no one will miss you at all. You can join bush in the dustbin of losers and failures.
skipthesong
zur: Was Coleman that bad? It was a close race, wasn't it? besides, Minnesota is another irreverent state. What's that place got going for it? the US should start cutting states like this off.
teleprompter
C'mon.
It's Minnesota.
They elected a former pro wrestler to be their governor.
FryingMonkey
He's smart enough, good enough and gosh darn people like him!
teleprompter
Though only a lowly junior senator from a fly-over state the well-known Saturday Nite Live pic of Franken in diapers, with a pacifier in mouth and hugging a giant teddy bear, could work for him the way Obama's well-crafted visual logos and photos (the halos that AP photographers always frame his head with) did for our rookie president; I mean, at least with "liberals" and progressives.
Wouldn't be surprised if our boy Al is one of the most influential Dems in the Senate by summer's end.
SezWho2
But they didn't cast electoral votes for the former host of Death Valley Days (the former President of the Screen Guild Actors Union who counseled Hollywood Actors never to appear on television), the Democrat-turned-Republican and the notorious shill for the cigarette industry.
What's your point? Minnesota's a great state and its citizens deserve some kind of official pronouncement. I know it's been a mere 7 months, but if Americans in 2000 had an exigent need--a need which trumped caution and care--to know who their next President was going to be, surely Minnesotans in 2008, now 2009, can stop bending over backwards to satisfy Coleman's sore-losership.
teleprompter
Your point?
What does Reagan have to do with Minnesota?
SezWho2
skipthesong,
It's hard for me to tell if you are trying to be funny or if you are serious. Have you ever been to Minnesota? Do you mean "irreverent" or "irrelevant"?
Minnesota is no more "irrelevant" than Arizona, Maryland or Wisconsin with whom it is tied for 18th place in terms of electoral votes. Votes from states such as this were extremely important in the last election. And with its strong Lutheran roots and with a large Catholic population it isn't exactly "irreverent", either.
In addition to its lakes and natural beauty, Minnesota has the 12th largest GDP per capita in the US, ahead of the national average and of states like Illiois, Pennsylvania, Florida and Texas. It's home to the largest privately-owned company in the US (Cargill) and is world famous for medicine and education. It's a great place to raise a family, but you have to be able to withstand the cold.
Minnesotans are, generally speaking, a patient lot. But 7 months is long enough to wait. I don't have a dog in this fight but it seemed early on that Franken had most likely won. It's time the situation was finalized, one way or the other.
SezWho2
Exactly. He has as much to do with Minnesota as the former pro-wrestler governor has to do with the Coleman/Franken dispute. And if you're going to mock Minnesotan's for the lack of judgment in one area, we might as well applaud them for their good sense in another.
smithinjapan
Fun to watch the Right-wingers' heads explode here.
No more filibusters for them; filibusters which were being carried out or planned simply because they didn't like the shalacking they got last November and wanted to try to stick it to Obama.
Only took eight months or so, but there you have it -- another Republican loser and another good day for the US.
Looking forward to more off-topic rants from some of the Right-wingers above (sound of their heads exploding).
Good job, Franken.
yabits
And his best selling and well-known books: Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot; and Lies, and the Lying Liars who Tell Them.
Pegged the dittoheads and Fox News-junkies to a T.
Molenir
Yeah, we all knew it was coming. Voting irregularities or no. Close election or no. Franken was regretably on the winning side of the line. Unlike you, and the other loons on here, I see this as it is. A sad day for America, giving complete control of the country to the loons who are anxious to destroy the country. Sorry, I see no other way to describe what Obama and the loony leftists are doing. A sad day for America as the bad guys win, evil triumphs over good, and takes complete control of the Senate.
It will be 6 more years to be for Republicans take back their seats in Alaska and some of the other places they lost this last election. Of course I don't think the Dumbs will be able to hold this majority come midterms next year. Myself I'm predicting a loss of 4 Senate seats, and 15 house seats, for the Dems, though depending on how the economy goes, it might be significantly more.
VOR
Al Franken, the face of the Democratic Party. The clown of clowns.
JoeBigs
Yes they also have elected a Republican Governor, was that also a good move?
I love reading how the far right here is calling this elect a farce. But funny how things turned out. The last court that the two went before were made up of mainly Republican judges.....
Hell Norm could not steal the election with Republican judges, no one must really like him...LOL
SezWho2
I think the "clown of clowns" award would more likely go to someone who though Franken was the face of the Democratic Party. Partisan bitterness just keeps rolling along.
BeaverCleaver
VOR-"Al Franken, the face of the Democratic Party. The clown of clowns."
Humor seems to increase intelligence. A lot of right wingers really should look into it.
I read his book "Lies and Lying Liars" and the guy seems to be very fair and very balanced right from the start, which are two things the right just cannot tolerate. As such, I guess he won't make much of a leader, because he does not manipulate or prod people or tell them what to do and think. Dumb people on the left need those things whether they like it or not, and it seems even more of the base Republicans do because they just don't have the capacity to think rationally very much or to lead themselves. They also think everything is a barter and you have to start from unfairness to get a deal.
I like Franken. He is a lot like me in the way he thinks. I can tell you that I wish those absentee ballots would have been counted if they were not, even if it meant Franken lost. A Republican would no doubt call that "weak" when it is in fact just "fair" and what people who believe in democracy do. Republicans are always just looking for a fight, and always support their side no matter how wrong they may be.
But its all too late now. We know few Republicans, and probably not many Democrats either (but just as tit for tat I think) would worry about those absentee ballots unless they were shown to have lost the election, of course. But its too long to go without a senator. The absentee ballots should have been counted a long time ago. Too late now.
Give the seat to Franken, and its nothing to do with the fact I like him. I am not Republican.
Taka313
Sez,
My boy is just trying his bestest to take a few pot shots at ol Taka. I'm a native Minnesotan and in a black and white world, that means Minnesota must be "bad" or somehow less significant. I know; I know. After a while, you learn to enjoy the nonsense. Trust me. What's funny is that he loves taking these pointless potshots while never identifying where he is from. On a national scale, he then hounds people who take potshots at America and derides them for not expressing where they are from. All of this done, with zero sense of irony or hypocrisy. See...THAT'S why it's funny!
Anyway, now that normy's conceded, has anyone called the people at Guinness? We've just seen the conclusion to the world's longest temper tantrum.
But I would like to address a few of the sour grapers here:
wolfpack,
I double-dog dare you to find ONE piece of credible (that would be a key word here) evidence showing ANY impropriety within this election by the Democratic party.
Skip,
Actually, you would be interested to know that my home state is home to a hospital (Mayo Clinic) that is in the top 5 throughout the world. Minnesota is also home to 3M, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Bob Dylan, Prince, Charles Schulz, and Boiled in Lead (great band, check them out). Another thing to point out is that up until about 10 years ago, Minnesota was the bluest of the blue states. Our taxes were high, but we were ranked in the Morgan-Qinto studies as being the most livable state in the country and for having the best education in the country for about a decade. Then, someone forgot to shut the door and the republicans came in. We're no longer in the top 10 in either (replaced by blue states, mind you). Just an observation from your old pal, Taka.
And for the bile spewers....sorry, I've got nothing for you. We won. The truth won. Goodness won. I'm going to revel in that for a week or so while on vacation. Enjoy your tantrums (but try to keep them under 8 months; we'd like for normy's record to stand).
Taka
teleprompter
No mention of Air America? They blew Rush outta the water, man!
BeaverCleaver
Al Franken calls a spade a spade. Doesn't he know you are supposed to politely kowtow to ridiculous lies for the sake of Repbulican group harmony? Doesn't he know that lies have many purposes, such as making the clever liars rich while giving us social problems to wrangle over and wars to fight? Because without the wrangling and the wars, what fun would our lives be? Without oppressing someone, how could we feel the joy of feeling superior to someone out there, at least? How could we feel the joy of getting something over on someone? Al Franken does not understand these things. He is not Republican. Next thing you know, he might be suggesting America do something about its oil dependency, nixing the prospect of future wars, manipulation of foreign countries, and prospects for some to grow rich while others die and we wipe blood from our hands.
He is not much of a leader. But that is ok. I don't want a leader. I want someone who is fair and honest, something the really good leaders are not. I can lead and think for myself. I am not Republican.
teleprompter
Franken will make a fine supporting actor in Barack's Excellent Adventure.
teleprompter
Gosh Beav, ya do a real good impersonation of a American ya do.
BeaverCleaver
Taka313: "I'm a native Minnesotan "
Sioux?
smithinjapan
Molenir: "Unlike you, and the other loons on here, I see this as it is."
Hahaha... LOVE IT! "Unlike... the other loons" in the same sentence! Speaks volumes, alright! Nothing but bias and hypocrisy from someone who claims to 'see it all'.
smithinjapan
Molenir: "It will be 6 more years to be for Republicans take back their seats in Alaska and some of the other places they lost this last election."
And rightly so, given how horribe they were as 'leaders'. You reap what you sew.
"Of course I don't think the Dumbs..."
Ah, yes... the 'Dumbs'. Again, your language tells it all, my friend.
"Myself I'm predicting a loss of 4 Senate seats, and 15 house seats, for the Dems, though depending on how the economy goes, it might be significantly more."
You can likewise say there might even be a gain 'depending on how the economy goes'. In other words, it's silly to make such predictions now, particular if voters choose to remember that the economy became what it is under the last leadership, and takes time to heal. Giving it back to the people who helped destroy it by calling for open-markets, etc. and ignoring things as they went spiralling down hill will only result in things getting WORSE.
BeaverCleaver
teleprompter-"Gosh Beav, ya do a real good impersonation of a American ya do."
Thank you! I used to be one. (technically I still am.) Unfortunately, I cannot compliment your impression of an American, so I will just not say anything more about it. But I will suggest that inventing a home state might help make it more beleivable. See Taka's post.
SushiSake3
The GOP succeeds yet again at becoming even more irrelevant than it was. :-)
smithinjapan
"Gosh Beav, ya do a real good impersonation of a American ya do."
Here we go again! teleprompter saying if you're not American, you cannot have a say. No wonder he always demands to know where you are from so he can try and undermine it. Taka's bang on, though, teleprompter even bashes his own country when it disagrees with him (and the majority do, of course), if he can't turn on another nation. It all serves, of course, to show just how utterly incapable he is of carrying out a decent conversation, and how much better people outside his emotional tantrum zone are at seeing things. I feel sorry for Americans when people like teleprompter claim to represent public opinion -- he ends up defeating his own arguments by claiming only he has a right to an opinion.
And in this case, he does it again. As Taka said as well, it's quite humourous to watch. I mirror his 'good luck with the tantrums'!
Again for Franken, good job! Perhaps instead of the Republicans simply going off in sour-grape rants, they ought to try and regroup their fragmented party, admit some things aren't working, and try to figure out how they can effectively get their seats back. Hint: crying about not having them doesn't work; nor does saying, "support me, but if you don't your opinion isn't worth a damn!"
goodDonkey
VOR said:
He attended Harvard College and graduated cum laude. What is your level of education? Your ilk listen to Rush; Rush flunked out of college.
