78 countries at Swiss conference agree Ukraine's territorial integrity must be basis of any peace

The final document signed by 78 countries said the U.N. Charter and “respect for territorial integrity and sovereignty … can and will serve as a basis for achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in Ukraine.”

This is crucial. We can't allow tin-pot dictators to practice imperialism as the wish. They must be stopped. That was the case in 1939 and still is the case now.

That has been a nonstarter for Putin, who wants Ukraine to cede more territory and back away from its hopes of joining the NATO military alliance.

Putin has to realise that this war will continue to drain Russian resources and that the sooner he withdraws, the sooner Russia can recover.

Apparently Brazil, India, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Thailand and the United Arab Emirates are all offering up their territory for the betterment of humankind. Quite generous, really.

But, didn’t they hear Lord Putin’s generous offer to stop blowing up Ukraine (for now), if only it gives him land he hasn’t yet taken and submits to the illegal seizure of the land he has?

Oh, and it remains beyond the protection of the most successful collective self-defense treaty ever?

It’s almost like it was an “offer” too stupid to merit serious consideration….

We just see strong double standard for Palestine, such hypocrites there.

Apparently Brazil, India, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Thailand and the United Arab Emirates are all offering up their territory for the betterment of humankind. Quite generous, really.

I, for one, do not want to hear a word from Mexico when King Trump I creates a 100-mile buffer zone in what was formerly Northern Mexico for protection from the cartels and migrants, lol.

sakurasukiToday 07:14 am JST

We just see strong double standard for Palestine, such hypocrites there.

I will expect to see you condemning Russia then. Glad you've come around. Meanwhile, this conference is completely unrelated to Palestine.

In all seriousness though, good to see nations come together on this.

Crimea was Austria, Donbas was the Sudetenland, the rest of Ukraine is the rest of Czechoslovakia.

He is insisting on ceding Ukrainian territory -- even territory that today is not occupied by him,

In that way Putin is similar to Xi, because any land he wants and imagines having is his. A former US politician wanted to buy Greenland, leaders that are deluded need replacing, for exaample that US politician, unfortunately citizens of many countries still are allowed to vote out delusional leaders, sadly Chinese and Russian citizens currently can't vote their leaders out. Though Russia might have a chance to do so in 2036, maybe earlier if the fates allow.

@TaiwanIsNotChina

I will expect to see you condemning Russia then. Glad you've come around. Meanwhile, this conference is completely unrelated to Palestine.

Where's the sanction for occupier, really? Where's weapon supply and money go? Please might want to check it again.

sakurasuki

I will expect to see you condemning Russia then. Glad you've come around. Meanwhile, this conference is completely unrelated to Palestine.

Where's the sanction for occupier, really?

There have been many sanctions imposed on Russia and a new set just last week.

Where's weapon supply and money go?

To Ukraine to defend themselves.

Please might want to check it again.

Nope, don't think so.

Ukraine is Europes bread basket.

Food security one of the forefront issues in this century.

A new doco titled "Grab " examines how nations as diverse as China and Saudi Arabia are buying up the planet.

One dry state in the USA has no legislation on water aquifer use....I think China has invested there.

We are doomed ...doomed !! ...DOOMED !!!!!!... I tells ya .

@202oH: We can't allow tin-pot dictators to practice imperialism as the wish. They must be stopped. That was the case in 1939 and still is the case now.

I agree, but I'm anti-totalitarian and pro-democracy, unfortunately there is a minority in democracies siding with the pro-totalitarians including some 'opposition' politicians, hopefully they can be voted out by a majority preferring that their nation continues as a democracy.

2020hindsights

Today 07:56 am JST

Where's weapon supply and money go?

> To Ukraine to defend themselves.

> Please might want to check it again.

> Nope, don't think so.

Of course you don't want to check it out! Reality isn't in the books!

I mean why look up facts that even western news have been pointing out lately.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukrainian-commander-kharkiv-says-1st-line-defense-missing-betrayal-2024-5

Zelensky has been firing people left and right because the corruption is over the top!

No defense in Kharkiv and Sumi, fake minefields fake trenches all on paper only!

The killer is the head of defense in Kharkiv/Sumi was appointed in 2022 because his predecessors was also corrupt!

But don't look because you don't want to see what you don't like, right?

They must be stopped. That was the case in 1939 and still is the case now.

I like how this will regularly he used but the same people will scream if you point out USA actions after WW2 and call anything whataboutism or long past!

Interesting the selective nature of some people.

TaiwanIsNotChina

Today 07:04 am JST

Apparently Brazil, India, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Thailand and the United Arab Emirates are all offering up their territory for the betterment of humankind. Quite generous, really.

