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Muslim dignitaries pay their respects at Auschwitz

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Can't wait for some regulars from this forum to tell it is an imposture.

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I hope sabiwabi attended that event.

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smartacus,

That would never happen, it would mean he would actually have to admit that the holocaust actually took place and come out of his delusional denial state.

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I am not always sure I like the way that the Holocaust is presented, it gives the simple minded the opportunity to use it as a means of saying the Jews are using it as a victim card. This however is different in that the Holocaust is being used as an example of where racism can ultimately lead. Reading the British papers over the last week in an attempt to try and get a better idea what is happening in Egypt I have been really sickened by the accepted level of anti-Jewish feeling that is being openly expressed in many of the papers, and the comments sections have been horrendous. (Dear Mod they really do need your critical eye). I think we have all seen how some people will use the word “Israel” when they really mean “Jewish” but last week it was openly anti-Jewish AND anti-Israeli. I have never read any national paper that printed such things before. Maybe what the Aladdin Project can help in some small way. I hope so, because poison is poison no matter who it is given to.

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Agree with Grafton.

Not fond of the way the Holocaust is often presented as an anti-semitic event, forgetting/no showing the other people(MANY, MANY) that were prosecuted and executed along with the jewish. At that time jewish people were also prosecuted in Turkey, etc.

But it does appear as if some jewish groups want the holocaust to be only about them and they can play the "victim card".

As for the event good to see a good mix of people, religions, etc. Personally haven't been to Auschwitz yet, but we took school-trips to Mauthausen and Dachau.

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Zenny11,

I do agree with you in some respects, that the holocaust was more than just jews being murdered. There were a lot more other groups that suffered the same fate. However you loose me when you say "But it does appear as if some jewish groups want the holocaust to be only about them and they can play the "victim card"." I think when around 6 million of an estimated population of 9 to 10 million are murdered then they have a right to be vocal. I wouldnt call it playing the victim card l would call it stating a fact. The fact you believe they are playing the victim card means you are downplaying their suffering and experiences.

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AdamB.

If you think so, did you check how many jews were exterminated by Russia, Turkey, etc during he same century?

As my History teacher(jewish) said Germany got nailed because they had better book-keeping of what they did than other nations.

We just have to agree to disagree here.

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Zenny11,

Yes l realise the Russians exterminated Jews as well (around 1 million) however Stalin exterminated as many or more none Jews during the same period. However the Germans exterminated 6 million in around 10 years, they effectively killed two thirds of the European Jewish population and your response was the Jews are using this to play the victim card. I think any race that has the majority of its population murdered has the right to claim to be a victim. If you disagree l would love to hear your rational for it....

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Agree with AdamB, it's not "playing the victim card" to mention that they were in fact victims, nor does it mean they think they were the only victims, since Yad Vashem and other Holocaust memorials do honor non-Jewish victims of the Holocaust.

As my History teacher(jewish) said Germany got nailed because they had better book-keeping of what they did than other nations.

The Spanish inquisition and the Soviet Union also kept good records of how many Jews they killed. What's your point? That Germany gets a bad rap that they don't deserve just because they kept good records?

Anyway I think it's great that Muslim leaders are getting involved in this kind of interfaith movement, since they are often accused of not doing enough to change the reputation of their faith as radical and violent. Here they are doing exactly that--what can there be to complain about?

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As I said discussion over from my side, I also got jewish family members.

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however Stalin exterminated as many or more none Jews during the same period. However the Germans exterminated 6 million in around 10 years, they effectively killed two thirds of the European Jewish population" And I'm still amazed that so many Anglos jump on the Nazi bandwagon yet the Nazi god and his Russian counterpart killed almost half of your kind.

Now having said that, I've gotten tonnes of mail recently with sites showing photos and articles of the Muslim brotherhood collaborating with the Nazis.....

I am in all agreement with the above two posters that the other victims of the Holocaust should be noted (I actually only learned about the Jews with gypsies being barely mentioned).

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many people were imprisoned and killed during the holocaust, the majority being Jewish, some others included christian groups such as JW as they refused to heil hitler , others were Polish people or people of Romany (gypsy), they each had a coloured triangle on their shirts to identify who they were interesting, only the JW were given a 'get out of jail free' card, IF they denounced their religion and heil hitler,,,only a few did this,,,, most suffered the fate of the Jews I believe it is a real step forward that Muslims are acknowledging what happened during the war,,,,atrocity

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wow, this is a great step and show of Muslim openness.

