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Mosque to be built in Calif city after opponents' appeal denied

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Yet another victory for freedom of religion in the land of the free and the home of the brave.

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I have a feeling many of the people that shout about following the Constitution, are the same people who don't want mosques in America. Can't have it both ways guys.

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yabits:

" Yet another victory for freedom of religion in the land of the free and the home of the brave. "

Freedom of religion = the blanket excuse for a totalitarian political ideology to fly under the radar. Brilliant, really.

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WilliB.....You do realize that most Muslims in America are moderate and have help the US thrawt 1/3 of the terrorist plots after September 11th, right?

In fact, the would be Christian terrorist was turned in by his own family member or friend (Muslim).

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Muslims should thank USA for this freedom they get there. Muslims should fight with blind believers in their own community not with Christians or other religions. Muslims should give freedom to all Muslims to believe or not to believe in Islam. By force and threat do not keep any one in your religion. Give freedom. By doing this you can be a model to other hard line Muslim countries and communities. Lets understand if there is a God he is the creator of every human being and religion. There is no ONLY Muslim GOD and ONLY Christian GOD. Try to see things with God`s view not with your selfish views. GOD does not need any help of a Muslim human being to kill a non believer. If God can create all this universe he can kill a Non Muslim with out the assistance of a Islamic human being. But if you claim that you are doing it for ALLA and he asked you to do this ,then your ALLA is an impotent stupid creature with no brain. I am sure God is not that kind of being. Please try to understand it you Muslims and Christians..and all.

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Somalians terrorist at the Christmas lighting on the day after thanksgiving, I mean.

Not Christian terrorist.

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“We need to heal ourselves.”

I think I've had my quota of this notion.

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Better to keep them close in this Mosque, make sure the FBI etc..have it all rigged up, wire tapping etc..you know, just in case one of these silly hell bent terrorists hiding amongst innocents Muslims gets any ideas on say, trying to blow themselves up at LAX etc... Do not forget that LA is a big, juicy targets for these terrorists, Hollywood etc..it would make big headlines etc...

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That will not happen because it is fringment of privacy.

The only time the FBI may do so is because they have a "warrant" to do so.

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Of course it depends.

These mosque people seem to have no ties with terrorists.

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FruitBasket:

" Of course it depends. These mosque people seem to have no ties with terrorists. "

And how do you know that? Have they said that they accept democracy and put secular laws above Shariah laws? I don´t see anywhere in the article that anybody even asked them.

Instead, they get a cart blanche under the label of "religious freedom".

Moderator: Please do not use this discussion board to post anti-Islam rants. We have asked you to stop doing this before.

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Because they have been approved by the courts to build their mosque.

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If they were involved with terrorists, the court would order a restraining order or for the FBI to watch them.

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FruitsBasketFan:

" Because they have been approved by the courts to build their mosque. "

That is the point. Did the court ever ask them the pertinent questions? Of course not. The court naively applies the concept of "religious freedom" for everything that calls itself a religion.

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The court would not do that unless the Muslims were crying for Sharia law to be accepted (which these Muslims have not).

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Muslims should stop terrorist using the ISLAM and its teaching. Then all other religion will respect you as a religion. No terrorist come open and speak or fight for legal right or freedom.

Not to impose your laws to make others unhappy about your religion. Rather than making a $100 million USD mosque spend it for Charity at least for fellow Muslims in poor countries to learn about this world.

If Muslims have the freedom to worship in USA then USA give freedom to point the wrong doing of bad Muslims in this country. After all this is not Saudi Arabia they are making this $100 million mosque for 150 families where millions of numerous religious and non religious people live.

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Easier said than done.

Muslims are divided on what they believe in and cannot control what other people across the globe practiced.

It is silly punishing these Muslim in California and pointing the finger on them just because the Middle East does stupid radical interpretation of their religion because of their background theocratic governments.

Obviously, these Muslims must have come here for the religious freedom and not be enduring the radical practices from where they come from.

And do you even know how many is in a 150 families? That is about over 600 people!

And their children will grow to have children. This is why mosques want expansions. To meet the expanding numbers of their religion.

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Fruitsbasket:

" The court would not do that unless the Muslims were crying for Sharia law to be accepted (which these Muslims have not). "

And how do you know that? The article does not mention anybody asked them, and it is safe to assume the court did not.

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Then, "How do you know that these Muslims want Sharia law?"

The article said nothing about it.

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If there was concern for it, then the article would have most likely mentioned it and the court would have probably put the ruling on hold until they got to the bottom of this.

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So far there is only one style of Muslim worship. That is same in Soudi and in USA. If the Muslims in Calif have a different style which respect others freedom even to critizise Islamic evils, no sound polution and no imposed dress code etc.. Then OK. I welcome good Muslims who are ready to practice the TRUE QURAN ( not the one they interpret now).

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I don't see any problems with this mosque being built at all. Still don't like Islam, but this is nowhere near as touchy as the Islamic center in NYC.

