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Egyptian army moves to stop assault on protesters

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Latest CNN reports on the scene indicate the anti-Mubarak protesters are shouting, "We will not continue to be agents for the US!"

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In Cairo, Anderson Cooper punched in his head 'ten times' . elitist Lefty snob Amanpour and her CNN crew chased back to their vehicles. An Al JAzeera reporter has been stabbed...

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Still "doubt the unrest has anything to do with the US", SolidariTea?

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The pro-Mubarak protesters are just regular Egyptian people who happen to have camels and horses!

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SolidariTea,

AC has been reporting in war zones since the mid-90s, so no surprise there. I'm surprised the senjo cameraman is not on the scene though.

Is Amanpour a southpaw? Does that affect her work? It's hard trying to decide why you dislike certain people--she's multilingual and articulate, therefore Satan? Are you doodling a target on her picture right now as you brush lint off your black trenchcoat?

Why is Al Jazeera English news only available in three cities in the U.S. (one of them being Washington)? Could it be that our government reps are enjoying access to foreign news sources that the rest of us can't handle?

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Still "doubt the unrest has anything to do with the US", SolidariTea?" I do, they clearly showed posters of Mubarak with a red star of David over his face... Since you believe its so much about the US, how about cutting off that aid if they happen to elect someone not friendly to us?

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Why is Al Jazeera English news only available in three cities in the U.S" What are you talking about? Anyone can watch it right on the web and via cable.... I'm watching it right now. Basically all of the online tv links include it.

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@skipthesong

The Egyptian people want that aid and ties to the US to be cut because it has only been benefiting the Egyptian elite. Hence the protests.

I'm in the states now on winter break. I'm assuming the coverage that Japan gets in English is somewhat different to the broadcasts (i.e. US CNN vs Asia CNN) we get here in the states. Otherwise it's hard to account for the barrage of uninformed posts here.

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SolidariTea,

Add another media casualty to your list. A FOX Business reporter named Leslie somebody got his camera thrown off the balcony by--get this--not the protesters but by the paranoid hotel staff. How is the business outlook in Egypt today?

Skipthesong,

Only talking about TV access. Obviously more than three cities have internet access. Here's an interesting article stating that only Washington, Burlington, and Toledo viewers get to watch Al Jazeera on TV:

"In the midst of escalating events in Egypt – including the recent announcement from President Hosni Mubarak that he will not run for another term, yet will remain in office until fall elections – an interest in bringing Al Jazeera English (launched in 2006) to American television sets has begun in reaction to data that nearly half of the 2,500% increase in online traffic (since 28 January) – which includes video of its television feed – has been due to American viewership. At present, Al Jazeera English, in broadcast form, is only available in three American cities: Washington, D.C.; Toledo, Ohio; and Burlington, Vermont as well as the national channel of MHz Networks, available through DirecTV, while the rest of American viewers are relegated to its online format. According to Tony Burman, head of North American strategies for Al Jazeera English, this limited arrangement is a direct result of pre-Obama politics and subsequent reluctance from cable companies. He was quoted in a Huffington Post article as stating the following: “There was reluctance from these companies to embark in a direction that would perhaps be opposed by the Bush administration. I think that’s changed. I think if anything the Obama administration has indicated to Al Jazeera that it sees us as part of the solution, not part of the problem.” However, according to a recent (31 January) LA Times article, both Comcast and Time Warner declined to comment on their interest in carrying Al Jazeera English.