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This quote is troubling:

" “Muslims have to stand up with Jewish friends because in Europe, anti-Semitism is rising—and where there is anti-Semitism, Islamophobia is not far away,” said British Mufti Abduljalil Sajid. "

The good mufti does not mention that the rising anti-semitism in Europe comes almost exclusively from the growing muslim population. And why does he have to bring in the fake "islamophobia" charge in Auschwitz? Totally dishonest.

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WilliB-

very good point.

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If the number of Muslims in Europe now were the same as when Hitler did his atrocious crimes, he sure would have had the Muslims lining up there to be gassed too. But, I think they would have fought back harder and not taken any bull.

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“Muslims have to stand up with Jewish friends because in Europe, anti-Semitism is rising—and where there is anti-Semitism, Islamophobia is not far away,” said British Mufti Abduljalil Sajid.

The Mufti is simply saying, 'Hey, fellow Muslims! Whipping up racism only gets them coming after you next. Stop it!' That what I got from it.

There are plenty of nuts that are both irrationally anti-semitic and anti-Islamic. Don't you think that is all he was saying?

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goddog, Infact the Germans used Muslim troops in their ranks and the muslim brotherhood actually raised and international SS unit in Croatia called the Muslim Division. So im tipping they would have faired better than the Jews dont you think

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AdamB,

In the beginning, definitely and infinitely better. However, one wonders how long it would have taken for them to become among the ranks of the 'mud people'.

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atamant, true, once they outlived their usefulness lm sure they too would have been in trouble.

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atamant:

" The Mufti is simply saying, 'Hey, fellow Muslims! Whipping up racism only gets them coming after you next. Stop it!' That what I got from it. "

Good for you, but that is a very long shot. There is nothing in his statement that points to him even acknowledging that the rise of antisemitism in Europe comes from the muslim population. No, what he is clearly doing is trying hitch his own agenda (labelling criticism of islam as "islamophobia") to the Auschwitz catastrophe.

He would be more believable if had taken the opportunity to take on the holocaust deniers among his co-religionists.

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WilliB,

I think the Mufti showed clearly how he feels by being there and by saying such a thing should never happen again. It is good he was there and it was good he said what he said.

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Just thought I'd point out that Anit-semiticism refers to both Jews and Muslims by definition. Both come from semitic languages and peoples orginally. Nazi Germany used the word for just Jews, so people think it just refers to them

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No it does not. Anti-semitism refers to being anti-Jewish. Semitic means both. Please check a dictionary.

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The sad thing about the Holocaust(Auschwitz)is today genocide is still going on in certain parts of the world.

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“The reason is clear,” she said. “Because it’s primarily from some of these countries where the speeches and documents that trade in Holocaust denial, hatred and anti-Semitism come from.”

Can't believe there are Holocaust deniers. Millions of Jews and non-Jews were murder in WWII. The evidence clearly substantiate the crime that was carried out on those people.

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Wow... this is going to scramble some ultra-rightist brains. I can just imagine WilliB making excuses for the people he claims never take a stand against intolerance making a stand against intolerance.... oh wait! he already has made excuses!

Funny part is, when Willi accuses people of intolerance while they are being tolerant, he fails to see that he is FAR more intolerant than the people he claims are intolerant to begin with. Heaven forbid a Muslim be against 9/11, as Willi has demanded -- he would, by mere opposition, be more for what happened than the Muslims against what happened.

Waiting for heads to spin.

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skipbeat: "The sad thing about the Holocaust(Auschwitz)is today genocide is still going on in certain parts of the world."

Not only is it going on, it's US government sanctioned with Israel at least. And other places, of course.

Very sad, indeed.

I for one will speak on behalf of those like WilliB and other ultra-rightists who demand 'where are the Muslims speaking against such atrocities' like with Mumbai and what not: this is a brave and daring stance, and appreciated by all the world save for a few idiotic Repubicans in the US who are McCarthy-like paranoid. Mind you, said people will never recognize it for what it is... only look for ways to undermine it.

