Most economists say Brexit will harm UK economy

It's not about the economy - it's about self determination which the EU doesn't allow citizens.

It's about self determination which the EU doesn't allow citizens

Yes it does.

EU Citizens get to vote for MEPs in the EU Parliament.

EU Citizens vote for the government in each member state. Each government selects a Commissioner - it is part of the democratic mandate governments are given by their voting public.

EU governments send their ministers to the Council of Ministers. Ministers are democratically elected by their people, representing their country in the Council of Ministers is no different to government ministers representing their countries at a G7 meeting.

EU Citizens can introduce legislation for the EU Parliament to vote on. They have to start it as a petition and, if the petition reaches 1 million signatures across the EU, it is voted on by the Parliament. It sounds like a lot, but 1 million is 0.2% of the EU's population or, to put it a different way, less than 40,000 signatures in each member state.

And if that's not enough to convince you otherwise, if the EU didn't allow self-determination, then how come the UK is being allowed to have a referendum on determining its membership? Surely that constitutes self-determination more than anything else.....

I don't think the EU has had more than a 50% turn out in general, for many years.

Nine out of 10 of Britain’s top economists working in London’s City financial district

Was also looking at an article yesterday about London’s City financial district is one of the most corrupt. So go figure, of course they don't want to rock the boat. It's quite obvious Obama and his Central Banker masters don't want the Brexit, and this Reuters article supports that point.

Brexit people are Britain's answer to Trump people. They don't travel, don't like foreigners, don't know much, they often deny global warming. Their leader Boris Johnson is Trump's image for more than just his blond mop, he shares Trump's profound narcissism and shameless opportunism.

Brexit is just more Trump-style angry nihilism by miggle-aged men who can't explain why they're angry. Smashie smashie, don't ask me what I'm replacing it with. Give the finger to Johnny Foreigner because .. uhh .. he's foreign.

I'm willing to bet that Calais will still be overcrowded should Brexit come to fruition.

@CrazyJoe That's only partly true. The likes of Johnson are appealing to the rightist headbangers with nonsense about Hitler and Napoleon and this is commanding the headlines. The most intelligent critic of a bureaucratic and undemocratic Europe was the late Tony Benn - not a Little Englander or a jingoistic clown. There are voices from the left who support an out vote but none have Benn's gravitas and the figure heads of the out vote are bobble-heads like Johnson and Farage. Trump's support for an out vote saw him join the legion of clowns who will ensure a stay vote.

I'm a reluctant stay voter, by the way.

Immigration is vital for every country. No country can cut itself off in this day and age. But, I haven't heard anyone from the Leave side say that the UK would shut the door to everyone coming. All they are saying is that they would like to introduce an Australian-style point system where you can choose what type of person enters the country. I don't think this is xenophobic or racist. People just don't leave the front door of their house open, they usually choose who they let in.

I was very undecided about which way to vote but I have decided to vote leave. The leaders of the Remain or Leave campaign haven't convinced me. After looking at the information and evidence myself I can't see how remaining is a good thing.

The economists?......what few newspapers are being honest about is that around 3700 economists were asked and only about 600 responded. This tells me that the majority are wary about giving any forecasts and don't know themselves. Why?

Economists were wrong about the Euro. Economists were wrong about monetary union. Economists didn't foresee the 2008 financial crisis.

nothing is set in stone everybody is fear mongering economists and politicans are wetting themselves because they will lose their power the EU is becoming more undemocratic we saw that during the Ukraine referendum and the Migrant Crisis the poiticans in Brussels dont care what happens to the common folk.

Trust nobody and vote what you want thats the best way of going with this every bit of information is either biased or straight up lies.

The restrictions on EU travel to the UK after Brexit would negatively affect the Premier League and European players, so I'm completely against Brexit as the PL would fall into a mediocre and dull league once again

Dcog9065

Here is an article you mind find interesting

<http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36378586

The UK exit wouldn't rally have any impact on the Premier League.

The Eu is a fascist monster and it's in the grip of the likes of Merkel who are steering Europe towards cultural annihilation. Get out while you can.

"The Eu is a fascist monster and it's in the grip of the likes of Merkel who are steering Europe towards cultural annihilation. Get out while you can."

A perfect example of the kind of hysterical nonsense Johnson is saying and partly why the polls are leaning towards stay.