Did I hear someone say 60?
Or was it 60 I heard?
Maybe they were just saying 60.
I remember teleprompter (RR) was bragging about Rush one time and bragging about Al Franken's failure at Air America. Actually he was shrieking about Air America's failure in general. I tried to tell him that was because liberals have independent minds and do not like to be told what to think. temeprompter (RR) insisted that because Rush L. was making so much money that he was somehow better than Franken. I would not want to be a flunk out like Rush. Graduating cum laude from Harvard would be pretty cool. I did not go to an Ivy League school; that would have been cool. But it is extremely prestigious to be a U.S. Senator. Fatass Rush can deliver his blowhard b.s. as often as he blubbers his way up to the mic but he will never be making any laws. He will have his drones of brain cell free clones but no power. He will remain a legend in his own mind.
My favorite phrase during the next how-ever-many years it lasts will be "the cloture vote passes" At least 60 are needed. We have 60.
I hear people who claim to have degrees on JT and they can't spell and can't even formulate sentences half the time. Of course one of them brags about everything so it is only natural for him to say he has a degree. It amazes me that someone dumb as a rock would claim to have a degree.
I hope Al does well in the U.S. Senate. Unfortunately with people like Lieberman and some Blue Dog Dems I don't think the 60 Non-Republican Senators will vote for cloture as often as I would like. It would be wonderful to see a plethora of liberal legislation being passed and the country get back to progressing instead of regressing.
skipthesong said:
Another bright comment. I just don't understand some comments.
goodDonkey
teleprompter (RR) said:
I was composing my comment and did not have a chance to read this one. Thank you man. I love it! Exactly what I was talking about.
You continue to stand behind Rush. The flunky needs propping up. You're doing a good job with that teleprompter (RR).
teleprompter
Oops.
2,812 votes for Franken - from deceased Minnesotans.
http://www.minnesotamajority.org/Home/tabid/112/EntryID/187/Default.aspx
goodDonkey
Wolfpack said:
It is a Senate rule brainiac. (Rule XXII) The Supreme Court has absolutely nothing to do with it. It is so nice to see those that take the vow of "Judicial Restraint" know so little about the constitution, the law, procedures, etc.
goodDonkey
zurcronium said:
That is too funny!
goodDonkey
teleprompter said:
Ah yes! More shrieks from the irrelevant.
The irrelevant elephant.
teleprompter
goodDonkey (adaydream)
Rush Limbaugh, and Fox News, are not available in W Japan. But I am enjoying watching Obama and the Dems.
Remember - Clinton is the only two-term prez you have had since WW2, and his run came during that holiday from history we took between the fall of the old Soviet Union (thank you, Reagan) and the events of 9-11, perpetrated by the Christian West's historically most implacable enemy - a foe that won't soon be going away, no matter how many times Middle Name Hussein goes to Cairo to beg and apologize.
goodDonkey
BeaverCleaver at 12:40 PM JST - 1st July
/
bushlover
[Fun to watch the Right-wingers' heads explode here.] [Nothing but bias and hypocrisy from someone who claims to 'see it all'.] [Here we go again! teleprompter saying if you're not American, you cannot have a say. No wonder he always demands to know where you are from so he can try and undermine it.]
I love how non-Americans obsess over our politics. Especially those ever superioUr Kanadians. Now that is the ultimate in arrogance, something they claim Americans are. Some just can't see the Forrest for the Chrees bye.
LFRAgain
SezWho was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of taking juvenile potshots at Minnesotans for electing Jesse Ventura, when they also supported Ronald Reagan (of “Bedtime for Bonzo” fame). Don’t get me wrong; There are a number of things for which I respect Reagan. But don’t call out Minnesotans for supporting our guy while ignoring the fact that it was politically advantageous, and thus "right," when they supported your guy. Spread the love equally, is all.
Because Norm Coleman continued to put up legal challenges to successive recounts, even though every time election officials addressed what Coleman claimed were "irregularities," his margin of loss kept increasing. The more he contested, the more votes Franken got. And STILL he wouldn't quit. It took the State Supreme Court to finally end this nonsense.
Congratulations to Al Franken! He fought a good, clean fight and will undoubtedly prove to be a capable and fair senator for the good people of Minnesota.
Oh yeah, and the Dems got 60 votes in the Senate, too. Score! v(^-^)v
skipthesong
taka,
Look, I never fell for the dems are.. the repubs are .. crap. I just wish these politicians would stop being so zealous. You can not tell me Franken didn't have more to lose if he accepted defeat when the initial count was made. That is probably his main reason for sticking it out. while I won't whine when my team loses due to a technicality, I don't like politicians winning that way. We need to put a stop to it.
LFRAgain
Wolfpack,
It was the MINNESOTA Supreme Court that ruled that Franken's victory was legitimate, not the US Supreme Court.
You might be able to make more compelling arguments if you'd take time to learn the facts, rather than going with the usual half-baked propaganda.
skipthesong
It was the MINNESOTA Supreme Court that ruled that Franken's victory was legitimate, not the US Supreme Court."
Well, isn't this still somewhat similar to when Bush beat Gore, which I believe he didn't but he was elected anyways?
goodDonkey
teleprompter (RR),
I am not adaydream. I believe he fought in combat. I sat behind a desk in the Air Force in Germany and California. You are disrespecting adaydream by calling me, him. I have no desire to make claim to honors I do not deserve. He deserves honor, if I am correct and he had to fight in combat.
But you cannot say you are not Romeo Ramen, injet, etc.
Let's face it we went round and round on this before. You even said I was not an American. You can't make anyone believe the things you say about me. NOT ONE REPUBLICAN / CONSERVATIVE BELIEVES I post under another name. I am far to cocky for that and my comments are so recognizable it is truly pathetic. I pontificate like no one else can. You previously said I was smithinjapan. But almost EVERY REPUBLICAN / CONSERVATIVE BELIEVES you are Romeo Ramen, inkjet, etc. The only person you fool is yourself.
Like I said we went round and round before and the Mods will just remove all our comments to each other. I will still try this magic spell one more time:
Abbra Cadabara "Be Gone Troll" ^^^^^^^^ Poof ^^^^^^^^^
goodDonkey
Did it work?
inkjet
give 'em enough rope and they'll hang themselves.
LFRAgain
Teleprompter,
Oh.
My.
God.
Please give me back the seconds it took to read the above garbage. I actually feel a little bit dumber for having read it.
VOR
Democrats have total control of the government for now and will be judged by the American people in 2010. Better hope the economy shows some improvement.
aerockyulhim
Everyone that is undressing the far-rights on this site can take comfort everytime you see teleprompter use President Obama's middle name. That means you've defeated teleprompter's arguments and he's now going to act like a petulant child that just lost an argument with his kid brother.
SuperLib
I like Franken. He's a good writer. And I respect the fact that he didn't just complain about government, he actually got off his ass and ran for office. I can't say I know much about his policies but I was rooting for him from a distance.
smithinjapan
bushlover: "I love how non-Americans obsess over our politics"
Another, "If you don't like OUR (as in right-wing) politics, you have no right to comment". Arrogance at its worst. Some day you guys will crawl out from the whole you're in and not have to wonder why you're hated for such close-minded thinking. By 'you', I mean only people who think such ways, of course. Again, I feel sorry for the Americans who are smeared for the ideas that a very small minority such as yourself often express.
goodDonkey
VOR said:
I am hoping the economy gets better; are you hoping it doesn't?
smithinjapan
inkjet/RR: "give 'em enough rope and they'll hang themselves."
You speak from experience... errr... as a Republican, anyway. Unfortunately, Republicans never learn from their mistakes, hence the massacre last November, which you guys STILL can't seem to learn from.
Hopefully the Dems don't fall into the same problems -- and I say that for your country, not for their party. Unfortunately there are already those like you willing to blame the Dems. for the failures of the Republicans who were last in charge.
VOR
i'm hoping the economy doesn't get any worse but i'm afraid that is wishful thinking as Obama and his central planners decimate the economy.
al franken and his harvard education will save the democrats from themselves i'm sure.
goodDonkey
VOR said:
You can say the worst things you can think of about Obama. You can even say that you hope that Obama does not get any credit if the economy gets better. But when you say you hope the economy doesn't get any worse (Hopefully you would like to see it improve as much as possible) then you are saying exactly the right thing. Everyone should put country before politics.
timorborder
So what if Minnesota elected a former pro wrestler as Governor? I actually like ol' Jesse, in particular his views on enhanced interrogation techniques. What was the equation? Dick Cheney, a waterboard and 30 minutes? Spandex tights aside, Jesse's biggest problem was he wouldn't play the game of politics.
With regard to Al Franken, I heard him a couple of times on Prairie Home Companion. He seemed to be a nice enough chap.
teleprompter
Tax cheat Franken follows the crook Roland Burris, who we now know tried to buy Obama's Illinois seat. Yes, Dems can be proud that these 2 join the likes of Teddy "Amphibious Oldsmobile" Kennedy and the racist Klansman and former Grand Kleagle (KKK recruiter) Robert Byrd in the US Senate. Throw in Chris "CountryWide" Dodd, Chucky "Let's Sink Another Bank Today" Schumer and Barney Frank (lover ran a gay prostitution service out of Frank's DC condo) and I can see why "liberals" are excited about having a majority:the crooks don't need to learn how to be taught the cut throat,end-justifies-the means style of politics of the Chicago Way that came with Obama to our nation's capital.
aerockyulhim
And California twice elected actors to run their state. The American people twice elected an actor to be their president (and isn't he the right's diety and greatest leader in the history of the world and best president that they couldn't stop mourning for weeks on end and wanted to replace Abraham Lincoln for on the 5-dollar bill (I think it was the 5, but it could have been any of the others and still be a ludicrous idea)?). We have people elected into all forms of office in our country from ALL walks of life. Actors, former-athletes, former-wrestlers, veterans, draft-dodgers, etc. etc. The American government is made up of a snapshot of the American people. You CANNOT denounce Franken simply because he was a comedian and actor. So was the "greatest president ever" Ronald Reagan
aerockyulhim
By twice elected as president I meant to two terms. It was the same guy, in case anyone thought I didn't know that. And as to California I meant Reagan and Schwarzenegger. Sorry to mix the terms up.
LFRAgain
Skip,
Yes, there are some similarities, however, the largest difference is the application of the so-called "safe harbor" rule, which mandates that all recounts in presidential elections must be called by the "fifth Tuesday after Election Day." Such inexplicable restrictions are nonexistent in Senate races.
The Minnesota race perfectly illustrates how a lot of acrimony over the 2000 presidential election could have been avoided, in effect garnering Bush more respect and cooperation from Liberals, if the Florida votes had been recounted as thoroughly and completely as they were in the Minnesota race. Minnesotans had 7 months to sort it out. The American people were given 5 weeks. You’d think the system would afford the vastly more important presidential election more time to ensure that every vote was properly counted, rather than calling the race on a technicality by saying, in effect, “We don’t have enough time to be fair.”