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And by speak on their behalf I meant thank you for the gesture. Auschwitz should NEVER happen again, and Muslims visiting and saying as such is proof that regardless of religion people can agree on such things. So again, for Willi and crowd, thank you.

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Not only is it going on, it's US government sanctioned with Israel at least. And other places, of course.

I see smitinjapan , the imams at Auschwitz, and the lay-down-for dhimmitude types quietly pass over the ongoing genocide taking place in Sudan, by Muslims. 'Other places' goes unmentioned by these great championss of peace...

And there is the open slaughter of the Copts in Egypt. The EU won't even use the word christian on that one, for fear of enraging those in their borders who follow 'the Religion of peace.' Like with Muslim slavery in places such as Mali or Mauritania it easier to point fingers at Israel, which is supposed to sit back and take hits from missiles in Gaza, but if it dfends itself is accused of genocide by ppl so ignorant of what the word means you could show them the population explosion in Palestine these last 30 yrs and they would try and tell you it is genocide all the same:"Israel is forcing them to have children!"

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Agreed,

Auschwitz should NEVER happen again, and Muslims visiting and saying as such is proof that regardless of religion people can agree on such things.

And letting them have there little homeland in the Middle East a size of less than the metro-area of New York, and many Muslims who wish to wipe out that state seems to be in conflict with those who can agree on such things.

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Nice to see different religions united to pay their respects for the suffering of all the different people who were imprisoned at Auschwitz.

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Yeah, but don't forget that they were discussing ways of getting their hands on the land long long before WWII.

Agreed, pretty slick to orchestrate and have a genocide done only on themselves so they can end up settling in Palistine only to be surrounded by hostile Arabs who want only want kill them now instead of Aryans and gas chambers.....Yes, Sabi just 'brilliant' on those Zionist's and their "plots".

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smithinjapan: Not only is it going on, it's US government sanctioned with Israel at least. And other places, of course.

I think most people are thinking about real genocide, not made up stuff that white folks and Jew-haters throw around on message boards.

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goddog: If the number of Muslims in Europe now were the same as when Hitler did his atrocious crimes, he sure would have had the Muslims lining up there to be gassed too

Au contraire. The Muslims were aligned with the Nazis during WWII. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem met with Hitler on several occasions in an effort to expedite the extermination of the Jews. There was even a German military division called the Muslim Waffen SS.

WilliB: The good mufti does not mention that the rising anti-semitism in Europe comes almost exclusively from the growing muslim population.

Great point. How ironic that he is concerned about rising anti-semitism and its affect on Muslims, when it's the rising Muslim population that is responsible for the increase in anti-semitism.

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Nice to see different religions united to pay their respects for the suffering of all the different people who were imprisoned at Auschwitz.

I agree. Isn't it hard to believe there are still some sad people in the world that attempt to deny the mass murder committed by the Nazis at Auschwitz. Fortunately, people like the mufti serve to help the world understand that it indeed happened.

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Indeed, that is the role this mufti is playing.

I agree, its sad.

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I meant that it is sad that there are still some people in the world that attempt to deny the mass murder committed by the Nazis at Auschwitz.

I think it is wonderful that the mufti and other Muslim dignitaries served to help the world understand that it indeed happened.

Isn't that what you mean?

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Yeah, its so sad that so many fail to understand. I guess they just don't know any better.

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I agree. It is sad. However, I think some do know better, but choose to knowingly spread the lies and hate and claim the massive slaughter of the Nazis did not occur. Fortunately, we have more and more people like these Muslim dignitaries every day willing to stand up to who spread anti-Semitism and make illogical and crazy claims that the killings at Auschwitz did not happen when logical and sane people know they did.

I am glad to know I understood you correctly and that your above post about the mufti was a mistake.

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"claim the massive slaughter of the Nazis did not occur" > "claim the massive slaughter on the part of the Nazis against those innocent victims did not occur"

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I agree. It is sad. However, I think some do know better, but choose to knowingly spread the lies and hate...

I agree, many do know better and choose to lie.

I believe we do understand each other perfectly.

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Yes, we do. Sadly there are some sad and sick people who continue to attempt to claim millions of Jews and others were not killed by the Nazis. We should pity those sad and sick people. I am glad you and I understand that those who attempt to deny the millions murdered in Auschwitz are warped individuals.

