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Republican presidential candidate former President Donald Trump speaks at a Get Out The Vote rally at Coastal Carolina University in Conway, S.C., Saturday, Feb. 10, 2024. (AP Photo/Manuel Balce Ceneta)
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NATO leader says Trump puts allies at risk by saying Russia can 'do whatever the hell they want’

204 Comments
By VANESSA GERA and LORNE COOK

The head of the NATO military alliance warned Sunday that Donald Trump was putting the safety of U.S. troops and their allies at risk after the Republican presidential front-runner said Russia should be able to do "whatever the hell they want" to NATO members who don't meet their defense spending targets.

“Any suggestion that allies will not defend each other undermines all of our security, including that of the U.S., and puts American and European soldiers at increased risk,” NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said in a statement.

Speaking Saturday at a rally in Conway, South Carolina, Trump recalled how as president he told an unidentified NATO member that he would “encourage” Russia to do as it wishes in cases of NATO allies who are “delinquent.”

“‘You didn’t pay? You’re delinquent?’” Trump recounted saying. “‘No I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You gotta pay. You gotta pay your bills.’”

Trump’s remarks caused deep concern in Poland, which was under Russian control in past centuries, and where anxieties are high over the war Russia is waging just across the Polish border in Ukraine.

“We have a hot war at our border," Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said Sunday, voicing concerns about whether the United States will show “full solidarity with other NATO countries in this confrontation that promises to last for a long time with Russia.”

“We must realize that the EU cannot be an economic and civilizational giant and a dwarf when it comes to defense, because the world has changed,” he argued in a town hall speech marking the start of his party’s campaign for local elections this spring.

In 2014, NATO allies pledged to move toward spending 2% of GDP on defense by 2024. According to NATO estimates in early 2023, 10 of its 30 member states at the time were close to or above the 2% mark, while 13 were spending 1.5% or less.

No country is in debt to any other, or to NATO.

Stoltenberg said he expects that, “regardless of who wins the presidential election, the U.S. will remain a strong and committed NATO ally.”

The German government did not officially comment on Trump’s remarks, but its foreign office pointed out NATO's solidarity principle in a statement on X, formerly Twitter.

“‘One for all and all for one.’ This NATO creed keeps more than 950 million people safe," it said.

Trump's comments were of particular concern to NATO's front-line countries, like Poland and the Baltic states of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, which were either under the control of Moscow or fully incorporated into the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Fears there run especially high given Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Polish President Andrzej Duda, who is allied with the right-wing opposition, and who was seen as friendly to Trump during his presidency, tweeted that the Polish-U.S. alliance must be strong “regardless of who is currently in power in Poland and the USA.”

He warned: “Offending half of the American political scene serves neither our economic interests nor Poland’s security.”

In an editorial Sunday, German daily Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung also called for European nations to spend more on defense.

It said that if Trump wins the presidency again, statements like the one he made on Saturday night "will increase the risk of Putin expanding his war. Europeans can only do one thing to counter this: finally invest in their military security in line with the seriousness of the situation.”

Trump’s tenure, which was marked by his open admiration for Russian President Vladimir Putin, became a near-existential challenge for NATO, an organization largely controlled by the United States. The prospect that Trump might return to power remains a deep concern among allies.

Stoltenberg was praised for his diplomatic skills in keeping NATO together during the Trump years, but the former Norwegian prime minister is stepping down. His successor is likely to be announced by the time allied leaders meet in Washington for NATO’s 75th anniversary summit in July.

Under NATO’s mutual defense clause, Article 5 of its founding treaty, all allies commit to help any member who comes under attack. The article has only ever been activated once – by the U.S. in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

NATO has undertaken its biggest military buildup since the Cold War since Russia invaded Ukraine in February 2022.

© Copyright 2024 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without permission.

©2024 GPlusMedia Inc.

204 Comments

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Trump unhinged!

Who are the ones still following / supporting him?

If you are not willing to support NATO members in case of an Article 5, then you are standing with the aggressor! If you are encouraging a (hostile) nation to attack other nations, then you are a traitor! It's about time people understand that Trump is PUTAin's lap-dog! A draft-avoiding, bone-spurs, military-insulting, raping, divider-in-chief, orange con man!

29 ( +40 / -11 )

Surrender Donald only knows appeasement.

19 ( +28 / -9 )

This should come as no shock. I wouldn’t surprised to find Trump’s greedy eyes on Mexico (or even Canada?) if, God forbid, he ever gets back into power. It’s gut-wrenching to think that so many Americans are so insulated that the ramifications of these words of his about Russia won’t even reach their ears, and that it would have no effect on them even if they did.

28 ( +33 / -5 )

Citizen Trump...the most dangerous existential threat to humanity and the world. Of course, he sides with Putin.

24 ( +32 / -8 )

The head of the NATO military alliance warned Sunday that Donald Trump was putting the safety of U.S. troops and their allies at risk after the Republican presidential front-runner said Russia should be able to do "whatever the hell they want" to NATO members who don't meet their defense spending targets.

Biden makes some comments that may show a tenuous grasp of current reality.

Trump: Hold my Adderall. The only one who endangers the future of the Western Alliance is ME.

19 ( +23 / -4 )

A stupid, irresponsible, and dangerous comment.

And his supporters applaud.

21 ( +27 / -6 )

The head of the NATO military alliance warned Sunday that Donald Trump was putting the safety of U.S. troops 

If US troops go back home where they belong they will be perfectly safe.

-23 ( +8 / -31 )

Your periodic reminder that Trump and his supporters don't have the firmest grasp on the same reality the rest of us share. On oldie but a goodie, still relevant, and topical as it is SB Sunday.

https://twitter.com/AginsMichael/status/1756455891866722589

14 ( +19 / -5 )

ThubanToday 06:48 am JST

If US troops go back home where they belong they will be perfectly safe.

The same applies to Putin's conscripts.

24 ( +30 / -6 )

Welp, we can forget all about Biden misspeaking about the president of Mexico now.

It’s irrelevant now that the orange blob himself has come out and confirmed what he has been rumored to have said in private:

He will look for and find any excuse not to uphold our treaty alliances. If it’s not pay, it will be something else.

His (gag) “administration” wouldn’t be reliable. It would make war in Europe (and Asia) more, much more likely because the United States would be seen as unreliable.

He is an idiot and he doesn’t understand the symbiotic benefits of alliances anymore than he understands the symbiotic benefits of trade.

I do not stipulate that Biden is senile.

But if he were, we’d be better off with his 50 years of experience and a cadre of competent advisers to support him than we would with a narcissistic sociopath who’s own by Putin and also is an incompetent moron to boot.

(Oh, and thanks for stealing the news cycle, Don. You are team sanity’s best friend every time you open your mouth.)

19 ( +24 / -5 )

An idiot.

