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National Guard ordered in as Ferguson businesses torched

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By JIM SALTER and DAVID A. LIEB

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National Guard ordered in as Ferguson businesses torched

A day late!

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Another case slipping through a crack. Many shots were fired but none from the dead guy, plenty of witnesses but none is reliable, and the case with racial implication but happened to have nine white jurors and only three blacks. The killer walks off scotch free, here is where you can find this law in the land of the free. As they say in America, better shoot to kill as dead man can’t tell tales.

-11 ( +7 / -18 )

Nine jurors with three black. Much better than the demographics! Would have been different with nine black? Evidence is evidence. It is colorless. And initial 'speculation' reported regarding this case made the mind up for many people of all races. It was NOT true what was reported initially!

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Don't call them looters! That is so unfair. They are undocumented shoppers!

10 ( +12 / -2 )

@flowers

We have rule of law in the US. You should try it sometime to see what that means.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

I totally understand that a lot of people are dissatisfied with the decision. What I don't understand is the their behavior! How does looting and destroying businesses help anything? Will this reverse the decision? No! Americans are so primitive!!!

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Ms. AlexanderNOV. 26, 2014 - 09:14AM JST I totally understand that a lot of people are dissatisfied with the decision. What I don't understand is the their behavior! How does looting and destroying businesses help anything? Will this reverse the decision? No! Americans are so primitive!!!

I hope you don't believe your final sentence here. This behavior is not representative of typical Americans. Not by far!

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Baffling. Reminds me of a kid having a temper tantrum and breaking his toys because he's angry with mom and dad.

The officer not being indicted is absolutely ridiculous, but this reaction is just as ridiculous if not more so.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

No indictable facts Stranger. Lots of forensics back up Wilson's story and not the witnesses. Thats not ridiculous one bit.

For your your comfort a Federal investigation is continuing. Holder will not permit any racial oversights if you believe their were.

Those vandals and looters are baffling! I agree. they are broke most of their toys because they are mad at the Man!

1 ( +5 / -4 )

I was of the opinion that the officer was out of line, but after reading through the statements it doesn't appear that is the case. One man makes a compelling argument that Brown looked like he was in a state of confusion after the shots and could have been arrested at that point, but that gets muted by the overall chaos of the situation.

The most compelling statements comes from witnesses that came forward after the initial reports were released. They wanted to set the record straight about the lies that were being told like Brown surrendering, being on his knees, saying he gave up. All lies.

The media isn't helping. The Huff Post, one of my favorite rags, has a headline saying that Brown said he gave up. But the actual article is about the conflicting nature of the testimony. Even the lady who provided the headline got it wrong by saying there were 2 cops in the car. A more honest headline would talk about conflicts in statements and how a lot of the statements weren't backed up by physical evidence. But if you just scan the headline you are made to think the police just ignored her.

The biggest problem is that the U.S. doesn't know how to have a mature conversation about race. It's always done with accusations and inflammatory rhetoric. And you have the usual with people giving their opinions without taking the time to read the grand jury documents. Now we are seeing opinions of famous people who obviously didn't read the evidence and that bugs me. It will just make things worse.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

No indictable facts Stranger. Lots of forensics back up Wilson's story and not the witnesses. Thats not ridiculous one bit.

Chasing down and shooting an unarmed man who has already been shot and is trying to escape is not morally justifiable. Apparently is legally justifiable in the US, but US laws have always been screwed up.

Again, it's ridiculous that he wasn't indicted.

-11 ( +1 / -12 )

No indictable facts Stranger. Lots of forensics back up Wilson's story and not the witnesses. Thats not ridiculous one bit.

Chasing down and shooting an unarmed man who has already been shot and is trying to escape is not morally justifiable. Apparently is legally justifiable in the US, but US laws have always been screwed up.

Again, it's ridiculous that he wasn't indicted.

