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Netanyahu to Polish PM: Holocaust comment 'unacceptable'

16 Comments
By Thomas KIENZLE

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Sadly there's no question in historians' mind that a lot of Poles had a hand in their country's suffering, while other Poles formed an active resistance against Nazis. Gagging history is not proper. To truly bury the past, it's best it be understood, not denied.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Many inhabitants of countries invaded by Germany during WW2 collaborated with the invaders. Trying to rewrite history 70 years after the fact won't change the truth.

Antisemitism had been rife for centuries in Russia and Eastern Europe. It extended to the UK, Canada and the USA, in terms of refusals to accept Jewish refugees in the 1930's. Us Gentiles need to accept this fact. It's painful, but it's a true fact.

Denial will merely place us in the same sad position as the Turks who are still trying to pretend that the Armenian genocide never happened, a century after the fact.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

"He told him that the remarks that were made were unacceptable and that there was no basis for comparing the actions of Poles during the Holocaust to those of Jews."

How about Polish Jews Mr Netanyahu?

'Perpetrator' was probably too strong a word but 'some sort of' Jewish collaboration or complicity with Nazis before and during ww2 cant be denied and it occurred all across Europe.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Yeah right, as if there was no anti-semitism in Poland during WW2? I'd suspect the majority of Poland's population at that time was anti-semitic at that time and took a schadenfreude type view of the Holocaust, if not outright collaboration. One only needs to remember what happened to the Jews in the Baltics, Romania, and Ukraine at the hands of the local population (not the Nazis) to see that Poland's denials are delusional at best

1 ( +2 / -1 )

If any "Jewish collaboration or complicity with Nazis" occurred during WW2, it would have been so statistically insignificant as to hardly register, and would have been small-scale, on an individual survival basis. Certainly no historian I've ever read has ever mentioned it. So Morawiecki was out of line comparing that to the Germans and UkrainIans, but nevertheless I have a lot of sympathy with Poland on this issue. Poland was the country that suffered most during WW2, with somewhere between 3 and 4 million civilians being victims of the the war - and that's not including the roundup and murder of the Jewish population. Yes, there was widespread anti-Semitism in Poland, as there was thoughout eastern Europe and some Western countries. But it wasn't the Poles who rounded up the Jews and transported them to the death camps (also constructed by the Germans) it was the German Nazis. Polish anti-semitism never extended so far as the pogrom (a Russian invention) or mass murder. In his book 'Savage Continent' historian Keith Lowe puts the postwar death toll among Jews sat the hands of Poles at about 1,500 people. Sure, 1,500 too many, but compare that to the 6 million Jewish dead at the hands of the Germans and their most vicious collaborators, who did not include the invaded Poles who lost their country and their independence to the German and Russian invaders.

I don't blame the Poles for wanting to make references to 'Polish death camps' illegal - it seems pretty much the same as the anti-Holocaust denial legislation enacted in many other countries. The fact that amnesia about WW2 seems to be growing with the passage of time, perhaps understandably, makes it necessary in order to prevent confusion between aggressor (Nazi Germany) and victim (Poland, as well as the Jews).

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

More Jews were killed in Poland than any other country. Its now illegal in Poland to call the concentration camps "Polish Death Camps" and can imprison offenders.

Poland was the country that suffered most during WW2, with somewhere between 3 and 4 million civilians being victims of the the war -

Big suffering yes but Soviet Union lost more than 20 million.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Of course there were individuals, Jewish included, who collaborated with both the Nazis and the Soviets, both of whom mercilessly slaughtered Jews and others. Of course there were many individuals who did whatever they could to survive. And sadly revisionists will distort history to favor their culture.

Certainly no historian I've ever read

Snyder's Bloodlands is an excellent source.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodlands

Big suffering yes but Soviet Union lost more than 20 million.

True, but Poland probably had more deaths per capita. China's suffering shouldn't be forgotten.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Human_losses_by_country

4 ( +4 / -0 )

China's suffering shouldn't be forgotten.

China were not part of the European war

1 ( +2 / -1 )

China were not part of the European war

Well aware of that. Just bringing up a point that Europeans and North Americans too often ignore.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

zichi - certainly more Soviet citizens lost their lives than in any country. 20 million, as you say,and WW2 would not have been won without them. But Poland suffered the highest number of deaths as a percentage of its pre-war population. The only other country that comes close is Yugoslavia - but there was a multi-party civil war going on there as well.

"Many more Jews were killed in Poland than in any other country" - yes, but by the Germans, not the Poles. That's what the Poles are pissed off about.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

And sadly revisionists will distort history to favor their culture.

If you include Israeli revisionists then yes I agree with you.

Imo most euro countries (am talking about the mainland) are fine with their past (meaning they 'own' it) and know that many of their citizens collaborated or at the very least sympathised with pre ww2 Nazi ideology and/or early ww2 until the implementation of the final solution; a white Europe without Jews, Gypsies etc was a very appealing prospect for many euros back then.

In my experience, the majority of ppl who still don't get ww2 or euro/world history are anglos (particularly new world anglos I have to say) whose only contribution to the debate is often some easy/silly "if it weren't for us you would all be speaking German today haha' drivel. (which isn't untrue as such and often warrants a "yep, possibly...and?" i.e that's precisely what many wanted/tacitly accepted!)

If any "Jewish collaboration or complicity with Nazis" occurred during WW2, it would have been so statistically insignificant as to hardly register, and would have been small-scale, on an individual survival basis. Certainly no historian I've ever read has ever mentioned it

Hmm, the role played by the Judenrat is still very controversial today even among Jewish historians.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@goldo If you include Israeli revisionists then yes I agree with you.

I definitely include them.

the majority of ppl who still don't get ww2 or euro/world history

I can only speak with regard to my fellow US Americans, and sadly have to agree.

That the Russians paid an enormous cost is absolutely true. It's highly unlikely the Nazis could have been defeated without them. But Russians too have revised their own history. They've blocked and unblocked then blocked again access to their war files. Some think they've done so to keep their own people from learning more about the numerous atrocities Soviets committed against their own peoples.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

In Poland from WW2, 6 million people were killed or about 18% of the population. This figure is high because it includes the 3 million Jews in the Polish Death Camps. The number of Polish non Jews about 3 million. 3.5 million people were exterminated in the death camps. Shameful and tragic face of a humanity without humanity.

90% of the Polish Jewish community were exterminated.

The Polish non Jews were never involved in the building of the death camps or the extermination of Jews.

Polish citizens have the world's highest count of individuals who have been recognized by Israel's Yad Vashem as Righteous among the Nations— as non-Jews who risked their lives to save Jews from extermination during the Holocaust.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Poles need to get over themselves. Some of their citizens under the threat of an occupying army assisted in the Holocaust.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The same as in France. Yet for some reason the French don't make pathetic laws such as this.

The only pathetic law we have is sending people to gaol for Holocaust denial. Let the freaks wear the tinfoil and show themselves to all.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Holocaust_deaths

but as if you degrade the deaths of 60million people in favour of 1,5-4million jews, then your post is goodbye. every women and child and their father is a victim. even Gaza, Yemen or Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.we need to chill out and share different food and music

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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