There’s a lot to be learned from the Minnesota Senate race, and that lesson isn’t to resort to obsolete technicalities like the “safe harbor deadline” to squeeze out a victory.
skipthesong
So was the "greatest president ever" Ronald Reagan" He was? And what draft dodger did we elect?
hey Good Donkey, you don't have to get so mean. I was only pointing out there there are a lot of states that really offer the US nothing; they just syphon money with returning hardly any and I include Minn in that category.
How did people get so "my team the dems/repubs"? In my opinion, the next time we have an election like this and no one can make a decision, it should automatically go to the nearest independent.
BeaverCleaver
teleprompter-"Tax cheat Franken follows the crook Roland Burris,"
Our belweather has just released another red herring into the wilds of this discussion. That means Franken is A-OK.
smithinjapan
SuperLib: "I like Franken. He's a good writer. And I respect the fact that he didn't just complain about government, he actually got off his ass and ran for office. I can't say I know much about his policies but I was rooting for him from a distance."
A nice, down-to-earth post, thank you. I agree with you whole-heartedly, and his having a good sense of humour and humility don't hurt either.
aerockyulhim
I don't think he was the greatest president, but most of his constituents did/do (at least that was the impression one would draw from the aftermath of his death, as well as their constant defense of his policies (Reaganomics) and it mirrors the constant defense of the Bushes policies). Clinton was a draft-dodger. My point wasn't democratic representatives in government are inherently good, and republican reps are inherently bad. I was saying that people who are discounting Franken and other former reps because of their jobs before getting into office have no ground to stand on.
aerockyulhim
People from all walks of life make it into government, and that's no reason to discount them. That's all I was trying to say there.
LFRAgain
Skip,
Respectfully, I don't think membership in the Union is precluded by a "What can you do for us?" clause, complete with a Curriculum Vitae. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness were the only things the Founders considered important, and once a state reached the 700,000 population mark, you were in, no questions asked. The only condition to receiving federal funds of any kind are to obey federal laws. That’s it. No other conditions. Nor should there be.
Your rationale bears a striking resemblance to the same logic that virtually guarantees poor school districts demonstrating subsequently poor academic performance remain so on all counts.
And as another poster pointed out, Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota is one of – if not the – preeminent medical research and treatment facilities in the nation, if not the world, and as such is certainly nothing to sneeze at.
skipthesong
"I like Franken. He's a good writer. And I respect the fact that he didn't just complain about government, he actually got off his ass and ran for office"
Hey, I actually like that too. You're right, good on Al for that! More people should get up and get out there instead of wasting time on JT.
Vote for skip or skip the vote 2012! I'll start in New Jersey, if I meet the residence requirements!
aero: I guess I must have missed out on the Regan years (too young but many in my community liked him) and I did not know that Clinton was a draft dodger.
BeaverCleaver
skipthesong-"and I did not know that Clinton was a draft dodger."
You still don't. That was a lie so fat it warrants an apology from aerockyulhim. Clinton was a Vietnam war protestor, just like a lot of sensible and courageous people. He never signed up for that bout of stupidity, but he was never drafted either. You cannot even call him a chickenhawk as he was obviously against the war and there is no hypocrisy there. Clinto has left his opponents no choice but to make up slander about this aspect. Such slander should come with an official Japan Today yellow card from the referees.
Sarge
Al Franken wrote the book "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot." Is that "the big fat idiot" who hosts America's #1 talk radio program?
Checking...
Yeah, it is!
"I'm a native Minnesotan"
Chippewa?
BeaverCleaver
Sarge-"Al Franken wrote the book "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot." Is that "the big fat idiot" who hosts America's #1 talk radio program? "
Some idiots enjoy enormous popularity. Particularly among other idiots. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNBNqUdqm1E&feature=fvst
aerockyulhim
BeaverCleaver, yeah, I know, that was just one of those things that the right loves to throw at Clinton. It was kind of going with the whole of my point of outlining the staggering hypocracy that the right uses to bring down anything other than what they believe. So, yes, I will apologize for not making that clear. Thanks for bringing that to light so more people will (perhaps) know the truth.
smithinjapan
sarge: "Is that "the big fat idiot" who hosts America's #1 talk radio program?"
And? that just means a lot of big fat idiots subscribe to the drivel he shovels into their open mouths. Franken is bang on.
Oops... didn't notice Beaver beat me to the punch.
BeaverCleaver
aerockyulhim, cheers for the explaination.
aerockyulhim
Let's go into more of the right's name-calling as well. Sarge didn't start it on this thread but he's continuing it and I didn't realize it was such a popular tactic now. So if someone says they're a native of a state, you think they can only be a native if they are Native American Indian?? So what does that make you?! Do you walk around saying "I'm from America, but I'm not Native American, my family immigrated from (insert white European country here), but I still consider myself American" Incredible that you take the time to say that! It's staggering the games you guys will try to play to bring the level of discussion down to playground name-calling.
sailwind
I've always wondered why liberals always feel the need to insult people they don't agree with.
Al Franken is a perfect example of that mindset.
"Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot"
Always found that perplexing myself from the so called enlightened intellectual class.
aerockyulhim
BeaverCleaver, I just reread my post about Clinton being a draft-dodger and I should have put it in quotes to highlight my point. Sorry to come off the way that it reads. I'm relatively new to joining forum discussions and I sometimes forget how easily sarcasm can get lost in print.
BeaverCleaver
teleprompter-"Tax cheat Franken follows the crook Roland Burris,"
Franken did an odd thing. He somehow paid taxes to states where he did not have to and is now seeking to get that money back to pay to the states where its actually owed. Yeah, some tax cheat. The red herring was even redder than I first thought.
Being a national figure with appearances all over the country, Franken paid his taxes in many states but due to an oversight missed 17 states he should have paid. 17 states! Is every state in the union trying to get a piece of him or what? Yeah, I think some errors might happen. My big question is why it took so long to find the mistakes, but then suddenly in 2008, during an election, they are "mysteriously" uncovered. I am sure there was not any Republican involvement it that!
He paid his dues. Get over it.
Molenir
Because they're so far above us, the only way they feel they connect with us lower slime creatures, is via insults. You see, people in the Ivory Tower know better, and know more then you. You're failure to see this and understand that they are better then you, and that you should allow them and the government to run your life is what separates us from them.
aerockyulhim
Franken insults one guy, arguably the biggest blowhard and defacto voice of the Republican party, and suddenly the left are a bunch of insult-slingers deigning to come down and allow the right to join in the discussion. That's quite a lot you've read out of one title of one book by one man aimed at one other man. Did you actually, I don't know, READ the book? Or are you doing that ever-so-foolish thing where you judge books by their covers? Here you don't even have a cover!! Just a title!
BeaverCleaver
Wait, that's not Al Franken going to the Senate! Its Mick Jagger!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_mwsDFm7bQ&feature=player_embedded
BeaverCleaver
Al Franken's book title was NOTHING more than a reaction to a serial ad hominem attacker. Limbaugh started it, so suck it up. Very typical right wing to do anything to protect their man at the expense of consistency. Very lame too.
aerockyulhim
That's exactly right. But don't expect them to "read" much more into what the title actually meant. If taking things at face-value allows you to "win" arguments, you can bet they'll do it.
BeaverCleaver
aerockyulhim-"So what does that make you?!"
I never ever claim to be native anything except a native English speaker. I may be over-sensitive, but I am painfully aware of Sioux history, particularly Santee Sioux, and how my ancestors stole North America by force, trickery, broken treaties and lies. I just say I am from the state I am from and "I am from the U.S.", "I was born in __", the end. I don't bring up the Native Americans in the context of my origins, but get me started and I will go on and on.
Incidently, Franken was not even born in Minnesota. I can only hope that as U.S. Senator, he will push for return of the Lower Sioux Indian Reservation to the size agreed upon in the 1851 treaties. Normally I say treaties are null and void when war breaks out, but that war was brought upon the Santee by the U.S., who forced them into it by not upholding the treaties in the first place.
goodDonkey
sailwind said:
Long after sailwind said:
BeaverCleaver
sailwind-"I've always wondered why liberals always feel the need to insult people they don't agree with."
The insults do not stem from mere disagreement. The insults come after being subjected to a string of unrelated justifications, unfounded defenses, and a host of red herring emotional appeals. That is when they get nasty. What I have always wondered is why the rightist hate losing so badly that they will pull any amount of bull in order just to win, or at least think they won? Why can't they just focus on truth and fairness and take their lumps when they come?
teleprompter
Beaver:"What I have always wondered is why the rightist hate losing so badly that they will pull any amount of bull in order just to win, or at least think they won?"
"Rightists"?
Dude - where in the States did you say you are from ???
goodDonkey
sailwind said:
He goes on to say that Al Franken is of that mindset. That is easy for sailwind to say since he never uses insults.
Rush
sailwind
sailwind
Rush
I do have to give credit to sailwind for this one:
Doing my research and found sailwind outing teleprompter . . . Priceless!
Rush not only insults but is a total hypocrite
Rush
Rush
Rush
Rush
Rush
Rush
sailwind said: One word for the administration....IDIOTS
sailwind
Yeah we insult but we own up to what we do. You and Molenir try to say we think we are better than other people. I guess that just makes you better than us because you are humble and don't insult people. I think if I set my mind to it I could find more of Molenir's insults than sailwind's.
yabits
And I've always wondered why conservatives always try to insult the intelligence of the people they can never measure up to.
The best of the liberal writers -- Franken included -- can present the conservative side of an argument as good as conservatives do - before using simple logic and facts to deflate it like a bad tire. The occasions when a conservative presents the liberal side of an argument fairly and honestly are very rare indeed.
Anyway, one of my favorite Franken quotes: "Worring about whether there is bias in the media is worrying about whether or not Al Qaeda puts too much olive oil in its hummous."
yabits
If everyone who considers themselves a "conservative" would take a vow to devote themselves to honestly and thoroughly seeking out the various sides of an issue, and boldly go where the facts lead them, rejecting myth and dogma, the liberal ranks would be overflowing within a week.
goodDonkey
sailwind said:
Yeah, I've known a few Phd's to swear, drink, smoke and chase women too. Those liberal bastards. Good thing a Republican or any other conservative has never done those things.
Molenir said:
So, Molenir, you would have us believe that you don't insult people?