Interestingly, these reports come at the same time (1 February) as data from the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press claims that there was, as their headline suggests, “Limited Public Interest in Egyptian Protests” during the last week in January. According to their findings, which were drawn from “telephone interviews conducted between January 27-30 among a sample of 1,007 adults 18 years of age or older living in the continental United States,” there was a disconnect between the amount of media coverage of the protests in Egypt versus “news interest.” While “the media devoted more attention to news about unrest in the Middle East (20% of coverage) than any other story last week,” only 11% of respondents “cite news about protests in Egypt and other Middle Eastern countries as the story they followed most closely last week (after stories covering the aftermath of the Arizona shootings and the State of the Union address). While criticisms could be made of sample size and quantitative research in general, these findings do tell a story about the “general population” to a certain extent, at least those who pick up their phones and participate in a research survey. So what does Pew’s findings have to do with Al Jazeera English and its availability in the United States? While the inclusion of Al Jazeera English to the repertoire of American programming would, in my opinion, greatly benefit and broaden American (mis)understandings of the Middle East, the Pew Research findings – as merely an example – point to a present interest that is still sidelined by nationally-focused stories and in the opinion of many, influenced by lingering xenophobia. On the other hand however, perhaps the “disinterested” Pew findings, when juxtaposed with the “spike” in American traffic to the Al Jazeera English website (i.e., “interest”), illustrate that Americans are turning away from mainstream television coverage and instead, searching (i.e. active audiences) for information that doesn’t highlight bias, sensationalism, agenda setting, etc. Whether or not American cable companies begin to broadcast Al Jazeera is anyone’s guess – I’m willing to bet that certain groups and shock jocks would put up an interesting fight before it happens. According to Jeff Jarvis, associate professor and director of the interactive journalism program and the new business models for news project at the City University of New York’s Graduate School of Journalism, “It is downright un-American to still refuse to carry it. Vital, world-changing news is occurring in the Middle East and no one–not the xenophobic or celebrity-obsessed or cut-to-the-bone American media–can bring the perspective, insight, and on-the-scene reporting Al Jazeera English can.”--Sarah Liberman

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When USA fit its own interest and policy they call for Democracy in the Middle East, the 2009 uprising in Iran is an example. Yet now, when the people are taking to the streets in Egypt and the Mubarak regime is massacring them and trying to suppress the protesters USA keeps it´s support. This hypocracy is typical of USA. The Pro-US dictators in the Middle East is collapsing ,and with this US influence too. We are now witnessing calls for democratic reforms from the people and freedom. With Egypt gone other dictatorships who are bribed by USA will hopefully collapse. Americans have made many mistakes in the region. Unilateral support for Israel, supporting the oppression of the Palestinian people. And it´s support for dictators such as Mubarak in Egypt, Zine El Abidine Ben Ali in Tunisia and King Abdullah in Jordan.

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Skipthesong,

In what US city are you watching Al Jazeera English on cable TV? You claim that "anyone can watch it...via cable."

lesgrande,

The coverage that Japan gets in English? There's twice a day bilingual service on NHK with all these disembodied voices with far flung accents that alternate almost every minute, but that's about it as far as I know.

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genzaiotei do you work for the Islamist organizations? Mubarak is not "massacring people on the streets". Anyway, as the news has reported since the start, all the protests are peaceful.

Maybe Israel should intervene and set up a new Egyptian government.

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Some protesters wept and prayed in the square where only a day before they had held a joyous, peaceful rally of a quarter-million, the largest demonstration so far.

more editorializing from the AP. This coverage is pathetic.

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At the heart of the square, young men with microphones sought to keep up morale. “Stand fast, reinforcements are on the way,” said one. “Youth of Egypt, be brave.” Groups of bearded men lined up to recite Muslim prayers before taking their turn in the line of fire... Bloodied young men staggered or were carried into makeshift clinics set up in mosques and alleyways by the anti-government side.... Women and men stood ready with water, medical cotton and bandages as each wave returned. Scores of wounded were carried to a makeshift clinic at a mosque near the square and on other side streets, staffed by doctors in white coats. One man with blood coming out of his eye stumbled into a side-street clinic.

Some reporter is preparing a Hollywood screenplay. Too bad the Islamofascist reality is not the Gandhi struggle he has in mind.

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So much for American freedom. They don´t have access to the same info as other people. No wonder they seem ignorant.

WASHINGTON - Canadian television viewers looking for the most thorough and in-depth coverage of the uprising in Egypt have the option of tuning into Al Jazeera English, whose on-the-ground coverage of the turmoil is unmatched by any other outlet. American viewers, meanwhile, have little choice but to wait until one of the U.S. cable-company-approved networks broadcasts footage from AJE, which the company makes publicly available. What they can't do is watch the network directly.

USA and other people should be in favor of the people, subsequent events will become more confrontational if not. The ignorant American accusation that this democratic revolution is tied to religious extremism is largely from the same racist ignorant Americans that believes in the myth that Islam is an ideology that is incomparable with democracy and freedom. Hate to burst this myth but the most democratic political Islamist parties in the Middle east are democratic. But before that, Americans have no right to preach about democracy and freedom in the first place. They don´t support it. They are the ones supporting fascism in the Middle East.

