Netanyahu visits France amid spike in Mideast tensions

wallaceFeb. 5  03:37 pm JST

The USA was formed in 1776, but it had to absorb all the different people living on the land although it did try to massacre the natives. The formation of Israel was not only for the Jewish people but all the people living on the land.

Although this article is not about the USA, it is true when Israel creates all living there were welcomed.

Unfortunately, the Arabs wanted all the lands for themselves so they invaded and fought the Israelis.

And lost.

That's history.

The word democracy comes from the Greek words "demos", meaning people, and "kratos" meaning power; so democracy can be thought of as "power of the people": a way of governing which depends on the will of the people.

Features of democracy often include freedom of assembly, association, property rights, freedom of religion and speech, inclusiveness and equality, citizenship, consent of the governed, voting rights, freedom from unwarranted governmental deprivation of the right to life and liberty, and minority rights.

Democracy is built upon the idea of political equality where all people irrespective of their caste, creed, religion, colour, race,sex can participate in political system and elections. It relies upon the idea that each and every person has the right to voice in political system and administration of the country.

Israel is an ethnic democracy based on the Jewish religion.

The USA was formed in 1776, but it had to absorb all the different people living on the land although it did try to massacre the natives. The formation of Israel was not only for the Jewish people but all the people living on the land.

Desert TortoiseFeb. 4  04:20 am JST

But this story that there is no real Palestinian people is a bald faced lie. They are the descendants of the Philistines and Canaanites who inhabited the region long before the first Israelites arrived from Egypt.

Completely wrong.

Philistines were believed to be of Greek origin.

The land belongs to Israel. They've lived there the longest, and they earned it.

Or, more importantly, Israel has been a legally established country since 1948.

Unless you believe that to be a lie.

Huh? You just wrote Israel was formed in 1948. So, it is impossible for Israeli Arabs to have lived in Israel for thousands of years.

They are the descendants of the Philistines and Canaanites who were living there in their kingdoms before the Israelites arrived to wage war on them. They were all conquered in succession by the Babylonians, followed by the Romans, Ottomans and the British. Jews were largely absent until the late 1800s when the Zionist movement was formed, a reaction to the harsh and deadly anti-Jewish pogroms of the Russians and Poles, and general anti-semitism of Europe. Jews began to settle in what was Ottoman controlled Palestine and Jewish immigration increased under British rule, leading to conflicts with the existing Arab population.

But this story that there is no real Palestinian people is a bald faced lie. They are the descendants of the Philistines and Canaanites who inhabited the region long before the first Israelites arrived from Egypt.

Israel was formed in 1948

and yes the Israeli Arabs lived on the land for thousands of years before that.

Not difficult to understand.

Isreal can be a Jewish state or it can be a democracy. It cannot be both.

It wants to be a Jewish state but does not know how to resolve the Arab problems.

Isreal can be a Jewish state or it can be a democracy. It cannot be both and still claim to treat the 20% of non-Jewish citizens as equal members of society.

And you obviously do not know what you are talking about given my history (well-documented history) of being critical of the lack of human rights and democracy in the majority muslim nations of the Middle East.

If Isreal is going to claim to be different then it must act differently towards it's minorities.

NemoToday  04:13 pm JST

So if the citizens of a nation that claims to be a democracy do not possess equal inate, inalienable rights due to their minority status and do not like the situation, they should just leave, huh?

No, and seeing who this is coming from it is not a surprise.

But Israel, which is a democracy, provides equal rights to its citizens.

Unless you believe Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Lebanon, Iraq etc. is more democratic to its citizens?

wallaceToday  01:20 pm JST

Israel was formed in 1948.

Thanks Britannica.

Israeli Arabs have lived on the land for thousands of years.

Huh? You just wrote Israel was formed in 1948. So, it is impossible for Israeli Arabs to have lived in Israel for thousands of years.

What it means to be an Arab citizen of Israel?

It means to have more freedom than if they lived in an Arab nation in the Middle East.

bass4funk

you claimed the 20% were the minority so what does that mean for equal civil rights?

Israel's most right-wing government. Things should go from simmering to boiling pretty fast now.

So you believe minorities should not have equal rights?

I never said, nor implied that.

How would that work out in the USA?

Israel is not the US.

How does that work out for your host country?

Not even pondering it.

Israel was formed in 1948.

Israeli Arabs have lived on the land for thousands of years.

What it means to be an Arab citizen of Israel?

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/world/what-it-means-to-be-an-arab-citizen-of-israel/48829

bass4funk

   But that is only 80% of the population. What about the other 20%?

> They are in the minority.

So you believe minorities should not have equal rights? How would that work out in the USA? How does that work out for your host country?

