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Navy divers begin pulling up Chinese spy balloon debris

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If you have citizens spotting it and calling it in ....

..it's not much of a spy balloon, is it?

Spies are supposed to be secretive and clandestine, not hanging about in full view, big and white and luminous in the sky.

A bit like Commander Bond walking around with a neon sign over his head saying 'friendly neighbourhood spy, stop me for a chat and exchange of vital military secrets'.

Either the Chinese are incredibly bad at the clandestine undercover stuff, or the Yanks let their chain be yanked by a weather balloon.

Or maybe the Chinese put the big bright white balloon there as a distraction, while they were doing something clandestine and undercover elsewhere where the Americans weren't thinking to look, because - Oh look, a balloon!?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Last week, similar Chinese balloons were seen over Costa Rica and Columbia too. China has a balloon problem that they need to solve.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

RKL

how does one shoot down an undetected balloon and should one wait until the target is located and over a safe area before trying?

As it has been posted many times, the balloon wasn't detected by the NORAD system. So then what? Suggestions on a postcard to the Pentagon.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

So we are back to the question as to why the US did not shoot it down in the waters off Alaska, before it floated 3000 miles over the US taking pictures of our military installations and missile silos.

The excuse about worrying about civilian causalities is a huge farce. No one is buying it.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Desert TortoiseToday  11:45 am JST

How so? If it is over international waters there is no legal justification to shoot it down. In all likelihood it stayed over international waters until crossing the Canadian coastline. It came over the US from Canada so maybe vent your spleen on the Canadians.

No, it could have been shot within 12 miles off the coast of Alaska.

The balloon entered the US Air Defense Identification Zone near the Aleutians.

So we are back to the question as to why the US did not shoot it down in the waters off Alaska, before it floated 3000 miles over the US taking pictures of our military installations and missile silos.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Btw, I think low speed is how the Ukrainians have been able to sneak those TB-2 drones past Russian S400 batteries, for the reasons I have mentioned. We used to spend a lot of time working with ships to provide their radar operators a low slow target to track. It is was not the kind of target many of those radars were designed for. Back then our fear was a suicide pilot flying a small Cessna loaded with explosives hitting one of our ships in the Persian Gulf during the Tanker War. Slow fliers are not the easiest target set to track believe it or not, and especially so if you are not constantly training for that kind of target.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Were the slow moving helicopters traveling for several days across 3,000 miles of enemy territory?

One of the features of these filters is they rely on target speed, not size or altitude. A target traveling across 3000 miles will be tracked by many radars in succession. But if their filters are set to ignore targets below a certain speed they won't show the target on the operators PPI.

Air traffic control radars only scan in azimuth. They have no height finding capability. That is why aircraft have to have an altitude encoding transponder to tell the ATC radar operator the aircraft's altitude. Every time the radar scans the aircraft it interrogates the transponder, which replies with the four digit code that identifies your particular flight and it transmits the aircrafts pressure altitude from the altimeter. Without the transponder inputs you could be at 10,000 feet or 100,000 feet and an air traffic control radar would not know the difference. A military radar would but again, if the filter is set below the speed of the balloon it will filter out the return.

But as I said, if the military operator reduced the speed threshold to that of the balloon then all kinds of other stuff would clutter the screen. Just the nature of radar.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

RKL - none that I know of. What is your point?

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Jack Northrop was testing a flying wing prototype, the N-1M in 1940 and by 1946 had the six engine XB-35 flying in a competitive fly off against the much larger Convair XB-36. The Horten Brothers achieved one powered flight before General Patton captured their aircraft to keep it out of Soviet hands. Their design, like Northrop's, is inherently less radar reflective but there was no deliberate low observable technology applied to either design. Jack Northop was there first in terms of a working flying wing.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

UChosePoorlyToday  11:00 am JST

Awa - not a balloon or radar expert, but flocks/swarms of birds, bats, and insects in North America can get a whole lot bigger than any balloon.

Are you a bird, bat or insect expert?

Just wondering what type of insects fly in flocks at 60,000 feet for 3,000 miles.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Do you have any technical suggestions on how the locating and tracking of slow-moving high-altitude balloons could be improved?

