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Countries start thinking about easing restrictions, even as virus death toll rises in Europe, U.S.

45 Comments
By MARINA VILLENUEVE AND LORI HINNANT

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45 Comments
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End stay at home!

Save the economy!

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

The problem is not knowing the population that has been exposed without diagnosis or being asymptomatic. A base rate less than 2-3 % and tests are going to have to be extremely accurate or you will end up with more false positives than the number that actually had it. Not to mention possible mutations of the virus and disputes over mask wearing mandates, etc. The stay at home orders will have to be lifted gradually, followed by government offices and restaurants/bars probably not for a while. Unfortunately for that sector.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

People who have recovered and are immune should not be subject to lockdowns and social distancing

I haven't read research has determined that. I thought it's still way too early to have any definite findings on this particular virus. Unless this is a continuation of 'it's just another flu/cold' line of 'reasoning'. I don't think that sort of 'reasoning' has helped much.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I think it's clear after one of the doctors at recent whitehouse briefing admitted the USA is, quote,

liberal with it's tallying. Someone with stage 4 pancreatic cancer, for example, catches covid19 in their final moments and then dies, they mark it down specifically as a covid19 death. The death toll numbers being reported are dubious and the media is engaged in scaremongering.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

Mr. Noidall

what kinda of skewing of the numbers are we seeing here based on the thousands of cancer patients that Covid pushed over the edge? I’ll wait for your guess-timate.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

what kinda of skewing of the numbers are we seeing here based on the thousands of cancer patients that Covid pushed over the edge? I’ll wait for your guess-timate.

Hey, I'm just going by what the doctor said at the whitehouse briefing.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

Mr. NoidallToday 07:52 am JST liberal with it's tallying. Someone with stage 4 pancreatic cancer, for example, catches covid19 in their final moments and then dies, they mark it down specifically as a covid19 death.

It might be in Trumpcountry, in many nations (Germany, France, Spain, Italy) it's the opposite. People suffering from life threatening diseases like cancer or severe heart problems, other patients in their terminal stages (ALS) are not counted as corona related death. Thats why the offcial numers are nothing more than an indication. Italy is a sad example of it where the real number of corona related death is much higher than the official number.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

People who have recovered and are immune should not be subject to lockdowns and social distancing.

They should be back at work so they can help make up for those who can't work.

I agree.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

Burning BushToday 06:51 am JST People who have recovered and are immune should not be subject to lockdowns and social distancing. They should be back at work so they can help make up for those who can't work.

Unfortunately those who suffered mild symptoms (light fever) and recovered are not immune. That is if German and Dutch research is correct.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Hey, I'm just going by what the doctor said at the whitehouse briefing

You just can’t quote or cite this.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

BurningBush & Bass4funk....

People who recovered and later tested positive for Covid-19 could have been reinfected due to variations in their health and immune response, but also could be results of detection of residual viral RNA or a previous false positive.....bottom line, the medical community does not yet know the extent and duration of immunity granted by recovery from Covid-19, so clearly too early to claim any blanket statements such as "Get back to work".

6 ( +7 / -1 )

so clearly too early to claim any blanket statements such as "Get back to work".

So it's better that people's livelihood be ruined while government officials--whose incomes remain steady--dictate when you can come outside, for how long, where and how far and for what purposes you can go somewhere? I think about Patrick Henry who said give me freedom or give me death. Apropos the current situation, I prefer to to get sick and die then be dependent on the government for my livelihood and be under their daily mandates.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

US trial of Japanese flu drug for coronavirus gets green light

https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/fda-approves-first-us-trial-of-flu-drug-for-coronavirus/

1 ( +2 / -1 )

, I prefer to to get sick and die then be dependent on the government for my livelihood and be under their daily mandates.

If you live in Japan, nobody is stopping you from going out and engaging in activities that could get you infected. Enjoy yourself, but don’t whine when you get infected.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Dr. Noidall

I prefer to to get sick and die then be dependent on the government for my livelihood and be under their daily mandates.