25 ( +34 / -9 )

If US troops go back home where they belong they will be perfectly safe.

Yes and no.

There's not guarantees for military troops wherever they may be.

Can you imagine how trump will attempt to root out all the illegal immigrants and gangs from USA etc

-12 ( +5 / -17 )

There's not guarantees for military troops wherever they may be.

Nor for any of us, for that matter. We all die in the end.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

So what’s Trump up to here?

Trolling the libs? Playing 3D chess? Tough love?

What a stupid comment.

21 ( +25 / -4 )

Can you imagine how trump will attempt to root out all the illegal immigrants and gangs from USA etc

No.

He said he’d do that last time.

21 ( +24 / -3 )

Trump is such a stable genius.

Since everything is transactional what is the price for Taiwan?

14 ( +18 / -4 )

Maybe it’s just locker room talk.

16 ( +19 / -3 )

The problem with American is it about self preservation,the US do not fear Russia,but lots of EU countries are run by people,just like Trump ,who do not believe in liberty,equality and justice for all

-27 ( +1 / -28 )

Probably a good idea for us to get in front of the inevitable Russian-promoted disinfo campaign against Syrskiy.

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1756621050350100528

14 ( +17 / -3 )

And he will sell Taiwan down the river cheap, abandon S. Korea in favor of fat boi and tell China that the Senkaku islands really belong to them because Japan didn’t pay enough.

16 ( +20 / -4 )

"Trump unhinged!

Why?

“Who are the ones still following / supporting him?

Me and 70 million others in the U.S. alone.

If you are not willing to support NATO members in case of an Article 5, then you are standing with the aggressor!

Well, not if you don’t believe in NATO

If you are encouraging a (hostile) nation to attack other nations, then you are a traitor!

Wait, with sooo much anti-American hate globally and even on this site (you know who you are) I’m sure a large portion of Europe wouldn’t care if America was attacked. Give me a break. As an American I have all kinds of vile things said about my country from mostly Europeans, but in the end, they’re just rambling comments, no difference here. But the guy is allowed to say his personal opinion.

It's about time people understand that Trump is PUTAin's lap-dog!

Yeah, Mueller debunked that from front to back, not even remotely close to the truth.

A draft-avoiding, bone-spurs, military-insulting, raping, divider-in-chief, orange con man!

See!! You have your opinion on how you feel about the man and Trump has his as to how he feels about NATO. Relax…

-27 ( +6 / -33 )

And he will sell Taiwan down the river cheap, abandon S. Korea in favor of fat boi and tell China that the Senkaku islands really belong to them because Japan didn’t pay enough.

Naw, he definitely wouldn’t sell Taiwan for sure nor give up South Korea as far as the islands issues are concerned, he probably would stay out of it.

-26 ( +4 / -30 )

Me and 70 million others in the U.S. alone.

70 million not going to be enough to win in November.

15 ( +19 / -4 )

70 million not going to be enough to win in November.

True, the same was said in 2016

-23 ( +5 / -28 )

He keeps saying that NATO memers are "delinquent" in "payments." He knows there is nobody collecting dues from NATO members. That was explained to him by General John Kelly, his Chief of Staff when he was Presidnet of the United States.

So is it his memory? No. He is speaking to Putin.

13 ( +19 / -6 )

Me and 70 million others in the U.S. alone.

In other words, a minority of Americans.

Well, not if you don’t believe in NATO

Most Americans do "believe" in NATO. But you know who doesn't? Trump's rhetoric is a huge win for Putin.

As an American I have all kinds of vile things said about my country from mostly Europeans, but in the end, they’re just rambling comments, no difference here.

As an American, I think most of the vole things said about us are right on the mark when we elect such a vile, stupid fool for president.

But the guy is allowed to say his personal opinion.

And people are allowed to point out how stupid they are.

Yeah, Mueller debunked that from front to back, not even remotely close to the truth.

Mueller did no such thing.

19 ( +23 / -4 )

The US tax payer has provided some $43 Billion plus in military support to Ukraine...

DOD Official Restates Why Supporting Ukraine Is in U.S. Interest

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3671938/dod-official-restates-why-supporting-ukraine-is-in-us-interest/#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20has%20provided,Europe%20and%20the%20United%20States.

European NATO member must rise to the occasion...

In 2014, NATO allies pledged to move toward spending 2% of GDP on defense by 2024. According to NATO estimates in early 2023, 10 of its 30 member states at the time were close to or above the 2% mark, while 13 were spending 1.5% or less.

This is simply not good enough.

Donald Trump must choose his words and tone carefully. Emboldening Putin could provoke an unthinkable confrontation.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

70 million not going to be enough to win in November.

True, the same was said in 2016

They didn't say that in 2016, and if they did, they likely would have been wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election

9 ( +11 / -2 )

bass4funkToday 07:46 am JST

If you are not willing to support NATO members in case of an Article 5, then you are standing with the aggressor!

Well, not if you don’t believe in NATO

So what is your position on NATO? Article 5 doesn't say anything about checking current defense spending levels.

And he will sell Taiwan down the river cheap, abandon S. Korea in favor of fat boi and tell China that the Senkaku islands really belong to them because Japan didn’t pay enough.

Naw, he definitely wouldn’t sell Taiwan for sure nor give up South Korea

How do you know? We used to say collectively that Russia would be resisted but then Trump caved and you caved. How long before the same happens with Taiwan?

11 ( +13 / -2 )

To be fair, is kinda ridiculous that the US had to pay 16% of NATO funds while also contributing troops and supplies to help them defend the borders when US is not even nowhere near that region. Some countries within NATO is not only not pulling their weight, but also intentionally trying to benefit from it.

-14 ( +6 / -20 )

bass4funkToday 07:46 am JST

Wait, with sooo much anti-American hate globally and even on this site (you know who you are) I’m sure a large portion of Europe wouldn’t care if America was attacked.

You do know that pretty much every NATO country lost somebody in the war in Afghanistan due to article 5 being invoked for the US, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_casualties_in_Afghanistan

There is a difference between what internet commentators say and what educated politicians do in most countries.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

HiroToday 07:56 am JST

To be fair, is kinda ridiculous that the US had to pay 16% of NATO funds while also contributing troops and supplies to help them defend the borders when US is not even nowhere near that region. Some countries within NATO is not only not pulling their weight, but also intentionally trying to benefit from it.

A statement so blindly ignoring the difficulty of getting 30 countries to work together that one must assume it was written by someone wanting NATO to fail...

11 ( +15 / -4 )

In other words, a minority of Americans. 

They said that in 2016 as well.

Most Americans do "believe" in NATO. But you know who doesn't? Trump's rhetoric is a huge win for Putin. 

I’m an American, I don’t believe in them. Most people I personally know don’t, I vote.

As an American, I think most of the vole things said about us are right on the mark when we elect such a vile, stupid fool for president. 