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Again, we both agree that there are some sad, sick, and warped individuals.

Moderator: That's enough, thank you.

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“Holocaust survivors welcome this extraordinary visit as a major blow against the scourge of Holocaust denial and as an act of encouragement to the strengthening of interfaith relations,” Steinberg said. “This delegation will spread the message of mutual tolerance and understanding as the antidote to hate and disrespect. It is a welcome benefit to both Muslim and Jew.”

It is an important message. Good on the dignitaries for making this visit. Hopefully those poor souls who still follow the hate of Holocaust denial and anti-Semitism will someday understand their hate is wrong and mend their ways.

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Yeah, except anti-Semitism is far more prevalent in the Muslim world than anywhere else. Holocaust denial is practically lauded by Iran.

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Yeah, except anti-Semitism is far more prevalent in the Muslim world than anywhere else.

They are certainly more critical of Israel, which unfortunately is counted as antisemitism by certain groups when compiling statistics.

Holocaust denial is practically lauded by Iran.

No, they simply permit open discussion of the subject. Their holocaust conference included speakers from both sides.

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It seems I did misunderstand you. You seem to be promoting Holocaust denial. That is not the same as criticizing Israel. Denying the fact anti-Semitism exists in Muslim countries openly and largely unchallenged is pretty much similar to attempting to deny the millions that died in Auschwitz, ie: preposterous.

FYI, Iran did not allow speakers from 'both sides'. In fact, they went out of their way to deny them a chance to speak. One of those denied a chance was an Israeli Palestinian.

Sad state of affairs when people obssess so much that they begin to hate to the point that they are willing to deny the Nazis killing of millions victims in their camps. Sick, sad and pitiful. To be clear, it is the deniers of the Holocaust that are sad, sick, and warped individuals. We clear now?

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FYI, Iran did not allow speakers from 'both sides'.

They certainly did. Many refused to go, but plenty of speakers at the conference were presenting the official version. I know this goes against the MSM portrayal of the conference; they prefer to focus on David Duke's attendance or Ahmadinejad's mistranslations.

Anyway, open discussion of this and other historical events is the only sane way to move on.

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Your mistaken insistence that Iran allowed speakers to refute Holocaust deniers is as incorrect as the insistence of deniers of the Holocaust killings at Auschwitz and other Nazi camps. Iran did not allow speakers would did not tow the line Iran wanted towed. I provided one case of the Israeli Palestinian who was not allowed into Iran to speak at the conference. There are others who were not allowed to go either.

The world has already 'moved on'. We know how the millions were killed by the Nazis in the camps and we know why they were killed. Talk about it at Iranian conferences all you want, it does not change the fact it happened. Again, To be clear, it is the deniers of the Holocaust that are sad, sick, and warped individuals. The Muslim dignitaries mentioned in this article get it. Maybe it is finally time for you to get it. Get it?

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sabiwabi,

Sorry but you are wrong there you say that many speakers from both sides where invited. How does that work when you cannot get into Iran if you have an Israeli passport (hard for a Israeli Jew to attend). See the case of Khaled Kasab Mahameed an Israeli Arab lawyer who dispite being invited was refused entry to Iran for this reason. The list of who did attend is a who's who of the anti semite racist world. We have a full list of holocaust deniers, KKK members, anti semites and people jailed for promoting racism. Thats definately what l would call a conference aimed at promoting the truth...

Moderator: All readers back on topic please. The conference in Iran is not relevant to this discussion.

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sabiwabi, do you agree with the "official version"?

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The group of some 150 people included representatives from Morocco, Jordan, Turkey and Iraq,...

This was a great gesture by these representatives.

Did anyone from Iran pay their respects at Auschwitz?

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The mufti and other Muslim dignitaries certainly see the danger of Holocaust denial as something sick that should be cured. God bless them.

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Holocaust denials by political leaders such as Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

The AP got it right here.

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Did anyone from Iran pay their respects at Auschwitz?

From the article:

"[Anne-Marie Revcolevschi, head of the Aladdin Project] noted the participation of Karim Lahidji, the head of the Iranian League of Human Rights and a former top lawyer in Tehran, saying: “No one will miss out on how his presence is important.”