Unfortunately, since you might spread the disease to others by going back to work in your need to remain financially solvent.....do I need to complete this sentence, or is the selfishness in panicking to rush back to your normal life apparent? Gamble with your own health, not mine.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

It was coming. Only so much an economy can endure. It's the money, honey.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Unfortunately, since you might spread the disease

Not if I don't have it.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Unfortunately, since you might spread the disease to others by going back to work in your need to remain financially solvent.....do I need to complete this sentence, or is the selfishness in panicking to rush back to your normal life apparent? Gamble with your own health, not mine.

Don't get me wrong. I'm complying with the stay at home order. But if it goes on indefinitely, something will have to give. And I'm not the only one thinking this way.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Clearly this will not go on "indefinitely", and it's also gone on for a relatively short time (generally less than 2 months of various forms of "lockdown").

With deaths increasing on a daily basis people are already talking "after the plague". I get it, people need to be hopeful and some people need to mentally set their "I'm done with this by such-and-such a date" in order to cope. I get it and I hope that this outlet allows you to manage. However, be flexible and try to get your head around the concept that you can unintentionally spread the disease and kill others without knowing you have it...that's the message to focus on....others and not just yourself. Many people seem so focused on "This is only causing me problems".

1 ( +2 / -1 )

In past years we've had up to 60,000 flu or other lungs deaths per year. Today they're mostly being blamed on COVID-19. I'd like to see numbers comparing death data.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

And separately...regarding reinfection...

From a preprint paper on Medrxiv.org

 

Scientists from Fudan University analyzed samples from 175 patients discharged from the Shanghai Public Health Clinical Centre and found that approximately about 30% had antibody titer values less than 500, a level that may be too low to provide protection. In some cases, no antibodies were detected. All of the patients had recently recovered from MILD symptoms.

Although this is a preliminary study which has yet to be peer-reviewed, it is the first examination of antibody levels in patients who had recovered from Covid-19.

“About 30% of patients failed to develop high titers of neutralising antibodies after Covid-19 infection. However, the disease duration of these patients compared to others was similar,".

3 ( +3 / -0 )

of course , once GOVs made crazy stimulus QE with the pseudo virus as pretext . it is back to normal ...

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

WHO advises against the application of any travel or trade restrictions on China based on the information currently available on this event.

12 Januay 2020

https://www.who.int/csr/don/12-january-2020-novel-coronavirus-china/en/

Unbelievable! They could have stopped it back then.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Burning Bush

People who have recovered and are immune should not be subject to lockdowns and social distancing.

They should be back at work so they can help make up for those who can't work.

This is the first thing you've said that makes any sense. For once I agree. The problem is the antibody tests are quite limited and inaccurate currently. Governments should be working on developing and mass deploying accurate antibody tests. Even then, we need to be cautious with this approach because it is still not known how long immunity will last.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Burning Bush

"Pre-existing conditions" does not always mean that the particular person is on their deathbed and all it took was a gentle nudge from corona to push the patient into the abyss. Many patients are/were doing fine and their pre-existing condition are/was managed quite well, until corona came along and made the worst of a bad situation.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Then we find out that research

Serious question: in this the age of the internet and social media when the majority of people get news from social media, who's more responsible for spreading fake news/alt facts/misinformation: the poster or the media allowing their posts.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The number of expected deaths and hospitalizations keeps decreasing by 25% every couple days. Time to reopen the areas that make sense within this month.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

The researchers behind the University of Washington’s widely cited coronavirus model updated their projections for the second time this week, with death projections falling over 35 percent since Sunday and the U.S. peak moved to April 11.