Well, and you see how Biden’s numbers continue to slide off the cliff like melted ice cream.

And people are allowed to point out how stupid they are. 

And people are allowed to have them, it’s a free country. I hate NATO with a passion. .

Mueller did no such thing.

He absolutely did

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/mueller-report-conclusions-trump-congress-attorney-general-william-barr-n986611

-20 ( +3 / -23 )

You do know that pretty much every NATO country lost somebody in the war in Afghanistan due to article 5 being invoked for the US, right?

Yes.

There is a difference between what internet commentators say and what educated politicians do in most countries.

Educated politicians??? Seeing how Europe is falling apart you could have fooled me.

-21 ( +4 / -25 )

The most dangerous comment by any ex-president.

16 ( +19 / -3 )

So what is your position on NATO? Article 5 doesn't say anything about checking current defense spending levels.

I just told you what I thought.

How do you know? We used to say collectively that Russia would be resisted but then Trump caved and you caved.

I doubt it because of his history as President previously.

How long before the same happens with Taiwan?

Doubt it will happen.

-15 ( +2 / -17 )

Seeing how Europe is falling apart you could have fooled me.

Europe is only falling apart on RT and Fox News.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

 I hate NATO with a passion.

Did you hate NATO when they helped your country after 9/11?

14 ( +17 / -3 )

The most dangerous comment by any ex-president.

Nonsense

-15 ( +2 / -17 )

The former Insurrectionist-in-Chief has been a threat to U. S. national security for many years. His latest statement concerning NATO confirms he is a Russian asset.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

And people are allowed to have them, it’s a free country. I hate NATO with a passion. .

Odd for an American to have such strong feelings about NATO? Why do you hate NATO with a passion?

14 ( +15 / -1 )

What can I say but "Go Bass 4 Funk ".

Blind loyalty to "the cause "" is such a rare commodity.

Yeah, funny, I remember the NSW Parliament ruled Trump ineligible to bid for Sydney's first casino licence because inter police enquiries found connections to organised crime.

It's on the Parliamentary record for any doubters .

11 ( +13 / -2 )

I’m an American, I don’t believe in them.

I am too, and I support NATO. The only people who don't a Putin stooges.

Most people I personally know don’t, I vote.

And? Lol

Well, and you see how Biden’s numbers continue to slide off the cliff like melted ice cream.

Bizarre, tortures metaphor aside, most Americans support NATO. https://globalaffairs.org/research/public-opinion-survey/support-us-commitment-nato-48-year-high

14 ( +16 / -2 )

bass4funk

The most dangerous comment by any ex-president.

> Nonsense

No sense

13 ( +14 / -1 )

I’m an American, I don’t believe in them.

I am too, and I support NATO. The only people who don't a Putin stooges.

I am an American too, and I also vote. So looks like we are 2-1 on this site so far.

I support NATO.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

It's important to understand that the average American who swallows media talking points has a very simplistic view of the world.

They grew up on Saturday morning cartoons and James Bond movies and they actually believe that Putin is sitting in some chair stroking a cat and planning world domination.

Total nonsense.

Listen to Putin's explanation of why he intervened to stop the Ukrainian civil war.

His answer was 40 minutes long and included 1000 years of history, unfortunately most American liberals simply don't have the attention span to handle such an articulate and nuanced answer.

They prefer a simplistic cartoonish evil villain that they can point the finger at for their 10 minutes of hate.

-14 ( +2 / -16 )

Did you hate NATO when they helped your country after 9/11?

Yup!

I am too, and I support NATO. The only people who don't a Putin stooges. 

I don’t and I disagree.

And? Lol

And nothing, not everyone supports NATO and I could care less what people call me, I’m an American first patriot, period, people don’t like it, oh, well….

Bizarre, tortures metaphor aside, most Americans support NATO.

Good for them. So minus the the millions that don’t and you got a decent numbers or pushback of the people that don’t. Definitely ain’t 3-4 people, so that’s saying something.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article258827923.html

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

Did you hate NATO when they helped your country after 9/11?

Yup!

Why did you hate NATO for helping us after 9/11? Was this reflected in your post comments at this time?

12 ( +13 / -1 )

I am an American too, and I also vote. So looks like we are 2-1 on this site so far.

I support NATO.

You mean 2-2 so far, I don’t support them.

No sense

That my money goes there, true. Not liking it.

-16 ( +1 / -17 )

I'm trying to understand you, Bass4Funk. I am trying to understand why you hold this position that is so clearly outside of mainstream US thought. Are you a US citizen?

11 ( +12 / -1 )

You mean 2-2 so far, I don’t support them.

Who is the other US citizen on this site that doesn't support NATO?

10 ( +11 / -1 )

They grew up on Saturday morning cartoons and James Bond movies and they actually believe that Putin is sitting in some chair stroking a cat and planning world domination

The cat would probably be stroking him given his size.

Listen to Putin's explanation of why he intervened to stop the Ukrainian civil war.

His answer was 40 minutes long and included 1000 years of history, unfortunately most American liberals simply don't have the attention span to handle such an articulate and nuanced answer

I prefer to get my history from serous historians rather than ex-KGB thugs.

Evidently you don’t.

We had another poster deeply enamoured with Putin’s explanation. He/she was under the impression that Yugoslavia broke up into 3 distinct countries.

Very disturbing.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Odd for an American to have such strong feelings about NATO? Why do you hate NATO with a passion?

Not odd, I just think that we should play a lesser role at NATO and let the Europeans play a bigger role, a much bigger and leading role. Not the other way around, they should pay a lot more and we less. And if they want a stronger military, they should buildup their military capabilities and hardware. Have their own military industrial industry.

-15 ( +1 / -16 )

The last time the US fought and protected Europe was during WW2, more than 80 years ago. The US would not reduce its $1 trillion defense budget if it wasn't a NATO member. The number of troops would not be reduced. 800 bases overseas bases costing $25 billion.

Poland's defense spending as a share of GDP was 3.9 percent, the highest of all NATO member states, followed by the United States at 3.49 percent.

16 ( +17 / -1 )

Well, not if you don’t believe in NATO

Ok.

Do you believe Russia should be able to do  "whatever the hell they want" to other countries?

That’s the important issue here.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

Bass - thanks for your response. Why do you think Europe doesn't have a defense industry?

2022

RankSupplierArms Exp

(in million TIV)1

 United States14,5152

 France3,0213

 Russia2,8204

 China2,0175

 Italy1,8256

 Germany1,5107

 United Kingdom1,5048

 Spain9509

 Israel83110

 Poland452

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry

12 ( +14 / -2 )

Certifiably crazy.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

I'm trying to understand you, Bass4Funk. I am trying to understand why you hold this position that is so clearly outside of mainstream US thought. Are you a US citizen?

I am an American first Nationalist and yes, I’m an American citizen to the core.