By the way, hell yeah, most liberals think it is ok to insult Rush Limbaugh. We don't know anyone who is so crass and disgusting. Talk about Ivory Towers, Rush has no formal education but everyone is stupid in his eyes. I am now interested in what Al Franken had to say about the bellicose, pompous ass.
yabits
Why would conservatives take their wallowing in the slime of continual misrepresentation of facts and events as an insult? Why not wear that slime proudly?
teleprompter
If "liberals" are so high-minded and free of malice why do bigtime Lefty blogs like HuffPo have to disable comments when the thread is about Cheney's heart trouble or Palin's special needs child?
aerockyulhim
teleprompter--that wasn't a red herring about the Sioux nation that BeaverCleaver was talking about. He was directly addressing my post earlier. It's not like he/she? just randomly started talking about the plight of the Sioux. I think this proves how closely you pay attention to what's going on around you instead of taking everything out of context to suit your purposes.
aerockyulhim
That sounds like a favorite tactic of the right. Context or no, factual or not, if something suits your purpose, you'll pounce on it whether it makes you look stupid or not.
helloklitty
Al Franken is repellent.
sailwind
Well.....Sheesh
Good Donkey, Yabits
Why don't you call a sailwind a big fat idiot and get ever it with.
BeaverCleaver
teleprompter- "Rightists"?
Sorry. How exactly do you describe regular listeners who lap up the crap Limbaugh spews? Is there a better term to describe the idiots that adore the idiot? I mean, I have listened to the dude myself, but I can see through him like he was spotless glass. He is witty and sometimes he makes me laughbu his politcal views and goals are ugly as sin. The man is an abomination. He embarrasses the whole country in the eyes of the people of the world unfortunate enough to have heard of him and in the eyes of a great many Americans such as myself.
"Dude - where in the States did you say you are from ???"
50 states to choose from. If I wanted to lie to you, it would very easy. I won't. I will just tell you the truth. I am not telling. But its not Minnesota.
SezWho2
LFRAgain,
Actually, I don't think Minnesotans supported Reagan in either '80 or '84. I was saying that while they may have voted for a pro wrestler at least they didn't vote for an actor, especially a self-serving one.
However, I was saying as you suggest that to attack Minnesotans as being silly on account of voting for a pro wrestler is a bit irrelevant to the Franken/Coleman matter.
BeaverCleaver
teleprompter- "If "liberals" are so high-minded and free of malice why do bigtime Lefty blogs like HuffPo have to disable comments when the thread is about Cheney's heart trouble or Palin's special needs child?"
This might deserve a top ten list. Let me give you the short list: -Hating either person does not make a man a liberal. -There are scumbag people in the world who do not properly fit into a political spectrum except for anarchy and they like to post offensive comments. Just because they don't go to your church does not make them liberal. -I cannot say such comments are representive of liberals. A lot of liberals say similar things and agree on a lot of things. Those kinds of posts are not the things agreed on by liberals.
SezWho2
Taka313,
I'm sure you can weather those potshots. Thanks for the explanation.
I really don't get the criticism of Minnesota or Minnesotans in this matter. Despite its rejection of Reagan, Minnesota has always impressed me as a conservative state, conservative in the way that practices family values rather than just talking about them.
This was an incredibly close election and with the 60-vote figure staring the Republicans in the face, there is little doubt in my mind that there was tremendous pressure on Coleman to continue to contest the results. But if the 2009 Senate 60-vote issue was a matter of grave importance to the nation, so was the 2001 Presidency. It was time to put this to rest.
sailwind
Serious Question..........All politics aside, and I'm going to modify your question just a little bit to make my point.
How exactly do you describe regular church goers who lap up the crap Rev. Wright spews?
Think about it.
yabits
I am not sure what this has to do with Senator Franken, but the tradition of "preachers" warning nations about their sins and evils goes back to the prophets of the Old Testament. (I suggest looking at the one who shares Wright's surname.) Unlike Limbaugh, a preacher does not exclude his own congregation from the wrongness of its ways.
Liberals like Franken and preachers like Wright deeply want what is best for ALL people. Limbaugh only wants whats best for his conservative clique, and everyone else be damned.
sailwind
I'm confused, please clarify. You say a preacher does not exclude his congregation from the wrongness of its ways.
Yet you say "his conservative clique". Is that not his congregation?
You'll have to explain slow to me I don't speak "liberal" very well to understand the difference.
sailwind
Aha..I get it....Rev wright wanted what is best for all the people! Guess why he doesn't like the jooze.
yabits
A good preacher doesn't divide the world into a clique that can do no wrong, and everyone else, as does the person who Al Franken has called "a big, fat idiot".
To the best of my knowledge, the church removed or retired the preacher in question. If enough people had sufficient decency and love of truth, they would turn away from the person who is the theme of Senator Franken's first book.
smithinjapan
sailwind: "Why don't you call a sailwind a big fat idiot and get ever it with."
You're not a big fat idiot at all. In fact, you sometimes post some very rational, open-minded posts. It's just that sometimes you don't realize the hypocrisy of some posts.
SezWho: "I really don't get the criticism of Minnesota or Minnesotans in this matter."
A Democrat one the state... that's all that narrow-minded and superficial people need to criticize in many cases. Doesn't matter that it's for the better and will benefit them as well.
JoeBigs
Alright boys and girls, sing along with me....Hit it Bob!
60 is the magic number la la la, yes 60 is the magic number. No more Cheney, no more Bush, we have our rights back aaaaaand 60 is the magic number, la la la, come on now let's all stand up and cheer!LOL
Can not wait for the next election, maybe more nails will be hammered into that far far right wing (cough) (cough)... Well you get the idea....LOL
Franken will make a darn good politician. He is funny, well liked, well respected, has leftist views and best of all Rush hates him...LOL
This is a great day for America.......
VOR
Last time we had a Democratic Super Majority was in 1979 and you saw how that worked out.
Democrats own the government. They are 100% responsible for the direction of the country. The American people are watching and have the opportunity to change their government every two years. Democrats better hope their out of control spending and tax hikes pull the economy out of its tailspin in less than 16 months.
bushlover
[you sometimes post some very rational, open-minded posts. It's just that sometimes you don't realize the hypocrisy of some posts.]
Classic parallels posted by the master himself. Keep on commenting on US politics when your opinion will basically amount to squat.
Molenir
And now we can really deny the rights of all the Americans who disagree with us. Whahoo! We can't wait to really grind you guys down now. Lets all cheer! Now no one can or will stop the spending spree!
SiouxGirl
Thing is, a day or so after the election Coleman said that Franken should do what's right for the state of MN, concede that Coleman won and not file a lawsuit. And then what does Coleman do? File lawsuits. For the past 7 months. I'm not worried about whether the liberal progressives will ultimately come out victorious. The younger generation will fill our ranks and the old guard will die off, along with the old beliefs. Me, I'm not a liberal progressive. I'm a leftist. I'll do whatever I need to do to win, short of violence. Viva la Franken!
zurcronium
Sailwind . . .
You have got to be kidding. Either you are troll of you are hopelessly clueless as to the tactics of the rightwing loser crowd. Tune into any radio show from the empty right and in five minutes you will hear such bile and filth directed to democrats. Every day and in every way. But when the liberals turn the lights on the oreillys and limbaughs they turn into jello.
Yes molenir the democrats are in control now. Lets think back a few years ago to when the repubs held all power. Hum, two failed wars, government debt massive, economy collapsed, immorality at all levels, war crimes, corrupting government with church, spying on americans, phony energy crisis, phony invasions, torture, outing CIA spies and non-stop lying. The bar is set low by the repubs now for the progressive democrats to somehow raise from below the mud.
Ah its great to see the criminals out of power now and for the good to inherit the earth.
VOR
the problem zurc is that when we supposedly hit rock bottom, the donks started digging again. anybody that believes the democrats are the answer are just fools ready to be taken advantage of or sitting around waiting for a handout.
zurcronium
vor,
like citibank and aig and halliburton? If you want to look for welfare waste look to corporate corruption and not the nonsense empty reagan slogans from 30 years ago. $3 trillion for the failed war in Iraq. That is trillion. Nothing else even comes close in terms of waste. Brought to you by your in the closet or cheating on their wives repug love and crimes party.
TokyoHustla
America is now electing comedians as Senators? In the great tradition of Reagan, Bush, Eisenhower, Ford and Nixon? These men pioneered stand up comedy before becoming jokes as Presidents. Good thing the Democrats are not yet braced for the backlash: Palin/Plumber 2012 will take the election with Dick Cheney as Secretary of State/Overlord of America. God bless Republicans!
TokyoHustla
Remember people, every time Sarge makes a prediction, the election goes the other way. He is the most accurate predictor of election losers I have ever seen.
yabits
LOL!! Go back to 1929 and 2008 and look at what Republican control of the White House and Congress did for the nation: Navigated it into the two of the greatest economic calamities in human history.
I just bet you Republicans are itching to grind the country down again!
SiouxGirl
Actually, MN had Jesse Ventura as Governor. At least Franken's funny. Coleman's a member of the old boys club and will do whatever the voices tell him. And he's not funny.
JoeBigs
Ah rights, what a lovable concept, yes that fabled word that we nearly lost under the grasp of the far right.
But here you are mistaken Molenir, you can put away your patented aluminum cap. Right shall not be taken away. Your right to bare arms shall not be with held. Our President shall not order his troops to raid everyone's houses to remove all guns.
I find it funny how the far far right has this idea that what the Turner diaries says will come to pass. But, our Constitution is stronger than your worries.
Now our nation moves to the left to correct the damage the far right did to our nation. Then if the far left damages our nation the same thing will happen but in the reverse.
Isn't our Constitution great?
inkjet
at least we don't have to hear the libs crying about another stolen election.
JoeBigs
Nope, now the far right is crying bloody murder!!!LOL Funny Coleman loses the election but takes it to court. While Gore did not drag it out. See the difference between a Republican and a Democrat?LOL
LFRAgain
SezWho,
You're absolutely right. Minnesotans voted for the "other guy" in both the 1980 and '84 presidential elections, although the margin of victory was narrow in both, much like in in the Franken/Coleman race. What is it about Minnesotans that they tend to be more middle of the road (read: moderate) than so many other Americans?
Hmm . . . Something for the GOP (and Democrats) to ponder for the future.
Thanks for the correction.
BTW, did you hear the Dems got 60 votes in the Senate?
yabits
No. It was the conservatives crying like stuck pigs that Gore was trying to steal the election. Conservatives banging on doors and screaming to stop counting legally-cast ballots.
In Minnesota, since the Republican was behind, we liberals waited and waited patiently for the democratic process to work itself out. Conservatives are the only ones who believe that people can't be trusted to tally legally-cast ballots. Conservatives are the ones who would try to claim that on a ballot with the name "Al Gore" handwritten on it and no hole punched that the intent of the voter can not be determined.
inkjet
how's life in the alternate universe joe?
inkjet
yabit,
what the heck are you talking about?
even this site is full of people still whining about the stolen gore election.
i have to laugh the dems were in power. they had the power of the justice department behind them to uncover any illegal vote rigging. nothing. but sure the libs found plenty on their own. now maybe if michael moore was running the justice department real justice would have been done.
even when they win it all they just can't stop whining.
LFRAgain
inkjet,
What the heck are YOU talking about?
Al Gore, rather than tying up the election in continuous legal challenges (as Coleman did),including a challenge to the constitutionality of the Supreme Court's decision to end the ballot counting, an action to which he was legally entitled, gracefully - yes, gracefully - conceded defeat. The historical record shows this very clearly. To say otherwise, or to claim that he put up a stubborn and unjustified fight is simple dishonesty.