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

Some police officers can be abusive and sensitive, but the violence and looting are pure act of criminality. The root of the problem is the life style, mentality, and family structure of most African American. Too bad, there are not many good role models in the midst, but too many opportunists and exploiters among minority group. Unless the culture of responsibility, accountability, family value will replace the dependency, drug epidemic, single motherhood... the suffering will continue. Dr. Ben Carlson can be a good example of African American, not Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson. Will they accept it???

6 ( +7 / -1 )

strangerland: Chasing down and shooting an unarmed man who has already been shot and is trying to escape is not morally justifiable. Apparently is legally justifiable in the US, but US laws have always been screwed up.

Sigh. That didn't happen.

8 ( +12 / -4 )

Oh fiddlesticks! I agree with you SuperLib! The US news media has reported rumors and lies as fact.

This along with Al Sharpton who fueled the fire. This man has no shame. This is what he does and profits nicely for doing so.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Polarised society and lots of deprivation leads to this type of reaction when people feel justice has not been done. Fact is this happens in lots of places around the world in reaction to government action or inaction. Just we seem to care less when it is in Bangladesh or South Africa or the like.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

SuperLibNOV. 26, 2014 - 10:21AM JST

strangerland: Chasing down and shooting an unarmed man who has already been shot and is trying to escape is not morally justifiable. Apparently is legally justifiable in the US, but US laws have always been screwed up.

Sigh. That didn't happen.

Stranger must have other facts on this case the the state of MO reported incorrectly. Or, the media has a sort of zombie spell Strangerland.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

I hope you don't believe your final sentence here. This behavior is not representative of typical Americans. Not by far!

I agree with you MarkG but only partially. Outrage has now become a community organizing tactic in America. It is certainly primitive. True, the senseless rioting doesn't represent 'typical Americans' but a growing number of Americans see the world differently in today's hyper-polarized social and political environment.

Obama's advisors Al Sharpton and Eric Holder asked to be notified ahead of the decision so they could mobilize for it. Like the Trevon Martin incident, Brown's death is a tool to stir up racial resentment. And the damage done by the race hustlers always serve to perpetuate the problem. The destroyed businesses and the dwindling employment opportunities in Ferguson are simply collateral damage. The damage done to the country by the obsessive focus on racial differences serves only to benefit the Democrat party.

When a black policeman shot an unarmed white man in Utah at about the same time as Brown, did you hear Eric Holder asking for justice for Dillon Taylor? Oh wait, you've never heard of Dillon Taylor have you?

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58472404-78/taylor-cruz-hands-gill.html.csp

0 ( +3 / -3 )

According to testimony from Wilson in documents released from the Grand Jury proceedings, Wilson shot Brown twice. Brown ran away. Wilson pursued. Brown stopped and turned around, and Wilson shot him. And everyone agrees that Brown was unarmed.

If that's not chasing down down an unarmed suspect who has already been shot and is trying to escape, then you tell me what is.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

StrangerlandNov. 26, 2014 - 09:52AM JST

Baffling. Reminds me of a kid having a temper tantrum and breaking his toys because he's angry with mom and dad.

Yeah, but replace "breaking his toys" with "burning innocent peoples' life savings and putting them out on the street".

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Unfortunate that this happened. Brown's parents certainly didn't want this outcome. And to add insult to injury, this doesn't make America look good.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Yeah, but replace "breaking his toys" with "burning innocent peoples' life savings and putting them out on the street".

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. I wasn't actually concerned that people were breaking their toys.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The most compelling statements comes from witnesses that came forward after the initial reports were released. They wanted to set the record straight about the lies that were being told like Brown surrendering, being on his knees, saying he gave up. All lies.

The most compelling statements came from the white construction workers who -- having no connection to Brown or the neighborhood -- witnessed the last moments of the shooting. They do not have Brown on his knees, but clearly wounded with his hands out to his sides in a gesture that appeared to them to be giving up. (And no sign of any charging action by Brown.)