Millions of Egyptians demand Mubarak & USA Go Away. USA can no longer continue what they have been doing in Egypt for decades. Intimidate, crush, kidnap, assassinate civilians who bother their puppets. Let fascism and colonialism be the past and freedom and liberty the future.

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genzai- you are making friends fast with your insults. Please try to tone down your rhetoric.

Millions of Egyptians want Mubarak to stay. Millions of Egyptians know the Muslim Brotherhood is a terrorist organization.

the myth that Islam is an ideology that is incomparable with democracy and freedom.

Correct. Iraq is now a democratic state.

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This whole thing gets meaner every day. First it's peaceful protests, then you get looting, then burning down police stations, now they're throwing Molotov’s at each other and waving machetes. I'm surprised more aren't dead.

Are you doodling a target on her picture right now as you brush lint off your black trenchcoat?

Leave the trench coats out of this, they don't deserve the bad publicity they get and I'll not be ashamed to wear mine. The tan one is nice but sometimes black is more fitting for the situation.

In what US city are you watching Al Jazeera English on cable TV?

I get it in Detroit but then again I have satellite, but then so do most people these days. Plus, if you can stream it on the internet, which they do, then anybody can, in fact, watch it whenever they please.

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not sure how an article about the change sweeping Egypt became an increasingly ironic thread on educating Americans about the availability and freedom of information. Both seem to be related however, in that the solution appears to be the same

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“Why don’t you protect us?” some protesters shouted at the soldiers, who replied they did not have orders to do so and told people to go home.

I really don't know what the military can do. A saw the live footage of the scene and although I'm not a military expert I can't imagine how someone would be able to "protect" just one group when you have thousands on both sides filling the streets. Any shots fired would be seen as an attack on the people you're firing at, at which point the military would become the enemy of that group. If you try to clear the streets by using force then you'll be seen as attacking both sides. If you're anti-Mubarak you'll say the military is supporting him by trying to disperse the protesters, if you're pro-Mubarak you'll say the military is supporting the protesters by allowing them to stay. Maybe the smartest move is to be an enemy to both by doing nothing. It's better than being responsible for killing either side.

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Here you have millions of people calling on reforms and freedom. Thousands of people are now in Tahrir Square demanding a change. USA on the other hand is supporting a corrupt tyrant. Ask yourself, America. Who are you? What do you stand for? Mubarak must step down and open up for democracy.

In the statement circulated by the International Network, it was disclosed that Egyptian security forces received the complete cargoes on three Israeli planes which were, it is claimed, carrying an abundant supply of internationally proscribed gas to disperse unwanted crowds. If the reports are accurate, this suggests that the Egyptian regime is preparing for the worse in defence of its position, despite the country sinking into chaos.

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sf2k it became that way because that is not off topic to the mods who seem to have an anti american bias. They let all the rhetoric against it stay no matter how off topic. True defenders of neutrality and unbiased opinion. NOT!

Guess that quarter million people don't really represent the will of the people after all. Oh wait. I know. The Mubarak supporters must all be undercover police there to cause trouble. Lefties believe that because it is what they do in their protests against G20 and the like thinking that some big business and government are out to make tin foil hats to brainwash them with or something like that. I think it's great that Mubarak decided to stay until democracy takes it's course and not this lefty way of terrorism of we'll force you out. If only we had our AK-47s to set up our utopias like in Cuba and other Commie countries that are enjoying great success and democracy. Egypt has had it's most peaceful time under the guy so I hate to see what they have coming if these protesters get their way. Funny how the lefties support anything against a government and find a way to blame the USA for all that troubles a certain country. Will they still support it when a theocracy takes over by force? Oh yeah they like things taken over by force. They are fake democracy supporters.

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Mubarak backers attack anti-gov't protesters; 3 dead, 600 injured

I suspect they are more Mubarak-backed than Mubarak backers.

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mikehuntez, huh?

since when do Americans rag on people who are asserting their democracy? That would appear to be an indication that America has long since sold out.

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to the two posters above, for some reason "a potentially offensive content", I can't post the links that will tell you how to watch it from both Japan and the US. They do however have coverage. I myself have no idea what the partner company's office is using, but its running non-stop

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Ah, so it is all about anti US and anti Jew..... so, how can you ask us to support this?