JoeBigs
Actually if it were an alternate universe Al Gore would have disputed the ruling and backed the anti confirmation block of Democrats and fought the results of the Supreme Court decision.
Now that would have been an alternate universe.
But Al Gore did what he did for our nation, like a true Patriot. While Coleman only thought of party and said to hell with the people of Minnesota. But facts are fact Coleman dragged it out while Gore did not. So, wait have to pinch self, yep we are still living in this existence.LOL
Since you want to talk about alternate universes......I wonder how much better we would have been off if Gore did win. At least he believed that Bin Ladin was a threat....Hmmm I wonder if he would have taken the CIA threat more serious than ole W did?LOL
smithinjapan
inkjet: "at least we don't have to hear the libs crying about another stolen election."
Hahaha! This, after 8 MONTHS of the Republican screaming foul until he FINALLY conceded. I'd say 'hypocrisy', but that doesn't even BEGIN to cover it.
inkjet
this is hysterical. how were they going to challenge that? get michael moore to take the case?
BeaverCleaver
The tail end of this thread shows that non-conservative posters here clearly understand the sick, twisted and disgusting tactics of the conservative playbook. Just remember them, because they have a tendency to lurk back into the shadows until needed again by their dark masters. If we forget, they will be useful again in another couple years. Remember, and teach others with clarity and without venom, so that we may always be prepared to protect ourselves from this kind of self-serving, emotional, hypocritical and ignorant appeal. It warms my heart to see here so many of those tactics drug out into the sunlight and outed for what they are.
JoeBigs
Have you ever read the Constitution?
Do not know if you know this or not but Congress can step in and accept or decline any election. It has the power to vote in place of the people if an election is contested.
This is a q and a that may help you out.
What role does Congress play in a contested presidential election? Has it ever had to elect a President or Vice President? The U.S. Congress has two roles to perform in the case of a contested presidential election: (1) to officially count the ballots and announce the results of the Electoral College votes for President and Vice President, and (2) to elect the President and Vice President if the Electoral College fails to do so. If a majority does not materialize in support of one candidate, the House and Senate, pursuant to the Constitution, are to proceed immediately to an election for president and vice president, known formally as a "Contingent Election." In a Contingent Election, the 12th Amendment to the Constitution states the House of Representatives shall choose the President, by ballot. It further states that the U.S. Senate shall elect the Vice President. The House has elected a President twice. In 1801, the House of Representatives elected Thomas Jefferson, after 36 rounds of balloting. In 1825, it elected John Quincy Adams, after one round of balloting. The Senate has elected one vice president in U.S. history. It elected Richard Mentor Johnson to be Vice President in 1837. He was President Martin Van Buren's Vice President.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.overview.html
BeaverCleaver
sailwind-"Serious Question..........All politics aside, and I'm going to modify your question just a little bit to make my point.
How exactly do you describe regular church goers who lap up the crap Rev. Wright spews?"
I do not have an answer to that yet, but I think the important thing is to realize the difference between listening to a man and deciding for yourself (something I have done with Limbaugh and Obama does with Wright) and lapping up what he spews (something Limbaugh's audience in the studio seems to do as well as some posters here. I do not know enough about Wright's audience to comment, let alone his goals and views.)
But for arguments sake, let us assume that the men are exactly the same kind of filth, men using smaller truths to erect a monolith of self-serving political deception and hate. One man is for the conservatives and one for the liberals. Here is the kicker question: Which of these evil men enjoy a larger audience among those they target? In other words, which side has more thralls to an evil man? Limbaugh is the runnaway winner of the filth race. Clearly huge amounts of conservatives adore the jerk.
I think it is safe to say that Franken subscribes to neither man, just like most liberals don't.
sailwind
I think Reverend Wright spews a bunch of crap from his pulpit. I think Rush spews a bunch of crap from his radio program.
I think both men have been doing their 'gig' for years now.
The difference is I don't demonize both men. I don't think he or Reverend right is "evil". I don't post my so called superior "intellectual" credentials and then resort to childish cartoon silliness to demonstrate my point.
I'll say it again. I have always been perplexed why the left always results to insults if someone doesn't agree with their position. I also have to say, you think your exposing the "conservative" gameplan here?
I suggest you re-read the thread. I'd start with Rush is "evil" in your last post with really nothing to back, that up with but the fact you just don't like the guy.
I've been posting here for years now. The left spews more insults then any Conservative poster does here by far. This thread is a perfect example. Wait till a story is about Palin in the future here. The word "Dolt" will be in the first or second comment as sure as the sun comes up.
Class act the majority of the liberals are here on J.T.
inkjet
of course the state legislature can over ride the vote in the state. the florida legislature already made it clear they were ready to certify the vote. there is no way in hell the us congress was going to over ride the supreme court and name a new president. you have to be joking. right?
fat al conceded because fat al had run out of viable options. period.
the thing i found so hysterical was you saying al didn't fight it. that's just too funny.
and your responses here just prove my point. 9 years later and you are all still whining about it.
BeaverCleaver
sailwind-"The left spews more insults then any Conservative poster does here by far."
And I told you why. I don't care how polite someone is with their misdirection, red herrings, mistaken facts and selfish alterior motives. There is a point where I am just going to have had enough of seeing the wagon train get driven in circles over and over again and get mad. Its like being subjected to Gomer Pyle or Barney Fife day in and day out, and reactions are bound to be more like Sgt. Carter over time than those of Andy Griffith.
inkjet
the left are tolerant of other views as long as they agree with them.
inkjet
i agree with a lot of what you say. but i wonder if you ever listened to rush's show. it sounds like you are buying the spin the media puts on it. there is no way you can compare wright to rush.
i'm a casual listener. while driving in my car i cruise all the stations. whenever i hear rush his is always polite. he never yells. he never spews hate. or racist remarks.
he's does says plenty of politically incorrect things. nothing like wright.
i bring this up because i think there is a witch hunt by the left to destroy the rush. there are people who comb through every word he says hoping to find something to use against him. they should be able to provide evidence of his hateful spewing. can you supply me with an example?
i'm really open to being convinced here.
sailwind
Inkjet,
I use to like Rush back in the earlier 90's (Gee, the guy has been around that long saying the same things now as he did then) but all of the sudden he is evil incarnate. Moral relativism from the left once again. Well, since Bush is gone time to kick the tires under Rush now as the republican villain now, as if they just discovered the guy. He was instrumental in the Republican Revolution that sent the Dem's packing and Clinton being stuck with a Republican House and Senate for the last six years of his term at that time he made good sense and it is obvious by the congressional election results during Clinton's term, that the majority of the American people thought so also. I quite paying any real attention to Rush about 6 years ago, when he didn't stand up for real Conservative values that he once did. The Republicans under Bush became what they swore they would never be. Big Government spenders and borrowers. They became Democrat lite, a little milder version of big daddy Government. Rush, went with the flow. To me, he abandoned his Conservative principles and also became drunk with power. It happens but I really lost any real interest in what he had to say anymore on politics. He at least to me was more interested in himself and his ego than in what really got people to listen to him in the first place. You are correct though. I have never heard the man really spew anything hateful (stand by the Daily Kos Kiddies and the Talking Points Memo crowd here will start providing reams of evidence to the "vile" things he has said).
BeaverCleaver
inkjet-"the left are tolerant of other views as long as they agree with them."
No. The intolerance begins when the right starts doing things like disputing simple facts. Its not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with them, its a matter of the right, people like Limbaugh, twisting facts to fit what they want to see, and doing it because they simply will not accept defeat when they are clearly lost or accept blame when they are clearly at fault or practice any manner of consistency if it could mean a loss. The left is also sometimes guilty of those, but for the right it is far more common, as is blatant hypocrisy.
Coleman disputing this for 8 months is a clear combination of many of the above, as is the avoidance of the fact in this thread. The time when those supporting the right or Coleman, to simply say "I am embarrassed this went on so long and glad its over even if my team lost.", is long gone. Even so, doing it now would still be a whole lot better than continuing with this charade.
teleprompter
BeaverCleaver:
Gosh Beav, ya sound like listen to El Rushbo alot. Heck, ya sound like ya tune in everyday even. I betcha could give us some examples couldn't ya, instead of just offerin, you know, generalizations an' stuff.
BeaverCleaver
sailwind-"He was instrumental in the Republican Revolution that sent the Dem's packing"
And of course just winning is more important than how it was done, right?
The only other thing I might take issue with your post is the idea that Rush never spewed hate. I doubt he ever suggested shooting a lefty, but what he says sure cannot be taken to be a love for all Americans.
So, other than those, the post certainly shows you are capable of reflection, and I respect that.
inkjet
like the stated fact gore didn't fight the election results.
come on get over it. so coleman contested a very, very close race. franken would have contested it too. just like fat al did. this is all baloney.
LFRAgain
inkjet,
You never really explained how or why you think Al Gore put up a fight that in any way mirrors the refusal of Coleman to give up for seven months. I genuinely would like to hear your take on the events that transpired and how the Franken/Coleman race bears any resemblance.
Also, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the constitutionality of the Supreme Court effectively choosing the winner of a presidential election, as opposed to the US Congress – and of course, it would really help if you provided something substantial to back up your argument, like a link to the Cornell Law School, for example. In particular, I'm hoping for something with more teeth than an emphatic "there is no way in hell" or "you must be joking."
I know, I know. It's just so darn tiring that “intellectual elite snobs” continually rely on something so arduous and intrusive as The Law to buoy our arguments, but please bear with us; it’s in our nature to want a little more proof in certain matters. (Damn that secular, liberal, public education system for teaching us the rules of presenting an argument . . . )
LFRAgain
Sailwind,
I used to listen to Rush back in the '90s as well, and he was offensive, divisive, and inflammatory then as well. Nothing has changed about how I feel about him other than my shock that now up to 15 million listeners tune in to his show regularly.
inkjet
they sped up the process because the timing of the presidency is more critical than a senator for starters.
al gore took it all the way to the supreme court. maybe coleman should try that too. what do you think?
the supreme court did not choose anybody. the found the election rules of florida are a state matter. the florida courts had decided there had been enough recounts. the supreme court refused to over turn that. a reasonable conclusion. unless of course the only outcome you could accept is your guy winning.
JoeBigs
Typo? I was talking about the Constitution and what the Congress does when it comes to Presidential election and not state elections.
You really need to read the Constitution, it does not matter what a State says or wants to say when it comes to a Presidential election.
Congress trumps everyone when it comes to the election of the President.
inkjet will not give an answer all he does is skirt around the facts. Then when the facts are too much against him he does what most far righters do, dance some more.
He is attempting (to no avail) to defend the Coleman debacle by claiming that Al Gore did the same thing. But of course that is false and he can not defend his argument.
Hell he still thinks that the Supreme Court has the right to name a winner in a Presidential election. By the claims he has made he has proven that he has never read the Constitution.
Too bad, I believe that all Americans should get to know the Constitution and know how our Government works....