But that is only 80% of the population. What about the other 20%?

They are in the minority.

Actually, it is not. there are thousands of articles, reports, and studies on what a democracy is. At best, Israel is an ethnic democracy because it is based on religion and not on citizenship. Even all Israelis don't think differently.

Maybe the constitution in the Knesset needs to be amended.

If that’s what the Jewish nation wants then it’s there right to determine that.

But that is only 80% of the population. What about the other 20%?

   if it's a true democracy and not just a single section based solely on religion.

> Well, that’s your personal opinion on the matter, the Israelis think differently.

Actually, it is not. there are thousands of articles, reports, and studies on what a democracy is. At best, Israel is an ethnic democracy because it is based on religion and not on citizenship. Even all Israelis don't think differently.

Desert TortoiseToday  12:17 pm JST

Looking in from the outside in too many ways the laws of Israel resemble those of its Arab neighbors and especially so on matters of marriage, divorce, family law in general and land ownership. In Jewish law non-Jews are not considered trustworthy.

Are non-Muslims considered trustworthy in Sharia law countries?

If that’s what the Jewish nation wants then it’s there right to determine that.

No. The lands of Israel are too often taken by force from the families who have lived there for generations, forced to leave their land and live in a refugee camp while their land is given to newly arrived immigrants from other nations who are Jewish in the eyes of the official rabbinate.

Jewish women do not have the same rights as Jewish men. She cannot divorce her husband. In some Jewish sects, the women have to work to support their nonworking men.

Go research if women have the same rights as men in Islamic countries,

Looking in from the outside in too many ways the laws of Israel resemble those of its Arab neighbors and especially so on matters of marriage, divorce, family law in general and land ownership. In Jewish law non-Jews are not considered trustworthy. Rather they are considered to be a source of idolatry for the Jew. I worked for Chabad Lubavitch for a while, the only Goyim on the staff of their summer camp and it was eye opening to me. There really is not that much different between Arab and Jew except the religions they claim.

The land of Israel belongs to all the citizens who live there

If that’s what the Jewish nation wants then it’s there right to determine that.

if it's a true democracy and not just a single section based solely on religion.

Well, that’s your personal opinion on the matter, the Israelis think differently.

Some posters believe two wrongs make a right.

It’s Jewish land, they don’t want to keep it and pass it on to other Jews and keep the land in Jewish hands which is their right to do, I don’t have a control or say how they should delegate their land but it’s safe to say if a bunch of foreigners would come by the millions and buy up Japanese land they probably wouldn’t allow that either.

Israel takes the land from Muslim and Christian families who have lived on their land for many generations, takes the land by force leaving the families no place to go but a fetid concentration, er, I mean refugee camp, then hands their family lands over to new arrived immigrants who obtw happen to be Jewish. This is ethnic cleansing. It is not all right and the world has not just a right but a duty to object to this.

The topic of the post is Israel.

Isreal's country has 9.7 million citizens.

wallaceToday  10:59 am JST

The land of Israel belongs to all the citizens who live there if it's a true democracy and not just a single section based solely on religion.

It's Israel's country.

There are no second-class citizens in Japan. Chinese are buying land without any problems.

There are no second class citizens in Israel. And millions of Chinese aren't buying land in Japan. Hit the Googling!!

wallaceToday  11:07 am JST

Jewish women do not have the same rights as Jewish men. She cannot divorce her husband. In some Jewish sects, the women have to work to support their nonworking men.

Go research if women have the same rights as men in Islamic countries,

Or, how are women treated in any Arab country in the Middle East?

Jewish women do not have the same rights as Jewish men. She cannot divorce her husband. In some Jewish sects, the women have to work to support their nonworking men.

https://www.womenslaw.org/laws/religious/abuse-jewish-community/all

There's a reason the Arabs living in Israel choose to live there instead of an Islamic country.

They have lived there for thousands of years. Long before any whites arrived in America.

The land of Israel belongs to all the citizens who live there if it's a true democracy and not just a single section based solely on religion.

Then they should move somewhere else if possible.

So the underprivileged in America should just move somewhere else if they don't like it.

if a bunch of foreigners would come by the millions and buy up Japanese land they probably wouldn’t allow that either.

There are no second-class citizens in Japan. Chinese are buying land without any problems.

The non-Jews do not have the same civil rights. A Muslim from East Jerusalem can not buy a house in West Jerusalem. According to Israel Lands Administration rules, residents of East Jerusalem cannot take ownership of the vast majority of Jerusalem homes.

It’s Jewish land, they don’t want to keep it and pass it on to other Jews and keep the land in Jewish hands which is their right to do, I don’t have a control or say how they should delegate their land but it’s safe to say if a bunch of foreigners would come by the millions and buy up Japanese land they probably wouldn’t allow that either.