Wrong. It is about USA supporting corrupt tyrants and oppose freedom. So I ask you. What do you stand for? The attacks on the non-violent anti-Mubarak Demonstrators by Mubarak has been planned by the interior Ministry . Mubarak is the godfather of organized crime in Egypt.

Moderator: Please tone down your rhetoric.

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“Why don’t you protect us?” some protesters shouted at the soldiers, who replied they did not have orders to do so and told people to go home.

Brainwashed people speaking here. If you had orders to slaughter people you would do it? Think for yourselves army and police guys, your corrupt government is causing harm upon millions of your countrymen.

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To learn what is going on in the world, one should not limit themselves to American news sources (or even BBC). I find Al Jazeera quite good, as well as RT News." Better, use face book and friend a few people from there.. Oh, and if you really want to know what's on Al Jazeera, rely on an Arab speaking friend and not the translators Al Jazeera hires...

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The people might be fooled to accept ElBaradei, who appears to be a decent fellow, but he would likely end up serving the same masters. He is/was sitting on the Board of Trustees of the International Crisis Group together with Brzezinski and Soros.

Did you say you thought he deserved his Nobel prize? What suddenly made you change your mind?

Yeah, there are also reports of Israeli commandos in Egypt.

Where, may I ask, are these 'reports'?

Indeed, Americans are generally poorly informed in international events.

Yeah, I know what you mean. So much misinformation about, for example: your saying Frank Wisner worked for the CIA. You know what they say about people in glass houses? They should move.

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OK, fair enough. So you think El Baradei, the Muslim Brotherhood and everyone is a puppet of the US/West. Who would you like to see become the head of state in Egypt next?

Wisner's father is not this Wisner. The Frank Wisner Obama sent to Egypt has never worked for the CIA. You are mistaken. Why are you so down on the man anyway? Did he commit some crime that you are aware of?

BTW, I am assuming he told Mubarak that it was getting to be time to hit the road 'rak'. Don't know if the US should be stepping on a long time ally's toes like that though. What would have had him tell Mubarak?

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I suspect they are more Mubarak-backed than Mubarak backers.

I suspect even more they are Mubarak clones taken from genes removed from Mubarak's back.

genzai and sabiwabi - thanks for the honest effort to get us to understand the Muslim Brotherhood. However, Israel-bashing is not only irrelevant here but also just wrong. Millions of Egyptians support Mubarak. Millions of Egyptians hate the Muslim Brotherhood and their terrorist ways.

Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Muslim Brotherhood are terrorists, plain and simple. :-)

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Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Muslim Brotherhood are terrorists, plain and simple. :-)

Now there is a great on-topic, relevant, and non-offensive comment. Keep it up.

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So, again, who would you like to see as head of state of Egypt?

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So, again, who would you like to see as head of state of Egypt?

Whoever the Egyptian people choose in a fair and free election.

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So, if they choose El Baradei, you are okay with that? I thought you said he was a puppet of the US/West? How about someone from the Muslim Brotherhood, you have suggested they are a puppet of the US/West.

I am curious as to whom you personally would pick. With whom would you have no complaint about?

Moderator: The reader has already answered your question. Please move the discussion along and focus your comments on the topic, not at each other.

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Here you have millions of people calling on reforms and freedom. Thousands of people are now in Tahrir Square demanding a change. USA on the other hand is supporting a corrupt tyrant. Ask yourself, America. Who are you? What do you stand for? Mubarak must step down and open up for democracy.

There are a lot of misinformed people posting on here about Mubarak and the current situation. Although corrupt, he seems a relatively balanced and independent individual in a regional hotbed of war and conflict. Mubarak replaced the pro-Israeli peace President Sadat when Sadat was assasinated for that very reason. Mubarak got Egypt back on board with the Arab world after they were kicked out of the Arab League for signing that peace treaty with Israel. However, Egyptian troops were also the first to attack the invading Iraqi forces in Kuwait and backing the US war in Kuwait. There again, Mubarak was the first to criticise Bush's war on Iraq warning of an escalation of terrorism in the wake of Bush's invasion of Iraq (and how sensible that criticism seems now).