Well perhaps Mexico is waiting for the USA to return the territory it took using the same excuse as Russia is today!

Oh wait I forgot we can't compare with the past because, well that you be the do as I say not as I do/did!

Note that not a single member of BRICS signed onto this 'agreement', which is more significant (given their diversity) than all of the G7 having done so.

Key phrase:

mostly Western countries.

ie the Global Majority can see right through the west (read USA)'s hare-brained schemes to keep US hegemony as the status quo.

Taiwan:

Apparently Brazil, India, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Thailand and the United Arab Emirates are all offering up their territory for the betterment of humankind. Quite generous, really.

And I see Germany was very generous in carving up part of its country for the Jewish people. Not! Instead, they let the Palestinians pay for their own crimes.

As for the Ukraine, many of us know what's been happening there since 2014, even if the mainstream media no longer reports on what went on prior to 2022.

These western (including Japan and South Korea) leaders are all lame ducks and have low approval ratings for a reason. And the 'leader' of Ukraine is no longer that since he banned elections (after banning oppostion parties and media organizations). His term is over.

Ukraine should take the terms that Russia is offering as it will be the best deal they will ever get. It only gets worse from here.

Ukraine should take the terms that Russia is offering as it will be the best deal they will ever get. It only gets worse from here.

For the Russians, that is.

They have a demographic bomb about to go off. They’re a spent force.

this one would have surrendered to the Nazis in 41 because “this is the best deal we’re going to get.”

AntiquesavingToday 08:52 am JST

TaiwanIsNotChina

Today 07:04 am JST

Apparently Brazil, India, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, Thailand and the United Arab Emirates are all offering up their territory for the betterment of humankind. Quite generous, really.

Well perhaps Mexico is waiting for the USA to return the territory it took using the same excuse as Russia is today!

Oh wait I forgot we can't compare with the past because, well that you be the do as I say not as I do/did!

They've never raised the issue in a hundred years and preferred to just populate it with their citizens, since you asked. We're only trying to send Russia back to 2014 borders but you want to return the US to 1848. I'm sure we can find some additional adjustments for Russia if you'd like.

Pukey2Today 09:08 am JST

As for the Ukraine, many of us know what's been happening there since 2014, even if the mainstream media no longer reports on what went on prior to 2022.

No, we know there was an initial Russian invasion in 2014.

TaiwanIsNotChina

Today 09:33 am JST

They've never raised the issue in a hundred years

Actually they have, but let's not look at facts, right?

We're only trying to send Russia back to 2014 borders but you want to return the US to 1848. I'm sure we can find some additional adjustments for Russia if you'd like.

So where do you put the cut off time that is relevant?

Come on let us know!

1939, how about 1950, or 1990, maybe 1905, etc....

Funny you and others like only dates that you have a view on but then dismiss the same dates if on a different subject (like China) the dates are not in your favour!

AntiquesavingToday 09:40 am JST

They've never raised the issue in a hundred years

Actually they have, but let's not look at facts, right?

Sources or it didn't happen.

We're only trying to send Russia back to 2014 borders but you want to return the US to 1848. I'm sure we can find some additional adjustments for Russia if you'd like.

So where do you put the cut off time that is relevant?

Yes, we're asking to return Russia to Mongolia.

Funny you and others like only dates that you have a view on but then dismiss the same dates if on a different subject (like China) the dates are not in your favour!

What dates that are not in our favor? The ROC has been independent since 1912.

But they have already paid for their territorial integrity, by giving away the former nuclear armaments. And we see now, what negative and expensive results this has brought, a severe threat on existence instead of peaceful coexistence. Additional costs like all the war dead, annexation of five provinces, destroyed infrastructure, losses in agriculture and industry, devastated accommodation buildings and all the currently paid support costs for defense, paid by themselves and those paid by the West, that all has to be paid back and rebuilt by Russian aggressors, who of course have to withdraw and go back behind own borders. The only additional point understandable is, that Russia wants or feels the need of a buffer zone to NATO, so that Ukraine doesn't become a member.

we're not asking*

Sven AsaiToday 09:44 am JST

The only additional point understandable is, that Russia wants or feels the need of a buffer zone to NATO, so that Ukraine doesn't become a member.

Russia had plenty of land in 2014 on which to build a buffer zone.

RichardPearce

Note that not a single member of BRICS signed onto this 'agreement', which is more significant (given their diversity) than all of the G7 having done so.

Russia and China have their arms twisted. It's not their financial interests to speak their minds.

Antiquesaving

By that I mean we are going to see 10 to 20 dislikes on anything comments not supporting Ukraine but such high voting is not reflected in most other articles!