@FruitsBasketFan, heres a rather ominous statement made by an African man in a non-islamic African state (If I remember right the majority was either christian or some other indegionous religion). When an Imam built a mosque in that state nobody was going because they didn't have any beliefs in Islam. So the man asked the Imam, "why did you build a mosque here that nobody will use?" and this Imam stated to him, "You may not go to this mosque, and your children may not go to this mosque, but your grandchildren surely will." Think about it a bit. Look at the goals of the OIC, and the Cairo Declaration of human rights, tag that along with an overwhelming 40% of muslims in the UK believe that shariah law is the way to go including those supposed "moderates". My uncle could be considered a "moderate" muslim until he tells you what he's really thinking.

I really wish that Islam was a nice normal belief system, then none of us wouldn't be having any discussion about it at all. But sadly in every nation that has a decent sized Islamic community there is some type of unrest or aggressive tactics on their end.

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Most American muslims let them decide how to dress.

The Muslim girls which come to my library take off their "headscarves" when they leave mosques while some still wear it because they choose to.

And they do not encourage killing non-believers because if any religion did that in the US, then the FBI will be knocking on the door.

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@WilliB

Freedom of religion = the blanket excuse for a totalitarian political ideology to fly under the radar.

From what I've witnessed, your anti-Islam point of view is as totalitarian as they come. The town I come from (Dearborn, MI) has plenty of mosques and I knew tons of Muslims going through school and in the neighborhood. I can't recall any as hardline as you are against them.

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And how do you know that? Have they said that they accept democracy and put secular laws above Shariah laws? I don´t see anywhere in the article that anybody even asked them.

That's a good question, WilliB, but it has nothing to do with approving the Mosque. Can you prove that you accept secular law? If you exceed the speed limit, then you do not accept secular law.

In any case, last time I checked, the burden of proof rests on the accuser, not on the accused. At least in America. Maybe not so much in Kuwait or North Korea. So your sentiment itself is un-American.

I will agree with your implication that Sharia is a potential threat to a secular society. For me that's the litmus test: Theocracies are inherently bad. I'd like to hear the Mosque builders answer that question, which is the biggest sticking point for Islam in a secular democracy.

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Mano Bakh, an Iranian-born U.S. citizen who rejected the Islamic faith of his childhood, founded a group called Concerned American Citizens to protest the planned mosque.

Sounds like he's trying to become the American Salman Rushdie.

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Nessie:

" That's a good question, WilliB, but it has nothing to do with approving the Mosque. Can you prove that you accept secular law? If you exceed the speed limit, then you do not accept secular law. "

If I exceeded the speed limit because my god told me there was none, and if kept pushing for a change in the constitution to adopt God`s speed limit, then yes, that would indeed be an issue. In the event, the conflict between Shariah and secular law are much more serious than a speeding ticket. They concern the fundamental human rights on which modern society is based.

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People say they're fine with Muslims as long as they worship peacefully and moderately, and then fight tooth and nail to prevent them from doing so in their communities. This is a big win for sanity and fairness.

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yabits:

" The town I come from (Dearborn, MI) has plenty of mosques and I knew tons of Muslims going through school and in the neighborhood. "

Ah yes, Dearborn, Michigan, home of the Hamas-related Islamic Center, its notorious Hamas-supporting islamic charities, the taxpayer-funded islamim footbaths at the university, gender-segregated sports clubs, countless death threats against critics, the ban against Hamas-critical speakers at he university... shall I go on?

And you wonder why citizens of Temecula could possibly be concerned about seeing all this sprouting in their community? How strange indeed.

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tolerance, should be a two way street and the approach many who in support of these mosques have taken is far from even.

People say they're fine with Muslims as long as they worship peacefully and moderately, and then fight tooth and nail to prevent them from doing so in their communities." Ok, would you support me putting up a church, jewish temple in the same neighborhood? There are a lot of reason to NOT just simply accept people so blindly. Right at this very moment, we have two high profile honor killing trials going in the US, we have the new imam of the NYC tobe Mosque saying some vulgar things... Stop, take a breath, and at least ask why is everyone so hyped over it.

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And as far as tolerance, why is PETA, a left leaning organization, so intolerant towards my mom's church?

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If you exceed the speed limit, then you do not accept secular law.

Wait, wha...t? Does that mean if someone transgresses sharia law they don't accept it? I.e. they refuse to recognize it as governing them? Wow, tell that to the people, here and there, who have been subject to stonings, honor killings, forced marriages, stifling dress codes, genital mutilation, etc. that hey, wait, all you had to do was reject the concept. Nice!

Theocracies are inherently bad.

No doubt. In fact, I'd go further. Ridicule religions for what they are --an intellectual scam.

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skipthesong, would I support a you putting up a church, Jewish temple in the same neighorhood? Yes, of course. Why in the world wouldn't I? Their right to worship their own religion is protected equally.

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Airion: I should have said would they? And, I am positive you've heard about people leaving Islam and what dangers they face.. If some sort of ordinance was put in place about that, or maybe about zero tolerance towards Shia law, or maybe the hateful rhetoric that comes out of many Imams, including the new one for the NYC mosque, or maybe something about polygamy and arranged marriages were erased, maybe we would have no leg to stand on.. but we do have a leg. Devil Worshippers, Witches, The KKK and all those other nutty groups have a legit right to practice what they believe in many places, doesn't mean I have to support it. You can debate me all you want, but I find Islam out of all religions, to be the least tolerant. So, I'm intolerant towards the intolerant. Doesn't mean I won't invite a Muslim to my house; my kids' nanny is Iranian and I trust her with my kids. Quit the hyperbole. Its really a concern, not intolerance.