Any reader would be well-advised to watch Errol Morris's 1988 documentary The Thin Blue Line. The film helped free a wrongly convicted man from death row. In reviewing and presenting the case for viewers, the eyewitness evidence is extremely compelling and is what ended up convicting the man. When Morris dug deeper, he found that each of these witnesses was "bribed" by police to provide their "testimony." Each witness either had charges pending, or had a family member looking at charges, which the police and D.A. were willing to lessen or drop entirely in exchange for their favorable testimony.

Of course, Morris could find this because each witness' name was part of the public trial record. He has one of them admitting on film that he actually didn't see anything. In the Ferguson grand jury case, these witnesses remain anonymous, and never subject to anything resembling expert cross-examination.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

According to testimony from Wilson in documents released from the Grand Jury proceedings, Wilson shot Brown twice. Brown ran away. Wilson pursued. Brown stopped and turned around, and Wilson shot him. And everyone agrees that Brown was unarmed.

Brown stopped and turned around. Then he started to move towards the cop. The cop told him to stop. Brown did not stop. The officer shot.

The only question in my mind is what Browns mental state was at that point. He was likely out of his mind. He had just robbed a store, wrestled with a cop through a car window, and been shot. Who knows what he was thinking when he did not stop. He might have been staggering forward as one witness described, and not charging.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

When a black policeman shot an unarmed white man in Utah at about the same time as Brown, did you hear Eric Holder asking for justice for Dillon Taylor?

I've seen the bodycam video of the Taylor shooting and it's another over-reaction by a cowardly cop who murdered an unarmed young man. Like the Brown case, the officer was exonerated by a grand jury and a D.A. who refused to recommend charges. Nobody believes you give a care about either of these two men, Wolfpack. As always, your craven self uses them as a prop to attack Obama and Holder on racial grounds.

Here's a video of a guy -- quite big -- who physically attacks two cops, neither of whom reaches for a gun.

http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/11/24/white-man-beats-two-cops-shots-fired-unarmed-black-man-gets-shot-reason/

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Top forensic investigators support those as facts SuperLib. Somehow some posters here know different. Rather silly. They were not part of the investigation....or were they? How else could they have so called facts of the scenario the public does not!

Where was the outrage when OJ Simpson murdered two people and was found not guilty? I recall disappointment. Thats it!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Who is preventing national guard from deploying during the announcement of the verdict? Missouri Governor, Eric Holder, White house, or anyone else???

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Strangerland:

" Brown stopped and turned around, and Wilson shot him. And everyone agrees that Brown was unarmed. "

It is interesting how a little choice of words can completely change the meaning of a statement. What you call "turned around", a witness descrbes as "charged Wilson with his dead down, like a football player". Which apparenty matches the forensic analysis.

I was not there and neither was you, but I tend to give the legal process more credit that website commentators and street mobs.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Am not condoning/never will condone looting and violence, but...whole lot of people posting comments here who cannot possibly understand the years' and lifetimes' worth of anger and frustration that are causing this nationwide outlash.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Yabits:

" I've seen the bodycam video of the Taylor shooting and it's another over-reaction by a cowardly cop who murdered an unarmed young man. "

OK. Maybe. I take your word for it. However, where the mobs burning down the town? Where was the pre-judgement of the case? Where was the media brouhaha? Where were Obama, Holder, and the activists? Notably by their absence, no? That is the difference that I notice as an outsider.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

However, where the mobs burning down the town? Where was the pre-judgement of the case? Where was the media brouhaha?

You reveal much with your own questions. Racists and/or bigots will often select an "outlier" example and pretend it equates with something that is routine and systemic.

The white community can't hold up example after example of whites being shot at a whim -- just like this Taylor shooting. If it were a trend, rest assured, whites would be up in arms. Remember what they used to do to blacks who stepped out of line -- only a few decades ago? Well, now that's largely been replace by police who shoot, choke, or otherwise abuse with little or no provocation.