Because people support the oppressed and can't understand why people would side with evil imperialist dictators.

Sven Asai

The only additional point understandable is, that Russia wants or feels the need of a buffer zone to NATO, so that Ukraine doesn't become a member.

No, they do not feel the need of a buffer zone to NATO.

You do know they have nukes, right!

Something tells me that in Putin's bathroom, the toilet paper in his john has territorial integrity stamped all over it.

TaiwanIsNotChina

Today 09:38 am JST

No, we know there was an initial Russian invasion in 2014.

Interesting but if we actually look at 2014 we notice the Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea were not alone!

The reason Ukraine couldn't hold those regions was because they were busy with the same happening in Kharkiv, Dnipropetrovsk, zaporizhia, Kherson, Mykoliav, Odessa, basically every region that has voted pro Russia since 1991!

But again let's ignore the fact that these regions have consistently voted pro Russia in every election between 1991 and 2014.

Yep western news and governments did a good kid ignoring that fighting was over this entire region not just Donetsk Luhansk and all the military intervention in the other regions was what gave Donetsk Luhansk the time to prepare better and get weapons from Russia!

Had it just been these 2 regions the Ukrainian military would have stopped them in a few weeks!

So lets not pretend that Russia was the only one involved, Odessa was fighting but without arms connection to Russia they failed.

Look at any voting result from every national election in Ukraine before Euromaidan and in every case it was 50/50 pro West pro Russia divided right along the east west boundary.

What fraction of the world's population do those 78 signatories represent? The 78 "countries" that signed the statement include such powerhouses as: Andorra, Cabo Verde, Comoros, Council of Europe, Cyprus, Estonia, European Commission, European Council, European Parliament, Fiji, Malta, Monaco, Montenegro, Palau, San Marino, Sao Tomé and Principe, Suriname, Sweden, Switzerland, and Timor Leste.

Interestingly israel also signed it, so what do they mean by "territorial integrity"???

2020hindsights

Today 09:50 am JST

To quote UChosePoorly:

> Crimea was Austria, Donbas was the Sudetenland, the rest of Ukraine is the rest of Czechoslovakia.

Except on problem!

Austria was never part of Germany but Crimea was Russia until the Soviet leader gave it to Ukraine.

Donnas was never part of any country called Ukraine and was again part of Russia as Sudetenland was never part of Germany.

Or was this part of history not relevant?

Funny how Ukraine passed laws condemning everything Soviet, the de-sovietisation of Ukraine, but the one thing they decided was good for them, the illegal transfer of Crimea to Ukraine by the Soviet leaders, well that was ok!

only about half of U.N. member countries took part

About 100 delegations, mostly Western countries, attended the conference

The final document signed by 78 countries

Viola Amherd, the Swiss president, told a news conference the “great majority” of participants agreed to the final document, which “shows what diplomacy can achieve." Foreign Minister Ignazio Cassis said Switzerland would reach out to Russian authorities but did not say what the message would be.

Good luck

The reason Ukraine couldn't hold those regions was because they were busy with the same happening in Kharkiv, Dnipropetrovsk, zaporizhia, Kherson, Mykoliav, Odessa, basically every region that has voted pro Russia since 1991!

But again let's ignore the fact that these regions have consistently voted pro Russia in every election between 1991 and 2014.

Kharkiv, Dnipro, Odessa, Kherson, Mykoliav and Zaphorizia all voted for Zelensky.

Realistic peace terms were proffered before this meaningless exercise and the olive branch was swiftly snapped in two.

Now it will be decided on the battlefield and to the victor the spoils.

rainyday

Today 10:13 am JST

The reason Ukraine couldn't hold those regions was because they were busy with the same happening in Kharkiv, Dnipropetrovsk, zaporizhia, Kherson, Mykoliav, Odessa, basically every region that has voted pro Russia since 1991!

> But again let's ignore the fact that these regions have consistently voted pro Russia in every election between 1991 and 2014.

> Kharkiv, Dnipro, Odessa, Kherson, Mykoliav and Zaphorizia all voted for Zelensky

I guess 2014 and 2019 are the same, right?

Oh did we forget that part?

Antiquesaving

To quote UChosePoorly:

Crimea was Austria, Donbas was the Sudetenland, the rest of Ukraine is the rest of Czechoslovakia.*

Except on problem!

Austria was never part of Germany but Crimea was Russia until the Soviet leader gave it to Ukraine.

Irrelevant.

Donnas was never part of any country called Ukraine

Yes, it was. It was part of Ukraine in 1991.

and was again part of Russia as Sudetenland was never part of Germany.