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skipthesong, your problem is an inability, or unwillingness, to differentiate between the millions of Muslims out there. Some Muslims do some things you (rightfully) don't like, and then treat all other Muslims the same as you would those bad apples. It's intellectually lazy, and while that works out fine for you yourself, others out there suffer who are subjected to your stereotypes and intolerance.

And yes, I do think they would allow churches and Jewish temples in their California community. Although I assume by "they" you meant to suggest all those mean Muslims overseas, in which case the answer is no, but they're not the party in question here.

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WilliB: "They concern the fundamental human rights on which modern society is based."

One of those rights is the right to practice the religion you so desire, at least in the nation you're from. It's amusing to watch people such as yourself talk about how wonderful the US is and how evil Islam is and yet you want to deny them their fundamental rights; you're extremism is far worse than the people who want to build this mosque.

(from article) "After this decision, we all need to work together to restore the fellowship of the citizens,” he said. “We need to heal ourselves.”

You see, Willi? A much more rational, down to earth, and respectful comment than the attitude you have towards this man and his faith. So who's the real danger?

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skipthesong: "So, I'm intolerant towards the intolerant."

Shouldn't you therefore be intolerant of yourself, by your own claims? And then intolerant of that intolerance, and so on and so forth.

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America has hundreds of mosques. Muslims integrate in the US far far better than they do in Europe or Canada or Australia. I fail to see why this one little mosque in Temecula is newsworthy.

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It's intellectually lazy, and while that works out fine for you yourself, others out there suffer who are subjected to your stereotypes and intolerance." Oh boy, another of those rich elite types... Ok, well would you be in support of say that church that protests funerals? Are u even down with their right to protest? Are you so tolerant towards those mormons out there with a bunch of wives? I would think you're not. So, you yourself are just as intolerant to certain types of people as is I..

smith: enough.. you know full well that liberalism and Islam DO NOT MIX! They, most, many of, what ever have more in common with people like you favorite demon, Willy Graham, yet you're ready to tar and feather him!!!

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Solidaritea:

" America has hundreds of mosques. Muslims integrate in the US far far better than they do in Europe or Canada or Australia. "

That is wishful thinking. You mistake "small number" with "integrating". The goal of the muslim brotherhood (to which this little mosque in Temecula is linked) is the same everywhere.

In its "An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Muslim Brotherhood in North America" the Brotherhood states this: "(the muslim community) must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and 'sabotaging' its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and Allah's religion is made victorious over all other religions."

Now you can insist in calling that a religious goal. I call it politics.

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smithjapan:

" One of those rights is the right to practice the religion you so desire, at least in the nation you're from. "

Firstly, you don´t know where I am from. Secondly, I agree with that -- as long as we are clear about the definition of "religion". A political movement should be treated as such.

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Sorry, "should not", of course.

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"a group called Concerned American Citizens to protest"

Before we had the CarpetBagTea Party, now here's the CAC party. All you need are frowny wrinkles on your brow. Grumbling, muttering, whining and kvetching are common at this group's meetings. One member was reported to be downright worried about something!

WilliB

Is your username an anagram? It says BilliW backwards. Why not be like the leader of the Black Eyed Peas and use Will.I.Be?

skipthesong: "you favorite demon 'Willy Graham'" = Will.I.Gram?

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skipsong....You are continuing to generalize again because we are talking about American muslims in California who only wish to expand their mosques (which is a right in the US). They appear to what nothing to do with Sharia law nor force conversions like how some parts of the Middle East do.

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America has hundreds of mosques. Muslims integrate in the US far far better than they do in Europe or Canada or Australia. I fail to see why this one little mosque in Temecula is newsworthy.

Not sure I agree with how well they integrate into the US. Being from Arizona, I'm well aware of a certain trial taking place presently about another of the many 'Honor' Killings that have taken place in the US. With things like that taking place, suggesting that they're integrating well into society seems very off. However I agree with the second part of your statement. I don't see whats newsworthy about another mosque being built. Nor for that matter do I see what the big deal is. As others have said, people have the right to worship as they like. Be it Muslims or Mormons. And no one has the right to tell people they can't build a religious building on their property.

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Muslims integrate in the US far far better than they do in Europe

You got stats to back that up? Asking as some been commended on their Muslim integration, etc and one is regarded as the best & a model in the world in that aspect.

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Well some people need to look more into the meaning of dhimmitude and ummah. Since the majority of muslims even in the US are either shia or sunni there isn't going to be much of that passive thinking that many people would expect of a normal religious system. If 90%+ were sufi or amadiyyah we probably wouldn't be having such concerns.

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In the event, the conflict between Shariah and secular law are much more serious than a speeding ticket. They concern the fundamental human rights on which modern society is based.

You haven't demonstrated that the people at this mosque want to impose Shariah law.

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