No, but I do know that a basic certain amount has to be shared with the public. Transparency is the key this administration has a lot of catching up to do on that front.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Desert TortoiseToday  11:13 am JST

Btw, as a former military helicopter pilot slow flight was one of the tactics we used to avoid detection by high flying enemy fighters and certain air defense radars. You play with their Kalman filtering. If they set the speed threshold low enough to detect you they end up with a screen full of clutter.

Were those slow moving helicopters taking pictures?

Were they flying at 60,000 feet (I assume you were flying below 10,000 feet, but not higher than 25,000ft).

Were the slow moving helicopters traveling for several days across 3,000 miles of enemy territory?

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Petr Ufimtsev developed the mathematical models of radar reflectivity that underlie early stealth, but he did not come up with the idea of using those equations to create stealthy aircraft. Lockheed Martin is the firm that had the material science and saw the implications in those equations to create low observable aircraft.

Much of modern stealth now relies on active cancellation technologies that require high computing power on the aircraft and a detailed knowledge of adversary wave forms. It is very different from the reliance on shapes and materials of first generation stealth.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

DT - Thank you as always, not just for your experience, expertise, and ability to talk to laymen, but also for your patience in dealing with the Dunning-Kruger squad here. Remarkable, really.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

That's a pathetic and ridiculous excuse because the balloon was 100ft tall.

It is called Kalman filtering and is a common feature of air defense and air traffic control radars to filter out noise from the return. Otherwise leaves rustling in trees, birds, cars, wind turbines and all kinds of extraneous returns would clutter the screen and hide what you are looking for, namely aircraft.

Btw, as a former military helicopter pilot slow flight was one of the tactics we used to avoid detection by high flying enemy fighters and certain air defense radars. You play with their Kalman filtering. If they set the speed threshold low enough to detect you they end up with a screen full of clutter.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

wallaceToday  10:37 am JST

NORAD has difficulties tracking slow-moving objects like balloons. It did not pick up this balloon so a failure of the system might be improved. Suggestions on that.

Yet it tracked and monitored the balloon over the continental US. So, which is it? NORAD has difficulties tracking slow-moving objects or it is able to track them?

Awa no GaijinToday  10:49 am JST

Their radars deliberately ignore, or filter, slow moving object otherwise their screens would be filled with birds 

That's a pathetic and ridiculous excuse because the balloon was 100ft tall.

Exactly.

It is plain outrageous that this CCP directed balloon entered US airspace, flew over military installations and nuclear missile silos, and took thousands of photos and videos all the while the US president let this happen.

Anyone out there thinking of voting for Biden based on this gaffe?

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Awa - not a balloon or radar expert, but flocks/swarms of birds, bats, and insects in North America can get a whole lot bigger than any balloon.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

so the probability that the unnamed "senior defense official" is making this all up is getting higher and higher. as we find out no one has ever heard this before and none of our systems have the ability to to detect it.

So its disingenuous by now to try to deflect to Trump if he didnt know, no one around him knew and no one even had a way TO know?

Biden on the other hand, knew for 10 days and watched it float by.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Readers, please stop trying to turn this into a Trump vs Biden debate. Any such posts will be removed.

agreed. Still, it went undetected.

So, apparently do the ones the US launches ....

1 ( +3 / -2 )

DT

agreed. Still, it went undetected.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

NORAD has difficulties tracking slow-moving objects like balloons. It did not pick up this balloon so a failure of the system might be improved. Suggestions on that.

It is not a failure as you state. Read my post above. Their radars deliberately ignore, or filter, slow moving object otherwise their screens would be filled with birds and Cessnas they are not interested in. NORAD is interested in enemy aircraft and missiles.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The look down/shoot down doppler radars on most fighters have similar filters so the radars don't lock cars or trucks on highways but only track fast movers like an enemy jet.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

RKL

NORAD has difficulties tracking slow-moving objects like balloons. It did not pick up this balloon so a failure of the system might be improved. Suggestions on that.

This is a critical issue that affects every American.

Are you American and if so do you live there?