-17 ( +2 / -19 )

And nothing, not everyone supports NATO and I could care less what people call me, I’m an American first patriot, period, people don’t like it, oh, well….

You call yourself a patriot yet you repeatedly advocate for policies and positions which would reduce the US's standing in the world. That's not patriotism, and will certainly cost the US more in the long run. Shameful how Putin bootlickers have yet to learn history.

Good for them. So minus the the millions that don’t and you got a decent numbers or pushback of the people that don’t. Definitely ain’t 3-4 people, so that’s saying something.

Who cares about the millions of low information beta Trump supporters? Hundreds of millions of Americans support NATO 80% real Americans agree with me.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

--The most dangerous comment by any ex-president.

Nonsense

@bass, what part of encouraging enemies to attack NATO states do you agree with? It's what Trump said.

16 ( +17 / -1 )

Donald Trump is not an intelligent man and only ever has the superficial grasp of anything and that is usually only in a commercial sense.

NATO and all the American military bases around the world are in the USA's strategic interest, the global pax Americana. But Trump can only see things at a mercantile level - if you are paying for something, you are losing and the other person is winning. That's all that matters to him.

To Trump these modest costs are a big deal because he can see (and only see) the financial costs. The benefits that derive from an American led NATO are lost on him.

15 ( +16 / -1 )

The fact that the US punches above it's way above its weight in arms sales shouldn't take away from the fact that European countries, especially the smaller ones, also punch above their weight. Plus, lately they are supporting the Ukrainian refugees much more than we are. Everyone is helping against the Russian menace, Bass.

14 ( +15 / -1 )

I’m an American citizen to the core.

You and I have one thing in common. We may have different nationalities but neither of us live in America.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

How many American troops are in Europe?

100,000 troops. 35,000 in Germany.

There are 2 million troops from other countries.

13 ( +13 / -0 )

You and I have one thing in common. We may have different nationalities but neither of us live in America.

But I’m an American citizen and still hold a passport, and still regularly vote, that’s the difference.

-17 ( +0 / -17 )

Just drop him in Ukraine while Russia's invading. Let him live in the moment of Russia doing whatever they want.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

How many Ukraine refugees are in Europe? 6 million.

The U.S. has admitted 271,000 Ukrainian refugees since the Russian invasion

11 ( +14 / -3 )

bass4funk

I am an American first Nationalist and yes, I’m an American citizen to the core.

How does that work out with your dual German nationality?

15 ( +17 / -2 )

Another interesting chart from that same Wiki page. You can't se the flags, but we should all know these companies. I do take exception to the use of 'profit' in the text, while the companies are sorted by revenue, but you get the idea.

List of major weapon manufacturers[edit]

For a more comprehensive list, see List of modern armament manufacturers and List of defense contractors.

This is a list of the world's largest arms manufacturers and other military service companies who profit the most from the war economy, their origin is shown as well. The information is based on a list published by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute for 2020.[23]

RankCompany nameDefense Revenue

(US$ billions)% of Total Revenue

from Defense1

 Lockheed Martin53.289%2

 Boeing33.544%3

 Northrop Grumman29.286%4

 RTX Corporation25.387%5

 General Dynamics24.562%6

 Aviation Industry Corporation of China22.434%7

 BAE Systems22.295%8

 China Electronics Technology Group15.046%9

 Norinco14.522%10

 L3Harris Technologies13.977%11

 United Technologies (since April 2020 Raytheon Technologies)13.117%12

 Leonardo S.p.A.11.172%13

 Airbus11.014%14

 Thales Group9.446%15

 Almaz-Antey9.498%

11 ( +12 / -1 )

Not sure why any of you think that Russia (or even Russia + China) have a snowball's chance in hell against the combined might of the western defense industry. You don't.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

I'll have the Prime Rib roast 16oz slice with a bottle of your best champagne please. Oh, and by the way, my country is a NATO member so I don't have to pay.

Too funny how the war loving globalists have seduced so many to the Blind Side, us little people have to pay the gas bill, governments just print print print us into third world status.

-17 ( +2 / -19 )

*@bass, what part of encouraging enemies to attackNATO states do you agree with? It's what Trump said.*

I didn’t say that I agree with what he said, I said, he has the right to believe and say whatever he wants, God knows we have to listen to what the left say about him and conservatives or the US, so….

You call yourself a patriot

Yes, sir.

yet you repeatedly advocate for policies and positions which would reduce the US's standing in the world.

Thanks to Biden that is already happening at an alarming rate.

That's not patriotism, and will certainly cost the US more in the long run. Shameful how Putin bootlickers have yet to learn history. 

I am a patriot and you can define me however you wish, you don’t know a thing about me, because in the end, it’s just words and they don’t mean squat. Conduct does. I think it’s shameful that we still have to use our tax money to fund this useless organization.

Who cares about the millions of low information beta Trump supporters?

See, now you get it, and that’s how I and millions other feel about NATO. Who cares? I don’t, and good luck to them.

Hundreds of millions of Americans support NATO 80% real Americans agree with me

And millions of Americans don’t. I’m part of that growing number. Proud of it.

-20 ( +1 / -21 )

There's no military risk in reality, as NATO has sufficient NUKES.

It's all about WHO pays for WHAT. Europe's been freeriding a long time. Trump has always had a hardline about NATO and budgets, nothing new here!

-17 ( +3 / -20 )

I am an American first Nationalist

Yes, we know you're nationalistic, but only on the right hand side of the heart.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

If I don't pay my electricity bill, my electricity gets cut off. NATO members need to pay their fair share or expect to have US back up cut off! You get what you pay for. I notice the left leaning commentators downvoting anything that's not FREE!

-17 ( +2 / -19 )

Russian and Chinese strengths lie elsewhere, I am sure, but not in decentralized, distributed power and decision-making. Russia is also not great at creating broad-based prosperity. The jury is still out on China. I wish them the best.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Well said Mister Trump, well said..

-20 ( +1 / -21 )

Just in this World section of JT...

This article clearly showing Trump inviting his BFF Putin to invade our NATO partners and fellow democracies...

And the GOP (Guardians of Putin) in the US Congress showing their Putin-love by appeasing the dictator and refusing aid to Ukraine...

MAGA-world is Putin's Fifth Column bringing autocracy and cronyism to our shores - bent on destroying our over 200 year old democracy and overthrowing our Constitution...

Just listen to him - Trump has already admitted it...

https://apnews.com/article/social-media-donald-trump-8e6e2f0a092135428c82c0cfa6598444

13 ( +14 / -1 )

Do you believe Russia should be able to do "whatever the hell they want" to other countries?

No, so let the Europeans take the lead on this

That’s the important issue here.

True. We can be the backup.

How does that work out with your dual German nationality?

Nothing, love Germany, but I love America more.