See, Iran does not "deny the holocaust", they just want to be able to discuss it freely.

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Karim Lahidji was exiled to France in something like 82 after decrying the horrible actions of the Iranian revolutionary government. He is not a representative of Iran. He lives in France. From the article: 'Envoys from Egypt, Tunisia, Iran and Algeria had to cancel for various reasons, including the current political upheaval in the Mideast.'

In other words, there was no Iranian representative paying their respects at Auschwitz.

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See, you are mistaken.

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In other words, there was no Iranian representative paying their respects at Auschwitz.

Thanks atamant, that's what I suspected.

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They all hate each other... now they don't. Nice.

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Its good that we have members of different religions united to speak against this terrible crime against humanity, of an evil, racist, sick regime that imprisoned millions of humans, and abusing them and killing so many with bullets and poison gas. Never again indeed!

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I agree. The Nazis were indeed an evil, racist and sick regime. We need more people like these dignitaries to stand up against such senseless hate. Sad that Iran could not send anyone. Sad, but not very surprising considering the racist and anti-Semitic progaganda that often emanates from Iran.

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As for Iran, what is antisemitic about it. They only criticize Israel, not Jews, there is a thriving Jewish community living in Iran. And Ahmadinejad also criticizes the fact that we cannot discuss the holocaust openly.

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And Ahmadinejad also criticizes the fact that we cannot discuss the holocaust openly.

Sabiwabi, what exactly do you want to "openly discuss" about it?

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Iran has strict rules about what Jews can and cannot do. One example is that a Jew cannot be a principal of a Jewish school in Iran, it must be a Muslim. There are many others.

Not one representative from Iran came to pay their respects at Auschwitz. That speaks volumes.

Moderator: Readers, this discussion is not about Iran. Please focus your comments on what is in the story and not at or about each other.

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The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was probably the most famous and most popular leader in the Arab world in his time. His enthusiastic and continued support for Hitler would have huge implications for the future of the Middle East. Yasir Arafat began his career working for the Mufti after the war and would continue to praise him as late as 2002.

Arafat's connection to the Mufti and the Mufti's high prestige in the Arab world would create major concerns in the world's Jewish community about the sincerity of the commitment to peace of Arafat and other Arab leaders.

There is only one known photo the meeting between Hitler and the Mufti, and it is barely legible. However, this picture and the actions of the Mufti haunt Arab-Jewish relations to this day.

Reich Chancellory, Berlin November 28, 1941 meeting of German Chancellor Adolf Hitler and Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseiniin the Presence of the Reich Foreign Minister and Minister Grobba

Source: Documents on German Foreign Policy 1918-1945, Series D, Vol XIII, London, 1964, pp.881 ff.

Look it up...

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atamant at 08:24 AM JST - 8th February I agree. The Nazis were indeed an evil, racist and sick regime.

Ironic isn't it? I've just come from the other thread on Muslims seeking to change Hollywood where people are arguing that the vast majority of Muslims are just Joes and Janes trying to pay the bills, and that the terrorists are a tiny, tiny minority.

Exactly the same applies to the vast majority of "Nazis". They weren't fanatics who killed Jews, they were fighting for their country in the army or working in factories, etc. Talk to some older Germans and you'll find out that the vast majority of Germans had no clue about the Holocaust, they knew the Jews were being segregated, but not that they were being killed.

I therefore consider this story quite ironic. Yester-year's villans, the Nazis, villified at Aushwitz by Today's villans, Muslims.

I don't know whether to applaud society for learning to adopt a little perspective and realise that most people are fundamentally nice, and it's the radical minority that are the problem... or to shake my head at the ironic contrast and the failure to apply that same perspective to the present and past at the same time and realise that regardless of how much we may sympathise with the majority of innocent and non-violent Muslims there is still a radical element that needs to be dealt with, and that these sort of public performance pieces are just smokescreens to try and cover up a problem that the Muslim community should be addressing, but isn't.

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Protip: "Discussing the holocaust openly" is code for an attempt at legitimizing their denial. The historical facts were settled, are settled, and will remain settled. This is the same revisionist tactic pulled by people who wish to "Discuss Nanking" or "Discuss the Armenian genocide". Not going to fly.

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