There are many Americans who know nothing about NORAD.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

No radar techs here apparently. Most air defense and air traffic control radars have filters the operator uses to ignore slow moving objects like birds otherwise the screen would be filled with extraneous clutter that might hide a faster moving airplane or missile, but those same filters also hide slow moving balloons.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

wallaceToday  10:20 am JST

Do you have any technical suggestions on how the locating and tracking of slow-moving high-altitude balloons could be improved?

Of course. Any American knows the purpose and function of NORAD.

Next time, maybe pay attention, instead of watching US financial and military resources head off to Ukraine.

This is a critical issue that affects every American.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

bass4funk

   Slow-moving balloons at very high altitudes are very difficult to detect and track.

> If you have citizens spotting it and calling it in before the government and the media finds out about and then the pentagon has to reluctantly admit what it is, that’s beyond bad optics wise, not to mention the political fallout.

Do you have any technical suggestions on how the locating and tracking of slow-moving high-altitude balloons could be improved?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

If they had shot it down over land, images could have been released to the general public leading them to realize that it was just a simple weather balloon. Having shot it down over water, they can now spin it as they like.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

The issue is violating another country's airspace - the US has every right to complain and shoot down the balloon (just like in 1960 the Soviets had every right to complain and shoot down the US U2 spy plane flying over Soviet airspace)

The official USAF history of the SR-71 claims more than 4,000 surface to air missiles have been shot at Blackbirds over the years with no hits. They had some early stealth features like faceting that is visible in the skin of the chines and leading edges of the wings and they had jammers but from reading pilot accounts of their missions the most usable way to avoid SAMs was the plane's ability to accelerate increasing speed 100 knots per second. But the salient fact is that those SR-71s were flagrantly violating some other nation's airspace.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

so this narrative that Trump and everyone around him knew at the time or should have known and its his fault and he did nothing about he was owned by the CCP is in your opinion.....false?

That is my understanding at this point. Early in the Biden administration a balloon from China either flew over a part of the southwest and out into the Gulf of Mexico or skirted the US to the south. Somehow, and nobody is being real specific, after the fact evidence was developed that the balloon was a Chinese intel balloon. That incident prompted some kind of research and it was determined there were at least three other earlier balloon flights that went over part of the US or skirted the Gulf Coast.

Then the Chinese got effing arrogant and flew the aeronautical equivalent of a swollen hemorrhoid over the center of the US with an array the size of a business jet dangling underneath. Hard to miss something that big. But being big and easy to see it is also easy to hide what you don't want seen. Not as if we don't hide stuff routinely from satellites and this thing was just hanging out. You could even muster your troops in a parking lot and give the Chinese the middle finger. For the life of me I don't see what extra it provided beyond what a low Earth orbit satellite could provide. There is an unwritten rule about nations leaving each others intel satellites alone but something like that you jam the daylights out of.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

This 'reds under the bed' stuff is pathetic and hypocritical. The US has over 50 spy satellites whizzing over other peoples' countries.

Spy satellites are fine since nobody owns space, so everybody including China is allowed to spy from space (even private institutions - that's how we can see what Russia is doing in Ukraine without having to go thru any government vetting)

The issue is violating another country's airspace - the US has every right to complain and shoot down the balloon (just like in 1960 the Soviets had every right to complain and shoot down the US U2 spy plane flying over Soviet airspace)

And China would do the very same thing too if a giant US balloon flies over Chinese airspace without permission. Would ya call that pathetic and hypocritical too? (Remember, China also has over 50 spy satellites whizzing over other people's countries.)

4 ( +4 / -0 )

All this hyperventilating ignores the fact that the US does exactly the same thing, but is more discreet about it. 

Careful, you might take the air out of the MSM.

invalid CSRF

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Slow-moving balloons at very high altitudes are very difficult to detect and track.

If you have citizens spotting it and calling it in before the government and the media finds out about and then the pentagon has to reluctantly admit what it is, that’s beyond bad optics wise, not to mention the political fallout.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

All this hyperventilating ignores the fact that the US does exactly the same thing, but is more discreet about it. The US launches its balloons into the stratosphere and uses coatings and shapes to make the US balloon less visible and less detectable by radar. The US has been floating intel balloons over other people's countries since the 1950s. Every nation sort of tolerates other nations intel efforts because nobody wants to initiate a tit for tat destruction of each others intel platforms. All that really accomplishes is to poke each others eyes out and could lead to escalation, which incidentally the Chinese have hinted at after the US shot their balloon down.