Not all people are free to marry whomever they want.

Then they should move somewhere else if possible.

The population is 9.364 million (2021). At the end of 2021, the Muslim population of Israel was estimated at 1.707 million (18.1% of all residents). The Christians are a further 2%.

The non-Jews do not have the same civil rights. A Muslim from East Jerusalem can not buy a house in West Jerusalem. According to Israel Lands Administration rules, residents of East Jerusalem cannot take ownership of the vast majority of Jerusalem homes.

Not all people are free to marry whomever they want.

The Nation-State Law

  1. It states that “the right to exercise national self-determination” in Israel is “unique to the Jewish people.”

  2. It establishes Hebrew as Israel’s official language, and downgrades Arabic — a language widely spoken by Arab Israelis — to a “special status.”

   3. It establishes “Jewish settlement as a national value” and mandates that the state “will labor to encourage and promote its establishment and development.”

Israel is a democracy in the sense that South Africa was pre-Apartheid, or the US was pre-Jim Crow. Great if you are one of the in-crown, not so great if you are on the outside looking in.

Israeli Arabs have the same rights as Jewish citizens in Israel.

Arabs and Christians are not allowed to intermarry with Jews. It is against Israeli law. There is no civil marriage in Israel. You can only marry within your faith. There are only certain government recognized religions in which someone may marry. When I was going to church my particular denomination back then, the Methodists, are not recognized by the Israeli government, as if it is any business of theirs in the first place, and were I an Israeli I would not be allowed to marry a Roman Catholic or a Lutheran. Marriages of Reform or Conservative Jews are not recognized in Israel and the official rabbinate there does not even recognize Reform or Conservative Jews to be Jewish. They are non religious in their official view. An Israeli who marries a foreigner is not married under Israeli law. This is not a democracy in any sense of the word.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/jerusalem-church-leaders-warn-radical-groups-driving-christians-from-holy-land/

Netanyahu said Israel is only for 80% of the population, the Jews

It is becoming more exclusionary than that. Now some Israeli cabinet members are saying many Jewish immigrants are not Jewish in the eyes of the orthodox clergy who do not recognize Reform Jews or Conservative Jews as being Jewish. For the orthodox rabbinate being ethnically Jewish is also not enough to qualify as "Jewish" if you also say you are not religious.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-most-new-immigrants-to-israel-arent-considered-jewish/

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/08/world/middleeast/israeli-minister-says-reform-jews-are-not-really-jewish.html

You also have Israeli religious zealots now turning their hatred on Christians living in Israel.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2021-02-06/ty-article/.highlight/how-israeli-jews-fear-of-christianity-turned-into-hatred/0000017f-dbd5-d3ff-a7ff-fbf562150000

wallaceToday  09:50 am JST

There are 20% of the Israeli population are not Jews. I am speaking about those who live in Israel, not in the West Bank or Gaza but do not have the same equal rights as the other 80% of the population.

Israeli Arabs have the same rights as Jewish citizens in Israel.

Stop spreading anti-semitic propaganda,

There are 20% of the Israeli population are not Jews. I am speaking about those who live in Israel,

I was referring to that.

All those Israeli citizens who are Jewish and none Jewish.

I was not talking about those Israelis, I was specific

Netanyahu said Israel is only for 80% of the population, the Jews.

Some of the 20% non-Jews are also Christians, not Muslims.

Again, I was referring to those Israelis that do want to see the Jews destroyed not talking about the Christian factions, I am talking specifically about the ones that will never acknowledge the Jewish nation.

There are 20% of the Israeli population are not Jews. I am speaking about those who live in Israel, not in the West Bank or Gaza but do not have the same equal rights as the other 80% of the population.

All those Israeli citizens who are Jewish and none Jewish.

Netanyahu said Israel is only for 80% of the population, the Jews.

Some of the 20% non-Jews are also Christians, not Muslims.

Democracy means there are no second-class citizens.

If the second class citizens denounce the Jewish nation of Israel and call for a jihad and advocate for the extermination of the Jewish people, they are not part of the democratic nation to put more bluntly. They don’t want to be part of the Democrat nation especially if you call for the destruction of your so-called own country.

Why do people need to boast about Israel as a democracy even if only an ethnic one? I guess if people constantly say it then it will be believed. I would like to see an equal democracy for all Israeli citizens and not just 80%. The current extreme right-wing government is bad for the country. Hundreds of thousands demonstrated against it.

Democracy means there are no second-class citizens.

Nice to see two leaders of democratic countries agree on the dangers to the West.