-16 ( +1 / -17 )

Too funny how the war loving globalists have seduced so many to the Blind Side, us little people have to pay the gas bill, governments just print print print us into third world status.

Lol right, because a weakened NATO would make Russian aggression less likely. Reeee

I am a patriot and you can define me however you wish, you don’t know a thing about me, because in the end, it’s just words and they don’t mean squat. Conduct does. I think it’s shameful that we still have to use our tax money to fund this useless organization.

Oh, but I can see your posts. I can see how you repeatedly advocate for positions that are disadvantageous to the US. Anything but patriotic.

See, now you get it, and that’s how I and millions other feel about NATO. Who cares? I don’t, and good luck to them.

Lol

And millions of Americans don’t. I’m part of that growing number. Proud of it.

That's not true. The link I just posted shows even more people support NATO then before.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Trump is not interested in the US NATO Ukraine Proxy war, which he likes to the Dog catching the Truck.

The Donbas is not in US strategic national interests, the border dispute and these newly minted legal Russian citizens that live there do not warrant NATO involvement or expansion eastward. Too risky, no benefit.

Russia poses no threat to NATO given its NUKE deterrence

-15 ( +2 / -17 )

Relax and familiarize yourself with the numbers. NATO members are trending towards 2% (thanks Putin!) and will all get there at some point soon.

If I don't pay my electricity bill, my electricity gets cut off. NATO members need to pay their fair share or expect to have US back up cut off!

https://www.statista.com/chart/14636/defense-expenditures-of-nato-countries/#:~:text=The%20concept%20that%20NATO%20countries,towards%22%20or%20beyond%20this%20goal.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

“‘You didn’t pay? You’re delinquent?’” Trump recounted saying. “‘No I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You gotta pay. You gotta pay your bills.’”

Unfortunately, Trump does not understand how NATO works. Like most of foreign affairs, Trump has no knowledge or experience.

Luckily he can’t pull the US out of NATO if he became president.

However, by signaling that he wouldn’t invoke article 5, is very dangerous for Europe.

In the end remarks like this will ensure that he doesn’t get support from independents.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

I didn’t say that I agree with what he said, I said, he has the right to believe and say whatever he wants

So do you disagree with what he said? Was it wrong?

10 ( +11 / -1 )

NATO countries do not "pay". In 2014 it agreed to spend 2% of the GDP on defense by 2024. Out of about 30 countries, only about 13 have achieved the target.

The US is the biggest seller of weapons to other NATO countries.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/248552/us-arms-exports-by-country/

13 ( +14 / -1 )

MAGA-world is Putin's Fifth Column bringing autocracy and cronyism to our shores - bent on destroying our over 200 year old democracy and overthrowing our Constitution...

Good luck with that MAGA/Russia! Just don't cry as the consequence arrive, un-lubed as they are wont to do :)

9 ( +10 / -1 )

ETHAN1001

If I don't pay my electricity bill, my electricity gets cut off. NATO members need to pay their fair share or expect to have US back up cut off! You get what you pay for. I notice the left leaning commentators downvoting anything that's not FREE!

That’s not how it works. There is no obligation to increase military spending in return for support. It’s a guideline only. In any case, European nations have increased spending.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Oh, but I can see your posts.

Yeah, my posts, but you don’t can’t define me. I could walk past you and you wouldn’t know who I was.

I can see how you repeatedly advocate for positions that are disadvantageous to the US. Anything but patriotic. 

Quite the opposite.

That's not true. The link I just posted shows even more people support NATO then before.

True. And the link it posted shows a growing number oppose it.

-16 ( +1 / -17 )

Destabilizing entire world over the Donbas utterly crazy in Trump's view. Ukraine's civil war started in 2014, remained regional issue during Trump's Presidency.

Ukraine Civil war massively escalated ONLY due to Biden's POLICY changes, turning Ukraine into NATO proxy war partner, arming, training, etc. Forcing Russia to escalate their involvement and here we are, chaos and damage now global and spreading rapidly.

-18 ( +2 / -20 )

And millions of Americans don’t. I’m part of that growing number. Proud of it.

It's ok to hold a minority position on an issue in a democracy. We respect that. But you also have to respect the majority opinion on issues if you want the same respect.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

So do you disagree with what he said? Was it wrong?

I already answered that.

It's ok to hold a minority position on an issue in a democracy.

That’s growing, of course and I agree.

We respect that.

Yours as well.

But you also have to respect the majority opinion on issues if you want the same respect.

As you have to respect the growing pushback of the minority voices that are getting louder and louder.

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

Most of the $1 trillion US defense budget is spent within the US. Not in Europe or the 800 overseas bases.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

How does that work out with your dual German nationality?

> Nothing, love Germany, but I love America more.

But unwilling to defend Germany.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

Seems both NATO and Biden Presidency are in utter chaos, hardly a winning strategy.

Time to turn page on US NATO back eastward expansion, decades long global destabilization campaign of endless wars that have utterly failed, producing ZERO new US 'satellite/puppet' democracies.

-16 ( +0 / -16 )

But unwilling to defend Germany.

Not over America, no….

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

Canada's defense budget amounted to just 1.22% of its GDP in 2022. Trump would not defend Canada.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

bass4funk

But unwilling to defend Germany.

> Not over America, no….

That is not what I asked. If Germany was attacked would you defend it?

11 ( +13 / -2 )

Canada's defense budget amounted to just 1.22% of its GDP in 2022. Trump would not defend Canada.

Is that a bad thing? Justin has a somewhat decent military I guess.

-17 ( +0 / -17 )

bass4funk

Canada's defense budget amounted to just 1.22% of its GDP in 2022. Trump would not defend Canada.

> Is that a bad thing? Justin has a somewhat decent military I guess.

Shared border. Canada is the US's biggest trading partner.

14 ( +16 / -2 )

That is not what I asked. If Germany was attacked would you defend it?

Limited, as a backup supporting group

-13 ( +1 / -14 )

Trump is 100% right about the U.N and NATO. This is nothing new especially if you’ve actually listened to him speak about these countries not paying their fair share.

The Trump MAGA keyboard warriors are all experts on the budgets of NATO, and now apparently the UN (something the US want paying it fair share to Under Donald Trump).

NATO exists primarily as an extension of US military power to protect its vision of the world. There is an agreement that each country will spend about 2% or more of its budget on defence and if they don't currently, increase spending to this level.

But the fact that since countries spend less than this didn't mean that the US is spending more. The UK and France spend 2% or more. France is at 1.5%, but that still buys a large operationally effective army.

Which parts of the US military world be cut if France upped their military spending? None.

13 ( +13 / -0 )

bass4funkToday 08:05 am JST

So what is your position on NATO? Article 5 doesn't say anything about checking current defense spending levels.

I just told you what I thought.

Not very clearly at the time of my question. Makes a lot of sense that you have gone full surrender on Europe, though.