And how can these demonstrations be described as democracy? I thought democracy involved a ballot box and a vote? How do we know whether these opposition activists are in the right? Otherwise every time an opposition party wanted to overthrow a government they just need to cause riots and claim democracy. These are opposition activists organising themselves via the internet and this sets a very dangerous precedent. Imagine if American or British or Japanese governments were determined by riots and demonstrations overthrowing the government.

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northlondon,

Good post. As I watched Obama telling the world he thought Mubarak had to take steps to stand down 'now', I remember wondering whether Obama would feel the same way if mobs of Americans rushed out in the street and told him to leave office. I somehow doubt it.

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northlondon:

" There are a lot of misinformed people posting on here about Mubarak and the current situation. "

Exactly. There is a whole crowd of commentators here who like any revolt -- as long as it is not a revolt against a leftist of islamist government.

In the case of Egypt, the contrast between Obamas support for Ahmedinejad in the Iranian demonstrations and him dropping Mubarak like a hot potato is shameful. But don´t wait for our commentators to notice that.

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It seems to me that the protesters did not give president Mubarak a chance to retire with honor at all! Giving him only a few days to "pack his bags" is little too fast, too unreasonable...after all he is president for 30 years; his roots,his influences, his supporters must be all over Egyptian society. Naturally he needs time to organise a peaceful transfer of power . He can not lie because the world now all know his intention to resign, and neither the army nor Obama is on his side. Trust him a little ,give him time and avoid bloodshed.

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Very easy for one to comment from the sidelines and preach change via the ballot box, more patience, etc. People do not come out to protest in such large numbers and intensity without there obviously being something which has been gnawing away at them for some time. Wonder how you would feel if a coalition of foreign powers were to dictate your country's policy through a collaborator for a number of years? Or on a more individual level, how would you feel if you and a load of your mates were born into a life of poverty and had very few options to change your station? Content to just line up at a ballot box, knowing your vote wouldn't be counted anyway?

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"stubbornly proclaiming he would die on Egyptian soil."

Well, if things spiral out of control and he sends more thungs in to beat up/kill the protesters, he may quite well be lynched by the mob if the refuses to go.

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Democracy is messy ,it requires a lots of patience, thinkings, compromises,deals...mouth first ,not fist of fury first.

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[Mubarak] seems a relatively balanced and independent individual in a regional hotbed of war and conflict. Mubarak replaced the pro-Israeli peace President Sadat when Sadat was assasinated for that very reason. Mubarak got Egypt back on board with the Arab world after they were kicked out of the Arab League for signing that peace treaty with Israel.

Are you suggesting that Mubarak is not pro-Israeli? Did Mubarak ignore the treaty?

I thought democracy involved a ballot box and a vote?

But if one man decides who can and cannot be on the ballot...

There are a lot of misinformed people posting on here about Mubarak and the current situation.

Indeed.

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sabiwabi,

Interesting that you are accusing some of being misinformed, whilst you yourself declare that Mubarak is pro-Israeli and pro the peace treaty with Israel. Who do you think got Egypt back into the League of Arab States after their exclusion for signing the peace treaty? Do you seriously believe that the Arab States would have allowed Egypt back if Mubarak was pro-Israeli?

As for your comment ridiculing the ballot box and the vote as a better form of democracy. I take that as your support for outright disorder and rioting in the streets to decide who forms a government and when the opposition party want power?

Very silly.

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northlondon,

The peace treaty is still in effect, no? Search the net, and you will find many pictures of a smiling Mubarak with Netenyahoo or Olmert. Why do you think Egypt receives so much aid from the US. Mubarak is very much pro-Israeli, hopefully that will change soon enough.

As for your comment ridiculing the ballot box and the vote as a better form of democracy. I take that as your support for outright disorder and rioting in the streets to decide who forms a government and when the opposition party want power?

I criticized the current Egyptian ballot system. I don't support disorder, but I do support real democracy; sometimes you need a revolution to get that. I take it you do not support real democracy; you seem to expect citizens to shut up and put up with whatever their leader gives them.

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"Or on a more individual level, how would you feel if you and a load of your mates were born into a life of poverty and had very few options to change your station?"