There is as much media brouhaha for the Taylor case as there is for the case of Victor White III -- a black man who, police claimed -- shot himself in the chest while he was handcuffed with his hands behind him in the back of a police cruiser. (After he had been searched twice.) But there are a great many other examples of this that the black community can point to being suffered by them -- without most whites giving a rat's ass. It is almost routine.

Seriously, you can't understand that? You can't grasp why a camel's back shouldn't break when a single straw is laid on it?

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

So if the testimony is to be believed, and the people finding the officer guilty here are to believed, I guess then it's ok for suspected criminals to punch out the cops now.

People don't want to believe the fact that the officer felt himself in danger, a veteran cop, not a rookie. I would hate to have to change places with him and make the same split second judgments that he had to make and face the kangaroo courts here.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Open and shut case forensics wise. But too much for racially skewed minds to accept evidently. Yabits and strangerland define surrendering differently from the rest of us. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/ferguson-grand-jury-findings/?tid=sm_fb

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Who is preventing national guard from deploying during the announcement of the verdict?

The Missouri Governor was asked that question before, and he left that decision up to the DA. That must be some DA to have so much power. Stupid leadership.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The US is a cess pool they can complain to every country about human rights and now look at the problems they have. Two years ago 3 white cops beat a homeless white an to death all captured on video and no cops went to jail! One thing in America when you give a cop a gun and a badge they up hold the law and in return the law does not put those who protect it in jail! Not once have I ever heard of a police going to jail in a situation like this! The US should not talk about NK and China human rights they have major problems and this is just the beginning especially when the pResident just gave 5million illegals permits to work. Those people will now compete for US workers jobs! I see riots and ferguson is grand zero!

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Another case where police are not held accountable for their actions! Being a police officer in Ferguson in the future is now going to be a lot more dangerous, with no charges against the police officers in question, and with the amount of damage caused after the verdict, it looks like it might become open season on Fergusons finest.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

So if the testimony is to be believed, and the people finding the officer guilty here are to believed, I guess then it's ok for suspected criminals to punch out the cops now.

I don't think anyone has said or even implied that punching the police is acceptable. As far as I'm concerned, if Brown attacked the officer, and it appears he did, then the officer was justified in shooting him at that point.

It's the chasing him down and killing a shot, bleeding, unarmed man that is the problem.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Strangerland, I'm of the opinion that Brown did make movement towards the cop. The question would be if that was aggressive or not. And that will never really be proven either way.

One witness said it was more like a stagger. The cop said it was a charge. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Who knows what was going on in Brown's body at the time, If the cop was the person people say he is, and if he has impunity, it makes no sense for him to see Brown stop and not shoot. It makes no sense for the cop to wait for him to turn around and not shoot. He would have already killed him by that point. Something happened after those two things and I don't believe it was the cop suddenly realizing that he could get away with murder.

One difference between our opinions is that I probably give the cop more leeway due to the nature of the job and situation. When someone attacks a cop through the window of his car it gets the adrenaline flowing. As a human it's probably next to impossible to read Brown's mind and suddenly switch off all of those emotions. Maybe Brown's movement towards the cop was a surrender, but Brown himself destroyed the prospect that a reasonable person he just attacked would read it like that.

I held off on talking about this story until now since I knew it would be a circus, but on many occasions I criticized the actions of the police force during the initial unrest. I criticized the tanks and the snipers. I criticized the cops arresting journalists. When the story about the white construction workers came out I even made a comment that it probably tips the scales to me siding with Brown. But after reading the grand jury information I changed my opinion and now I mostly side with the cop. That's to say I have zero entrenched positions and I'm not afraid to criticize the police.