How do you know? We used to say collectively that Russia would be resisted but then Trump caved and you caved.

I doubt it because of his history as President previously.

The history of doing what, a wimpy a** tariff regime on China?

How long before the same happens with Taiwan?

Doubt it will happen.

We used to find it unthinkable that an American not being paid by Russia would simp for them so faithfully, but now we have the MAGA example to prove that without the proper education every level of moral failing is possible.

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Not over America, no….

Remember Trump people: NATO was there for us on 9/11.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

Those who meet their defense spending targets would have nothing to be concerned about. Simple.

-15 ( +2 / -17 )

What Trump means is that Europe needs to buy more American weapons.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

Shared border. Canada is the US's biggest trading partner.

Oh, now all of a sudden, Canada is our friend? Lol, too funny…

Not very clearly at the time of my question. Makes a lot of sense that you have gone full surrender on Europe, though.

If you think so, ok

The history of doing what, a wimpy a** tariff regime on China?

You need to start somewhere.

We used to find it unthinkable that an American not being paid by Russia would simp for them so faithfully, but now we have the MAGA example to prove that without the proper education every level of moral failing is possible.

Uhh, trying to hurl baseless and childish insults won’t change or alter our thinking and feeling and growing discontent of supporting NATO, like the classic song from Missing Persons “what are words for, when no one listens anymore”

-15 ( +1 / -16 )

surrender

on brand!

the USA paid most of Ukraine so we now have to pay for those who don’t make their NATO targets too?

-20 ( +0 / -20 )

Russia is very close to Canada.

15 ( +15 / -0 )

bass4funk

Shared border. Canada is the US's biggest trading partner.

> Oh, now all of a sudden, Canada is our friend? Lol, too funny…

Canada and Mexico are America's biggest trading partners.

America would go to their aid if they were attacked.

15 ( +15 / -0 )

Those who meet their defense spending targets would have nothing to be concerned about. Simple.

What are you talking about? Trump threatening to let Russia do whatever it wants undercuts the whole idea of collective defense.

14 ( +14 / -0 )

Canada and Mexico are America's biggest trading partners.

America would go to their aid if they were attacked.

If they were attacked, that’s a big hypocritical “if”

-14 ( +0 / -14 )

I’m certain that most of the Maga loons who are suddenly anti NATO hadn’t given it a single thought until recently. If 45 says he doesn’t like something there are a bunch of folk who will agree and say they’ve never liked it (after first Googling what it is).

10 ( +11 / -1 )

What are you talking about?

“….said Russia should be able to do "whatever the hell they want" to NATO members who don't meet their defense spending targets.”

so meet your targets?

-16 ( +1 / -17 )

Blacklabel

surrender

> on brand!

> the USA paid most of Ukraine so we now have to pay for those who don’t make their NATO targets too?

You do not understand how NATO works. The US does not spend more on defense because some NATO are not spending 2% of their GDP.

The US defense budget is set by the US and most of the $1 trillion is spent within America.

17 ( +17 / -0 )

the USA paid most of Ukraine so we now have to pay for those who don’t make their NATO targets too?

The US isn't paying for those who don't meet their spending targets. Don't be absurd.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

“collective defense” would mean collective financial contributions no?

or is every county a U.S. charity now?

-17 ( +2 / -19 )

I’m certain that most of the Maga loons who are suddenly anti NATO hadn’t given it a single thought until recently. If 45 says he doesn’t like something there are a bunch of folk who will agree and say they’ve never liked it (after first Googling what it is).

No, I felt like that for years, it’s just that we had globalist politicians in the past that would comply and give in to the demands of Europe. Thankfully, more and more people are resenting this and want us to give less aid to a continent that is fully capable of thwarting any adversary

-16 ( +1 / -17 )

Blacklabel

“collective defense” would mean collective financial contributions no?

> or is every county a U.S. charity now?

Can you explain how you think that works? Poland spends more of its GDP on defense than the US.

The US does not pay anything to any other NATO country.

17 ( +18 / -1 )

so meet your targets?

Right, but I don't believe anything a liar like Trump says. No smart person should.

collective defense” would mean collective financial contributions no?

No. That's not correct.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

Stalin called Western left-wing sympathisers of the USSR "useful idiots".

The leader of Russia today has plenty of useful idiots - chief among them, Donald Trump. And closely followed by all his MAGA fans.

13 ( +13 / -0 )

According to the U.S. Congressional Budget Office, the outlays for defense will rise from 746 billion U.S. dollars in 2022 to 1.1 trillion U.S. dollars by 2033. The largest parts of the budget are dedicated to the Departments of the Navy and the Air Force.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

The leader of Russia today has plenty of useful idiots - chief among them, Donald Trump. And closely followed by all his MAGA fans

I feel the same about the left and their support for these mindless wars, they’re the useful idiots these globalists for the military industrial industry.

-18 ( +0 / -18 )

Can we just have a president who won't start wars, isn't frail and senile, doesn't promote ideas that confuse and divide the country, one with a backbone and a moral compass? Is it too much to ask?

-14 ( +0 / -14 )

""The head of the NATO military alliance warned Sunday that Donald Trump was putting the safety of U.S. troops and their allies at risk after the Republican presidential front-runner said Russia should be able to do "whatever the hell they want" to NATO members who don't meet their defense spending targets.""

This is how Mr. Trump talks, his style is well known by now.

We can all agree that nations that are LEECHING off NATO should be in some way discipline to pay their share.

-15 ( +0 / -15 )

Citizen Trump says, "he would “encourage” Russia to do as it wishes".

So besides being only truly pro-"himself", he is a "Putinist".

He also said, " You gotta pay. You gotta pay your bills."

That's rich.

14 ( +14 / -0 )

so meet your targets?

Poland meets and well exceeds their targets, so you would agree to defend Poland if Russia attacks it?

11 ( +11 / -0 )

military industrial industry.

Deep MII

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Citizen Trump says, "he would “encourage” Russia to do as it wishes".

So besides being only truly pro-"himself", he is a "Putinist".

He also said, " You gotta pay. You gotta pay your bills."

That's rich.

True, walk and chew gum at the same time.

-15 ( +1 / -16 )

Poland spends more of its GDP on defense than the US.

then he’s not taking to Poland if they meeting the spending targets.

the next president just giving NATO a heads up on how it’s gonna be so they can get it in next year budget.

-16 ( +1 / -17 )

the next president just giving NATO a heads up on how it’s gonna be so they can get it in next year budget.

Are you predicting Trump to win in November?

8 ( +8 / -0 )

The US makes more profit from selling weapons to Europe than the cost of having a military presence there.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

then he’s not taking to Poland if they meeting the spending targets.

Lol Trump doesn't even know how NATO works. Who knows what he's talking about? Maga geniuses certainly don't.

the next president just giving NATO

Lol wishful thinking.