Often having eyes over your enemies territory tells you nothing bad is about to happen. That is a good thing. A nation's leaders can sleep soundly when they know their enemy's forces are in their barracks and not mustering in mass at a port loading on ships to invade someplace. I can say that in my time on active duty we did some things when we knew a satellite was not overhead to observe, then knocked off what we were doing and hid stuff when the satellite was flying by. That is still true today. One of the reasons the US operated the SR-71 was because it was not predictable like a satellite so it could sometimes catch adversaries doing things that they hid from satellites, and the US was not the least bit shy about flying the old Blackbird over other nations without their permission. So this balloon thing is a lot of whining and chest thumping about nothing.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Slow-moving balloons at very high altitudes are very difficult to detect and track.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

So of course he has to take action, and had it not been for a few people that saw the thing and called it in we would have never known.

as proven by the fact we never heard about the first one 4 months ago when it happened.

and only heard about this one because the public actually saw it in the sky and posted it on Twitter. It was purposefully hidden from the people for the 4 days prior to that.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

One President is notified,

puts the Chinese on notice

ROFL

and recovers the equipment for analysis. 

Well, if he didn’t that would look even worse optically.

The other one rants and raves while doing nothing

According to whom?

I will take that contrast to election season anyday

Hmmmm

1 ( +5 / -4 )

so a spy balloon this time and only this time performed no functions of...a spy balloon.

it didnt record, it didnt transmit, it didnt gather any information they already didnt have, supposedly

this all presented as factual by the left unless someone can "prove it did".

its like the left seeing a bird in a tree and claiming it cant fly unless i have proof it can.

no, you have to prove a bird cant perform its intended and confirmed function, which is flying.

So can you prove the spy balloon didnt spy? I mean its called a "spy" balloon that should give you a big hint what it does.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

You have to know that had the Chair Force shot that balloon down over the US and it did any kind of damage the same people here would be screaming bloody murder about incompetence. It's just noise. Some who post here are not happy unless they are angry about something.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

A day without a chinese spy balloon story, is a day without sunshine

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Biden wasn't caught. He was notified when the balloon was first located and took immediate action based on the intelligence he received. The transmission from the balloon was blocked. When it was over water it was shot down.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Biden followed the correct advice of his military and advisors.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Thanks, I think most of us no what spying means.

You fooled me.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Blacklabel

   https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/

> looks real credible. A blog with the two XX's to spell a word that has one.

> Might as well be called Sleezz Beezz.

I will read this site and many more to learn what I can before I just accept your emotional posts.

Try sandox.com and then you will find out why XXs

Our Mission

Sandboxx connects our military community, making service members and their supporters more mission-ready than ever before.

Developed by veterans with decades of service, we are an application for the United States Military.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

This 'reds under the bed' stuff is pathetic and hypocritical. The US has over 50 spy satellites whizzing over other peoples' countries.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

He would have shot it down. Remind me, what did Biden do in the end? 

He had no choice, he got caught….again…smh

The entire administration, heads of national security, State Department, DoD, Congress were not told? 

According to whom?

That’s treason. 

And this stunt?

And you cant blame someone who wasn’t told for not taking action. How is that logical?

Nothing, absolutely nothing this administration does remotely resembles logic.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

They wouldn't have been able to salvage much of it as intact as possible if it was shut down and impacted on solid ground, instead of water

Seems the balloon had propellers and rudder to steer, so It was maneuverable, able to linger left and right in the winds over specific areas. Had solar panels to supply electric power. Since it's maneuverable, if it was lost, why didn't China warn countries in its path about the dangerous situation of a 3-bus-size balloon over their heads?

Plus, previous balloons were also detected also without warning, and now other balloons are being detected in Latin America - why are there so many balloons getting "lost" so far outside China? Or is China doing "weather" reconnaissance way outside China too, that their satellites couldn't already do, and without first asking permission from other countries whose airspaces they'd be violating?