One thing Brown supporters are not talking about is that this was just a grand jury. Had an indictment come down I can't imagine there would be enough evidence to convict. Not by a mile. Instead of waiting for the riots after a trial, we are getting them now. There are some people who won't be satisfied unless the cop is found guilty.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

yabits:

" The white community can't hold up example after example of whites being shot at a whim -- just like this Taylor shooting. "

I don´t know if there is a "white community", but anyway. I simply pointed out the obvious difference in the media and reaction... very similar situation, only with skin color reversed. If that is not definition of racism, I don´t know what is.

And if there are fewer black cops shooting whites than white cops shooting blacks, isn´t that simply a statistical reflection of the fact that there are fewer black cops? Besides, if "examples" are never reported in the first place, how would we know about them? You yourself did not know about the case, I only knew it because I noticed it by chance in a small article. There was certainly no big media splash about it, it was all but buried.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

SuperLib

One witness said it was more like a stagger. The cop said it was a charge.

Brown's blood was found 25 yds past where he body finally lay, meaning after turning around to face Officer Wilson, Brown advanced towards him 25 yards. Sorry, but that's not a "stagger" in any sane person's book and obviously the grand jury's.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

No matter what anyone says here, we are all arm chair judging one side or the other what happened here. The testimony has been released and it's pretty obvious if one reads it with a clear mind who is right and who was wrong here.

Problem is folks WANT to believe the cop was wrong and refuse to accept that he wasn't.

The bigger problem that needs to be addressed is what caused this in the first place and those issues should take precedent moving forward.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

In the U.S. homicide is the leading cause of death among young black men, who are 10 times more likely than their white counterparts to be murdered. More than 90% of black murder victims are killed by other blacks. Pretending that police behavior is the root of the problem is foolish.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

I doubt there is any rational argument that would convince the protesters to accept the decision. All that matters for them is that the cop is white and the dead guy is black. Anything else seems irrelevant. It is think that is 100% based on race.... scary.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I don´t know if there is a "white community", but anyway. I simply pointed out the obvious difference in the media and reaction... very similar situation, only with skin color reversed. If that is not definition of racism, I don´t know what is.

You used the term "I don't know" twice in that paragraph. I agree with you on both counts.

Brown's blood was found 25 yds past where he body finally lay, meaning after turning around to face Officer Wilson, Brown advanced towards him 25 yards. Sorry, but that's not a "stagger"

25 yards?. The actual case testimony, based on the physical evidence, makes it as 20 feet. There are several sources for this: "The grand jury received an analysis of the scene which revealed that a trail of Brown’s blood went on 20 feet past his body." Twenty feet is definitely staggering distance, especially when considering where on Brown's body you are starting your measuring point.

Keep in mind this is the same police force that told the public that Brown's body was a mere 35 feet from the vehicle, when they had days to measure and verify the actual distance -- which we finally learned from the hearings was more like 150 feet.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2848749/Highlights-testimony-heard-grand-jury-declined-indict-Ferguson-cop-Darren-Wilson-Michael-Brown-shooting.html

Yabits and strangerland define surrendering differently from the rest of us.

No. We're just not ignorant and gullible repeaters of total falsehoods. 25 yards indeed.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@stranger

Chasing down and shooting an unarmed man who has already been shot and is trying to escape is not morally justifiable.

Nor is beating the crap out of a police officer.

Apparently is legally justifiable in the US, but US laws have always been screwed up.

Screwed up? Don't get me started, I can pick out laws in Europe that are far, far worse...

Again, it's ridiculous that he wasn't indicted.

That's what you say, but you weren't there and you didn't see ANY of the evidence, if he wasn't indicted, there wasn't a reasonable doubt to indict him...or they should have just indict him because the racists tried to put pressure on the Feds? Would that have been acceptable to you?

@yabits

Why not post something you consider an important "fact" instead of your empty words? If you know what a "fact" is can truly present one, you may have a point.

I am betting you can't post a fact that would stand up to a challenge by other facts, judging by your post.

I can. Wilson is a free man, regardless of what OUR opinions might be, he had his day in court and that's that. That's a fact!

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

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