@Crazy Joe. - I think it's more of a question of giving Johnny Foreigner the finger because his own county is a hell-hole of his own making and he wants to remake his new home in the same image. Terribly un-PC of me, I know.

@Tangerine2000 - You seem to be picking and choosing, even though your linked article does demonstrate a negative effect on the PL.. Unless your agenda is to get more mediocre Brit players to fill the ranks of EU players, then it'll be a resounding success and would surely make the PL as exciting as the Swedish and Austrian leagues!

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/35919247

http://www.theweek.co.uk/premier-league/70125/eu-referendum-would-brexit-destroy-the-premier-league

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/11/brexit-europe-eu-decimate-premier-league-footballers-data

Tangerine2000:

The economists?......what few newspapers are being honest about is that around 3700 economists were asked and only about 600 responded. This tells me that the majority are wary about giving any forecasts and don't know themselves. Why?

That's a pretty big leap to make, Tangerine2000. 3700 is probably the number that were initially contacted. 600 is the number that completed the whole survey. I don't think we know how many ignored it from the start, how many didn't see the email (or answer the call), or how many dropped out once they knew it was about the referendum.

Economists were wrong about the Euro. Economists were wrong about monetary union. Economists didn't foresee the 2008 financial crisis.

That's interesting background but a little irrelevant to the matter at hand. I would want to know what is wrong or misleading about the current forecasts, not about a completely different set of predictions from over a decade ago. People and methods tend to change and improve with experience.

I think the Brits should remain in the union. Given current trends, Britain will have the largest economy in the E.U in 20 years due to population growth and the City. They could then carry out the de-facto leadership role that Germany currently enjoys. Its not suppose to be that way but everyone knows it is. They could then revamp the democratic elements if they choose to do so, but I doubt it. That doesn't suit big business. Even revamp elements of free-movement. Britannia would once again rule in Europe.

>Matt HartwellMAY. 30, 2016 I think the Brits should remain in the union. Given current trends, Britain will have the largest economy in the E.U in 20 years due to population growth and the City. They could then carry out the de-facto leadership role that Germany currently enjoys. Its not suppose to be that way but everyone knows it is. They could then revamp the democratic elements if they choose to do so, but I doubt it. That doesn't suit big business. Even revamp elements of free-movement. Britannia would once again rule in Europe. **

Without an Exit, in 20 years it'll be Britannistan. The revamp will be quite different from what you have in mind.

The EU commission/parliaments coordination of economic and fiscal policies, its institutions, common monetary policy is fundamentally flawed. The Euro has become intrinsic to the design of European integration. My whole attitude to the EU commission, institutions and parliament become more negative as the euro crisis enforced austerity measures on Greece made the democratic disconnect more than a just a theoretical issue. The fact is no system of supranational governance has democratic mandate of a sovereign nation state.

Angela Merle irresponsible immigration policies, aided and abetted by President European Commission Jean-Claude Juncker, Vice-President Frans Timmermans, and President of the European Parliament Martin Schulz created a human tragedy in the Mediterranean and the death toll continues to rise among refugees attempting to reach Italy in inflatable's provided by people smugglers.

Economic integration through an unworkable stability and growth pact hasn't united the peoples of Europe, it has left nation by nation no effective strategy to deal with unmanageable levels of debt, diluting democratic authority, reducing nation states ability to govern there people for their own economic well-being by democratic consent. What is left is a unaccountable, unreachable commission unable to manage or comprehend Europe's wealth, diverse cultures, histories, and lifestyles.

To quote Tony Ben “What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you exercise it? To whom are you accountable? And how can we get rid of you?”

The question remains can Brexit provoke the much needed fundamental reform of the EU? My honest opinion it can.

Allow faceless civil servants to control the largest trading bloc in the world ? (see below example)

I don't think so

Allow the ( unelected) ECB to set interest rates ?

I don't think so

Policy for Ireland should be the same as for Germany?

I don't think so

MEPs are powerless to inform their electorate of the contents of documents drawn up by faceless lawyers and bureaucrats eg TPP Is that democracy?

I don't think so

Uneducated beggars allowed to roam Europe and go wherever they want?

No, I don't think so

Schools full of kids that don't have English as their first language?

I could go on......

The EC is a mess-countries need their own autonomy back.....!