Do as I say and not as do.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

I feel the same about the left and their support for these mindless wars

And yet you are here supporting a man who is encouraging war. Supporting a man who doesn't pay bills to make others pay bills that they are already paying. MAGA is a hot, confused mess today.

"In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want."

10 ( +11 / -1 )

Trump has no knowledge or understanding of the Articles of NATO and the agreement signed by the US.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

Yea, Trump is obviously the next President. So NATO can listen now or listen later.

-15 ( +2 / -17 )

Trump has a role model someone who does not pay his bills and declares bankruptcy six times.

12 ( +13 / -1 )

Yea, Trump is obviously the next President.

Lol keep dreaming.

So NATO can listen now or listen later.

Yes, listen to the moron who doesn't understand how NATO works or else. Reeeee

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Are you predicting Trump to win in November?

Yes, high possibility.

Trump has no knowledge or understanding of the Articles of NATO and the agreement signed by the US.

Doesn’t need to, he’s a President of the U.S., not the world.

And yet you are here supporting a man who is encouraging war.

No, I want Biden out of Europe!

Supporting a man who doesn't pay bills to make others pay bills that they are already paying. MAGA is a hot, confused mess today. 

Yeah, I’m just not going to even listen to the lefts failed rant on that one. lol

"In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want."

If he feels so, hey….

Lol keep dreaming. 

We heard that in 2016 as well.

-15 ( +1 / -16 )

Trump decides “how NATO works”. Sorry for your loss.

-17 ( +1 / -18 )

Trump (besides being a habitual criminal) is a quack.

Biden is not.

That’s the difference.

10 ( +12 / -2 )

Trump decides “how NATO works”. Sorry for your loss.

No he doesn't. Sorry for your loss. Reeeee

11 ( +12 / -1 )

Yea, Trump is obviously the next President.

Of the Leavenworth Prisoner Book Club...where he can write "The Art of Picking the Best Cell Mate"...

So NATO can listen now or listen later.

Given 91 felony charges, MUCH LATER....ROFL...

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Yea, Trump is obviously the next President. So NATO can listen now or listen later.

And if your prediction is incorrect?

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Blacklabel

Trump decides “how NATO works”. Sorry for your loss.

The Treaty and Articles of NATO decide how it works, not Trump.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

if he doesn’t then why is there an entire article how he said it’s gonna be?

Wouldnt matter what he said if he has non influence to make it happen.

-17 ( +0 / -17 )

Have you thought about that?

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Of the Leavenworth Prisoner Book Club...where he can write "The Art of Picking the Best Cell Mate"...

Will never happen.

-14 ( +2 / -16 )

Wouldnt matter what he said if he has non influence to make it happen.

"Influence" is different than "decides." It's no small surprise this would confuse you, since you dont understand mutual defense does not mean mutual funding.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

Trump as president would not have the authority to pull the US out of NATO.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

I have not. But not like Biden stopped anything. so Trump and paying up to their targets is their only hope.

-18 ( +1 / -19 )

A Trump rally rant is nothing more than a show to stir his falling MAGA base.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Trump's brilliant remarks is the only thing I agree. NATO should not continue existing !

-16 ( +0 / -16 )

[ Speaking Saturday at a rally in Conway, South Carolina, Trump recalled how as president he told an unidentified NATO member that he would “encourage” Russia to do as it wishes in cases of NATO allies who are “delinquent.”

“‘You didn’t pay? You’re delinquent?’” Trump recounted saying. “‘No I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want. You gotta pay. You gotta pay your bills.’” ]

Well, as usual, the meaning behind Trump’s words is being distorted by the press (but he makes it easy to criticize his stupid commentshe doesn’t care if he sounds presidential or not but)—only a fool would think that Trump, or any other American President would let the Russians do “whatever the hll they want” with an ally of the US,

but(!)

and this is important:, the way the US looks at “ NATO's front-line countries, like Poland and the Baltic states of Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia … “ aka Eastern Europe is a little bit different…; but

Trump needs to be aware of the importance of Article 5(!);

“‘One for all and all for one.’ This NATO creed keeps more than 950 million people safe," it said.

Under NATO’s mutual defense clause, Article 5 of its founding treaty, all allies commit to help any member who comes under attack. The article has only ever been activated once – by the U.S. in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

They will pay up after hearing that. Trump knows how to get results. And his impersonation of Joe Biden is hilarious -- you won't see it on CNN of course.

-14 ( +4 / -18 )

I'm no Trump fan but this stinks of media induced outrage.

-11 ( +4 / -15 )

Trump knows how to get results

Yes like, multiple bankruptcies.

83 million dollar defamation settlements.

250+ million civil fraud rulings.

He certainly knows how to get results. Lol

14 ( +17 / -3 )

Obama-Biden=Russia invaded Crimea

Trump=Russia obeys The Don

Biden-Harris=Russia invades Ukraine

It's nice to see the benefits of Russian Collusion.

-17 ( +3 / -20 )

This statement is disqualifying and every sentient being not in the cult will recognize it as such.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

BlacklabelToday 09:16 am JST

surrender

on brand!

No other way to describe it. Better to show the MAGA what he will be called for the rest of his life now than to wait until later.

the USA paid most of Ukraine so we now have to pay for those who don’t make their NATO targets too?

As others have stated, the US isn't paying anybody but itself.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

There’s no way to “spin” this as anything other than a knife in the back of the Western Democracies in the service of a fascist thug.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

MAGAs now think they know better than 75 years of western foreign policy experts. The height of hubris, really.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

The height of hubris, really.

Proverbs 16:18

6 ( +6 / -0 )

The rest of NATO is severely dysfunctional. Trump wants a reset on this clown car and rightly so. Members are meant to kick in 2% and they are not even close. Calling them out on this is a no-brainer.

-9 ( +0 / -9 )

The irony is excruciating. The delinquent, doesn’t pay his legal expenses, rips off anyone he can. So dumb. America, if you re-elect this evil circus clown again, you deserve him.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

As others have stated, the US isn't paying anybody but itself.

200 billion to Ukraine says differently.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

if you re-elect this evil circus clown again, you deserve him.

No argument here.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Members are meant to kick in 2% and they are not even close. 

If Biden can get everyone to get to 2.5 or 3%, then would you give him credit?

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Blacklabel - thanks for allowing me the opportunity to share with this group a pretty good, recent run-down on aid to Ukraine. You set 'em up, and I'll knock 'em down!

https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts#:~:text=Much%20of%20the%20aid%20has,the%20world's%20most%20powerful%20militaries.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

JJEToday 01:02 pm JST

The rest of NATO is severely dysfunctional. Trump wants a reset on this clown car and rightly so. Members are meant to kick in 2% and they are not even close. Calling them out on this is a no-brainer.