Meanwhile, for over the last week, the CCP has been looking at thousands of new pictures of what should be secure facilities and installations in the US.

China has spy satellites that can already do those - that comes with much less political backlash (since nobody owns space, so everybody is allowed to spy from space, even private institutions - that's how we can see what Russia is doing in Ukraine without having to go thru any government vetting)

8 ( +8 / -0 )

The function of a spy balloon is to collect intelligence but the transmission of data like photos is very limited. Could transmit to a satellite when in the right position.

Thanks, I think most of us no what spying means.

The balloon could radio back any collected data, perhaps even to a Chinese satellite overhead, but there have been no reports of radio transmission from the balloon. 

Anyone believing that deserves to be ridiculed.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Chinese spies on the ground are far more dangerous than balloons in the sky.

Yes, too bad Eric Swalwell couldn't figure that out.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

It sounds like the Pentagon didn't want to notify Trump. The realistic reason may be that the President didn't need to know. 

From what is out there in some other media sources, the US DoD did not know the balloons were over the US or Gulf of Mexico until after the fact and the information about their flight path supposedly came from sources outside of the US DoD. Nobody is being specific about who or what those sources were, or maybe still are, possibly to protect their identity.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Oh? Now how would you know what the Chinese have or don’t have???

You and RKL seem to think you do. Come on man.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

The balloon could radio back any collected data, perhaps even to a Chinese satellite overhead, but there have been no reports of radio transmission from the balloon.

Sigh. It is not as if there is going to be the equivalent of a traffic report, oooh, newsflash, the big Chinese balloon is transmitting right now. But you can bet more than beers the sensors and comms were being jammed. It is difficult to imagine the balloon could gather any information not already known to the Chinese from their low Earth orbit satellites.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Worrying about balloons is the equivalent of looking under the bed every night for Chinese spies.

Did the balloon collect valuable intel for China?

The short answer is no. Defense officials have been clear that steps were taken to mitigate the system’s ability to collect or relay any data, and savvy Twitter and Reddit users were quick to note the presence of aircraft like the RC-135 Rivet Joint near the areas the balloon traversed.

The Rivet Joint is a heavily modified Boeing C-135 Stratolifter, a sibling of Boeing’s civilian 707, jam-packed with electronic warfare and surveillance equipment.

https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/chinese-spy-balloon-answering-all-your-questions-and-dispelling-the-myths/

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Chinese spies on the ground are far more dangerous than balloons in the sky.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

The Nave hasn't released any info on this balloon but this isn't the first spy balloon and there are many sites and reports on them. Suggest some people do some reading on them.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

The DoD knew, at least, of course. They were the ones who made the decision not to tell the President.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

RKL: It's good news Biden let the CCP violate US airspace and go on a virtual tour of key military installations and nuclear silos in the US? Ok . . . .

The experts decided there was no threat and the cost of shooting it down over the US could kill people.

Try to be less emotional and read my words with a clear mind.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

SuperlibToday  08:37 am JST

They'll know soon enough after examining it. The good news is that Biden took action unlike the previous president who did nothing. If you're worried about pics, start there.

It's good news Biden let the CCP violate US airspace and go on a virtual tour of key military installations and nuclear silos in the US? Ok . . . .

wallaceToday  08:40 am JST

The function of a spy balloon is to collect intelligence but the transmission of data like photos is very limited. Could transmit to a satellite when in the right position.

After telling us the Navy hasn't released the capabilities of the ballon you come up with this gem?

Ok "wallace". We'll bank US security on that information.

ROFL!!!!

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

It sounds like the Pentagon didn't want to notify Trump. The realistic reason may be that the President didn't need to know. The more conspiratorial reason is that they feared he would overreact to the situation. Sorry for the FN link:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/pompeo-calls-out-accusation-trump-pentagon-notify-chinese-balloons

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Wifi is very limited at 60,000 feet.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Black: Because they were never told and it likely never happened.

It's good to keep things from Trump. He's too emotional and would have made bad decisions.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Bass: Oh? Now how would you know what the Chinese have or don’t have???