Again, irrelevant.

Or was this part of history not relevant?

Exactly. In 1991 the borders of Ukraine were agreed, or should legal agreements not be honoured?

Funny how Ukraine passed laws condemning everything Soviet, the de-sovietisation of Ukraine, but the one thing they decided was good for them, the illegal transfer of Crimea to Ukraine by the Soviet leaders, well that was ok!

You are conflating completely different things. The de-Sovietization of Ukraine was agreed by Ukraine, not old school Soviet laws.

And let us not forget:

this territorial integrity must include all illegally occupied areas, including but not limited to Crimea!

Ukraine prevails!

2020hindsights

Today 10:29 am JST

and was again part of Russia as Sudetenland was never part of Germany.

> Again, irrelevant

Wait you are the one that brought it up as a comparison now it is irrelevant?

Make up your mind!

Antiquesaving

and was again part of Russia as Sudetenland was never part of Germany.

Again, irrelevant*

Wait you are the one that brought it up as a comparison now it is irrelevant?

Make up your mind!

If you can't work out the analogy that's on you, not me.

What reality? Yours?

The reality that exists in the real world is not something I can claim exclusive possession of. Your fantasy land is, of course, entirely your own.

I pointed out 2014 you go on with 2019 after the 2015 banning of parties and candidates that were pro Russia, yes facts do matter the 2022 ban on parties was not the first!

Also after the Russians invaded their country. Go figure.

And if you remember Zelensky promised to protect Russian minority rights and make peace with Moscow, but then doubled down on anti Russian language and rights!

Hmmm, oh yes, implementing language laws that don't seem much different from those used to protect the French language in Quebec. I'm not sold on that justifying a murderous war of aggression. If your delusions lead you to that conclusion there isn't much one can say really.

Raw BeerToday 10:05 am JST

What fraction of the world's population do those 78 signatories represent?

Humanity is a terrible species as represented by the 115 others. I bet those 78 represent over a billion people, though, so all is not lost.

https://www.worlddata.info/alliances/oecd.php

rainyday

Today 10:33 am JST

So? There was a legal process followed in transferring Crimea to Ukraine in 1954 too, nobody forced the Soviet Union to do that.

Again history and facts

on 25 January 1954, paving the way for the authorizing resolution of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union three weeks later. According to the Soviet Constitution (article 18), the borders of a republic within the Soviet Union could not be re-drawn without the agreement of the republic in question. The transfer was approved by the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union. The constitutional change (articles 22 and 23) to accommodate the transfer was made several days after the decree issued by the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet.

So the transfer was not legal and was made legal retroactively without consent of the Republic.

Yeah, funny how you and others reject everything the Soviets did but when you like it you suddenly are fine with it!

Antiquesaving

I pointed out 2014 you go on with 2019 after the 2015 banning of parties and candidates that were pro Russia, yes facts do matter the 2022 ban on parties was not the first!

I'm not really sure why you are letting us know the voting patterns of different regions of Ukraine from 2014, it's not relevant.

The only relevant part is Russia getting involved in annexing Ukraine and fomenting dissent and starting the civil war in the Donbass.

That is Russia's MO. They did it in Georgia and they will do it in Moldova, depending on the result of the October elections. If a pro-Moscow candidate doesn't get elected, Russia will get involved.

Kharkiv, Dnipro, Odessa, Kherson, Mykoliav and Zaphorizia all voted for Zelensky.

Yeah, because his campaign promises included fighting corruption and putting an end to the fighting with Russia. Unfortunately, people believed this actor.

He immediately did the exact opposite of what he promised.

Antiquesaving

Yeah, funny how you and others reject everything the Soviets did but when you like it you suddenly are fine with it!

What the we are fine with is the Act of Declaration of Independence of Ukraine in 1991.

Ukraine is losing and Russia is holding all the cards.

So the transfer was not legal and was made legal retroactively without consent of the Republic.

Yeah, funny how you and others reject everything the Soviets did but when you like it you suddenly are fine with it!

You gotta really delve pretty deep into the minutia of Soviet Constitutional procedure to even try to cobble together an argument based solely on a technicality that is irrelevant to anyone who isn't desperately trying to come up with something - anything! - to try and justify this insanity.

Your heartfelt commitment to upholding the sanctity of Soviet Constitutional law is most affecting. The rest of the world has long moved on from caring.

proxy

Ukraine is losing and Russia is holding all the cards.

So, when are they going to "win"?

What does winning even look like to Putin?

2020hindsights

Today 10:43 am JST

I'm not really sure why you are letting us know the voting patterns of different regions of Ukraine from 2014, it's not relevant.