In a country as old as Egypt, and looking at countries like South Korea, or Japan that bounced back after being bombed flat, I think I would question the culture I lived in. What is it about Islam/Egypt's participation in the Socialist Internationale/obsessive Israel- and America-hatred/ and the misplaced hope in Arab Caesars (like Nasser) that has kept us back and made us a laughinngstock.

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northlondon at 04:58 PM JST - 3rd February

I don't usually agree with him but this comment was spot on.

All those saying the US supports a dictator are partially correct. The US, Israel and Egypt fund the MFO peacekeepers in the Sinai to maintain the peace brought by Sadat and maintained by Mubarak. I was on it in 89 and even visited the highly respected Tomb of Sadat in Cairo complete with it's honor guard guarding it. Maybe the reason the US gets along with Mubarak is because he is somewhat mentally stable for what usually comes out of the middle east. What northlondon said about democracy and this farce the anarchist supporters calling riots as democracy is only done by a fraction of the population and therefore not representative of all the millions that love Mubarak for maintaining peace in their country after Sadat got the Sinai back for Egypt. They can appreciate that they lost it and negotiated it back. Now if only the Pals would see how it's done they'd benefit too. But all you supporters of the rioters start ranting about how the big bad USA is supporting a dictator were pretty silent over the last 3 decades yourselves. Only when a riot by a fraction of the population do you come out in you support of anarchy which has gotten no one ahead at all. I just hope that when the old guy does go that they get someone of as good character as Mubarak.

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People do not come out to protest in such large numbers and intensity without there obviously being something which has been gnawing away at them for some time" Welcome to the age of the internet. Wonder how you would feel if a coalition of foreign powers were to dictate your country's policy through a collaborator for a number of years?" But yet welcomed by many. Or on a more individual level, how would you feel if you and a load of your mates were born into a life of poverty and had very few options to change your station?" but yet you support two of the most ardent dictators who cause this.

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I don't support disorder, but I do support real democracy; sometimes you need a revolution to get that. I take it you do not support real democracy; you seem to expect citizens to shut up and put up with whatever their leader gives them.

And whilst you watch on your TV, from the comfort of your living room, anti-government opposition activists demonstrating, you are perfectly happy in your TV living room world to accept those opposition activists as representing the majority of the whole population of Egypt? Is that your idea of "real democracy" then? Amongst a nation which has a voting population of 44.5 million. There were 23 million people demonstrating were there? I don't think so.

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But all you supporters of the rioters start ranting about how the big bad USA is supporting a dictator were pretty silent over the last 3 decades yourselves. Only when a riot by a fraction of the population do you come out in you support of anarchy which has gotten no one ahead at all.

I for one have long been critical of the puppet dictator Mubarak.

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Arabic proverb; Peace in dictatorship is better than turmoil in anarchy. Japanese proverb(?); Turmoil in anarchy is better than peace in no leadership. Where is Japanese political leader?

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Arabic proverb; Peace in dictatorship is better than turmoil in anarchy. Japanese proverb(?); Turmoil in anarchy is better than peace in no leadership.

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genzeiyotei:

" Egyptians are demonstrating for the sake of freedom, dignity, social justice, and liberate their homelands from bribed dictators and despots. "

...and what they will vote themselves into if you take the lid off now and let popular elections roll, will be the muslim brotherhood and a Shariah dictatorship.

Have our foolish Western politicians not learned the lessons from Iran, Algeria, Lebanon, Gazah, Iraq? "Freedoom" got us Khomeini, Islamic Salvation Front, Hizb-Allah, Hamas, Al Sadr and all the rest.

The Muslim Brotherhood has already said that the first thing they will do is tear up the peace treaty with Israel and open the weapons floodgates to Gazah.

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"Freedoom" got us Khomeini...

Better than the Shah!

... Hizb-Allah

Better than having Lebanon occupied by the IDF!

Inshallah, lets hope the Egyptians get free and fair elections.

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Amongst a nation which has a voting population of 44.5 million. There were 23 million people demonstrating were there? I don't think so.

This is a ridiculous, arbitrary way of trying to dismiss the unprecedented demonstrations in Egypt. If at least half the voting age population of a country isn't demonstrating, then the demonstrations have no legitimacy? Give me a break, and think about the courage needed to confront the forces of an undeniably brutal, American-backed dictatorship.