BeaverCleaver
"You never really explained how or why you think Al Gore put up a fight that in any way mirrors the refusal of Coleman to give up for seven months."
That is because he can't. Nothing Gore did can be counted as putting up a fight by any criteria with any sense whatsoever. But his continued insistance on this completely asinine line of accusation and insane comparison, just like a lot of conservatives hold to, is what drives people like me to anger and insults. I do not care if this stupidity is Forrest Gump-like innocently brought about anymore. My nice demeanor is gone, gone, gone, and who could blame me?
All Gore did was ask for a recount in four lousy counties, which is his right and clearly spelled out. The rest was all automatic and nothing to do with any demands by Gore. When the court made its decision, which Gore never asked for, he conceeded. The end.
Norm Coleman has filed 2 separate legal claims on the election. Gore filed exactly zero.
Here is where I suspect Telemprompter changes the subject to "Gore is weak for not fighting". This garbage makes me hopping mad. Sure enough. This is where I start questioning whether some people should have a legal right to speak, when they only use it to derail discussion and try to score some cheap points no matter the cost.
inkjet
did you ever listen to al fraken's (failed) show on air america? talk about offensive, divisive and inflammatory. and you guy voted him to the senate. geez.
inkjet
you need to read my answer.
BeaverCleaver
inkjet-"al gore took it all the way to the supreme court."
He did no such thing. The court decision was called bush vs. gore. If Gore had brought it, it would be Gore vs. ___!
In fact, neither candidate took the case anywhere. The courts are obligated to review such situations, and so they did.
Let me guess, Limbaugh told you Gore did this?
BeaverCleaver
inkjet-"did you ever listen to al fraken's (failed) show on air america? talk about offensive, divisive and inflammatory. and you guy voted him to the senate. geez."
It started in 2004, a complete and delayed reaction to Limbaugh. Limbaugh set the whole tone of offensive, divisive, and inflammatory, so while I never listened to Air America, I don't give one fig if its true. Limbaugh started it.
Its never going to be as popular as Limbaugh's show, but it has not failed. If its not as popular as Limbaugh, its because liberals can actually think for themselves and are not mindless zombies like so many in Limbaugh's audience.
inkjet
ok. it was 9 years ago. and i don't stay awake at night worrying myself about it.
from wikipedia
On November 26, the state canvassing board certified Bush the victor of Florida's electors by 537 votes. Gore formally contested the certified results, but a state court decision overruling Gore was reversed by the Florida Supreme Court, which ordered a recount of over 70,000 ballots previously rejected by machine counters. The U.S. Supreme Court quickly halted the order. On December 12, the Supreme Court ruled in a 5–4 vote that the Florida recounts could not be completed before a December 12 "safe harbor" deadline, and should therefore cease and the previously certified total should hold. The court also ruled 7–2 that the Florida Supreme Court's ruling requiring a statewide recount of ballots was unconstitutional.
the bottom line is gore fought it to the end.
teleprompter
BeaverCleaver:
I'm not gonna change the subject, Beav. Swear I won't. Heck, ask Gus the Fireman if ya don't believe me.
I basically got the same question as I had before:how often do you listen to Rush Limbaugh?
BeaverCleaver
"from wikipedia"
From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_2000
I missed the bit about Gore contesting the results. I might have to say Gore filed one legal complaint after all. But not really a surprise. He asked for recounts, in a mere four counties, as was his right, and he did not get them. What he got were the old tallies, and the excuse was deadlines. Calling it "contesting the results" is a mischaracterization. They were never recounted as was required. He was contesting the lack of a recount. And at only the state court level.
"Miami-Dade eventually halted its recount and resubmitted its original total to the state canvassing board, while Palm Beach County failed to meet the extended deadline."
This is just before your cut and paste. Gore never got the recount he was entitled to.
Coleman got his recount and still whined, on, and on.
"the bottom line is gore fought it to the end."
No, he didn't. He never took it "to the supreme court" at either the state or federal level, as you asserted earlier. He never exercised the legal options that Coleman did. Coleman really did take it to the state supreme court. Coleman really did fight to the end and drug it out as long as could, and despite getting nearly all that he asked for.
All I can criticize Franken for is getting the number of absentee ballots Coleman wanted counted reduced. But even with the added ballots counted, Franken only gained more votes!
BeaverCleaver
"I basically got the same question as I had before:how often do you listen to Rush Limbaugh?"
I listened to the idiot three or four times back when he played this song, whenever that was.
http://humor.beecy.net/songs/Elvis/
I do not disagree with everything he says. What I disagree with most is his over-all intent, which is to gain an audience. This he does not by reflection or gettin facts straight, but to numb the brains of his audience with more biased emotional storytelling and ad hominem attacks than fact or fairness, and the result is to divide the country by sowing mistrust with his compelling but no less unfounded claims based on thin proofs, such as anecdotes. He is a master of simpleton, and there are many across the land who fall for such thin proofs despite Limbaugh being found to intentionally misleading time and again. I could see all this right away, and that was despite agreeing with some things he said and laughing at some of his jokes and use of other people's humor, such as the song "In a Yugo".
Franken is wrong to call him an idiot, because he is not really an idiot. But the insult and ill will are well placed, and that was all Franken meant to convey I believe.
teleprompter
Real convincing, Beav.
Say - what radio station did ya catch him on?
BeaverCleaver
"Say - what radio station did ya catch him on?"
I have no idea. I do not listen to the radio much, and certainly not A.M. And I remember content a lot better than names and radio channels. Being more expat than Stateside roaming American, I had never even heard of the guy until I was flipping through channels for whatever reason I was doing so. I think I bought a car that only had AM. It took me a while to even connect the show the man. Some people were surprised when I told them my impression of Limbaugh. I am more fair to some things he says than many around me were. They hated him and they did not know why. I gave him the most fair shake possible. Did not even know who he was!
If you think you are so important to me that I would take the time to cook up a lie for you, think again. I don't really care if you think I am lying. That is how you know I am honest. Its not worth the effort. In between typing I am too busy digging up details anyway.
teleprompter
Beav - ya know what I think? I think you're fibbin'.
BeaverCleaver
Madverts-"Right-Wing-A$shole-FM?"
AM. I expect you have not listened to him and are not sure why you hate him. Take the time. Know your enemy. See how he leads simpletons with cherry picking facts and thin anecdotes from a few "honest ordinary Americans". Listen to him insult vindictively, then gloss it all over with some humor. He says the word "liberal" at a faster rate than Adolf Hitler said "Jews", and he is attracting the same type of people to his rants as Hitler did in much the same ways.
BeaverCleaver
teleprompter-"Beav - ya know what I think? I think you're fibbin'."
I don't care what you think. I only wish to combat the kind of scourge you represent.
teleprompter
BeaverCleaver:
Hmmm. Only had AM ya say?
Hey - was it a Yugo?
Is that why ya got all sore about the song, Beav?
LFRAgain
Inkjet,
Ho.
Ly.
Crap.
Re-read what you posted, then please reconcile it with your response to my request.
You essentially proved the above (and yourself) wrong with the paste-up from Wiki. The Florida courts had NOT decided that there had been enough recounts. In fact, the Florida Supreme Court ruled that a recount was in order, a ruling that was countermanded by the US Supreme Court.
Your statement that the US Supreme court deferred to Florida election laws: WRONG.
Your statement that “they” (whoever “they” are) “sped up the process because the timing of the presidency is more critical than a senator for starters:” Patently WRONG. Please look up the term “safe harbor deadline.”
Your statement that the US Supreme Court refused to turn over the decision of the Florida courts: Blatantly WRONG.
Your statement that Al Gore took his case before the US Supreme Count: Woefully, painfully, ignorantly WRONG. The Bush/Cheney team petitioned the Supreme Court.
You are WRONG on virtually every account or recollection of the 2000 Presidential Election you’ve addressed.
And you had the AUDACITY to suggest that another poster was living in an alternate reality, when you aren’t even aware of the facts of the argument?!?
DUDE!! WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?
helloklitty
I quite like Jesse Ventura. He has a new book out: Don't Start the Revolution Without Me He recently expressed his views on waterboarding saying that the information gained from torture is "garbage." We can find more info by not torturing.
He was a pro wrestler, but I'm sure you know he was also a Navy Seal. How many people can make it into the Seals? Voting for him is nothing to be ashamed of.
inkjet
LFRagain
calm down bro, you're going to blow a gasket.
9 yeas later and still they are still hysterical.
ok ok. like i said it was 9 years ago. my memory is a little vague. remember i haven't obsessed over this every day.
my basic point is, yes fat al did challenge it in court. and he took the fight all the way to the supreme court. that was my 'alternative universe' charge. big joe insisted fat al didn't 'fight it.' the sequence of events, whose actions forced the other to which court, got a little fuzzy in my head. no biggie.
the bottom line is fat al challenged florida. it went to the supreme court. fat al said if the supreme court ruled against him he would concede. he did. now please calm yourselves down. i don't believe it's healthy to use so many capitalized letters.
LFRAgain
Let's see if the sledgehammer works any better. Here we go, all-caps, bold-type:
AL GORE DID NOT TAKE ANY FIGHT TO THE SUPREME COURT. AL GORE DID NOT CHALLENGE THE FLORIDA COURTS.
The only reason the case was heard before the US Supreme Court at all is because the BUSH CAMPAIGN petitioned the Florida Supreme Court, the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals and the U.S. Supreme Court to reverse the Florida Supreme Court's decision to order a statewide recount, and the reason there was a recount in the first place was because Florida Election law mandated a recount in the case of contests with slim margins of victory, as per Florida Election Code 102.141(4).
Dear god, man, even when you're admitting you're wrong, you're still WRONG!!
You sit there blithely typing away about matters of our democratic process, acting as though you've somehow got a superior grasp on the way it all works and plays out, and the simple truth is YOU HAVEN'T AN INKLING OF WHAT THE HELL YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. No biggie?! " . . . the sequence of events, whose actions forced the other to which court, got a little fuzzy in my head. HOLY BEJEEZUS, stay the hell out of law, for Pete's sake. You'd just be making it up as you go along anyway. I know people still clinging to Lehman Bros. stock that has more credibility than you right now.
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/election/electiontime.htm
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/election/electionsup.htm
http://www.eagleton.rutgers.edu/e-gov/e-politicalarchive-2000.htm
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/election/00836-1a.pdf
BeaverCleaver
Tele- "Hey - was it a Yugo?
Is that why ya got all sore about the song, Beav?"
How inane! No, I believe it was an Eagle Talon, also known as a Mitsubishi Lancer. Black, sleek and a stick shift. I miss her. Then again it might have been the Ford van. Can't recall. Never had a Yugo. I thought the song was hilarious, which is why I posted a link to it. Purchase of any small car is dangerous though. The Yugo was fine if you performed the regular maintenance I hear, and the cheapskates that bought it refused. It was no more dangerous than any other small car.