Death projections in the IHME model, which was used by the White House to inform a warning that the country was facing a “best case scenario” of 100,000 and 200,000 deaths, have been cut by an additional 20,000 since Sunday’s initial revision to 81,766, to now project 60,415 total deaths in the U.S. The estimate of needed hospital beds was also cut nearly in half from 141,000 to 94,249, with needed ICU beds cut by nearly one-third to under 20,000.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@blacklabused by the White House to inform a warning that the country was facing a “best case scenario” of 100,000 and 200,000 deaths

Given the Trump WH's constant lies and given their manipulations of data to hide Trump's mistakes and make him look good I wonder whether Trump etal intentionally chose that high number betting the actual would be less so Trump and his advisors Hannity/Limbaugh etal could claim 'look what the stable genius who knows more than the doctors accomplished'.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Chip Star

If you live in Japan, nobody is stopping you from going out and engaging in activities that could get you infected. Enjoy yourself, but don’t whine when you get infected.

Or demand sympathy from everyone after they get infected despite being told that it was a bad idea and risks other people's lives like Boris Johnson and that article from yesterday on JT!

4 ( +4 / -0 )

It's hilarious watching the Trump supporters here engage in fantasy....

They know with the economy evaporating, Trump's only chance for reelection has gone up in smoke. It's always been a fairy tale that Trump was somehow responsible for a good economy - US GDP has decreased the past two years. Now, any Trump supporter who has some gains left in their 401K has to thank Obama, as the market is now below where it was in Jan 2017. So in the middle of a pandemic, they screech that it's time to get back to work - and shortcut whatever progress we've made so far stopping the virus. If they really believe that, then it's time to start back up Trump rallies - let all the Trump supporters get together and high-five one another. Just tell them they once they leave, they can't interact with anyone else, unless they are wearing a MAGA hat.

And now they allege some dark, world-wide Deep State conspiracy to inflate the virus infected numbers. I guess they think they're counting Bigfoot deaths too. Maybe we ought to start counting the accidental Hydroxychloroquine too?

By their every action they show Trump-world is no different from any other sick cult.

Bye-Don 2020...

6 ( +6 / -0 )

@Blacklabel

The number of expected deaths and hospitalizations keeps decreasing by 25% every couple days. Time to reopen the areas that make sense within this month.

Where are the credible sources? Please cite.

False or misleading information is the difference between life and death.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

The number of expected deaths and hospitalizations keeps decreasing by 25% every couple days. Time to reopen the areas that make sense within this month.

Even if the epidemiologists say that this will result in a resurgence of cases?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

In China, the lockdown of Wuhan, the industrial city of 11 million where the global pandemic began, was lifted after 76 days, allowing people to come and go.

Traffic was almost dead a month ago, but now it seems to be recovering a bit.

https://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/traffic-index/wuhan-traffic/

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Well, it's now official...more people in the US are infected with Corona....than attended Trump's inauguration...

And I hear there's a new prayer being said at virtual churches and hospitals around the country....

Please Lord, let me live a few months longer to reminisce and remember...and to ensure we can vote this Moron out in November...

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Here you go;

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/ihme-model-revised-again-cutting-coronavirus-death-projection-by-over-35-percent-in-days/

wonder whether Trump etal intentionally chose that high number 

its the model that Fauci is championing. Did he lie?

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

all their death and hospitalization models were wrong. Can’t they be wrong on this too? The country can’t stay closed indefinitely. Although liberals would love it to be until after the election.

Even if the epidemiologists say that this will result in a resurgence of cases?

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Question for the Trump supporters here;

Easy peasy. As always it was the 'deep state department' backed (sometimes fronted - it varies) by something called 'the media' (sometime lamestream/corporate/MSM) and an assortment of 'bad people' like HillaryObamalibsdems who don't love their country.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

What Reziger said isn't true, also patients who are suffering of other illnesses are included in the covid-19 death toll in Italy.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

"Phase two", how they call it in Italy, will be very slow and progressive. It will include the use of massive tracing system by app smartphones like those used in China and South Korea.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

In the U.S., with over 14,000 deaths and 400,000 infections,

14K deaths - when the virus was "contained" and was "just one person from China"....

the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention was considering changing self-isolation guidelines to make it easier for those exposed to someone with the virus to return to work if they have no symptoms.

I hear Trump told the CDC he needs those illegal immigrant hotel maids and golf course groundskeepers back on the job ASAP at his properties...

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Those countries are playing with fire. But when has the human race ever made the right decision the first time?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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