Cutting through the disinformation, we can see that most of the countries are at or above 1.5 and all but one are above 1%

https://www.statista.com/chart/14636/defense-expenditures-of-nato-countries/

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Even if member countries don't pay the full 2%, why would encourage Russia to attack them? What an idiotic thing to say.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Trump can’t even pay bills he actually owes.

Pretty rich of him to moan, but as he’s a moron, he didn’t think before he opened his fat yap.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

BlacklabelToday 01:03 pm JST

As others have stated, the US isn't paying anybody but itself.

200 billion to Ukraine says differently.

And at least half of that went to US jobs but we aren't talking about Ukraine except in the context of where your reckless isolationism will leave the US.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Bottom line though for those among us who need to hear things multiple times - not Biden, nor Trump, nor future President Post Malone can remove the US from NATO. Only Congress can.

Let me know if you need it explained another way.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Putin has suggested that a direct NATO attack would elicit a nuclear response.

NATO already has a similar deterrent policy in place that would lead to a nuclear response.

Would France and the UK not defend a NATO ally?

Why should the US defend Europe in the age of nuclear weaponry?

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

Even if member countries don't pay the full 2%, why would encourage Russia to attack them? What an idiotic thing to say.

to force them to pay the 2% they supposed to pay.

why pay health insurance if the hospital lets you come for free anyway when you are sick?

-10 ( +1 / -11 )

all those countries need to pay their 2%. We can see asking nicely isn’t working.

so you choose not to pay, you don’t get the benefits paying countries get.

Why are the other countries paying then if you can get benefits for free?!

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

HopeSpringsEternalToday 08:41 am JST

Trump is not interested in the US NATO Ukraine Proxy war, which he likes to the Dog catching the Truck.

Still Putin's War but I like the analogy of Trump to a dog.

The Donbas is not in US strategic national interests, the border dispute and these newly minted legal Russian citizens that live there do not warrant NATO involvement or expansion eastward. Too risky, no benefit.

Draining the strength of a fascist enemy is in everyone's interest.

Russia poses no threat to NATO given its NUKE deterrence

NATO has small countries and Russia is expert at using it's little green men to provide a domestic camouflage.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

to force them to pay the 2% they supposed to pay.

Trump couldn't force anyone, nor could he pull us out of NATO in the unlikely event he wins in November. So, in other words, he is just flapping his gums for the free press.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

BlacklabelToday 01:16 pm JST

why pay health insurance if the hospital lets you come for free anyway when you are sick?

They do let you in the emergency room because it is civilized.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

So you are ok with non paying countries getting full benefits and the USA just paying for all the rest?

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

kurisupisuToday 01:16 pm JST

Why should the US defend Europe in the age of nuclear weaponry?

There is a lot of damage an unhinged madman like Putin can do, including creating another "civil war" in the Baltics.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

BlacklabelToday 01:21 pm JST

So you are ok with non paying countries getting full benefits and the USA just paying for all the rest?

Most are paying something. I'd honestly rather the US have the strength to go it alone and Europe provide the bases.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

So you are ok with non paying countries getting full benefits and the USA just paying for all the rest?

We aren't 'paying for all the rest'. Our defense spending has benefits for us other than as it relates to NATO. You know this.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

And as a veteran, you definitely know this. Please stop being disingenuous.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Most are paying attention something.

is that the agreement, pay “something”?

can the US also pay “something”?

if you remove the US contribution all the rest of NATO is less than 2% combined.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

all those countries need to pay their 2%. We can see asking nicely isn’t working.

So you encourage Putin to attack them? What an absurd thing to say. These are mov shakedown tactics.

Rightists don't even understand what the 2% threshold even means.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

We aren't 'paying for all the rest'.

we have to pay 16% of the total NATO operating budget which increases when countries don’t pay their share.

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

Blacklabel - if you want to talk about reducing US defense spending, that's another conversation altogether. Are you satisfied with our current level of defense spending? Or do you think it is too much?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Canada especially pays a pathetic amount considering their perceived importance.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

I’m talking about NATO spending.

our defense spending for Ourselves is fine, until we start giving it away to foreign countries unwilling to pay for their own defense.

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

Blacklabel - how do you calculate a nation's % contribution?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

our defense spending for Ourselves is fine, until we start giving it away to foreign countries unwilling to pay for their own defense.

No NATO member is giving anything away to another country as part of NATO spending.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

we have to pay 16% of the total NATO operating budget which increases when countries don’t pay their share.

Lol now you're bringing up something else to whine about. The NATO budget is separate, and much, much smaller than the 2% target. The common budget 3.3 billion dollars. less whining, more facts please.

https://usafacts.org/articles/what-is-nato-and-what-does-it-cost-to-be-a-member/

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I just want to make sure we are talking about the same thing and speaking the same language here. Too much can be made of simple misunderstandings, so let's rule that out as a possibility.

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Rightists don't even understand what the 2% threshold even means.

it means 2%. Of your GDP. For you own contributions towards your own defense as part of the larger group.

19 countries don’t pay it but expect protection anyway.

how? Why? Is this ok? Why?

-12 ( +0 / -12 )

No NATO member is giving anything away to another country as part of NATO spending.

If Canada expected to provide 100 tanks as their contribution but only really pay for 60 where do the other 40 come from?

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It seems Trump is correct yet again. A large portion of NATO is delinquent on their bills. Biden has done nothing about it as per usual. Interesting they don't name and shame the countries here.

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Canada expected to provide 100 tanks as their contribution but only really pay for 60 where do the other 40 come from?

That's again not how the 2% works.

No country is called on to give a certain mount of tanks to NATO

Less whining, more facts.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

A Trump rally rant is nothing more than a show to stir his falling MAGA base.

On the contrary actually.

Trump can’t even pay bills he actually owes. 

He is, if he didn’t, he’d probably be in jail by now.

Pretty rich of him to moan,

Because he can and the left can’t do anything but take it.

but as he’s a moron, he didn’t think before he opened his fat yap.

Dunno, seems like the moronic people are the ones that continue to fail and stop this guy.

-13 ( +0 / -13 )

Blacklabel - it seems you do understand, though some of your posts about the subject can be hard to interpret. Let your good writing style shine through!

Is your position that the 2% threshold should be binding? Because if so, then you and I may have found some common ground, sir!

7 ( +8 / -1 )

we have to pay 16% of the total NATO operating budget

Correct, about $60 million, as agreed upon in advance based on the US' GDP.

which increases when countries don’t pay their share.

That is incorrect.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

If Italy contribution is expected to pay the utilities for all the worldwide offices and it’s not enough, who pays? Do they turn off the lights? No, someone else (mostly good ole dependable USA) has to pay.

-14 ( +1 / -15 )

If Italy contribution is expected to pay the utilities for all the worldwide offices and it’s not enough, who pays?

That's not how it works. The 2% spending means 2% of the GDP spent on your own military. Not "paying utilities" worldwide. Lol Again, less whining, more facts.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

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