And now I post a link to Limbaugh. Anyone who has not listened to this liar should. Here he uses the tactics of claiming there was never a retraction about one Jesse MacBeth when their was, paints the whole left as holding him up as a hero when they didn't, and changes his words "phoney soldierS" plural into the singular to try and cover up his very strong implication that soldiers against the Iraq war were "phoney". He is as dishonest as they come.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm84gOXkZaY&feature=related
BeaverCleaver
"DUDE!! WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?"
I am guess it was listeing to and believing the poison of Rush Limbaugh. It is much easier that dealing with the burdens of free will and individual thought.
inkjet
"After the circuit court defeats, Mark Fabiani, a spokesman for Gore, said: "Our focus is where it has been all along: Our case is before the Florida Supreme Court. We frankly had no great hopes based on (the cases in Seminole and Martin counties) and we never joined them. We remain confident in our case before the Florida Supreme Court."
why were they in court?
inkjet
from 'democracy now'
'Flanked by American flags, Gore addressed the nation last night, casting himself as a defender of democracy and the Constitution, and asking people for patience as he contested the presidential vote in Florida. Gore’s lawyers yesterday filed a lawsuit challenging the certified Florida results.'
in big joe's universe that never happened. there was no fight.
BeaverCleaver
"All I can criticize Franken for is getting the number of absentee ballots Coleman wanted counted reduced. But even with the added ballots counted, Franken only gained more votes!"
Oh, yeah! I think even the Republican with the lowest IQ of them all probably knows that absentee ballots are guaranteed to go Democrat. Duh! So was it a demand for the democratic process to be completed or was it to block the super majority? Yeah, I think even the dumbest Republican knows the answer to that too!
BeaverCleaver
inkjet, you are not helping your case at all. Article snippets contain spin. Everybody knows this. The excuse that you followed the spin in the wrong direction seriously does not help you. Again, the point where one should concede defeat has long passed.
Gore's case went to the Supreme Courts though no eforts by Gore. They got there by decision of the courts and then by Bush. Gore was there because he was summoned and because people were counting on him.
I found no evidence to make me think that bush vs. gore was brought by Bush myself, so I did not make that accusation. Apparently, it was just so according to LFRagain's info. How could anyone support a man who wanted to stop recounts? I simply cannot abide by that. Double checking results is basic common sense. Only a complete rat would ever try to block a double a checking of the facts.
At least neither Coleman nor Franken ever tried to stop the recounts.
Sarge
How much are the lawyers making on this?
Sarge
Hooray! Another Democrat in the Senate! This will help to guarantee a rubber stamp for Obama's policies!
zurcronium
The phants spent $2 million to delay the election closure with of course no change in results. Sore losers and obstructionists. The Minnesota election was clean as a whistle as opposed to the Florida contrived failure that lead to the boy blunderer bush wrecking the country for the last eight years.
But now the republicans are moving on since they have become the argentina love party. I say Gov. Sanford for President in 2012. He knows how to make a love connection just like the other hypocrite republicans.
sailwind
Actually after I have really thought about this.
Al Franken, Minnesota your stuck with the guy as your Senator for the next 6 years,
Good luck
inkjet
November 23, 2000 • On Thanksgiving Day, Al Gore's campaign files papers with the Florida Supreme Court, asking the judges to force Miami-Dade County to resume its manual recount. The Florida Supreme Court rejects Gore request to require a resumption of the recount.
i never claimed to be an expert on the case. i followed it very closely at the time. but clearly gore made legal challenges. i don't blame him. or coleman. if you think you have a case go for it. it's all the whining that i can't take.
it's funny, bush's lawyer and gore's lawyer are working together in california at the moment. on the same side! i wonder if gore's lawyer whines about the case?
zurcronium
franken made a living out of telling jokes, coleman made a living out of being a joke.
MN is much better off now than in the last six years with rubber stamp bush appointee coleman.
jhk
So by the above examples we can see how heated and sensitive election issues can be, even if they were ages ago, and even without an outside country meddling with US affairs.
So when Iran calls the US or UK meddling "intolerable", I think I can see where they might coming from.
inkjet
it just makes it sound like the mullahs are even bigger whiners than the dems.
BeaverCleaver
Inket, I told you the articles were not helping you. Perhaps if you had an inkling of how courts work, it would help you avoid the spin of the articles. Yeah, Gore filed papers with the Supreme Court. It does not mean he took the case there. It just means he was involved in a case there. Everybody files papers when they are involved. Was he supposed to just give up?
And where are you getting these cut and pastes? You are so good and cut and pastes, how about cutting a pasting a link? That might help us identify the spinners and their intent.
"it just makes it sound like the mullahs are even bigger whiners than the dems."
Since its Republican whining we are talking about here, I think you made a typo. First Bush stopping a routine recount, then Coleman whining all the way to the Supreme Court.
JoeBigs
And the crowd rejoices and yells,"We want 75!".....OoooOOOoooo 60 majority..
Do not hold your breath trying to get anything but a run around with good ole inkjet. He only see what he wants to see. Just let him speak and everyone will see what he knows.
He likes to use the Karl Rove tactic of,"If you shout real loud they wont hear the other guy" but of course everyone see what he is trying to do....LOL
I never understand why the far right tries to hijack threads.....lol
Sarge
"And the crowd rejoices and yells,"We want 75!"
As the unemployment rate hits a 26 year high... LOL
teleprompter
Politics aside I say good for Franken. Living the American dream. His talents took him to a position of great power from which he can do a lot of good. Minnesota has an economy roughly the size of Norway, and I'd wager Senator Franken is already more "famous" than the leaders of the many Commonwealth nations that posters on this site are from. So while I may disagree with some of my compatriots here I'm sure sezwho and BeaverCLeaver will readily admit Franken, like us, is truly blessed to be American.
inkjet
no. but you should.
yabits
Bush momentum.
inkjet
that trump card is about to be played out. get ready.
teleprompter
It wasn't Bush who rammed the 1 trillion dollar anti-stimulus Donk special interest group vote buying Porkulus through in 3 days and in almost total secrecy.
inkjet
nassim taleb:
The government needs to deleverage debt and not try stimulus packages that will inflate assets, he said.
"What makes me very pessimistic in not seeing any leadership or awareness on parts of government on what has to be done, which is deleverage $40-to-$70 trillion," Taleb said.
"The monkey on our back is debt," he added.
isn't he one of the only economists to see the crash coming? he says it's getting worse.
maybe franken will finally talk some sense into obama. yeah right.
yabits
Can't be played out till the whole thing hits bottom. Everyone with more than half a brain knows President Obama inherited this awful mess.
teleprompter
Warren Buffet regrets backing Obama.
inkjet
wishful thinking i'm afraid. the faithful will of course give him a free ride.
the reality is people blamed the whole world wide mess on bush quite easily. with out any real evidence he had anything to do with it.
people will just as easily turn on obama. it's human nature. and in this case they will be able to point at some very clear actions on obama's part. he went radical. if you go radical it better work, ala reagan.
Sarge
It's going to take President Obama most of his two terms to fix everything Bush and Cheney screwed up. So he can't be blamed for anything bad that happens. But he can take credit for anything good that happens, because his policies are sound and work fast!
JoeBigs
Anyway we can get a link to where Buffet said that? I would love to read it in his own words.
Ah uh, so can you also provide us with some information on how our President has gone radical? LOL
Isn't that the way all politics works? Blame the guy before you and then take credit when something works?
But if our President does make two terms it will be on his merits.
Now back to the topic, I do not think our President has a full 60. I would rather call this 59.5. So let us see where we get on health care.
Hopefully with Franken in there the left will have enough votes to get the United States out of the clutches of the Insurance companies. Not to mention the AMA and their,"we must fight the Socialist" lobbying.......
inkjet
if you noticed i put reagan in that category too. so it wasn't really an attack per say. it seems pretty obvious his solutions have been pretty extreme. i would think that would make you proud.
in any case i'll provide more info on that once you supply me with proof al gore didn't challenge the election results in 2000. i can't be doing all the work around here.
jhk
I found the link for who you guys work for, its called the United States Special Activities Division in the CIA (acronym SAD). You work for the cyber warfare division.
"The political action group within SAD is responsible for covert activities related to political influence, psychological warfare, and economic warfare. The rapid development of technology has also added computer or cyber warfare to this type of operation."
This is your mission:
"If there are missions in countries that are denied to US military special operations forces, such as Pakistan or Iran, SAD/SOG units are the primary national special missions unit to execute those operations. [166]"
These are the missions you have been involved in throughout history:
"Tibet, Korea, Cuba, Bolivia, Vietnam, Laos, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Somalia, Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq"
Of course you will deny this, because:
"If they are compromised during a mission, the government of the United States often denies all knowledge."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Activities_Division
But your current mission, along with what Kissinger is saying, is to garner support for a regime change in Iran, and resources and cheap labor in North Korea (Kim Jong already knows this). Pull the wool over the eyes of people who are afraid of losing their jobs, and made to be fearful of other countries.
You waste Billions of dollars, meddling with Billions of lives, putting a Billion worldwide in poverty, for the Billionaires that control you. You are the biggest sell outs, and you have the nerve to post ads for ex-bankers. Your selling out your own people.
But there are Billions of us. We will eventually figure this out if we haven't already, and we will definitely not let you get away with this.
inkjet
is this a billy bragg song?
smithinjapan
"It wasn't Bush who rammed the 1 trillion dollar anti-stimulus Donk special interest group vote buying Porkulus through in 3 days and in almost total secrecy."
Maybe not, but it was bush that led to the need for it.
You guys really do just walk into these things.
smithinjapan
inkjet: "is this a billy bragg song?"
Nah... if it were it wouldn't make sense. Or at least, it would end with him trying to show a girl he liked in highschool how 'successful' he was now. haha.
LFRAgain
inkjet,
You’re getting twisted up in your own unique view of how events actually transpired again.
The relationship between the Gore/Bush race and the Franken/Coleman race was characterized by JoeBiggs at 08:58 AM JST - 2nd July this way:
You came back in response at 09:44 AM JST - 2nd July with this:
I, as well as other posters, called you on your suggestion that JoeBiggs was somehow making things up.
In fact, Coleman, in the face of an impending loss, took his case to court and refused to back down for seven months until the Minnesota Supreme Court put an end to it. Al Gore did not take his case before any court whatsoever, but rather spent the better part of the 5 weeks until the “safe harbor deadline” trying to get his original petition to the Florida Election Board heard in the face of numerous legal challenges from the Bush Campaign to prevent any recounts.
Al Gore: Five weeks and no legal petitions to any court.
Norm Coleman: Seven months and legal petitions to any court that would hear him, including a brief but nonetheless vocalized desire to take his case before the US Supreme Court, even after the Minnesota Supreme Court ruled valid the Election Board’s certification of Franken’s victory.
This argument isn’t about whether or not Gore put up a fight. Of course he put up a fight, as he was legally entitled to do. The point being made, however, is that Gore did not drag his fight out for seven months, as Coleman did.