Yes. I listened to the experts and not emotional Republicans trying to score political points.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Wallace,maybe it connected to wifi hotspot

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

The good news is that Biden took action unlike the previous president who did nothing.

Because they were never told and it likely never happened.

it’s not the own you think it is that if anyone even knew (unlikely) they never mentioned it to anyone in charge or Trump until after this happened twice to Biden?

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

What information did the Chinese ballons collect undetected during Trump's term?

1 ( +5 / -4 )

regardless of what that balloon carried and what it managed to capture, I would hope I that we can all agree- no matter what side of the fence you sit on that it is time to start seriously sanctioning China

8 ( +10 / -2 )

The function of a spy balloon is to collect intelligence but the transmission of data like photos is very limited. Could transmit to a satellite when in the right position.

The balloon could radio back any collected data, perhaps even to a Chinese satellite overhead, but there have been no reports of radio transmission from the balloon.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/chinese-spy-balloons-skys-limit

4 ( +7 / -3 )

This has been explained to you numerous times. The balloon didn't get anything the Chinese didn't already have.

Oh? Now how would you know what the Chinese have or don’t have???

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Blacklabel: you would need to prove that it did not send back pics.

They'll know soon enough after examining it. The good news is that Biden took action unlike the previous president who did nothing. If you're worried about pics, start there.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

So, no. Reality is you don’t know.

As Well as the Democrats and this WH don’t know.

Whatever debris the navy recovered it has not released any info on the capabilities of the balloon.

Actually, that’s not true. We probably will know the basics about it being a spy balloon, that in itself is damning enough.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

RKL: Meanwhile, for over the last week, the CCP has been looking at thousands of new pictures of what should be secure facilities and installations in the US.

This has been explained to you numerous times. The balloon didn't get anything the Chinese didn't already have.

Set you emotion aside and look at the facts. You'll be a better citizen for it.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

The is no evidence that the balloon was able to transmit photos back to China. 

There is no evidence they did not.

And as that is the actual function of a spy ballon, you would need to prove that it did not send back pics.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Whatever debris the navy recovered it has not released any info on the capabilities of the balloon.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Bob FosseToday  07:57 am JST

*The is no evidence that the balloon was able to transmit photos back to China. **

You have to be out of touch with reality to believe that.

You have evidence then?

Of course we don't have evidence.

But at the least, the US Navy has the evidence, Makes sense, as the US military shot down the balloon.

Or was that a conspiracy too?

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

"Gen. Glen VanHerck, commander of US Northern Command and North American Aerospace Defense Command, told reporters a “domain awareness gap” led to the Pentagon’s failure to detect the “threats” during Trump’s tenure, but the military later learned about the balloons via intelligence-gathering operations “from additional means.”"

"VanHerck offered clarity after a senior Defense official said Saturday that Chinese government surveillance balloons flew over the U.S. at least three times during Trump’s time in office and once at the beginning of Biden’s tenure, adding that none of the previous four flights lasted as long as the most recent incident."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2023/02/06/pentagon-admits-it-failed-to-spot-3-chinese-spy-balloons-during-trumps-term/?sh=2f821fb7a92a

4 ( +7 / -3 )

You have evidence then?

That comment in itself.

So, no. Reality is you don’t know.

6 ( +14 / -8 )

You have evidence then?

That comment in itself.

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

The is no evidence that the balloon was able to transmit photos back to China. *

You have to be out of touch with reality to believe that.

You have evidence then?

6 ( +11 / -5 )

> The is no evidence that the balloon was able to transmit photos back to China.

You have to be out of touch with reality to believe that.

Three Chinese balloons during Trump's term and what they recorded are unknown.

Hmmm, not one word or mention about it, zero proof or time or date until this happened on Biden’s watch.

-5 ( +8 / -13 )

The is no evidence that the balloon was able to transmit photos back to China. Three Chinese balloons during Trump's term and what they recorded are unknown.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

Meanwhile, for over the last week, the CCP has been looking at thousands of new pictures of what should be secure facilities and installations in the US.

-15 ( +5 / -20 )

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