Again "not relevant" you do use that a lot when you are not the one saying something!

1939 because you say it is relevant, point out the difference based on your comment well "not relevant", you bring up Austria and Sudetenland it is relevant, I point out the difference and suddenly "not relevant".

Funny how your view is the only relevant thing!

78 countries at Swiss conference agree Ukraine's territorial integrity must be basis of any peace

or

78 countries at Swiss conference agree, they don’t care how many Ukrainians have to die or how much money they have to print to keep the serfs at war and distracted. Life is supposed to get easier with tech and a global economy, or so they promote anyway.

Yeah, because his campaign promises included fighting corruption and putting an end to the fighting with Russia. Unfortunately, people believed this actor.

He immediately did the exact opposite of what he promised.

Oh my god! You mean a politician made a political promise during a campaign which he failed to keep after being elected?

Why, lord, have you allowed such things to happen in this world? WHY? That has never happened before anywhere else and I just absolutely had no idea such dreadful things could happen in this day and age.

I totally get why you guys support a Fascist dictator in Moscow waging a murderous war of aggression against Western civilization now. Thank you for the explanation.

Antiquesaving

I'm not really sure why you are letting us know the voting patterns of different regions of Ukraine from 2014, it's not relevant.

Again "not relevant" you do use that a lot when you are not the one saying something!

I'm struggling to find your point. Are you saying that it was OK for Russia to start a civil war in 2014 because people voted pro-Russian in internal elections?

1939 because you say it is relevant, point out the difference based on your comment well "not relevant", you bring up Austria and Sudetenland it is relevant, I point out the difference and suddenly "not relevant".

Again, if you can't work out the analogy, don't blame me. It's not even my analogy, but I get it.

Funny how your view is the only relevant thing!

No, many other relevant posters here: rainyday, TaiwanIsNotChina, John, etc.

AntiquesavingToday 10:03 am JST

TaiwanIsNotChina

Today 09:38 am JST

No, we know there was an initial Russian invasion in 2014.

Interesting but if we actually look at 2014 we notice the Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea were not alone!

They were alone in having Russian troops breaking them off of Ukraine.

The reason Ukraine couldn't hold those regions was because they were busy with the same happening in Kharkiv, Dnipropetrovsk, zaporizhia, Kherson, Mykoliav, Odessa, basically every region that has voted pro Russia since 1991!

Russia was invading while the Euromaidan was still being sorted out so yeah Ukraine wasn't able to resist the aggression effectively.

But again let's ignore the fact that these regions have consistently voted pro Russia in every election between 1991 and 2014.

Seems pretty stupid of Putin to have made it impossible for Kyiv to hold elections there then, isn't it?

Yep western news and governments did a good kid ignoring that fighting was over this entire region not just Donetsk Luhansk and all the military intervention in the other regions was what gave Donetsk Luhansk the time to prepare better and get weapons from Russia!

I believe some sources are in order that there was any major conflict in the other regions.

Had it just been these 2 regions the Ukrainian military would have stopped them in a few weeks!

I'm reading they did roll them almost back to Russia but then Russia sent more invaders.

So lets not pretend that Russia was the only one involved, Odessa was fighting but without arms connection to Russia they failed.

I know, 46 people died. That was a truly bloody part of the "civil war". /sarcasm

2020hindsights

Today 09:50 am JST

To quote UChosePoorly:

Crimea was Austria, Donbas was the Sudetenland, the rest of Ukraine is the rest of Czechoslovakia.

Except on problem!

Austria was never part of Germany but Crimea was Russia until the Soviet leader gave it to Ukraine.

Crimea was not "Russia" until 1783 or was this part of history not relevant? QQ about Khrushchev but you have lots of land and other black sea ports. If Russia wasn't such a scummy country, they might have been able to continue to lease the base in Crimea.

Funny how Ukraine passed laws condemning everything Soviet, the de-sovietisation of Ukraine, but the one thing they decided was good for them, the illegal transfer of Crimea to Ukraine by the Soviet leaders, well that was ok!

You don't get to decide how Ukraine interprets its laws or what laws it passes.

rainydayToday 10:50 am JST

Your heartfelt commitment to upholding the sanctity of Soviet Constitutional law is most affecting. The rest of the world has long moved on from caring.

It's a shame only one plus vote is possible.

Didn’t little Z cancel elections? Notice they didn’t write protecting democracy this time. LOL

TaiwanIsNotChina

Today 11:00 am JST

Crimea was not "Russia" until 1783 or was this part of history not relevant?

Thank you for proving my point!

All along you and others say not relevant, too old, long past history, etc..

But now it suits your position you go even further back!

Interesting!