By trying to backpedal over your numerous inaccuracies, misstatements, and pure falsehoods in this discussion by reinventing what we said is dishonest.
teleprompter
smithinjapan: "Maybe not, but it was bush that led to the need for it."
Yeah. Bush, he like, singlehandedly sent oil to 100bucks a barrel, somehow put in place legislation stretching back to the early 80s that literally forced banks to apply the Left's loony tune "affirmative action" practices to lending policies, and then personally rigged things so that over-leveraged markets (not just in America,mind you) would be most exposed to the novel uncertainties and threats of a now globalized marketplace.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot! - he stoled all a duh oil from da Iraqis (after he pulled off 9-11)!!!
There. Did I miss any of the Deep Thought you have been coming with here for years?
inkjet
it has to be hard being a liberal, with the weight of the world weighing down on your shoulders and all of that.
i never characterized coleman's fight. did i? i never characterized gore's either. i may have said i didn't blame either one for fighting, something along those lines. but i'm certainly not going to go back and comb over this thread to prove it.
my main points were:
1.big joe was living in an alternative universe for suggesting gore did not fight the election results. in other words drag it out. i provided evidence he did.
the libs are still whining about he 2000 election. you provided the evidence for that.thank you.
inkjet
here's your chance to educate us conservatives. and everyone else who may be confused.
exactly what was it that bush did which led to the world wide economic collapse?
thanks for your considered reply.
inkjet
who's off topic now?
BeaverCleaver
inkjet-"1.big joe was living in an alternative universe for suggesting gore did not fight the election results. in other words drag it out. i provided evidence he did."
All spin. Gore asked for a recount which was his right. He was denied his right. He did not fight "the results". He fought for "verification of the results". And he did not get it. Its not just semantics. The whole thing began by just asking for a recount in 4 counties, which he did not get. As usual, I start with the plain truth, not trying to squeeze anything out it. I occupy a non-biased position. From there, you try to jockey the whole thing toward what you want to see. For once in your life, just accept the truth. Gore did nothing wild and crazy or unreasonable.
That's true. But its not just that simple. There is good reason to whine and more than that, to remember. The point of an election is to determine the will of the people. The will of the people was to have Gore as president. But the will of the people is determined through ballots, which are imperfect. And because of ballots being tossed out, Bush got the election DESPITE the will of the voters. That is a fat problem. I will say that no matter who gets the election. I want all votes cast in fairness counted. But you will not ever say that unless it results in victory for your boy. You do not believe in democracy. You worship victory. That is the only way to be against a recount, besides utter stupidity. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, as a person who, like typical liberals, do what we can to start from truth and fairness rather than a biased position for the sake of self-serving tactical strength. This is not a war. Its an election. Too many of you on the right think everything is a war. Most everybody else is just reacting to that, even the center, because you types can't stand to lose.
The lessons of 2000 aided this election in Minnesota. I am glad they did the recounts and the detailed checking of contested ballots. But they could have done more I feel. But it is obvious to any monkey that Franken would only have gained more votes by counting all those absentee ballots. The will of the people was for Franken, though barely.
inkjet
attacking? i asked a question. very sensitive aren't we?
by the way if i wanted to 'attack' you why would i obey you? that too makes no sense.
inkjet
i know it's shocking.
inkjet
December 5, 2000 Web posted at: 1:56 a.m. EST (0656 GMT)
TALLAHASSEE, Florida (CNN) -- A Florida Court dealt a major blow Monday to Vice President Al Gore's legal efforts to challenge the results of Florida's presidential election.
Leon County Circuit Court Judge N. Sanders Sauls ruled that the evidence presented by Gore's legal team does not establish any gross negligence or fraud in the balloting process, or prove that alleged problems with the voting would have changed the outcome of the election.
i did not have sexual relations with that woman, i didn't inhale and i never challenged the results of the 2000 election.
ok i lied about the first two.
inkjet
ok then if you feel comfortable that i'm not attacking you. explain then why it is you think gore did not challenge the results of the election? if you site evidence please don't let it be LFR's eloquent slap down.
yabits
Anyone dense or intellectually dishonest enough to believe that the above, stupidly-written sentence portrays reality deserves very little in the way of slack.
Gore could not be challenging "the results" of the "election" in Florida, because no human being could actually know what the results were until every legally-cast ballot (requested on a county-by-county basis, per Florida law) was physically examined by the most accurate means possible (i.e. human inspection) to determine the intent of the voter. It's called the democratic process and it had been followed in every close, contested election since the birth of the country -- until the Republicans found a way to get their pals in the state to subvert the process by stopping any and all physical inspection of ballots.
Any simpleton knows that when you are confronted with the results of machine-tabluated balloting that is as razor-close as Florida's presidential electors of 2000 and the Minnesota senatorial race of 2008, you hand count. It is only natural that anyone who loves democracy would resist any and all attempts to block the inspection and tallying of legally-cast ballots.
Republicans have to perpretrate the big lie that in American democracy the way to steal an election is by counting the ballots, and so counting ballots must be forestalled in any close election when a Republican is ahead.
jhk
So the US has election accuracy problems, maybe there needs to be a regime change if Obama keeps bending over for Wall Street, selling out California, and wearing Bush's war panties. You guys are disgraceful and an embarrassment to your own people, if they haven't already started noticing.
I bet there is a higher likelihood of a regime change in the US than in Iran. You guys embarrass yourselves.
Taka313
Sez,
There's a good reason many Minnesotans are not a fan of reagan. First of all, Pres. Carter was good to family farmers, which make up a lot of Minnesota's rural population. And then in 1984, reagan ran against a Minnesotan. Of course he didn't carry the state. And if you mention reagan to a Minnesotan and they let you know that the man was an ass, it was because shortly after the election, reagan proposed putting nuclear waste sites in Minnesota. Fortunately, the idea was blocked by people (aided by young and vocal protesters :-) ) smart enough to realize burying nuclear waste in an area where most fresh water comes from underground springs was a bad idea. But hey, no one ever claimed reagan ever cared about the environment.
As for Minnesotans being conservative, I always assumed we were too. Hell, I always assumed I was conservative until I came to this site and found out that I'm an unwashed, hippy, baby killing, pot smoking, tree hugging traitor who has a man crush on saddam hussein and OBL. Anyway, Minnesotans are VERY conservative. Just not politically. Considering that mining (which is heavily unionized) and family farms make up the majority of the state, I'm shocked that Minnesotans ever allowed the GOP to get a temporary hold on our state.
Here I have to disagree with you. Every day that normie continued with his temper tantrum was another day in which the world saw the republican party putting the party ahead of the people. Every.Single.Day.
The MN republicans wanted him to go away weeks ago. Considering tim pawlenty needed to break a campaign promise to keep his job, letting this fiasco continue further painted him in the same light.
I REALLY think that after a liberal group started a campaign to raise "norm dollars," and raised $185,000 for liberal candidates (people volunteered to give a dollar a day to liberal candidates until norm conceded; they're slogan was "a dollar a day to make norm go away), the GOP saw the writing on the wall.
Anyway, it's great that Minnesota is now fully represented again and it's even better that norm coleman is no longer sullying the seat once occupied by Sen. Wellstone.
Taka
inkjet
i have the solution. get cnn to print a retraction and i'll be glad to accept my error.
zurcronium
Senator Franken. Sounds great. He really played out the republican stall tactics well by keeping composed and focused. He will be a the MN senator for a long, long time. The phants just better get use to it.
jhk
Lets have a celebration for Franken. I really, honestly, hope and pray he can do something for you guys.
I guess he constitutes the better arm or a leg of the overall Frankenstein called the United States of America.
Get your "freedom" fighters out of Afghanistan, quit twittering about Iran, send Carter to North Korea again, or else at least give North Korea a chance to put California out of its misery, because Obama really doesn't seem to care about it, its really disappointing.
BeaverCleaver
inkjet-"i have the solution. get cnn to print a retraction and i'll be glad to accept my error."
Your solution is a non-starter. I suggest learning how to read between the lines. The primary business of the media is not truth. Its making money. They invented spin primarily for that purpose, exaggerate and deceive for purposes of sales, not some liberal plot to control the nation.
If that was from CNN, its a perfect example of how they do thier best not to support a candidate, but rather, to inject as much drama as they can in a way the layman can understand even if it gives him the wrong idea. If you cannot read between the lines, then you need to slow your roll until you learn.
yabits
LOL! Exactly.
LFRAgain
inkjet,
Umm, actually, no. No, you didn't. In fact, you provided wholly inaccurate information, or as you casually painted it, "fuzzy" memories, and generally danced around every effort to point out your errors in each of your attempts to "prove" Gore dragged anything out, as opposed to Coleman.
Still, you seem to insist that challenging the results of an election and dragging out that challenge are one and the same thing. They aren’t. And it isn’t lost on anyone here that you are trying very, very, very hard to make it sound like that’s what you intended to say initially, when in fact, you were making a far different claim based on entirely false information.
Coleman dragged out a protracted legal battle to win, despite every indicator showing an ever-widening margin of defeat with every recount. Gore didn't. If ever the expression “quit while you’re behind” applied to a situation, it was Coleman’s. And considering how blatant your gaffs have been up to this point, complete with no small amount of backpedaling, it would almost certainly apply to your argument here as well. Show some testicular fortitude and just admit that you misspoke under mistaken assumptions. I promise won't hold it against you.
But let’s be clear about one thing here: I didn’t slap you down anywhere on this thread. You did that all by yourself.
zurcronium
Latest is that Coleman is going to run for governor of South Carolina since there will soon be an opening in that state.
The republican love party, parties on.
BeaverCleaver
Taka313 at 06:13 AM JST - 4th July
I never knew, or thought I would care to know, so much about politics in Minnesota. But that was a darn fine read. Thank you.
zurcronium
Senator Franken is now in DC and will be sworn in soon. That last vote to get real healthcare reform, fairer taxes on the rich, no more stupid wars, rebuilding the country that is falling apart and digging out from the crushing bush debt starts today.
The republicants will assume their natural role as whining obstructionists looking out for the welfare of the lost and lonely looser crowd. That is when they are not in Argentina hiking.
motytrah
My wife was a judge for the Recount. I know paid election workers who were in the Franken camp that did the election and the recount. The actual recount, including going over the ballets that had objections, was handled in under a month (weeks if you look at the actual amount of work time). The law is actually very specific about how to handle the recount.
The delay was purely because of the court procedure. The lawyers got very rich in this contest. And Coleman may be on the hook to pay a fair chunk of Franken's legal fees.
Franken is a flawed candidate. His own workers have said as much in private. But that doesn't take away the fact that he's not dumb and extremely shrewd. On the other hand Coleman was a democrat he switched sides to the republicans. So it's not like he's the second coming of St. Reagan.
From the standpoint on why Coleman lost the recount a lot of people think it's because of the people from the Republican Base (which came from around the nation to work the recount) were sub-par. One Franken worker described them to me as a bunch of "home schooled idiots" who got "way too emotional about every thing". As a result they were dropping the ball because they'd focus in on a single thing while the rest of the recount was passing by.