Yes, you armchair MIddle East analysts are all correct: Egyptians aren't unhappy because of state repression, corruption, and a dead-end economy; they're unhappy because they can't cross the Sinai Peninsula to fight Israelis and destroy the Jewish state.

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genzaiyotei: What US is hoping for is Egyptian government maintain warm relations with Israel and opposition to Palestinian freedom.

What's wrong with warm relations with Israel? Seems better than the past with tanks rolling across the border and European soldiers joining in on the slaughter of Egyptians. Peace with Israel has been a good thing for Egypt and the Middle East.

Egypt has little to no interest in seeing the Palestinians suffer, but they do have an interest in stopping free access to the Iranian lackeys crossing through Gaza at will. Closing the borders has noting to do with being "pro-Israel" or "anti-Palestine". It has everything to do with stopping Iran from setting up shop in Egypt.

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I was just watching CNN and they showed a lot of disturbing footage. First of all, Anderson Cooper was assaulted and claims to have been punched in the head ten times by pro-Mubarak supporters. Then they showed a police van speeding through an area of protesters. It ran down two men without slowing down.

I had hoped the military would not be needed because I think they are in a no-win situation, in my opinion. But, with the Mubarak side getting more violent, I think the military has no choice but to intervene and yes, use force to maintain order.

Taka

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Hmmm. The gerenal assumption of many posters here seems to be that, as Egyptians are Muslims the current riots and protests must be some sort of Islamist plot to usher in a radical government. Glen Beck did a whole show "revealing" that the current events in the Middle East were all being orchistrated by some sort shadowy global Islamist/Marxist conspiracy. This line of thinking is fairly incomprehesible to me, save that it seems to be based on very deep sense of fear.

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It´s their home country. They either want a one state solution where one person gets one vote or Israel retreats to 1967 borders according to international law.

Not sure why you are bringing this unrelated garbage up anyway. This topic is about the Egyptian army and its moves to stop the assault on protesters. Myself, I can see the problems on all sides. On the protesters side, they want freedom and democracy, although of course you have some that want more repression, just Islamic repression. (Muslim Brotherhood) On the military side, they just want the protesters to go home. Mubarak has already said he won't run for re-election. As it is, they're caught in the middle. Trying to keep people from killing each other, while not being involved themselves. And then theres the anti-protestors side. Those loyal to Mubarak, and those who are affected by the disruptions caused by these protests. People who just want to feed their family. With shipments in food and gasoline being delayed, this becomes more and more problematic. And people naturally start blaming those who keep disrupting things.

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Look at Hamas a grass root organization with democratic values. The same with Hezbollah. What is wrong with democracy?

Oh yeah which rifle do they like to use as their ballots? Is it an AK-47 the old reliable weapon of choice? I don't know of many other armed political parties. Is this what you want for Egypt? If they get into a war and lose territory will you cry a river to get it back as usual? It was given back once. Don't count on twice.

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Is it an AK-47 the old reliable weapon of choice?

Perhaps, they just like to reserve thier rights to bear arms(if they have a second type law). Is that only some have the right to over throw a tyrannical leader?

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Very good posts by Northlondon. Not much to comment here from me since a lot of other posters have already said what needs to be said for those who haven't figured it out.

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From Haaretz, and spot-on:

"The Arab liberation revolution will fundamentally change the Middle East. The acceleration of the West's decline will change the world. One outcome will be a surge toward China, Russia and regional powers like Brazil, Turkey and Iran. Another will be a series of international flare-ups stemming from the West's lost deterrence. But the overall outcome will be the collapse of North Atlantic political hegemony not in decades, but in years. When the United States and Europe bury Mubarak now, they are also burying the powers they once were. In Cairo's Tahrir Square, the age of Western hegemony is fading away."

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Sabiwabi:

" "Freedoom" got us Khomeini... --> Better than the Shah! ... Hizb-Allah --> Better than having Lebanon occupied by the IDF! "

Yes, those are of course the islamist positions. The Muslim Brotherhood agrees with you.

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Yes, those are of course the islamist positions.

No, those are the views of most of humanity.

Anyway, this protest is largely secular. They have the universal desire to be free.

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Everybody's so eager to put forth their own theories on what is "really" happening in Egypt, yet there is actually very little information to go on. Patience is a virtue!

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Sounds like it's roughly 50-50 pro/con Mubarak. What to do?

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